Cheese Shop 2

[Karma12]

Hi Heather,

I learned from my IC many years ago that it takes time to change those long played tapes. Those messages are deep within the subconscious mind. At night I listen to a relaxation music CD that has subliminal positive affirmations on it. These messages go into the subconscious mind and aren't heard so the conscious mind can't sabbatoge them. I also have positive messages posted around my home.

The world can be a very negative place. We can't change our past or the damage done by the hurtful words spoken to us as children. We can learn and grow and try to make better choices. I would like to think that my children are better and healthier adults because I did not repeat the behaviors of my parents.

There are times I catch myself listening to a negative tape from my past. It takes a lot of work and effort to press the stop button and play a positive message instead. I agree with Wonka....like attracts like. You do deserve to be successful and to be happy.

[LoisB]

Whoa. What if the Jedi Master has walked a completely different path than the Jedi? Then, no matter how wise the Master is in his own life, it's not going to be something the Jedi will get because the two have had very, very different experiences.

The Master is going to be frustrated by the Jedi and vice versa.

Honestly, I'm not looking for a Master at this point. In fact, I'm seeing how I need to step away and draw on the interactions in the real world. These boards were a lifeline to me during a very difficult time and I, today, I just wanted to share some insights I felt looking back on the past few weeks/months.

Growth? I don't know. It's slowly feeling safe to be "out there." SLOWLY>

IMHO: Sometimes life is a combat zone. It just is. It's how we react to it that gives us the choice. When you look at the horrors in the world, I'm not sure the victims had much of a choice.

In my world view, I'm not "pretending" there's evil in the world. I believe it.

I lived for a long time with the mindset that I had a choice in every life event...and, I blamed myself for every bad thing that happened. I acted as if I was omnipotent.

And, in the end, I grew to blame and hate myself for every negative thing that happened...even when it wasn't my fault.

MY tendency is to blame MYSELF for everything. So, when I come on here and vent and digest the events of my life...often, it's with the intention of sorting out what is really mine to own and what's not. My tendency is to BLAME ME. I'm fighting 24/7 with negative messages in my head. I think a lot of people can relate to this.

The reality is...life can dish out some really shiddy stuff, but I have a choice in how I react. Still, it doesn't help me to "pretend" it's not shiddy when it is.

Nobody has control over the flat tire. I mean you can do all you can to make sure you don't get the flat...but, put the right piece of debris in the road at the right time and "Blam."

You have control over how you react to the flat...whether you allow it mess up your whole day. Maybe, you let it get to you for 15 minutes, 3 hours or, maybe you ALLOW it to get you rattled for all but the last 15 minutes of the day. Even, then, I think it's important to celebrate the fact that you were able to turn it around at the end.

I'm sure you have good reasons for feeling the way you do about the "Devil" as do I. It works for me. It doesn't make me weak or wrong. Anymore than I would blame an Agnostic or Atheist for believing how they do. In my life experiences, I've seen evil and I've watched people I love with everything in my soul...I've watched them turn away from love and choose to get high. I've seen it eat at their personalities until you couldn't even recognize the person they used to be.

When I was five, I walked in on my mother with the business end of a shotgun in her mouth. She was laying on her bed and set the stage for my father. She was still active in her alcoholism and "thought" this scenario made sense to prove a point. Only, it was I who walked through the door first.

My mother, now sober, can't even go there, can't discuss it, can't express the depth of her shame. I honor her feelings and how hard it must be to live with that. What makes a mother do that? It's not love, even though I know my mother loves me.

I'm happy to help anyone who is wrestling with demons like these as I make my way. And, as I conquer the next step, I will share what I've learned and what I'm still struggling to learn and what works for me.

I'm sorry if it touched a nerve. I respect your life experiences have given you a different viewpoint. And, I respect the hell outta your professional input. This is in arena where I'm really green.

[Wonka]

Heather,

Let's take this example:

When I was five, I walked in on my mother with the business end of a shotgun in her mouth. She was laying on her bed and set the stage for my father. She was still active in her alcoholism and "thought" this scenario made sense to prove a point. Only, it was I who walked through the door first.

My mother, now sober, can't even go there, can't discuss it, can't express the depth of her shame. I honor her feelings and how hard it must be to live with that. What makes a mother do that? It's not love, even though I know my mother loves me.

In reading this, I cannot help but feel compassion for your mother. To be at a point where she felt that ending her own life was the answer to her problems. It must have been a very, very dark place for her and she was in a such deep despair that killing herself was the only option.

You walking in at that moment was divine intervention. Funny how God works in mysterious ways, right?

Let me tell you something here. After my late father passed away, I begun clearing out his personal effects from his clothes in his closet, dresser, his art supplies, family keepsakes, and a ton of memories.

It was during one of those cleaning phase that I came across a letter that he had written to me (never sent, never shown to me) around the time that he and my stepmother were going through a divorce. Mind you, he's the one that had an affair and his own OW. Facing divorce was a very, very low point for my father because he was losing his "family unit" of me, himself, and my stepmother. In that letter, he wrote of how sorry that he had to "kill" himself, how much he loved me and my stepmother.

If he had followed through with his deep despair, I would have been fatherless at the vulnerable age of 12-13. As I read the letter, I spoke to my father as if he was the room with me, "Dear Dad, how awful that you must have felt. How dark you must have felt...that you had no choice but to kill yourself. My heart goes out to you. I am so sorry that you felt this way. I am so glad that you did not follow through with this. This makes me feel closer to you as I got to see the other side of you...you as a man."

I was not angry at all. I was more....like...gosh, how awful this had to be on you.

You see. No one conspired against my father. He made the choice to live to see another day. And then more....

What I am saying here is that you DO have a lot more control over how you live your life than you realize.

Yes, there are bad things that do take place. It is WHERE you put your attention is what you draw back into your life.

For example, you meet some people and see right away that they're not healthy and toxic. You simply step away and give them no attention.

It is the same with self-talk. When one persists in such negative talk, the more it magnifies in your head. Talk about self-fulfilling prophecy. It is like that with the editor and the other folks.

You had it in your head that they were going to fire you. You had it in your head that you were no-good. You had it in your head that you were a "schmuck."

It goes on and on with Smokey.

It goes on with your mother.

Change how you think and your reactions will be different.

This is what I meant by playing the same tape over and over. It's not serving you well at all.

Your mother was not thinking clearly when she put the gun to her mouth. It was not about her lack of "love" for you. She had hit rock bottom and saw no way out of it.

I am mystified as to why this action was the "proof" that your mother did not love you or the kids. In that particular situation, it was not as a "mother", but as a person. When my father wrote that suicide letter, he did not do it from a place as a "Dad", but as "John." Do you see what I am saying here?

In my life experiences, I've seen evil and I've watched people I love with everything in my soul...I've watched them turn away from love and choose to get high. I've seen it eat at their personalities until you couldn't even recognize the person they used to be.

Is that inherently evil? Or were those based on bad choices?

Let's be clear here:

I believe in God. The God I believe in is very, very loving and benevolent. He's pure Love.

It's the stupid Humans who do not so nice things. No one forced them to do so. Their hearts were closed off which is why some of them do some really awful deeds.

From a place of strong self-worth, choices will be based on love. You see...when you love you, then you will start allowing positive and nourishing people into your life. Because it is what you WANT in your life.

Heather, have you thought about seeing a IC to work through some of those issues?

[LoisB]

Wonka!

We are saying the same freaking thing. We just have different views on where the bad stuff originates. I say the Devil...you say self-will.

Go back and re-read what I posted this morning. I'm sorting out the mess with my writing. I came to the same conclusion you did in the post above. I set myself up.

I thought "I don't deserve this" and I made it true.

What I'm trying to point out to folks here who may be struggling with similar issues...just because it gets messy, doesn't mean all is lost. Re-building, remodeling...it's messy business. It may be ugly and messy and feel terrible, but this movement may be meaningful and part of the process to get where you are headed.

I'm digging past my limitations, my past, my insecurities, my fears...I'm gonna keep on digging until I hit gold. I'm learning there is no mistake in success. I used to think success was some sort of miracle. It's not. No one gets to the Olympic podium by saying...Hey! How did this happen?

I missed that lesson in school or wherever. I'm not blaming myself. I just did.

It's not easy, but I'm working on it.

Sometimes it comes off like you think you have all the answers. When, in my opinion we're all in this together...figuring out the path and helping each other through. That's my frustration.

[LoisB]

I thought "I don't deserve this" and I made it true.

Listen to me carefully on this one.

I came to this new job with all sorts of insecurities. I was using all my same devices to get through and force my way through the fear...THEN! BAM! I was hit with one thing after another.

I held my ground, but began to waiver a little here and a little there. My foundation began to rock a bit. I got tired. I got really tired. My car payments fell behind. I couldn't make rent. I was forced to reach out to Smokey for support because my attorney wasn't.

That's where, in my opinion, I allowed the Devil to creep into my thoughts. I was already vulnerable. I was scared of having Ohio recreated in N.Y.

I allowed it to eat away at me. I started to give in. I didn't ask for help. I stepped back into my default which is retreat and hide.

Then, all those doubts became realities. And, I got angry.

For me, I get angry with the devil. That rat basteerd got into my thoughts again, just when I was turning things around. S.O.B. I got angry and it helps me to get angry because then I have something tangible to fight against.

I can't, I just can't, beat myself up any more. It doesn't serve me. I HAVE to separate the behavior from my person or I will die. I have to see that my behavior doesn't make me bad or good, it just is.

A clear separation of good and evil helps me do that.

And, I know my mother loves me. I didn't argue that the horrible day was some indication she didn't love me. It was proof that even someone who loves, adores and worships their kid can make, in a moment of weakness, a terrible decision...In my world view, I see a negative force pushing for that evil to come to fruition. In some houses, it does.

Something stopped her from carrying it through. I'm not fool enough to think I'm that powerful. Something greater than us both intervened. If there's a God, why can't there be a Devil?

What about that scares you?

[Wonka]

Heather,

Something stopped her from carrying it through. I'm not fool enough to think I'm that powerful. Something greater than us both intervened. If there's a God, why can't there be a Devil?

What about that scares you?

I have nothing to fear (well...discounting spiders and snakes ).

To answer your question, may I suggest that you look into this wonderful book:

Angel Answers: What the angels can teach us about the world we live in by Diana Cooper

[LoisB]

In my life experiences, I've seen evil and I've watched people I love with everything in my soul...I've watched them turn away from love and choose to get high. I've seen it eat at their personalities until you couldn't even recognize the person they used to be.

Wonka, it has to be evil. Why? Because, otherwise, it was ME. I wasn't enough. I can't go there anymore. I refuse to go there.

I didn't deserve the people I love to leave anymore than someone deserves a loved one to die in an accident.

And, to watch my children suffer? Have scars that will remain with them forever?

It's human nature to try to understand WHY? This is my way. It helps me from beating myself up anymore. I've been there, done that. Enough. I have the t-shirt.

I will check out the book.

IF you check out the Don't Be Afraid of the Gift God Gives sermons. Also, take a listen to Don't Let the Devil Ride by Neil Robeson :-)

[Lifes Twists]

Lois and Wonka, your conversation is interesting to follow as you are both attempting to say the same thing. The difference is Wonka is doing it in shades of grey while Lois is black and white. I think Lois is choosing black and white because it is easier to see a clear delineation between the too. Having this sharp contrast will help her to drop that which is self destructive and chase the constructive parts in her life. Some people are totally against having some things black and white. I feel sometimes it is good to not have the lines blurred. Right is right and wrong is wrong.

[Matt165]

Heather,
I wish I had more time to post but I must get my D15 to school and myself to work. I'll make time tonight to get into depth. But for right now I want to say that I do understand what you are saying...just as I understand what Wonka is as well. I, like you, believe that the Devil is just as "real" as God. Like all things there is always a counter-balence, a "ying and yang" if you will. It helps to show how man has two sides, one inherently good and the other evil. It is also true that the greatest gift that God gave us is free will, as well as the biggest curse. We get to choose which path we take and in the end we get the life that is the sum total of those choices.

I think that this fact is exactly what our WAS's have to come to grips with. That no matter how much we try and place blame on others for what our lives have become, in the end it is our own choices that are the cause.

I have to go but I really think you are brave for facing this head on!

[LoisB]

New Thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2543262&#Post2543262