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Originally Posted By: 4mendmj
I feel shame when I read the above article Ontheup as I am the person that ratted out W to her parents. And no matter where we look, we can find an article that says both sides. I told W's parents before I even knew about this place. But that link you provided about the cycle of an affair said that the family's pressure has something there but the spouse has none. The family wouldn't know unless someone told them. IDK.

I read your story every day. For inspiration for me, education, and I want to tell you, keep it up sir. Your work on you is fantastic and reminds me to go swimming again tomorrow morning smile


Hey 4

You did what you thought was best at the time. Ive done loads of stuff i look back on and wish i hadnt. everyone does. There is a lot of information some of it very conflicting so yes its hard to know what to do for the best partly why i have gone to see a marriage councilor. Im sticking to what im doing which is detaching completly from the situation. My wife and AP are in a hole. A very deep one. Dont think i need to be in that hole bashing her over the head with a shame stick. Im sure she already feels shame and guilt even though she doesnt show it.
Its just my story. Im no expert in what to do and have no magic wand but it helps me by posting and reading others. Glad it helps you. Yes definatley get out swimming.


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 374
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: MrBond
"Has too much damage been done by both of us to each other in that time period? I don't know, maybe"

That's up to you. There can never be so much damage that things can't be healed.


Forgiveness is a learned skill. I never saw it growing up and I literally did not know HOW to do it, once I decided I wanted to. And forgiving her does not necessarily require you to reconcile, but to let go of the pain you are in now.

But it is something you must do, for yourself...when you grasp what that means, when you really get that holding onto your pain is not in your interest (or anyone's, and certainly not in your d's), then you'll know you have made more progress.

And if you do reconcile, it'll be a task for both of you. Among other things, she'll have to regain your trust AND you will have to regain hers.

Because why should she return to a marriage she wanted out of, unless there is is some promise of her needs being better met? And you had an "indiscretion" (great euphemism, btw) as well. While you don't seem to think they are similar, to her I am sure they are very similar. Regardless, I'm sure you'd agree that those things cannot happen again either.

You'll have to avoid ever throwing it in her face or holding it over her head, and she'll have to own some tough things to own.

In short, you'll have to do what the vows suggest, and go

"From this day forward", which means letting go of the past. I think those words were brilliantly inserted into my vows and they mean A LOT.

Give yourself a lot of time. You have it at the moment.

((( )))


Hey 25, Mr Bond.

Very true words again. Looking at some of the most terrible crimes commited you often hear of people showing forgiveness.
I dont hold hate in my heart, I cant as im 50% responsible for the failure of our marriage. Some days i feel a great sense of forgiveness, some days i feel angry. Its still too soon to fully understand how i feel. She is still constantly tempreture checking at the moment so its hard for me to detach.
I to never saw foregiveness growing up. My parents divorced and hated each other. My mum still holds that hate for what my dad did regarding him having an affair. Only now do i see how wrong that is.

Youve got me 25, i am down playing my own infideilty. People i have told about what is going on know full well what i have done. Im ashamed and feel guilty about what i have done. The truth is that i am stuggling to reconcile what ive done with what my wife is still doing. i suppose this is where me taking responsabilty for my own actions comes in.
I dont bring up anything about her continuing her affair. I dont need to. Everyone who has ever been in an affair knows it is wrong. That doesnt stop people doing it though. We are only human after all.
Time will tell whether we can reconcile our marriage. I still dont know how i feel. For us to do so she would have to give an awful lot up. For one there would be NC with other man which means one or both woud have to leave the business. This may mean that it would need to be sold. At the moment she isnt prepared to do that.

as you've said before, i have a gift, gift of time, i'm going to use it wisely to work on me.

Thanks for all your help guys. It is very much appreciated


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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Originally Posted By: Ontheup
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
[quote=MrBond]"Has too much damage been done by both of us to each other in that time period? I don't know, maybe"

That's up to you. There can never be so much damage that things can't be healed.


Forgiveness is a learned skill. I never saw it growing up
Hey 25, Mr Bond.

Very true words again. Looking at some of the most terrible crimes commited you often hear of people showing forgiveness.
I dont hold hate in my heart, I cant as im 50% responsible for the failure of our marriage. Some days i feel a great sense of forgiveness, some days i feel angry. Its still too soon to fully understand how i feel. She is still constantly temperature checking at the moment so its hard for me to detach.


In a way, since it indicates some concern on her end (as opposed to indifference), then maybe you can detach BECAUSE you know there's some interest....

Make sense? If she looks your way, you want to use those moments or interactions as opportunities for her to see the new improved YOU. Make the most of them.



I to never saw foregiveness growing up. My parents divorced and hated each other. My mum still holds that hate for what my dad did regarding him having an affair. Only now do i see how wrong that is.


Sad, but a useful ^^^^ lesson. I'll have to share another one I learned growing up, later. But for now, the phrase that might have changed your mom's life is this one:

"Holding onto anger, to punish someone else,

is like lighting yourself on fire.....................to get smoke in their eyes."



Youve got me 25, i am down playing my own infideilty. People i have told about what is going on know full well what i have done. Im ashamed and feel guilty about what i have done. The truth is that i am struggling to reconcile what ive done with what my wife is still doing. i suppose this is where me taking responsabilty for my own actions comes in.

IF you know in your heart that the "incidents" you had with her bff, are not threats to the marriage, (meaning, it did not mean much to you then or now), then you'll have to accept that she may come to feel the same way about OM, down the road.

Obviously he means something to her now, and presumably more than your OW meant to you, but that is not relevant.

I'm saying if you know your past A isn't going to repeat itself, then why couldn't you imagine your w feeling the same way?

BTW, why'd you choose her bff to flirt with, if you know? It's quite a sabotage, if you know what I mean. I'm kind of wondering if it was a big hostile act on your part or clueless or what. Not trying to bash you too hard, but dang, that's a low blow. Got any Ideas?



I dont bring up anything about her continuing her affair. I dont need to.


Well, why would you?

IF and When SHE brings up a recon, then maybe that would be the time. But while she's in the midst of ardor and confusion and what she thinks might be love, and still stinging from your betrayals,

say nothing of it.


Everyone who has ever been in an affair knows it is wrong. That doesnt stop people doing it though. We are only human after all.
Time will tell whether we can reconcile our marriage. I still dont know how i feel. For us to do so she would have to give an awful lot up.


As I think I said, almost every woman I've known who had an affair, felt justified at the time.

But Instead of coming up with obstacles to even wanting a reconciliation now, long before they are "Due", don't bother. That slows your own work and gives you reasons for not trying to be the best h you can be. You're shutting yourself down before you need to IF you ever do need to.


(BTW how are you going to "give up" HER BFF? How are you going to match any type of behavior change - that might be Fairly applied? Be mindful of the double standards...


Finally, instead of seeing how SHE would have to "give an awful lot up", why not plan on offering/giving HER - more - of YOU? Be the better catch.



For one there would be NC with other man which means one or both woud have to leave the business. This may mean that it would need to be sold. At the moment she isn't prepared to do that.



Yes that is a lot. IT's too much to think of or do, at the moment. But you don't need to plan that far in advance.

When it becomes self evident that you are indeed a man only a fool would leave, the choice will not be as hard for her, as losing you forever
.


as you've said before, i have a gift, gift of time, i'm going to use it wisely to work on me.

Thanks for all your help guys. It is very much appreciated


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 374
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BFF?

my wife doesnt personally know nor has ever met the other woman. I have never seen not contacted the other woman since.

This other women is from where i used to live growing up so my wife contacted a mutual friend who still lives there to find out who she is.

Think we got lost in translation as far as it being my wifes friend. this is not the case


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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For the record, exposure -- properly taught (and there is a TON of both research and application of it out there, if one wants to look) is NOT about "shaming" whatsoever. The concept behind exposure is to remove the shroud of secrecy and intrigue that fuels affairs, and to enlist the support of those pro-marriage people whom are close to the cheater in an effort to apply loving pressure to end the affair. Period.

I wasn't going to chime in here, but seeing what is generally considered a very valid infidelity-fighting tool so grossly mischaracterized changed my mind.

That being side, it is NOT taught by DB/DR, and not advocated here, and many of the people who are asking about it (in my opinion) are nowhere NEAR ready to handle it properly, should they decide to do it.

I'd advise to draw the line at "OK, so I won't proactively exposure, but I'm no longer going to lie to cover up his/her affair, either" . . . and leave it at that.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Hey Starsky

Thats where Im at. I wont be exposing to all her family and friends. I understand there would be a big light shone on it which would remove the secrecy, a bi product of that would be having to deal with the shame.
If i did expose at the moment it woud be for the wrong reasons. e.g. revenge
She is a grown intelligent woman this is her mess, her problem and she needs to find a way out herself.


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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[quote=Starsky309]For the record, exposure -- properly taught (and there is a TON of both research and application of it out there, if one wants to look) is NOT about "shaming" whatsoever. The concept behind exposure is to remove the shroud of secrecy and intrigue that fuels affairs, and to enlist the support of those pro-marriage people whom are close to the cheater in an effort to apply loving pressure to end the affair. Period.

We seem to do a lot of "point, counter point" on this topic & I guess some could be confused. Starsky, your description above^^, is well worded. But it's not really exposure you are discussing, imo, so much as "no more lying" for the WAS.

I've consistently and clearly supported that position. No LBS should feel compelled to cover for - or lie for their cheating spouse. (That's not exposure in my book, and it's not what MWD refers to or means when she uses the term.)

By exposure I mean telling others that your spouse is having an affair.

Most people who want to do that, imo, are doing so for the wrong reasons (i.e. to punish, to shame, to control, to "get the WAS to see/do/act" differently, etc). I gave an actual example of that, in my post, on this very thread.

But the LBSers who learn of an affair are usually in such a state of emotional pain, they are not able to objectively view their situation, or even their motivation. Your description above would be an option if they were objective AND if they were being asked to cover for their wayward spouse. Your comments would be totally appropriate.

RE true exposure as opposed to simply not enabling, let me say this.

As a world class rationalizer myself, I'd really PAUSE... if/when someone suggests that exposing would "benefit the situation." B/C I know I could come up with a reason for acting on my anger, with the idea of "getting justice", or "just being honest", when in fact most of my motivation would be to "wake" up (control/hurt/shame) the WAS even if I didn't admit it to myself. Let's face it, being betrayed is humiliating. And the first chance we get to do the same to them, in a smaller way (via telling), can be very appealing and darn easy to justify.

I suspect that's part of why MWD strongly urges us NOT to act on this ^^desire, b/c simply put, we're too mad to think straight.

Since this discussion is now really about semantics, hopefully we can move along.


-


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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Originally Posted By: Ontheup
BFF?

my wife doesnt personally know nor has ever met the other woman. I have never seen not contacted the other woman since.

This other women is from where i used to live growing up so my wife contacted a mutual friend who still lives there to find out who she is.

Think we got lost in translation as far as it being my wifes friend. this is not the case



Fair enough but yet, you said this:


Youve got me 25, i am down playing my own infideilty. People i have told about what is going on know full well what i have done. Im ashamed and feel guilty about what i have done. The truth is that i am struggling to reconcile what ive done with what my wife is still doing. i suppose this is where me taking responsabilty for my own actions comes in.



Did your wife tell others about it and if so, how'd you feel then? Why'd you tell others?

BTW, I don't think it's bad that you did, as long as it didn't further embarrass your wife. But what do you mean about reconciling what you did, with what she is?

Do you feel like it has to be "even", at some subconscious level? B/C if you do, I'd have to wonder if your w felt the same thing. Like she has a "free pass" on an affair b/c of yours.

Then again, does it matter? It only matters in the sense that it MIGHT mean she'll learn a lesson faster. Time will tell.

So, back to your basics. What are the 180's you are striving to do?

And GAL? We hammer it here b/c it works. Seriously. Let's get back to You...


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

We seem to do a lot of "point, counter point" on this topic & I guess some could be confused. Starsky, your description above^^, is well worded. But it's not really exposure you are discussing, imo, so much as "no more lying" for the WAS.

I've consistently and clearly supported that position. No LBS should feel compelled to cover for - or lie for their cheating spouse. (That's not exposure in my book, and it's not what MWD refers to or means when she uses the term.)

By exposure I mean telling others that your spouse is having an affair.


-


That's how I'm using the term as well. I try not to make a distinction between lies of commission and lies of omission, and I certainly base my definition on the widely accepted use of the word in infidelity research.

But I don't advocate it; I just didn't want to see it misrepresented because it's a serious method well within the mainstream, that's all.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: Ontheup
BFF?

my wife doesnt personally know nor has ever met the other woman. I have never seen not contacted the other woman since.

This other women is from where i used to live growing up so my wife contacted a mutual friend who still lives there to find out who she is.

Think we got lost in translation as far as it being my wifes friend. this is not the case



Fair enough but yet, you said this:


Youve got me 25, i am down playing my own infideilty. People i have told about what is going on know full well what i have done. Im ashamed and feel guilty about what i have done. The truth is that i am struggling to reconcile what ive done with what my wife is still doing. i suppose this is where me taking responsabilty for my own actions comes in.



Did your wife tell others about it and if so, how'd you feel then? Why'd you tell others?

BTW, I don't think it's bad that you did, as long as it didn't further embarrass your wife. But what do you mean about reconciling what you did, with what she is?

Do you feel like it has to be "even", at some subconscious level? B/C if you do, I'd have to wonder if your w felt the same thing. Like she has a "free pass" on an affair b/c of yours.

Then again, does it matter? It only matters in the sense that it MIGHT mean she'll learn a lesson faster. Time will tell.

So, back to your basics. What are the 180's you are striving to do?

And GAL? We hammer it here b/c it works. Seriously. Let's get back to You...


Hey 25

I don't know if my wife told anyone else about my infidelity. I do know she asked our mutual friend about this woman. She said it was in a way as not to cause any suspicion. who knows.
As far as me telling people, I have told my parents and colleagues at work who know my sitch so they know the whole story.
Call it double standards if you like. I find it hard though to compare a one night to wife having an affair where she is and has been lying to everyone for a very long time.

180's ok well im pushing on with moving out. I have emailed wife this morning asking for her account details as I need to change some direct debits. Im buying a car in next day or 2. I have never owned my own car. Always business or shared. I've completely switched off to doing all the housework. Just doing the bare minimum. House is a wreck.
Standing on my own 2 feet. I have been down trodden for a long time. Im not taking any more of it. This is the new confident me where I make decisions rather than relying on my wife to make them for me. I already know she has commented about the fact that im actually following through with the move.


Far as GAL, it difficult at the minute with work and trying to organise my move but ice skating tomorrow with D8, horse riding Saturday morning with D8. Just completed some brilliant homework with d8. Saturday night im out with friends at school reunion.
When I leave I will be looking to get back to the gym, pick up my art which I haven't done for 20 years, get out on bike more, continue to spend quality time with d8 and night out with friends once a month.


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

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