I have so many friends who were in this dynamic, and while for some of them it took the divorce to step up, some of them had their aha moment while they were going through it. What I find sadder is that there are intact married families who accept this and just keep moving on autopilot. I have some friends with sad stories.
Consider this... your pleas might have fallen on deaf ears because he used a P/A approach to punish you? He knew full well what you wanted because you said it, and often. Please know I shared this dynamic as well - not with the kids, but in other areas of our married life. I can't tell you how many date nights got the kibbosh when something at work popped up and he "couldn't say no". I'd get pissy and he'd retaliate by ignoring me. It was his way of dealing with my control issues with the only tools he had in his tool box at the time. The deeper into this dynamic we went, the more our marriage spiraled down the toilet. By the time he moved out, we felt nothing but resentment toward each other. It was sad. What was even sadder is that our friends and family watched it happen and tried to intervene to help. It really couldn't gain much traction because our families live out of state.
The only thing I can say is that, at the very least, your H realizes what he needs to do to have a R with his kids. He's prioritized that much, and if you have to take the bullet, my guess is you'd rather take that bullet for any and all of your kids. They don't have another dad.
After I got over the sulks of this, I realized that his actions said everything I needed to know: he didn't value me as his wife. There are some good books about passive aggressiveness out there, which are good reads. They might give you more insight on better communication and parenting for the long haul. But you've done a good job at cleaning up your side of the street. Know that the past isn't an indicator of your future - especially when you continue to do the self work to get where you want to be.
What you focus on expands. So don't look at the ugly. Look at the good. You'll get that back tenfold.
Hugs, friends.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
The only thing I can say is that, at the very least, your H realizes what he needs to do to have a R with his kids. He's prioritized that much, and if you have to take the bullet, my guess is you'd rather take that bullet for any and all of your kids. They don't have another dad.
After I got over the sulks of this, I realized that his actions said everything I needed to know: he didn't value me as his wife.
Bets, this part is right on the money. I'm happy my kids have a new-improved dad, and realize that he could have put me first all these years but he chose not to. So be it.
I really never nagged him about his schedule, I'm more of a rug sweeper. I might ask once or twice and then when I don't get the response I'm looking for, I don't ask again. I just seethe silently. All good information for the future.
I had lunch with a friend yesterday, we talked about a lot of things, and she asked me if I was ready to date. I'm still turning that one over in my brain, I really want to, I don't know if I should, and nobody is knocking on the door anyway. I'm watching Maybell very closely.
What you focus on expands. So don't look at the ugly. Look at the good. You'll get that back tenfold.
Boy did I need to hear that. Thanks Bets.
I would like to chime in on the whole "working late, always busy" issue. Is it possible these "workaholics" justified their actions by saying they were doing it for their family? I know that is what I did. I worked a lot of hours thinking my W would always be there and that she would be glad that I was sacraficing for the good of the family. Instead, she felt taken for granted, abandoned and that she was not a priority.
M42 W40 T17 M15 S13 S11 BD 7-14 A discovered 7-14 WAW moved out 10-3-14 D final 2-23-15
RPP, it scares me slightly how much you're paying attention to me.
I want to remind you -- after my conversation with STBX when I found out how far back his cheating goes (and how casually he approached it), I came to a moment of ABSOLUTELY CRYSTAL CLEAR clarity. And I really, really do want to be with a person who treats me as I'm important (and church fella has expressed interest in ME and MY INTERESTS) and I realize that in spite of how hard I tried, I haven't actually been in a marriage in many years. Just pulled around like luggage. So things feel very different for me than they will for you.
If STBX came back today and said that he wanted to work on the M, I'd say no. Because FIRST he'd have to be a great dad. THEN he'd have to be interested in me in a way that he never, ever has been. And then we'd have to find some common interests (which would require him to be interested in something I like, inconceivable), and we'd have to have fun together. Those things are NOT going to happen. Maybe the dad thing will, but the rest of it, for sure, will not.
I'm not ready to be in a serious relationship, but I love people and church fella looks interesting enough to get to know regardless of whether it ever becomes "dating" -- whatever that is.
Hugs to you, lady, I feel like we'd be good friends if we ever met IRL.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
rpp--You know that "silently seething" is a form of passive aggressiveness, right?
bdub--I think men have a tough time with the slippery slope of workaholism/avoidance. From the get go, you guys get immersed in "must take care of your families by working hard and earning money". I get that... really do. And there are good role models out there, people who are in the middle somewhere, and people who are horrible role models. (Mothers too.) I think our cultural upbringings have something to do with it as well.
Workaholism is no different than any other "-holism". (A*holism? ) Addiction to anything isn't good for us. Balance is good for us. Yet, we know people who just can't seem to shake this type of addiction. They think they aren't hurting anyone. My sister is a classic workaholic. She has an on and an off button. No speeds in the middle. She's either ON or OFF. It's created problems with her marriage, though their marriage is not in trouble. My BIL keeps at it, and my parents and I periodically have to have a reality check with her. I think my brother's death helped a little bit, but time will tell.
I also understand the ebb/tide of jobs that have demands that sometimes you can't mitigate. Like the doctors' spouses, who are on call frequently. Or military spouses, who get used to long term deployments. Or CPA spouses, who figure out they can't ever vacation from January to April 15th and leave weekends alone too. You get the drift. My XH is a rocket scientist. No, really. The 18 months after launch, he travels 10 days/month. Then he can go a couple years with light travel. I just accept that. I wasn't so great at that before. That's the part of me I hated and changed.
But there will *always* be people who hide behind work to avoid what they know they should be doing to create balance in their home and professional lives. I find this uber true for people having marital problems for any length of time. I have a really good friend who has basically hated his wife for 18 years now. (She's not a very nice person, and I speak this personally--control freak, chore-aholic, moving addict, not a nurturing mother.) He's got some sort of moral compass that he uses to tell himself "after the kids leave". Ironically, his youngest graduates in June, so we'll see what he does. His job is busy, don't get me wrong. But I've known him long enough to say that if I lived in the same town as he does, if I called him on a Wednesday night to go to an Irish pub, he'd leave work early. Happily. And he'd buy rounds all night. You get the drift.
It's up to us to be authentic in our own relationships. Everyone else can f*ck off.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I often wonder if the extra work causes the marital issues, or the other way around. Maybe a combination of both.
That moment of clarity that Maybell speaks of hit me too. I did not trust that feeling for several weeks and I actually tried to talk myself into not giving up. Several times.
M42 W40 T17 M15 S13 S11 BD 7-14 A discovered 7-14 WAW moved out 10-3-14 D final 2-23-15
RPP, it scares me slightly how much you're paying attention to me.
Maybell, I have to watch reasonable people on this board, it's all I have to go by. The only two couples I have been friends with while they went through the D process are both disasters in a huge way. I need a better example. And here you are! My virtual friend
H came over for his birthday dinner tonight. He and D12 just left. It was nice. It was interesting. I'll fill in more tomorrow.
Here's the rest of the birthday dinner story. Last night was H's birthday dinner. His choice to grill steaks at the house. D16's bf was there and it was a nice evening. After dinner, at a moment the kids weren't around, H said thank you, gave me a hug, and his hands wandered and lingered on my backside a while. Ahhhhh.....so we are back to that?
Sometimes I listen to an advice radio program in the car. Yesterday the advice-giver used the term "make it real" referring to allowing people to reap the consequences of their own choices and us not bailing them out. Maybe this is the week to make it a little more real.
I have chosen to take the path of "make it real". I will admit that when I first decided to stop helping WAW it was so that I could watch her fall flat on her face. Horrible, I know. The benefit I got was that her problems were no longer my problems. I needed that so I could focus more on me, detach, and work on my side of the fence. Now when I hear about the leaky faucet, the leaky checkbook, and the ill mannered boys I validate her feelings and think to myself that I am very lucky to have non of those issues.
M42 W40 T17 M15 S13 S11 BD 7-14 A discovered 7-14 WAW moved out 10-3-14 D final 2-23-15
All good information for the future.
) Addiction to anything isn't good for us. Balance is good for us. Yet, we know people who just can't seem to shake this type of addiction. They think they aren't hurting anyone. My sister is a classic workaholic. She has an on and an off button. No speeds in the middle. She's either ON or OFF. It's created problems with her marriage, though their marriage is not in trouble. My BIL keeps at it, and my parents and I periodically have to have a reality check with her. I think my brother's death helped a little bit, but time will tell.