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Matt, your poor girls, how sad. I can relate on many levels when I went through this with the father of my kids, years ago. I'm so sorry you have yet another thing on your plate that needs your attention. I imagine you are feeling stretched pretty thin.

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I asked her about moving in with me but the problem there is I live too far from her friends and school. She says that it doesn't bother her to live with her mother because she hardly ever has to see her anyway.


The thing about teens, from my experience, they frequently say things like, "It doesn't bother me" as a code, if you will....for "It bothers me but since it hurts and I feel bad and powerless, I'll just not deal with it and instead try to stop caring and shut down."

She may very well think this is what she wants, not seeing her mom, relying only on her friends....but, Matt....is that what she NEEDS? A daily reminder of how selfish her own mother is behaving? A daily dose of neglect and being treated with little regard from the one who should nurture her the most? Man...there is no way that doesn't wound her.

Her mother is clearly not plugged-in. I don't care how old any daughter is, whether child or adult...that chit hurts. Deep. The message is that "I'm less important than everything else Mom wants to focus on." I mean, ouch, right?

You can't change her mom. You CAN change things so it isn't in her face, day in and day out. Fill that time with things that let her know she matters. Be the parent she needs. Be there. Fight for her.

And your D15 seeking guidance from friends can be good...but if those friends are into this self-mutilation stuff, are they really the friends she should continue to to be hanging around? Especially in her vulnerable, wounded condition...how do you suppose that will influence her? My thoughts are oh, he!! no. I would run far and fast from that.

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When my new job starts she will have about an hour and half until I pick her up where she'll be at her mom's. This will give her time to see her friends (but not so much where she can get into a lot of trouble.

^^^^^^ Wanna bet.......??? I am fluent in "denial." That's not serving you well, Matt. What does your gut really tell you?

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Nothing W hates more that being told that she should do something she doesn't want to.

^^^^That has no real impact on what you do or don't do.

Seriously, stop caring about that, Matt. Put your energy on doing whatever needs to be done for you and the girls. If w gets mad...so what? She's mad about everything. Letting that influence you or even stop to think and hesitate for a second about your plan is keeping you from thinking clearly about your own health and your kids' well-being. Hers just doesn't matter, my friend. It doesn't.

I hear the limitations and obstacles you are facing. And it sounds like things are about to improve for you with the new job. How wonderful that things are taking a turn for the better in that area.

The rest? Take this sitch, Matt, and own it. Do whatever it takes, regardless of the social preferences of your D. She needs someone to care enough to make her well-being the priority. That's the thing....you clearly DO care enough. Now ACT.

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I talked to D15 about going to a counselor and she really was against it. At this point, I don't think forcing her to go would help but I do need to be watchful.

Probably true. Forcing her wouldn't necessarily help. However, perhaps a conversation offering D15 perspective....if she engages in self mutilation, or finds herself caving in to peer pressure with things troubled teens do (drinking, alcohol, etc) she could easily find herself in a position of rehab where what she wants is no longer an option. No phones, no friends, daily group therapy...not to mention labels from her classmates and school staff that she will have to deal with for years to come. She can't see the potential damage right now. Her brain isn't wired that way yet. So YOURS has to be.

Even if exploring a school closer to you may be the best option...if she's headed down a bad path? It could be the lesser of the evils. Change isn't comfortable. Sometimes it's necessary.

And for once and for all...do what needs to be done REGARDLESS of how mad w gets. Her moods at this point shouldn't even be a blip on your radar.

You can do this. I've seen what you're made of. You got this, Matt.

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Hi Heather,
I did check her arms and didn't see any marks. I think that the long sleeves is just the style that she is into. Believe me, I'm not going to be the kind of parent that just blindly puts my head in the sand. For now I'm going to look for options for counseling in the area. Money isn't just tight, it's non-existint until I start working next week. I need to talk to W and get a card for D15's insurance. I really do need to have one in case she needs to see a dr when she is with me. This way I can also see if D19 is still on her insurance as well. Knowing how W's attitude has been lately, she may not have put D19 on just because she doesn't like that D19 won't do what she wants her to. I can see her doing something like that out of spite in her present state of mind.

I have so much to do to get ready for my new job and I really need to be doing that. This added drama is just so ridiculous on W's part. I'm starting to get a bit over-whelmed and that isn't good at all. I need a clear head so I can make a good first impression at my new job. I'm supposed to come in this week and get started on some courses specific to the company I'm going to work for that I need to finish up before I can start selling. I have to get finger-printed, get copies of documents made, get my stuff from my old office, fill out forms to get my license, do laundry......too much without adding the drama with my D's! I swear W is like a teenager that just doesn't care about anything but herself and just leaves a path of destruction. Going to be a busy week......

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Hi shining,
At this point I think my best option is moving from where I'm at now. I see how my D15 is when she is with her friends as I have been the parent that has always taken her to friends, parties, events. I am the parent that, like this weekend, goes to the movies where they serve food (actually very cool set up) and drinks so a parent has to be there that goes with. D15 is actually a leader in this kind of group. She gravitates away from the kids that are trouble and towards the more together ones. The problems for her started when her mother took her away from all her friends and into an environment that was totally alien to her. She was, for the first time in her life, surrounded by other kids that she didn't know. All her life she had gone to school with the same small group. They all knew each other so well they were more like siblings than friends. Suddenly she is in this huge school around people she didn't know, her parents were D'ing, she was forced to live half the time in a place that she didn't know. Add to that that her mother is acting like a 14 year old and her sister moved away and she was lost. The fact that she has done as well as she has considering all she has had to go through in such a short time is amazing.

Unless D15 actually tells the court that she wants to live with me full time I have no chance of getting full custody. I tried that and was told that unless I can prove that her mother is smoking crack WITH her, I have zero chance of getting custody. In fact I'm very lucky that I have 50/50 in this state. Simply showing the court that W leaves her alone and doesn't seem to care isn't nearly enough for me to win. I have learned that D court has nothing to do with what is best for the kids. In this state at least it is skewed toward the mother getting custody. Even if I could show that D15 was cutting because of the way her mother is behaving, it wouldn't matter. The best I can expect is 50/50...period. In the state of mind W is in, she will never admit that she is anything but a great parent. In her mind she probably actually believes she is, she is that far gone. The last thing she will ever do is admit weakness. This whole thing is about her being " strong" and empowering herself and what she wants and thinks. To her, having a father that wanted nothing to do with her, moved 1000 miles away and only saw her once a year, the fact that she hasn't moved away and is actually there is a big deal. She has stated that what she is doing isn't close to as bad as what her father did because "I haven't abandoned them". The thing is, just because you are there physically doesn't mean you haven't abandoned them.

This leaves D15 in a bad place. I could spend a lot of time and money and in the end actually lose the amount of time I get with her and she with me. If I push for more custody and lose, W could very well fight me for my getting less than 50/50 and could very well win the way the courts are around here.

I'm starting to see that for me to be able to really be there for my D, I will need to sell my home and move closer to her school. W moving so far away really was a very selfish thing for her to do. All she really cared about was being closer to her friends. She told herself that the school there was better than the school around me which just isn't true but served as an excuse for moving so far away. This sort of thing is how she is now. She minimizes the bad effects in her own mind by inventing bogus "reasons" other than the real reason. Thing is she isn't fooling anyone, only herself. So, I have to make the sacrifices. D19 doesn't want me to sell our home because she has a place here that she really wants to return to when she has a car to get to work and school. If I move closer to D15 it's 30 miles farther from where D19 is going to college which makes it close to 60 miles each way...getting too far to make sense to live there. Another thing W didn't care about when she decided to move so far away.

The thing is, you are right, it is up to me to be there for D15, to fill the void left by her mother. At the same time, in 3 years D15 will be done with school and off to college. She may well want to go to the school her sister is planing on going to this year (closest community college) and if I move down there, she would then have the 60 mile drive. Nothing is easy, nothing is cut and dry the 'best" way to go. All this is weighing on me but not W. W just does whatever she wants without a single thought to what is best for not just her but the people who count on her, namely her kids who have had to try and deal the best they can not only with her choices but her inability to be a parent.

It's just so hard to know what is best. There are so many things to take into account including the fact that I now will be working far from where D15 goes to school. I had been passing her school on my way to work and was flexible with the time I had to be in and leave. I don't have that flexibility now. This is what I'm going through. Add the job sitch, the IRS sitch, the being broke sitch and my life is just so complicated, so hard to see what is the "right" way to go. Do I sell the house and move closer to D15 even though that will make it almost impossible for D19 to move back with me which is what she wants and if she ends up breaking up with her boyfriend may NEED to do? Do I stay here and leave D15 alone half the time the way things are with her mom and the obvious problems she is having coping with that sitch? What about what is best for ME and my life going ahead? It would be nice not to have a long drive to work every day. The fact of the matter is W has a responsibility to her kids no matter what her state of mind. She sure isn't worrying about any of this and just does whatever she wants without regard to what is best for the girls. It's hard enough being a single parent without having to worry that D15 is going to be gone half the time with little supervision and no positive parenting.

I'm overwhelmed by all this at the moment. With all that is going on with my job I have to concentrate on that for now and get that area of my life in order so I have choices going into the future.

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Sometimes, when faced with situations like this, you need to make short-term choices to get you going in the right direction. Just because you move once, doesn't mean you can't sometime again. And I'm sure if you moved, older daughter would figure it out for her little sister's well being. And you can always, in a year or two help the older one out.

But what's going to kill you is the lack of a decision.

Your ex is bat-chit crazy, Matt.

I'm guessing your oldest could go to the doc and tell them that she lost her card and have them look it up. Same for medications. She could even likely use yours if you have it (same policy right?)

Youngest likely needs more help. Even if that means getting her away from her current friends although that's a tough stretch. Might be easier to move a little closer when you're able.

Don't go nuts Matt. See it for what it is. There are things you can do right now and things you can't. Separate them, focus on the job, which enables you to be self-sufficient etc. The IRS will get taken care of one way or another. The daughters will need your time now.

And you need a break.
Find a way to get one.

AJ


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Matt,
If you can get D15 medical insurance card then you should have the info needed for D19. The numbers on the card will probably be the same with the only difference being the name on the card. So try hard to get the card and then give D19 the different numbers on the card and tell her to try them. I did not know this until one daughter got hurt and wife got mad and pointed it out to me when she was busy on a date.


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Matt,

I'm sorry if I came off harsh with my post.

I know you are under a lot of pressure. I've been there, sorta still there, and it stinks.

Sending you hugs,

Heather


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Matt,
I'm very sorry about the situation w/both of your daughters. Your wife is clearly not operating on all cylinders and using the insurance card as a way to get your oldest daughter to move back in and it's called control and manipulation. Isn't your w's father that way? This may be her way of acting out since she had no control as a young lady, but it's still no excuse not to help your child out. Suggest to your D19 that she find a CVS that has the "mini" clinic in the store. At least she can go there and the nurse can check her out and offer some suggestions as to what will help her. What about on campus health units?

About D15, don't just look for signs of cutting on the arms. They can cut elsewhere as well. It's a cry for help. It's a way to help w/their emotions because the parents don't hear them, they are depressed and think that they have no way to cope with the depression, and the stress and anxiety of their environment. It's a way to have some control over their emotions. Many of them will say that music helps soothe their emotional pain. I would have more talks w/her about what she's feeling and ask if there's anything that you can do to help her through this tough time. From what I've read, once they begin cutting, it's a very difficult thing to stop, i.e., it becomes addictive and yes, the scars are awful.

Maybe you need to go out on the net and see if there are any support groups for parents dealing w/family members that are cutting. Sometimes you can find some info that way.

I'm keeping you and your daughters in my thoughts and prayers.

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Hey Matt! It's been awhile, my friend.

I guess you have had a lot going on, and my heart goes out to you. I know how this thing can take a toll, and sometimes, it seems like you just can't catch a break.

The good news is, you are starting a new job! I know that it comes with lots of changes and decisions, which can take away from the excitement in a way. I get it, its like, yeah, this is good, but now I've gotta ......??????????????

Right? Lots of things to figure out, while in the meantime, "stuff" just keeps raining down.

Hey! You are taking it like a champ. As long as you keep going- one foot in front of the other- you will come out the other side. I'm telling you, Matt. Just keep going.

I can totally relate with the stress of d15. I had some very troubling things with s17 the past few months. We always had an amazing r. I trusted him more than most people on earth! I took his word, oh, boy, did I ever. When things changed with him- he used that. I made some mistakes, and I'd hate to see you do the same. And, he was good. Very convincing. Now, we still had a good r. We were still close, but we went through it. Just be careful, and you must realize that friends have much more impact on them than even they will believe. And they will not lead on that their friends make poor choices. Some of these friends are very under the radar. You know, the Eddie Haskell types.
I remember when my parents got a divorce. I thought I was fine. I was in such denial that it affected me. I thought my anger was associated with the fact that i was just a bad@ss.

Sometimes you have to make the tough choices. Even when they convince you other wise... You are her rock, Matt.

Your wife... eh... let her figure it out. I know the frustration.. but don't waste your energy on that which you can't control (says crazy person, me).

Do you think it is possible to rent your house out? Maybe get a roommate or something? Or if you rented and got an apartment, you could go back to the house down the road.

Just a thought. Hang in there, buddy!

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Thanks Everyone!
LT-I do think the numbers are the same. I need to ask W for one in case she needs medical attention when I'm with her. I will be able to see if D19 is on from the card.

Heather-No worries! You have a good point and sometimes you have to do what needs to be done no matter what they think at the time.

Job-Yes, W is acting exactly like her father acted towards her not only when she was young but still today. He does the same with his grandkids. Unless you do what he wants, the way he wants, he will just push you out of his life. It is all about control. He is the ultimate narcissist. The thing is, W USED to see this about him but now is blind to it. He controls things when he is around even telling her where to put her bed in her own bedroom. D19 told me when she was visiting her mom when she first moved and her dad was there, she had just bought a new bed and set it up in her room. When she was done her father told her the bed was "in the wrong place". She said her mom told him that was where she wanted it and liked it. D19 went in the other room for a bit and when she came back her mother was moving her bed to where her father told her to put it. The only reason he had to do this was to control W and she lets him. She told me she wasn't going to a lawyer and when she did said her father "talked her into it". She told me she wasn't going to file and when she did said her father "talked her into it" again. Kinda defeats the purpose of her leaving which she said was so she could "be in complete control of every part of my life". Looks to me like she's letting him control a big part of it. She knows that as soon as she stops letting him control her, he will just stop being a part of her life. This is what he did with his only son and name sake when he wouldn't do what his father wanted.

AJ- You always have great insights, thanks.

Mighty- Thanks for stopping by! D15 and I have always had a great R. I know she is struggling with dealing with so much crap in her life. She is so worried that she will do what her mother is doing when she gets older. She can't understand how her mom just changed so much and how she doesn't care about her or her sister. She just started HS and is trying to fit in in public school and at the same time still keep her old friends from private school who live so far from her when she is with her mom. This is a lot for a 15 year old. Just yesterday she called in tears. She forgot her key and was locked out of her mom's house. The night before she called to tell me she had forgotten her favorite shoes at my house. She also had a coupon to a store she really likes that was expiring. I told her I would bring her her shoes and since I was coming down there I'd take her to the store. We had fun and when I dropped her off she used the key to get in the house. This is why she forgot it. She usually just leaves it in her backpack. She called her mom and she told her she wouldn't be leaving work for at least an hour and D15 would just have to make the best of it. She called me to see if I could help her but I live 45 min's away. By the time I got there her mom would be on her way and I don't have a key anyway.

The thing is this has happened before and W told me that she was going to get a spare key and hide it just in case D15 got locked out. It really isn't safe for her to be stuck outside like that! When I asked D15 about that she said her mom never remembers to get a spare key. She added that of course she didn't, it isn't for or about her so why bother. She was crying saying she had such a hard day, just wanted to go home. It was heart breaking. I told her that when she comes back to stay with me next week, I'll get a key made and she can hide it so this never happens again. This is exactly the kind of thing I hate about my sitch. D15 is too far away, has a parent who isn't interested in being a parent and can't be counted on. D19 can't count on help. D15 can't count on having at least one parent around who cares. This is what happens in D. This is a big part of why you don't say things like "I don't want my marriage to work" which is just about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

It seems to me like MLCers are like Mr. MaGoo in the cartoons. They go through life causing destruction to everyone around them but just are too blind to notice. But if you tell them "You really need glasses" they just say no, they are just fine, it's everyone else that has the problem. I think my W is reaching the point where the newness is wearing off having her "own" place. It's been 7 months now and it's not as much fun and the excitement is dying down. She sure doesn't seem happy when I see or talk to her. But of course, she won't slow down. I need to learn the best ways to deal with the havoc she causes. I am learning and figuring things out as the come up. I guess over time I will find the best ways to help my girls. I actually envy my W. She just doesn't care so is going blissfully through life only caring about herself. What a life. And she complains how "hard" things are!

I went into the new office today. I don't start until Feb 2nd, but I wanted to get a head start on getting the training done. It's going to be a big change from what I have been doing and I'm not going to be in management for the first time in 15 years! Time for me reinvent myself once again and work my way to being successful in yet another business. I've done it before and by God, I'll do it again. I have my girls who need me and I want my life to work for me and them. To me the way W is living is so sad and lonely. Some day she is going to wonder why her kids aren't interested in her. She is almost 50 and only cares about her dying father and her work. He will be gone soon and she won't work forever. I know that my girls will always be a part of my life and look forward to being a part of their and their families lives forever!

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I guess over time I will find the best ways to help my girls. I actually envy my W. She just doesn't care so is going blissfully through life only caring about herself. What a life. And she complains how "hard" things are!
Be careful with that thinking, Matt. Envying somebody who checked out of life, is angry, confused, etc? Think about that. I know you're casually mentioning it and likely wouldn't want to change places, but try not to even let the thought enter your mind. It's slippery.

And yes, you will figure out how to help the girls grow up and be women. Believe me, your W won't likely change any time soon, if at all. Self-centered thinking takes on a life of its own.

I can tell you that years after this began for me (outwardly), my ex is still trying to show anger toward me. In between telling me how happy she is and glad she cheated etc. or asking for something. The inconsistent nuttiness continues. And both her and her husband don't care if they hurt the kids. They're just pawns to them. An avenue to get at me, judging by their actions. All while telling old friends how evil I am and what a terrible father etc.

I suppose it's all perspective, academically. But I see the self-centered anger and childish behavior. Right down to the third-grade vernacular in the email exchanges. For me, it's a few months from over. My youngest turns 18. This outwardly started when he was 11.

My suggestion? Stop thinking about what she "should" do, and reset your expectations to zero with her. Once you do that, it frees you up to be the father your daughters need, vs. the father that tries to just be better than his ex. Not that you're doing that, but it's easy to do in these situations. I've done it and didn't even realize it for a long time. Once I did, it became easier to drop all of that and it caused the ex to become subversive in her efforts to show anger toward me. i.e. I let go and let her go from all aspects.

I still parent my son, but at his age that's not nearly as much as I was doing. I still protect both kids from their mom and step-dad. But I'm selective with that. More than even before.

Result? My kids notice. They notice their mom and her actions toward me and toward them. It's part of them learning and forging the relationship with their mom they want to have at this point.

In other words, focus on you and being a parent. Let W spin herself out. She needs to anyway. It frees you up for the new job, new life and focusing on the girls. Not much time for anything else, ya know? smile

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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