To Stir Or Not to Stir That Pot

[Gerda]

Thanks for taking the time to think about my situation. I think it's really hard to understand someone's entire life from reading two posts written on a really bad day; but needless to say, I am not financially dependent upon my husband. If anything, it's the complete opposite.

An MLC'er as far as I have read seems to follow a script, mine follows it to an almost laughable point as far as what he says and does -- I don't think mine is any different from any of the spouses I have read about on these forums, it's just more in my face because he is home. As hard as it is, I am glad he has never left us, I feel blessed when I am able to think clearly that something keeps him here. I think it's really easy to read a few lines about someone's life and think they are doing it all wrong; but in any event I appreciate that you took time out of your day to think about mine.

And I would highly recommend the book, "God and the World," if you were raised Catholic. It sounds like you aren't practicing any more, but that book is a very beautiful and profound discussion of the faith by the last pope, so you might find it interesting.

[Cadet]

I am not financially dependent upon my husband. If anything, it's the complete opposite.

I am glad to hear this, make sure you keep healthy boundaries in place and you are not financing an affair.

Unfortunately if he lives in the basement you might not get him to emerge for a very long time.

[kml]

Gerda - I'm glad to hear that you are not financially dependent.

Yes, I am no longer a practicing Catholic as I have issues with the church's stand on certain issues, but I continue to lead a spiritual life.

When I hear about your son saying those awful things to you over a protracted period of time, I have to assume that A) he has heard somebody else say similar things to you, presumably your husband, and B) you do not have sufficient authority as a parent to enact consequences that will make the behavior stop.

As the mother of 3 and someone who was married for 24 years, I cannot imagine EVER allowing my spouse or children to speak to me in that manner. So unless your son has Tourette's syndrome, I stand by my concern that he is learning these behaviors from your husband and that is a dangerous thing.

I'm also concerned about your son's latest statements to you. Frankly, a child that age should not be having to make statements like that. It concerns me that he may be seriously depressed, may even have been having suicidal thoughts (yes, it can happen at this age!). I'm not sure why the discord between you and your husband is having such a serious effect on your son (has he witnessed fights? Threats to leave? Is your H verbally abusive to the kids?). I would recommend getting counseling for your son, and trying your best to protect the kids from what is going on - make sure they don;t overhear you talking about the situation to friends, etc.

Also - I know from growing up Catholic that the stories of the martyr saints are powerful. But that can be a BAD example if it leads to codependent behavior without good boundaries. You need to develop the strength to lead.

A big part of DBing involves working on ourselves, fixing the legitimate (not the crazy) complaints that our spouse might have about us, letting go of the rope and working on creating a fabulous life FOR YOURSELF. Your spouse may or may not choose to become part of that life, but you will be ahead of the game either way.

Just remember, don't be a doormat. Standing and taking the high road are different than allowing abuse.

[Gerda]

Maybe I have missed something in my year of lurking here, but how would it be possible for any child to not be deeply affected by the MLC of his father?! My son's beloved, loving, caring, God-loving, totally involved father completely disappeared and in his place is a mean, God-hating, angry, totally uninvolved alien? My kids and I have lost the most wonderful man, the center of our existence, and in his place is this mean roommate-ish person who looks like him but isn't him! Of course I am worried about my son and desperately I am seeking counseling and mentors and soccer and so on, but the fact is that a tragedy hit our family. That is the reality. Just like it's a tragedy for the LBS that I have to slowly figure out how to face. Just like me, my son has to grieve until the time comes that we can heal, it's not like I can force my husband to come back for my son either. Whether my husband left the house or didn't, this would still be the case. If my son weren't sad, angry, struggling, questioning, THEN I would be really worried! Indeed, I think my own husband must have gone through something like this when he was young, with his own dad (alcoholic, nasty, vicious abusive man), but probably had to bottle everything up inside, and his mom was never an advocate for him so he had no one to believe in him, ran away from home, etc. That's the childhood-to-teen-years crisis that was re-triggered in his midlife.

If other moms have not had to face the unraveling of left-behind-kids, you are so lucky, and my situation is more intense than I realized. But I have read a lot about MLC men who were very close to their kids withdrawing from them as much as from their wives. In our case, he and my son were so devoted to each other, and he was less close to my daughter; and he is the most angry and the most withdrawn from me and my son while he is actually pretty good with my daughter, though still very uninvolved. But he will barely interact with my poor son but in an evening if I leave the house for a few minutes he will sit and draw fairies with my daughter from her how-to-draw fairies book, which seems shocking when juxtaposed with the rest of his behavior. I have told my son all about MLC so that he can understand that it's not about him or his fault,so that he can hold the hope that this is a temporary thing that will one day end, even though it will take a very long time.

But there is no easy answer for me, my son or any of us; it is a downright tragedy for our family just as it is for everyone in this forum.

[job]

Gerda,
Generally the MLCer will select one child out of the family to become close to. It is usually the child that will not question or challenge them about what they are doing. Also, the child that is "cast aside" may remind them of themselves when they were that age. It's difficult when children are treated this way and that's why it's very important that the LBS spend as much time w/the children, validate their feelings and reassure them that they are there for them. What your h is doing is reliving his past and yes, they do tend to act out like many of the people who hurt them, be it physical, emotional or mentally.

Eventually, when the MLCer begins to reconnect, he/she will begin to connect in the opposite order of the disconnection. Until that time, you will have to be "both" parents to your children. You have every right to be upset and concerned about your son. His world has been rocked. Continue to seek help for him. Get him involved in activities that will help him release that pent up anger and frustration.

Whatever you do, do not try to force your h to be there for your son. The more you push, the harder he will run in the opposite direction and yes, he'll resent not only you, but your son for trying to pull them together. MLC has to run it's natural course and unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about them...but we can take care of ourselves and protect our children as much as we can from the fall out.

[tadpole1025]

Generally the MLCer will select one child out of the family to become close to. It is usually the child that will not question or challenge them about what they are doing.

Wow!

That is so true. I've seen the exact same thing happen in my sitch. My XW has pretty much shut off from all of our sons EXCEPT ONE. Why? Because even though he has given her a rough time about all of this, he has questioned her the least. Job is spot on.

Be there for your kids. You have to be both parents. That's really all that you can do.

Take care.

Tad

[kml]

Maybe I have missed something in my year of lurking here, but how would it be possible for any child to not be deeply affected by the MLC of his father?

I did not mean to suggest that your son should be unaffected by this. However, the SEVERITY of his response, usually does not occur when it is just a matter of the father being absent and the parents having discussions about the affair behind closed doors. So this is what makes me concerned that either your H is being actively abusive to your son, or abusive to you in front of the children (is this where he has learned to use such foul language with you?), or he is overhearing way too much detail about your marital problems.

The children should not overhear you speaking to others about the marriage, nor should they hear H calling you names or otherwise abusing you. You cannot control H so if his behavior is harming the children you need to leave or get him to leave.

I'm just trying to emphasize that your son's reaction is extreme, even compared to most here, and I am trying to figure out which of these factors may be contributing?

[Gerda]

Generally the MLCer will select one child out of the family to become close to. It is usually the child that will not question or challenge them about what they are doing.

Wow!

That is so true. I've seen the exact same thing happen in my sitch. My XW has pretty much shut off from all of our sons EXCEPT ONE. Why? Because even though he has given her a rough time about all of this, he has questioned her the least. Job is spot on.

Be there for your kids. You have to be both parents. That's really all that you can do.

Take care.

Tad

Isn't it amazing how comforting it is to read that someone else is going through the same thing? And that even though your sons are so much older! It's a comfort to know that this insanity is "normal" for the insanity.

Tonight you and your wife are in my prayers.

[Gerda]

Maybe I have missed something in my year of lurking here, but how would it be possible for any child to not be deeply affected by the MLC of his father?

I did not mean to suggest that your son should be unaffected by this. However, the SEVERITY of his response, usually does not occur when it is just a matter of the father being absent and the parents having discussions about the affair behind closed doors. So this is what makes me concerned that either your H is being actively abusive to your son, or abusive to you in front of the children (is this where he has learned to use such foul language with you?), or he is overhearing way too much detail about your marital problems.

The children should not overhear you speaking to others about the marriage, nor should they hear H calling you names or otherwise abusing you. You cannot control H so if his behavior is harming the children you need to leave or get him to leave.

I'm just trying to emphasize that your son's reaction is extreme, even compared to most here, and I am trying to figure out which of these factors may be contributing?

I really do appreciate your thoughts but we have a very different view of what is possible and what should be done in this situation. There are tiny opportunities everyday for light to shine in this darkness, and I am very thankful that my husband has not left us and that my kids are able to see me enact the meaning of my vows and find even very small ways to still be a family even in this horrible year.

[Gerda]

Gerda,
Generally the MLCer will select one child out of the family to become close to. It is usually the child that will not question or challenge them about what they are doing. Also, the child that is "cast aside" may remind them of themselves when they were that age. It's difficult when children are treated this way and that's why it's very important that the LBS spend as much time w/the children, validate their feelings and reassure them that they are there for them. What your h is doing is reliving his past and yes, they do tend to act out like many of the people who hurt them, be it physical, emotional or mentally.

Eventually, when the MLCer begins to reconnect, he/she will begin to connect in the opposite order of the disconnection. Until that time, you will have to be "both" parents to your children. You have every right to be upset and concerned about your son. His world has been rocked. Continue to seek help for him. Get him involved in activities that will help him release that pent up anger and frustration.

Whatever you do, do not try to force your h to be there for your son. The more you push, the harder he will run in the opposite direction and yes, he'll resent not only you, but your son for trying to pull them together. MLC has to run it's natural course and unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about them...but we can take care of ourselves and protect our children as much as we can from the fall out.

I can't tell you how helpful your notes are to me, Job. I read this last week and daily find myself remembering what you said about not pushing and just focusing on protecting my kids. Your words really have helped me retrieve my patience and my ability to accept what is happening as reality, and to work with what I have -- and even to be thankful that I have something to work with! Thank you!