pain meds, depression, separation turning bad

[Zelda09]

Sound advice, Happy. I thank you.

[gan]

Hey Zelda, I just wanted to throw out a few ideas that may or may not be helpful. I only offer them because I went through a lot of the same thought processes as you and have come out the other side feeling pretty ok even if things aren't clear on the R front.

- I've invested 15 years in this relationship and like you, in the early days post BD I found myself thinking it was all a waste. But then I realised that wasn't true. Many good things happened in those years and there is not much I would have changed about it. That chapter of my life is already written and I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out actually. The next chapter may take a different direction. Some characters might leave the story, other new ones may be introduced...but it's all ok. In the end this has made me realise that we all need to cherish each and every interaction we have with people who are important to us, as no one knows what's going to happen when we turn to the next page.

- Like you, I feel like I was the drive behind us taking the step from de facto to marriage (10 years into the R; there were visa issues there, too) and again with the child thing it was me who was trying to steer that ship. I found some of the stuff by David Schnarch on how there is always a high-desire and low-desire partner for every issue in a M useful for finding peace with this. I assumed the role of high-desire partner on issues like marriage and babies, while I assumed the role of low-desire partner on issues like sex (which is not to say that I didn't desire sex, just didn't desire sex as much as H). The low-desire partner controls the outcome. Which is to say, unless they work it through and decide they can overcome the issue then what they say goes. Our Hs gave us the M because they worked it through and decided they could live with that decision (at the time). If they didn't, well it wouldn't have happened. If they are saying otherwise now, well - believe half of what they say...

- Related to the above, I took a long hard look at the child issue in the early days post-BD and settled on the feeling that I could be quite content not having children. I can have a perfectly fulfilled life in other ways. And that's a funny thing, since it was such a big issue for me before BD. I successfully managed to drive a wedge between H and I because I wasn't willing to let something go, even though I now realise I was. In other words, I was confronting H about this and seeing him as the issue, rather than confronting myself and figuring out what I was really willing to live with. Again, the stuff by Schnarch helped me get here. ***The child thing is is a big issue and you need to work it through. Happy has some good advice***

- Our Hs are lost. What a dreadful place that must be. I have always had a pretty good idea of what I wanted in life, my H not so much. That would be difficult, no? I truly believe he didn't want to end up in this place, just as much as I didn't want to. Knowing this makes me feel love and compassion for him, rather than anger and resentment.

- If I'm being really truthful with myself, then I predicted my H and I would find ourselves in this place. If you've read my whole sitch then you'll know that there are some background issues with my Hs family as well. When his parents divorced when he was 25 and he seemed not to be able to cope with that (even 10 years later he still largely rejects them), I wondered what that said about his ability to deal if things got tough between us. We even talked about it and he thought nothing of it. And here we are. I've come to realise that my willingness to continue the relationship was really about me accepting him - including his good and bad parts. We have sensitive Hs who - even if lost in themselves - do what they can to make us feel ok (sometimes at their own expense). There's something pretty loving, if not sustainable about that. If H and I ever get the opportunity to work though that dynamic I think we could have a fantastic relationship.

Have you read Labug's story? It's a long one but full of inspiration. The primary goal she set early on was that she didn't want to wind up being an angry divorced woman. So she went about doing things to ensure she didn't end up in that space. Highly recommend.

[Zelda09]

Ganb8te, I will take some time to digest what you say. I know you've hit a nerve in pointing out the essence of what did make me and H work...I feel my guard dropping just in reading some of your words. You speak with so much peace, I admire it.

How is it, this low-desire/high-desire thing, these lost men...what is it in a woman that makes us choose this? I mean, what about Amal and George Clooney? That's looking pretty good.

[Zelda09]

Having a rough one. H is coming back into town and I feel a mess inside about it. DB is about the independence, strength and not being yanked around on the other end of that rope.

After reading some of the 2nd and 3rd bombs that are dropping all around this board...I think my guts are churned up waiting for mine. I tell myself over and over again that nothing has changed, to not expect a change of heart or mind on his part. He may stay for a few days and it will mean nothing.

I want to welcome him back with all that love and compassion, unconditional friendship and hope that paves a way along with my centered strength. It's just so hard to imagine with the anger and resentment I've been trying to process in realizing the big picture. If there was Drano to get that stuff out of the system quickly, I'd be all over it.

Give me a few thoughts here, guys. How to receive him, how to hold myself up through it. And the sex thing - it will be an option. I am here because I want to save my M, and show him I've heard him, that it's not too late. That's what my heart wants. My head knows it's time to prepare for the worst, or more of the same.

[Zelda09]

H came home last night.

There is a big brew of statements, thoughts, feelings I am still trying to process. We had some more conversation over dinner and I tried to validate as often as he gave me the chance. I was strong, balanced, not overly eager. Tenses switched all over the place from past, present, future, and he admitted to being nervous feeling like trusting me again would be dangerous, I have not been good for him, etc. I did not push it, just explained that I understood and was scared too. On the way home from dinner I said something in response, "which is why I think we should go slow," and his retort tore me up - "I think we should date other people."

I've been on the board long enough to know what that means. I asked him if he had started a relationship with anyone else, or had been looking. He stated no, and asked me the same thing. I said I am married and have not. He said something about how it was easier. We talked more about it last night and this morning. He backed off from 'wanting' to see other people to stating it was the easier route and that's all he meant. He is clearly looking for the attention of a lover (my read, not his statement), and relief from the stress he feels from our relationship. He is also soul searching and aware he's in a really weak place, still panicking but no longer trying to 'squish all his feelings down' and just doesn't know what he wants. But he wants to be around other people whom he can 'depend on.' We went to bed together after some more conversation -not about the other people thing, about our tempers, the past, and he just held me as we fell asleep.

This morning he started kissing me and making some moves. I stopped him and asked if we could talk about what this meant. Sure. I told him I was going to feel used if this was just physical, and that I wasn't comfortable with his wedding ring off, the admission he wants to date others, and sharing my body like that. I wanted to have sex with my husband who, regardless of our complications and situation, was committed to a monogamous emotional and physical relationship. At one point he said something about how of course he was trying to connect with me emotionally, he had tried all last night, and even if he was seeing others, he would still be trying. I calmly stated that if he wanted to see other people, that was it for us. I had no desire to drag this out if that is where his heart was. We got into more conversation about past times I was jealous if he was just interacting with a girl. I said I understood (and at that time, I didn't have a basis for jealousy)- but there was a big difference between him looking for support of friends and meeting new people and leaving the door open for romantic interest. He played stupid and wanted to split hairs on the difference. I went back to my original assertion - if he wanted to look for romantic attention elsewhere, I did not want to be married much less sleeping together. I stayed kind and calm and stated that I had to look at what was good for me, and what he was proposing wasn't going to be something I could handle. I want to see him happy, but not at my expense, and would wish him well if this is what he wanted. He agreed that we would be emotionally and physically monogamous. And we ML.

He remains intently focused on himself and has said he is still struggling with suicidal thoughts. I asked if he still felt all that anger for me or if he'd released it - he said no, he went away as an escape and didn't get very far working on his feelings - that he doesn't know how and feels like he is going to be behind for the rest of his life. He is concerned I care more about our R than him. He is getting into to see his IC and psych this week. And has agreed to go to our MC on top of it.

He looked annoyed later this morning when he noticed I'd taken our pictures down and I told him hurt too much to keep looking at them every day for the last two months. He didn't say anything, just walked away. It's ok for him not to wear his ring bc looking at it makes him bitter and angry - but this bothered him. Why?

My plan is to give him space and not bring up our R again, to let him process this last twelve hours, yet be available if he wants to talk through his feelings. To be supportive, kind, and show off the changes I've been working on. It is clear to me now, and it came up over and over again, that emotional distance from me is not what he wants. He wants to feel like he can depend on me like that (but is in the place of a WAH, not wanting to trust or let down many walls.) He is scared of the whole situation setting him further back.

This is the 2nd time - as we were first discussing rules of our S was the 1st - that he has expressed a desire to meet/see other people but not have physical relations. This is the 2nd time we've discussed how emotional leads there, and it doesn't give us a fair shake. He keeps coming back to this point only to agree with my reasons against it - and I am realistic that he will reach this point again unless I can show him I can meet his emotional needs and give him the attention of a lover (instead of a disappointed spouse.) This won't be overnight.

So friends, your thoughts and suggestions as I work on my changes, give him an environment to work on healing and addressing his issues, and don't leave myself on the end of a wildly swinging rope - all while I do what I can do to repair this M? I know he is hurting and confused and there is a lot going on for him outside of our R. I just don't want to get hurt anymore. The advice for that is to detach, can I do that while being his emotional rock? Outside perspectives welcomed.

[Zelda09]

Feeling thankful that goal #1 is achieved - he is home, by February.

I am processing my emotions by myself, instead of throwing them at him to reassure, validate, comfort. Personal goal - being achieved, day by day.

Other than that, I am consumed by nagging worry, sadness, fear. The long history he has of reaching out to other women - friends, platonic and otherwise to meet his emotional needs. Why not guys? They're not interested in that he says. And he's convinced I can't because I haven't before. The seeing other people comment is tearing me up. Before he knew it was a firm boundary he was explaining his little fantasy that he'd be dating other people, working on himself, and making time to connect with me, too. He's backed off of that verbally, but now I am wondering how long that intention was there - whether he was honest with himself about it prior to BD, or after. And now, how he is dealing with his 'promise' not to seek out romantic connection. Can I trust this?