mlc rut

[pbetra]

Thanks kml & sofaraway for dropping by my 'little neck of the woods' here at the db forum .
Appreciate the acknowledgement!!! Again, my best wishes re: 2015!
p.

btw Had hoped to read more of your sitch but got a bit *delayed - (as *I have just begun to experience some of the old cycle with h's lost lead, aka 'here we go again' )

[pbetra]

So great to hear from you pbetra! I was worried about you as we haven't heard from you in so long!

Happy New Year! Thanks Matt, it was crazy for a bit and the growing fatigue and increasing occurance of illness (although not too serious) compounded the sitch I guess. But all in all "ok" -

Like you I am still not in anywhere close to a decent financial state but am working hard towards getting there.

Sorry to hear Matt, I know how hard you were at it when I frequented the forum! $$ is an unwanted 'distractor' when you're TRYING to sort things out!

As for me, W has been pushing hard to finalize the D and the last meeting didn't go well for me.

Going to see! Know your lawyer was handling for you & assumed that the 'composite parts' of this process were moving along (as they shouLd) on the 'divorce conveyor belt' - guess not !? ...

Thanks again Matt for popping by! Take care, p.

[pbetra]

About mid-Jan (how things changed since Christmas).

Been thinking of stages since $$/employment lead failed to come through for h.
I am not being treated with the hostility I met with before - that has changed but some deceit is still there although reduced.

Stages
2014 - when this began almost a year ago (bd early march 2014) the 'call 2 the road' was intense as expected. Clubs & trendy bars with 'said buddy & co.' were frequent. Behaviour was that of a homonal, immature teenage boy.

Transitioning throughout 2014:
- a few months later & b 4 the end of the year - the tendency was to set off to quieter places with small groups to drink & drink & drink & smoke ... (these are just from bits of information pieced together) The glitzy environmets were no more & replaced with more 'hippie inspired', 'naturalist' ones .

2015 - a reversion (!) to some 'familiar' habits:
Trigger ->

• income issues (as always), &
  meeting up with the gang from that wonderful 2014 event that they all enjoyed, the event that made h. feel that he had no real life preceding the BD.

There is some renewed 'vigor' after meeting the gang again and also from the excitement & mood associated with it. He also met with a long lost buddy!!.

2014, 2015:
From the the nightclubs & trendy, sleek bars, to naturalist hippie experiences of 2014, 2015 is now about 'entertainment' places that are a bit more seedy! He doesn't 'act' like a teenager though, he seems reserved - on the surface.

H recently went out for the 1st time in a long time one weekend (his finances were also low & a contributing factor re: social life). H returned an hour b4 sunrise! (he had left to go out after I went to bed/fell asleep. I heard him return but pretended I did not). I waited until he changed into PJs etc & fell asleep, before I got up myself for a cuppa coffee.

Nite out
Later that morning, H came to find me not long after he woke up. Said good morning (as 'usual' etc), stretching ... There was superficial, shallow talk ... looking out window. Then after about 5+ minutes of this crap (he didn't look at me at first) ... He even looked away smiling b 4 looking at me to let me know that he went out. I could tell that there was some uneasiness as he did not mention this right away, hence all the supercial talk. "Unplanned, last minute" - "just went to hang out". He obviously felt compelled to say something (!!?) maybe b/c of associations with last year ? Dunno ... I never asked. Since i was asleep when he left, I pretended that I was asleep when he returned (made it easy for him).

I don't know if the smile was 'quiet cussing' at me, mockery, self consciousness, guilt ? ... or simply recalling something 'spicy' (!!) re that night ...

Continuing with comparisons/behaviour:
2015 Sooooo the deceit is still there (of course). Maybe the same 'level?' Maybe not -this is all relative to 'conditions.' For some reason, he felt compelled to say 'something' (??). h 'told me' without 'really telling me'though - it was shallow. ;0). Made it seem like a 'normal' boys night out but initial hesitation communicated what exactly?? In any event, my capacity for trust is severely worn down, so I don't believe anything. I just listen.

Comp. 2014 - almost a year ago he felt that he did not 'owe' me a (courtesy) explanation of any kind (as respect to spouse). If he did - I felt the MOCKERY, the lying - the 'stranger' in him, the disdain for me, all while he said whatever he wanted to. This went on without caring for my feelings, when he knew outright that I may have realized what he was doing, how hurtful it was, but he DID IT ANYWAY! So that's been different the last few months ... & now,
2015 He felt (?) he had to say something re his night out??? REALLY DON'T GET IT. Re: his new entertainment places of choice, he would not want me to know where he frequents anyway. He may even think he's doing 'well' (??) by letting me know where he's been ('owed me' explanation??) Puzzling! ... I don't have the energy to figure out, & not that interested ...

2014 - had substitute places to 'compensate' for not taking me out to usual places (as he had stopped taking me to the nicer restaurants, trendy bars etc - I suspect b/c he was 'reserving' those, seeking new OW).
This was typically in the beginning of the MLC roller coaster ride & some sporadic times thrown in between ...(b 4 finally shamelessly & blatently going out on his own as though single). However, h kept one foot in door by giving me the impression that he was still in R. He did this through what i thought of as compensation/substitution tactics

He exposed me only to 'sedate places'/experiences - eg 'lake', no nightlife or glamour (unlike the whole 'gamut' during our M) ... & also to similar people if that unavoidably came up.

The 'compensate/subsitute tactics' I viewed as his being a smart -'donkey' & his REALLY BELIEVING (!!) that I fell for it (!) or was fooled by it (simply b/c he was giving me 'attention'). After a while , even that stopped as my 6 month timeline for re evaluation had arrived, & he sensed a change in me.

Pattern:
Interestingly - h wants to take me to 'sedate' outing next week! This came up not long after the 'night out' conversation we had (which he brought up again next day). He 'volunteered' a little more 'information' - just like that I might add. This 'compensation/substitution action' typical in 2014, has re emerged for the 1st time in months! However, it is a similar set of conditions that 'ignited' it anyway (event w/party people & buddies & employment issues). It's too early to tell of course but it just shy of the anniversary of the BD, and prompted by the same things. A bit coincidental. Will it be a watered down version repeating itself? Many (re buddies) will be here for a while so I will see what happens!

Like 2014, there was loss of patience since the day of 'no lead/$$.' Wow did I get it! 3 times in 1 morning - insults, being snapped at, impatience - fault finding & 'put downs' ... (thought 2 things: 1 - "been there, done that, bought the t shirt," & 2 - "your problem not mine." I was so @!#$#$%%* fed up). As mentioned before though, there is less 'overall' hostility toward me - SO FAR anyway (we have a few more weeks to go b 4 the end of the year & anything's possible LOL ) I recently met someone who knew h quite well in his youth. Said h. was "very arrogant, felt he was better than". This may be part of the reason he does not cope well when he is not the success he expects to be.

At the moment, I am thinking of c. observing & tweaking sitch as I go. My biggest problem is financial - it is NO LONGER "HIM!" I would love to get into expressive arts & am currently producing interesting pieces!!!

Take care all, p.

[pbetra]

Almost a year:
After the big party last year about this time 2014, I was 'BD-ed' March 6th - it's almost a year ...

Well, the (now annual) 'big reunion of sorts' took place. This year there were some new 'fun' players. The 'big reunion' could not be compromised or missed! h even got an additional buddy! They stayed out until sunrise bar hopping, looking for women, hitting the credit card etc, ... all the old behaviours.
It WAS (!) deja vu all over again !! Couldn't believe it - so 'eerie' really

Anyway to update:
We had a conversation. To say that I was put down was an understatement. It was 'rough,' but I knew why - the 'big reunion' was coming up & h needed 'permission' to do what he really wanted (btw - up to that point we we intimate on/off). Anyway h has been repeatedly mentioning a certain type/race of woman as being the 'ideal' for men. I would use 'Coy but Cougar Race' as a bogus race for purposes of illustration here. The point is, he had been talkng about these women as being great for men over & over & over again etc. My shortcomings as a wife were evident on ALL LAYERS. I didn't stand a chance! How they "would do anything" submit I guess (among any mother wonderful attributes - they seemed perfect) ... Well I am NOT that race, can't change my race ( which is the race that he seems to be currently taken up with). So it went on my shortcomings & all the mistakes I made. I felt insulted, disrespected. That conversation did it for me ... & him!

I did not db as well as I should have in that I showed my feelings (discontent) & verbally responded although NOT a lot. h withdrew, got 'cold stone angry' & eventually walked away. Although I held my ground (db/180), my immediate thoughts were about how I messed up and I was afraid 4 the rest of the day. I thought I had 'undone' so much progress ...

Later that day, in spite of my feeling self conscious re messing up w/db, I felt angry w/h. Just happened. h heard me in kitchen as I do have a 'patient' to look after & he came out for something. He did not say anything or look at me - again 'stone cold anger'. This happens when he 'can't even stand to look' at me! I simply decided to stay away as much as possible. Frankly, I didn't want to see him either. For that day & the next, he had nothing to say to me.

I went 2 a meditation class that I sometimes attend. I msg h that I was out, & a little later re child, c. This is usually the courtesy we extend/ the protocol - & his preferred way of communicating when there is tension or he needs space. This time he did not reply. It didn't matter, I had done what we do as usual. That night, I got invited out & went. Again, I msg 'out' - this time a response! (i guess it was curiousity, as I do not go out at night as much, often day). The next day I went out. A friend knew about the tension & extended invitation to me. When I got home, he was in front where he could see me returning (& with whom if app. etc). He was chatting w/someone. He was clearly curious & started to small talk - including me in the conversation with his friend.

The small talk continued over the next 2 days as things returned to 'normal' (as normal as can be expected). It's funny but I remained angry, 'aloof' even though pleasant - this I could not control. The pleasantries continued between us, with h being nice as he saw a change in me that he never experienced. It was the I 'don't give a #$%^@#@$# anymore change. This is a RADICAL for me - risking this way was to risk M. However, the low blows were a bit much and all the people who are so 'great' are not the ones taking care of him or supporting him (Let THEM put $$ where their mouth is, walk the talk'!!) Here I am the jack donkey.
What struck me though, was the overall shortened period of time re: speaking to me again, & the reduced hostility relative to b 4.

MLC crumb sharing habits:
One week before that episode, h had invited me to tag along somewhere prior to the 'big renunion.' We did the expected 'placid, non glamourous' thing. He reserves other trendy outings for the those 'more deserving' of nice places. I knew what was happening. This was a 'set up' so that he could do what he really wanted 2 do. They, MLCers all think the LBS stupid. I went along (up to that point on one level), just observing actions as I was not sure what to do next. I did not want to spoil his event 4 him but knew in my heart that I cud not go through another year like this. There wud b changes re infidelity (!) as this was re-entering 'the relationship landscape' (unlike the 2014 holiday season).

Cat out of Bag:
Anyway, a few conversations later, something else came up! He muttered something (?) . I was doing some work that day and reflected about the strange talk we had. Asked him if he was thinking of stds? (b/c of the nature of the conversation). My reasons were two-fold - I needed to know if he was sick & also to bring up infidelity since I did not want another year of infidelity & occasional '@home intimacy combined. During the past year of observation, applying various methods ... & trying to see what works re mlc, I put up with it, 'tweaking' as I went, but my limit fo rthis was a year. h was clearly taken aback & confused that infidelity came up. Not long after, he came out - asked if I (!!) had been unfaithful? I said an emphatic "no!!" I could see the confusion lingering with him.

He obviously gave it more thought overnight b/c bright & early the next morning he confronted me about it yet A G A I N! Infidelity - why would I have asked about stds if i have no concerns for myself?. If the stds were NOT about me !!! Then ??? I think I threw him a curve as he felt his crumb throwing was doing the trick fro all of last year.

'Da script':
Then, along the script Wow! ... he "NEVER cheated on me". It was a 'seamless' script. Very impressive. No flinching, great eye contact VERY, VERY convincing. Fact is that I KNOW that he has been trying to meet women - dont know the names, faces etc (details) but I have spoken with my friend, we have seen, overheard & KNOW FOR SURE.
After he was done trying to convince me that it's just guys' hangong out having a good time and denying everything, he turned it on me!! Gave some pathetic examples of suspicous moments when he thought that it was I (!!) who had been unfaithful during our marriage (2 sep times!). GENIUS!

A few hours later, he tried to b 'nice' ( that day and the one after). Played music (what we liked as couple ) showed me old family photos when child was a baby, helped tidy when I was not around (which he does not typically do) and came to small talk quite often. Stuff he hadn't done for a while as 'mlc-ing' had taken over. Lots of damage control(he doesn't have many other options, so it is hard to gage this). The next day he took off. I suspect to express his rage, or other feelings and emotions privately. He left early and returned late (At one time, I did not know if he would return).

[pbetra]

'addendum'

Came to my room just over an hour when he got back from day out (previous post). Asked if I would hang out a bit b4 bed. There was more talking! It was 'spouse appreciation time.'

In spite of all the flux & time needed 4 all to unfold, I continue on MY path. of course. I am not doing the planning as well as hoped due to some 'brain fog' but I know that as I continue, the fog must clear at some point!

[pbetra]

I guess I am too cautious,/ suspicious or afraid too setting myself up , expecting the worse since it is only a year into this ...

If this were occuring year 3, I would 'buy into it' a bit more. Anyway, h is trying 2 b nice - so I must reciprociate & I have been nice, been 'gentle. This can't possibly b easy 4 him. I know it could be a different story next week, month etc ... but 4 now, he is trying, & so must I (party's over, everyone's flying out).

h & I have awkward moments of course but generally its been ok.

(Still keeping up with my goals to insulate myself from the flux of this condition.' As much as I wish all could go well, life is not always that simple & must move forward).

[pbetra]

Hi all in db land

Recently had feeling of numbness . Was sad.
Thankfully I am beginning to re-gain 'feeling' again ...
I don't know why the numbness or whatever 'it ' was came up.

h apologized (!!) "4 upsetting me." I did hold my ground after that fateful discussion (something that rarely happens as these things were never 'worth the energy'). I suspect that my reaction would have enraged him more b 4, but it didn't this time. Anyway, he did apologize. He's been trying so hard 2 b nice & although I have been pleasant, I can't help but feel & outwardly express > 'lukewarm.'

Up to yesterday he asked me 2 go with him on a drive and I did b/c I didn't want to give him the impression that I was still upset or punishing him or whatever (??) since he's been trying to b nice. We didn't speak much for majority of it - just enjoyed the ride. Felt sad I think. Maybe subconsciously I felt that it was over b/c on some level it seems so pointless (he's so volitile that he was threatened - sometimes one meets one's match in life? Yup you're 'bad', but there's always 'badder'). Don't know why I am feeling this way but am trying to figure out.

I can't mind read of course .. maybe he is sorry on some level esp. b/c he's never seen me like this but I feel it's all superficial. They all pursue 'when the LBS distances' ... & boy did I distance!! I think
I snapped 'somewhere' in my own mindspace - I changed. I felt it!

Like him, I was angry after that discussion but I was not concerned, fearful or budging from my angry 'position'. I just couldn't believe the level of crap and the tactics taken. I might have doormat medium size before but not that large - geez!! Maybe this is why I still can't change re lukewarm feeling to him in spite of his efforts. As soon as the comfort returns - so does the crapola. I continue 2 b pleasant but something is holding me back from so much - responding, creating!!

Oh, have to end here 4 now, hope 2 b back a little later (not done yet).
thx as always, p

[pbetra]

Continued:( re: Hi all in db land,above)

Ok, so I did what I had to earlier that day (previous post). Cleaned, organized ... stuff I do when excess energy needs to be expended & I am unable to go out.

I don’t know what happened to me recently - the numbness? drive? resignation? - thankfully, all are finally declining (good thing ), although incrementally. I guess the abundance of 'pre- big reunion' comments & remarks, the same @#$$%^*&%! conversation over & over (!) again, each time with more intensity and narrower intervals between them, was too much!
I could 'take' negative comments once, thrice, even a little more (this IS mlc after all!), but I was BOMBARDED. It was intentional (NOT an emotional outburst) - berating, belittling, communicating that I was less than & so inadequate ... but I knew why . The boys were gearing up for the 'event' and the women who would be there! The thing is, these recent conversations always began in a pleasant way - so I ‘returned’ the civility. Unfortunately, it eventually morphed to the same end or messages.

Absolute vs method madness:
I know this is ‘mlc crazy’ but I have also noted that there is often 'method in madness’ re crazy people of the world. Think about psychos.Very few psychos brutally kill their victims then call the police with a polite 'narrative' of what happened, as if reading a story at school including information about where to find the butchered bodies (this wud b true 'absolute madness').

Many are smart enough to commit crimes in isolated areas, hide the bodies and carefully remove any evidence. It's all 'secret' (which is why there are so many unsolved crimes and so many resources used to gather evidence to solve those crimes). They KNOW (!!) 'wrong' on some level - there is 'method' in the madness.

Well h's 'method' 2 berate was about giving himself a permission slip 2 do what he really wanted (explore opps. without limitations (!!) at the ‘big reunion’). These mlc-ers are 'smart crazy'... smart to suit themselves, crazy to make it work!

I wish my experiences were more 'normal' prior to mlc so that my emotional resources wouldn't feel too depleted ( I was already ‘wilting’ when mlc occurred ). The move was supposed to be a new beginning for the family away from the misfortune before - a time to heal. I put energy into carer role, did research re why child,c was affected - and took action' to have goals materialize. Then ... wait 4 it (!), 'this' happened (as though I needed a 3rd ‘project’ on top of the two!) I dont even know how 2/ or what I feel … actually I feel to go away. Bora Bora. Thatched roof off of a jetty projecting over turquoise ocean. Pina colada in one hand and a ‘batik- coloured type drink' in the other. btw, I read the thread / Book of Lou recently (as well as others, trying to catch up!!) - wow ! The 'space' (!!) she has is very attractive to me now.

Life WITH: ... re-capping the other anniversary, 1 yr later. (why? i feel the way I do ????!!)
It is harder to live with the mlcer I think (4 me anyway - such great immediate detaching is needed).

I suspect that it's easier to get on with one's life without the unpredictable ever changing extreme mlc moods & emotions in your face. The toxic churning that can b spewed at the LBS at any given time. You see, I was already 'down' when 'it' hit me. Like many of you, I had to exert MORE effort to cheer up within the same stinking space even when I didn’t ‘feel’ to. The need to 'self-will' constant PMA, the need to be upbeat, the need to hide when NMA (negative mental attitude) took hold b/c I was going through the motions & HAD TO express them somehow (unlike h who was free to express EXACTLY what he felt, whenever he felt!) The constant avoidance of the mlc-er during those times ... db-ing, observing, then tweaking, correcting, revising ... oh God. Space! oh God!

For me, & on those days when raging was very intense, I listened intently to determine whereabouts in the house as giving space, staying dim was imperative. Avoidance was key. Often laying low until I heard h leaving (this was welcome!). There were many days I was confined because funds were very low &/or didn’t have help during those periods. I was housebound. h was housebound (since jobs weren’t forthcoming), and during those times I looked for places to hide when anxious or sad. If i felt I could be 'found,' I tried to tidy myself up, look good, act pleasant - as there was no where to run to.

'Person Prompts:'
Mlc-ers are like journal prompts - but they are 'person prompts.' And these 'person prompts' come with unscheduled spikes of emotions of all kinds & intensities popping up within the shared environment - often when inconvenient.

This ‘visual,’ (the mlc-er, among other related influencers') was always nearby. There was so much effort to try to detach when that visual - the mlcer was a constant reminder of the history shared - and a trigger to recalling mlc experiences. There was no space to break from it all, NO SPACE TO ESCAPE from it, before getting back on with the false acts & pretences about feeling so dam good about life.

There were many days I 2nd guessed myself as self doubt was strengthened by fatigue. Looking for information here, but unable to filter the nuggets on many, many occasions. Dead end - I would try another day. It's hard to think 'effectively' when your own mind is distressed, tired, overloaded or brain fogged (& b/c of specific sitch you have to 'restain' until you can change the sitch).

'Gift of Space’:
It must be easier to have clearer head, think of where you're going, and plan the future while free to be oneself. Free to feel sad, mad or 'other' - instead of the constant PMA around mlc-er which isn't always authentically felt due to sitch! Lou/(Book of Lou thread) is luckier that way (by a 'little' margin as to NOT (!) under rate her pain I wouldn’t dare. this is rough stuff 4 all who come here). I just mean to say that she has the space to be HERSELF, to feel AUTHENTIC (whether good or bad) - with no pretences. For those of you NOT living with mlc-er, not only do “you have the gift of time” (quote > Cadet), but you also have the 'Gift of Space’ - don't take 4 granted!

Mind paper:
Like you, I am currently in M, after a year of trying (bd mar 6th 2014) - feel 'lukewarm'- I do know there are other ‘affecting’ factors that impact on overall sitch.

I put in on 'mind paper'.
> I have anxiety issues.
> I think I have been periodically mildly - moderately depressed.
> I am fighting for myself - whenever possible! (*GAL, PMA)
> I don’t have enough time for me -too much output, not enough *input to balance things out a bit
> I have been just over or below poverty line at different times. This one is hard! But I continue to try to change sitch. However, on a good note, I always manage to 'adjust accordingly relative to the sitch at the time ... (am grateful needs are met. have food, shelter, miss occasional bills but arrears are NEVER for long - thank u thank u! I do run a TIGHT ship to ensure that all stays manageable.
> My 2015 wish - wud love more help ( i can dream, can't i? :))
> I have created some interesting images - I feel some coming on after writing this post!!! (power of journalling??!!!

I will end as I don't want to forget ..

[pbetra]

well i asked h to take some time to sort himself out.
rec. an earful from h in that M is essesntially my fault. h did have valid points (that i had previously validated btw). cant remember details (??) now - I do feel sad by it all. I knwo that it is best at this point for us to be seaparate, take breather & sort things out. But I do feel awful

[pbetra]

cant stop crying