Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
C
Complex Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2527967#Post2527967


Very quick summary:

- EA discovered 2 weeks ago. Ongoing for 6 months. W told me about it at BD 6 months ago. After that she wanted to S because our M problems were deep.
- We married fast, 1 year T only, I moved for her. Very romantic 'vacation' love. I knew she's the one from the start.
- we weren't able to build on M much. Lacking deep communication, to much fighting and tension early on.
- I settled, she wanted more from her life. I lost myself in the M.
- EA got stronger and stronger. W lied about it.
- Her best friend supporting D
- W now rushing into D. No real D talk yet, but I know she thought everything through and made her decision to finally D me and to be with OM.
- W and OM seem to 'wait' for each other to legitimate their R
- Greencard application due in 2 months. Seems to be all the time I can buy.
- Family not involved yet (W has big awesome family)
- I have a very very hard time to detach after I found out she lied about OM, can't sleep, eat, work. DBing going well tho.

Probably mostly need help on "hard cases" where D is very close. What can I do to postpone? Even if she does hit rock bottom during D process her friend will support her. When family gets involved I think she will tell them "I thought everything through and I'm 100% sure about my decision, please respect it". (I know it's an assumption, she's a rather rational person tho).
I do NOT want D by the way. But I need ways to detach better and GAL. I have the problem that I don't have many friends here, mostly mutual, and no family. But I want to stay, going back home to Germany is not an option right now. She also is the bread giver. I make significantly less money, could barely survive on it. Mostly I think with my change of heart we could make this M work. But she is gone, completely gone.
I HAVE to detach and let it go. But I will DB and give this M my best shot so I won't regret in the end...I wish she could do the same.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Hi Complex

GAL needn't involve friends, and it can be a way of making friends. It is really something to keep you busy, focused and have your mind off your sitch. At a basic level, it could be cooking yourself a nice dinner, or giving the car a good clean. It could be a dentist appointment, or going for a massage. It could be a class, or getting fit, or it could be a social event.

What I did was come up with a list of 10 things I would like to do locally. Inevitably, when you start exploring them, they don't always come off. But my early GAL included:

Volunteering at a charity bookstore
Calligraphy Group that has monthly workshops
Book Group
Tai Chi class

Have a think and make yourself a list to work from. Just getting the GAL underway yourself gives you a focus. Have a think - if I had come to the US, not to be with my W, what sort of things would I like to be doing?


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,257
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,257
Originally Posted By: Toots
Hi Complex

GAL needn't involve friends, and it can be a way of making friends. It is really something to keep you busy, focused and have your mind off your sitch. At a basic level, it could be cooking yourself a nice dinner, or giving the car a good clean. It could be a dentist appointment, or going for a massage. It could be a class, or getting fit, or it could be a social event.

What I did was come up with a list of 10 things I would like to do locally. Inevitably, when you start exploring them, they don't always come off. But my early GAL included:

Volunteering at a charity bookstore
Calligraphy Group that has monthly workshops
Book Group
Tai Chi class

Have a think and make yourself a list to work from. Just getting the GAL underway yourself gives you a focus. Have a think - if I had come to the US, not to be with my W, what sort of things would I like to be doing?






A list of 10 GAL items that take up X many hours a week that don't involve the WAS. What a great way to GAL. Things that you want to to, that you get into that have nothing to do with them.

I need to do the same.

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Complex
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2527967#Post2527967


Very quick summary:

- EA discovered 2 weeks ago. Ongoing for 6 months. W told me about it at BD 6 months ago.


This^^ probably isn't very important but I'm a little confused. You say you "discovered" the affair 2 weeks ago but you also say "W told me...6 months ago", so, can you clarify that for me?



After that she wanted to S because our M problems were deep.
- We married fast, 1 year T only, I moved for her. Very romantic 'vacation' love. I knew she's the one from the start.
- we weren't able to build on M much. Lacking deep communication, to much fighting and tension early on.
- I settled, she wanted more from her life. I lost myself in the M.

Granted, this^^ is a short short summary, but it does not make those issues small. As you said, you "Settled" but I thought you said, that she told you back then, that it bothered her.

So in her mind, probably, she has already tried and gave you months or a year or so, to get back on track.

Does this^^ matter? Only in that you need to see HER point of view a bit more. I think that will help you validate her beliefs without agreeing with them.

Remember though, even if you do "agree" with a lot of what she says, you're allowed to have screwed up. I don't think admitting it hurts you.



- EA got stronger and stronger. W lied about it.

Ok, you mention the lying, a lot. My question is NOW, why does that matter?

I mean, isn't the issue that her feelings grew, not that she lied about it?

I'm beginning to sense a "scorecard" in you and that does not help you at all.



- Her best friend supporting D
- W now rushing into D. No real D talk yet, but I know she thought
---- everything through and made her decision to finally D me and to be with OM.

Complex, I believe you must Stop the mind reading and predictions. They do NOT help you. Seriously.


- W and OM seem to 'wait' for each other to legitimate their R


Again, this^^ assuming, mind reading and predicting are NOT helping you.

- Greencard application due in 2 months. Seems to be all the time I can buy.
- Family not involved yet (W has big awesome family)

If you have a good relationship with them, that's great!!

But why list it here as a non factor? What is relevant about it?

I hope you are NOT coming up with another "plan" - that is not what your DB Coach suggested doing....

Stay on YOUR path.


- I have a very very hard time to detach after I found out she lied about OM, can't sleep, eat, work. DBing going well tho.



A big part of DBing is taking care of yourself. Can you take better care of yourself?

Yes, and you must. It's a huge vital piece of DBIng. REALLY it is.

2 more things Complex.

First, I'm going to cross thru the things below, that you need NOT worry about b/c

1) they may not be true or accurate and 2) you cannot KNOW these things anyhow and 3) they are beyond your control! Let go of what you cannot control.

Second, I'm going to list some ways to detach, b/c you cannot heal without detaching and you cannot detach, without GAL.


Probably mostly need help on "hard cases" where D is very close. What can I do to postpone? Even if she does hit rock bottom during D process her friend will support her. When family gets involved
I think she will tell them "I thought everything through and I'm 100% sure about my decision, please respect it". (I know it's an assumption, she's a rather rational person tho).


I do NOT want D by the way. But I need ways to detach better and GAL. I have the problem that I don't have many friends here, mostly mutual, and no family.

GAL gets you the friends b/c it means you JOINED and or EXPLORED and or STUDIED and or CONTRIBUTED TO and or VOLUNTEERED something...

Which of these ^^ things can you do, this month? (I'll post a list soon).

In my opinion, GAL includes meeting NEW people - people who don't know your situation so you can obsess LESS. Get your mind OFF of your w.


But I want to stay, going back home to Germany is not an option right now. She also is the bread giver. I make significantly less money, could barely survive on it. Mostly I think with my change of heart we could make this M work. But she is gone, completely gone.

1) MAYBE she is "gone", maybe not; and 2) if so, she can return.

So don't harp on it so much. It does not help you. DBing 101 means doing what works and NOT doing what does not work.

It does not help YOU to have a negative attitude, so why not work on having a more positive one? I'm not saying to count on something and get "expectations" up, but you can have hope without setting yourself up to feel worse.


I HAVE to detach and let it go. But I will DB and give this M my best shot so I won't regret in the end...I wish she could do the same.


To heal, we must detach.

To detach, we must GAL.

To GAL we must get out of our "comfort zones" and push the envelope so that we go places and do things we might not ever have gone or done, but we do anyhow.

And we grow. And we become the better versions of ourselves, and we GAL even more and our attitudes about ourselves improves as we improve...

and we Detach, and we heal...and we become our best selves.

And that's ^^ NOT a small thing. That is a victory in itself.

In time, sometimes, the WAS turns to see what they left behind and if we have done our work, we look darn good to the WAS....

and sometimes that leads to a change in them, and sometimes that leads to a new, better relationship. It can happen.

Even If you do divorce, I have 2 family members who divorced only to later remarry their former spouses.

It's not the "end all" of everything. It's a piece of paper.

Yes, YOU have one unique thing that can complicate matters, which is your green card status. But from what you've said elsewhere, she's willing to help you out on that issue.

So, is the fear of having to return to Germany, really a likely scenario? If not, I'd let it go.




M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1

Complex,

For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter. I had 3 kids then, including a baby (so you know I don't want to hear about how you are 'too busy' to GAL).

Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. Overcome that & you'll be well on your way to a happier, more fulfilling life.

IMO, the more you overcome inertia, & focus on your own work, the better your R's will be with all people, including your w.

I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.

I coached a girl's softball team, two summers (my older D was on it).

I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, (b/c our son wrestled).

I auditioned for community theater and met some fun creative people. I got cast, too.

I did stand up comedy (and yes, I still do it). I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Improv. It went very well.

I learned to cross country ski, became a better shooter.

I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, & I got better at downhill skiing.

I learned to use a snowmobile ("snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding it.

Learned to fly a plane, & got a pilot's license.

Went skydiving. Loved it so much I did it again. And plan on doing it again, soon!

Edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)

I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and I really did get in excellent shape.

Looking good made a world of difference to me. I then found a work out partner and began socializing after the work outs.

Saw a therapist and for some months, went on ADs.

Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it a lot).

Joined the Officer's Wives club after 15 years of active duty.

(Wish I had joined sooner! Met two women who are life long friends to this day.)

Joined a writer's group

Took a class in Conversational French --(( Maybe YOU can tutor or teach German, AND OR take another English class? ))

Took a class in Italian cooking

There is more, but I just wanted to suggest to you a few things you can do that do not cost a lot.

Other than skydiving & pilot training, most of these ^^ activities were free, or quite cheap.

Later, I went on a serious trip with my children, and it proved how much fun and how many adventures we could have, with or without their dad.

Hope this helps.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
C
Complex Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
Wonder when you are going to get annoyed 25yr, a) for telling me the same things over and over again b) for me thanking you for it!

Thanks for the very structured response and advice.

So W told me at BD that she had feelings for that guy. I busted out in tears etc. she wanted to try to save our M. It didn't click again between us. Felt forced. We didn't get outside help. I was devastated and didn't make the changes I had to.
I asked W 2-3 times if OM is still in the picture. And she lied to me and said no, or stretched it somehow like, 'that's not the real issue here, I see him at work, that's it'.

Wow, when I think about it now. Everything is coming together. I was delusional. And ya of course when she 'had enough' and we separated she went to OM right away and told him and they bonded.
I need to share this new insight with my DB coach and my therapist next week. Like you said I don't have to agree with what my wife did..but after all I really understand her feelings. I don't think I have all along.

But eventually I have to forgive myself for my mistakes. I'm too hard on myself. DB coach told me that too. There's only one way and that is forward.

What do you mean by scorecard? I know I always blame, keep score who is doing what wrong or right etc. big complaint by my wife too.

I mean right now I'm completely over talking with her about anything. I'm just doing my thing and DB for as long as I need to. Is there a point when she maybe opens up again where I have a chance to truly tell her that I screwed up and totally understand what happened, and that I'm sorry...and how do I identify that point? I mean I did that already but it lost its value through too much talking and no deep understanding. Right now it doesn't matter I KNOW,..see I KNOW...I don't even know why I'm asking then. Too focused on the IFs still.

Family, what do you mean by non-factor? Relevant about them is a) they will be very sad to see me go b) I don't want to "cut" them out of my life, but it's HER family and I don't want to offend her. To at least a couple of cousins I have a very good friendship that will last. So what does DB say? Let them completely go? That wouldn't feel right. Of course I have to treat them with the utmost of respect and not interfere with anything my W is doing!?


Staying on my path. I knew it's not going to be easy, so I have to stop complaining! I have a therapist appointment on Monday. I'm curious what her approach is. It's through Kaiser Permanente, she seems to be a very legit pro marriage family counselor on the Christian side.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
C
Complex Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
My GAL so far:
- gym 2-3 times a week. Getting fit and (even) better looking wink
- 2 college classes (7 credits) - English and humanities
- meet with friends
- therapy

More next 1-3 weeks:
- eat better and more (diet to gain muscle)
- find a volunteer opportunity (googling already)
- talk to a priest, confess, find some more faith
- go party in LA
- buy new shoes
- maybe find a lawyer to get some legal advise (not sure if that's a good idea yet, GC won't be an issue, but if it gets to D it might get complicated (property, gathered money together, support for school, eventual hardship for me, health insurance, etc.)
- find a small job/volunteer something with high school kids
- learn how to teach/tutoring german

Not sure what I can do to really socialize with many people. Gotta think...


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 1
Complex,

Obviously, it's not easy to be in our position. It's more motions than we were built to absorb sometimes. The mix of despair and hopes, ups and down, love and anger, self-pity and resentment.

It seems to me that the most useful thing you could do now is to calm down. You come across as very frantic. You repeat the same things over and over again. You jump to conclusions regularly. You panic over minute details as if your M depended on one discussion.

Take a step back and realize that this is a marathon. You say you have two months left before you get your green card or before she leaves. Well, your sitch is going to take much longer than this. Almost all successful sitches do. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

I think this has all been said to you before. I'm guessing that it is against your nature to calm down, so that it probably played a part in your sitch. This is an opportunity for you to develop a certain emotional maturity. You need to come off as stronger. Sometimes, it does involve hiding your fears and feelings in favor of acting the right thing. James Bond may jump from a train with apparent confidence, but I'm sure if we heard his internal dialogue, it would sound like : "Omg, is this the end?? - I don't recall jumping that far - it's so windy, will I make it?? -- guys, can anyone help with this?? - why is it always me?? - oh no, I don't want to die like this after all I've been through!!" Externalizing and focusing on this is self-defeating. Start acting as if you were confident, mature and strong. Fake it til you make/become it.

This will change a lot of things in your sitch, including how attractive you are. It will give you a clear head and a sense of perspective on what really matters. It will be a guide on how you should act around your W and other people related to the sitch. It will give you some inner peace and focus on what really matters.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
C
Complex Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
Ok. So I'll just become James Bond, got it wink
You are right I do have control issues and also problems to deal with things mature. I mean I am not letting myself go around my W anymore, good start. But then I cry myself out here and when she's gone. I have to LIVE DBing. I have to become the better person, stay true to myself. And if necessary fake it until I make it.

Since it's an in-home separation, does anyone have advice how to deal with W, how to interact with her around the house?

And maybe there's someone here with experience how to postpone/stretch rash decisions regarding the D. For now I got a couple of months. But even the GC application. I could file NOW, but I got 85 days to turn it in, and I'd rather stretch it a bit, but she might get annoyed and angry if I do.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,257
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,257
Originally Posted By: Complex
Ok. So I'll just become James Bond, got it wink
You are right I do have control issues and also problems to deal with things mature. I mean I am not letting myself go around my W anymore, good start. But then I cry myself out here and when she's gone. I have to LIVE DBing. I have to become the better person, stay true to myself. And if necessary fake it until I make it.

Since it's an in-home separation, does anyone have advice how to deal with W, how to interact with her around the house?

And maybe there's someone here with experience how to postpone/stretch rash decisions regarding the D. For now I got a couple of months. But even the GC application. I could file NOW, but I got 85 days to turn it in, and I'd rather stretch it a bit, but she might get annoyed and angry if I do.


85 days is a great period to get a GAL program running.

Maybe you do not need to be a "better" person. Maybe some things about your personality and appearance can be more attractive though.

I think that is what it is. People are attracted to people who are motivated about things in their life and are having success. They don't know why but are.

Also fashion and grooming, know what looks good on you and do it.

Physical conditioning should be very well.

Probably won't get that wife back, but you will easily be able to get the access of half a dozen new paramours after her.

If you have a chance with the WAS this is what you have to do anyway. You have to live without her and she has to know it, that you can and will be perfect without her.

Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11

Moderated by  Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard