Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 9 of 10 1 2 7 8 9 10
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 942
W
Wet Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 942
Originally Posted By: Mach1
I would ask then....

IF...SHE is the one in crisis...

Why do you allow her to dictate to you, what your future is ??

You seem paralyzed by fear, of whether this will "work" out or not.

And is totally affecting your answer about how you see your life, and future...


What is it, exactly...that YOU are facing ???

What senses, exactly, are YOU hoping that SHE comes to ???

You still sound quite a bit superior, and judgmental towards her and her choices.

Would YOU wanna come back to that ??

And I agree with Kat, you have given almost every bit of power, to your spouse. She holds the key on how high you jump, how you respond, how you interact, how you parent your children, etc...

Why ???


Hi Mach, thank you for your thoughts. Let me start by suggesting you are off on your charge that I am acting "judgmental". Let's make sure we are on the same page of what being "judgmental" looks like. Here is one definition:

being intolerant, lacking compassion and objectivity.

So, I mention that my W is confused (she is not signing the divorce papers I gave to her, and is not making any move toward working on our marriage), and this seems like a pretty "objective" observation by me.

Let me add that when I had dinner with d18 and d17 over the weekend that W has turned down a job on the grounds that she could not be "passionate" about it. Now W is making some money as a photographer, but our daughters observed that it is not enough work to pay the rent. I don't think my saying W is "confused" is a judgmental statement, and instead is a clear observation.

You also ask "what senses do I hope she comes to"? When a W in a marriage of 22 years with 4 children walks out without ultimatum or effort on counseling this doesn't make sense to me.

A W who is on dating sites while married and recently was on dates most nights, also does not make sense to me. No judgment here, I am merely reporting to make a point. And a W who is the primary caretaker for 2 of our children, without steady money coming in, and actually turns down a job, again doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not saying that W coming back to our marriage would be "coming to her senses." Leaving marriages happens all the time in our world today, and she is an adult capable of making this decision. And this is out of my control. Instead, I am hoping that she come back to her senses on her being able to support herself, and comes back to make our children a priority in her life.

Next, you and Kat say that by my using this time as a "gift", and working on myself and enjoying my time with the children, that this somehow means that I am giving "every bit of power" to my W. Again, I disagree. I trust in the DB system. I trust that my W's mid-life crisis with time and patience that she can work on herself, and this may be someone I would want to have a r with. And if it is for the good of my family, I can be a little more patient.

Patience is not weakness on my part. Today I choose to not divorce my W.

Last edited by Wet; 03/03/15 10:50 PM.

Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,326
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,326
What I am saying but perhaps not typing is that you are laying how this relationship goes at her feet. You aren't giving any sort of consequences for her intolerable actions. I don't believe she is confused, she doesn't know how to take care of herself or her kids and she is looking for Mr. Moneybags to take care of her.

At that point I suppose she will be gone. You ask about her coming back to you when she comes to her senses but the question you really need to be asking is why on earth would you want her, even if she comes back. You are a great guy and you need to think better of yourself than thinking you need to accept her breadcrumbs.

I have been there. I am only trying to get you to see what you are doing by letting her decide how this relationship goes. Gee I had even told my ex they could still be friends if he would stay. I lost all self respect. I mean really, if the scum of the Earth didnt want me,who would?

Well, I tell you what, he is out there, he just doesn't know he is looking for me yet. smile. It only took six years to get there.

kat


Me-53(and learning!)
S24, S21, D18, D17
Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,687
Likes: 236
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,687
Likes: 236
Originally Posted By: Wet
Patience is not weakness on my part. Today I choose to not divorce my W.



Wait....

Originally Posted By: Wet
So, I mention that my W is confused (she is not signing the divorce papers I gave to her, and is not making any move toward working on our marriage), and this seems like a pretty "objective" observation by me.


Yes, you DID choose to Divorce her, according to YOUR words above...








Shall I go on ???

Originally Posted By: Wet
Next, you and Kat say that by my using this time as a "gift", and working on myself and enjoying my time with the children, that this somehow means that I am giving "every bit of power" to my W. Again, I disagree. I trust in the DB system. I trust that my W's mid-life crisis with time and patience that she can work on herself, and this may be someone I would want to have a r with. And if it is for the good of my family, I can be a little more patient.


You are, and you are very against seeing it.

When your thoughts, conversations and words are focused on her, then you hold zero power over moving forward with your life. You stay stuck in that rut which determines the outcome of your marriage. You let your marriage define who YOU are, and it consumes you from the inside.

You become defined more about what happened to you,rather than how you came through it.

The other day, your emotions (hope?) flipped when you talked to an old friend, because he had spoken to your spouse, you spent an evening with your Daughters, talking about your spouses decisions, or lack thereof. There has to be a better way to spend an evening with your Daughters...

This process has consumed you, THAT is what we are saying to you.

And when you have little power, or conviction or even the want, to define your own path ? You have given your power away.

You accept mediocrity for your future, to be this or that for everyone else around you, except what YOU want.

I see you standing for your marriage, and I admire that. What you aren't getting though, is that standing, doesn't mean standing still. Standing doesn't mean simply playing a waiting game, while your spouse decides what she wants to do.

Standing is about bettering your decisions, seeing your ineffective qualities that you don't like about yourself, upgrading your toolbox of relationship tools. So that one day, IF your spouse decides to turn around and look in your direction, you have the tools in place to make that decision.

It isn't simply playing the waiting game. Commiserating about what once was.

Originally Posted By: Wet
Let's make sure we are on the same page of what being "judgmental" looks like. Here is one definition:


being intolerant, lacking compassion and objectivity.



Here is another...

of or denoting an attitude in which judgments about other people's conduct are made

and another...

Making moral assumptions about another person's behavior.

Another ???

Criticize or condemn someone from a position of assumed moral superiority.


Your move counselor...



Originally Posted By: Wet
I trust in the DB system.


I don't see it that way. You trust the system that allows you to keep your head in the sand, and do nothing regarding YOUR future.

If you fully trusted the system, then you wouldn't fight the hard questions, and argue your point when they are asked.

Nobody is telling you to divorce her, or walk away from her. They are telling you to move forward, and have some plans in place for yourself, and to stop living in your self-imposed limbo.

You are choosing this limbo, and you can choose to end it as well.

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 942
W
Wet Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 942
Thank you Mach and Kat for wanting me to be a healthier Wet and to move forward with my life. Not just standing still. And not to bury my head in the sand to my sitch. I appreciate the advice.

First, I want to clear up the confusion about the non-status of our divorce. About a year ago, my W let me know she was dating other men. I gave her a stipulated divorce agreement, and told her she would not date other men and be married to me (this was pre-DB). But she never signed the Stipulation, and so there is no pending divorce court file. When I say that I could start the divorce, I only mean that I can serve on her the Divorce Summons and Complaint, which will start our divorce action, which I have not yet done.

With the help DB and others on this Board, I am moving forward. Here is what I’m doing to move forward with my life:

- 1st my children - My s13 is the most important person in my world right now. W is not being a good parent to him (no judgment, just a personal observation confirmed by his sisters). And so, I will try and have primary custody of him starting this summer, and hopefully during the next school year starting in the fall.

- My d18 is away at school, and d17 will leave for school in the fall. Staying in contact with them, and helping them when I can is what I can do now for them;

- D20 who lives with me has 2 jobs and is going to school. Keeping a roof over her head for as long as she wants is also a priority for me.

- 2nd is my health – I have lost 75 pounds. I have had 2 surgeries over the past 3 months (1 serious, 1 minor). I continue to make sure I stay in good health.

- My spiritual and emotional health is also a priority for me. I have a healthy prayer life and I love studying the Bible. I attend a weekly men’s breakfast Bible Study. I also attend a weekly Divorce Care group at my church. And the help from DB and this Board is also a big part of the help that I receive. Finding a place to volunteer isa goal for me in the future.

Perhaps you are correct that I see my life as being defined by what has happened. But I feel that I am handling this well around my children. My oldest 2 kids have said several times “how proud they are of me.” Awwww. blush I feel good about the example I am setting for my children and to others in my life, in moving on with my life and not being consumed about my W or my separation.

You are correct in also saying that I am recently talking more about my W in my posts here. The illness and death of my MiL has led me to having more contact with my W. I am providing support to my W thru this as it is hitting her hard. But again I think this is a normal and healthy response.

Now my battle is going thru the visitation tomorrow night and funeral of my MiL on Saturday. Thanks for your suggestions and advice.

Last edited by Wet; 03/05/15 02:04 AM.

Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,249
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,249
Hi Wet. I have been reading your recent posts. I don't know all the history, so forgive my ignorance.

I understand the confusion. It can become quite challenging.. trying to db and find ourselves, understand MLC, standing.... all the above become very hazy at times. For me, I have made some major mistakes. Big time. Things I have to forgive myself for.. on top of everything else. Things can become quite overwhelming, and it seems that advice and things we read are conflicting.

Anyway, I understand where you are coming from. Yet, having made mistakes, finding my way currently, and learning some serious lessons, I understand what those above are saying.

To me, I'd be confuse, but that's because I'm a SLOW learner! But, honestly.. the biggest mistake I made was not TOTALLY letting go. I had dropped the rope, so to say. I didn't think my h was coming back. But I was acutely aware of his sitch and his mistakes, too. That left a small opening of wondering how much he'd regret.

Anyway... I was moving on. But, as much as I thought I had dropped everything... I hadn't. Because I couldn't make sense of what had happened. I needed some sort of clarification, explanation, closure, or something.

Now, what I realize, is that I needed to totally kill what was left for there to be anything left. That may not make sense.. but I felt like when he came back.. he needed to explain everything.. like if it had just happened. And yet I had changed, and expected him to understand that. He had also changed, but expected to jump right in where we had left off.

Total cluster f, huh? Well... it was. And it is no more. What would have been best? If I had been able to put it to rest. Maybe in the future addressed it. But with the absolute understanding that what was... was not.

He had checked out. As much as we were still attached.. he HAD reached a point, at some point, of being detached from me. I hadn't done that- totally.

Just be careful. Where there is attachment... of the "old" r, there is expectations of some sort... of the same dynamic and explanation.

Maybe this makes no sense. That's probably bc it's very difficult and complex. Yet, as simple as saying... let it go. Seems easy enough, and when we think we have... there is a chance we haven't. Letting it go means the dynamic has totally changed. Expectations have changed. Communication has changed.

Keep your head up, Wet. You will get there. It's just a long, hard road. But, I anticipate, one worthy of traveling. With not much choice!

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 942
W
Wet Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 942
Hi Mighty, thanks for your comments. It looks like we both came to the board at about the same time June-July 2014. How much your spouse regrets? Yeah, I'm still wondering on that as well. You've given me some helpful things to think about.

It seems you are a lot farther along at this than I am. Thanks again.


Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,807
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,807
I agree that I constantly seek answers on why my WAW did this - why did she blow up our family? I've still never received one clear answer and her answers shift all the time.

Now I realize that her answers don't matter, she left, she chose her AP. It's been 6 months and I don't want to keep talking about it every time we meet. That part is over. I am trying so hard to drop the rope and detach.

Work in progress. Mighty your post was excellent and gave me a lot to think about as well.


Was made a better person by DB'ers
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,326
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,326
I don't think most of the left behind spices will ever get an answer. All I wanted to know was that our marriage meant something.

We do so much work on ourselves while they are away, hopefully for our own sanity and not for them. We expect that they will see the errors of their ways and change themselves. They really don't, they don't think they did anything wrong, what work is to be done??

So if they do come back, there is often a lot of anger that finally boils up on our end. Nothing easy peassy about putting the marriage back together again. The only relationships that I have seen make it are the ones where the left behind spouse totally dropped the rope and were moving on. The odds aren't great then either but again, after nearly seven years on here it is what I have seen.

No reason to not have hope, just a reason to live for you and your kids and move on.

kat


Me-53(and learning!)
S24, S21, D18, D17
Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,326
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,326
Please forgive my typos or auto correct faux pas. I was really exhausted from staying up watching KU basketball Tuesday night. smile

kat


Me-53(and learning!)
S24, S21, D18, D17
Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 942
W
Wet Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 942
Thanks Foolish and Kat. Kat you never have to apologize with me. I am just glad for the time you spend here and sharing your thoughts.

A couple of notes - I spoke with my W earlier this week. She is putting together all the photos, scanning etc. (I texted her "You're doing the work of 12 women". Then I texted her right back and said "sorry for the sexist comment. It should be the work of 12 people." W texted right back saying "it wasn't sexist at all. Everyone knows women do all of the work."

When we spoke, W told me that she cannot afford her 3 bedroom condo, and with d17 going away to college in the fall, that she wants me to move into her condo. W will move out and find a cheap place (a few hundred bucks a month. Good luck with that.) And by doing this, s13 can go to the same school, and I would have him for the week. W is having a tough time parenting s13, and it seems to go much smoother when he is with me. I told her we can talk about this after the funeral on Saturday.

Second, in the funeral notice for MiL, the 8 daughters were listed, and all of the brothers-in-laws were listed, except for me. I am upset by this b/c I had a very close relationship with MiL. And the only reasons for leaving me off are hurtful. But this is a time for having thick skin about things like this. I will not bring it up to anyone in her family - but my Mom mentioned it when we had lunch together today. It is out of my control, and it is nothing I will dwell on.

I will take s13 and d17 out shopping later this afternoon to get some appropriate clothes for them. We'll have a quick bite, and then the Visitation is tonight. Lord give me strength.

Last edited by Wet; 03/05/15 08:43 PM.

Me-54 yrs; W: 50 yrs
4 kids- D: 22,20,19; S:15
"Trial" Divorce: 04/14 - 6/14
Separated: 06/2013- divorced 08/2016

“The strongest of all warriors are these two — Time and Patience.” War and Peace
Page 9 of 10 1 2 7 8 9 10

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard