I don't even know where to start, but i'll try to make it short. Wife and I have been married for 11 years, together for 15. We started out great, the problems started creeping in about 6 years ago after her mom died of cancer.
This is where I take full blame, I don't handle death well, and I lacked the tools necessary to deal with it and also to comfort others. That being said, within a few months of her mom's passing, she turned on me. Looking back, she was full of anger about her mom and i was the punching bag but I had my own issues going on at the time and I handled it very badly to the point where I spent a few months sleeping in another bedroom.
We eventually reconciled after a few months and life moved on. Although we still had occasional moments of her reminding me that she was unhappy or something similar. We eventually relocated to a different state and it seemed like for some reason that kicked it all off again, within a few months of moving she told me she was ready for a divorce. This was in 2012. This is the point where she would bring up being unhappy, I'd do my best to try and convince her we COULD fix things, and then the issues would slip to the background. This is also a major mistake, instead of fully addressing our problems I would hope and pray for the next day when they would be "forgotten" and i wouldn't bring it back up for fear of having to deal with it again.
So fast forward to last month, she found a new job that turned out to be extremely stressful but she stuck with it. There was a ton of stress involved though including hating her new manager. At the same time, our 12 year old dog died suddenly. I'm not sure what role stress plays in stuff like this but i'm sure it did in this case because we started "swirling the bowl" at this same point.
So fast forward to a few days ago. I get an email from her that she's going to spend a few nights in a hotel and that she wants a divorce. She can't be happy, and she can't make me happy. Basically that it's a lost cause. She said she'd call or email in a few days to give me time to think (she still hasn't, it's been 48 hours and counting).
Now, after reading the above it may sound like we had a horrible marriage. We didn't until recently and even though we had bad days we also had good days. She just decided to push me away. I love her more than words can say, but she just has underlying issues with love thanks to a shitty childhood including...you guessed it...divorce.
Another issue is that she has NO ONE in her life that's in a healthy married relationship. Her aunts are all divorced, her uncles are divorced, her best friend was never married. So she has NO ONE to talk to that would actually give her decent advice about marriage and fighting for love. If anything her aunts are the "i am woman, here me roar" types that don't need men in their lives.
Sorry for rambling on, right now i'm alone, feel discarded, the love of my life is gone, and i just see such a bleak future. As much as i plan on fighting to get her back, she's so headstrong that I doubt it will happen. The other bad thing is that this is such a bad decision for her, without even factoring in my feelings. She's only making a pittance, has no insurance, she wants to "be alone" but i don't even think she realizes how old that gets in a relatively short time and how much work it will be where we live. There's no other man, she just wants "happiness" and thinks that being alone with a crap job will somehow give her that. Not to mention she has a husband that loves her so much he would do anything for her....aside from let her go
All i want is for her to see me in a different light, accept my love, and give me a chance to prove that I can make her happy. Having things out of my control is just such a horrific feeling and the thoughts of being without her has made me literally sick. I can't even eat right now.
Sorry for rambling and thanks for listening, it means the world to me
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
I remember coming here a month ago, feeling as you did, basically wanting guidance to the confusion and pain going on, and I wanted it right away.
Listen to Mach1, I too basically got the same advice.
Start with DB/DR.
What really helped me interpret DB & DR to my own situation was the coaching. Not trying to sell you anything just relaying my own positive experiences with it.
I found the forum a great place to vent, receive support, and get feedback on events.
I personally found it hard to hear "hang in there" or "take it day by day" when I was desperate for answers. But, in time, a course of action will form.
So sorry, Frank...the lack of control over one of the most important parts of your life, and the hurt really is gut wrenching but please do try to get some nutrition and sleep, take care of yourself. I know that seems like it may require more energy than you have, (I was there eight weeks ago) but you know what they say about the oxygen mask - has to go on you, first, before you can help anyone else.
I can relate to what you describe, and Michelle's article on this site, about 'where were you when I needed you.' I also avoided confronting problems in my marriage...generally, b/c I wanted to minimize them. My H spent all year pushing me further and further away...and one day there was a stress that sent him over. Despite limited income, the most important thing he says to me now is that he has to find himself, prove he can be independent, and protect himself from more pain which initially translated to giving up on me.
Sounds like your wife is also hurting, unhappy, and angry. If you haven't read DR, start there. I've also found Non violent communication by Rosenberg on youtube very good for opening my mind and heart to what was happening.
Give her the space first and your best unconditional friendship, empathy, support, when you get the chance, without trying to pull her back into a place she's decided is no good for her. Seek to understand her and connect with her when you get the chance and when she is open to it. Try to use this time to understand really what she needed from you, or where your changes need to start. Really try to feel it from her point of view. Trust me, telling them you'll do anything to make them happy doesn't go well - the first question is "then why didn't you?" and the second thing they're thinking is "you can't be a whole other person." When you do talk with her, whatever is said, try not to argue with how she feels or tell her how unhappy she'll be without you, protest or be combative in any way (even if it feels like you're fighting for your marriage) - show her you are listening like you've never listened before. This is the truest way you can show her how much she means to you right now. *It may take some time before she will be ready to open up, too.
Hang in there. One day at a time, be as good to yourself as you can be.
Mid 30's Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH D 9/15; NC forever on
Thanks everyone. I did order the books from amazon, hopefully i'll have them in a day or two.
I emailed her 2 really long, heart felt emails a few days ago. She replied last night just to acknowledge that she read them and thanking me for the thoughts and she'll reply "in a few days" because hse's not ready yet. I think the hardest thing is that the night before she left, she brought my home a milkshake, we laughed and everything seemed "fine" and then the next day i get this email.
I'm trying hard not to be angry but her tactics are really hurtful. I understand wanting to email, because I also do much better in written form. I'm able to gather my thoughts together and type something coherent instead of a face to face, emotionally charged exchange which would be much less helpful. I just wish she would have sent it and come home, or even just come home the next day. At this point i have no idea when she'll be home, it's been coming on 3 full days since she left and in her email this morning she said it would be a few more days.
Anyway, I replied to her email with another pretty long email telling her i'm sorry for everything, i acknowledge her issues (i really do) but I also think that nothing is irreconcilable. I tried my best to make sure no blame was placed on her and that I accept full responsibility while also just trying to convey that the grass isn't always greener. We'll see what happens. I have been in a constant 4 day panic attack at this point. i felt a little better this morning that she at least replied but being left in limbo is really doing a number on me and my stress levels.
As dumb as this sounds, i really can't imagine life without her. We really did grow up together and the thought of her not in my life kills me. Just thinking about it makes me so sad and even sadder that she can just remove me from her life
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Hi Frank, I'm new here as well and I'm still learning my way around things. It sounds really awful, I'm so sorry you're going through this too. It really hurts so much in the beginning. I'm still learning everything but if I could give you any advice it would be to not write any more emails. After my H dropped the bomb I had the same reaction - wrote 2 long emails (8000+ words!). I express myself better in writing and there was so much I wanted to get out. I pleaded and begged in the emails, tried to remind him of the good times etc., insisted we should try and work things out. He never replied. Even so, I still sent another long email a few weeks later when he went to visit his family - that one he didn't even acknowledge! Now having read DR I see that was the worst thing I could have done.. Once you read the books you'll see the technique recommended is to not push/try to convince. I know it's really hard especially when you're completely in shock and it feels counterintuitive but the best thing is to not contact her.
I don't know if it will help you, but after my H told me (and I sent the emails) he went away for the weekend and I invited my friends over and spent several days with them going over everything. It really helped me to get all my thoughts out, but not vent them at him. Or you can start a journal, just to get everything out, but not share with her? Good luck.
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
It's totally understandable, Frank. It feels to me like a part of my life turned on me and abandoned me. Like my left arm suddenly decided it didn't want to be part of my body anymore.
Try to back off for the next few days - if you've poured your heart out, anything else is going to push her away. Get out with friends and talk to people if you can. Remember that she isn't trying to hurt you, and for her this is just all about her right now. Try to find a few things that bring you peace and happiness right now - a walk in nature, fishing, whatever it is - I know it sounds absurd but it's much more productive (in all kinds of ways) then the panic if you can force yourself to do it.
Mid 30's Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH D 9/15; NC forever on
It's totally understandable, Frank. It feels to me like a part of my life turned on me and abandoned me. Like my left arm suddenly decided it didn't want to be part of my body anymore.
Try to back off for the next few days - if you've poured your heart out, anything else is going to push her away. Get out with friends and talk to people if you can. Remember that she isn't trying to hurt you, and for her this is just all about her right now. Try to find a few things that bring you peace and happiness right now - a walk in nature, fishing, whatever it is - I know it sounds absurd but it's much more productive (in all kinds of ways) then the panic if you can force yourself to do it.
Thanks, part of our issue is that we live in the middle of nowhere (really). No neighbors, no real friends here. We're both introverts anyway so it was never an issue. Part of the reason for moving here was to escape corporate life. I don't think that had any sort of involvement here though other than maybe just forcing us to finally deal with these issues.
I work from home too so i sit here all day trying to get things done and it's just a constant bombardment of thoughts and memories. I haven't tried calling her or anything, the only thing i've done is write 3 emails since she left.
Oh and today I logged in to pay credit card bills. I never pay attention to finances, i just always left it up to her. Well this morning i noticed that the day before she left she took half of our savings and deposited into a new account and also that none of her paychecks have gone into our joint account for the last year. So now i feel even more betrayed and this is probably one of the reasons she's laying low. This is TOTALLY unlike her, she's in crisis mode or something. I mean, we didn't have a big blow up before all of this. There's no confrontations of any kind. She didn't even bring up being unhappy for months....she just up and left along with half of our money. I'm not even going to bring it up with her right now because it's not worth it right now. It's just so sad right now that someone you trusted your life with can just turn on you like that NOT having a good morning right now.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Wow. You've read Michelle's article on the WAW, right? The escape plan...I'm so sorry. I know this probably hit hard when you didn't think anything could get worse. Deceit of any kind is heart breaking.
A year ago in the middle of a fight, my H said something along the lines of 'well, I'm not trying to divorce you just yet'...we said a lot of terrible things when we fought, but that sticks out...he claims his turning point was in Nov, but I think he's been chewing on his unhappiness for a lot longer.
Get out around people. Even if you're an introvert. Today, somehow, immediately. My BD shortly before Thanksgiving so I was stuck at home in my head, crying, pacing, starving, upside down and miserable for four days - and it was amazing, when I finally got out of the house and interacted with another human being or two, the world looked a whole lot different, more reasonable, sane, like things would be ok. People matter. Call an old friend or family member that can be there for you. You'll still cry for days, but try to find someone you can laugh with, too.
Keep your dignity. No one really deserves to be left like this. It helps me to remember that H and I actually are separate people...that his choices are not a reflection of me or my character, but his. Remember you are worth loving, and her actions aren't evidence to the contrary as much as it feels otherwise.
I got nothing on the constant thoughts front. I'm battling it still, 8-9 weeks later. I'm so used to thinking my way around and through everything...it doesn't help in this situation a whole lot to think your way through feelings I guess.
But as often as I can, I try to adjust to the reality of what is happening. And tell myself cold, hard truths about it to force the adjustment, over and over again to chase out the past that is out of reach: 'My H doesn't want to be in this R anymore, this is how he is looking at it. I may be divorced before the end of the year. There is happiness ahead, even so.' I've gone back to the angry texts and insults to see exactly what was there instead of the romantic versions that keep trying to crop up in my head. Every once in a while I imagine if he came home...what would my worries be then, what are my angry, betrayed feelings then? How secure could I ever be?
Somewhere on this board they recommended the Stockdale Paradox as a reference for dealing with this. I found it helpful. Also an app called HeadSpace - at least for ten minutes at a time not to have the intrusive thoughts, but some peace.
You will be a little stronger each week.
Mid 30's Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH D 9/15; NC forever on
What were the other problems that she would bring up that you swept under the rug? I understand you were afraid, but you can obviously see that didn't help.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Wow. You've read Michelle's article on the WAW, right? The escape plan...I'm so sorry. I know this probably hit hard when you didn't think anything could get worse. Deceit of any kind is heart breaking.
A year ago in the middle of a fight, my H said something along the lines of 'well, I'm not trying to divorce you just yet'...we said a lot of terrible things when we fought, but that sticks out...he claims his turning point was in Nov, but I think he's been chewing on his unhappiness for a lot longer.
Get out around people. Even if you're an introvert. Today, somehow, immediately. My BD shortly before Thanksgiving so I was stuck at home in my head, crying, pacing, starving, upside down and miserable for four days - and it was amazing, when I finally got out of the house and interacted with another human being or two, the world looked a whole lot different, more reasonable, sane, like things would be ok. People matter. Call an old friend or family member that can be there for you. You'll still cry for days, but try to find someone you can laugh with, too.
Keep your dignity. No one really deserves to be left like this. It helps me to remember that H and I actually are separate people...that his choices are not a reflection of me or my character, but his. Remember you are worth loving, and her actions aren't evidence to the contrary as much as it feels otherwise.
I got nothing on the constant thoughts front. I'm battling it still, 8-9 weeks later. I'm so used to thinking my way around and through everything...it doesn't help in this situation a whole lot to think your way through feelings I guess.
But as often as I can, I try to adjust to the reality of what is happening. And tell myself cold, hard truths about it to force the adjustment, over and over again to chase out the past that is out of reach: 'My H doesn't want to be in this R anymore, this is how he is looking at it. I may be divorced before the end of the year. There is happiness ahead, even so.' I've gone back to the angry texts and insults to see exactly what was there instead of the romantic versions that keep trying to crop up in my head. Every once in a while I imagine if he came home...what would my worries be then, what are my angry, betrayed feelings then? How secure could I ever be?
Somewhere on this board they recommended the Stockdale Paradox as a reference for dealing with this. I found it helpful. Also an app called HeadSpace - at least for ten minutes at a time not to have the intrusive thoughts, but some peace.
You will be a little stronger each week.
I think the biggest thing for me is how different she's acting, like it isn't her. Almost like she had to adopt a different personality to go through with this. Her "dear frank" email to me started out so impersonal it was gut wrenching.
Also we were never mean or hurtful to each other, she may have been unhappy but there was never personal attacks.
Right now i can't even wrap my head around this or the future. I know i have to, i just can't. One of my flaws is being negative (i call it a realist) and she always disliked that about me. Recently i've started trying to be positive and started reading on the power of positive thinking and that's where i'm at right now. Is that the wrong thing to do? I don't know, at worst it will just make me sadder in the long run.
Thanks for the personal anecdotes and things to search for, i'll look into them today.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
What were the other problems that she would bring up that you swept under the rug? I understand you were afraid, but you can obviously see that didn't help.
It all centered around first her mom dying and me not being there. I have apologized for this 10000 times over the last few years. She has issues with forgiving and forgetting, she still brings up minute issues from 10+ years ago so that is always a huge impediment. She had a crappy childhood (parents divorced when she was like 3 and her dad pretty much disappeared) so i think that plays a lot into her forgiving/forgetting.
Aside from that, i haven't swept anything under the rug...just recurrent bouts of "unhappiness" and like i said it always would come during periods of other stress in her life and she would confront me about it but it was never from a position of "i'm unhappy, can you help?" it was always just very negative "i'm unhappy there's nothing you can do". But then a day or two later we would act like nothing was wrong and that was just the dumbest thing we could have ever done. I just am conflict adverse, so it was easier to just let a few days pass and hope things eased back instead of confronting the issues head on.
I realize i haven't been a great husband and i realize i have many short-comings but from my POV our marriage should have never gotten to this point. From the outside looking in, i can't understand how someone can have a spouse that loves them so much, so unconditionally and just shut them off. It seems like anyone should want a partner like that, but she's just walled me out of her heart
I almost feel partially like a scapegoat for ALL of her problems. Like she can't remove stresses that originate outside of the house so she just concentrates on the one stress that she can get rid of (me). She's very stubborn and contrary, so i can't even try to discuss things like this with her because she gets so defensive. And since it's coming from me, she ignores it. Whereas if an aunt told her any of this she might have took it onboard
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
As much as i plan on fighting to get her back, she's so headstrong that I doubt it will happen.
Do you have a plan on how to "fight" to get her back?
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All i want is for her to see me in a different light, accept my love, and give me a chance to prove that I can make her happy. Having things out of my control is just such a horrific feeling and the thoughts of being without her has made me literally sick. I can't even eat right now.
One of the first things we learn in Divorce Busting is that we cannot control the other person. That goes especially true for out spouses. Most of us discover we are more of a controller than we even realized.
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Not to mention she has a husband that loves her so much he would do anything for her....aside from let her go.
So maybe you are a stubborn, also? I know you don't want to even think about letting her go, but please start accepting the fact that we cannot make another person love us, if they don't want to. And why would you want to be with someone who doesn't love you just as much as you love her? Think about it, Frank. Life is too short.
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I emailed her 2 really long, heart felt emails a few days ago. She replied last night just to acknowledge that she read them and thanking me for the thoughts and she'll reply "in a few days" because hse's not ready yet. I think the hardest thing is that the night before she left, she brought my home a milkshake, we laughed and everything seemed "fine" and then the next day i get this email.
Strange how things can turn around in a relationship. Remember in your first post where you admitted whenever she would try to discuss certain things you would hope it would be "forgotten" the next day and then you would never bring the subject back up? Do you realize how disrespectful, rude, cold, and uncaring that is for a H do think that about the one who is vowed to cherish her forever? So now, the tables have turned and you are getting antsy that she is putting on hold what you want to discuss now? Hummmmm
Frank, I am a former WAW, and a lot of what I may say will be with the hopes of giving you that viewpoint from your W. However, I think I can speak for most women when I tell you that putting her feelings and concerns on the shelf, hoping it wouldn't come again....is extremely painful to a W. It took years for her to get to the place she's at now, and she has changed. She is no longer the same woman you married. Do you get it? What you thought worked in the past is not going to get it done now. Nothing may work, IDK. We can tell you what your best shot will be, but you will be the one to have to get it through your head.
This woman has suffered, and is still suffering, and she may believe you are a great source of it. Again, IDK, but I know she has decided she is through with you for a reason. My first thought is that your behavior toward her has caused her to feel a lot of pain. Justified or not, she is blaming you for part of her unhappiness. Even though you tried to apologize and take 100% blame, I think you will discover that it just isn't enough at this time. In other words, it is going to take much, much more for her to be able to return a relationship she believes is doomed. And, the more you try to talk to her, convincing her it can work....the more you are pushing her further away. Please believe me. You will not be able to talk yourself out of this situation. Talking will not work now.
You need a plan. What can you do if talking is out of the picture? What can you do if you can't control her? What do you see as not ever letting her go? What do you see as fighting for this M? When you get real, what can you do about how she feels? What can you do if she divorces you?
I am not asking these questions to be hateful or hurtful, b/c I realize you must be in terrible pain and frustrated to come to this board and try to express what you have shared. I ask these questions to get you to think, maybe a little differently than you first started out.
Trying to persuade her to listen to what you say is, in a sense, trying to control her decisions. Ever thought about it? We all do it, unless it's one or two who have learned better. And, you will learn, too, Frank. It takes time to grasp all of this. DBing is a new way of thinking and acting.
Hope you will come back and post often. I believe you can have a new MR with your W.
Oh btw, I am still with my H, and this board deserves a lot of credit for my M surviving.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I second Zelda09's suggestion of HeadSpace. Exercise has also helped me, especially yoga.
Do you have any close friends or family you could go visit for the weekend? I'm fairly introverted as well but I found it really helpful to go stay with a friend for a weekend just after BD who understood my need for alone time, but was also there for me when I needed someone to vent/cry/talk to.
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
Or you could go for a long walk around the countryside if you find that sort of thing helps you clear your mind?
How awful for you to find out about the finances. I think you're right not to bring it up right now though, I think it will all come out in time. It must have been such a shock though and an additional blow. Take care of yourself.
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
Thanks Sandi. I realize and accept the fact that I am a major source of these issues, but also it takes 2 to talk. When she did bring up these issues it was more from a place of "i'm unhappy, there's nothing you can do about it" and i would try my hardest at that time to talk to her, to get her to see that it is possible to be happy together etc. I didn't ignore her. What I meant was the next day we'd get up and we just wouldn't discuss it since we're both not confrontational So I'd avoid it because the last thing i wanted was another day of tears, not listening to each other and stuff like that. I know it took her a long time to get to that breaking point, trust me. And i know that i didn't do myself or my relationship any favors by acting like this.
This would be so much easier if i didn't love her so much and if we had just a bitter/angry relationship. It would hurt but i'd walk away. As it stands though, i just can't. I'm not a controlling person, and she's very headstrong....even if i was controlling she wouldn't have any of it. I think if anything I just kept letting go more and more so i didn't seem like i was trying to smother her. Another mistake? Probably. In my emails i haven't tried to convince her of anything, i'm a man of few words (another fault) so i just tried to lay out how I felt, things i should have said before, explaining where i'm coming from. I never asked her to change her decision or anything like that. I just wanted to her to know what was going on in my head since i tend to be better at speaking from the heart in emails rather than off the cuff.
Thanks for the advice/info/tough love. I always welcome other points of view.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
I think what a lot of us newcomers can't wrap our heads around is how the WAS went so cold. You say communication can't help. Is it simply time that does, that did for you? Can you tell us more about where your turning points were when you decided you still had hope for your M?
I am just starting to realize the power of accepting this reality and all the choices I can still make. And still get huge tidal waves of the sickness and regret Frank describes.
Thank you for anything else you can offer.
Mid 30's Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH D 9/15; NC forever on
Or you could go for a long walk around the countryside if you find that sort of thing helps you clear your mind?
How awful for you to find out about the finances. I think you're right not to bring it up right now though, I think it will all come out in time. It must have been such a shock though and an additional blow. Take care of yourself.
That's about all I can do, but it's cold and 2 feet of snow on the ground right now. I did it today anyway, trudged a mile to our mailbox and back, crying like a baby the entire time.
As for the finances, I don't even know. It's causing me panic attacks just because we have no debt but we live in a house her mom willed to her. I have rights to it, due to us selling another house and moving here but i can't even begin to think about divorce lawyers and stuff like that right now as much as i should. Thinking about moving out and into an apartment is just too much. Everything we have here is ours, everything. Thinking about going through the cold motions of splitting things up and stuff like that makes me sick to my stomach.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
I think what a lot of us newcomers can't wrap our heads around is how the WAS went so cold. You say communication can't help. Is it simply time that does, that did for you? Can you tell us more about where your turning points were when you decided you still had hope for your M?
I am just starting to realize the power of accepting this reality and all the choices I can still make. And still get huge tidal waves of the sickness and regret Frank describes.
Thank you for anything else you can offer.
This is what's killing me. Cutting off communication is part of what got me/us into this situation. I gave her as much space and time and freedom as she wanted and that seems to have just added to her misery
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
I second Zelda09's suggestion of HeadSpace. Exercise has also helped me, especially yoga.
Do you have any close friends or family you could go visit for the weekend? I'm fairly introverted as well but I found it really helpful to go stay with a friend for a weekend just after BD who understood my need for alone time, but was also there for me when I needed someone to vent/cry/talk to.
We're in a weird situation. We moved to my wife's childhood home a few years ago. It's basically off-grid and the closest "town" is like an 80 mile round trip. Neither of us have real friends here and to be honest I've never found it easy to make them even if people lived around here. My entire family is on the other side of the country, as much as I hate it there i love my family and i feel like that would be the best thing for me right now. But i also don't feel like talking about any of this with anyone...probably because i'm a man and internalize everything....which is also how i got into this predicament
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
That's about all I can do, but it's cold and 2 feet of snow on the ground right now. I did it today anyway, trudged a mile to our mailbox and back, crying like a baby the entire time.
As for the finances, I don't even know. It's causing me panic attacks just because we have no debt but we live in a house her mom willed to her. I have rights to it, due to us selling another house and moving here but i can't even begin to think about divorce lawyers and stuff like that right now as much as i should. Thinking about moving out and into an apartment is just too much. Everything we have here is ours, everything. Thinking about going through the cold motions of splitting things up and stuff like that makes me sick to my stomach.
Don't think about lawyers and dividing stuff up and all that right now. You don't know what will happen, and thinking about it is just going to make you feel worse. I know that's much easier said than done though - I felt the same when I first got the bomb dropped on me, and I was panicking about finances too. It's still such a new wound, let yourself feel sadness now. And then once you've felt the first wave of sadness, you can start to pick up and GAL. It's hard though. I spent many days in bed crying, not able to get up, and I really felt it wouldn't get better. Reading DR helped me so much though (have you read the books?) and made me feel like I could, at least, control myself.
Originally Posted By: Frank75
We're in a weird situation. We moved to my wife's childhood home a few years ago. It's basically off-grid and the closest "town" is like an 80 mile round trip. Neither of us have real friends here and to be honest I've never found it easy to make them even if people lived around here. My entire family is on the other side of the country, as much as I hate it there i love my family and i feel like that would be the best thing for me right now. But i also don't feel like talking about any of this with anyone...probably because i'm a man and internalize everything....which is also how i got into this predicament
I'm not sure I understood, do you think you want to/could go visit your family? I don't know what sort of relationship you have with them, but I don't think you necessarily need to talk with them about the situation. You could just "be" with them, or talk about other stuff, and only talk about it if and when you feel like it. Although if you see that internalizing everything got you into the predicament then a really good first step/180 might be to start talking.
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
Don't think about lawyers and dividing stuff up and all that right now. You don't know what will happen, and thinking about it is just going to make you feel worse. I know that's much easier said than done though - I felt the same when I first got the bomb dropped on me, and I was panicking about finances too. It's still such a new wound, let yourself feel sadness now. And then once you've felt the first wave of sadness, you can start to pick up and GAL. It's hard though. I spent many days in bed crying, not able to get up, and I really felt it wouldn't get better. Reading DR helped me so much though (have you read the books?) and made me feel like I could, at least, control myself.
I know i'm just in panic mode right now and it's almost like being fired and given a box and 5 minutes to pack up. I know that's not true, just how i feel right now.
Luckily I work from home and this week has been slow because i alternate between being hysterical and being borderline comatose throughout the day.
For some reason today I decided to look at old pics of us. So heartbreaking, we were so happy, she's so beautiful, she was such a good person and i'm responsible for all of this. I don't think i've ever felt this level of anguish in my life, even when my grandparents and mother in law died. I feel like i'm being torn to pieces.
Originally Posted By: susana4
I'm not sure I understood, do you think you want to/could go visit your family? I don't know what sort of relationship you have with them, but I don't think you necessarily need to talk with them about the situation. You could just "be" with them, or talk about other stuff, and only talk about it if and when you feel like it. Although if you see that internalizing everything got you into the predicament then a really good first step/180 might be to start talking.
I want to go back to visit, we have a great relationship. I just don't want to tell them about this yet and i'm an emotional guy to begin with and i know if i went there i'd see them and immediately break down. I don't want to burden anyone with that, much less my parents. They absolutely love my wife, she's the daughter they never had and the sister my younger brother never had. It will tear them apart i'm sure too.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
I think what a lot of us newcomers can't wrap our heads around is how the WAS went so cold. You say communication can't help.
I believe I said that you will not be able to talk yourself out of this situation. Talking will not work to fix things now. Believe me, I know how hard that is, b/c that was the only way I knew how to work out problems. The LBS has to learn to "communicate" in a different way. He/she communicates through actions. (Detaching, GAL, not initiating contact, etc.) The WAS won't listen, b/c they have the strong attitude of "it's too little, too late". You cannot make them believe anything will change for the better....and stay that way. However, most of them can see (even if you don't think they are watching). Your actions give loud & clear messages. Having R talks will do no good until the couple is is in Piecing the M back together, in which the WAS has to been 100 % on board in working to save the M. You cannot get them on board by running your mouth, texting, emailing, etc. They aren't interested in your words.
The reason for the coldness, is two-fold, IMHO. First, the WAS has had it with the M. They are completely done! They are no longer interested is having you for their love interest, and they (WAS) have had an inner transformation. That is why I often tell the LBS that this is not the person you married! Second, the WAS wants the LBS to get the message quickly. They do not want to give any impression there is any hope left, or that they will change their mind, or that anything the LBS tries will work. They act cold b/c they feel cold towards the LBS. Some are worse than others.
In many cases, if the WAS believes the LBS is going to cooperate with whatever the WAS may want at the time (S, D, have an A, etc.) then they may suddenly change to being friendlier. This causes great confusion in the LBS. However, it does not mean the WAS has had a change of heart. They just want you to give them whatever they want and not give them a hard time about it. If the two of you can part and keep it friendly, they think it's great.
That may sound pretty cynical, but it's the general idea in a nutshell.
Quote:
Can you tell us more about where your turning points were when you decided you still had hope for your M?
Well, I tell people I am not the typical newcomer case who shows up on the doorsteps of the DB board. Not very many WAS's come to the board during the time they are having an A. It would take too long to explain my story and everything that happened to lead me here. But one night I disparately wanted to reach out to someone and ask them to just talk to me. I went to a site that called themselves Christian-based, and must have chosen a bad time, b/c all I got was a bunch of clowns. I just stumbled around and "accidentally" found my way here. I was so blessed to have had some of the very best people the board had to help me. They talked to me straight and hard (which was exactly what I wanted them to do). I was in bad shape and didn't want any cotton-candy therapy.
I would say that was my biggest turning point, but not the hardest. The hardest was putting into action the information I had been given. Ending the A was a biggie! Needless to say, end things with OM was another turning point. The withdrawals from it was really tough, and I thought it would never end. Staying with my LBH........well, I thought I might die. You see, he was not the one getting help and he did not have the tools you are getting. DBing is geared more to help the LBS, b/c they are usually the ones seeking the help. My H would not agree to go with me to any counseling, guidance from our Pastor, or anything. He wanted me to do the work. So, I really had to rely upon those here to help me. They were my counselors. They gave me guidance. In the meantime, I saw very, very little from him. He was going through his own transition in his life, which I didn't have enough sense to realize, until later. But in spite of everything, we're still together.
I would come here every single day for my therapy. Some say I helped them, as well. I could see how so many people how had no clue to the WAW's mindset. Anyway, I have camped out here to hopefully pay forward the help that was given me. I may not have been typical, in the sense I was a WAS seeking help, but my mindset was very typical. There is usually some variation in everyone's stitch, but it is just weird how the thinking and behavior of the WAS are alike. It's like a disease that shows similar symptoms in the patients.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well, she came home last night to talk. She made it 10000000% clear she made her decision and was sticking by it. Massive amounts of tears were shed. I'm still trying to process everything and failing miserably. I told her i'd start looking for an apartment and try to be out in a month or so....winter here doesn't help though.
I've never felt this low in my life but there's nothing else i can do right now. She's convinced this will make "US" happy and that she can never be happy together ever again. I can't believe i'm almost 40 and about to be living alone for the first time in my life, such a depressing thought She wants to remain friends and i'm not strong enough to play DB games right now, and if i said no she would just go along with that anyway.
I'm so lost right now, i don't see a future, all i want to do is go to sleep and not wake back up. This has been the worst week of my life.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
DBing isn't a "game" it's a way to live your life that WILL save YOU. When your book comes in, be sure to read it right away.
Trust me when I tell you that ALL of our spouses said the same thing. That there is no hope, they're sure, etc.
Keep the focus on you. You can do it.
Why do you have to be the one that moves out? My W told me the same thing and I looked at her, laughed and said that if she was unhappy, then she can be the one who leaves.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
DBing isn't a "game" it's a way to live your life that WILL save YOU. When your book comes in, be sure to read it right away.
Trust me when I tell you that ALL of our spouses said the same thing. That there is no hope, they're sure, etc.
Keep the focus on you. You can do it.
Why do you have to be the one that moves out? My W told me the same thing and I looked at her, laughed and said that if she was unhappy, then she can be the one who leaves.
It's just because this has gone on so long. She's been unhappy off and on for years, i just always thought we could fix it.
Sorry for the game comment, I just know her inside and out and she's never been a typical woman. She's very head strong and if i said "sorry we can't be friends" that would be that and right now i'm not strong enough to make good on something like that I'm too emotionally fragile right now.
As for the house, it was willed to her when her mom died. It's in her name. We moved here together and put money into it but according to WA law and an attorney that doesn't matter. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter to me anyway, i'd never want to take something her mom gave her away or force her to mortgage it. Yes, i'm probably too nice and despite our issues i could never do something like that to her.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Frank, I find the last sentence of your post alarming.
This is not the end. It's not the end of you, it's not the end of happiness, it's not the end of joy, it's not the end.
Take a while to absorb, and then check back in (and don't make plans to move out).
One way or the other, it will get better, Frank.
She said the attorney she talked to said either you make plans to move or the court will give you a date to move after the divorce is filed. I guess that has to do with me having no right to live here? Not sure. I don't think it would help anything having me here anyway, it's a very small house and it's not like we could live here and avoid each other.
I realize that last post sounded bad, i'm just in a terrible state right now. Everything i see here is US, and now it just seems like i've lived a lie for 15 years. I just can't even think about a future right now, i'm just living in the moment i guess.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Start making calls now, don't wait. Don't rely on what your wife's attorney has supposedly said.
I thought about it but in the grand scheme of things it won't matter. Like i said i'd never take the house her mom gave her or force it to be split up. She offered to give me half of what we put into it since moving, i think that's fair. The last thing i want right now is for anything to turn ugly. I'd be moving out regardless anyway, i couldn't stay here and be treated like an invisible man just to prove a point.
And i forgot to mention that last night she was originally very cold to me. But she said she had to do that because nothing else ever worked. After i vented and cried a lot she seemed to open up and feel genuinely bad and even hugged me and offered to make me dinner. I realize it means nothing but to me it was something i needed....just seeing that she still had a heart.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Start making calls now, don't wait. Don't rely on what your wife's attorney has supposedly said.
I thought about it but in the grand scheme of things it won't matter. Like i said i'd never take the house her mom gave her or force it to be split up. She offered to give me half of what we put into it since moving, i think that's fair. The last thing i want right now is for anything to turn ugly. I'd be moving out regardless anyway, i couldn't stay here and be treated like an invisible man just to prove a point.
And i forgot to mention that last night she was originally very cold to me. But she said she had to do that because nothing else ever worked. After i vented and cried a lot she seemed to open up and feel genuinely bad and even hugged me and offered to make me dinner. I realize it means nothing but to me it was something i needed....just seeing that she still had a heart.
Frank, I think the point is still a good one, if she's spoken to a lawyer then it's probably time for you to speak to one as well, just so you know where you stand.
It sounds like a hard situation with the house, you don't know that you'd be treated like an invisible man though, everyone's situation is different. Ultimately you need to decide what's best for you, but maybe you should take some more time to think about it - it sounds like you agreed straightaway to move out, but sleep on it a few days.
I'll just echo what everyone else said that happiness is not over, and it's not the end. Do read the book when you get it, hope it gives you some more hope about your happiness and future.
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
The reason for the coldness, is two-fold, IMHO. First, the WAS has had it with the M. They are completely done! They are no longer interested is having you for their love interest, and they (WAS) have had an inner transformation. That is why I often tell the LBS that this is not the person you married! Second, the WAS wants the LBS to get the message quickly. They do not want to give any impression there is any hope left, or that they will change their mind, or that anything the LBS tries will work. They act cold b/c they feel cold towards the LBS. Some are worse than others.
In many cases, if the WAS believes the LBS is going to cooperate with whatever the WAS may want at the time (S, D, have an A, etc.) then they may suddenly change to being friendlier. This causes great confusion in the LBS. However, it does not mean the WAS has had a change of heart. They just want you to give them whatever they want and not give them a hard time about it. If the two of you can part and keep it friendly, they think it's great.
sandi, thanks so much for sharing your perspective as a WAS. The WAS is not who we married -- wow, that is so true! I don't want to hijack this thread but was wondering what you make of a WAS who's warm/friendly all along? H has been very nice to me throughout the whole time since the BD (and yes it is very confusing as the LBS!), even when I was being very pushy and begging him not to leave and definitely not going to go along with it. Is it just his way of trying to get me to cooperate?
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
And i forgot to mention that last night she was originally very cold to me. But she said she had to do that because nothing else ever worked. After i vented and cried a lot she seemed to open up and feel genuinely bad and even hugged me and offered to make me dinner. I realize it means nothing but to me it was something i needed....just seeing that she still had a heart.
Frank, you may think she is not typical, but her behavior is so common in WAW who drops the bomb and the H is having a meltdown. "Everything will be fine, you'll see. (give a hug or kiss, like she is mothering him) Look, we are still going to be the best of friends, ok? Come on, I'll fix you something to eat, and you'll start feeling better."
Quote:
sandi, thanks so much for sharing your perspective as a WAS. The WAS is not who we married -- wow, that is so true! I don't want to hijack this thread but was wondering what you make of a WAS who's warm/friendly all along? H has been very nice to me throughout the whole time since the BD (and yes it is very confusing as the LBS!), even when I was being very pushy and begging him not to leave and definitely not going to go along with it. Is it just his way of trying to get me to cooperate?
I believe it is. Plus, the WAH wants to keep things running smoothly without heavy scenes from his W. I think both the WAW & WAH want as little resistance from the LBS as possible. The WAS is ready to move on, while the LBS is still reeling with the hit of the BD. Not all WAS's are nice/friendly. Usually if they do not get what they want (especially women), they lose their niceness. I think men tend to work at keeping the LBW calm as he possibly can, which means being warm/friendly/nice. IMO, the WAW turns into a real b'tch and the H can see a greater degree of change in her than maybe the WAH shows his W. That is mostly based on what I have observed over many years of reading threads. I'm sure it can go either way, depending on the person.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I believe it is. Plus, the WAH wants to keep things running smoothly without heavy scenes from his W. I think both the WAW & WAH want as little resistance from the LBS as possible. The WAS is ready to move on, while the LBS is still reeling with the hit of the BD. Not all WAS's are nice/friendly. Usually if they do not get what they want (especially women), they lose their niceness. I think men tend to work at keeping the LBW calm as he possibly can, which means being warm/friendly/nice. IMO, the WAW turns into a real b'tch and the H can see a greater degree of change in her than maybe the WAH shows his W. That is mostly based on what I have observed over many years of reading threads. I'm sure it can go either way, depending on the person.
Interesting on the differences in general between WAW & WAH. I don't feel I've seen much of a change in H, in many ways he acts like everything is the same except we don't sleep in the same bed or ML anymore. Maybe that is typical WAH behaviour then. He definitely did a bit of 'mothering' behaviour like Frank's WAW (maybe this is also typical WAS behaviour?). I also did a lot of crying and talking when he first dropped the bomb, and spent many days erupting in tears constantly (prior to finding DR) and he spent the whole time 'mothering' me and making me meals and stuff. Do you think guilt plays into it too as well as wanting cooperation?
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
I can't speak as much for the WAH, of course, but I would say it probably depends on that individual person. I know I have read a lot of posts from H's who wonders if his WAW does things out of guilt, but from my own VP, I can see in his thread that he is just hoping she feels guilty. In reality, she usually doesn't, b/c she has gone through a transformation. I believe for the most part, the WAS's feelings of guilt do not come till much later. That doesn't mean the WAS wants to see their S suffer, it just means they don't feel guilty about their own decisions.
Let me add this, also. Whenever there is a hidden, open EA/PA involved, I believe it causes the WAS to be much worse in ways one without an A would be. They have a different agenda, are deceitful, illogical, untrustworthy in every thing, the epitome of selfishness, callous........on & on. I'm not saying some of this never shows up in a WAS not in an A, but there is waywardness in the S who is either in an A or wants to prowl and party. They are worse than teenagers in rebellion. It is that waywardness that takes over their life and nobody (LBS, family, former friends, etc.) can seem to influence them as long as they are in their wayward state.
The wayward spouse has changed so drastically that the LBS thinks they must surely be having a MLC. Sometimes that is correct, but many times it is not. However, it is a crises for them.....and the S that loves them.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Frank, you may think she is not typical, but her behavior is so common in WAW who drops the bomb and the H is having a meltdown. "Everything will be fine, you'll see. (give a hug or kiss, like she is mothering him) Look, we are still going to be the best of friends, ok? Come on, I'll fix you something to eat, and you'll start feeling better."
I'm still waiting for my books. I'm just in a very negative space right now. I realize she's trying to smooth my transition over into being single, that's what makes it even harder. She walled off her heart and I totally forgot this person existed. It hurts so bad seeing it again.
But on the other hand she sees me in total despair and she asks me if i want to go looking at apartments tomorrow. This plan has been a long time coming and it took her tremendous amounts of energy to finally do it, so now it's a big sigh of relief to her that this is out there and she just doesn't want to deal with it (or me) anymore. It's such a horrible feeling.
I read an article the other day, I forget where, that said something like "men don't really hear talking, action is their language and that's why when the unhappy wife finally comes out and wants a divorce, men finally realize the scope of the issues". That's me in a nutshell
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
read an article the other day, I forget where, that said something like "men don't really hear talking, action is their language and that's why when the unhappy wife finally comes out and wants a divorce, men finally realize the scope of the issues".
So true! And now you have to apply that to her. She will not hear talking, only action.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
read an article the other day, I forget where, that said something like "men don't really hear talking, action is their language and that's why when the unhappy wife finally comes out and wants a divorce, men finally realize the scope of the issues".
So true! And now you have to apply that to her. She will not hear talking, only action.
I really want to, really want the chance to prove to her. My only problem is the time that's gone by, i don't believe in anything like "it's never too late" but she does. I'm hoping there's a sliver of a chance for her to actually see that action and not just close me off completely.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
I really think i need to go to the doctor. As adverse as I am to pharmaceuticals, i'm on day 7 of just being completely panic-stricken/anxiety-ridden. I've never taken any depression or anxiety pills and i hate the thought of not being able to do this on my own, but i don't know how much more i can take. I can't get my brain to turn off, it's just a constant stream of panic-inducing thoughts and it's horrible.
edit: it's been exactly a week since my "dear frank" email, down to the minute.
Last edited by Frank75; 01/24/1511:41 PM.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
I really think i need to go to the doctor. As adverse as I am to pharmaceuticals, i'm on day 7 of just being completely panic-stricken/anxiety-ridden. I've never taken any depression or anxiety pills and i hate the thought of not being able to do this on my own, but i don't know how much more i can take. I can't get my brain to turn off, it's just a constant stream of panic-inducing thoughts and it's horrible.
edit: it's been exactly a week since my "dear frank" email, down to the minute.
Hi Frank, if you think that, please call your doctor and make an appointment as soon as possible. It's possible to get some medication in the short-term to help with the anxiety and depression, and you won't necessarily need to take it longer-term. It might just help right now.
If you feel in any way you might be a danger to yourself, or even if not, you might want to call a crisis phone line. I don't know what you've available but have a quick google. At one point I called one here that is available for a call for any reason (they handle not just suicide prevention but also depression, divorce, death in the family etc - they basically said if you're upset and need to talk you could call for any reason). It was so incredibly nice just to feel there was someone I could talk to at any time day or night that i needed. I called them in the middle of the night, when I'd woken up crying and couldn't sleep, and didn't want to disturb any friends or family. Maybe you could look into that, if you do want to talk to someone, as i know you mentioned you didn't want to tell your family right now.
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
Hi Frank, I'm sorry that you find yourself here but you're in the right place. I came here 3 weeks ago and it does help to know there you're not alone.
I know exactly how you feel Frank, and I would recommend you do see your doctor. I've needed to see mine regarding depression & anxiety and antidepressants do help. They won't solve everything but you'll at least be able to think more clearly and right now, you need your gameface on.
Our sitch's are quite similar. Ok, my W didn't squirrel money away beforehand, she just walked out on her family 4 days before Christmas Day. She's saying all the things yours has though and she's being just as cold too. What you have to remember is that they will say they don't want to hurt you, but because they've come to this decision over a long period of time (even though you thought things were ok), it becomes just part of a necassary process for them.
Obviously you're living arrangements are an issue at the moment. I've read why you can't stay in the house etc so once you find somewhere, my advice for you in the short term would be to remain calm (as difficult as that seems), and take care of yourself. I know it's tough to hear brother but you need to get your head around the fact that right now, she doesn't want you. I'm not saying don't have hope, but you need to balance that with the possibility that any efforts you make may not change her feeling that way.
My BD was only 4 weeks ago so I'm as new to this "pulling back" concept as you are. Just try to keep a PMA and detach as best you can right now. Detaching doesn't have to mean you don't want to work things out or you're giving up, it's just that you can then at least get through your day without thinking about her with every breath you take. It helps trust me.
Keep posting and take care.
Barry
Me 40 W 38 T 23 M 21 S21 S19 D16 S14 BD 19/12/2014 D mentioned 27/2/2015. I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
There is no shame in going to the doctor for medication. It is not a sign of weakness, but of wisdom. You would seek help for other physical issues. Many, many men here have took medication to help them during this terrible ordeal. You have to be able to sleep, eat, and think. You have to take care of yourself first.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi Frank, if you think that, please call your doctor and make an appointment as soon as possible. It's possible to get some medication in the short-term to help with the anxiety and depression, and you won't necessarily need to take it longer-term. It might just help right now.
If you feel in any way you might be a danger to yourself, or even if not, you might want to call a crisis phone line. I don't know what you've available but have a quick google. At one point I called one here that is available for a call for any reason (they handle not just suicide prevention but also depression, divorce, death in the family etc - they basically said if you're upset and need to talk you could call for any reason). It was so incredibly nice just to feel there was someone I could talk to at any time day or night that i needed. I called them in the middle of the night, when I'd woken up crying and couldn't sleep, and didn't want to disturb any friends or family. Maybe you could look into that, if you do want to talk to someone, as i know you mentioned you didn't want to tell your family right now.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
There is no shame in going to the doctor for medication. It is not a sign of weakness, but of wisdom. You would seek help for other physical issues. Many, many men here have took medication to help them during this terrible ordeal. You have to be able to sleep, eat, and think. You have to take care of yourself first.
Thanks, i will try to make an appointment this week to see someone. I've been at the point of calling a crisis hotline a few times, i even had the number pulled up but then decided i was ok.
Last edited by Frank75; 01/25/1504:36 PM.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Hi Frank, I'm sorry that you find yourself here but you're in the right place. I came here 3 weeks ago and it does help to know there you're not alone.
I know exactly how you feel Frank, and I would recommend you do see your doctor. I've needed to see mine regarding depression & anxiety and antidepressants do help. They won't solve everything but you'll at least be able to think more clearly and right now, you need your gameface on.
Our sitch's are quite similar. Ok, my W didn't squirrel money away beforehand, she just walked out on her family 4 days before Christmas Day. She's saying all the things yours has though and she's being just as cold too. What you have to remember is that they will say they don't want to hurt you, but because they've come to this decision over a long period of time (even though you thought things were ok), it becomes just part of a necassary process for them.
Obviously you're living arrangements are an issue at the moment. I've read why you can't stay in the house etc so once you find somewhere, my advice for you in the short term would be to remain calm (as difficult as that seems), and take care of yourself. I know it's tough to hear brother but you need to get your head around the fact that right now, she doesn't want you. I'm not saying don't have hope, but you need to balance that with the possibility that any efforts you make may not change her feeling that way.
My BD was only 4 weeks ago so I'm as new to this "pulling back" concept as you are. Just try to keep a PMA and detach as best you can right now. Detaching doesn't have to mean you don't want to work things out or you're giving up, it's just that you can then at least get through your day without thinking about her with every breath you take. It helps trust me.
Keep posting and take care.
Barry
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement, Barry, it means a lot.
I'm trying to hold my head up, i'm also still trying to wrap my head around all of this. Wife has been working the late shift so I see her like 2 hours a morning and then she's gone. This morning she told me that she's spending another night in a hotel tonight because it's too much to be around me right now. I'm "too depressed" and she thinks i'm using that for sympathy...which i'm not. I'm sorry i'm not packing boxes a week after the love of my life told me to get out.
The shitty thing is yesterday I had a decent second half of the day. I was trying to wrap my head around detachment, trying to at least visualize moving out, trying to block the nonstop recurrent bad thoughts etc. I thought i'd wake up today and have a decent day, positive interaction with her, etc but nope.
She told me this morning "this would be so much easier if you weren't always so nice", that was a kick in the gut too. Well, i'm never going to stoop down to that level so i'm not sure what she wants out of me. I wish she would have noticed this "too nice" thing while she was plotting all of this.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
I'm so sorry you've been having such a rough time. I saw a doctor a few weeks after BD, and I wasn't prescribed any meds, but she did give me details of counselling, which has been very helpful. It is well worth seeing the doctor, given how you have been feeling. What has happened is a big trauma, and you are shocked and distressed - as so many of us have been. It will get better, but you may just need some interim support to help you for now.
Number one priority - look after Frank...
Take care, Toots x
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I'm so sorry you've been having such a rough time. I saw a doctor a few weeks after BD, and I wasn't prescribed any meds, but she did give me details of counselling, which has been very helpful. It is well worth seeing the doctor, given how you have been feeling. What has happened is a big trauma, and you are shocked and distressed - as so many of us have been. It will get better, but you may just need some interim support to help you for now.
Number one priority - look after Frank...
Take care, Toots x
Thanks Toots, i'm going to try and make an appointment tomorrow morning and hope there's an opening
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
She is right, this would be so much easier if we hated each other. Right now i just feel like she's throwing me out like a piece of trash though. The worst part is, she's thought about this for so long so she just wants it over meanwhile for me it's a week old thing that I still can't wrap my head around and she won't acknowledge that part of it. She just wants me out so she doesn't have to deal with the repercussions of her actions anymore. Fits in with her "run away from problems" personality type.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
You can't afford to take every thing she says to heart. She is going to say crazy stuff. You have to not take it personal (as weird as that sounds). Just like if a sick person threw up on you accidentally.
Nothing you do will be right in her eyes, at this time. If you were not nice, she'd complain about it. Can you understand that this her problem? She has a "heart" problem and she will have to fix it.
And Frank, please stop having expectations. Why would you expect to have a more pleasant day with her? Her moods are constantly changing for no apparent reason. You can't live your life based on her moods.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I know Sandi, I'm just in a raw emotional state and grasping for anything that can make me feel better for even a second.
I'm still waiting for my books so i don't even know what to do besides try to detach. I know her next step will be just filing for divorce because she feels like i'm going off my rocker.
And why is divorce so easy in this country. In washington state it's a matter of clicking a link and paying $300 and then a 90 day wait. So much time, energy, money, love goes into a marriage and it can just be extinguished in 10 minutes by clicking a link and giving your credit card number. It's just sickening to me Probably because i was serious when i made this lifetime commitment and 50% of the people out there aren't serious.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
What were the other problems that she would bring up that you swept under the rug? I understand you were afraid, but you can obviously see that didn't help.
It all centered around first her mom dying and me not being there. I have apologized for this 10000 times over the last few years. She has issues with forgiving and forgetting, she still brings up minute issues from 10+ years ago so that is always a huge impediment. She had a crappy childhood (parents divorced when she was like 3 and her dad pretty much disappeared) so i think that plays a lot into her forgiving/forgetting. Frank, I'm so sorry you are in such pain. But it will help you A LOT MORE to dig deep and own the pieces of this that are yours and to do something radically different this time.
Apologizing to her wasn't wrong but it's not enough. You cannot just "SAY" you are sorry. She has to know that the same thing would not happen again.
That's a big, key difference. That means different behavior on your end.
How are you behaving any differently than before? I mean, seems to me that is what she was looking for since at least 2012, and didn't see enough change to make her believe things could be better/different.
Unless a WAS believes the marriage can be better/different than before,
chances are they won't return to a marriage they left.
The LBSer must demonstrate ways that this marriage can be better/different.
You do that by changing how You interact, how you behave, how you seem to be.
Aside from that, i haven't swept anything under the rug...just recurrent bouts of "unhappiness" and like i said it always would come during periods of other stress in her life and she would confront me about it but it was never from a position of "i'm unhappy, can you help?" it was always just very negative "i'm unhappy there's nothing you can do". Read your first posts again. You mentioned several bouts of marriage problems, a few times she said she wanted a divorce, and you promised change. But it didn't happy. Evidently you both DID nothing new or different. Did you guys see a marriage counselor or did either of you begin counseling?
The inability to be there for her when she most needed you, (her mom's illness and death) was a huge deal to her, obviously. You have to know that times like childbirth, the death of a parent, or other loved one - are times when a spouse is most needed - and it's when your behavior and words are most noticed. For some, blowing it during those times is just unforgivable. I'm not defending that, I'm explaining.
I point this^^ out b/c you are forgetting the pieces to this that you may be able to do something about.
We have to ponder how you can reassure her that you'd never be "absent" or as you said "not handling it well", but I'm not sure what that means.
Did you withdraw from her or leave the area or what? And when you slept elsewhere for months, what did you DO to change her mind? Did things just fade and not get addressed, and
can you see that merely hoping things faded out, means they may have faded for you, but they were still hurting her?
I mention this b/c you seem unable to see that to HER, this has been dragging on for some time and to HER, she has been "trying" for years to be happy inside the marriage.
This time, you need to show that you can and will change and that things can and would be different and better, and last.
But then a day or two later we would act like nothing was wrong and that was just the dumbest thing we could have ever done. I just am conflict adverse, so it was easier to just let a few days pass and hope things eased back instead of confronting the issues head on. Often this ^^ behavior is the kiss of death. Problems really do not "go away". Those who say they are "conflict averse" almost seem to think the rest of us like conflict, but that's SO not true.
We just know that without processing and resolving conflicts, they stay and poison our relationships and sabotage our chances of being happy together.
I realize i haven't been a great husband and i realize i have many short-comings but from my POV our marriage should have never gotten to this point.
In what ways were you "not great"? Identify the ways you feel you failed her and if you think they're real, figure out ways to change them asap. For real, for good.
As for how the marriage should never have gotten to this point, couldn't she feel the same way? It sounds as if she was always the one to say the marriage needed work and from your posts, you were the one who did nothing new or different and preferred hoping the issues would go away. Is that a reasonably fair assessment? It matters b/c you are suggesting this is "sudden" but I'm betting she's not seeing it that way at all.
If you know you have work to do, issues to work on, why not start there?
You are all you control in this situation (a much harder concept to accept, but its vital that you remember this at all times). So your focus has to Stop being on HER - and only be on you.
From the outside looking in, i can't understand how someone can have a spouse that loves them so much, so unconditionally and just shut them off. It seems like anyone should want a partner like that, but she's just walled me out of her heart
Frank, It's easy to start feeling like a victim in this situation. But it does NOT HELP you. Keep going back to your earliest most honest posts and see your role in this. She seems to have felt shut off from you, in the past.
If you don't see your own role in this, if you keep acting as if this came out of nowhere and just last week, you'll stay stuck.
You need to take action to move forward, demonstrate change, & become the man you always wanted to become (become a man only a fool would leave)
and be the guy she fell in love with. How do you think you can do some of that?
--
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
What were the other problems that she would bring up that you swept under the rug? I understand you were afraid, but you can obviously see that didn't help.
Frank, I'm so sorry you are in such pain. But it will help you A LOT MORE to dig deep and own the pieces of this that are yours and to do something radically different this time.
Apologizing to her wasn't wrong but it's not enough. You cannot just "SAY" you are sorry. She has to know that the same thing would not happen again.
That's a big, key difference. That means different behavior on your end.
How are you behaving any differently than before? I mean, seems to me that is what she was looking for since at least 2012, and didn't see enough change to make her believe things could be better/different.
Unless a WAS believes the marriage can be better/different than before,
chances are they won't return to a marriage they left.
The LBSer must demonstrate ways that this marriage can be better/different.
You do that by changing how You interact, how you behave, how you seem to be.
Read your first posts again. You mentioned several bouts of marriage problems, a few times she said she wanted a divorce, and you promised change. But it didn't happy. Evidently you both DID nothing new or different. Did you guys see a marriage counselor or did either of you begin counseling?
The inability to be there for her when she most needed you, (her mom's illness and death) was a huge deal to her, obviously. You have to know that times like childbirth, the death of a parent, or other loved one - are times when a spouse is most needed - and it's when your behavior and words are most noticed. For some, blowing it during those times is just unforgivable. I'm not defending that, I'm explaining.
I point this^^ out b/c you are forgetting the pieces to this that you may be able to do something about.
We have to ponder how you can reassure her that you'd never be "absent" or as you said "not handling it well", but I'm not sure what that means.
Did you withdraw from her or leave the area or what? And when you slept elsewhere for months, what did you DO to change her mind? Did things just fade and not get addressed, and
can you see that merely hoping things faded out, means they may have faded for you, but they were still hurting her?
I mention this b/c you seem unable to see that to HER, this has been dragging on for some time and to HER, she has been "trying" for years to be happy inside the marriage.
This time, you need to show that you can and will change and that things can and would be different and better, and last.
Often this ^^ behavior is the kiss of death. Problems really do not "go away". Those who say they are "conflict averse" almost seem to think the rest of us like conflict, but that's SO not true.
We just know that without processing and resolving conflicts, they stay and poison our relationships and sabotage our chances of being happy together.
In what ways were you "not great"? Identify the ways you feel you failed her and if you think they're real, figure out ways to change them asap. For real, for good.
As for how the marriage should never have gotten to this point, couldn't she feel the same way? It sounds as if she was always the one to say the marriage needed work and from your posts, you were the one who did nothing new or different and preferred hoping the issues would go away. Is that a reasonably fair assessment? It matters b/c you are suggesting this is "sudden" but I'm betting she's not seeing it that way at all.
If you know you have work to do, issues to work on, why not start there?
You are all you control in this situation (a much harder concept to accept, but its vital that you remember this at all times). So your focus has to Stop being on HER - and only be on you
From the outside looking in, i can't understand how someone can have a spouse that loves them so much, so unconditionally and just shut them off. It seems like anyone should want a partner like that, but she's just walled me out of her heart
Frank, It's easy to start feeling like a victim in this situation. But it does NOT HELP you. Keep going back to your earliest most honest posts and see your role in this. She seems to have felt shut off from you, in the past.
If you don't see your own role in this, if you keep acting as if this came out of nowhere and just last week, you'll stay stuck.
You need to take action to move forward, demonstrate change, & become the man you always wanted to become (become a man only a fool would leave)
and be the guy she fell in love with. How do you think you can do some of that?
--
I am trying not to be mad or place blame on here, i really am. It's hard right now even though i know none of this was her fault. I've told her i don't hold it against her, we've had no anger between us this week just sadness. The only thing i can do at this point is try to get a stay of execution while i work on myself or just move out, work on myself and roll the dice that she will notice. Her mindset right now is for me to be out asap...probably because right now i'm only making matters worse by being depressed. I told her this morning that i'd go to a hotel tonight instead of her but she already made the reservations.
I really would do anything to make this work again and for her that isn't even a possibility right now. I just have to make the changes, identify the issues, and hope her heart is open to what i become in the future. I found this quote the other day and this identifies me to a T
Quote:
It is said that people don’t change until they hit rock bottom and I can tell you first hand that the bottom doesn't get any lower than the earth beneath these men’s feet. The threat of divorce generates true soul-searching. These are the men who readily schedule appointments for therapy, sign up for marriage seminars, read every self-help book they can get their hands on, seek spiritual connection and even risk vulnerability by discussing the f-word (feelings) with friends and family. Gradually, they become the husbands these women have been wanting.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Thanks, i will try to make an appointment this week to see someone. I've been at the point of calling a crisis hotline a few times, i even had the number pulled up but then decided i was ok.
Good luck, hope you can get an appointment tomorrow. Like seeing the doctor, there's no shame in calling a crisis hotline. Depending on the hotline and their purpose (if they're available for talking about any issue), they may be happy just to talk to you for 10 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, whatever you need, just so you have some support. If you feel like it might benefit you, you should go ahead and call them.
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
Good luck, hope you can get an appointment tomorrow. Like seeing the doctor, there's no shame in calling a crisis hotline. Depending on the hotline and their purpose (if they're available for talking about any issue), they may be happy just to talk to you for 10 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, whatever you need, just so you have some support. If you feel like it might benefit you, you should go ahead and call them.
Part of what i'm working on is talking about my issues instead of holding them in. I never really gave thought to a crisis hotline until this time last week, i always thought they were all suicide watch type things but it makes sense for people with no one else to talk to about any sort of crisis. I definitely will call if i approach that low level again. I've been reading a lot about techniques to use when i feel panic type feelings coming on and so far they seem to be helping as well. Deep breaths/positive thoughts/etc. Thanks for helping me through this, Susana.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
I think i've finally wrapped my head around the thought of at least being able to move out. Will it be tough and sad as hell? Yes. Will it possibly allow me to show my wife that I'm serious about our future? Yes.
Our situation is unique in that we live in a small house, i work from home, and there's NOTHING around us. So by moving here a few years ago I just think it put a laser focus on our issues and we still had no idea how to go about trying to fix them. I think by me moving out of the house, we can possibly try to reconnect with IMs and phone calls instead of both sitting here in silence (or in different rooms) and having the constant feeling of unhappiness hovering over us. Maybe even eventually convincing her to drive down to visit and go see a movie/get dinner and discuss life.
I also plan on joining a gym, possibly volunteering at an animal shelter in my off time, going back to church for the first time in 20+ years, and i'm sure some other things. The more I wrap my head around this whole thing, the more i'm realizing how much i lost myself over the last few years, i think i was depressed and didn't realize it, and all of my thoughts were being focused on how happy/unhappy my W was each day and having my life revolve around that.
Don't get me wrong, i'm still sadder than hell, but i'm trying to focus on positives and not get hung up on negatives. It's the only way i can make it through this....i guess the human brain has some sort of self-preservation built in.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Good luck, hope you can get an appointment tomorrow. Like seeing the doctor, there's no shame in calling a crisis hotline. Depending on the hotline and their purpose (if they're available for talking about any issue), they may be happy just to talk to you for 10 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, whatever you need, just so you have some support. If you feel like it might benefit you, you should go ahead and call them.
Part of what i'm working on is talking about my issues instead of holding them in. I never really gave thought to a crisis hotline until this time last week, i always thought they were all suicide watch type things but it makes sense for people with no one else to talk to about any sort of crisis. I definitely will call if i approach that low level again. I've been reading a lot about techniques to use when i feel panic type feelings coming on and so far they seem to be helping as well. Deep breaths/positive thoughts/etc. Thanks for helping me through this, Susana.
Of course, Frank, happy to support. This forum has really been an invaluable source of support for me so far! I think the crisis hotlines are great, in fact I think I may make a donation to my local one, they were so kind and they even offered to phone me later that week after our marriage counselling so I could talk to someone about how it went. It's also completely different to talking to a friend or family because they won't judge and they won't tell you what to do. I think talking more about your feelings sounds like a good idea and like a good 180 too.
I just saw your last post, your attitude sounds really good frank! And your plans for getting out and volunteering etc sound good. Do bear in mind you shouldn't push or convince your wife to come spend time with you but she may well find she misses you, or is curious enough if you make a lot of changes to your lifestyle and your overall level of happiness, that she is curious and wants to know what's going on. Good luck and hugs to you.
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
Of course, Frank, happy to support. This forum has really been an invaluable source of support for me so far! I think the crisis hotlines are great, in fact I think I may make a donation to my local one, they were so kind and they even offered to phone me later that week after our marriage counselling so I could talk to someone about how it went. It's also completely different to talking to a friend or family because they won't judge and they won't tell you what to do. I think talking more about your feelings sounds like a good idea and like a good 180 too.
I just saw your last post, your attitude sounds really good frank! And your plans for getting out and volunteering etc sound good. Do bear in mind you shouldn't push or convince your wife to come spend time with you but she may well find she misses you, or is curious enough if you make a lot of changes to your lifestyle and your overall level of happiness, that she is curious and wants to know what's going on. Good luck and hugs to you.
It's definitely been a huge help and support to me too. It's nice having people experiencing the same thing being here to help. I also really appreciate the "tough love" that caused me to have a lot of introspection. I think i'm going to try and see if there's any counselors in town. I've never been before and right now is probably the right time to see one while my emotions are raw but i'm more open than i've ever been in my life.
Thanks I guess 'convince' was the wrong word. She loves going out and i think besides me, one of her major sources of unhappiness was moving where we did and not realizing how tough it is with NOTHING to do unless it involves the outdoors. And just to note, i definitely offered many times to move but she didn't want to even though she was unhappy My only issue now is to try and balance on that line between trying to get her to see changes and not overdoing it and pushing her away.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
It's definitely been a huge help and support to me too. It's nice having people experiencing the same thing being here to help. I also really appreciate the "tough love" that caused me to have a lot of introspection. I think i'm going to try and see if there's any counselors in town. I've never been before and right now is probably the right time to see one while my emotions are raw but i'm more open than i've ever been in my life. You sound wonderfully ripe for change. That's a great time for going. Besides, If not now, when?
Did you check out that personal growth workshop called "Essential Experience"? (Sorry but now I'm not even sure if I told you specifically about it but), it's in Philadelphia. It's also called "EE" for short.
It is for individuals to work on their issues, whether from work related problems or childhood issues resurfacing, alcohol, temper, or just some obstacles to overcome or goals to clarify, "EE" is excellent for it.
For me, therapy was usually very helpful. But some times it was "fragmented" B/c right after I had an insight or breakthrough, I'd have to go back to work or pick up the kids. Therapy was only an hour. The next week I'd have to regroup and start over.
So at times, for me, a long weekend workshop like EE was more effective at creating change and sticking to it. Definitely the most profound workshop I've attended, and since then I've gone back a few times to do "team", which is like a free refresher course.
You would get A LOT out of it, I think. Anyhow, just check out their website.
Then in time, if your w is amenable, attending Retrovaille is also a great idea. But it's for couples, not individuals. We went to that when we began piecing, which was a lot harder than I expected, and it was just what we needed then.
But that's down the road. For now, start with a good counselor. If you don't connect well enough with them after a few meetings (very few, imo) then find another one.
You want to have a good fit, so you trust them, and so you believe you will dig deeply enough (or they'll help you with that) and of course you want to feel supported and not judged.
Thanks I guess 'convince' was the wrong word. She loves going out and i think besides me, one of her major sources of unhappiness was moving where we did and not realizing how tough it is with NOTHING to do unless it involves the outdoors. And just to note, i definitely offered many times to move but she didn't want to even though she was unhappy My only issue now is to try and balance on that line between trying to get her to see changes and not overdoing it and pushing her away.
My gut feeling is that you have a ways before getting to that point. (So maybe Don't borrow trouble from tomorrow...?).
Hang in there! GOOD LUCK, keep on keeping on.
Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 01/26/1506:07 AM.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
It's definitely been a huge help and support to me too. It's nice having people experiencing the same thing being here to help. I also really appreciate the "tough love" that caused me to have a lot of introspection. I think i'm going to try and see if there's any counselors in town. I've never been before and right now is probably the right time to see one while my emotions are raw but i'm more open than i've ever been in my life.
Frank, I agree with what 25years said here, now is definitely a good time for counselling. As awful as this whole experience is, it is a good chance for some reflection, opening up, and making some real changes - that will benefit you for the rest of your life, regardless of what happens with your M. When choosing a counselor, you might want to try out a few, like 25years says, until you find one you get on with. How much you benefit will really depend on how well you get on with the counsellor and how much you can open up to them, plus there are different types of counseling so you might like some styles better than others.
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
Did you check out that personal growth workshop called "Essential Experience"? (Sorry but now I'm not even sure if I told you specifically about it but), it's in Philadelphia. It's also called "EE" for short.
It is for individuals to work on their issues, whether from work related problems or childhood issues resurfacing, alcohol, temper, or just some obstacles to overcome or goals to clarify, "EE" is excellent for it.
I think I might be the one you told about EE. At least I know you definitely told me about it recently (it sounds great, really wish I could go).
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
You sound wonderfully ripe for change. That's a great time for going. Besides, If not now, when?
Did you check out that personal growth workshop called "Essential Experience"? (Sorry but now I'm not even sure if I told you specifically about it but), it's in Philadelphia. It's also called "EE" for short.
It is for individuals to work on their issues, whether from work related problems or childhood issues resurfacing, alcohol, temper, or just some obstacles to overcome or goals to clarify, "EE" is excellent for it.
For me, therapy was usually very helpful. But some times it was "fragmented" B/c right after I had an insight or breakthrough, I'd have to go back to work or pick up the kids. Therapy was only an hour. The next week I'd have to regroup and start over.
So at times, for me, a long weekend workshop like EE was more effective at creating change and sticking to it. Definitely the most profound workshop I've attended, and since then I've gone back a few times to do "team", which is like a free refresher course.
You would get A LOT out of it, I think. Anyhow, just check out their website.
Then in time, if your w is amenable, attending Retrovaille is also a great idea. But it's for couples, not individuals. We went to that when we began piecing, which was a lot harder than I expected, and it was just what we needed then.
But that's down the road. For now, start with a good counselor. If you don't connect well enough with them after a few meetings (very few, imo) then find another one.
You want to have a good fit, so you trust them, and so you believe you will dig deeply enough (or they'll help you with that) and of course you want to feel supported and not judged.
My gut feeling is that you have a ways before getting to that point. (So maybe Don't borrow trouble from tomorrow...?).
Hang in there! GOOD LUCK, keep on keeping on.[/color]
It wasn't me but thanks for the info, i'll definitely check out that EE seminar. My family actually lives in the philly burbs so that might be perfect for when i visit.
I did hear about that Retrovaille thing before i think, but is it religious based? My wife is pretty adamantly atheist so that would be a big ask to get her to go even if they didn't bring faith into the actual process.
I'm searching for counselors now, i'll need to drive 5+ hours round trip for one but it will be worth it.
I'm definitely a long way from that point but that's part of my personality (problem also maybe). I'm always a big picture thinker and plan things out, even things far in the future. That's also a major source of conflict between me and my wife....she's a verrrry small picture, laser-focused type thinking. Which i think also played into this breakup, once she focused on me as a source of unhappiness that was it until i am gone And i don't mean to place any blame on her, that's just how her brain works.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Frank, I agree with what 25years said here, now is definitely a good time for counselling. As awful as this whole experience is, it is a good chance for some reflection, opening up, and making some real changes - that will benefit you for the rest of your life, regardless of what happens with your M. When choosing a counselor, you might want to try out a few, like 25years says, until you find one you get on with. How much you benefit will really depend on how well you get on with the counsellor and how much you can open up to them, plus there are different types of counseling so you might like some styles better than others.
I agree. Right now i'm open to change and self-exploration. I always knew i had faults, i just didn't know how or what to do to change.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
You sound wonderfully ripe for change. That's a great time for going. Besides, If not now, when?
Did you check out that personal growth workshop called "Essential Experience"? (Sorry but now I'm not even sure if I told you specifically about it but), it's in Philadelphia. It's also called "EE" for short.
It is for individuals to work on their issues, whether from work related problems or childhood issues resurfacing, alcohol, temper, or just some obstacles to overcome or goals to clarify, "EE" is excellent for it.
For me, therapy was usually very helpful. But some times it was "fragmented" B/c right after I had an insight or breakthrough, I'd have to go back to work or pick up the kids. Therapy was only an hour. The next week I'd have to regroup and start over.
So at times, for me, a long weekend workshop like EE was more effective at creating change and sticking to it. Definitely the most profound workshop I've attended, and since then I've gone back a few times to do "team", which is like a free refresher course.
You would get A LOT out of it, I think. Anyhow, just check out their website.
Then in time, if your w is amenable, attending Retrovaille is also a great idea. But it's for couples, not individuals. We went to that when we began piecing, which was a lot harder than I expected, and it was just what we needed then. -- Hang in there! GOOD LUCK, keep on keeping on.[/color]
It wasn't me but thanks for the info, i'll definitely check out that EE seminar. My family actually lives in the philly burbs so that might be perfect for when i visit. OMG That's^^ crazy great news! (I've had friends fly in from Alaska and Sweden to attend. Do check their website b/c they have one coming up, but they only do a few each year. )
I did hear about that Retrovaille thing before i think, but is it religious based? My wife is pretty adamantly atheist so that would be a big ask to get her to go even if they didn't bring faith into the actual process.
I understand ^^ this. My h is no longer a believer, although he can handle the word "God" being said. I had some fears about it being "too Catholic" (for him, not me, b/c I am Catholic). I worried that they'd say we had to go to Mass together, etc.
For the record, if we were just dating, his non belief would now be a deal breaker for me. But that's my own internal dilemma as his wife of 30+ years.
But at our Retrovaille, which was "Catholic", there was a retired priest in the background, who volunteered to have anyone "who had a bad experience with the Church or clergy" to come talk to him. I thought that was pretty brave of him. I didn't hear him say a word about attending Mass together or praying together, although one of the team couples suggested that it helped THEM when they began to piece their marriage back together. Also, their stories tend to make most of us feel pretty good about our situations b/c they have some heartbreaking stories (the death of a child, multiple affairs or out of wedlock children) that make your situations pale in comparison. At least that's how I felt.
At Retrovaille, it's almost all about the "Team couples" who share their stories with you, piece by piece (the order in which they tell their stories makes sense once you realize what they hope is revealed to you). AND there are readings and exercises each couple does with each other, or alone.
There is no need to publicly share private things. Also, someone on team will call each spouse before the retreat to discuss/end any affair if there is one, and that has to happen before the weekend.
I am fairly confident there are Retrovaille weekends for non believers, but obviously a lot fewer. In any case, there was NO attempt to indoctrinate or convert at ours, but if the mere word "God" offends her, that could be an issue.
This^^ is another reason a workshop like EE might also be great for you, even though it's about individual growth. I've never seen a couple Not benefit by having even just one of them go. If you improve as a person, you improve as a spouse.
I'm searching for counselors now, i'll need to drive 5+ hours round trip for one but it will be worth it.
Good grief, where the heck do you live? How hard will it be to move? (But yes it will be well worth it!)
I'm definitely a long way from that point but that's part of my personality (problem also maybe). I'm always a big picture thinker and plan things out, even things far in the future. That's also a major source of conflict between me and my wife....she's a verrrry small picture, laser-focused type thinking. Do you mean she lives more in the now, being fully present in the moment more? That's not unhealthy...
Which i think also played into this breakup, once she focused on me as a source of unhappiness that was it until i am gone And i don't mean to place any blame on her, that's just how her brain works.
I'm not saying you are "Blaming" her here^^ but I crossed it out b/c it does not help you to put your focus on her.
You cannot heal without detaching
and you cannot detach without Gal and that means making yourself and the life you want to create, your sole focus.
Later on, you can monitor for results.
Make sense?
Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 01/27/1502:43 AM.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
OMG That's^^ crazy great news! (I've had friends fly in from Alaska and Sweden to attend. Do check their website b/c they have one coming up, but they only do a few each year. ) [/color]
I did hear about that Retrovaille thing before i think, but is it religious based? My wife is pretty adamantly atheist so that would be a big ask to get her to go even if they didn't bring faith into the actual process.
I understand ^^ this. My h is no longer a believer, although he can handle the word "God" being said. I had some fears about it being "too Catholic" (for him, not me, b/c I am Catholic). I worried that they'd say we had to go to Mass together, etc.
For the record, if we were just dating, his non belief would now be a deal breaker for me. But that's my own internal dilemma as his wife of 30+ years.
But at our Retrovaille, which was "Catholic", there was a retired priest in the background, who volunteered to have anyone "who had a bad experience with the Church or clergy" to come talk to him. I thought that was pretty brave of him. I didn't hear him say a word about attending Mass together or praying together, although one of the team couples suggested that it helped THEM when they began to piece their marriage back together. Also, their stories tend to make most of us feel pretty good about our situations b/c they have some heartbreaking stories (the death of a child, multiple affairs or out of wedlock children) that make your situations pale in comparison. At least that's how I felt.
At Retrovaille, it's almost all about the "Team couples" who share their stories with you, piece by piece (the order in which they tell their stories makes sense once you realize what they hope is revealed to you). AND there are readings and exercises each couple does with each other, or alone.
There is no need to publicly share private things. Also, someone on team will call each spouse before the retreat to discuss/end any affair if there is one, and that has to happen before the weekend.
I am fairly confident there are Retrovaille weekends for non believers, but obviously a lot fewer. In any case, there was NO attempt to indoctrinate or convert at ours, but if the mere word "God" offends her, that could be an issue.
This^^ is another reason a workshop like EE might also be great for you, even though it's about individual growth. I've never seen a couple Not benefit by having even just one of them go. If you improve as a person, you improve as a spouse.
I'm searching for counselors now, i'll need to drive 5+ hours round trip for one but it will be worth it.
Good grief, where the heck do you live? How hard will it be to move? (But yes it will be well worth it!)
I'm not saying you are "Blaming" her here^^ but I crossed it out b/c it does not help you to put your focus on her.
You cannot heal without detaching
and you cannot detach without Gal and that means making yourself and the life you want to create, your sole focus.
Later on, you can monitor for results.
Make sense?[/color]
i know, weird coincidence. and Retrovaille i think is on the other side of the state.
As for that, sad as it is a major reason she's so anti-church now is because before we got married and we inquired at our local catholic church (I am/was catholic) and the priest there had such a NASTY reaction when he found out she wasn't baptized. It mortified me and made my wife feel so ashamed, it was just a bad scene. So we wound up eloping in bermuda. Anyway, sorry for the tangent but that's why it would be very hard to get her to go to something like that.
We're north of spokane right on the bc border. nothing much up here besides forest. it's beautiful but so lonely when you're in a situation like i am. moving won't be too hard, i plan on living minimalist. plate/fork/knife/laptop/futon lol
After 3+ years here living like it's 1890 (with internet) i'm getting kind of excited to live near people again, have a new apartment, gym/pool etc. Small steps
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
How did it go with the doctor? Did you manage to get an appointment for this week? And did you manage to book a counsellor?
Wow, where you live sounds VERY remote! Maybe living somewhere with more people will be good then, should definitely help you GAL and get out and see/meet people. Make an effort to get out and make some friends once you've moved.
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
No dice on doctor appointments yet. There's only a few "in town" (2+ hour round trip) and i guess there's a flu epidemic going on. The few people i called laughed when i asked about getting me in this week.
Also no on counselors, i'll have to go way further for one and i'm trying to time it to coincide with possible apartment visits
I'm obviously going back and forth moodwise/being optimistic. I really need to make flight plans to visit my parents before i move to an apartment just because it will be much easier. One of my biggest fears in life is flying so that's a major impediment. I need to just pull the trigger, but the costs associated with it are also holding me back ($600+ flight, car rental etc). Not to mention i need to be able to go there and JUST visit, i don't want to bring any of this stuff up so i need to be mentally strong. I know i should talk about it with them, i just can't do it right now Partly because it's hard and partly because i guess i'm still in denial, still don't want to bring it up in case a miracle occurs between me and my wife. Once i bring it up, it's "out there" in the wild and i can never bring it back. My parents love her and i don't want to taint their opinion of her or anything like that unless i need to. Because even if i say "it's not her fault" they won't care.
In other news, she came back last night from her night in a hotel. She was nice, we hugged, joked a little, then i gave her the bed and i took the couch. She works second shift today and basically stayed in bed all morning and said about 10 words to me before leaving. Which, sad to say, was par for the course of the last month or two. At least she didn't bring up moving again, nothing worse than feeling pressured to move. I know she wants me out, i'm sorry i need more than a wee or two to wrap my head around it.
I know things like this are detrimental and i know i need to get out if nothing changes (or gets worse), it's just a terribly hard thing to wrap my head around at times. I wish these surges of enthusiasm/optimism/whatever would come more often. I'm just having a bad day i guess.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
And i do recognize right now we're both doing the same things we did to lead us here (avoiding the subject/avoiding each other). I emailed her some thoughts the other day when she left for hotel stay #2 and she said she read them but "can't reply"....i'm not sure whether she's too emotional to reply, or doesn't want to break my heart further.
And then when she came home i wanted to try and discuss things but the fear of rejection kept me from it just because the first few convos, she was just 10000% done. So anything I bring up would obviously be aimed towards the positive and i just haven't felt like being chopped back down. I told her in one of the emails that i will always love her and she can't stop me from showing her that love and proving it through my actions. Probably the wrong thing to do but I couldn't help it at the time. She didn't reply anyway so i guess it doesn't matter.
I know i'm supposed to detach and gal, i know that. but when she's here and i feel her energy it's just so hard. Like she said the other day "this would be so much easier if you were angry"...it would be but neither of us are those kind of people. It kills me that what i did forced her to this point.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
And to make the day even worse she emailed me a few minutes ago telling me she "needs this" and she's solid in her decision (i never asked her not to be). She offered again to help me find an apartment and to do a short term rental to avoid being trapped there in case i want to move elsewhere.
She has all of the answers for how to physically get me to move on, too bad those aren't the answers i need right now
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
No dice on doctor appointments yet. There's only a few "in town" (2+ hour round trip) and i guess there's a flu epidemic going on. The few people i called laughed when i asked about getting me in this week. So Call a psychologist or psychiatrist, and or a social worker or psychologist who works with MDs b/c they can help you get prescriptions. Tell them you are in an "urgent" situation.
Then imagine for example, anti anxiety meds that keep you from constantly pressing her for answers or engaging in "relationship talk" - which is a big NO NO for you right now.
AND OR getting something to help you sleep. I know that when I could not sleep, I also tended not to exercise, or get outside much, which made me feel worse and began a bad cycle.
For ME, just getting a good night's sleep, helped me feel alright enough to take brisk 2-3 miles walks (or as I referred to them, "Fury marches") and that helped me eat better, feel better, look better, and set a better example for the kids too.
Also no on counselors, i'll have to go way further for one and i'm trying to time it to coincide with possible apartment visits
See above. Are you near Wenatchee? I happen to know a few in that area. Yes it is beautiful there, but too remote without a large family or friends nearby.
Do you recall why you chose to live there originally?
I'm obviously going back and forth moodwise/being optimistic. I really need to make flight plans to visit my parents before i move to an apartment just because it will be much easier. One of my biggest fears in life is flying so that's a major impediment. I need to just pull the trigger, but the costs associated with it are also holding me back ($600+ flight, car rental etc). Not to mention i need to be able to go there and JUST visit, i don't want to bring any of this stuff up so i need to be mentally strong.
I know i should talk about it with them, i just can't do it right now Partly because it's hard and partly because i guess i'm still in denial, still don't want to bring it up in case a miracle occurs between me and my wife. Once i bring it up, it's "out there" in the wild and i can never bring it back.
Wow. You do have a lot of FEARS and self created/inflicted obstacles in your life. Sense any patterns?
Do you see now, that giving power to our fears of something, can actually create the very conditions that lead to the event we fear, then happening?
By way of analogy, I've seen several spouses here who admit they were controlling and jealous and insecure. They admitted that they over reacted to things and got more controlling when their spouses balked.
Eventually, these fear laden spouses, pushed their loved ones into the arms of another.
So these people effectively caused the very event they feared. Not to mention the self fulfilling prophecies that happen too.
Furthermore, note that there is a cost to NOT confronting or admitting problems.
Rather than helping a real problem "go away" by neglecting to address it, it (always) leads to a worsening of the problem.
I don't mean trivial things, but actual issues or conflicts of merit.
None of those problems "go away" on their own. They are either repressed and not dealt with (which makes some people think the problem is gone, but it's not). When a problem is ignored by someone, the other person feels that their spouse "doesn't get them" or "gets them but doesn't care" to address the issue;
and the unsolved problem leads to resentment, which sabotages the relationship AND OR creates a chasm between the spouses, which can lead to the disintegration of the marriage, and or an affair.
If you don't tell your parents a thing, they'll be unable to help or support you and you need that a lot right now. Who knows what you'll lose out on then?
And by not even allowing them the chance to offer loving support, they lose out too.
As a parent, I'd be deepy hurt if my son/daughter did not share that painful and serious issue with me. How do you think they will feel, when you tell them months from now, and by long distance? Do you see how much more difficult you'll make it for them to help YOU, and or to feel included in your life?
IMO, They will likely feel left out, at best. They'll know they were deceived.
So in reality, you are damaging your r with them, by having what you surely recognize is an irrational belief that telling them this, somehow worsens something. Unless they are the type of people to insert themselves into your wife's life, It doesn't.
I wonder if you are just so used to not dealing, (which means your fears dictate your behaviors) that you are stuck or paralyzed by the fears you empower.
My parents love her and i don't want to taint their opinion of her or anything like that unless i need to. Because even if i say "it's not her fault" they won't care.
Meaning what? They'll blame her? Well, first off, so what? How does that harm you?
How does it hurt the marriage? They are not going to call her up and scream, are they?
Secondly, do You really believe that they are incapable of forgiving her, for whatever it is that needs forgiving, if you two work things out? Think again and this time, for 2 minutes, take the fear out of your analysis.
Also, there are ways of informing them that you are in a marital crisis, without blaming anyone. Believe me.
In other news, she came back last night from her night in a hotel. She was nice, we hugged, joked a little, then i gave her the bed and i took the couch. She works second shift today and basically stayed in bed all morning and said about 10 words to me before leaving. Which, sad to say, was par for the course of the last month or two. At least she didn't bring up moving again, nothing worse than feeling pressured to move. I know she wants me out, i'm sorry i need more than a wee or two to wrap my head around it. Who is the focus^^ of this paragraph? Much like most of your posts, it's HER.
I know you read the long post I sent yesterday, but you need to take it IN.
I know things like this are detrimental and i know i need to get out if nothing changes (or gets worse), it's just a terribly hard thing to wrap my head around at times. I wish these surges of enthusiasm/optimism/whatever would come more often. I'm just having a bad day i guess.
I am reading so much powerlessness in this^^^.
You have to take charge of your life. No one else will. No one else can.
Man, I really hope you get to EE as soon as you can. (I think there's a discount if you sign up before a certain date. )
Frank, you're too young to give up on life like this. That's how I read your posts...as if nothing is in your control. That isn't true.
You are continuing to "hope" you have better days and "guessing" that you might...that is no way to live.
Have you viewed either of the 2 TEDTALK videos? There is nothing fearful about them.
The topic of Doing/Behaving in new ways, and THEN "feeling" better,
(rather than the reverse, in which one waits around to "feel better" and "hopes" they will, someday, so they can THEN do the things happy people do)
is key to your life improving. You need to take that^^ information in.
I hope you will fear much less, b/c it's keeping you stuck, and sometimes those fears are actually making your life worse. So, do more, fear less.
Are you ready to take charge of your life?
Then let's Act on that.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
- I told her in one of the emails that i will always love her and she can't stop me from showing her that love and proving it through my actions. Probably the wrong thing to do but I couldn't help it at the time. She didn't reply anyway so i guess it doesn't matter. I know i'm supposed to detach and gal, i know that. but when she's here and i feel her energy it's just so hard. Newsflash....None of us found any of this easy. We all found it very HARD. Yes, as in the hardest thing any of us have ever done.
However in the long run, divorce is a lot harder. Since, chances are that doing more of the same has gotten you to this point where divorce is likely, you will need to DO different things.
We all had to do NEW SCARY things. Forgiving, and or getting way out of our comfort zones, letting go of the past, letting go of what we cannot control (huge!), meeting new people, learning patience, having to move, share our children with 3rd parties, or changing jobs, dating, learning to be alone, etc.
We ALL had a hard time. You cannot let that keep you paralyzed and assume that if something is hard, it must not be the right course of action. In fact I think it's the opposite.
I think the dilemmas we face many times, like choosing between Option A or Option B, is that we know down deep the right choice is usually the harder one.
(B/c if the easier choice were really the "right" one, we'd have seen it and done it already)>
So when in doubt, know that the correct choice is usually the "harder" one. You just do it anyhow, even when it's hard.
When you think about it, this is just part of being an adult.
Like she said the other day "this would be so much easier if you were angry"...it would be but neither of us are those kind of people. It kills me that what i did forced her to this point.
So what are you going to DO different?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Me 47/W 34 T 16 M 13 No kids BD 6/2013 W asked that I move out 6/2013 I moved back and W is upset with this 12/2013 separate beds not much talking Served D Complaint 5/2014 W moved out 9/27/2014
Thanks so much 25, i needed that. You hit the nail on the head though, i've been living based on fear for years now. Fear that if i say something or do something wrong she'll leave and you are right, for just those reasons (my lack of action due to fear) she wants to leave.
And i'm scared shitless right now of losing her so it's just more of the same. Part of this fear though is how badly i handled the first separation years ago and how letting her walk away that time led to a lot of these current issues. I know i need to do things differently, i just don't know how or what to do. She wants me out of her life right now and just moving out feels totally wrong to me.
I didn't mean to make it seem like what i'm going through is any different, i apologize. I'll reply again tomorrow and address all of your points/questions when i'm not quite so emotional. Right now i need to take a breather and put my game face back on before she gets home from work.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Feel the fear and do it anyway. What is the worst case senioro. Look at that and know no matter what you will be ok. There is a book by that name too. Hint hint
Me 52 H 44 T9 M 5 BD 12/11 H split 8/12 OW moved in 12/12 OW gone for good 6/14 We get closer again 9/14 SD 13 Me 4 Grown
Accept what is...let go of what was and have faith in what will be.
And i do recognize right now we're both doing the same things we did to lead us here (avoiding the subject/avoiding each other). I emailed her some thoughts the other day when she left for hotel stay #2 and she said she read them but "can't reply"....i'm not sure whether she's too emotional to reply, or doesn't want to break my heart further.
And then when she came home i wanted to try and discuss things but the fear of rejection kept me from it just because the first few convos, she was just 10000% done. So anything I bring up would obviously be aimed towards the positive and i just haven't felt like being chopped back down. I told her in one of the emails that i will always love her and she can't stop me from showing her that love and proving it through my actions. Probably the wrong thing to do but I couldn't help it at the time. She didn't reply anyway so i guess it doesn't matter.
I know i'm supposed to detach and gal, i know that. but when she's here and i feel her energy it's just so hard. Like she said the other day "this would be so much easier if you were angry"...it would be but neither of us are those kind of people. It kills me that what i did forced her to this point.
Frank, I don't think you should be writing her any more emails at this point, it will just make her feel more pursued and pressured. I know that's hard when it's so fresh, and I made the same mistake of emailing prior to finding DB, but I don't think it will help. Pursuing won't be helpful.
I know it's really hard, and it's something i'm still working on myself, but you need to forgive yourself, and your W, for your mistakes. You won't be able to be happy in yourself until you do.
About the doctor, what did you say on the phone? I'm not saying to lie or anything, but I hope you were really honest with them about your situation. Did you tell them how anxious and depressed you were feeling? Again, I'm not advocating lying, but this is a serious situation and I hope you emphasized to them how much you need help right now, and quickly. My doctor was able to shift a few things around and see me in one of their "urgent" appointments (they save a few in case of emergency) because they felt the situation was serious enough. Did you ask if they can call you in case of a cancellation?
Originally Posted By: Frank75
And i'm scared shitless right now of losing her so it's just more of the same. Part of this fear though is how badly i handled the first separation years ago and how letting her walk away that time led to a lot of these current issues. I know i need to do things differently, i just don't know how or what to do. She wants me out of her life right now and just moving out feels totally wrong to me.
Not sure if I'm understanding the previous situation correctly, but I don't know if "let her walk away" is the right thing to say. It makes it sound like you could have stopped her, which you couldn't then and you can't now. Much as we'd like to stop our spouses leaving, we can't control their actions (a lesson I'm still learning myself!).
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
Wow. You do have a lot of FEARS and self created/inflicted obstacles in your life. Sense any patterns?
Do you see now, that giving power to our fears of something, can actually create the very conditions that lead to the event we fear, then happening?
By way of analogy, I've seen several spouses here who admit they were controlling and jealous and insecure. They admitted that they over reacted to things and got more controlling when their spouses balked.
Eventually, these fear laden spouses, pushed their loved ones into the arms of another.
So these people effectively caused the very event they feared. Not to mention the self fulfilling prophecies that happen too.
Wow 25, just wanted to say this was absolutely brilliant (as were your comments on making hard choices and how the hard one's usually the right one when stuck). It really resonated with me (I have a lot of fears too) and I've copied it into a 'words of wisdom' doc I'm keeping with some of the best thoughts I've picked up here. Thank you for sharing!
Also - "fury marches" made me laugh. I have done many of those walks, usually while blasting music, but I haven't called them that - but I think I will now!
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
I appreciate the replies everyone, it means a lot to me. Sorry i can't reply back right now. Just wanted to update that i called all over and finally found a doctor to see me today. They originally couldn't get me in until next week but they must have heard the desperation in my voice and called back. I'll update tonight or tomorrow.
One day at a time.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Hey Frank, that's good news. It's never a bad idea to sound a little desperate, when it comes to Drs appointments. Hope it goes well. Are you going to ask about IC too?
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Hey Frank, wanted to chime in here about the fear. One of the things that's been helping me is the definition of courage. As it was explained to me years ago by someone I admired: Courage is the ability to face a fear head on and still move forward.
This is a scary as hell time in our lives. I feel the fear daily, and at the same time it's getting easier to deal with. Understand that your fear comes from the fact you love your wife. She is your world. Embrace it. Then keep moving on. By being here you have taken the first step towards facing that fear and seeking advice on how to move forward.
Really take a look at yourself and see what parts of you that you don't like. Accept the fact that you contributed to where you are and then beginning changing those things you are not proud of. Become the better person. Become the man a woman would be a fool to leave.
M: 8.5 T:10 Me:37 W:34 S:6
Retrouvaille and W moves back- 7/31/15 Piecing - 7/4/15 to present
i've been living based on fear for years now. Fear that if i say something or do something wrong she'll leave and you are right, for just those reasons (my lack of action due to fear) she wants to leave.
Why are you so afraid of being left? Were you abandoned when you were a child?
This is a horrible way to live life. It has ruined your MR and made you emotionally dependent on your W. Women are not attracted to men who are not strong enough to stand on their own two feet.
Have you ever had therapy for your issues?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hey Frank, wanted to chime in here about the fear. One of the things that's been helping me is the definition of courage. As it was explained to me years ago by someone I admired: Courage is the ability to face a fear head on and still move forward.
This is a scary as hell time in our lives. I feel the fear daily, and at the same time it's getting easier to deal with. Understand that your fear comes from the fact you love your wife. She is your world. Embrace it. Then keep moving on. By being here you have taken the first step towards facing that fear and seeking advice on how to move forward.
Really take a look at yourself and see what parts of you that you don't like. Accept the fact that you contributed to where you are and then beginning changing those things you are not proud of. Become the better person. Become the man a woman would be a fool to leave.
Thanks for the encouragement man, it means a lot. I'm in the process of trying. I'm calling a counselor that my dr referred me to today and trying to make plans to fly out to visit my parents. My dr thinks it's a great idea for me and to give me wife 2+ weeks of solitude.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
i've been living based on fear for years now. Fear that if i say something or do something wrong she'll leave and you are right, for just those reasons (my lack of action due to fear) she wants to leave.
Why are you so afraid of being left? Were you abandoned when you were a child?
This is a horrible way to live life. It has ruined your MR and made you emotionally dependent on your W. Women are not attracted to men who are not strong enough to stand on their own two feet.
Have you ever had therapy for your issues?
Why wouldn't anyone be afraid to be left? I really didn't think about it in terms of fear until she brought it up last year. I mean, i love her tremendously, we've been together for 1/2 our lives. Something like that doesn't just disappear. I mean, the way i handled it sucked, i know that know. Being afraid to bring things up but there's nothing i can do about it now besides apologize
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Frank, I haven't been on these boards in a long time and felt compelled to log on today, this place was a tremendous help to me. While you are going through one of the most tramatic experiences ever PLEASE hear the advice you are getting. I know it's hard, I do I was there, but there's hope. I know you have probably heard this a million times on here... INVEST in you! Who do you want to be? And become that. My W told me we would never get back together. She was a gazillion % sure moved out(for a year), new bank account, new friends etc etc. Well she came back and I realize that her leaving was the best thing to ever happen to me, not because I saw all the ways I wronged her but because it helped cultivate some positive habits in my life. She's totally in love with the man i've become, and more importantly I am too.
Learn to be comfortable with your presence, no one else can if you can't. Sandi is right, women are not attracted to weak men(not healthy women). You can do this! There is no failure only feedback. Oh and one other thing get out of your head, have 0 expectations. Hope you can glean something from this.
Why wouldn't anyone be afraid to be left? I really didn't think about it in terms of fear until she brought it up last year. I mean, i love her tremendously, we've been together for 1/2 our lives. Something like that doesn't just disappear.
B/c you are talking like a little boy is afraid of the dark. You are not sounding like a mature man who is secure in himself enough to know he would survive and move on and make the most of his life.....even learn to enjoy it.
Most of us may not choose or desire to live without our S, however, we are not paralyzed by the very thought of it. What kind of life do you have when you are walking on egg shells, afraid of saying or doing something that pi$$ her off and then she'll leave? I can tell you what kind......miserable!
You have become a second class citizen in your own home. You won't stand up to your grown daughter...who clearly shows you disrespect, and you won't stand up to your WAW...who clearly shows you disrespect. Is your grandchild a boy or girl? Doesn't matter, b/c you are teaching him/her what role the man plays. If he's a boy, he'll grow up to be like his grandfather who sits on pins & needles, enduring abuse from some woman. If she's a girl, she won't have a decent R with any man in her life, b/c she will believe he should lay down and allow her to walk on him.
We women want our man to be stronger than we are. I'm talking about an inner strength. We will test our man to see if he if he really has what it takes to stand up to us. If he's too weak, we lose attraction and respect for him. Will he get eyeball to eyeball with us and let us know he won't be a doormat, or say "Yes dear" and shut-up?
If you could just see how your thoughts are damaging and defeating yourself. How can you DB when you are so afraid that you just sit and wait, hoping things will get better in time. It is unhealthy, Frank.
Do you like to read? If so, there is a lot of self-help books out there.....not to mention what is on the Internet.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks for the encouragement man, it means a lot. I'm in the process of trying. I'm calling a counselor that my dr referred me to today and trying to make plans to fly out to visit my parents. My dr thinks it's a great idea for me and to give me wife 2+ weeks of solitude.
Frank - so glad you are going to visit your parents. Use the time wisely away from your wife, to work on yourself (you might want to think about whether you'll have any contact with her while you're away - or if you're going to "go dark"). And enjoy your time with your parents, hope you can open up to them.
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
Frank, I haven't been on these boards in a long time and felt compelled to log on today, this place was a tremendous help to me. While you are going through one of the most tramatic experiences ever PLEASE hear the advice you are getting. I know it's hard, I do I was there, but there's hope. I know you have probably heard this a million times on here... INVEST in you! Who do you want to be? And become that. My W told me we would never get back together. She was a gazillion % sure moved out(for a year), new bank account, new friends etc etc. Well she came back and I realize that her leaving was the best thing to ever happen to me, not because I saw all the ways I wronged her but because it helped cultivate some positive habits in my life. She's totally in love with the man i've become, and more importantly I am too.
Learn to be comfortable with your presence, no one else can if you can't. Sandi is right, women are not attracted to weak men(not healthy women). You can do this! There is no failure only feedback. Oh and one other thing get out of your head, have 0 expectations. Hope you can glean something from this.
I hope it doesn't seem like i'm not listening, i am. I'm trying to absorb a ton of things at once and it's just a process to get through it all. And I take stories like yours to heart, i really do. For me this is like 12 days old and still a very fresh wound. Just yesterday i was calling a crisis hotline to try and deal with it.
Just an example, i NEVER go to the doctor...ever. I don't take drugs...ever...not even aspirin. For me to call a doctor for help with panic/anxiety, and then subsequently have a breakdown in the office while talking about it was the biggest jump i've taken in years. I know i have a ton of faults, and thanks to the people here i'm learning more about myself on a daily basis. I know i'm emotionally weak when it comes to my wife and i know i've let fear dictate a lot of things around my relationship. I just need to take it a day at a time and get over these hurdles and learn from past mistakes.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Why wouldn't anyone be afraid to be left? I really didn't think about it in terms of fear until she brought it up last year. I mean, i love her tremendously, we've been together for 1/2 our lives. Something like that doesn't just disappear.
B/c you are talking like a little boy is afraid of the dark. You are not sounding like a mature man who is secure in himself enough to know he would survive and move on and make the most of his life.....even learn to enjoy it.
Most of us may not choose or desire to live without our S, however, we are not paralyzed by the very thought of it. What kind of life do you have when you are walking on egg shells, afraid of saying or doing something that pi$$ her off and then she'll leave? I can tell you what kind......miserable!
You have become a second class citizen in your own home. You won't stand up to your grown daughter...who clearly shows you disrespect, and you won't stand up to your WAW...who clearly shows you disrespect. Is your grandchild a boy or girl? Doesn't matter, b/c you are teaching him/her what role the man plays. If he's a boy, he'll grow up to be like his grandfather who sits on pins & needles, enduring abuse from some woman. If she's a girl, she won't have a decent R with any man in her life, b/c she will believe he should lay down and allow her to walk on him.
We women want our man to be stronger than we are. I'm talking about an inner strength. We will test our man to see if he if he really has what it takes to stand up to us. If he's too weak, we lose attraction and respect for him. Will he get eyeball to eyeball with us and let us know he won't be a doormat, or say "Yes dear" and shut-up?
If you could just see how your thoughts are damaging and defeating yourself. How can you DB when you are so afraid that you just sit and wait, hoping things will get better in time. It is unhealthy, Frank.
Do you like to read? If so, there is a lot of self-help books out there.....not to mention what is on the Internet.
Thanks again for the tough love. I'm feeling much better today. Yesterday and the day before i was at a super super low point. I was mentally and emotionally exhausted, no sleep, no food and really close to imploding. I'm generally an emotional guy but i never really thought of myself as weak or living in fear before but after 25 and you brought it to my attention i wrapped my head around it. I finally got the DR book today and already read about 30% of it, i'm always in favor of bettering myself and always open to new things.
I know right now i need to pick myself up and take steps to better myself and move on. Like i said in my previous post, as dumb as it sounds going to a doctor is a major step for me. The next major steps will be making an appointment with a counselor (tomorrow) and then booking tickets to visit family (next week).
My wife knows i hate doctors and when she came home yesterday from work she saw the prescriptions laying there and asked about it and i told her i went to try and get myself sorted and the look on her face was partial bewilderment and partial happiness. I in no way did it for her, i did it for myself, but it made me realize that in a nutshell is what DB is all about. Make changes for yourself, hedge your bets. Worst case scenario i'll come out of this hellish period of my life a much better person, frank 2.0
Last edited by Frank75; 01/30/1504:14 AM.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Thanks for the encouragement man, it means a lot. I'm in the process of trying. I'm calling a counselor that my dr referred me to today and trying to make plans to fly out to visit my parents. My dr thinks it's a great idea for me and to give me wife 2+ weeks of solitude.
Frank - so glad you are going to visit your parents. Use the time wisely away from your wife, to work on yourself (you might want to think about whether you'll have any contact with her while you're away - or if you're going to "go dark"). And enjoy your time with your parents, hope you can open up to them.
Thanks Susana. I think the pills the doctor prescribed will really help with that. Before yesterday i was honestly having full blown breakdowns multiple times a day. I was just so emotionally raw even commercials where making my cry. These pills seem to have taken a major chunk of that away, and i'm so thankful for finally going and getting them. I don't know how i lasted 11+ days in that state of mind, it was ridiculous.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
It is amazing what a good nights sleep can do. I'm so glad you went to the DR.
You are going to have good days and bad days. Your whole life has been turned upside down so yes...of course your upset. But you know what. You are still on this planet and you still have a life. Start your own self discovery journey. Be a friend to yourself. That old passage you have to love yourself first....it's true.
Read...exercise...keep busy.
Me 52 H 44 T9 M 5 BD 12/11 H split 8/12 OW moved in 12/12 OW gone for good 6/14 We get closer again 9/14 SD 13 Me 4 Grown
Accept what is...let go of what was and have faith in what will be.
Thanks Susana. I think the pills the doctor prescribed will really help with that. Before yesterday i was honestly having full blown breakdowns multiple times a day. I was just so emotionally raw even commercials where making my cry. These pills seem to have taken a major chunk of that away, and i'm so thankful for finally going and getting them. I don't know how i lasted 11+ days in that state of mind, it was ridiculous.
SO glad to hear you went to the doctor and got the medicine, I could hear the anguish in your writing and I was worried about you. It's a rough place to be, you're less than 2 weeks in. Hopefully the meds will take some of the pain and anxiety away, and allow you to think more clearly and focus on a plan to GAL. Have you booked the tickets to your parents yet? It might help just knowing it's booked and on the horizon - something to look forward to.
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
It is amazing what a good nights sleep can do. I'm so glad you went to the DR.
You are going to have good days and bad days. Your whole life has been turned upside down so yes...of course your upset. But you know what. You are still on this planet and you still have a life. Start your own self discovery journey. Be a friend to yourself. That old passage you have to love yourself first....it's true.
Read...exercise...keep busy.
Thanks, I'm trying
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
SO glad to hear you went to the doctor and got the medicine, I could hear the anguish in your writing and I was worried about you. It's a rough place to be, you're less than 2 weeks in. Hopefully the meds will take some of the pain and anxiety away, and allow you to think more clearly and focus on a plan to GAL. Have you booked the tickets to your parents yet? It might help just knowing it's booked and on the horizon - something to look forward to.
I can't remember the names of what she gave me but it definitely works. I'm still depressed but not a ball of stress/nerves/panic anymore
I'm going to try and call again today about counseling, once i know that date i'm going to get plane tickets
In other news she told me that she filed for divorce last night despite us talking previously about that. She said she "didn't want to lead me on", so i got upset with her and she cried for once and told me something about having 3 months before it takes effect blah blah blah.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
She called me from work a few minutes ago. I guess she was still upset about this morning so she apologized for filing the papers and explained why she did it (goes back to me not listening to her before).
So the phone call basically ended up as me moving out in a few weeks, us remaining friends and we'll hang out a few times a month, and calling this a separation because time apart will be good for us at this point since right now living together is just too emotional and volatile. She paid $300 to file for divorce so she said she'll leave it active "just in case" but for right now she's just considering it a separation.
We even discussed how an apartment in the city would have been good for us regardless, either to use together when we want to go out to dinner/movies etc or just as a way for either of us to "get away" for a few days
I feel like that 30 minute phone call i just had with her was way more productive than any face to faces we've had over the last few weeks. I told her about the DR book also and she agreed to read it so that's good.
Don't get me wrong though, i'm still carrying that mantra: "Trust nothing she says and half of what she does". I can not be hurt like this again.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Hi Frank - glad that you had a productive call with you W. You sound a bit brighter.
Just one comment - DR/DB is intended for us alone. But you have already mentioned it to your W, so you are where you are. But the thing is I would leave it there. Don't push or mention that any further now - leave it well along. If your W is interested enough, she'll sort herself out with the book and read it...
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Glad to hear you are feeling better, yet still keeping yourself grounded!
I think the hardest part is keeping hope alive while equally steeling yourself for the semi constant lies and deception. Currently I keep realising lies I've been told and believed unquestionably at the time were so obvious! But now it's hard to trust anything positive that's said.
I hope that this is a breakthrough as it gives me hope for my own sitch, and even if not your strength is a great inspiration of where I need to get to!
T:13 yrs M:11 Me: 36 Her: 33 Living apart Her having affair She Asked me to move out 26th jan 2015 3 kids D13 S10 D10 D not mentioned yet
Hi Frank - glad that you had a productive call with you W. You sound a bit brighter.
Just one comment - DR/DB is intended for us alone. But you have already mentioned it to your W, so you are where you are. But the thing is I would leave it there. Don't push or mention that any further now - leave it well along. If your W is interested enough, she'll sort herself out with the book and read it...
I was stuck at the time. I admitted I made so many mistakes and didn't know how to start fixing things and she mentioned books so that's when i told her about it. I really wanted her to read the first few chapters anyway since it's basically describing us 100%. So many things in that book are things she's done and said and i just want her to realize this is all 'normal' and people come back from it all and become happy again.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Glad to hear you are feeling better, yet still keeping yourself grounded!
I think the hardest part is keeping hope alive while equally steeling yourself for the semi constant lies and deception. Currently I keep realising lies I've been told and believed unquestionably at the time were so obvious! But now it's hard to trust anything positive that's said.
I hope that this is a breakthrough as it gives me hope for my own sitch, and even if not your strength is a great inspiration of where I need to get to!
I know what you mean. I'm seriously hoping she was being honest with me yesterday about calling this a separation. I keep going back and forth in my head about whether she's being honest or just using it as a way to calm me down and get me out. Could go either way but i'm trying to be more optimistic these days so we'll see what happens. Worst case scenario, it eased me into single life without being so mentally and emotionally torturous.
She has promised to help me move, drive me to the airport, hang out after i move, IM/EMail etc. She sounded genuine yesterday. I'm not sure what prompted this aside from realizing filing for divorce without talking to me again was just a shi@@y thing to do. Also these meds are making me able to focus on just talking to her and not going off the deep end each time we interact.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Hi Frank - glad that you had a productive call with you W. You sound a bit brighter. Just one comment - DR/DB is intended for us alone. But you have already mentioned it to your W, so you are where you are. But the thing is I would leave it there. Don't push or mention that any further now - leave it well along. If your W is interested enough, she'll sort herself out with the book and read it...
I was stuck at the time. I admitted I made so many mistakes and didn't know how to start fixing things and she mentioned books so that's when i told her about it. THIS^^, I understand, though you could have just said you've "also been reading some very useful books"...
I really wanted her to read the first few chapters anyway since it's basically describing us 100%.
THIS^^ is you trying to control her and the outcome of the situation.
THIS^^ is you having expectations, regardless of what you tell yourself.
THIS^^ is not helping you. The books and the advice here about NOT recommending the books, are said for very good reasons.
You have to start believing that the author has some insight and experience in this area, and accepting that your needs and wants are not unheard of or all that unusual. We get it. Don't pooh pooh it.
In the years I've been here, I've still never advised my h to read the books.
So many things in that book are things she's done and said and i just want her to realize this is all 'normal' and people come back from it all and become happy again.
See above comments re: expectations and controlling outcome, for more of the same. "I just want her to realize"...and "people come back from it and ...." is exactly wanting HER to...blah blah blah
(so, back to YOU) Frank, "more of the same" is NOT what you need.
I'm really glad you got some meds so that you can refrain from this type of "raised expectation/control the outcome" mindset, and learn to face this as it comes,
trusting that you are indeed strong enough and open enough to learn new things and get new tools. I recall not sleeping well, for weeks, and sort of constantly feeling on the verge of having the flu. So when I got some sleep aids and then anti anxiety meds, the whole circular nature of this (and endlessly asking "WHY??") & poor sleep, abated.
Just those ^^ two things really helped.
Did you check out EE, or is that what you meant by getting plane tickets? I'm a little unclear.
Finally, keep on keeping on. Soon I hope, your screen name will change and evolve, as you are.
Maybe "I WAS gutted, but now I'm growing" or something new, and or a lot more hopeful... B/C as you grow from this (and growing from this is kind of the big "silver lining" to this whole ordeal),
you will gain a peace and strength within, that you may not have known for a long time.
That's worth sharing.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I think the hardest part is keeping hope alive while equally steeling yourself for the semi constant lies and deception. Currently I keep realising lies I've been told and believed unquestionably at the time were so obvious!
I - I keep going back and forth in my head about whether she's being honest or just using it as a way to calm me down and get me out. Could go either way but i'm trying to be more optimistic these days so we'll see what happens.
Worst case scenario, it eased me into single life without being so mentally and emotionally torturous. Then it has value that you can hold onto, regardless of outcome.
Just know you WILL be alright without her. If you don't know that, If you don't KNOW that you can be a happy strong man with or without this woman in your life,
then how could you really attract her back, and hold onto her anyhow?
do you get that?
Also, did you consult a lawyer before moving out? What is the risk you face by leaving? I'm asking b/c in some areas, you would lose the ability to claim the home as your place of occupation, and if there were children there could be claims of abandonment.
I hope you sought legal counsel about this...
She has promised to help me move, drive me to the airport, hang out after i move, IM/EMail etc. Frank, must you get a ride from her to the airport? There are no cabs? As for her promising to "hang out with" you and keep in touch,
what is that all about?
Do you see any problems with this obvious need of yours? Reminds me of when my ex bil divorced my younger sister and just after the divorce was granted, my younger sister asked her ex h for "a hug"....
(I just cringed.)
If someone filed to divorce me, I don't believe I'd be very interested in their scraps OR their promises. I'd think they "said" what they really felt about the marriage by filing to end it.
So if I were served paperwork for a divorce, THAT would more or less say it all.
Sure, maybe SHE will change her mind, (I have 2 family members who divorced, and years later, remarried their former spouses).
But meanwhile, what are YOU Doing with your life? Are you actually waiting to see what happens, with her? B/C that is the feeling I get.
I'm concerned that you may be missing the big picture here.
Remember the oft repeated adage around here,
"Believe nothing they say and only half of what they DO."
Frank, She has filed for divorce. That is what you KNOW.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Just one comment - DR/DB is intended for us alone. But you have already mentioned it to your W, so you are where you are.[/b] But the thing is I would leave it there. Don't push or mention that any further now - leave it well along. If your W is interested enough, she'll sort herself out with the book and read it...
I was torn about it but i was pretty sure she knew about it ahead of time since we still share an amazon account and she would have seen the orders. The last thing I wanted was to lie about anything
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
THIS^^ is you trying to control her and the outcome of the situation.
THIS^^ is you having expectations, regardless of what you tell yourself.
THIS^^ is not helping you. The books and the advice here about NOT recommending the books, are said for very good reasons.
You have to start believing that the author has some insight and experience in this area, and accepting that your needs and wants are not unheard of or all that unusual. We get it. Don't pooh pooh it.
In the years I've been here, I've still never advised my h to read the books.
I agree, it's a steep learning curve and i'm trying to identify my behavior that led me to this point and change.
I wish I knew about keeping the books quiet ahead of time, in my few weeks here i didn't see that mentioned anywhere
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
See above comments re: expectations and controlling outcome, for more of the same. "I just want her to realize"...and "people come back from it and ...." is exactly wanting HER to...blah blah blah
(so, back to YOU) Frank, "more of the same" is NOT what you need.
I'm really glad you got some meds so that you can refrain from this type of "raised expectation/control the outcome" mindset, and learn to face this as it comes,
trusting that you are indeed strong enough and open enough to learn new things and get new tools. I recall not sleeping well, for weeks, and sort of constantly feeling on the verge of having the flu. So when I got some sleep aids and then anti anxiety meds, the whole circular nature of this (and endlessly asking "WHY??") & poor sleep, abated.
Just those ^^ two things really helped.
Did you check out EE, or is that what you meant by getting plane tickets? I'm a little unclear.
Finally, keep on keeping on. Soon I hope, your screen name will change and evolve, as you are.
Maybe "I WAS gutted, but now I'm growing" or something new, and or a lot more hopeful... B/C as you grow from this (and growing from this is kind of the big "silver lining" to this whole ordeal),
you will gain a peace and strength within, that you may not have known for a long time.
That's worth sharing.[/color]
These meds definitely have helped me so much already. I attribute that "good" phone call yesterday to these meds. I was a complete mess before these and now i can actually think/breathe/sleep pretty decently. The constant onslaught of panic and anxiety is gone too. I'm making flight plans on monday after I talk to my boss too. I know you said before my life was ruled by fear and it was. I haven't been home in years because i'm petrified of flying but these pills are helping with that also, i'm actually reallllly looking forward to getting home and seeing my parents/grandmother/2 new nephews i've never met and the rest of my family. I think it will really help me out.
I won't have a car while i'm there so as for EE i'm going to see what my parents/brother are up to and if i can borrow a car or a ride to the train station. I'm hoping i'll be able to swing something though.
I am trying to identify those negative behaviors and i appreciate you pointing it out. I've lived almost 40 years like this and it's a challenge to change in a few weeks but i'm trying.
Once again, thanks for the help you're awesome.
M:39 W:35 Married: 12 years Together: 16 years No kids D bomb: 1/17/15 Filed 1/29/15 Moving out 2/2015
Just one comment - DR/DB is intended for us alone. But you have already mentioned it to your W, so you are where you are.[/b] But the thing is I would leave it there. Don't push or mention that any further now - leave it well along. If your W is interested enough, she'll sort herself out with the book and read it...
I was torn about it but i was pretty sure she knew about it ahead of time since we still share an amazon account and she would have seen the orders. The last thing I wanted was to lie about anything
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
THIS^^ is you trying to control her and the outcome of the situation.
THIS^^ is you having expectations, regardless of what you tell yourself.
THIS^^ is not helping you. The books and the advice here about NOT recommending the books, are said for very good reasons.
You have to start believing that the author has some insight and experience in this area, and accepting that your needs and wants are not unheard of or all that unusual. We get it. Don't pooh pooh it.
In the years I've been here, I've still never advised my h to read the books.
I agree, it's a steep learning curve and i'm trying to identify my behavior that led me to this point and change.
I wish I knew about keeping the books quiet ahead of time, in my few weeks here i didn't see that mentioned anywhere
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
See above comments re: expectations and controlling outcome, for more of the same. "I just want her to realize"...and "people come back from it and ...." is exactly wanting HER to...blah blah blah
(so, back to YOU) Frank, "more of the same" is NOT what you need.
I'm really glad you got some meds so that you can refrain from this type of "raised expectation/control the outcome" mindset, and learn to face this as it comes,
trusting that you are indeed strong enough and open enough to learn new things and get new tools. I recall not sleeping well, for weeks, and sort of constantly feeling on the verge of having the flu. So when I got some sleep aids and then anti anxiety meds, the whole circular nature of this (and endlessly asking "WHY??") & poor sleep, abated.
Just those ^^ two things really helped.
Did you check out EE, or is that what you meant by getting plane tickets? I'm a little unclear.
Finally, keep on keeping on. Soon I hope, your screen name will change and evolve, as you are.
Maybe "I WAS gutted, but now I'm growing" or something new, and or a lot more hopeful... B/C as you grow from this (and growing from this is kind of the big "silver lining" to this whole ordeal),
you will gain a peace and strength within, that you may not have known for a long time.
That's worth sharing.[/color]
These meds definitely have helped me so much already. I attribute that "good" phone call yesterday to these meds. I was a complete mess before these and now i can actually think/breathe/sleep pretty decently. The constant onslaught of panic and anxiety is gone too. I'm making flight plans on monday after I talk to my boss too. I know you said before my life was ruled by fear and it was. I haven't been home in years because i'm petrified of flying but these pills are helping with that also, i'm actually reallllly looking forward to getting home and seeing my parents/grandmother/2 new nephews i've never met and the rest of my family. I think it will really help me out.
While you are feeling calmer, you might also benefit from getting some cognitive tools so that in time, you'll do more than merely stay calm. You'll come up with new strategies for living your life more fully. Make sense?
I won't have a car while i'm there so as for EE i'm going to see what my parents/brother are up to and if i can borrow a car or a ride to the train station. I'm hoping i'll be able to swing something though.
Well, do what you will. I mean, I'm not getting a kickback or anything and I don't mean to pressure you.
But you cannot just "swing something through" a personal growth workshop. You actually have to plan. Besides, you rarely go back there anyhow and they only offer this a few times a year.
They require you to commit and invest yourself in it -b/c it's your life-- and that makes sense b/c it's about you taking charge of your life.
Spending four days on ridding yourself of baggage and fears and developing, then implementing - a new way of living and being. For me, it was about living a life of intention and clarity.
MAKING something happen, not hoping it might.
(Sorry Frank, I Don't mean to hassle you about this. But that statement is so...revealing. It sounds like haphazardly careening thru life. I think If you ever do manage to make it to EE, that comment of yours might make you laugh (or wince) b/c it might just be emblematic of...a lot.
I am trying to identify those negative behaviors and i appreciate you pointing it out. I've lived almost 40 years like this and it's a challenge to change in a few weeks but i'm trying.
Once again, thanks for the help you're awesome.
You're very welcome, and thanks.
Okay yes, getting new tools for living well,
does take work. It rarely (if ever) just "happens".
But please realize it's not exactly digging a ditch in a field of dung and hot tar. I mean, a lot of this "work" is about living well, living fully and being in the present. Learning from good times and learning from our mistakes.
But even then it is not all about pain. A lot of it is about feeling JOY as fully as we have felt anger or pain or grief or fear....without interference or pollutants.
((Ever notice that we can get REALLY angry about something -- and nothing else gets our attention for awhile? OTOH, we can feel happy about something, but allow other factors in that interfere or lessen our joy?))
THAT^^ has to be reversed, and there are ways to do that. For ME, Essential Experience (the 4 day workshop) was how I learned how to do that, and for ME, it was a lot faster than messing up and hoping to glean the lesson, and then figuring out a plan of attack,
but hey, whatever works is what we all need to determine.
Good luck Frank, I hope you have a great time with your family. And while you are there, I hope you will really BE there. .
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Frank, I'm really glad to hear the medicine's helping so much; not just in the interactions with your wife and your overall outlook but also helping you move forward and do other things in your life, like with flying. That's great! Hope you have a great time with your family.
And hope you get a chance to attend EE. From everything I've heard it's amazing, I read up on it and wish I could attend but right now the airfare is just too much (I'm in Europe) so I'm trying to find something similar locally but haven't. So take the opportunity if you get it!
Me 28 / H 28 M 1 / T 2.5 BOMB 12-3-14 "I don't feel like myself any more" Still living together, separate rooms.
