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#2528939 01/19/15 10:57 PM
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Hmmm...what palette to go on this blank canvas? Not sure that you completed the Lichtenstein, did you?


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Oh Pollocks! I forgot. I'll nip down the shop for a packet of Rothco and then make a start.


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My own expectation of daft lass's behaviour is causing resentment in me. I can see that clearly, but it still hard to combat.

I am trying to take a mindfull approach. These thoughts are only in my own head. Mindfullness teaches you to examine them and assess if what you are thinking is real, and if not you do not have to believe them.

Still struggling though.


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I've got a DB call with Chuck this evening. Got a lot to discuss, not least me considering moving out.


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Hi OD - good luck with your call tonight. Let us know how it goes won't you?

How does DB Coaching work if you're in the UK BTW??


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Oh, and another thing, someone said it really helped to record the call and play it back to themselves afterwards....


T 13 M 7
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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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I call via Skype. It costs less than a pound for 50 mins. I Skyped my 'Feel the fear' workshop leader on Tuesday and it kept cutting out. Fingers crossed it doesn't do that today.

I recorded my first conversation with Chuck and wrote out notes afterwards. I may do the same this evening. I use a program caled Callnote from Kanda Software. There's a free version and it's cross platform (Mac & PC).


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A few notes from my phone call with DB coach Chuck.

Thank her for letting me know that she was going to go on a date rather than find out.

Let her know I am planning on making a change. I need to examine our budget, tell her what I think depending on the result, get her input and then adjust it fairly.

Bring up my thought that I'm thinking of leavin as it will impact her and the kids. How do you feel about this?

Still act as though she is my sister.
Be calm and confident.
Have collaborative discussions out of mutual respect.
Let her see that this is not intended to punish her. Taking such action would backfire.
Let her see that I am leading, being pro active.

-----

I will take a look at our budget. She has been cake eating and it can't go on indefinately.

I'll hold the leaving thought for now. Too much at the same time I reckon.

After a few days away again and after speaking to Chuck, my Feel the fear coach and my knowledgable flatmates I feel I am able to handle things.


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Hey OD - sounds like good advice from Chuck - a good blend of 'reality check' but done in a very pleasant, non-punishing way.

Sounds like you are doing well my friend. Good that you can see you are feeling better after just a few days. I also find that I bounce back quicker than I did....progress...


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Good for you, Old Dog. Hope the weekend goes OK!


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Yes, it was helpful. Not enough time to discuss everything though and I'd much prefers face to face. I wish my IC would get sorted.

Not doing that well. Not to deny the great leaps and bounds I've already made but I feel as though I've taken a few steps back. Feeling a bit resentful towards daft lass about her date last week. I know I posted above that it's all in the mind, and I mentioned it to Chuck of course and also said "it's just a date, no biggie really" but ... it's still hard to accept your own wife would rather spend time with someone else.


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Thanks for the tips on the calls from the UK Old Dog. After 31 Jan was planning some DB calls myself.

Was interested in your feel the fear coaching too.

How are you finding these are helping you?

I get the fins (finance) thing, I really do. My is compulsive and I could never keep the coffers full enough to satisfy H. Cake eating, never thought of it that way.

Would your moving out assist in the Fins?

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 01/24/15 09:00 AM.

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Back at home again. I got the bus back last night so she didn't pick me up at the train station. I wasn't very talkative last night except one to one with the boys. She disappeared to the bedroom again and had been asleep for a while when I went to bed. And this morning I'm still brooding too much about her date last Sunday.

I decided I can't let my mood ruin the day and put Chuck's advice into action. Daft lass had taken her breakfast into another room to eat - she can't even stay in the same room for that! I went in and said "thank you for letting me know about your date last week rather than me just finding out. I think it was better that way". Then I left immediately without waiting for a response and went to a dentist appointment.

That was so hard. When I got outside, I roared. I don't know where that came from, it just came out. And then I cursed her - yeah, I know.

And back from the dentist: nothing to worry about there. But she says she's out again this evening. No further details though I still feel as though that's another stab through the heart. I just said "right" and left the room. Fighting back the tears now.


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Feeling at a really low ebb again now. My marriage is slipping away bit by bit and it seems nothing can stop it.

I am really angry that she is going out again tonight: I don't even know who with but of course my mind is sur its with the OM from last Sunday. Hiding away crying right now but I think I'll go for a walk.

I don't want this. My knee jerk reaction would be to up and leave. This is too hard. Mindfulness will only help so far.


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Hi. Old dog. I don't post on yours much but I really feel for you right now. I know you are up to date on my ditch and I am where you seem to be going. My W spends her time with OM It's really hard to take after years together and there is nothing I can say to make you feel better. Your W is on a journey and you need to let go You have no control and she will do what she wants. In their heads the am is over and you can change that. Hopefully with time your W will realise what she is losing but only time will tell. Please believe that you will be happy again. No one knows what that happiness will look like but it will be there. I can't give wise advice but from my experience try to keep busy , try to not brood about it ( easier said than done) and know that things happen for a reason. I have read on here about setting boundaries and would encourage you to look at these If your living together and she is going on dates then that seems like a deal breaker for me Anyway please know that posting often will help the wiser ones amongst us to post words that might help. Take care. RD

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Thanks RD.

I'll have to look at setting boundaries. I'm fed up with the cake eating especially if she now wants to start cheating.


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Hi, OD.

Correct my impression... I seem to recall early in your sitch that you and daft lass had agreed to an in house separation, and that there was a big production about explaining it all to the boys? There was some conversation about selling the house and something about a rental? Am I remembering incorrectly?

Either way, the way your W is acting, she has already left the marriage. It isn't slipping away. It's gone. Just in an incredibly slow and hurtful way.

There's a story around here about the Stockdale paradox and learning to accept that you're already dead. You haven't adopted that thinking yet, but for your own well-being, it may be time to.

You seem like a good guy, Old Dog. I'm glad you roared, sometimes that really helps. Im sorry for the torturous way this is unfolding and I hope you find a way to move forward and find your happy groove.


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Hi Maybell. It wasn't termed an in house separation but maybe that's what it is. We did explain to the boys that we weren't a couple but still living together. This is what she offered on bomb day - an unconventional arrangement.

We rent the house we live in. It's too small for our needs and costs too much for its size. We rent out the house own. We didn't want to live in there any longer. We lose financially on this arrangement so we want to sell it.

Yes, as far as she's concerned "it's over, it's run its course, it is what it is". It is very slow and incredibly painful. Every weekend a mini death.

I don't know about the Stockdale paradox, I'll have to look it up.

I am a good guy but also a nice guy, that also depresses me. Who would want to get back together with a nice guy? There so much work to do and I feel stuck and unsure. My wife would have help me but she has cutie adrift.

And so I find myself at this low ebb after 8 months of trying really hard to change. I don't want to be here right now. I don't want her or the boys to see me like this. I can't look in the mirror. It's all ****.

I want to scream at her "what the **** do you think you're doing? We should be working our hardest to see if we can save our relationship, not throwing in the towel and cheating".

I just went for a walk in the sunshine and listened to a funny podcast along the way to try and take my mind off things and I still feel like this.


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OD- I'm just going to throw something out there.

I think early in my situation, I thought it was really "bad" compared to others on this board. My STBX basically dropped the bomb, revealed OW and ran away on the same day. And he literally hid his whereabouts for a long time. I read other situations where people were more civilly separated, and envied that they were in a much better spot.

I don't think that anymore. I think I am actually one of the luckier ones. I basically went straight to the bottom and have had nowhere to go but up. Mentally, that makes it a lot easier for me to deal wth.

You, on the other hand, are dying by a thousand cuts every weekend. I know from experience reading your thread, that if you post during the week - it will be pretty upbeat. But when you post during the weekend its generally a lot more pained.

Old Dog- I don't think its considered very DB to initiate separation - but it sure seems like your situation is not working for you. And you need to find something that works better. You don't need to do anything hastily- but start exporing your options and putting a plan together to release yourself from this awful purgatory.

Just my .02.

Last edited by raliced; 01/24/15 03:33 PM.

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Thanks raliced. I have been thinking about moving out, and my flatmates whose opinion I value say maybe this would be a better option. They have done the 12 steps.

I think I can do this if I can detach, be like Vanilla or James Bond Stockdale.

I just looked up the Stokdale paradox. What a tough minded guy.

You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.

I don't know what's best for me. I've never had goals of a career or even known what I actually want from life. Those things would be best for me. And boundaries.


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Also... Being a "nice" guy in the sense that you mean it -- that's a matter of tiny decisions made in the moment as you go through your life. A woman who wants to be her best self in a relationship isn't going to accept "nice" behavior -- because your happiness will be a priority for her. So asking why your W would want to get back together with a nice guy isn't really a productive question. The Stockdale paradox and acknowledging that "I'm already dead" will make it easier for you to make the changes that make you stronger and reduce the fear that you can do anything to make things worse than they already are.

Whether those changes will win your W back is an open question, but she sure doesn't seem like someone who wants to be her best self.

Take your power back, Not So Old Dog. Be the man you want to be by taking the time you need to choose to in any given moment.

And FWiW I agree with Raliced.


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OD I have to side with raliced on this one. I lived in limbo seven months between BD and S. Nobody knew, not even the kids, and it was hard. But mostly it was tough on my self esteem. I thought, we have such a great life, a great family, what's wrong with ME that HE would want to walk away from all this? That was the wrong question. I should have been asking, what's wrong with HIM? I couldn't see that until he left.

Some people say that a S makes the WAS really see what they are missing. Maybe a S would be good for both of you.



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I need an IC I can talk this through with as I don't feel capable of deciding the right thing for me on my own. You make perfect sense both of you. I think today's spiral us slowing down now.

As I mentioned, I have been thinking seriously about leaving. I have also downloaded our joint account statements for 2014 and started examine them.

I have options there is no need for a hasty decision. Thank you for your support.


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Do what you need to do. It took me a long time to get my head around things too.


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Old Dog-

Daft Lass uses a "Life Coach". Have you thought about doing the same thing?


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She did, I don't think she still does, but yes I have.

She's just gone off, it's 4.40pm saying she'll be back late this evening. I shouted obscenities at her once she'd gone and now tears are now streaming down my face.

This started on June 1st, why am I still so flippin' devasted?

I've got to do something I feel so bad.


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Because six months isn't that long a time.

Go for a walk. Preferably a long one, uphill, in nature.

"She took a step and didn't want to take any more, but she did.”
― Markus Zusak, The Book Thief

“You must make a decision that you are going to move on. It wont happen automatically. You will have to rise up and say, ‘I don’t care how hard this is, I don’t care how disappointed I am, I’m not going to let this get the best of me. I’m moving on with my life.”
― Joel Osteen, Your Best Life Now: 7 Steps to Living at Your Full Potential

“Even though you may want to move forward in your life, you may have one foot on the brakes. In order to be free, we must learn how to let go. Release the hurt. Release the fear. Refuse to entertain your old pain. The energy it takes to hang onto the past is holding you back from a new life. What is it you would let go of today?”
― Mary Manin Morrissey


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8 months Maybell, 8 lousy months.

Been for a walk already. I'll have a soak instead, then I'm helping S15 revise as he won't do it on his own. Daft lass has been doing it all week and this morning.

Nice quotes. I think one footis superglued to the brake though.

PS to whoever posted those quotes originally, it should be — or —

Last edited by Old Dog; 01/24/15 05:19 PM.

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Quote:
. I think one footis superglued to the brake though.


So what are you going to do about it?


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Old Dog,

An I house s is so very difficult, especially if you are aware of nuance of the wayward or compulsive. My tactic is to observe without appearing to do so, this is Hertzberg philosophy. The observer changes the behaviour of the observed. Relax a little about W and toughen up on your own journey.

Old Dog, you need your GAL and lots of it, the fuller your own life the more attractive you become to yourself this is not for W but for you. Your plans, goals and activities are for you. Old Dog it sounds to me like you are laid back with your life and a good 180 may be to develop some strong goals that are appropriate drivers for you. You would know what they are, not work related perhaps but with an interest in people there are some GAL activities which will be very meaningful for Old Dog. A new outlook and interest will help you focus.

I detect in Old Dog a wonderful delicious sense of humour and a serious interest in the people around him, together with a willingness to experiment and explore his own nature. All of that makes Old Dog very attractive as a person. Expressive, caring and witty inimitable combination, devastating almost.

Stockdale Paradox, sadly not all situations are as clear cut as Stockdale. Accepting the reality of the position is excellent and I really do believe in it. But nothing is fixed in our world, the fire may or may not be at the door. The Indians may or may not be surrounding the wagons. Your W and my H will have their own reasons for staying S in the same location, in general that will relate to hygiene factors rather than motivation to R. If the hygiene factors are solid then more motivation to interaction is important to repair the R. all in good time.

Laughter, music, singing in the shower, cooking delicious meals, going GAL are all very attractive. RD creates a wonderful attractive family atmosphere that keeps W coming back for more. Financial stability, happiness and your own life are key for you. Jim adores his children, Edz cooks and has a BFT and has fun with his S. We all have each other here to guide us.

Old Dog, GAL for your life and set some new goals for you. If your old M is over then that is so, there is also the chance of a new R when Old Dog becomes a master of being the man only a fool would leave. For that you will need GAL, overdosed in spades.

You could try looking at a detatchment technique called reframing. It's based in psychological theory called NLP. But it means changing the way you look at things, including changing the modalities (sight, sound, touch......). Here is a link to a free resource I use for work issues. It may help.
http://reframe.thnk.org

Enjoy your relaxation and bath
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 01/24/15 06:34 PM.

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I just picked up DR again.

I will not what for an IC to be appointed to me, I will find one who does SBT or a life coach and go through DR with them.


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I discovered from S15 that daft lass has gone to watch her football team with her old boss. Apparently she has done this a few times every now and then. He doesn't think he was the date last Sunday.

We're on our own this evening as S12 is also out at frends so we're going to watch Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey. Not my kind of film but I'd like to spend a bit ore time with him doing something fun and it's about the only thing that will drag him away from his compter games.

I'm feeling a lot more myself now after a torrid time today. I am so grateful to all of you who help out.


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Excellent, Old Dog. As I was catching up on the posts the last couple of days I was going to write:

Step 1 - take charge of the IC situation.

But you beat me to the punch with that last post! Make this a priority and feel good about yourself when you make it happen. That's you overcoming inertia.


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(Or rather post before last)


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Oh, and shes blocked me on Facebook. Dunno when that was as I haven't looked at hers for ages. I unfollowed her maybe 2 months ago then blocked her last weekend.


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Well Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey is truly dreadful.


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Dear Lord, OD, you're bringing ME down. What do you need to do to perk up??


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Maybell, I love you.

OD, look alive, brother. Look alive!


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But it is dreadful. Even in my most perkiness of moods I would think the same. I thought the first one was dreadful too. It's just my kind of film.

S15 liked it though and that's why we watched it, so it served its purpose.

Hey Train. Maybell is the greatest :-) And I'm trying, I'm trying. Just opening DR and reading steps 1&2 again made me feel a whole lot better. Gave me back some inner strength.

I've been lying awake for a couple of hours and I just realised something. When I say daft lass holds me at arms length, I think she would say she is giving me space.

Last edited by Old Dog; 01/25/15 08:28 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Old Dog


I've been lying awake for a couple of hours and I just realised something. When I say daft lass holds me at arms length, I think she would say she is giving me space.


There, reframing in action!

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So watchyagonnado with that space, Old Dog?


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Maybe become 'young pup?'


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Originally Posted By: ganb8te
So watchyagonnado with that space, Old Dog?



Go GAL!

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OD has a history of needing to be pushed on the GAL efforts. Are you in a rut? What's on your playlist for this week?

Don't make me throw down another double dog dare. It might involve waxing. wink


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C'mon you guys. Give a dog a break. Last night I played some guitar with my flatmate and then removed the nail from my bike tyre and fixed that.

There ain't no way I'm doing any waxing ... unless it involves a surfboard: and i can't wait for June (ref: The Beach Boys).

I'm at work right now so I'll report back later OK?


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I haven't forgotten, I've just got a stinking cold and just relaxing until it gets a bit better.


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Hope you feel better soon, Old Dog. If not just so you can wow us all with your GAL plan. Can't wait!!!


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Still feeling rough as a ... well, rough as dog. Colds usually only last a couple of days for me but this one is a rotten one.

And now I have a further thing to contend with. I found out that daft lass is going to the theatre tomorrow evening. She hasn't told me anything about this. I don't know who with but of course my mind has suggestions. I also found a note on the iPad from last August that says "I have thought you beautiful from the first moment we met xxxx".

I know I should shrug and let it go but it's still real hard to contend with. Especially as I've taken a day off tomorrow to be here for the kids so she can go out today and tonight for a work awards ceremony.

And I haven't made my GAL list yet either.

On a more positive note, even though I wasn't feeling quite tip top last Tuesday, my dept had an away day. In the afternnon we had some bonding exercises which included giant Jenga. I amazed everyone by punching out a block on the very bottom with my fingers without making it topple. I felt quite pleased about that. The company providing the games said they'd never seen anyone do that before. And my team won all our games, so now I have a plastic gold medal which I wore to the office yesterday. -)


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As you may know, I blocked daft lass from facebook. She has now also blocked me. Well I think so, I can't can't see her page any more. On reflection, it wasn't such a good move. What do you guys think about reaching out an olive branch maybe saying.

"The other day, in a fit of self righteous indignation, I blocked you from facebook. On reflection, I realise this was a passive aggressive move, something I vow to overcome. So I would be happy to reconnect with you."


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Hi OD

mmm see now originally my fb was plain broken then when I started GALing I put a whole new pic etc up about a month in it all got too much and I put the account on temporary hold and left it a couple of weeks this was because I thought I'd do something or post something that would land me in trouble.

Really the question is do you want to know what your w is posting? My w and I are (at least today...who knows by tomorrow) friends on fb and Ive no intention of changing that but mostly she's posting stuff about her day with our s or plans with friends. Sometimes its useful sometimes its hurtful. Over christmas she posted tree pics with s which hurt but I realised I did exactly the same albeit not in our old place with the decorations we hung together for over a decade. She's posted how much she misses s when Ive had him for one night after he's been there a week and so on.

So really, do you want to know? I can tell you I know bits that I didnt ask to know and that w hasnt told me (I did not snoop) and its causing me a lot of trouble right now.

If you do (and I defer to vets if this is slipping into pursuing) then keep it simple and lose the 180 description "The other day I blocked you on Facebook, I'm sorry about that and would be very happy to reconnect with you".

I'm not the best at messaging and have felt the wrath of the 2x4 STFU plank so you may want to wait what others say.

Keep going mate.

Last edited by edz; 01/29/15 04:43 PM.

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Hi OD

I have a bit of a thing about the hurt and damage that seeing things on social media does in these sitches. I don't use FB or similar myself. IMO, it may be best just to leave it for now and focus on your GAL plan and moving forwards yourself.

T :-)


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Hi guys. Before I blocked her, I had unfollowed her which of course means that I her posts didn't show up on my timeline but mine did on hers. And she didn't know this.

She doesn't post much on facebook, all her skullduggery is via text, so I didn't see anythng of hers.

I do post on facebook, and most of my posts are upbeat, trying to sho myself in a good light and she can see these and has even commented on one or two (which do come through).

I'm thinking, the longer you leave something like this, the harder it is to get back.

I'm sure about mentioning passive aggression. It is something I suffer from and she is all too aware of it. I'd like to make it clear, maybe without mentioning it though, that I can see these sort of things happening now and taking steps to right them if not nip it in the bud straight away.


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Meant to say 'not' sure about mentioning passive aggression.


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Why do you think YOU get to offer HER an olive branch? She's the one rocking the boat!!

Leave the FB alone. It can only hurt you, trust me on this.

Don't make me throw down a waxing dare, OD. It can only get ugly from there. wink

The VERY NEXT THING YOU POST had better be a GAL plan. You don't want the ones I'd write for you.

Seriously, do they do open mikes in your part of the world? What if you took your guitar and performed at one?

How's the mustache?

PLEASE distract yourself from her. This is going to drag out forever if you can't find your own two feet.

Last edited by Maybell; 01/29/15 10:58 PM.

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OD

Let FB go. It is a good thing not to tumble your mind with W antics.

Remember the Hawthorne effect that which is watched is affected by the watcher. The observed change their behaviour when they are observed.

Detatch old dog, get peace, stay unfriended.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 01/29/15 11:56 PM.

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OK OK. Just to ward off a double dog dare waxing, here is a list of GAL activities.

Keep in touch with friends
Take guitar or piano lessons
Play music
Listen to music
Go to gigs
Go to the cinema / museum / art gallery / football
Find a martial arts or yoga class (my old yoga class finished)
Continue going to mindfullness class
Engage with others on Facebook, Twitter etc
Check out Landmark
Check out the Mankind Project
Read books that aren't to do with relationships etc
See if there's a cookery course I can go on

The moustache went on December 1st. I raised £122 and managed to not look like a perv: more like a stereotypical Mexican from a cowboy film. In fact some even liked it.

The open mic thing. Hmmm, yes. Too frightened to do it on my own if the truth be told. Maybe one day. I'd like to do it with others first. I can see myself singing and playing but I think it'll take a little while.

And one other thing. Sleep. It's 5am and I've been awake for 2 hours thinking about arranging a marriage counsellor session (solutions based of course) and saying I going, would you like to come too.

Last edited by Old Dog; 01/30/15 05:10 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Old Dog
OK OK. Just to ward off a double dog dare waxing, here is a list of GAL activities.

Keep in touch with friends go for coffee or a beer
Take guitar or piano lessons next Thursday
Play music in a band
Listen to music in a church or appreciation group
Go to gigs once a month on a Saturday starting this week
Go to the cinema / museum / art gallery / football every week with X and Y
Find a martial arts or yoga class (my old yoga class finished) starting next week
Continue going to mindfullness class
Engage with others on Facebook, Twitter etc only counts if activity booked
involvement next month with Landmark
involvement in the the Mankind Project
Read books in a book club that aren't to do with relationships etc
See if there's a cookery course I can go on book and attend

The open mic thing. Hmmm, yes. Too frightened to do it on my own if the truth be told. Old Dog sieze the day. A 180 on this, it is only fearful the first time. Something to discuss with your IC I feel

Maybe one day next week. I'd like to do it with others first. that is perfect GAL maximum GAL points if you do

I can see myself singing and playing but I think it'll take a little while. Go feel the fear and do it anyway


RD this is a good list and I would like specific GAL activities and dates and times.

GAL requires third party involvement so reading would count at a book club. Check out only counts if you go somewhere and participate.
You actually need to go on the cookery course for it to get GAL points
Contact with friends counts if you meet for coffee but sending an email, nah
GAL with your kids counts too, RD gets some GAL with his cinema evenings

RD you love music, live music is everywhere in the UK, there would be a good regular meet up with friends. V has a regular orange Wednesday at the cinema with a friend.

Old Dog keep the IC for you, MC with a wayward is ineffective. No doubt others will chip in on this.

Baby steps to giant leaps, you will be glad you did


Last edited by Vanilla; 01/30/15 08:40 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Old Dog
The open mic thing. Hmmm, yes. Too frightened to do it on my own if the truth be told.
...
It's 5am and I've been awake for 2 hours thinking about arranging a marriage counsellor session (solutions based of course) and saying I going, would you like to come too.


Two things:
1. Feel the fear and do it anyway
2. No to MC. Been there done that with a WAH (didn't realise he was a WAH at the time). Looking back I feel that she was the enabler who helped my confused H move out.


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Originally Posted By: Vanilla
GAL requires third party involvement...


Great suggestions V on how to make that GAL list more SMART.

I did want to challenge you on the above though. Surely if OD went bungy jumping or took up diving or developed a fondness for say macrame then those would count as GAL? Besides which, I think there needs to be some allowances for introverts*. Maybe even a weighted score? +1 for extroverts doing GAL with third party, +1.2 for introverts doing GAL with third party?

(Not saying you're an introvert OD, just coming to the defence of introverts everywhere)

* includes extroverts with social anxiety and extroverted introverts

Last edited by ganb8te; 01/30/15 09:18 AM.

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Already texted a friend about meeting upon Sunday.


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Oh dear. A bit of a backslide has occurred.

WAW returned from her awards night just now, for which I had taken a day off to be with the kids, and we had a discussion in which she became a little heated.

She said she was going out this evening to the theatre. I asked who with and she said her ex boss. I asked if this was the same person who she went out with the other week to which she said yes. I asked what's going on and she said they're dating.

I reminded her that she is married and she reminded me that 8 months ago she said it was over for her. It had run its course. I countered that our wedding vows include the phrase for better or worse and asked why she didn't think there was anything we could do she said she had tried and it had died before then which was why we hadn't had intimate relations for goodness knows how long.

She said again I should not hold out any hope, it over. There is no hope. I said I do have hope but it's the expectation that she gets me. I said I don't think you've treated me fairly, given me a chance. She reminded me that we went to MC a few years ago. I can't remember what I said but it was just talk not SBT.

She is frustrated and hates seeing me hurt but said I need to move on. We are just co-parenting now as far as she is concerned. I was fairly calm, didn't raise my voice at all even when she did although it didn't escalate to shouting.

Well at least it's become a bit clearer now. And I actually don't feel so low about it because it's what I expected. So what I need to do now is forget about her, GAL, look at our finances and sell the house.

Try not to be bitter in the face of such intransigence.

I've just lined up an interview for this afternoon as well if the fella gets back from a meeting in time. I don't know if I'd want it after this though. Perhaps I should just move down to where my job is and stay with my mum when I come back to see the boys.

Oh no, tears :-(

Last edited by Old Dog; 01/30/15 02:23 PM.

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Originally Posted By: ganb8te
Originally Posted By: Vanilla
GAL requires third party involvement...


Great suggestions V on how to make that GAL list more SMART.

I did want to challenge you on the above though. Surely if OD went bungy jumping or took up diving or developed a fondness for say macrame then those would count as GAL? Besides which, I think there needs to be some allowances for introverts*. Maybe even a weighted score? +1 for extroverts doing GAL with third party, +1.2 for introverts doing GAL with third party?

(Not saying you're an introvert OD, just coming to the defence of introverts everywhere)

* includes extroverts with social anxiety and extroverted introverts


Of course- those activities are solitary but not done at home in the bath! So do them in a gym with others there must be interactions etc. Maybe extroverts should have points deducted?

V


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So this is it then. She's just told me as the theatre is in ...... which is a little over an hour away, she won't be back tonight.

I didn't respond. But I'm absolutely livid inside. How dare she? Who is this callous ****. I'm afraid it's getting to me as I find I flick the Vs at her when she's gone and curse her.

What a crap day.

And I have a huge urge to tell the kids she's now cheating.

Last edited by Old Dog; 01/30/15 04:59 PM.

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OD, I'm sorry it has played out this way.

As far as the kids, don't you think they know already? They aren't babies. My kids figured it out pretty quickly.

Now you are in a spot to decide what to do next. You've been toying with the idea of moving out anyway, maybe this is the time. Something to think about.



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Thanks RP. No I don't think they do know.

Soemthing to think about indeed. At the moment, I feel like gathering up all my stuff right now so when she returns tomorrow, I'll have gone.

Crying swearing a lot at the minute. Good job the kids are upatairs.

Last edited by Old Dog; 01/30/15 05:48 PM.

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I don't understand your W. Why would she agree that you continue living together if she considers herself separated from you? Why does she think her behavior is OK?

I'm sorry this is happening, OD. I don't know what to tell you except keep on with the GAL and figure out how you want to live. But your current set-up is abusive in my mind.

BTW, I think it's worthwhile for you to follow through on the interview since it would give you the opportunity to enrich your relationship with your boys.

And don't think your boys can't tell what's going on. It's not like she's hiding things. Just because they haven't said anything specific to you... it may be that your relationship with them is not close enough for them to go there with you.

And that being said, I think you have a fair amount of room for improvement in your relationship with them and that's an excellent place to put your focus. (for example, not buying a gift of your own for your son's birthday) Hope that doesn't sound too harsh -- but I'll tell you, my kids saved my life. Yours should be a big part of your GAL.


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I don't know. I think she wanted to protect the kids as much as possible. We said to them last September that nothing would change for them and indeed it hasn't. The only difference is between us: She has given me more of this wonderful space to bounce around in.

She was the one who suggested an unconventional relationship where we stay under the same roof, but she mention it would involve cheating.


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OD, I wanted to protect my kids like crazy. I allowed H to have his freedom and pretend like everything was OK for 7 months before he insisted on telling the kids and moving out. BUT, the big difference was that H kept to a reasonable schedule, came home every night (with one glaring exception), stuck around on the weekends (mostly). We didn't have one single conversation about the duck, not one. He never indicated when he was going to be with her (I couldn't distinguish it from a business dinner), and I never once accused him of seeing her. I believe if he'd been throwing it in my face by talking about it and not coming home, that would have been a hard line for me. I know for sure that the second time he didn't come home his clothes would have been there to greet him on the sidewalk next morning. For sure.



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OD, I'm so sorry to hear about this development - that's horrible for you. Sounds like your W wants to maintain the family unit, but be free to 'date' (or have a PA) outside of that.

Funny you know, a few weeks before BD, my H told me about a colleague who cheated on his W more than once and they split a couple of times, before agreeing to have an open marriage. He says they are both happy with that now. He told the story as though it was a happy ending, but I thought that was a lot of pain to go through to get to that point. In hindsight, I know where his mind was going at the time! Another sign that he was having an A that I missed.

It sounds as though you need to be at home tonight for your boys - but after that, you may want to have a think about what your plans are. Do you need to distance yourself before you can have another conversation about this with her?

I suppose on the plus side (and this may feel like a small plus now, but you'll be glad in time) she is telling you this. Of course, she may not be telling you everything. From the ipad note you found, she may have been in an EA/PA for some time. Do you know anything about his circumstances? Is he M too?

For you presumably, it is time to think about boundaries and what you are/are not prepared to live with. Your W will do what she will do - and possibly for a while. But you also have some control here, and can decide what you want to do too. Starsky's sitch may be a helpful one to have a look at if you want to consider a strong stance from the outset.

Keep posting DB - your DB buddies are all here for you, and we'll help as best we can.

I'm sending you a little kiss and a hug (((((x(((OD)))))x)))


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RP. Do you think that was a good thing to do in the end. To be fair, she hasn't thrown anthing in my face untilnow and even than it was me that asked so what's going on? Its just a matter of her thinking she's being courteous by letting me know she'll be out.

I've just ben going through the family iPad deleting all my passwords, logins etc and found her new one ha ha :-)


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THIS WILL NOT DEFINE ME


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Originally Posted By: Old Dog
RP. Do you think that was a good thing to do in the end. To be fair, she hasn't thrown anthing in my face untilnow and even than it was me that asked so what's going on? Its just a matter of her thinking she's being courteous by letting me know she'll be out.


OD, I don't know if the way I handled it was good for anyone else, but it saved my sanity. Very early on I realized that if I were to have any hope of forgiving my H for what he was doing, I could not allow certain things in my brain. The more I know, the more I have to forgive. I wasn't trying to pretend it didn't exist, and I know that if we ever do R we'll have to deal with it, but until then I'm trying not to destroy the feelings I have remaining for him.

The other part is that I truly, with all my heart, down to the bottom of my soul, wanted to protect my kids. I would have cut off my right arm to not have them know. And so I did certain things to make it all seem normal, trying to wait it out until H came to his senses. Didn't work, but I tried.

You'll have to decide what's best for you. If you both see it as her being courteous and letting you know her plans, even if those plans are with OM, then that's what you should do. I wouldn't have viewed that as courtesy, myself. For me, that would have been a deal-breaker.



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Just for balance, although I don't want my kids to know either... I've spoken to a lot of adult friends whose parents went through this. They agree that the worst was not knowing what was going on. They attached to the more attentive parent, regardless of who was "wrong". They wanted the opportunity to discuss with a parent rather than a therapist (though sometimes therapists were helpful with dealing with known information).

My D11 is not a straightforward person. I think she suspects what her dad has been up to. She mentions things from time to time -- like how much he texts when the kids are with him. Given that he has always been a pretty heavy phone guy, it must be a lot for her to bring it up specifically. But she's not asking me a question (which I couldn't answer even if she were) so there's no way for us to discuss.

Food for thought.

I stand by my opinion that the "unconventional" living arrangement is abusive, and that there is a reason it's unconventional.

My two cents.

Last edited by Maybell; 01/30/15 06:56 PM.

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Up to now I've also been hoping against hope she would come to her senses and have treid my very best to always stay postive and upbeat after the initial shock.

I think we have protected the kids pretty well as I think they are blissfully unaware of the severity of the situation. they both seem pretty happy and have never broached the subject once, with me anyway.

When she went on her first date two weeks ago, DB coach Chuck said that was an opportunity missed to thank her for letting me know so I didn't just 'find out'. I made a point of thanking her the net weekend instead. I guess this is just a continuation no matter how hard it sticks in my craw. She may not do it again though as I didn't exactly react to well ... again. Sigh.

I'm really stuck with wanting to get out and save myself from this torture and doing the best thing for my kids and maybe even my marriage who knows: although then again, the best thing for my marriage may be to leave. Aaaaaaargh!

We also have the added complication in that S15 is going to need a lot of support this year as he has to undergo severe surgery. He's going in for final tests on Monday. We need to be there for him.


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Originally Posted By: Maybell
Just for balance, although I don't want my kids to know either... I've spoken to a lot of adult friends whose parents went through this. They agree that the worst was not knowing what was going on. They attached to the more attentive parent, regardless of who was "wrong". They wanted the opportunity to discuss with a parent rather than a therapist (though sometimes therapists were helpful with dealing with known information).


Let me clarify. I didn't want my kids to know that anything was wrong as long as H stayed in the house and acted like a semi-attentive H. After we told them, we have been very honest with them. D16 was the one who asked H straight out if he was seeing someone, and to his credit he admitted it. And that was said in front of all the kids, so they have all known that from the beginning. They know they can ask me things and I'll tell them real answers. There are some things I feel aren't appropriate to talk about, and I won't bad-mouth their dad, but I'm not hiding anything these days.

Edited to say: sorry about your son, OD.

Last edited by rppfl; 01/30/15 07:16 PM.


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We've always answered thm straight as well, but as for volunteering information? 'Oh by the way, your mother is going out with another man'. I really don't know. They have a right to know this sort of thing but I have to protect them from it too. S12 is only er ... 12.

Re S15: thanks RP. He's got curvature of the spine but he's going to the best hospital in the country for it.


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Old Dog-

I would just repeat that I think you need to find something that works better for you except that I recognize you have a serious complication in your situation due to your son's health and imminent surgery.

I should point out that I doubt your wife is a stupid woman - and she must have known this would have upset you. Doing this right now, with everything going on with your son is just selfish.

You do need to figure out how to really detach emotionally Old Dog - for the sake of your own health.


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Hi OD, I'm sorry to hear that your S will need to have an op - but good that he'll be going to the very best place for it. Do you have an idea of how soon it will happen? I agree that you'll need to be a united front for him - but how that united front happens is up to you.

There's a lot for you to think about, and you'll decide on the best way forward for you when you're ready. Just on this whole 'courteous' debate. I can see the case for thanking your S for their honesty about something. I did that with my H when he answered my questions about his A (pre-DB.)

However, alongside that is boundaries. We shouldn't confuse thanking someone for their courtesy in being honest to us and tolerating a marital situation where your W sets off for a date with OP leaving you to look after the household..

Last edited by Toots; 01/30/15 09:18 PM.

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And just in time for her birthday ... on Valentine's Day too. Saturday, let's see how that pan out. Happy birthday's all round until the evening when ****s off to her new man. And she dresses it up saying we're in transition. Yeah that's right you cheating ****, transition. It makes me mad.

Just took the kids to a local bar to have some food and it was all I could do to stem the flow. I had to dab my eyes a couple of times but to show you have far removed the boys are, S15 asked if my cold was still affecting me. They didn't ask where their mum was or why she wasn't with us. Maybe they've just accepted that this is the way it is and if I'm OK with it, then they are. The tears wouldn't stop when I got home,but the boys have goe up to play computer games now.

And yes, I do think she is utterly selfish, and it one of the things I keep muttering.

I've been thinking recently that I will have to go, for my own sanity and the feeling is getting stronger daily. What do I come back here for? I did come back for two reasons, one, for the boys and two to show WAW how I'm coping with this and working on myself.

Obviously she doesn't give a flying one, as she says there is nothing we can do to save our marriage. So I might as well go and arrange to see the boys at agreed times during weekends.

Last edited by Old Dog; 01/30/15 09:31 PM.

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I keep going on and on don't I.


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You've got to take your eye off her. You are hurting yourself.


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I've just been talking to a friend on the phone about moving out.

I can take all my clothes and a few other things round to my mum's tomorrow and stay there tomorrow night.

I've got a spreadsheet open right now with all the joint account transactions in. It's not about the money at all because I was happy providing for my family, but I'm looking forward to cutting that down.

I hope this bitterness wears off soon, I don't like it. It's not me.


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OD, detach buddy!!.. You NEED to do this now.. Honestly, you need to not care that she is dating.. That is HER choice, and there is nothing YOU can do about it..

My only bit of advice is to not even acknowledge the existence of OM.. Draw boundaries about OM being spoken about around/to you.. Don't bad mouth him to your W or kids as much as you may want to..

You have to let HER make the mistakes and see the errors.. Now is the time more than ever to make yourself the man she would be a fool to leave..

Also, leave your bitterness at the door.. It does nothing but eat YOU up..


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I really am much better at detaching than I was before now I've learnt some new tools to help, and I think I could stick it out. But something has to change because I have been doing this now for months and it is not working. In fact it has become worse with OM turning up.

If it's not moving out, then what else can I change. We hardly ever talk about the relationship. WAW is quite happy with me working away during the week and the money I earn, she likes her job 2 mins down the road, she likes the attention OM is now giving her. She's got the kids here.

What is in any of ths for me?


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Originally Posted By: Old Dog
I really am much better at detaching than I was before now I've learnt some new tools to help, and I think I could stick it out. But something has to change because I have been doing this now for months and it is not working. In fact it has become worse with OM turning up.

If it's not moving out, then what else can I change. We hardly ever talk about the relationship. WAW is quite happy with me working away during the week and the money I earn, she likes her job 2 mins down the road, she likes the attention OM is now giving her. She's got the kids here.

What is in any of ths for me?


Agreed that you are more detached now, but it needs to be further..

As they say "do what works".. If you have not found anything that is working, then change until you find something that does.. I spent months myself with no change in my sitch, yet once I got on to LC/NC I noticed changes happening.. My W is starting to spew a bit now and is starting to become slightly wishy washy.. As pointed out to me, and in my own thoughts, her emotions are now starting to play on her mind..

Not saying this is what you have to do, but you have to plant the seed..

How do you know that she is HONESTLY happy with everything that is going on??.. My W always said she was happy with her life when I was in the begging/pleading stage, but I could/can tell it is only superficial.. I look in to her eyes and see that it is a front, much like we all put up to feel happy.. OM is doing nothing but filling a void.. This isn't sustainable just as us LBS acting happy isn't sustainable.. We need to GAL etc to make it true..

What is in this for you??.. Learning and becoming a better man/father.. I was never a bad dad, but now I'm better than I ever was.. Make every moment count..

Last edited by LoveMyW; 01/31/15 12:28 AM.

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Old Dog - just catching up on the events of the last day or so. Sorry this has put you back in a bit of a spin.

From an outsiders perspective looking in:
- nothing has really changed (W is dating - but you knew that before)
- you are still in the same place trying to figure out your next move
- the options are:
1. Do nothing
2. Stay in the house + GAL big time
3. Move out + GAL
(4. Request W to move out - but that doesn't seem to be on the table)

It's time for you to stop saying oh well and commit to moving yourself from 1 to option 2 or 3. More than any other sitch on here I think you are stuck in 1. I know you are doing a bit of GAL but it's not enough - clearly - as you are still so focussed on W. We joke about you GAL but it's actually very serious. It's the only way you are going to feel like you have any control over your life. And a man who is in control of his life = attractive. A man who is being walked all over? Not so much. There is no way W is going to turn around and think twice based on the current circumstances.

Sometimes I want to reach through the screen and give you big hug...followed by a slap in the face to get you moving!


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Hey LMW, thanks for chipping in. I do know what you're saying, and when I said what's in it for me, I meant coming back 'home' every weekend not becoming a better man.

I'll sleep on it. Putting the boys to bed already makes me doubt it's the best thing. They really don't know what a crap situation this is.


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And on that note ganb8te I'm sure I'll sleep easy tonight.

I could do with a big hug though.


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((((Old Dog))))

It's with love that I say those things, OD. I truly want better for you. It's a crummy situation that your in, no doubt about that. I hope you can find a way forward that works better for you.


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Can't sleep. My mind is full of retribution and the pillow is too soggy. The other side of the bed is empty and I don't know where she is or if she's with OM.

And then I get to thinking. What would Chuck say?

He would say 'how would she expect you to behave'?

Well based on today's performance she would expect me to be angry, glowering, simmering, silent, resentful. You get the picture.

So how about I don't do that? Oh actually I've not done that for months and she's fine with me being happy, having a PMA etc so that doesn't really work either.

OK. I don't think she'd expect it if I wasn't here and didn't come back. And then said I'm reducing my financial input. But what's the motivation for that? Will it backfire? Do I care?

Am I actually able to make a decision about anything anymore? I'm so tired, maybe I can't. What am I wibbling about? Ha, that came out as wobbling snout before I changed it.


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OD

DB is for you my friend. We DB for the changes for ourselves any effect on our M is an additional side effect.

We take an action because it works for us not to attract an errant spouse, you know this. Being alone when W is away being wayward is very hard and painful until you detatch. In order to do this you have to live a life of your own, and V believes that is the only way to manage an in house separation. That does not mean being uncaring, it means letting go of the outcome.

I am voting for letting waywards take the full force of their actions. Some how it is best to move out and other times best to stay put. Only OD can decide what is best for OD and his family unit. Please make your decision with a cool head and in a peaceful heart. My great concern for OD is that he moves on without having built his life and that would just take OD from one place to another without changing any core behaviour. OD just takes his sitch and baggage with him, the same pain but in a different location. It leaves OD in a vacuum and reduces the time OD has living with his children.

If OD examines HPs thread then he will see a young man with a new life and struggles but one who embraced the change. It was a positive decision to move forward. OD that is different to moving out to expose W to the results of her decisions. W is cake eating, yes of course, and it horrible but not unexpected.

OD make a move for your own sake, to become unstuck and to cease being in a situation which is undermining you. Do so because it is best for OD and not as a reaction to W having an A. Have this as a positive step. Move to embrace the new and not to avoid the old.

If V were there, you would get a cup of tea and a kindly hug.

(((((OD))))))

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 01/31/15 02:51 AM.

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Hi Old Dog, I'm happy to see that Vanilla has posted a lovely message to you. V used much kinder words than I, but I think they were coming from the same caring place. We all want to see you break through to the other side of this difficult situation.

I continued to think about your situation at my yoga workshop just now. It occurs to me that there is a bit of a cycle (I'm sure you recognise this). You head to the apt on Sunday, chat with your roommates there, gather stength during the week. By the end of the week you are reasonably upbeat, feel like you can continue to muddle through, keen to GAL. You return home, barely interact with W, get depressed and angry over the weekend, think about moving out, then head to the apt on Sunday...

It's kind of like you are living with both an in-house separation and a full physical separation and I wonder if it is messing with you. There's not enough time for you to get your groove on with either situation and so you bounce between. And I think the strategies are quite different.

Is there some way you can break this cycle - even just temporarily - to give yourself a bit of a break and have some sustained PMA?


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Bless you for thinking of me. I am so grateful to all of you. I know have my best interests at heart.

I am trying to decide what's best for me and especially for the boys. I think I've got to the point where I don't care what WAW does. She's so blinkered and focused on one thing that she won't consider any alternative. For one one who studied to be a counsellor herself for a year back in the day, it is is incredulous that she should not be more open to alternatives. Hey ho.

ganb8te, I think you're right about yoyoing between two places. I was just going to say perhaps I should try a trial separation but then is that just half measures again? Putting off the big decision.

I feel as though I have no power and complete inability to analyse the situation properly and make a decision. I want someone to do it for me, but not her. I know no one will and she may even do so. I have to somehow summon the strength myself.

I would like to stay for the boys sake and also to prove I can GAL and be the best I can be. When I eventually get a job near here, I will be able spend more time on developing local GAL activities and cut out the your behaviour. Self doubt though rears its ugly head at regular intervals.

It's been another night of bad sleep which doesn't help either.


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Hi OD, I'm sorry you didn't have a good night. Sounds like everything is going around in your head, and you feel you need to make a decision - but then you feel so indecisive and upset.....and then it's all going around in your head again.

Well, the important thing to remember is there's no ticking clock here. There is only the need to find a way forward that is going to best support your aims going forwards - which (suggestions only) might be:

Be a great dad to my boys
Look after myself as best I can during a difficult time
Save my marriage if I can....etc.

You don't need to decide this today or tomorrow or even this week. There is no deadline. There is only processing what has happened and knowing what you want to do next - and deciding this not from a place of fear, but from love and confidence. All you have to do for now is decide where you are going to stay tonight etc..

Hang on in there OD. You're at the part where it just got worse before it gets better. But get better it will my friend. ((((OD))))


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Thanks Toots. I just went over to HP's thread around the time he moved out. Now I'm back thinking I should do that. Argh I'm so confused. Everything is really spinning around my head. One minute this, the next minute that. Oh for some clarity.

Last edited by Old Dog; 01/31/15 09:11 AM.

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Perhaps I shouldn't try to decide this when I'm in this state.


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Old Dog, before I joined DB, I spent a LOT of time where you are. Spinning, trying to make him see how great I am, running to people for advice and comfort.

Finally in October 2013, a very good friend said to me, "You need to find your value."

I had no idea what that meant. I spent months searching for just what that meant, asking people, looking it up, everything.

Meanwhile, STBX was treating me with less and less respect every day. He stopped pretending he was done with OW. He did less and less around the house. He pitched fits about how he "ruins everything" and never cleaned up behind himself. He was consumed with self-pity. He played a LOT of video games. He treated me worse and worse every day.

In January 2014 he threatened to move out and then he left for a business trip. He was gone for three days and never called, and I think he took some glee in hurting me that way.

For months he waffled back and forth about leaving. It was not really spoken out loud again, but it was a threat that hung over me like smoke. I worked really hard not to rock the boat because I didn't want him to make good on that threat.

I slept less and less. I was short with the kids. I cried ALL THE TIME. I was barely functioning.

In April 2014 I felt like things had to change. I couldn't live like that any more. He started threatening more overtly and he moved into the guest room. I couldn't see the reason for ANY of this, but the reason was, he had never stopped talking to OW and I can't compare to a 26 yo sexting partner who lives three thousand miles away.

I told him, move out or commit to the marriage. I can't take this any more.

I gave him a week to think it over while I took the kids' to my parents' house. He chose to move out.

And you know what, the night he left, I slept ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE NIGHT like a dead person for the first time in probably ten months.

I have found my value. I know now who I am. And I know that I am enough.

I've asked you a bunch of times who you want to be, what kind of man you want to be, and I've told you, start acting like that man.

Go Find Your Value, Old Dog.

She doesn't get to tell you what that is. Figure out who you are and who you want to be and OWN IT. It only looks hard. How you're living right now is way harder.


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Ah Maybell you are so strong and such a valuable friend.

Can you tell I'm at a low ebb? I'll be back, but it may take a little while.

I really need to change my whole life around but that is so daunting. I need help to chunk it down I reckon as I'm such a lazy sod preferring to just drift along. But look where that has got me.

Life coach ahoy (not our ahoy, just a shout out) book me in for some kick up the arse sessions.

I'm at my mums now having tea and sympathy. WAW still hasn't returned home - I just Skyped S15 to see. Thank goodness for Skype as they've both got their phones switched off. What use are they if they're switched off.

Gonna post a joke next to cheer everyone up who gets depressed looking at my morose thread. Stand by.


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I walked into a drug store in town and asked to talk to a male pharmacist. The woman I was talking to said that she was the only pharmacist and as she and her sister owned the pharmacy, there were no male employees. She then asked if she could help me. I said that it was something that I would be much more comfortable discussing with a male pharmacist.

The lady pharmacist assured me that she was completely professional and whatever it was that I needed to discuss, I could be confident that she would treat me with a high level of professionalism.

I reluctantly agreed and began by saying, This is tough for me to discuss, but I get erections every day that last more than four hours. It causes me a lot of problems and severe embarrassment, and I was wondering what you could give me for it.' The pharmacist said, 'Just a minute, I'll talk to my sister.

When she returned, she said, "We discussed it at length and this is the absolute best we can do. 1/3 ownership in the store, a company pickup truck, a king size bed and £3,000 a month in living expenses"

Last edited by Old Dog; 01/31/15 04:17 PM.

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Hey OD. very hard time for you. Take your time , you can't carry on as you are because it's too painful but at the same time don't rush into anything you might regret. Take each day as in comes an please know that you will be happy again

Take care. Rd

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Pick one thing you can change TODAY, OD, and commit to changing it. You deserve that. It gets easier as you get further along.

REMINDER:

"She took a step and didn't want to take any more, but she did.”
-- Markus Zusak, The Book Thief

^^^^^ Should be YOU.


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If there was a list of things, I could pick one out but there doesn't seem to be.

Rather than maintain complete radio silence, I decided to do the decent thing and text WAW to say I've had a couple of drinks so I won't be back until tomorrow. That'll cheer her up not having to avoid me.

That probably doesn't really count though. Why can I change today?


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You mean WHAT can you change today?

What have you done today that's made you feel worst about yourself?


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Old Dog, glad to see others chiming in. Another suggestion - the change you decide to make today doesn't need to be huge and it doesn't need to be forever. My mum always says (and I see Maybell says it too) you don't need to eat the whole elephant in one go. Break it into smaller pieces.

What is something small you can commit to for say 2 weeks? I'm suggesting 2 weeks to help try to break through your yoyo cycle.


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Oh yes, I do mean what can I change today. Didn't notice the typo.

Maybell the reframing queen. I like it. It would useful to learn how to do that.

What did I do today that I can stop? You know what I'd like to stop? Waiting. That's what. Waiting for someone else.

The elephant thing. I don't really want to eat an elephant. I'm vegetarian.

Can I just use the example in Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance instead?

Hey look everybody, I'm getting a sliver of my mojo back. So tired now though. Go to sleep.

Last edited by Old Dog; 01/31/15 11:57 PM.

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Ok, then the first thing you concentrate on is moving. You do that by practicing reframing. Every time you notice yourself in that pattern, ask yourself what you can do in the moment to change it. Even if it's nothing more noticeable than a bit of your attitude, change it.

I like your mojo. Fake it till you become it, Not So Old Dog.


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Moving? You mean me physically moving about? Walking, running, dancing* etc?

I already try to walk tall. I have been doing that since June. Every time I walk somewhere, it's head up, shoulders back, brisk pace and I also put a little smile on my face. I enjoy doing it.

Years ago, I once saw a friend of mine at a house party dancing in the middle of the throng totally engrossed in the music with a huge smile on. I was so impressed by how much fun he was having that I decided to do that too. So when I used to go out where dancing was involved, I'd try the same. And now, when I remember to practice faking it, that's also what I do.

* I have a mind to perhaps learn to dance as a GAL activity.


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My mild, I think, OCD tendencies won't let me start another thread until I've wrung the maximum out of this one :-)


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Dancing it is! Pick a style and look up classes. Report back when you've made a booking wink


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Why did I open my big mouth? :-)

Last edited by Old Dog; 02/01/15 08:31 AM.

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...because you wanted some encouragement?


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OD - a fellow vegetarian! I love to think of you striding along, with your head held high and smiling....very attractive - and tons better than 'hang dog' or 'wounded dog' - good for you!

I live next to a park and often see the dogs arriving and being let off the lead. Wow - they are just so pleased in that moment, and I think we have lots to learn from them about enjoying life.

The idea of dance GAL sounds like a good one....a great mood lifter, fun and exercise - plus it widens the comfort zone. My H learned to ballroom dance in his teens at school. They did a lot of 'escort & chivalry' stuff ahead of the prom I think. I always wanted us to go dancing together, but he never would, and he would never dance at anything either - Hmm..

So, I am also thinking of dance GAL.....I will if you will OD!


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Oop! Just sent an email about a salsa class....


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...because you wanted some encouragement?

Yes, you're right, I'm such a ... well I don't know, but I am one.

I will get on it.

Dogs. Yes. My flatmates have one. A funny little thing. It idolises my male flatmate even though he belongs to my female flatmate.

I think they are too subservient to be my favourite though. I love dogs, but they're too needy. Co-dependence anyone :-)

I prefer cats. They are a model of independence. Mind you I won't modelling myself on our cat as she's frightened of her own shadow, all men bar me (and even then she forgets at times), vomits her biscuits up at regular intervals and many more peculiarities. I've owned far 'better' cats. She is very beautiful though: black all over, whiskers and all. Silky and sleek with a very long 33cm tail.

Why did I call myself Old Dog again?

Oh yes, I want to learn new tricks don't I. I think I can. I think I can. I know I can. I know I can.


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Originally Posted By: Toots
Oop! Just sent an email about a salsa class....


Now you're talking Toots me girl ;-)

I'll see you on the dance floor.


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I'll have to go home soon. Feeling apprehensive. Dread.

I'll handle it. I haven't said that for a while.


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I can't let this thread whither and die without a proper lock on it so this is just a filler post.

***** siren wail *****
OCD in action, stand clear
***** siren wail *****


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Oh man there's another one


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OD, you need to detach from this thread. Go out there and GAL on your new one.



"Don't look back, you aren't going that way"
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