Whelp.... I'm an idiot. Started a new thread and posted on the old. I will copy and paste it below:
Hey Gwen & g! Thanks for poppin in!
Bea, thanks for that. Very interesting! You are certainly right- he isn't cooked yet. I don't know exactly what I'm supposed to do, other than focus on myself.
It's also interesting that your x still brings that up- let alone serves out slices of responsibility to others. Ick! I don't want a lifetime of that, and after the emotional, heartfelt apologies, I am now sensing blame from him.
He's in a whirlwind. I have to keep that in mind. I need to be calm and steady.
I should use the strength from my mom... The lady who just finished fighting breast cancer, broke her arm while ice skating with her granddaughters (after they knocked her legs out from under her), finds out Monday if she has to have surgery- and is on her way to Zumba class right now! I'm like, seriously, mom??!!
I just did the same thing! Here is my replyon your old thread
We can only focus on ourselves. But if we can find it in us to be kind, I think it helps.
At least it doesn't fuel the flames more!!
I never defend myself - I did for a long time but found that going on the defensive (or the offensive) doesn't work.
I think they can't live with the guilt until they deal with it. If your xh is prepared to engage, therapy would be good - someone to talk it out with, and face up to some issues. But mostly the avoidant behaviours that brought them to this place persist.
They have these moments of clarity when we think 'ah finally they have got it' but until they own it, they aren't there.
Mighty, you HAVE that strength of your mom....everyone here sees it. You just need to BELIEVE it.
bea, I think you're spot-on. They will avoid that guilt at all costs in many ways, including mood swings and irrational comments. Until and unless they truly face it? They're goners.
Mighty, I may be quiet, but I'm still here, cheering in sign language . Sending hugs and prayers, and positive everything your way, my dear friend.
Keep going. Remember who you truly are. And remember how unbelievably worthy you are of a peaceful life, and being treated with love and respect. No one can take that from you. Whatever they do.... They just can't. Unless you forget that. So don't. K? K.
I almost laughed when I read about your mom. I was thinking, "and she probably answered the phone with a gin and tonic in her good hand"
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But, yes, it still succks when--at least on the surface--you feel as if someone was chosen as the winner and you were the loser. Maybe that is the time to remove yourself from the contest.
That's always an option, amiga. Always.
One of the hardest things to do is to be rejected, especially by somebody you trusted. For whatever reason. It's fairly natural for a scorned person to look back and re-frame things. Heck, you're not the same person any longer, a fresh look is always warranted. And you can almost assuredly find a way to make the list balance in favor of "dirt bag" and "what was I thinking??" if you try. You could have years ago if you're honest with yourself.
So what really changed? Everything really. You are taking a fresh look at the person and YOURSELF and taking a look.
Kind of like the six blind men (not PC? - tough) describing an elephant. They each "saw" something different based on their current perspective.
Your perspective changed, so looking again, you might see things differently. YOU might need something different in your life that prior to the BD you didn't really put much thought into. At least not consciously.
You really did have a loving, mutually beneficial relationship for a lot of years. So did heather (at least the mutually beneficial part, right?) as did most of us. You didn't dream that. You didn't know what it was like to be hurt and rejected like this by your (ex-)husband. Once you did, you had to have a different perspective on things. So you see things differently and you see different things.
Or put another way, your priorities are different. Hence you filter out the unimportant things (in relation to your priorities) so you don't go mad
Bea's ex (and Job's and a few others) are in an elite class that few get to. I'm hoping mine doesn't get there but it looks like I won't get that for Christmas either. In fact I think she'll bring along a friend by the looks of it.
Which brings me to the other item - the hww. I know exactly what you're saying when you feel like it would be easier if he was with somebody other than hww. Anyone else would do, even if not you. I have had that same feeling in the past with my ex. It was the insult of insults to do what he/she did.
At the time, I suspect it was intended to be just that. An insult. In your case, I don't think ex intends that any longer and likely regrets it at some level and can't cope; he may never or you may not be around to see it. Bea speaks a ton of wisdom when she illustrates the dynamics of the conversation you might have with ex.
The ball is in your court. I don't advise throwing away your past to make yourself feel better. I do, as Heather suggested, think you should be honest about what you had, what you experienced, and keep in mind that you have a different perspective NOW than you did THEN.
And keep doing what works for you to keep your sanity. You don't owe anyone anything, Mighty. Except you.
Later Gator!
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
bea- thank you. You are right. I did pretty well this week staying out of things. I didn't ask any questions or inquire at all about the sitch. Until last night, I asked about the test.
I have a tendency to wear my heart on my sleeve. So, they way he has taken the convo parts for what he wanted and never completed it, it really bothers me. I have stepped back, but I am trying not to let that part interfere with my attitude. Now, he is taking a step back too. I don't know what that means.
He texted me this morning about p/u d13 from practice. I responded. Then I thought about the (unfinished) convo. I had some things I wanted to say, I could have been smart, snotty, pleading, whatever.. all the things I didn't want to be. I considered not saying anything. Then I thought about it, and I just asked, why haven't you finished the conversation?
He didn't respond. A little while later, I saw I missed his call while I was in the shower, but he was picking up d13 at the time. So I figured if he was calling about the convo, he had about 2 minutes before she'd be in the car. So I didn't call back. He dropped d13 off, and was off on a 1.5 hr car ride to see his dad. I thought he'd call then, but he didn't. In fact, I haven't heard from him at all.
Again, just stepping away. I am without a car today, as s17 is off helping my mom today, and d13 is out of town watching college basketball. I'm staying busy, but honestly, it's not enough. I just can't seem to find what it is that I want to do with myself. Outside of home, that is. I have plenty to do here, but I don't want to be around anyone, really (outside of work). There isn't anything I want to do. And it is so cold out!
Honestly, I don't even want to finish the conversation anymore (just disappointed about how it went down). I am just tired of it. Xh probably feels the same way. That could be why he is not only avoiding it, but avoiding me now. And that's OK (not the avoiding conversation- something that needs to stop), but for him to take care of stuff. He has so many conversations to have, that he is probably sick of it, too.
AJ- It's interesting that you see the ball in my court. I feel that halfway. I think I want to feel that he wants this and would really put effort into this- then I would make a decision. I feel like I want to be the one to decide. I think I fear another rejection. When I really think about it, I guess that if weren't to work out, I would want it to be my call. Isn't that terrible? It's not that I think I don't want it to work out.... but I just don't know what I want- but I do know I don't want to be rejected like that again.
Oh, something else...
The other day, xh and I were talking, and I mentioned that it never would go back to the way it was. He seemed taken aback by this and asked why. I said bc he is not the same, I am not the same, the kids aren't the same, and things have changed. He seemed really down and disappointed to hear this. It's kind of sad. I have seen him try to make everything around here like it was before he left (remember- even paint color!), and talks about how good it was before he left (but he didn't realize it until after he left), and how we had such a good life, a happy life, and we didn't have any real problems in our family (That's an understatement compared to now!). But I don't think it ever crossed his mind that it won't be the same.
You are right, AJ, I can now look back with a different perspective. Some things may and could be the same. Other things can't. And some... need to change.
It's hard finding the balance between being kind and supportive (gently helping him out of the tunnel???), being sure to keep a healthy dynamic (not falling back into old habits which didn't work), boundary setting, and keeping my own emotions in check while dealing with the past, the present, and trying to find my way into the future.
(XH just called and apparently spent the day with his mom and is on his way home- she lives 1.5 hours away near the hospital where his dad is).
Aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! I feel like a crazy lady! I am sitting in this quiet house, near the cozy fire, yet my mind is like a boomerang. I've got to come up with a plan. A really good plan. Just about myself. How I will handle situations. What I want to be like.
Then I need to go somewhere. There is no possible way to get away right now. But I will figure something out.
So much for "as soon as this baby is born..."
Shining- I looked at plane tickets today- no joke! But they were too much right now. I will keep my eye out. Wouldn't a weekend be fun?
Mighty, I would love it if you could come here!! We could both use some girly GAL time. For SURE. I'm dang fed up and done, man.. I'll set alerts on my end. Also... Do you have the kik app? Ask your kiddos or Google it and search Shining. So, for airports...DFW and Dallas Love Field, both pretty equal distance from me.
Mighty, I think we all appreciate how much is going on, and I suspect no one could keep all of those plates spinning without having problems.
Your focus probably needs to be on getting through each day with authenticity.
The fear of rejection is potent. Your xh is probably also worried about this too. It is part of rebuilding trust - how can you trust this guy to follow through, to do the right thing by you?
How can he be sure that the hurt and resentment can ever be overcome. That is why at some point couples who rebuild need help to refocus.
AJ is right, ultimately it will be your call. Because of your fears of rejection you don't see it that way.
Hang in there and try to relax - Go visit Shining - have some fun.
Look at skiplagged.com for plane tickets. The guy who set this up is being sued by some airlines and cheap ticket sites like orbitz because he found a way to find cheaper flights than they thought were possible.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
It's hard finding the balance between being kind and supportive (gently helping him out of the tunnel???), being sure to keep a healthy dynamic (not falling back into old habits which didn't work), boundary setting, and keeping my own emotions in check while dealing with the past, the present, and trying to find my way into the future.
^^^^^^ it's like you are in my brain and succinctly put together all I'm thinking! My STBXH wants to be friends " remain close" as he says. I just don't think I can do that right now. Like you the rejection, the idea that the one person that took vows to stand by me has walked away, is just devastating. But on the other hand I love him and you love your XH and we want to help them out of this MLC tunnel and hopefully see them grow.
Something that I've noticed in my sitch and I think applies to yours right now: My H has started to realize partly what he's done and his contribution to the mess. But he hasn't started to do the work. It's like they start to see the damage, feel the pain and guilt, and then run back into the tunnel. That's when the blaming starts again. I see your H being overwhelmed with his mess and he just can't deal.
Don't know that I have any great words of wisdom- just that hopefully time will help us heal and them grow. Keeping you in my prayers!!
Me 41 H 40 M 20 T 23 S 19,16, 8 D 13 BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015 Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
Mighty and daring, You can be there to listen and if asked, give your thoughts, advise, etc., but they've got to figure things out on their own. I know you love your h's very much, but they need to feel the pain, go thru the pain, realize what they've done and yes, clean up their messes and if they truly want to return to you, the relationship and family, then they have to be the ones to do the necessary work to prove to you that they are ready to take on the challenge of earning your trust once again.
Step back, allow them to figure things out and be there as the lighthouse in their storm of emotional coasters. This is the only way that you can help them. If you try to help them too much, they will either not learn the lessons that they need to learn in order to grow and mature into healthy human beings or they'll run right back up into the tunnel for a bit longer.
Nothing says you have to be "friends" right now, but you can be civil, courteous and compassionate. Try to keep your focus on you, your children and your lives for now.
This is a difficult journey for all, but more so when they start to show signs of wanting to be w/family. Don't rush the process, allow them to figure things out, i.e., in other words don't rescue them any more than you have to, unless you find yourself in a financial situation.
Both of you are doing very well in spite of what has been thrown at you. And, yes, you will be the ones to make the decision as to whether you want to reconcile w/them if they do the work necessary and earn your trust once again...but that's down the road a bit.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I'm staying busy, but honestly, it's not enough. I just can't seem to find what it is that I want to do with myself.
So, um, what are you going to do while you wait? Lots of frenetic energy and introspection? Painting? Basketball? Skydiving? Meditation? Travel the world? What's the recharging mechanism for Mighty?
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AJ- It's interesting that you see the ball in my court. I feel that halfway. I think I want to feel that he wants this and would really put effort into this- then I would make a decision. I feel like I want to be the one to decide. I think I fear another rejection. When I really think about it, I guess that if weren't to work out, I would want it to be my call. Isn't that terrible? It's not that I think I don't want it to work out.... but I just don't know what I want- but I do know I don't want to be rejected like that again.
We all want a happy ending, don't we? Even Jack can admit he's sometimes a Polyanna. And that's saying something! But it seems ex is behind you in his growth. He'll need to make a large effort to catch up to say the least. And it may be too late for him to catch up. You have dealt with so many very painful things that he has yet to address in addition to whatever the original problem was. He's moving, but he's not done and is just not in the same place. Yet and may not ever be at the same time you are. Because you may not want to be there. You are very much in control and even if felt to be unfair (it's not), have that power.
Let's face it, you're not done dealing with the fallout of everything that happened. And you're once again figuring out what the future relationship will look like with ex. Good friends? Lovers? Partners? Bitter enemies or even frienemies?
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Honestly, I don't even want to finish the conversation anymore (just disappointed about how it went down). I am just tired of it. Xh probably feels the same way.
Stop doing this to yourself. You do NOT know why. Don't guess. You'll get it wrong more often than not.
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That could be why he is not only avoiding it, but avoiding me now. And that's OK (not the avoiding conversation- something that needs to stop), but for him to take care of stuff. He has so many conversations to have, that he is probably sick of it, too.
See above comment. But stop this kind of thinking, ok?
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The other day, xh and I were talking, and I mentioned that it never would go back to the way it was. He seemed taken aback by this and asked why. I said bc he is not the same, I am not the same, the kids aren't the same, and things have changed. He seemed really down and disappointed to hear this. It's kind of sad. I have seen him try to make everything around here like it was before he left (remember- even paint color!), and talks about how good it was before he left (but he didn't realize it until after he left), and how we had such a good life, a happy life, and we didn't have any real problems in our family (That's an understatement compared to now!). But I don't think it ever crossed his mind that it won't be the same.
These are the two things that tell me he isn't finished baking yet He hasn't hit full realization yet and doesn't see the upside of the events yet. Think about it. You've changed and he's changed. But you've done a LOT of work, while for him, time stood still outside his head and inside...well, that's not really the kind of stuff that helps him keep up, now is it?
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You are right, AJ, I can now look back with a different perspective. Some things may and could be the same. Other things can't. And some... need to change.
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It's hard finding the balance between being kind and supportive (gently helping him out of the tunnel???), being sure to keep a healthy dynamic (not falling back into old habits which didn't work), boundary setting, and keeping my own emotions in check while dealing with the past, the present, and trying to find my way into the future.
Kind of like driving right? When you first start it's all about "check the mirrors, hands at 10 and 2, no no, that's not right anymore, make that....and don't forget to check the mirrors when you ease into traffic, use your turn signal! Stop. Go. Speed up, keep up, slow down...." Whew. Seems overwhelming when you first start and put so much conscious energy into it worrying about getting it "right" doesn't it?
One thing that may help is re-framing the question. The original question of "how can I love somebody who did this unfair thing(s) to me and my kids??" could be reframed to "Even though he did these things, is it ok to love him anyway??"
It may also help to know that you survi...no, thrived even though the unthinkable (at that time) happened. You can and would do it again if needed. Not pleasant, but not the end of the world either.
You are different. And amazing, but weighed down with a bit of stuff you didn't expect to have to deal with. The good news is, you are one of those that the experience will make better and not bitter. Just try to do it without making excuses for his behavior. That's a form of trying to reconcile it in your head, but comes out as rose-colored glasses. That won't help long-term.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
We all want a happy ending, don't we? Even Jack can admit he's sometimes a Polyanna. And that's saying something! wink But it seems ex is behind you in his growth. He'll need to make a large effort to catch up to say the least. And it may be too late for him to catch up. You have dealt with so many very painful things that he has yet to address in addition to whatever the original problem was. He's moving, but he's not done and is just not in the same place. Yet and may not ever be at the same time you are. Because you may not want to be there. You are very much in control and even if felt to be unfair (it's not), have that power.
Let's face it, you're not done dealing with the fallout of everything that happened. And you're once again figuring out what the future relationship will look like with ex. Good friends? Lovers? Partners? Bitter enemies or even frenemies?
A.J.,
I think I get it. I may only have it for 15 seconds or so, but I get it.
I've had a hard time wrapping my head around this idea that the LBS is still in control of the relationship. I've really struggled with this one. I've felt so outta control. Smokey seems to impact every area of my life with his actions and crazy.
Mighty,
In the days of yore...for a good 3 decades of my life, I had Smokey wrapped, somewhat, around my little finger. He loved me and he would do whatever was necessary to keep me around. At least, that's how it felt. He would buy tampons if I asked, he would stop doing drugs, temporarily, to keep me in his life.
I was watching a comedy the other night and I watched this played out on my TV scene. This guy was in love and willing to do silly things because he loved this woman and wanted to make her happy. I felt sad because I remember that experience and longed for it. The victim inside me started thinking, "What happened to that guy? How could HE leave ME?"
Now, in my current life, at this stage of the MLC roller coaster, Smokey seems to have rejected me, at least for the moment, completely. I'm persona non grata. I think THIS is what you are afraid of going back to. The complete rejection by someone we love.
Your guy has given you a morsel of his loving you again and you are feeling caught in a barbed wire fence, in my opinion. Part of you is drawn to that comfortable feeling of his loving you again. Part of you hates him for what he has done.
But, here's the thing...even I, in my current state of utter rejection, still have control.
I can give up control completely by acting the victim with Smokey. Or, I have the choice of being the girl/woman he fell in love with...someone who is kind, generous, funny, smart, goofy and endearing, beautiful, amazing...AND, NOW, thanks to his insanity... incredibly strong and resilient.
When I go into victim mode, I'm giving up all control. I'm allowing him to drive the bus.
When I embrace that I have choices...and, even acknowledge, that if I really wanted to...I probably have the power to get that same wacked out guy to buy more tampons for me. I could. I still know him better than anyone on this planet. If I threw myself into getting him back into my life, chances are I could slowly make progress. If I choose to go that route. I might have to give up a lot, though...my self-respect, my integrity...IDK.
But, the question is...do I want to work that hard? Am I willing to give that much up? Do I want to lose myself again in that trap of making someone else the nerve center of my life.
It all comes back to me.
Ultimately, the marriages that seem to work out, on these boards at least, are the ones where the LBS stops working so hard on the spouse, focuses on themselves, and regains the control of their life which they lost and put all of of their energy into making themselves great. The spouse has the choice to do the work or not.
What a slippery, tricky slope. Let go to regain control. Give unconditional love without expectations. Allow someone to make their own mistakes and own them. Take charge of your own life and make the conscious decision to love with detachment.
I will never stop loving Smokey, but I can fall out of love with the unrealistic fantasy I had of him. I can look at him honestly as an imperfect human being who is a bit limited in his current state. And, in turn, I'm giving him a much greater gift...which he is totally oblivious to see, where I'm loving him enough to back the he!! off.
When you sleep next to someone for decades, you develop a bond...a biochemical bond which is really hard to sever. I think that chemistry makes it hard for us to face some hard truths when dealing with someone with so many problems. We want what feels good. We don't want the pain.
I'm afraid, however, the pain will be there regardless of which direction you choose.
And, I wonder, in my case at least, did I make the decision a while ago to let Smokey go? I mean, I'm sure there was a point where I could have accommodated him to keep the marriage going. At some point, did I become stronger and realize I wanted more? I stopped being OK with him as he was? Did I leave the marriage first?
I think what I did was make it clear I wanted more and he could either step up or leave. I allowed the fractures to grow larger. I didn't even know I was making this statement.
Sorry for the hijack. This just touched a nerve today.
"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man
“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
First of all, I want in on that weekend...just sayin.
Mighty, would you want to have any kind of conversation if you were him? Not saying that's right. Just saying that after what he's done and all...I'm thinking that he would just like you to forget it and pretend it all didnt happen as it did.
The thing about you having power and control, at least in my eyes is this. You get to decide how you act. You get to decide what you say. You get to determine how you feel about him and about yourself. You get to decide if you are willing to try with him or not.
You do have power in all this. A great deal of it. I think that you have these ideas in your head of how he should act if he really wants back in. But they may not be the same ideas he has. I would imagine he is thinking he will just slip back into his old life with a little variation regarding his responsibility to the baby and you will be ok with that.
The power is again yours in that you get to decide if you are on board.
What I honestly think is that you need to come to terms with all the has happened in a short amount of time, M, before you can really figure out what you want.
This is huge stuff that transpired. Huge. And you have been on autopilot for awhile. Putting out fires with your son, getting divorced, your mom being sick, your xh having an affair and a baby, etc.
I think you should put off even trying to decide what you want for right now and just work on coming to terms with all that's happened.
Find your footing, M. Regroup some.
And really accept that your xh has to figure his stuff out. He cant do that while looking over his shoulder at you. He just cant.
Then take the time to really look at what you want and what that looks like.
As long as you are so focused on him and where his is and if he calls, you cant figure out Mighty.
Hey guys. Deep breath. Not good right now, but I am sure I will bounce back soon.
I did go today with the kids and xh to the movies and out to eat. It was fine. When we got home, the kids were getting ready to go to my moms to finish helping her out. I mentioned to xh that it would be a good time to finish our convo (we discussed this before leaving to movies). He said he was taking the movie back (he and s17 rented last night) and he'd be back in a minute. Then he texted me that he was going, "you know where."
I was devastated. Blown off again... so he could go there. I called him (something I stopped doing over a year ago)to tell him that it was disrespectful to tell me he'd be right back, then call her and make plans. Ugh. Kick in the gut.
So he said we could talk over the phone as he drove there. He refused to do it to my face and he just doesn't get it. He said he needs space, and I told him that's what the convo was about and that we needed to set up arrangements for the kids and everything. He was like, oh so you don't want me coming over anymore? I said that I didn't like how he took the part of the conversation that was had as having space, meaning he just doesn't tell me what he is doing and still coming and going here. That I am uncomfortable with him being totally comfortable sitting in my house, then leaving and being totally comfortable sitting with her at her house.
He says that it is just about the kids now and he does not want to focus on a r with me or her. OK, so now.... I wonder if he is considering going back to her. OMG. I really wonder. I asked him straight out if he has considered it and he just said that he isn't thinking about that with anyone right now. Before he would tell me that there is no way he would ever go back there. Now, with the baby here, EVERYTHING has changed with him. Everything he said he was going to do and say is different. He didn't anticipate how he would really feel about the baby, and I wonder if that changes how he feels about hww.
OK, so I will just focus on the fact that he wants to focus on the kids. I will respect that... even thought that's exactly what I was trying to establish a week ago.
But, yes, the rejection. I feel it's stinging, slicing pain. He regrets all he told me after he left hww.
I feel disrespected that he would run there before she had the baby for "closure" for "plans" about what to do with baby, stuff, etc. Yet, he does not give me the same courtesy. He still has stuff there, and he moved out 2 months ago. His mailing address is still there, too.
I think he is regressing. I wonder if now how much. I wonder if he will go back because of the baby to try to get it right this time or something.
I have got to get this out of my head. But now, here I am.... kids are gone with my car again and I'm here alone. I would have gone with them if I'd known he was going to blow me off. Instead, he is there with his other family.
I know I'm not totally back at square one. I've been through this before, kind of. But I just can't seem to break the cycle. I can't totally get out of this. I just don't know how to find happiness anymore. First, bomb, then nuke. What's this? Operation Baby Drop?
What point will this end? I am so tired of the hurt. I don't get a baby out of this. He thinks it's difficult, but he gets another child to love and to love him.
I keep asking WHY? I hate complaining. I don't want to feel sorry for myself. I just don't get why. Like why did I have to beg for a reversal? He would cancel the appointments and I would reschedule them.
I feel sad that he can't be a friend for me. That he can't give me support that I need. The person who was supposed to be there for me the most. He has to go to his baby as I sob. And I understand he has to be there for his baby. I just feel like the bottom barrel. Empty. Like I've got no one. I'm tired of being alone. I'm tired of being pushed aside. I'm tired of not being a priority in anyone's life.
AAAHHHHH! I am so grossed out by how pathetic I sound. I just wish that sometimes he could just be here for me. Not even have to say a word, but know that he would set something aside for once... anything, just to be there for me. But he's not. And he won't. And he doesn't want to be. So why would I want someone who can't and doesn't want to be there for me?
These are the thoughts I have to keep in mind. And maybe someone would be someday. But I can't rely on that. Especially rely on the idea of some non-existent person being there for me. I don't even want to have to rely on the idea of someone being there. I've done OK without anyone for the last year. I mean, I guess OK. I've pulled myself out of some down days. But I guess I am just wishing I didn't have to continue to do that.
OK, this is only a moment. That does make me feel better to think that. But, I have to remind myself that a lot. When will these moments STOP?
I'm so sorry. This is so lame. Pity part is coming to an end. I feel a little better. Crap! I can't wait for the day where I have nothing but positivity and good news! Geesh!
I have got to get out of my own head. I don't know what steps to take anymore, though. I don't know where to go, what to do, how to get there. What happened to me? I was doing better. I feel like I am at a stand-still, just spinning around in circles.
One thing that bothers me is xh will ask me or text me, Are you OK? I hate that. I always say I'm fine. Even when I'm not. BC, what the heck is he going to do? Nothing. Why does he ask? Does it make him feel better?
Well... that's that. This close proximity is too much. I asked him if he was going to get an apartment (he had indicated before, a few times, that he'd be back here after leaving bil- yet I always suggested he get his own place for awhile). He said he would be getting an apartment but staying with bil for awhile to save money. Man, he sure has blown a lot of money the past year.
I doubt he will take the baby to bil, so I guess visits will always be at hww for quite some time.
Not my problem. I've got my own stuff to figure out. Like which direction to step. But I am really scared to step. That realization makes me cry. When did I become such a wimp?! Dang it. I am so frustrated right now.
OK, I've got to stop this rant now. Thank God this is anonymous.
This is the best place to spew and get it all out. Seriously. There are so many things wrong with what is going down in your life that who could possibly blame you for feeling down and abandoned and left behind yet AGAIN?!
My situation is completely different but I have found that close proximity is SUPER hard and just way too much to handle. His come and go as he pleases attitude is asking too much.
Your support of him being there for the baby is admirable and a level of adult-hood I'm not sure I'll ever reach but that does not mean you have to lay down and accept his cavalier treatment of you. You matter. Remind yourself of that.
The reality is, you can't rely on him to be there for you... at least not yet. He's just not there yet. YOU need to be there for you. YOU do. And you have the power and the will to do it. You're entitled to wail for a bit, absolutely, but in the end, YOU'RE there for YOU.
Can you call a friend to pick you up and go get some coffee? 1 hour. Nothing serious. I find that after something like this, if I'm alone I will think only about it and not move on for DAYS!
I'm feeling a little better... maybe... in a way. I took a shower and got into my jammies. Gonna have a cup of tea. I just sat down feeling calmer, but I notice my heart is pounding. I didn't notice it before, and don't know if it was then.
I know I'm not a good light house. I've cried. I've yelled. I've become really frustrated. I get screwed up by him being so screwed up. I am screwed up. Him saying one thing and doing another has made me overly emotional. He's seen it. I am sure it has made him run. I have remained calm when he needed me to be strong. I have been there for him when he has needed it. But I have failed, too. I have made mistakes. I am an emotional mess sometimes. He can't handle that. Maybe I am the sirens. I have been pretty good since the baby has been here. But, I've had some moment. Moments I'm not so proud of. I just don't know what to do with all of this. I feel like I need some type of validation from him. I know better, so why do I set myself up?
I read about people here, who are calm, gracious, put-together. They can pull this stuff off. Why do I flip out? He doubts everything about me because of my moments of weakness. He can't handle it. So now, I wonder if he is going there to her for the calmness and security.
I have been very strong for many days. He does not see this. The weak ones stick out. And, he is so super sensitive, he takes a lot of things wrong... so sometimes, he thinks more of situations than they actually are.
Well you are certainly not alone in the "I don't know what to do with myself" camp. I'll sit next to you.
You HAVE been very strong, Mighty. You have! But you're not being strong so he'll see it. You're being strong because that's WHO YOU ARE!
And I completely relate when you say the weak days stick out. I can hang out with WAH for hours and the ONE time I say something that even remotely reminds him of the old days it's like he pulls back and needs to detox for three weeks. It's cool though because you know what?
I'm a work in progress. I'm not perfect and will never be perfect. I will not fit into his little mold of what he needs and wants at every single moment of every single day.
I am me.
Do you think you need a break from all this? Time to step back and breathe, recenter, recalibrate, reassess, find your footing?
You're no the only flipper outer, either. The goal isn't to be calm, gracious, put-together... the goal here is to be the BEST YOU and sometimes the best you in the moment is a flipper outer.
Accept yourself for who you are. What you put forward and how you process things.
You, just as you are, are valuable! ^^^^ the post above seems to imply that you're everything you don't want to be.
Ss... first... thank you for being here with me tonight.
And, I laughed at:
Quote:
sometimes the best you in the moment is a flipper outer.
Yeah.... sometimes.... I'm that.
But then you took me to task:
Quote:
the post above seems to imply that you're everything you don't want to be
Hmmm... I don't know. I don't know who I am, really. Just frustrated. And now, feeling like he is there, because she is calm (maybe??) frustrates me. They sit together in the living room for hours at a time with this baby (he told me). She isn't as emotional because she isn't as invested. She hasn't had the devastation that I have. That they created. So am I resentful that she is the one who is calm now? Yes! See... sounds messed up. I could come up with a million reasons why that's screwed up and why I need to pull it together. But, it still frustrates me.
However, she is shallow and doesn't really care right now, because who she thought she loved, she doesn't even know. And she is still getting the same money going into their joint account that has gone in since they bought a house. So, I am sure, once that part starts coming up, it probably won't be so sweet. But, he seems like he wants to give her the world now... so who knows.
I can keep this thought, though. If he does go back to her. Good luck. It is the exact same person he was with before. And now, just now, thinking of this, makes me think that maybe I would care a little less if he did go back to her. Is this what I want?
If that's what makes him happy.... well... I doubt it... but it must be something. Give it time. I know how it will end. I'm pretty sure.
And this friendship will cease to exist. No anger. No animosity. I am just not ok with the duo who disrespected and destroyed me and my family.
BTW, ss. Not only thank you, but great posts, too. They were really helpful to me tonight. I'm gonna try to sleep.
I pray you get a goods night sleep. Things will be better tomorrow. Relax and try not to think about your xh and the mess he has caused. Get some GALs set up for you. Make time with some good girl friends or female family and just be silly and laugh. Go shopping if you can andbuy something for yourself
Me 43 ring off Oct 2014 (my ring back on Feb 2015) H 51 (ring off 7/2013) M 2007 T 1996 S 14 July 2013- H told me he was unhappy.....said he is staying for Son Feb 18 2014 Found out about OW
All those people that seem so put together? Composed? I don't buy it. We ALL get the way you're talking about.
I'm sure you felt a little better once you got it out. The heart pounding etc? Yep. Been there and done that. Many times.
What stands out is the expectations you have. Expectations of him being there for you when he can't even be there for himself.
You are close to a person who's broken. It can be infectious if you're not careful. Seriously.
But why would anyone think you should be different? I mean, you are in the midst of taking a chance. With all the hair-raising thrills and chills that go with it. It's fraught with danger, confusion, and unknowns.
It's hard. There will be days like this.
The trick is to figure out when to get that space. When to pull back. And when not to. The reason you would or wouldn't is if you're authentically YOU.
The other thing to realize? It's not all about him. We've been telling you that, but it's hard to see sometimes.
The anxiety, anger and general not knowing what to do next? Par for the course, Mighty.
When you detach from the outcome, it smoothes out the ride. When you embrace the unknown and turn it back into a mole hill, it becomes less scary. What's left is a confident and strong woman who's been there and done that and left nothing on the table. Not just a survivor, but a thriver.
Facing the unknown is difficult. You are, overall, handling it admirably. Better than most in a short time.
You want what you want. It's good to know what you want, because that's the basis for what you're going to do next.
But don't cheat yourself of the overall pot of gold. Stand and face your fears and uncertainties. Try your best to do so with grace and dignity. And don't beat yourself up along the way, Mighty.
Regain your perspective. The big picture. Look at things from a 10 year perspective looking back. See yourself in that view and be gentle with yourself. Perspective will help you see who and what you are and what you are doing and why. It'll also help you when you get to these kind of days. It'll help you see you have some unresolved things to deal with (can I get a "duh"?)
And that's OK. So is having some times when you ask "why?" or "what for?"
Tomorrow's a new day for you. What's it going to be like? Better I suspect...
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
You think he's there because "she's calm" but you don't know that.
Maybe she called him on his way to return the movie and was sobbing and crying because the baby was fussy all day and she's exhausted and pissed that he wasn't around. Eh? Possible?
IMO, it's equally as possible as him going there because "she's calm" and you're "not".
He's not treating you well, IMO, and in the meantime you're not taking good care of yourself.
Sleep well. Tomorrow is another day. And you ARE strong.
First off, you ARE NOT A WIMP!!! You are as far from a wimp as anyone I've ever heard of. You have handled things with great grace and strength. I actually am not surprised that xh is going back on much of what he said. The change was sudden and it was mostly just what he SAID and you know the first rule about believing what they say. Like I said last week you can't be sure of anything including xh going back to her. Think about how she has been playing on his emotions, using the baby as an excuse to see him, etc. The fact that xh just wants things to be like before except he doesn't want to have any responsibility to YOU.
Just like a typical MLCer, he expects you to understand the stress he's been under but acts like you have no stress at all. He is being selfish as ever. The only thing that has changed is he no longer is sure about hww being the answer to finding happiness. He is still all about him. You saw what you wanted to see when he left his and hww's house (yes, it's not HER place, it's THEIR place). He is the most selfish person I have ever seen. He is on a path of destruction with no thoughts at all of anyone else, not you, not his kids with you, not his new baby, not hww. No one matters to him but him.
I think you need to stop thinking of it as him rejecting you. It's him being crazy, not acting rationally, being really stupid. If he isn't willing to make any effort he needs to stop treating your home like it's his...it's not. God, MLCers are just so blind. They act like no one else has feelings, deserves respect.
Mighty, I really understand that you wanted to think that xh was getting better, wanted to believe from what he was saying that he was starting to come out of his fog. I would have probably done the same in your position. Time to understand that he isn't respecting boundaries. I think it's time for him to stop thinking he can get support from you and you getting zero in return. I get exactly how you feel. You really don't need someone but dang, it sure is nice to have it. You have been having to be strong not just for you but for your kids as well for a long time. It only natural that you would like to have someone to be strong for you, too. Don't beat yourself up for that. But don't let it hold you back either.
Believe it or not there will come a time when you won't need to be so strong all the time. Hang in there, your time is coming!
Mighty, I always have to be honest...that's just who I am. It doesnt serve you well if I'm not.
He is telling you that he doesnt want a relationship with anyone. He is there for the kids. You need to hear it even if you dont want to.
That doesnt mean he will always feel like that. It doesnt even mean that it's true. But it's how he thinks he feel right now.
He isnt there for you, you're right. I dont think he is capapble of it at this time. He just isnt.
So, you havent expectations of that isnt a good thing for you.
You are so hard on yourself, M. Really hard. When the truth is that have been dealing with some deep, heartbreaking stuff.
I think you have got to get off the ride for now. You are spinning and it isnt good for you.
You have to get to a place of detachment. I know thats a hard thing. I do. But you are just going round and round.
He cannot give you what you want now. Even if that is just as a friend who supports you. He has nothing to give. He is still a mess.
He has hurt two women. He cant face what he's done to you. And I think he has terrible guilt about bringing this baby into the world.
So, he is trying to do what he can for all of you. Im not giving him a free pass because he has to own all the cr@p he has done. I am just saying that this is all he is capable of right now.
Is he making the right choices? Probably not. But he is in crisis and has created a great, big mess.
What does this mean for you? It means that you have to stop expecting anything from him. It means that you have to remember how strong you are. It means that you need to really leave him to figure this out without interfering.
Oh and flipping out? Been there, done that, too. We are human dealing with situations so far away from what we knew.
M, leave him to this. For real. Hear him. Take care of you.
You are so strong and amazing. You deserve to get to a place of peace.
No one knows what the future holds...except that it holds you.
You are close to a person who's broken. It can be infectious if you're not careful. Seriously.
That is a very wise dude.
As far as any person can, we have a pretty good idea of how you feel. The advice you have been given is fabulous. Don't feel bad about yourself. most people wouldn't have been as gracious as you.
As for put together - you should see me when I have had to go three rounds with my crazy little bunny. Without belittling their human dignity, it can help to just think 'crazy person' when you have any interaction.
Back right off. State your terms and conditions and stick to them. He wants a relationship with his kids. Good, let him have one. As Job reminds us - we didn't break them and we can't fix them. Be a great mother to your children - as you always are. They need one sane parent.
Keep your contact with him to a minimum, and do not allow unrestricted coming and going to your home. Be pleasant and distant as you would with a work colleague, and no relationship talk. You are probably worried that this will drive him back to hww. But the reality is that whatever he does is down to him.
The thing is with MLCers they either have no idea of how other people feel, or they don't care. Either way they need to get their empathy chip fixed. If he honestly wants to be with hww and the baby that is his choice. But in that case he can't cake eat. Which he has been doing.
You are a fabulous human being and you need to stand up for that person. this guy is trying to trash you again. What a b*stard
Mighty, I'm very sorry about his behavior. He's not ready to face the consequences of his actions, hence the avoidance of the talk w/you. He's broken, he's not reliable and you can't rely on someone to be there for you when he can't even take care of himself.
Everyone has given you excellent advice and support. Go back and re-read all of it. You are a wonderful person who is dealing w/a very broken individual. Bea's post is one to re-read because she, like all of us, have had moments w/our bunnies. No one is put together totally because like the energizer bunny, they keep coming back around and around until we have to set boundaries and have little contact w/them. So, he wants to be there for the kids, then let him. I might be wrong, but you are a fixer. I have a feeling that when he's around you, you tend to feel the need to want to help him. You can't. You can listen, but then he needs to grow up and the only way to do that is to allow him to fix his own messes.
Mighty, it's time to set your boundaries and have very little contact w/him, except for conversations w/the children and/or financial issues. The more you interact w/him, the more frustrated you will become. Step back, you can be civil/friendly, but no expectations. He's still in the oven baking and until he wakes up and makes a decision as to whether he wants to reconcile or move forward w/the baby momma then boundaries need to be put in place to help you.
He's cake eating and it's time to take the cake away from him. He needs to face the consequences of his actions. He can't have it both ways. Time to take care of Mighty.
You wouldn't believe the crazeee I unleashed on Smokey for months and months and he still peaked out of the tunnel and gave his lame attempt at reconciliation...AFTER all the crazeee.
In the end, I'm not sure it makes a whole helluva big difference what we do or don't do. But, we still have the power if we choose to use it. This shid is so complicated.
Being a lighthouse doesn't mean contorting yourself into insane positions that break your bones and dignity. I mean, you could. You have the choice to bend and twist and allow him all of this cake eating...But, that's not being a lighthouse.
If your goal is to be the lighthouse, then think about a lighthouse...firmly footed, consistent, beautiful, a beacon of stability no matter what storm is raging. Remove him from the equation for now...just focus on how to get YOURSELF to this place. How do you get that? How do you BE that?
Right now, he is unable to steer his ship TO the lighthouse. He is a nightmare on acid...and then some.
Give him the gift of goodbye for now. Step back, regain some perspective.
When Smokey took his short-lived vacation from crazee-land, I hung onto him with all my strength. I gave him everything I had. I squeezed every bit of clarity that man had outta of his skin with my fear, anxiety, abandonment issues...I was the crazy person on the shore screaming "Pick Me!"
I did more damage to myself and the kids.
I have an extra bedroom if you need to get away. The north country is beautiful this time of year. I could meet you halfway or even come to Buffalo. I'm in a much better position to meet up than I was a few months ago.
"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man
“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
Smokes, you guys! YOU are the strong ones! You were so strong for me! Thank you. Got me through, yet, another tough one.
That just made me think... I wonder how xh gets through these tough times? I mean... no wonder he is so stuck and mixed up right now... he doesn't have- YOU! (or any support system )
So... he came back last night. He knew I was having a rough time. It was nice he came back- and we were able to talk!
He told me he avoided the conversation bc he didn't want to stop seeing me and the kids (I guess he means free range with the kids?). So he avoided it. Then he said the last couple of days, he thought about it and thought it was a good idea to have space and that he needs to stay focused on the kids. (However his actions indicate the same behavior).
Now... the gut wrenching part- the part that made me break out into an all-over sweat (I know, gross).
He said he can't guarantee 100% that he won't go back to hww.
Say what??!!
Now it was really mixed up how he was saying it. He said he can't say that bc he does not know what will happen in the future as now he is focusing on the kids. All of them.
But then he said he wouldn't (kind of, in a way said it) go back, because he won't forget how things went down. To me this implied he was ok with the sitch, until things went down at the end (with my kids and how she handled it).
So I asked, if he got over that or if things went down differently, would it be different? (I know, too many questions- but I was confused... and remember.... sweating profusely). He said he wouldn't forget how she acted towards him when things were tough. He would sit in the basement (I guess it was pretty empty except his weight bench and he would always sit down there) and be upset about his r with the kids and how she would get upset at him and say that he cant let it ruin what they have there.(He told me this before) He said he can't forget how she wasn't (I can't remember exact words) supportive or compassionate of what he was dealing with. So because of that, I guess he wouldn't go back, but on a different note, can't say 100% sure that he would never go back.
WTF?
OK, I think I will just write that off as crazy-head. And, it only give me more momentum to back the f off.
What I see the sitch as, is back a year ago (only WAY more screwed up now)... him at a place where he was supposed to figure himself out. Yet, he had his distraction. And he had to chose what he wanted. (I thought marriage or not, didn't know the choice was her or me).
But I don't want to be in a position again waiting on him. Not when there is a choice involved. If it were waiting on him to "heal" or whatever, I could wait and see what we are working with. But a choice between her or me. No thanks. Not gonna happen. I do not want to be in a position where a man has to chose between me and another woman. Particularly the man who was my husband and his mistress. Grrr....
It sounds pretty mess up, I know. I feel good about getting my own self back on track. Back where I was. And the way I see it, he is stuck. He has legal/custody things to finalize with her, yet he isn't finalizing things that could hand should have been done a long time ago. Like the rest of his stuff, mailing address.
And, since he is always there, I feel like he had one foot in the door here, and one there. He really needs to knock it off. He needs to see the reality of the sitch he is in. Alone- not at all his baby mommas' houses. This is not reality. He is stuck. He will not see reality until he faces it. He can't do that in the position he is in. So, if I have to cut him off here, so be it. And if that means he feels at home there and goes back... so be it.
He says he wants to stay out of the drama- he is the drama.
So we decided last night that we would think about a schedule for him to see the kids (difficult when they are older, but we will figure something other than what we have now). I wish he would get one for the other one too, but that's not my ball game. We are supposed to discuss it today.
So, here is the interesting part. He texted me this morning to tell me he was going over there to be with the baby bc hww is taking her son out.
OK, so that seemed like a lot of info. Not sure why he told me, as all week, he kept it under wraps and I never asked a word. He said he did not want to feel like he had to report to me, yet, I have never said anything about him going there since the baby has been here. (Referring back to when we had open communication).
I'm confused. I know he is. I didn't respond. I don't even know what to say! I am sure today will be only more confusing for him. He will get the results confirming it's his. I think this will only make him feel even more guilty.
But- I am focusing on me now. I wrote out the things I needed to address in our conversation. I have a tendency to forget or digress. It is better for me to write it out so I can focus on the task at hand. Scatter-brain much? Yes, I was dropped on my head as a baby. Ha! No joke..... by that I mean- don't make any jokes.
I am also feeling a little more ready for getting back to gal. It's amazing how much better you feel when you aren't waiting around for someone.
And that's the ticket. I realize it's only been a few hours, but I've been down and up so much in the past year that I realize that when you are waiting on someone else, it hinders your ability to gal. To think about what you want- because you are focused on someone else- thinking that's all you want. But, what if that person wants something you don't. Well, that's a scary place to be.
If I keep moving, I think the odds of one of two things happening increase. He moves away from me, or he moves along with me- not at the same place, but progression. There is a chance of being stuck, but I can't imagine him being stuck like this forever. It's not him. But, what the heck do I know?
Going back to reread all of the posts from last night. That's good literature!
I know he believes it is his baby, but I'm still praying the results today show it's NOT his! Wouldn't you love to see the fireworks with HWW if that turns out to be the case???
Step away from his drama. Until he's made up his mind as to which one he wants to be with permanently, then he wouldn't be cake eating at my house. He's the drama king and he needs to figure out what he wants and clean up his mess. If he opts to return to you too soon, then he'll continue the current MLC at a later date.
Mighty, he reminds me of a teenager, relying heavily on "mom" to listen and fix his problems for him. You are far to available to him and he needs to realize that you are divorced and you do have a life of your own and are living it. He needs to see that you are moving forward and are taking care of you and your children. If he wants to spend time w/the children, that's okay, but he needs to start taking them to his place and spending time w/them. He needs to be taking them out by himself and actually feel the loss of you. He can't do that if you are readily available and doing things w/him as a "family" unit.
Mighty...it's time to set those boundaries and adhere to them. If you don't, he'll continue waffling and cake eating until someone stops the merry-go-around.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I can’t even place myself where you are. As someone who cares deeply for you looking in, it is hard to see you spin like this.
Mighty, I see you trying so hard to find peace.
I believe you are doing everything you possibly can and then some to get there.
The thing is, although you write that you are detached, and that you are focusing on yourself, you really are not. You are too deep in it to see this. You are actually doing the opposite of what you think you are doing.
For me, I couldn't see it until I stepped back. You can’t see it yet. But you will.
Take a breath. Get out of the house. Heck, get out of the state if you have to. It may be just what you need to shake things up and gain a different perspective.
My dear friend, this is not going to turn around anytime soon. You are taking crumbs. It gives you hope. Then it goes haywire, and you're upset.
Paying attention to him and her are not serving you well. Not at all.
What I mean by that, is when you guess what they are doing, when they do it and why, and what they were thinking, and what they will do in the future, what he has realized, when is he staying there, when is he coming here, what he blames you for now....
He hasn't done the work. Not one ounce. Don't get taken to soothe his immediate needs, because that is all you are doing.
You are putting energy into something you have zero control over. It is a waste. And it only hurts you. I believe it is keeping you stuck.
I see how much you love him. Your M was real. It was meaningful. And obviously you were both very connected as a couple because there is still a tie that can’t be undone.
However, he is in crisis. He cannot be that man now. The hope is he can in the future. Watching the chaos is causing more pain for you, Might.
SHOULD you find yourself working on a R in the future, the less you know about them, the less you have to work through in piecing. You must stop watching, stop asking questions that are not about the kids…and restrict the convo to YOUR kids only…and stop thoughts of wondering about them altogether.
You must stop letting their behaviors become engraved into your memory.
He may be there in body….but, Mighty, right now? He is gone.
I’m so sorry to say that. I know how bad it hurts to realize, because I have been there.
Resisting the truth of that is keeping you in pain.
You guys are totally accurate. I know this. I am trying to figure out now exactly what I need to do for me. For starters- space. Away. I've detached before. I know I can do it again. The close proximity is a little more difficult, but it can be done.
Today we are to work out a schedule. I hope he is mentally available enough for it to actually happen, given today's pending results.
This cannot continue this way. I have to remove myself. Ok.... Forge away.... Into the unknown- for sure!!
But- I am focusing on me now. I wrote out the things I needed to address in our conversation. I have a tendency to forget or digress. It is better for me to write it out so I can focus on the task at hand. Scatter-brain much? Yes, I was dropped on my head as a baby. Ha! No joke..... by that I mean- don't make any jokes.
Writing down things to address in a convo with him ISN'T putting the focus on YOU.
Why not set 48-72 hours of no contact. Start there. If that's too much, 8 hours of no contact. Step back for just a bit. NO CONTACT. Push him from your mind when you become aware he's encroaching again.
I realize you will get the big test results today or tomorrow...but, what about preparing yourself for no contact after you get the results? Prepare yourself in whatever way you need to.
Step back in small steps if that's all you can do for now.
Love to you.
"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man
“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
Kids hate it there. Especially S17. The kids there are totally out of control and crazy, and mean. They wouldn't go there. Xh wouldn't even go there when he lived here. That's why I know he was desperate to get out by staying there.
I've been thinking about it. $ is very tight right now, so I am trying to think of something that is beneficial and cost effective. I will figure something out.
You are right, s. I did tell him that it is his problem and his choices have led to this. But my thinking, I suppose still does try to figure some things out. Dang. I have been here before, and need to remember what I've learned.
Mighty, I am going to be brutally honest here because you deserve nothing less.
Did you hear the words he said? "He cannot guarantee 100% that he wont go back with her."
That gives you hope and leaves him off the hook. How dare he? Why is that ok with you?
M, your kids are not little. They need to forge whatever relationship they do with him. Your job is to cause no harm to it. So, give him their schedule and then let them figure it out. You dont need to be involved.
I am worried about you, sweetie. We all care so much about you. You are so invested in what he says and does. That isnt healthy.
You have to leave him to figure his stuff out. I mean really and truly, M. He cannot do that with you involved. He just cant.
uR, actually, I feel like it is sucking the hope out if me. Like I need to run and take cover. It is totally contradictory to what he has been saying. I noticed things changed after obd (operation baby drop), and this comment opened my eyes- WIDE!
I don't even want to mess with that fire. We need to figure out a schedule, but whatever he decides to do is his problem.
I'm officially checking out.
S, if they go to bil or not, it does not matter to me. I was just responding to heather. I was trying to give the point of how un-close my kids are with them and how it's not a comfortable place for them and never has been.
Right now, I'm just laying everything out on the table. Taking a good look at the sitch- where it has gotten. This helps me assess. I'm pretty analytical in that sense. I have to put it in perspective. Title crazy as crazy. Then I can walk away knowing or having perspective as to what I am walking away from or detaching from. Otherwise I will continue to question and spin.
Lay it out. Take a look. Drop it like it's hot.
Done it before. Doing it again- just from a different place.
If your h cries the blues about the children staying over at the bill's...he's got another option...he can always rent a nice hotel room for the time he has them. It would be an adventure for the kids and he definitely would think about where he will visit w/them the next time around. LOL!
Your xh made the choice to walk away and the divorce has been final for a while. He should realize that he can't have it both ways, i.e., spending time in your home and sucking the life out of you and then leaving and living w/your bil. He's enjoying his freedom while your are the responsible parent. If he truly wants to spend time w/the children, HE will find a way to do so and also a place to do it.
Mighty, you are a fixer. There were two things that I found to be difficult for me and they were: 1, changing my patterns of being a fixer and 2) digging for more patience. Get that rubber band out, place it on your wrist and snap it each and every time you think about him or try to fix things for him.
Quite frankly, he's got to fix himself. When he walked out, he fired you as his wife, companion and lover. He needs to grow up on his own w/o your help. Remember...you were fired, therefore he's got to do the work himself.
Hang in there. You've got a lot of people in your corner. You might want to think about meeting up w/Heather. You owe it to yourself to get away for a bit, even if it's just for a short period of time.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I am so sorry to hear this. Now you know for sure and nothing has really changed because he's still going to be out there as a confused puppy. Let him go to figure things out.
Now, it is very important that you take care of YOU. Find a pillow and beat the stuffings out of it. Find something physical to do to help you relieve some of that stress and grief. You have to take care of yourself.
Shining is absolutely correct, you are them most important person right now and they are not. Don't worry about him because he's a grown man and yes, this is his mess to deal with. Now, you and your children will need to figure out how to move forward w/this news.
Again, I am very sorry to hear this news.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I'm ok. I want to rip my hair out. I stopped myself a couple inches short from punching a mirror. Duh. That should have been stupid. Stupid is as stupid does.
Collecting myself.
It's actually much easier to stick to the basics now. All the emo stuff is irrelevant. It has snapped me into get to business mode.
Yea, ripping hair out or punching mirrors = not good.
But you most certainly can beat the crap out of him...oh wait, that was in my head...wasnt supposed to come out of my mouth. My bad, kinda
M, I believe things happen as they should. I think this did. Not the 'being his baby' part. But the 'you finding out today' part. You needed this to push you forward.
Business mode is good. But so is processing this when you are able to. Cant sweep the feelings under the rug. They just come back to bite you later on.
Take care of you right now, Mighty. You matter a great deal.
Dont do anything you dont have to do. Go in the car and scream if you need to. Find your center. And keep repeating this... "I will be ok because I am Mighty."
I know you will be, without one single doubt. I know that you will do what you need to do.
We are all here, M, holding you up, Can you feel it?
Dang - not the answer we were all hoping for. But at least now you have clarity and closure on that part of it.
I know finances are tight, and I'm the original no-debt frugal tightwad, but - if EVER there was a time to pull out the charge card and book a weekend away for you and a girlfriend (or you and the kids) this is IT. Maybe even just drive to spend the weekend at a friend's? Something. (Ok, from what I see on the news, driving - or even walking - may not be advisable back there right now. Maybe put on your crampons and go for a walk??lol).
At least go out for margaritas with your best girlfriend, or book a massage.
I haven't caught up with your entire thread as I'm usually not over here. But *something* pulled me here today, and I have to believe your news is it.
I can't compare our sitches line for line; I know they're completely different. But I remember the raw emotions of how I felt when my H came back home from an A ... with a pregnant XOW. I remember how crippled I felt when he told me that I might be carrying his first child but XOW was just two months behind. I remember how excruciating it was, waiting for the DNA results. And I remember the crushing blow of finding out it - she - was his.
I just wanted to tell you my heart is hurting right beside you today. And I wanted to drop a wish for peace and comfort for you.
Sending you love, prayers and warm, positive thoughts.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Whoa, train! Seriously? How'd I miss that? And we are the same age. Hmmm, for me- I was trying to get preg- as that's why he got reversal- but she did instead. I'm not going to dwell on that, I just see that our stitches could have been QUITE more similar.
Thanks for dropping in. It's funny how we get that pull to check something new out, but not sure why. I feel an instant connection. I'm sorry to hear that for you. I will have to check you out. Bc I don't know what I'm doing.
Thanks k & uR. I am looking into a trip w kids in feb, but maybe a quick one for me in the meantime.
And you know, uR, I have to agree with you. I have found that things have happened at specific times for a reason. I haven't figured it all out, prob never will, but there are definite times when it is obvious to me. I can feel it. And I had the same thought as you tonight.
In fact, this morning, I had written down my thoughts of what I wanted to discuss. Didn't even matter anymore. I cut to the chase, was succinct, and to the point. I think he was shocked. I think it was a wake up call. He was like, "I've got to figure things out." He seemed.... Don't know how to explain it. Maybe it was a kick iN the pants- maybe not. I didn't pull any punches. But, he knows where I stand, regardless. And I can't waiver.
Will be back to offer more, Mighty. But THAT A was in 2005/06, and I was here under a different name. I came back last year but couldn't remember my password. And my username was linked to an outdated email address. Just saying all my emotions attached to that period of my life with H won't be available here.
But I'm keeping up with you now. And I'll be going back through your story.
I'm pulling for you, girl.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I am so sorry, Mighty. Have been following your sitch for inspiration and strength to help bolster me up. I think you mentioned that you feel things happen at certain times, just when you have gathered enough strength to deal with them, one by one. I feel the same way...as things have transpired, I've always stopped and thought 'there is no way I could have handled this X weeks/months ago -- not before today.' Somehow we always seem to have just enough to make it over the next hurdle. You'll make it over this one too. Now at least you can start to put things in order in your mind, and step back a bit, because it is clear he has quite a ways to go before HE can put things in order in HIS mind. By that time, you'll have clarity about what you really want, and as UR always says, you will be able to make decisions from a place of strength (and heck, you've already been there, so you already know what you need to do to get back there). Prayers for you today, Mighty. Stay strong.
Me 53, XH 57 M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids BD June '13 H moved out July '13 Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14 H filed for D Nov. '14 D March '15
Hey Mighty -- I just read this recently, can't remember where, but I thought of you: "When God pushes you to the edge, trust in Him fully, because only two things can happen: either He will catch you when you fall, or he will teach you how to fly!"
Me 53, XH 57 M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids BD June '13 H moved out July '13 Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14 H filed for D Nov. '14 D March '15
I think what I hear is that he's not done baking yet. He's dealing with a new child, his older children and figuring out what he's done to make such a mess.
And here you are, trying to figure out if you're going to talk to him or not.
That's a lot to deal with. As evidenced by the sweats, right? Been a long time since I've had that level of emotion, but I remember hating it.
It also seems to me that he is remembering how she was "there for him" and I read that he is not ready to be on his own. He noticed the lighthouse, even if it was the one that causes him pain. A ship in the storm and all that...
So what's the action? Detach. Be about business. Figure out what you want and whether or not it's attainable.
There's no timeline, except what works for you. You'll know when you have had enough. And when that time comes, you will know what action to take and will not waiver.
Job's right - you're a fixer. But as a realist, you have to see that some things you cannot fix. He'll have to fix himself, else he won't be able to be around you. He has a way to go still.
Be you. Look out for you and your kids. Deal with the rest and put it to rest. i.e. the betrayal, the baby, etc. That's what the space is for. Peace is over rated, but it's all up to you at this point. What you decide needs to be right for you. Nobody else. The rest will fall into place as it should. You need to trust that.
Cheers,
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Oh Mighty I was hoping it wouldn't be his- but now you know what you're dealing with. I agree with many others here about learning or experiencing things at the right time. Just as you are about to break, something happens and it gives you back your power. You can step off of that ride now and take care of you for awhile.
Hope you get to take those few days away soon- you need and deserve it for sure!!!
Me 41 H 40 M 20 T 23 S 19,16, 8 D 13 BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015 Life is about daring greatly, about being in the arena- Brene Brown
So sorry Mighty. I know you were hoping for a different outcome.
I too am a fixer. I was told once by a IC that I made the men in my life my project. I know it's because growing up I became a parent child because my Mother was an alcoholic and my Dad had a bad temper and couldn't cope. I felt responsible for everyone.
I have had to learn to be a friend to myself. To let others suffer the consequences of their own actions. Otherwise if we rescue them all the time we are not allowing them to grow and learn. I believe life brings the same things to us until we learn the lesson and change our behavior.
If you grow and move forward to becoming the best you. H will either catch up at some point or get left behind still riding his same old merry go round.
Me 52 H 44 T9 M 5 BD 12/11 H split 8/12 OW moved in 12/12 OW gone for good 6/14 We get closer again 9/14 SD 13 Me 4 Grown
Accept what is...let go of what was and have faith in what will be.
Mighty - most of here are fixers. There are good reasons why this is so!
I still have to stop myself trying to fix things between my xh and our adult children. With other people I am getting much better.
Nothing you can do will fix him, but cake eating is not healthy for either of you. He may well go back to blaming you. Do not take this personally as it is mostly self protective projection on his part.
If he wants to see the children he needs to make the arrangements. Only you can decide if he is welcome in your home or not. But, absolutely no coming and going without a clear arrangement.
And Job is right, if they come back too soon they almost always run again at some point.
I very am sorry the child is his, but there was always the possibility it could be. I wouldn't like to have a relationship with someone who doubted the paternity of his child. Just sayin'.
Woke up doing ok. Trying to stay focused and driven. It can be difficult with people around!
Was told this morning:
I saw a picture of the baby. HWW must have had a professional photographer come in and take pictures in the house. She had a big stupid thing on her head, all high maintenance. She looks like you h.
C'mon! Why????! I don't need the visual!
It's ok. Have to regroup, but I know these things are going to happen- forever. So I just need to find a way to be ok with it. I certainly hope it is not happening to my kids.
Was the person that said that someone from work? Is this a friend or a one-off weirdo with no sense of tact....
People sometimes just need to stfu. Unfortunately, that's not in your control. Which means it's up to you to figure out how to protect yourself.
It goes along with the strategy of not watching xh and ow, so you don't have the added trash in your memory to clean up later....Take steps so you don't even give those comments a chance to be heard.
Set boundaries. It won't work perfectly 100% of the time. But people learn what they can and can not say to you when you set those limits.
I had to do this with my SD20. I thought I wanted to know details. I learned that knowing that stuff only kept my attention where it didn't belong, and it hurt.
I had to tell her to please not tell me things about H anymore. She forgot a couple of times, but that was all it took.
Mighty, you are so strong, but no one could be in your shoes without being a bit fragile. Protect that beautiful heart.
Interrupt those people as soon as you know the topic.
Don't let your curiosity get the best of you.
Negative gossip is seductive. Don't let their disparaging comments about xh and ow pull you into that negative drama. That's all that comment was this morning. Drama.
It does nothing for you. Only against you.
Literally....put your hand up like a "stop" hand when you hear the convo turn that direction. Say to them, "I'm going to have to ask you to stop."
You don't even need to apologize for it, or explain it. If you feel you want to, you could say, "I am sure you can understand that information does not serve me well. Can we talk about something else?"
or..."As you know, this is a very difficult situation for me. Respectfully, I have to ask you to please keep that type of information to yourself."
Even if you have engaged in that type of thing in the past, you GET TO change the rules whenever you want.
"Friend-person, I know I have talked about this stuff with you in the past. However, I have learned that it is holding me back from some much needed healing. I can no longer have these conversations about (xyz). Thank you for understanding."
Chances are, the person will respect that. They will probably feel somewhat embarrassed. And that isn't your responsibility if they do. Because YOUR feelings are what matter.
Thanks s. You are right. And I am finding that I don't want to know anything. I think I was in shock when she said that. Dumbfounded. It happens all the time. But this.... About the baby. I stared blank for a second then said, "don't tell me that."
The end of that.
So I will think happy thoughts. Like my pb&j sandwich for lunch.... Or something.
It isn't something that I could just decide to do then, boom, it's done. Boundary set.
It was a process for me. To identify what I was and wasn't willing to let in. To learn the triggers. To recognize when things are heading that direction BEFORE I'm shocked.
Please do some serious GAL's and keep repeating until you feel solid and focused.
FOCUS on you and your kids!
Detach as much as you possibly can.
Post often as needed. Do not smack the IT of your XH:)
When you do speak to him, keep it about your kids ONLY, ignore anything else he says , especially about OW or new baby or his feelings!
Me 43 ring off Oct 2014 (my ring back on Feb 2015) H 51 (ring off 7/2013) M 2007 T 1996 S 14 July 2013- H told me he was unhappy.....said he is staying for Son Feb 18 2014 Found out about OW
It was so counterintuitive for me to not let myself feed into the energy, and set that boundary to not hear things about him. I have always been a need-to-know-everything kinda gal. So when people here told me to step away from that stuff, I was absolutely convinced that I was different, and that my sitch was different, and I was ok hearing it. Even worse...that I absolutely needed to know certain things.
I was lying to myself.
Eventually, the heartbreak pain became greater than the need to know.
The first time I asserted that boundary, I didn't do it because I wanted to. I did it because nothing I was doing was working. And I finally listened to what people here said to do, knowing I really didn't believe in it. I did it anyway.
Afterward, I felt this incredible sense of... Lack of better word... Pride. I was proud of myself for stating what I needed. It felt good to honor myself. It was a sense of confidence inside, that I am in control of what I let in.
Having that sense of control over ME...was amazing. Because it is REAL. We mistakenly believe we control outside stuff. We eventually learn we really do not.
Your confidence will soar once you begin honoring yourself and your boundaries, Mighty. THAT will pull you out of some of this funk like nothing else.
(uR- you were right- you guys are picking me up through this. Whew. That's a lot of work. I'm a tiny girl, but loads of baggage!)
Live, this>>
Quote:
When God pushes you to the edge, trust in Him fully, because only two things can happen: either He will catch you when you fall, or he will teach you how to fly!"
LOVE IT!
S- you are right! I don't want to know anything anymore. I think you and I had the same mindset at times. I was thinking about it this morning after I heard that comment. And I was like, why would I want to hear about that? (then read your post and was so like, word.) I just have to remove myself from this. I have to live my life. MY LIFE. That isn't my life. It was a disruption in my life.... but it's not my friggin life. And yes, I thought I needed to piece everything together. But, at what end will it stop? And how are present situations piecing anything? They aren't!
Here is what I discovered today... after picking up the pieces of my own thoughts I've had, and collectively placed them together. And I had a bit of an eye opening experience.
I have never had any closure or ending with my r with xh. I have always felt like his wife. And when I heard things, it just felt like it was just an on-going affair. Yes, started that way, but in my eyes, our r never properly ended. I have, even to this day, still felt like his wife. Perhaps because there was never a conversation about ending our marriage (outside of bomb), but it was just a bit of a separation, then we'd talk. The talk never happened... and yadda, yadda.... you know the rest.
However, because I was standing and never really left that, until I was hit with a nuke... I was left in a state of disbelief. Because of that, I never really accepted it for what it was. Our marriage- over. xh and hww- in a r. It seemed more to me, a series of unfortunate events that had to be worked out. And I mean, when I would say, "I can't believe it." I truly meant, I couldn't believe it.
So. Now. I have to accept that I am, in fact, divorced. I have been for 5 months now. And, I think just when it was slowly start to settle, only three months after, is when xh told me he made the biggest mistake of his life. So, it never really settled. It was more like, I KNEW IT! See, it wasn't real! But the reality is... it happened. They were in a r. I am divorced. It has never sunk in. That's what keeps me spinning. That's what has gotten me hung up with hww. Because I felt like she thought it was real. And she needed to know it wasn't. Physically it was. And that is that. Was he happy... I really don't think so. But he was there. He did divorce me. Mistake or not. It happened.
Now, I need to accept this. This is me now. I need to come to this understanding. From that I can heal. I can grow. I can learn.
I need to separate myself from the r I had with xh. It is no longer there. Is there a connection? Sure. But it's not that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Digression.
d13 broke a bone in her foot. xh and I were texting about it while I was at the hospital getting xrays. Then after I was heading home and he texted me that he was working late with jimbo. (I was wondering why he was telling me this, other than he is picking up d13 after her game- she can't play). Then texted me again with specifics, he was headed to the downtown office with jimbo and bozo for work in the x building. First off, I have no idea what the x building is (I gave it a different name), nor do I have any idea why he was giving me detailed information about where he was going and with whom.
Whatever- not even going to think about it. Just kind of laughed. Guess hes used to reporting to someone. Alone time will do him well.... I hope!
Sh*t, Mighty. I've been hoping that it wasn't his. I guess I was hoping he'd get slapped with the truth.
It looks like you're working through the news in a positive way.
You've got a great life ahead of you, Mighty.
M:54, H:55 T:33, M:27 12/13 BD: EA 01/14 BD: PA, H leaves 03/14 H & OW break up 05/14 H says he will file for D 08/14 H initiates D 09/14 H wants to R 12/14 Still bungling our way through R
Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes. Don't resist them; that only creates sorrow. Let reality be reality. Let things flow naturally forward in whatever way they like.” Lao Tzu
You sound better, my friend. I'm so glad. You know you will still have bad moments, but, hopefully they will be shorter and less intense.
I agree that you didnt have closure. I also completely agree that you have to accept what is. Acceptance to me, is the golden ring.
It allows you to move forward and get to the good parts. The part where you know that nothing is permanent, everything changes. Where you can decide what you want and be who you are.
Acceptance allows us to move forward in a healthy way. We might want for things to be different in the future, but in the present moment we need to accept things as they are. That’s the way you can make your life flow smoothly, instead of roughly. To me acceptance is like protecting yourself with your own shield.
It allows you to move forward and get to the good parts. The part where you know that nothing is permanent, everything changes. Where you can decide what you want and be who you are.
This!
And remember, while this seems really rotten right now, you have no idea what direction your life is going to take in the future. Yesterday I had a blast rehearsing with my punk band, this morning my drop-dead-gorgeous boyfriend brought me coffee. I sure couldn't have foreseen this when my marriage was collapsing.
Mighty....I so understand what you mean about closure. A MLC split is different than a WAS. I was invested in my marriage and I tried very hard to make it work. I was in shock when we actually separated and thought at some point he will come to his senses. I too felt like I was still a wife. We are not yet divorced but that didn't stop my H. from moving from his AP to a new GF.
We had coffee Jan 1 and for the first time I did feel closeure. My H is as confused as yours. He still has feelings for me and is attracted to me but is curious and wants to date. He imploded the only family his 13 yr old daughter ever had but that doesn't matter. He fought to have her full time and leaves her sitting upstairs ever night until 7 or 8 pm waiting for company and attention. Oh and maybe dinner? He goes to to work and stays out at least twice a week until 10pm leaving her home alone. He left the dogs home for 48 hrs in the house while he went skiing.
MLC = narrisstic behavior. Many of us here are patient, loving people wanting to help our spouses get well and return home. We owe it to ourselves and our children to teach them what a healthy relationship is, what boundaries are and how to except only what serves us.
Distance is your friend. It helps when the contact is less. I haven't spoken to my H. Since our talk. I dropped the rope. I am happier.
Me 52 H 44 T9 M 5 BD 12/11 H split 8/12 OW moved in 12/12 OW gone for good 6/14 We get closer again 9/14 SD 13 Me 4 Grown
Accept what is...let go of what was and have faith in what will be.
Mighty - you are so right on the lack of closure. And the ones that periodically 'try' (used in the very loosest sense) to come back actually contribute to the problems we face.
These 'touch and goes' are painful and disruptive. We tend to believe them because our former partners seem normal when they say those things - and frankly we often want to hear them.
And UR is right - acceptance is the golden ring. Being who we want to be.
On a lighter note I was hit on twice in the last week (not just my imagination) by guys 20 years younger than me!! It made me laugh all the way home!
Mighty, The MLC split is very different from a normal split. There is no rhyme or reason as to why they walk because they had good marriages. Every marriage has ups and downs and no marriage will always be fun and exciting like the days leading up to it. In other words, the honeymoon phase slowly disappears and reality sets in w/bills, work, home life and children. In many marriages, if there are problems, they can be worked out, however, the MLCer doesn't think rationally and doesn't want to work things out, but rather destroy everything and move on to the next phase of seeking a companion and start over. They can't think further than one step in front of them. It's the word "new" that calls them away from what they had. Hence, very few, if any, of us get "closure". It boggles my mind each and every time I hear of someone going off the rails into MLC land.
Yes, the touch and goes are painful because we think that they are actually waking up and wanting to reconcile or try to come back home. However, they are only moments of clarity and to see if we are still right where they left us. We begin to warm up again and want to see and hear the "normal" spouses and our hopes raise just a bit and then BAM! they are back in the tunnel again. The best way to deal w/the mlcer is to put some distance between you. You can lovingly detach and go on w/your life.
Accepting that you are divorced and what it entails takes some time getting use to. You've not had the time to really explore what it means because your h and his drama have been all over your side of the street. It's time to sweep his drama back across the street and allow yourself the time to mourn and move forward w/your life. If he ever wakes up and does the actual hard work of fixing himself and his situation, then I would allow him one step over on your side of the street. He's got to prove to you he's ready to come back and be the mature man, husband and father and not some wimp who can't make up his mind and runs to you all of the time w/his drama. Quite frankly, he looks to you as his "mother" to fix things, give him advice and yes, encourage him to do the right things. "Mom", step back, allow your man child to grow up and take on the responsibilities of life.
Mighty, you will feel so much better if you were to put some distance between you. When your friends and family start to talk about h and his mess, shut them down. You don't need to hear this stuff. It only makes things worse for you. I know you love him and would like for him to return, but it's going to be a long time before that happens, if ever. It's time to start thinking like a single, independent woman who has some great kids and a life that's worth living. Whatever happens, you are going to be just fine.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I think that it is natural to get hopeful when you see gimmers of the old H. It's learning to be self protective once you realize it's only temporary.
I agree with Beatrice and Job. MLC is so different from a WAS. My marriage was going a long like most with no deal breaking issues. It was like a switch went off in my H. One day and he started his depression and withdrawal. I was worried about him I had no idea our marriage was entering its last year.
I think it's the shock and disbelief that makes it so much harder to accept the loss. A WAS is leaving after a period of problems in the M. Much like a long time illness eventually causing death. A MLC is like someone seemily healthy suddenly dying.
Detaching lovingly is the only way. The source of your pain is H. Let him deal with the mess he's made and give yourself space to heal
Me 52 H 44 T9 M 5 BD 12/11 H split 8/12 OW moved in 12/12 OW gone for good 6/14 We get closer again 9/14 SD 13 Me 4 Grown
Accept what is...let go of what was and have faith in what will be.
Mighty, I'm finally catching up again on things and I have to say you are regaining your strength, I can hear it.
You want to help him through all this stuff to guide him back to you... But that's not how this works. Your detachment is crucial to your well-being and to remind you that YOU should be your only focus. He is neck deep in his own chaos and you can't help him wade through. You just can't. One of the hardest parts in all of this is proverbially watching someone drown in their own mess while you're standing on the deck. He gas to save himself. He has to find his own tools. And you have to get out of the way.
You guys are are right. I need to go back to the tools I used before when I detached. I am finding it easier this time around. I have gone out of my way not to look out the window (I can see his truck- or see it's gone) right out my living room, among other windows. Plus I think things like I did before: if he wants me, he knows where to find me. I want him all in or all out. He said he was going for what he wants- well that had yet to be determined. I am stepping out of the way. He has lots of work to do- and it's on him. I know I will be fine without him.
He needs to man-up. I want someone who wants me, supports me, and is there for me. Those cannot be wavering. I don't want him as long as he is twisted up in the sitch w HWW. No way- no how. No part of that. It's going to be awhile- if ever.
Right now I know I need to work through the anger. I am fine MOST part of the day. I do, however, have times when the anger waves over me. It is then that I realize it's depth. The good thing is that it's controlled. It happens when I am alone. When I have a moment. It is never directed elsewhere. I know what makes me angry. I can pinpoint it. And know exactly where I am directing it in my thoughts. It does not trickle elsewhere.
But, like I said, it's deep. I don't know what to do about it. It is so frustrating it brings me to tears. Searing anger and tears. I think the tears are bc of the frustration of not knowing what to do with the anger, and because of it's depth.
It does not consume me. The whole doesn't consume me as it once did. Sometimes I just have a dull sick feeling, other times I am perfectly fine.
Upward and onward. One foot in front of the other.
Read an article on cake-eating this morning. Very helpful.
Thanks guys.
At ortho dr now w d13. Hope she's not out for the season! Yikes!
I hope you and your daughter get good news and that she's okay and will be up and ready to go back playing before too long.
Get your pink tool box out and utilize the DB tools that you have to help you through this rough patch.
Hang in there!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I just spent two days reading through your threads, from Day One. Since you have a sense of humor, I trust you'll take this in the way it's intended: "Good LORD, Honey-Child! Talk about a freakin' NAIL-BITER over here! I was on the edge of my seat; I didn't stop reading until 2:30 this morning ... and then put S8 on "independent work" for his (home)school today just so I could finish.
I don't have to tell you this: I've been here twice now (once in 2005/06, which was the A that resulted in XOW's baby, and then again last year because H and I didn't "do" piecing correctly after the first time), and you've - hands-down - had some of the best advice I've seen on these boards. Incredible support for an incredible - (fittingly) mighty - powerhouse! I'm inspired.
Though it took me two days to read through your threads, I feel it could take me a week to write what I've thought of writing as I read. I think part of the reason it was such a nail-biter and had me so enthralled is because, due to my experiences, I felt like I was right there with you ... or right back there at that time in my life. Thankfully, and I hope it's a little consolation for you, I'm almost nine years past the "OW's pregnant" BD, and I am a-okay. I'll never forget my feelings, which is why I think I found my way here, to your story, albeit a little late. It still hurts. But it doesn't sting or slice the way it did.
I can write about my experiences later and as you have questions (if you have any).
Meanwhile, ***DISCLAIMER***: I feel a little awkward jumping in and giving any observations this far into the game. Plus, I have no experience with MLC, so keep that in mind. I'm sure if I say something wrong, your awesome regulars will step in and politely correct me. That's something else I learned while reading over here in MLC Land: You guys are freaking NICE and so supportive! Geez ... unlike the stiff 2x4s I got against my noggin over in Infidelity! (If you're reading, Starsky, I'm only KIDDING! You're my BFF for LIFE, brah!)
(And when it comes to making short stories long, Mighty, you've met your match, mmkay? ) I hope I don't lock your thread, because that wouldn't be a very neighborly thing to do on my first "real" visit ...
Anyway, with all those disclaimers out of the way, I do feel I maybe have the benefit of having digested your entire journey - start 'til now - in just a few hours. So the "you" that was "you" before H started showing signs of peeking/crawling out of his tunnel is still really, really fresh in my mind. And I can tell that his new "interest" started sending you spinning, almost from the jump. (Ahem, *do not think* I'm 2x4ing you for that because - boy! - do I understand! I've lived it. Twice.) But I think you've been given AMAZING advice to pullllllll on those reins a little bit right now. Slow 'er down - simmer a bit - and try to pull yourself back to center, to a place with NO expectations of H. Expectations lead to disappointments, even when a situation isn't THAT dire.
Your H started showing interest in you around the time that ol' Stella had gone and gotten her groove back. Honey, whoever said it is right: hww couldn't shine your shoes! You're amazing! You're sharp. You're a hard worker. You're put-together. You have A LOT more - ahem - experience . You're *hil.a.riousssss (like, I've literally LOL'd sooo many times reading your posts). And ATTRACTIVE! You're the total package, baby! And all that radiates from every post you've written, so do us all a favor and don't try to deny it.
HopefulStill (another one of my faves, but he's hardly here anymore) once encouraged me to back completely out of my wayward H's life: "Don't meet ANY of his needs," he said. And that was hard. No offers of dinner. No words of affirmation. No physical touch. HS was quoting at least one expert's philosophy that if the LBS backs out of the way, s/he then forces the OW/OM to meet all the WAS's needs. And that's when that person's warts start showing. It takes the crazy off of YOU and gives the OW the chance to start showing her warts and fangs. (If you're spinning, you really don't want H to see that because it puts the crazy back on YOU instead of letting him see it from the person who's REALLY crazy. See what I mean?)
I see that that's precisely what happened in your H's case: you backed out (and got your groove back, giving H glimpses of the hawt, FABULOUS, movin'-on Mighty any time you were around him), and he was left with *just* OW. In all her crazy glory. And - lo and behold - he began to see that maybe things with Mighty weren't so bad, after all! (Duh.)
Fast-forward to the birth of baby: Your H is out-of-his-mind confused. I don't want to sound like I'm defending him (or my H when he was in that same place), but can you IMAGINE how freaking TWISTED they feel? I'd usually encourage you to stay out of H's head. But really consider stewing on that for a minute because it MIGHT help you to muster-up some compassion (yuck) for how conflicted he feels right now - which will in turn (and most importantly) help YOU with some perspective. Let me interject a little of my story here, just to provide some background:
H left me in September 2005, when I was about two months pregnant with our son, now almost 9. (Ellie may not remember, but she was the first to tell me on these boards that my H was cheating; she just KNEW it. Turns out: she was right. SHOCKING, right? (:::insert smiling eyeroll here:::) ) Anyway, I didn't know he was cheating at the time. He just left. And he acted like he was possessed by demons. MEAN as all get out! It was very frightening. Anyway, he was gone until January 2006 (just four, little months), when he came home and told me OW was pregnant ... and he said pretty much everything your H has said to you. My H, granted, was "all in" from the moment he came back. (But listen to this important part: THAT is where we started to go wrong ... and why I ended up back here last year, 8 years later; but I'll get into that another day if you want.)
I became TOO supportive of my H during the remaining months of my (and XOW's) pregnancies. I was SO flippin' mad at her. AND at my H. But, like you, I had spent a great deal of time being mad at him ... and knew I'd spend probably YEARS being mad at him. So I didn't make excuses for using a little of my time being mad at her, too. She would.not.stop contacting my H while he was in our home, despite him sending her a NC letter. She called/messaged about doctor's appointments ... asking H to go hear the baby's heartbeat with her ... asking if H wanted to be in the room when she was delivering ... asking him to come back to their apartment to reach glasses over the refrigerator because she was just too short to reach them. (Gag.) With my H's permission, I (finally) broke my silence with her and wrote her a letter of my own, telling her that I stood beside my H no matter what he decided where she and her baby were concerned. And if he wanted to be in the doctor's appointments and labor/delivery room, I would stand beside him. Like, literally. Right beside him in the room. (Obviously she would never allow that ... which was precisely the point of writing it ...)
She left him alone from that point forward; she had all his information to be in touch when the baby was born.
And that's when this Train started charging, full-steam ahead. XOW already had two kids from a previous M, and she only had partial custody of them. So I encouraged H to go after joint custody of XOW's baby. To say I "encouraged" really means I "pushed," almost forced. In a controlling sort of way, because that - at the time - was my idea of "support" for H. Ummmmm ... notsomuch. I wanted him to see I had his back. He felt like I was pushing him to do something he didn't want to do. But he never told me that because he was walking on eggshells having just come home with a pregnant XOW. I pushed and pushed.
We went to a L together, who is a family friend. XOW's baby was 3 months old at the time. H was paying *a lot* of child support (almost as much as I was receiving for my oldest two girls from a previous M, combined). That HURT. Our L told us we'd need to spend some time with the baby if we were wanting to get more than standard visitation. So, guess what? I packed up my 5-month-old son, stuck out my chest and went with H to OW's apartment, meeting her for the very first time face-to-face (except for the time, you know, I walked in on them boinking, thereby busting their A. But she pulled the covers over her face like the cowardly hobag she was, so that's not technically considered face-to-face, eh?). Ugh. I handed H our son. And I reached my arms out to XOW, who was holding her baby, and she handed me H's daughter. It was a surreal moment; one I'll never forget. H held her but felt no connection. I played with her.
Fast-forward to December 2006. XOW's baby was 5 months old. Custody mediation was set to begin in one week from Christmas. Except my "charging" came to a sudden stop when my daddy died in a trucking accident four days before the first mediation session was scheduled.
I can't tell you what happened to me at that moment. I really HAD felt - up until that moment - that our family would provide more stability (financially, psychologically, etc.) for H's baby. I had grown to WANT her in my life ... because she was my H's child, after all. I harbored no ill-feelings toward the baby. I looked at her as a mirror of ME, strangely: She and I were the two hardest-hit victims in the fiasco. We lost the most. And my heart learned to go out to her, even considering the circumstances.
But when my dad died? It suddenly hit me that I had been pushing. And that this wasn't my baby. And it wasn't my mess. And it wasn't my destiny. And it wasn't my life. Simply put: She wasn't my family. In fact, she was made *in spite of me*. That didn't mean I needed to DISlike her. But it didn't mean I needed to push to have her in my life, either. So I told H: "I know what family means now. You choose what you want to do. She's your daughter."
And he chose to pay child support but to physically stay out of her life. (He chose this because of watching my XH - my older girls' dad - pop in and out of their lives since they were little; H and I had discussed over the years that it would be better - and more admirable - of a dad to just stay completely "out" if he couldn't stay completely "in.") So, he paid child support - which crippled our family - for seven years. And when we found out XOW had married and had another child, we were in touch with her. And to make a long story shorter, she told H that her H had been talking about adopting their daughter, which meant my H could relinquish his paternal rights to OW's D7.
My H stays pretty quiet about it, but he opened up to me this year (after coming home from A2 with an OW who, thank God, had her frickin' tubes tied ... thank God for small favors, right?!?). I never knew it, but he is still absolutely tormented by guilt and shame, especially now that he and I share D3. He feels guilt about his D8. He feels guilt about feeling guilty because of what it did to me and his family. Though where you and I, as LBSs, are/were is the PITS, it really, truly ends up being "nothing" compared to the hell they walk daily. I can say that now, almost nine years later. I wouldn't expect you to be near there right now. But suffice it to say, your H is probably absolutely tortured right now by his decisions and the trail of destruction he has caused *ALL AROUND*. And he is in the thick of it right now, so he has no clarity and no direction.
This is just me being honest: Having not one but TWO women in his ear about it right now is NOT going to help him gain any clarity. And trust me: hww is nagging her face off. Be the opposite, Mighty. As Wonka once told me: Be the OW to the XOW. Think about that for a minute.
I don't know if any of that helps. (If you're even still awake after reading it all.) But I hope SOMETHING about it resonates with you.
Sometimes, Mighty, I think some of these things are going to play out the way they're going to play out, no matter WHAT we do. Sure, our behavior can absolutely influence things. (If you'd go all Rambo on your H, for instance, that kind of crazy can make even hhw's brand of crazy look normal, but obviously you're not gonna do that; I'm just stating that as an example.) Other times, I FIRMLY believe in the advice that always-graceful Wonka once gave me: Sometimes INaction IS an action."
Not many people I know could thread the needle of having nerves of steel and a heart of gold like you have, Mighty. I know good-and-damn-well how deep you're having to reach right now. I *know*. And it ain't over.
But know it *is* able to be overcome.
Right now, let these days and weeks be about Mighty. 'Cause the good Lord knows it's been about everybody else for far too long.
[[[**Train: picking up a pom-pom to join the Mighty Cheerleading Squad.**]]
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
(Ellie may not remember, but she was the first to tell me on these boards that my H was cheating; she just KNEW it. Turns out: she was right. SHOCKING, right? (:::insert smiling eyeroll here:::) )
Lol - Train, I think I've told quite a few people that. I always hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I remember when I was a newbie here, SO certain that MY husband wasn't having an affair - I'm still thankful to whoever it was who set me straight on that.
Yep, Ellie. I've always given you the credit for opening my eyeballs. Your "prediction" didn't stand out there alone for long. My discovery quickly followed. But I remember saying to you: "I mean, MAYBE. But I just can't see it! He's not like that!"
What a naive dumba$s I was. I have been the bearer of bad news around here lately, too. I get the same response I gave you. And I just shake my head. But I also feel sad. Most of us who've been around a while know what we know for a reason.
You were a godsend then. Still are.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Hey job. D13's toe is broken in several places. But, they told her to tape 'er up, and she's all good to go! OK.
TRAIN! So... you heard me thinking of you today. I wanted to reach out to you, but wasn't sure where to start. And... still... you came chug, chug, chuggin' right on in!
That.
Meant.
The World.
Woosh. That just too me by storm! First, you gave me the boost of a lifetime! I am so appreciative that you took the time to read my crazy @ss threads! And I seriously thought, I mean seriously, that I had the easiest sitch. Which is why I didn't post for months. I was like, oh man, I feel for some of these people. I know my sitch isn't that bad.
Well... needless to say... I have been touched by an angel... again this year.
Your story is incredibly helpful. A lot of what you say resonates with me, very deeply.
You are right that I need to let xh do this. I am pretty sure that he has a strong bond with this baby. And the guilt- yeah, totally, you are right. I know he is struggling. I am trying to be compassionate and supportive. I let him know that I think it is the right thing for him to be there for this baby in the capacity he wants to be. I know he struggles with trying to figure out how he got here. He didn't want any more kids, but wouldn't turn his back on her.
And yes, I feel for this little girl. Thinking about the sitch at this point can be difficult. I can think about the future better than the present, if that makes sense. However, the future is a big unknown.
I did realize that I was becoming a crazy person. Boy, was I spinning! Once I truly realized the extent of it, I stepped right back. It took me a minute to communicate this to xh, but now, I feel better. I feel more in control.
I am trying to be supportive from a distance. In the sense of him making decisions. He has to make his own. And your are right with the amount of turmoil he is feeling. He feels really guilty about what he brought this girl into. I knew he was struggling the other day. He texted me good morning (which he still usually does and good night). I just responded something along the lines of, you have a new blessing in your life. No need for guilt. You have lots of good memories to look forward to . The next part of your life will be full of rewards.
I did this bc I know he is running on guilt. He knows I stepped out of the sitch. I have set boundaries and never even discuss hww or the baby anymore. I set what I expect as far as the kids and if he makes a commitment with the kids, he needs to honor it and not change it bc hww has made plans and he needs to run to the baby. He needs to figure it out. I am not concerned with the schedule he has with her or if he comes and goes as he pleases there, I just want to know what is going on with my kids. But, I also want him to know that I support him being a dad the baby, and I wouldn't expect less.
I feel pretty comfortable with this and am regaining confidence.
Your story is so amazing, Train. It is so helpful. I am so sorry that you find yourself here again. I am really rooting for you. You, my dear, have been through it! Geesh! You are incredibly strong and an inspiration.
I have been so blessed by the support and advice I have received here.
Oh, and I am so flattered that you find me funny. I love to laugh... its my fave. But I feel like for the last year I haven't been funny. That makes me sad bc laughing and joking is so me. Losing that is what makes me feel really lost. Sounds weird, probably. But, maybe there is a little of me still there.
Now, with all that said, while typing, xh texted me and asked if it was ok if he came to see the kids after he works out. He gets it. He knows I'm not messing around, bc he never texts and asks that. S17 has been sick and with d13's foot, I think he just wants to stop and say good night. I don't mind that he stops, just glad he texted. But I told him to go to the front door (which we don't really use) so he can go straight upstairs (where the kids rooms are). That will tell him something.
I am long-winded. I should have fingers of steel by now.
Oh, and Ellie confirmed to me, straight away, that the a had been going on for awhile. She was right about that. She should be a detective. All she needs to do is read a post... she knows what's up.
. Sending hugs and prayers, and positive everything your way, my dear friend. 
)
. You're *hil.a.riousssss (like, I've literally LOL'd sooo many times reading your posts). And ATTRACTIVE! You're the total package, baby! And all that radiates from every post you've written, so do us all a favor and don't try to deny it.