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Mozza 1 - 2009 near-separation, search for explanations.
Mozza 2 - OM confirmed through kids on Halloween, refocus on me rather than blaming W.
Mozza 3 - OM confirmed by W in email, strollergate, W has problems at work, unexpected blind date.
Mozza 4 - Lunch with W went well, reflections on being dumped, kids and OM
Mozza 5 - W warms up but OM set to move in in January, W's birthday email
Mozza 6 - To be nice or not to be, two trips make me feel better, office party video
Mozza 7 - Turning down lunch invite, telling W I need to move on, W emails about D

My story
After 9.5 years together, my W announced in early September 2014 that she wanted a separation. A week of pleading and begging didn't change a thing. She said she wanted to be free, alone, find her true self, that I was criticizing her too much, that we're incompatible, that she was unhappy and no longer in love with me and she didn't want to live with half-emotions. She had told me before of some of those complaints and that she was miserable. We had not yet addressed everything, we would fight more than average, and I wasn't changing fast enough, so she was growing hopeless that things would improve.

A week after BD, she moved out. A month and a half later, she confirmed my suspicions that she was with a coworker, met at the new job she started a month before BD (after a year of job-seeking funded by me). A good listener, 10 years younger than me, better-looking and athletic, he'd been courting her from week 1 and was omnipresent throughout her move. He's moving in with her in January. Our two daughters know and like him and generally take the S in strides.

DBing
I accept responsibility for what I did in the M, by being too critical and dismissive of my W's feelings. I understand that my W was looking for something she wasn't finding in the M. I sometimes understand why she left, since she was miserable, and sometimes think leaving was too strong a reaction for the situation. I tend to blame her flight reflex and unrealistic expectations for love and family life.

My stance at the moment is to let her live her life while I reflect and try to focus on me. In January, I told her I didn't want to interact beyond the practicalities of the kids because I need to move on. I'm good at being silent and distant. The "no pursuing" rule is easy to apply for me because it means doing nothing. What I'm not so good at is detach. I see a therapist since BD.
_________________________________________________

Success stories
Feel free to make suggestions, especially with links to threads. I wish we had room in our profile to tell our story so that the vets and other successes could give us a quick summary.

RECONCILIATION
Thornton (M) - May to July 2014
Train (W) - Reconciled in 2014
Labug (W) - March 2011 to December 2013
HopefulStill - reconciled in 2012
minkerman (M) - Reconciled after 4 months in 2008
25yearsmlc (W) - 2005 to August 2008
FaithfulH - Reconciled in 2007
sandi2 (W) - ?
Coach (M) - 2008
MrBond (M) - Used to have another screen name
Starsky309 (M) - (ChocolateEyes, Puppy Dog Tails) - Aug 2007 to 2009. Exposed his W's A.
Butterflymom127 and FavoriteWeirdo - Thread

PIECING AS OF 2014
Crimson
T0324
Heart14
Nitty - BD in December 2013, piecing as of September 2014

LETTING GO
Love2Surf (M) - March 2010 to 2012
pearlharbr (W) - November 2008 to June 2010 (19 months)
Snow White (W) - 2008-2009. Let go when her H wanted back in.

Validation thread


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Mozza Offline OP
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I also posted in the man cave, but Mach1 kindly suggested to take the conversation to my own thread. Here it is.

Originally Posted By: Mozza
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
I too have found this (alpha-vs.-beta male) a tough needle to thread. Despite my hard-ass image here (which is more due to strategies and tactics that WORKED for me, and that I've seen work in others' sitches) I'm actually a classic fixer/pleaser/"Mr. Nice Guy" at heart in real life.

Just want to thank you again for sharing your perspective. I like your focus on what works. You may have seen in my sitch that I trust the DB process, even when it goes against my instincts or emotions.

Originally Posted By: Starsky309
And while that personality type will definitely make you a lot of friends, and probably get you an eternal "Well done, my good and faithful servant" from St. Peter someday, it's been my observation and experience that it doesn't really build attraction with women and a healthy sex life, even within an otherwise-strong marriage.

Interesting. I've been thinking about that because I've never been dumped before in my life, so it worked well for me. Can't say that I had even 10% of the women I wanted though. Also, she seems to have been attracted to another nice guy. The OM has an athletic build and good looks, but I don't think he has an alpha man attitude. He looks like a pleaser to me. Also, he's 5 years younger than my W and I suspect she wants a man she can control. She didn't have that with me. I was fairly confident as a H and was mostly in charge of the R. She called me her rock. At DB, she said that this rock was holding her back, that she needed to be free.

Also, we had a good sex life. We did it 1-2 times a week, which seems good to me after 10 years and two young kids. It wasn't fireworks, but it wasn't routine either (I was in charge). Lots of desire between us. I'm still trying to figure out how we could have a good sex life, yet she could leave me so quick. Maybe it was the hormones, the physical needs that camouflaged the lack of emotional connection on her side.

There seems to be some contradictions to resolve in my sitch. I still need to figure out what kind of man I am. Looking forward to the discussions around here.


Originally Posted By: Mach1
Mozza.....great questions....

This thread is gonna lock soon, so maybe if you wanna continue this on your thread, I would be happy to engage it there


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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Good luck Mozza 8. smile
It's scary to see how long the marathon is. And mine just started smirk did you actually read about my new developments?^^

It's going to be so hard to keep detachment and hope in balance. They fight each other constantly.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Originally Posted By: Mozza

Interesting. I've been thinking about that because I've never been dumped before in my life, so it worked well for me. Can't say that I had even 10% of the women I wanted though. Also, she seems to have been attracted to another nice guy. The OM has an athletic build and good looks, but I don't think he has an alpha man attitude. He looks like a pleaser to me. Also, he's 5 years younger than my W and I suspect she wants a man she can control. She didn't have that with me. I was fairly confident as a H and was mostly in charge of the R. She called me her rock. At DB, she said that this rock was holding her back, that she needed to be free.


I wouldn't spend too much time comparing yourself to the OM. It's a pretty futile endeavor that will spin you down a cheeseless tunnel.

No need to undermine yourself, just to pump up the image of what you THINK that he is like....

As far as control, that is what the WAS is looking for, complete control over a situation in which they previously felt out of control.

Now, is that real ? Or is it perception ??

I can tell you that it is very real to your WAS.




Originally Posted By: Mozza

Also, we had a good sex life. We did it 1-2 times a week, which seems good to me after 10 years and two young kids. It wasn't fireworks, but it wasn't routine either (I was in charge). Lots of desire between us. I'm still trying to figure out how we could have a good sex life, yet she could leave me so quick. Maybe it was the hormones, the physical needs that camouflaged the lack of emotional connection on her side.


How Men feel connected, is by the physical aspect of a relationship, before the emotional aspect of the relationship is felt. Women tend to be the opposite of that. They crave the closeness, and emotions before they "feel" the physical part.

Take a look, and try to see how much of that played into your marriage....

In most cases that I have read, there is a false closeness that happens right before the bomb. The WAS, in some way, is trying to see, and check off their list, that they tried "everything" , therefore, walking away was the last option for them.


Originally Posted By: Mozza

There seems to be some contradictions to resolve in my sitch. I still need to figure out what kind of man I am. Looking forward to the discussions around here.


Only you can decide that.

What kind of man to you want to be ???

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Well, that's new.

I just sent a long handover email to my W because D6 and D3 had some issues this week. D6 has done a bit of bullying at school and D3 is not cooperative at the daycare. She was pleased with the email and after the exchange was over, she sent me a follow-up:

"Do the girls talk about me when I'm not there? Do you think they misbehave because I'm not there? What's your diagnostic?"

I don't want to read too much into it, but it's the first time she shows any concern for the impact of the S on the girls. She had even told me not to tell her if the girls complained about her absence. I had complied and I now realize it has the upside of her imagining all sort of awful things I don't tell her wink. As for asking my opinion, it's not even new in the sitch: she always thought I'm a good father and called me before because she was overwhelmed.

I replied right away, no games, no calculations. I certainly didn't guilt her because I don't think it has anything to do with the S. I feel oddly detached.

And I also realize that while I cut off all communications outside of the kids, I can still be funny and engaging about that bit and she'll see even more what she's missing outside of it.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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Regarding OM comparisons:
Since I snooped I actually got insight on everything (reading text of her and best friend). Which I am by the way not proud of but it at least clarified my situation which was a huge relief and now I stop snooping.

Let me tell you this: compare yourself to her first and what you would share or talk about with your buddies, like sexual attraction and bs'ing around. Would you read much into that yourself?
I read her text and I freaked out taking everything word by word. Until people here opened my eyes. Yes there is truth in what W said. But we are humans. We get ourselves into thoughts constantly and we mess around with our friends, even if it's morally not right.

Long speech..BUT when it comes down to the really important things in life, your soul will be in control and things are in a different light. Same counts for plain "appeal" of someone who looks "better" or "worse" than you.
IT DOESNT MATTER. It's superficial.
Nothing matters but you.
Don't go that way.
I am trying to blend OM completely out. Easier said than done. 180 !!!!


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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The incident with your kids and her reaction is a step into the right direction but don't read any into this.
But good job how you handled it. It's hard to manage a situation like this without make her feel guilt of some sort and be obvious about it.

The odd detachment I feel sometimes too is a weird feeling. It's scary but good at the same time. Hard to describe..


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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It's just junk thoughts and temperature checking.

You did well to validate and confirm your views.

Mza, you are doing well

Vanilla


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Mozza Offline OP
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Thanks a lot Mach1 for coming over and sharing your insights. It's hard to know "what kind of man" I want to be because I don't really know the parameters. I can say that I'm a lot of the man I want to be, but I have 180s that address the issues that pushed my W away. For instance, I want to be less critical and I want to express my appreciation and love more (I'd say ILY 1-2 times a year), and I want to be more present with my W. As for confidence, I think I have plenty in my couple. I have clarity of goals and morals and I can communicate them. I don't think it was an issue. Obviously, I don't want to become the opposite of the man I was just because she left me: there were a lot of things that were already right with me and I want to nurture them.
-----------------

So this week I'm running a little experiment: I won't be thinking or talking about the chances of reconciliation. I'm already dead and she's not coming back. It doesn't mean I'm giving up at all. I have the gift of time and I want to see what's the impact on me of considering that my future doesn't involve WAW as my partner. I want to see if it makes me feel better or worse, if it helps me to detach. So far, I've had moments where it felt great to be freed up from her, like suddenly the world was wide open. Other times, I felt awful because I still can't bear the thought of losing her forever. It's a change form the kind of pain I've experienced so far, which is more about that of applying DB (hiding my emotions from her, cutting off fun exchanges, etc.) and knowing she's with someone else before coming back to me.

Her request to start the D process gave me a push. I felt awful when it happened, but then I felt great for some 36 hours, like it had given me clarity, was removing me from a limbo of my own making. I'm not so good today, but I'm not worst than before she mentioned D.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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Special thanks to 25yearsmlc for her post about detahment and what it's like in my sitch and when WAW will have 2nd thoughts.

I think they are treasures on this board and I hope others in similar sitches will read them. It's especially good for people who have a hard time to detac or wonder if their WAS will ever see their changes.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Imagine that you are a widower, and that enough time has passed that most of your grief over the loss of your w, has subsided.

I've been thinking about this a lot. It often makes me feel good because I feel free from my W. That's where I had the idea to run a week considering it's really over for good. We'll see where that takes me.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I don't recall you saying you "never" want to talk to her about anything but the kids, but just that for now, this is what you need. Correct?

Correct. And in fact, our communications about the kids have intensified since then, as you can see in my post above. She even asked about the impact of S on the kids for the first time.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: Mozza
Basically, my fear is that she'll want to come back but will feel pushed away by me and not come and tell me.

IF your wife does someday want to reconcile, wouldn't you need a tad more than one probing question or gesture from her?

Absolutely. I've come to the same conclusion. I shouldn't hold the door wide open in case she has a sliver of a doubt. I should keep it shut and wait for her to knock clearly on it. It's not even a question of pride, it's about making sure that she has the will and determination it will take, and the love that I deserve.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Like you, I can't see a sudden awakening on her end, as the result of having no contact with you in person.

Like you, I don't know how she'd see the new/improved you, for her to know whether she wants to reconcile.

However, these issues and dilemmas are all moot right now. Can you guess why they are moot at this point and thus, do not matter?

The reason this^^ and thoughts of "how we can ever reconcile" and what she'll know or think about you and your new changes, are all moot at this point, is b/c You are not detached enough to be around her, without feeling crappy AND OR somehow making the situation worse.

Is that it, in a nutshell? B/C if so, then we need to help you detach FIRST and then figure out other approaches to take to do the DB work that you can do.

Yes, I agree that I'm not detached enough and that it's hard for me to act naturally like I'm moving on in front of her. One thing you should know is that I'm very self-controlled, so I've been good so far. Regardless, it would be better for me to detach. I've had a few moments where I was and things appeared much more clearly to me. I worried less about the outcome for instance and I feel like I did the right DB thing anyway. I really hope to be able to detach in the coming weeks.

Cutting off chit chat should have helped, and I think it did, but we have intensified the communications about the kids so much that she stays this constant, pleasant presence in my life. It makes me think about her a lot. It's the familiarity of her tone, of her writing style, of her concerns and quirks. It's her, whether we talk about the kids or not and I miss her.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Mozz, I don't think ANY Woman leaving a h and child(ten) could have zero 2nd thoughts. Absent abuse, every single mother is going to wonder if she's doing right by her kids, by leaving.

Good timing: she asked about the impact of S on them a few days later, a first in four months. It made me feel like she's becoming more "normal" about the whole thing, moving on from the classic "they're resilient".

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
WHEREAS YOU WISH she'd come to wonder or believe that

"Wow, Mozz is a changed man. He's a really good father. He is now the way I always wanted him to be. He's now truly the man I thought he was when I married him... wow I wonder if we could make it work, this time... what if I'm willing to own my part and prove my commitment to him? What would that look like? "

That^^ is what you wish for, correct?

Yes, that's what I want. More precisely, I hope and expect something like this:

"Wow, I really miss Mozza. I feel this love for him I wasn't feeling when I left. He was such a good man and a great father. He's a great partner for life. He seems to have changed so much, I wonder if we could get along better? Could it last? What would I have to do?"

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
When will they have those doubts or second thoughts? WHEN will they wonder if they really did right by their kids, or themselves?

(...)

But I really do believe that --Deep down, a mother of kids who love their dad, who once really did love her h as well, Will look back and wonder what might have been... I know she will.... Be ready for when she does that, b/c 10 to 1, if you keep at this, she will.

Make sense? Got this?

This was a wonderful list. Not all but many of the things applied to my sitch. It gives me reasons to believe (though I try not to think about that this week). As I wrote above, the fact that my WAW finally showed concern about the kids makes me think she's more 'normal' and hence that the scenarios described in DB could possibly apply to her after all.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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