To Stir Or Not to Stir That Pot

[Wet]

Hi Gerda, you appear to me as a wonderful, Spirit-filled woman going through a really tough battle. It is encouraging to hear that you are praying for me and my W. Have you visited the 'Prayer Circle' in the Infidelity section of the Board? I would be interested to hear what your regular prayers are for your sitch. Thanks.

[MrBond]

Have you ever read the DB or DR books?

[Wet]

Hi Gerda, are you doing alright?

[job]

Bumping this up for Gerda.

[job]

Gerda posted on the Detachment Thread this morning:

I am struggling with this a lot this week, so I was glad to see this post. But while I understand this in theory, I have so much trouble figuring out how to do it at times.

My H lives with us, but abandoned the family as far as being a real husband/father in December 2013. I am deeply religious and totally devoted to standing for the marriage and developiing my relationship with and reliance on God alone.

I had to go through a mastectomy this fall, basically alone and with almost no help with kids. And now --- You know how they love to rewrite history and blame you for everything? Well his new tagline is about how I have never respected the life of the mind. I don't know if there is still an OW, but his dissertation is an OW of sorts, ALL he does, literally, is work on that and train for marathons. He barely looks up from his book, is furious if interrupted, and if he eats at the same time, he reads a book. I admit that my pride is struggling with not answering. I will paste an e-mail he sent me below -- but e-mail is easy to ignore. It's when he says these things in person, when I am cooking or cleaning or just in the house, and I have so much trouble not saying, "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!!" and providing a litany of how I have completely surrendered any expectation of his upholding any vow or participating in any way in family life for 15 months now, plus the year or two before bomb drop when things started sliding south (and to be fair, before I transformed myself).

I would love advice in the form of what exactly to say or do in those moments. I keep praying about it but then in the moment I get confused, I answer him, or don't know if I can just be totally silent if I can't leave the house (because of the kids, he doesn't watch them ever).

Here's the e-mail. And keep in mind that he has not spent time with his kids really since bomb drop in December 2013. He is here in the evenings but very out of it and rageful. They, especially my son, are very traumatized but we are making it day by day. Also, just an FYI in the world of MLC flip-flopping, he sent this about going to our cabin and demanded our weekend renters leave earlier than the usual check-out but then announced he wouldn't be going the day he was to leave, because it was going to be too cold though this is the warmest week we've had in months.

Is the cabin still open from Sunday morning till Thursday morning? I would go up early Sunday and leave the cabin 5am Thursday. My spirits can only but be unsettled and snappy with this doctorate undone, and always always some interruptions happen at Jones (that's our house). Not blaming you, but the ethos of that house is such that the dual offices of being a world-changing intellectual and a domestic parent are totally and mutually incompatible. This does not have to be the case. And yet it is and always has been, as it was in my parent's house growing up: the life of the mind is second fiddle. I want my kids to believe otherwise. A
parent can be great who is not doing parenty things. I refuse narrow definitions of what a parent is. [D] called me a real dad the other day because I drove her to school. All other dads are not real. Sad. Let me know about the cabin.


Edited by Gerda (Today at 09:07 AM)

[job]

Gerda,
I do understand how you feel and the fact that he is still acting in a "rageful" manner is not healthy for you or your children.

Detaching is for YOU and it takes a while to get the hang of it so that you aren't reacting to every comment, action or behavior of his. Also, there isn't a "one size fits all" response to everything that they say or do. As you move along on this journey, you'll begin to learn more of what works for you in the way of detaching and dealing w/the behaviors.

As I stated in my posting to you on the Detachment thread, when he's not happy about something, just say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and walk away, i.e., no discussions or apologies unless it's something that you think requires an apology. Can you provide us w/some examples of things he's said and we can help you w/some generic responses?

About those rages, if he's raging at you or the children, you need to call him on it. You could address him as "h, whatever the problem is, I will be happy to discuss it with you when you calm down." Then walk away. You and your children do not need to be subjected to this behavior.

This is the strangest email that I have ever read. He's writing it as if he's communicating w/someone other than you. Does he always communicate w/you this way? It's very telling in the fact that he grew up being the second fiddle and he doesn't want that for his children. What was his home life like? Did they not parent or did they just focus on their jobs? He certainly has stated that he can't do both, i.e., work and be a parent. Apparently in his mind it's all black and white and it has to be one or the other.

How to address this email? Just tell him whether the cabin is available and let the rest of this email go. I honestly don't think he's looking for any other response but a yes or no.

Please, please take care of yourself and your children. I know it's difficult w/him there, but I do hope you'll encourage him to go to the cabin and maybe he'll stay there for a while. You and your children need a break.

[kml]

Not blaming you, but the ethos of that house is such that the dual offices of being a world-changing intellectual and a domestic parent are totally and mutually incompatible.

Oh PUH-LEEZE!!!! He's a "world-changing intellectual" and therefore, cannot be expected to perform any of the duties of a husband and parent????

Be honest, now, Gerda - has he ALWAYS been such a PUTZ? Or is this all just since his affair? Is the OW perhaps another academic?

And you mentioned that you are not financially dependent on him, but quite the opposite - does this mean you are supporting him while he finishes his dissertation?

Something is very not-right about him, beyond even the ordinary madness of the WAS. If you had to pick one, would it be:
- drug or alcohol abuse?
- bipolar disorder? ("world-changing intellectual" sounds manic to me)
- sociopathy or narcissism? (Before you say no, please read The Sociopath Next Door - great book).
- Asperger's syndrome?

Is he taking a long time to finish his dissertation? Is it any good?

My ex had some definite narcissistic tendencies, although I couldn't see it clearly while I was married to him. Still, one of my fears when I WAS married to him, was that if anything untoward happened to me, like breast cancer, that I couldn't count on him to be there for me. Sounds like you, unfortunately, experienced what I had always feared with my ex. (My new man, btw, is the exact opposite in that regard - I'm pretty sure if I or any member of my family was sick, he'd be right there holding my hair while I puked.)

[Gerda]

I posted this on my other note and realized that I should put it here since Job so kindly brought my post back up. And now I see that folks had posted here during the time that I had stopped visiting the site. Thank you all so much!

Originally Posted By: job
Gerda,
In fact, someone has asked about you recently.


Job, I read your earlier posts to me over and over. (I also read the Book of Job all the time.) Reading that you wrote back and took all this time to get my post seen made me start to cry. And then to read that someone asked about me really made me cry. (Can you tell me who?) I guess it's hard to go this alone and so so nice to feel that there is someone out there who cares about me. THANK YOU.

I stopped posting for a while because I already sleep so little that I felt it was actually not good for me to spend time on this. But this last week or two I am desperately lonely.

Yes, I had a mastectomy in the fall. I think I mentioned that in my other thread but probably it was buried in there. I had a dream in which a voice came to me and told me where to find the lump, and I woke and felt it, and then I didn't even have to have chemo and have been able to mother my kids with almost no break from that cancer experience, so I feel so blessed in that too and don't talk about it in the way I would have thought I would have talked about having cancer. This year I had to face my three biggest fears (losing my husband's love, him having an affair, and cancer (not to mention the MRI!), and I have faced them all with God's help and love.

Can I just be silly and ask this in detail -- So if he is ranting about how badly I run the house or some other flaw or blaming me for something, I just no matter what say, "I'm sorry you feel that way." It seems that most of my responses cause him to rant that I think I am so saintly and so perfect, etc, almost taunting me, and unraveling my resolve to be kind. It seems that the only thing I can do is be silent and even avoid his eyes most of the time, but this violates all I try to do through the Rejoice Ministries/Christian approach. I think I am always confused because I want to enact Christ, loving my enemy and giving kindness back for evil, but it seems that any response to an MLCer causes more spew. And I often descend into the pit of wondering about OW or what he is or isn't doing, etc., and this makes me very short-tempered and resentful unless I remove myself totally by running down to church for a while. (It's one block away, very helpful!) I pray about this a lot and always the answer I receive is about patience and waiting and taking all my sorrows to God, but in the moment of encountering the problems at home I am always confused about what to say or do. I feel like nothing "works," and it's just a matter of bearing it and trying to minimize the contact.

Thank you for your love and kindness. Thank you so much.

[Gerda]

Hi Gerda, you appear to me as a wonderful, Spirit-filled woman going through a really tough battle. It is encouraging to hear that you are praying for me and my W. Have you visited the 'Prayer Circle' in the Infidelity section of the Board? I would be interested to hear what your regular prayers are for your sitch. Thanks.

I did not know about the prayer circle and will check it out! I am working so many jobs right now and have in effect sole responsibility for my kids, the (failing) business I share with my husband and all the extra jobs I work to try to actually make money while I keep the failing business afloat in hopes of selling it! So I sort of decided I should not post here or spend time reading posts, I should just use that extra time for prayer. But I got lonely and confused the last couple weeks, so here I am!

I am very touched by the words you wrote about me. I actually believe in miracles because of what has happened to me since this all started. Some day I will write my whole story; I came to Christ from Judaism because of this crisis and because of these miracles calling me. I think my story could help change hearts.

And actually if you can believe it, I really have been praying for you and your wife. I have to go to church at least once a day to keep it together, the church is always open here, it is a very beautiful old Catholic Church in NYC with a million beautiful paintings and glorious old windows, and I pray for various couples everyday, and you are one of them. So you can picture that someone is praying for you and your wife in that beautiful place!

[Gerda]

Have you ever read the DB or DR books?

Oh my goodness, I must appear really lost if you are asking that!!! I have read the books and even had the phone counseling until I couldn't afford it anymore! I just confused sometimes, and it gets weary once you realize that this MLC thing is real, and it's not going to end any time soon. I read somewhere that we all think our situation will be different and faster, and slowly realize it won't. That's where I am.