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MCS, to be completely honest, Im not sure why you felt the need to call her? Ive read this post a few times, and every time I come up with the same thing.

Your initial email exchange seemed fine to me? I didnt interpret her response as rude, or anything like that. She wasn't exactly super friendly, but she wasn't antagonistic either. Just sounded like she wanted the kids while you were gone, maybe she just wants more time with them too?

Your phone call, seemed...ok. It really just sounds like your W is not ready to talk over the phone, even you were surprised she picked up. I feel like you might be trying to rush things. Just because YOU want to improve communication doesn't mean your W does right now. Remember, we cant rush things, and the more we try, the more negative a response we will probably get. Again, let her do this on her time. If I remember correctly, you guys actually were talking ok for a while, but then you brought up R and it kinda backfired?

I don't think this is a fail or a win. I think...it is what it is. Nothing really to recover from, just don't push her into having more communication when she's not ready. You tried it, it didnt really work, so give it some more time and she'll be ready when she's ready.

Take a deep breath, I feel like you are reading way too much into an email that really didnt sound that bad at all. Just my 2 cents. Don't stress this too much


ME: 28
W: 24
M: 2.5yrs
T: 5yrs
BD: 22 SEP 14
W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
Joined: Oct 2014
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Much like TLEE86, I don't get what upsets you so much in the communications of your WAW. It seems that, as a matter of principle, you'd like her to communicate more, even if it wouldn't change a thing for the subject at hand.

I don't even think you want to "improve" communications. I think you want to control them. You want them done your way. You'd be better to focus on the outcome, not the process in this case. That's what I do and I let go of a lot of things. For instance, my W never ever says "thank you" for the stuff I send her. Happened again this week: I returned her winter gear left at my parent's place and she didn't peep a word about it. I never bring it up here and I very rarely notice it. She got her stuff back, that's what counts.

My W and I have zero hand-off note for the kids. I wanted us to do it in the beginning but she didn't go along and I dropped it. I don't even think about it now and, after all, we should trust the kids were fine. We tell each other of illnesses, that's it.

See: focus on the outcome. Let go of your idea that you can control the process. You can't control her anyway. Also, as with most things DB, this might be a lesson for how you should be in a future relationship, with her or someone else.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Hey MCS. Yes it's tough when the W doesn't want to speak with you.

One thing I've used that gets a positive response...you ask. You see you didn't ask in your first email. But then you wanted her to ask in her response. Then you poked her about not asking on the phone.

So you could say... "Hey W. Just found out today... I'll being out of town on business to XXX on Jan. XX. How would you feel if my parents came down to watch the kids?"

Then, when you talk on the phone... don't poke her for anything she didn't do for you. No expectations right?

What do you think?


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 545
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TLEE86,


So, I'm preparing for some 2x4's by this post, I'm just frustrated right now. This has been 5 months of these things. We had one weekend, the days after I confronted her about OM that we talked and that was it. She threatened lawyers by that Tuesday and refused to talk to or email me.

I need to keep reminding myself how lost she is right now, I can support that as an adult and can stay focused. However, my patience as a parent is wearing thin. I get exactly what you are saying from a DB approach and I need to stay focused on that in the long run, I haven't tried to talk about her, I, the R, the M, anything but the kids since Oct. and it hasn't gotten any better. Like I said even the MC seems perplexed why she can't talk to me outside counseling (mediation) about the kids.

Yeah, I didn't need to call her, I just knew I'd fume over this all weekend and hoped that I could talk with her after the MC this week was trying to get us to talk independently with each other.

Its part of putting DB aside right now. I understand LRT/NC for our R, but with the kids it feels our communication is so bad and the kids are suffering, they're not getting the continuity of a common approach from both parents. If they were older, I would say its W responsibility to figure out the relationship with the kids, but our kids are too young for that right now.

I guess I can accept the R is pretty much over right now, but this precedent I can't handle with the kids. Its hard to explain, because some of this stuff is acceptable if you read it independently. My concern is its stuff that is a 180 from how 'we' parented our kids before BD. I've been gently trying a bunch of things since Oct. to improve our conversations after we finally started to go to counseling (mediation.) Before that there was absolutely no contact and since then it hasn't been much better.

It's the proverbial rock and hard place. Since we can't communicate, we both manifest the worse out of things that are happening with the other person.

She's threaten to not let me see the kids, courts lawyers, etc. whenever I don't fully agree with something. Initially, I would throw stuff back about the kids that probably didn't matter in the grand scheme of things and I needed to put aside for DB, but if I was looking at this stuff just as a parent, I'd at least ask her what the deal is.

It's tic-tac stuff when you just list it, but its stuff that parents would discuss and try to resolve or at least get a common understanding when its about kids. I've been patient burying this stuff inside me when I talk to her, but its starting to be overwhelming for me. I've learned to STFU on most of it, but it still bothers me. I've let most of this stuff go and moved on, but I'm continuing to see I'm getting angrier about it. For example:

-First and foremost. She left her kids, walked out on them as they stood there'd watched her leave and then disappeared for a week
-She wasn't bathing the kids when she had them. (she didn't have a bath tub and didn't want to force them to take a shower)
-She took them out of town and did not let me know where she was staying
-She wouldn't let me know where she lived
-She had OM over every weekend at first. After first weekend of S, D4 came back and told Daycare she didn't like Mr. OM, he looked weird
-She's dropped D4 off at daycare in just a nightshirt when its <40 degrees out
-She's had D4 out when it was 30 degrees in flip-flops, a skirt and tights
-She didn't attend S5 Kindergarten orientation, first day of school, parent teacher conference
-She's left town and did not tell me where she was (what if there was an emergency for the kids.) I only knew she left based on our work calendars
-She's used intermediate people to drop off and pick up the kids
-She has never called to talk with the kids, nor accepted my calls to talk with the kids (I stopped when she said she didn't want me calling her)
-She wants a certain schedule, but won't talk to me about any alternatives
-Tells me the kids beg her to come home, but says she can't see that ever happening
-Bought a house 30 minutes away from their school and daycare, plenty of places around here
-Lived in a one bedroom efficiency apartment with no yard or place to play
-Had the kids two days a week and still got others to babysit them
-We told the kids that W was going to take them out for Halloween, she cancelled at the last minute
-We were going to go out together as a family for D4's Birthday, she told me I was uninvited the day before
-She decided at the last minute to drive the kids 6 hours to her mom's on Xmas day, instead of letting them stay home and play with their toys
-Going up to single digit temps at her moms, didn't have hats or gloves for them (I gave her some)
-Only communicates each week about the kids with a one-line email
-Said we should send pictures of kids for important things (test results, school stuff, etc.) I've send 15 things over the last 6 weeks, she hasn't sent any nor replied to any I sent
-Kids singing vulgar songs that we would never let them sing before. "Well, we sing it at mom's place and she says its okay"


Sorry, I know this sounds like I'm just complaining, because that's what I am doing. But she says she's putting the kids first in everything she does and it sure doesn't feel that way to me. My DB tendency has been to shut up about it. I can just see that this is building up in me and I'm not sure when its going to all come pouring out.


M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
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Posts: 545
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Okay, calmed down a little. I think venting here cleared my mind a little. Thanks TLEE, HP, Mozza. I'm trying to make sure I'm not trying to control. However, my core problem right now is I don't trust her with the kids emotions. It's coming back, but very slowly. It's something I need to continue to work on.

Your right, while I didn't like that she just assumed a schedule and stated what it "will" be, she replied back, she answered my call, when I talked she didn't freak out, didn't want to talk until next week, but I guess that's okay.

Those are things I wanted to accomplish with this. I guess I had an expectation that she would 'ask' to watch the kids instead of my parents, it's not fair to get angry at her because she didn't reply back with the right word. Email stinks to communicate anyway.

In the email, I had some other stuff that required an exchange between us. I just sent another email back to her. Explained my desires and reasons for maybe working the schedule, but said we'd talk at counselling (mediation)

As I said to HP, I bought a sign last week:

"Expect nothing, Appreciate Everything"

I got it, I'll make sure I heed that second part tonight.

Last edited by MCS; 01/10/15 07:15 AM.

M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
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My dear MCS, you are hurting, I see you, I feel your pain... We could be brothers, you and me, similar ages, our respective Ws similar age, our children similar ages, I too have a D(5) and a S(3)and my W also left. My BD was 2 months earlier than yours.

Let her go, she has to go sort her $hit out. There is nothing you can do to help. Do not try to understand her, you can't so don't even try. But DO lawyer up. Keep a detailed record of her actions and conversations and gather as much evidence you can. But do not snoop, it really will do you no good, and you will feel terrible. You have to protect your interests, financial and other (esp the kids). Do not try to use the kids to get trough to her... It will not work, but you have figured that one out yourself...

DETACH, GAL, 180 and be the best dad in the world for your kids. Don't think about your W, she currently does not give a rat's derrier about you.

IMHO you do have to get some sort of court protection for your kids, she must not be allowed do issue threats using the kids as weapons against you. LAWYER UP, protect yourself. Do not count on her kindness or whatever. She is not the same person you knew, this person now you do not know, and trust me, you do not want to know!

I would bring up the issue with the kids at mediation and stated my boundries. She cannot behave like this, you are their father, you do have rights! Don't get shafted. Again, do not count on her to do the right thing, she will not. Always have a backup plan in she stands you out. Do not call her, do not text her, do not email her, the only exception being the kids.

It will get better, I promise you, just focus on you and your kids, try to live like she is a neighbor. Be civil, but nothing more. Always have your game face on, let her wonder why you are happy (even if you are not). Do not show feelings around her, if you are overwhelmed, cry in private, tears do wash and clean your soul. Stay busy and keep your mind off her. She is not worth your brain power. I am sure you have a ton of stuff you always wanted to do. Guess what, now you have the time. Go do stuff. Being single in a refreshing change after 15yrs. It will feel weird at first, but I am loving it now. Movies for 1? Why not? Having a beer too many with friends from time to time? Why not? The battle axe is not around to give you a hard time... Liberate your soul, the hurting does no one any good. She will not just snap out of it, she will not come running to your arms tomorrow. Now that you have time, analyze your shortcomings in the M and own your $hit as well. I know you were not the perfect H. Admit it to yourself, own your $hit, forgive yourself and improve yourself. Become the guy only an idiot would leave. If your wife does not recognize the new you, some other lucky woman will.

And to wrap it up, go to joelosteen.com, go under messages and have a look at the video release control. 30 minutes you will not regret. Go now, do, BE!

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Vapo,

Thanks a lot. I took a look at the video, it really helped. I've been trying to work through releasing control of all parts of the sitch with my IC. I've got it down for the R, our finances, the kids are the last thing. It's just the things she's done to the kids, they don't deserve it and then I get all Daddy Bear on her. The toughest part is how different her parenting seems right now.

I can say talking with the kids, she is getting better with her interactions with them. The kids will usually tell me what they did with her and it seems like she's not as focused on herself when their with her.

I've got a lawyer (she saw one within first week, I guess she was concerned with abandonment) and have been keeping track of most things that are noteworthy. I've got a few questions into the Lawyer about finances right now. We're in a 50/50 no fault state, so the joy of this whole thing is if we D, I'll owe her pile of money too.

Thanks for checking in. I appreciate it.


Last edited by MCS; 01/11/15 08:11 AM.

M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 545
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So, I'm still up and down with the whole communication with the kids. It's tearing me up for some reason and I think I know why....

Here's a vent session.......but I've felt this way all weekend. I need to get it out.

Using DB as the core, I've STFU about everything, including the kids. I've become fearful of anything I say about the kids to her. Why? fear that it would drive her away. Fear she would stop talking to me. Fear that she would stop going to counselling (mediation.) I didn't sleep at all last Monday because I knew she would bring up the schedule and then get mad if I didn't agree without changing it. Well, that happened

Well, all of these decisions she's made for the last year are hers alone. I can't control those decisions. Even though she blames this all on me, sure our marriage became ho-hum. I wanted more in our M, I just knew that it was a time that our M was laissez faire. 2 jobs, young kids, etc. But swe still found time to go on vacations that she wanted and all.

Sure she was overwhelmed 1.5 years ago with a 1 and 3 year old. Well, so was I. Then the martyism that she had over the last year. It's still there. Complaining about everything and how nothing is ever good in her life. She would tell me she never has any time for herself. Well, now I see that she had enough time for an A for over a year.

Even now, she's complaining how tight money is because she needs to pay two mortgages, this was to a friend of ours that knows what I've been trying to do with that. Her buying a house And paying both wereher decision....I keep trying to split her mortgage with me or just take mine myself and she won't do it. That would give her something she couldn't complain about.

Then she complained to me last week about how hard she has had to work for the kids to get the house ready. Saying she had to carry a dresser up the stairs herself, had to buy a house, etc....Her decisions! and why is she complaining about how hard SHE worked for them. If she was honestly looking at them first, it wouldn't matter. I don't mind one bit of the stuff I've done for the kids, it's actually when I'm not around them that I get upset.

This martyism was part of her way to cope about what was going on in her life, complain about something. I look back and this goes on for a while, but it never was over the top. Then I see the last year was different. When she was talking with me, it was always other things that were wrong in her life: work, friends, volunteering. You'd think at least once she would have said. MCS, you are why I'm unhappy or MCS, our marriage is in trouble. Nope, never. Never, never......then when she left, who did she blame? MCS. She would have kept that on me for the rest of my life. MCS was the one to ruin the M, but then I found out about OM and her plan didn't work.

Now I look back and the complaining she did with me, she did with other people, but the topic was different. It was MCS. MCS has caused all of her problems, our friends didn't believe it because they know MCS and her allegations were ridiculous. Her family didn't believe it, they know MCS. Friends told me after BD that she would say complain about me and they'd tell her to talk to MCS about it. Did she? Nope. But when they would ask again, she'd tell them that she's told me multiple times, or she told me and I yelled at her. WHAT?!?

Well, OM believed the things she said about MCS, so she kept telling him. Then she started to hang out with OM's friends and GF. They believed it too. So MCS is a horrible person and here's the thing. SHE started to believe it. why all of this lying? 18 months of lying (maybe more.) because W is not looking at herself.

I need to stop trying to rescue her. Gently, nudging her to see if she can get back on track, but not saying stuff about the kids because it may upset her. I can honestly say, looking back MCS was a really good husband and dad before BD. Now MCS is working on become a fantastic husband and dad. It's W decision if she wants back in.

My family is me and my two wonderful kids, right now. MCS is going to keep mum on mostly everything, but not the kids. They need me to be their Dad and right now, I'm not because I'm fearful my wife may get upset about what I say.


M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
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Do not get fearful. And a newsflash buddy, you can't lose her, for she is already lost to you. Ditch the fear, fear is the mind killer. So what if she stops talking to you? What good did the recent conversations bring you? None?!?

Dude, time to focus on yourself and release all ideas of control you think you have. Go watch the video again... Release control, focus on you and let her the four be...

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Vapo,

Yeah, I agree. Your right, our conversations are doing nothing. She tells me things and does whatever she wants anyway. She's so angry at sessions and I let it affect me, like I'm a bad person. It's the pinnacle of diversion and projecting back onto me. The comments about how hard she has it really put me over the edge. Like it was my fault she's in this. I used to think that way, but that's what my boiling point was. Im done taking the blame. It's like trying to talk to a spoiled teenager.

I watched that video last night and that's when I realized that the outcome is going to be what it's meant to be. like I said, my IC has been working on trying to make me realize that I'm paralyzed with fear about how things I do or say could affect the outcome. I Was just not getting it at first, but the video helped....it's not in my hands. I'm releasing control.

my W and M aside, it's so painful to cope with the thought of missing out on half my kids lives, but that's just one other thing that I can't control right now. Also, I need to live for today, not for what may or may not come.

I know she's already gone, so why was I still trying to rescue her? I don't know. What I was trying to say above that these were all 'her' decisions, I can't cater to them anymore. I'm not going to be a jerk about anything, but it's time I start doing what I need to do.

The first part of that is tell her that how's she is interacting with me when it comes to the kids is unacceptable. It is not fair to the kids and it's her decision to either make this cordial or keep going down the path we are going.

Thanks for your help Vapo, it's funny in my sitch, whenever I start to transition to the next phase, it's like all of these people that don't know each other unite and make me take the next step. You and the video did push me over the edge, you were probably the 6th or 7th person in the past few days that hit me with the 2x4 of 'stop trying to ignore that she is already gone' and 'you can only control you, not the outcome'

Thanks




Last edited by MCS; 01/12/15 07:00 AM.
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