Angry WAH blames me for everything.......(2)

[gan]

Oh man, Calibri! That is one post. I am blown away on multiple levels, too.

You know, sometimes I gotta wonder if there is more to this whole thing than I realise. I too have had conversations with family members that I never would have had otherwise. And friends have come out of the woodwork when I though there was none.

What you describe above seems like a truly momentous day, in my opinion. On multiple levels.

[Calibri]

Thanks for the insight UpperCu, it was a nice reminder!

In other news, H did not call at lunch like he promised, which is what I anticipated. I decided to remain silent and see what would happen. He sent me a few text messages and I responded back. Later this evening he told me he liked talking about positive stuff and asked if we could have a conversation via text message. He asked a few things about what was going on with me: I was upbeat, told him about my PRs with crossfit, every day blah blah blah. He seemed (for what I could tell over text) genuinely impressed with my progress (yeah dude, life changing event + working out lots of frustration = lots of gains) and, surprisingly validated the hell out of me. God, he's probably DBing me.

I asked him about what was going on with him, and we chatted for a few more minutes. I wrapped it up and said it was nice talking to him tonight, he's aid the same and we left it at that.

Things I did differently today:
- I struck with my goal of letting him contact me.
- although I was slightly annoyed with him not calling, I kept it to myself and went on about my day. I did not bring it up at all. In fact, I planned my evening as if I wouldn't hear from him and was shocked when I did.
- I was agreeable to his terms of the conversation (keeping it positive, remaining via text instead of on the phone)
- I remained patient because I saw that he was trying, with the conversation.
- I remained up beat and kept it short and sweet.

So. One positive interaction in the books. Here's hoping for another.

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In other news, last nights conversation really helped my PMA. People today remarked that I seemed more upbeat and in good spirits. I don't know, it was just nice to be acknowledged for once.
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LAbug - I'm working on my list of 180s. I'm really digging deep and examining things.

[TLEE86]

C,

Really happy you and your H had a positive convo today- that's awesome. Even more awesome is that you are making gains at CF instead of just sulking and not working out so glad you're still keeping with your routine. Don't take this the wrong way, but when I put imaginary faces to names here on DB-yea creepy I know, for you I picture Camille Leblanc-Bazinet. "I pick things up, I put them down" How awesome was she this year at the games?!

Keep up the good work, only caution I have for you is that more likely than not, your H will backslide a little when things are going well for X days... It's important for you to NOT backslide with him and do something crazy that breaks all DBing rules again he will backslide but if you keep doing the right stuff like you are, he'll keep coming forward. (I need to take my own advice)

Anyways, happy for you, and hopefully tomorrow is another good day!
Oh, and I think I'm going to do what you did and make a list of things that I do differently when things go well. Seems very useful!

[TLEE86]

Oh, and the fact that your H is actually interested and validated your stuff, I think is great. Seems like he is slowly turning around. My W is starting to ask about my day but then when I tell her, she ignores it. So IMHO, your husband seems to be getting a little better

[Ile Guy]

Same here... keep plugging away and keep up the PMA!!!

[Calibri]

There must be something in the water. SIL texted me to tell me that BIL (H's brother) dropped the bomb on her yesterday. Similar complaints about her that H has about me (controlling, manipulative). Almost eerily the same wording. The only difference? Her H hasn't walked out on her, admits that he's depressed, and has expressed a willingness to work on their relationship. She's pretty devastated. I've been listening, trying my best not to try to fix the situation (a 180 from my list that I've yet to publish), and offering support the way she offered me support when this all started happening three months ago.

She asked me what we were thinking when we married our H's, knowing that they had the problems they had. My response? We thought that love was enough and could overcome anything. That we both that we were amazing women who could counteract and heal any demons they have from their childhood.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I might do both.

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Meanwhile, Christmas Eve is tomorrow (as if we all aren't painfully aware of the date) and I'm feeling pretty low. Stinging a little from H's lack of follow through to his lunch offer (which I expected wouldn't manifest). Stinging that H hasn't even inquired about my holiday plans, despite the fact that I've asked about his. Stinging about the whole thing. I know I shouldn't lose sight that H appears to be making small progress. That he hasn't file for D. That he's moved from not wanting to work on the R to "not knowing what he wants" (which, is not really better, but I digress.) It's still stings. Because I thought this would be better at latest by now. And it's not. And it blows. Hard.
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But I will have a good Christmas, with or without him. Because I have awesome plans for good food with the family. Away from it all.
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Whatever.

Onward.

[Mozza]

Calibri,

I think your H might have passive aggressive behavior. I suggest it because I have it. My IC diagnosed it very early and thinks that my case is pretty serious. This means that I avoid expressing my needs and end up avoiding situations that make me uncomfortable. In the case of responding to texts, I will look at it, not knowing exactly what to respond or just how to phrase it and I'll move on to an easier task. The text will make me feel guilty, but I can't go back to it. I've this anxiety, like the text has barbed wires around it. It's possible your H realized he couldn't go to dinner with you and his brain told him that saying so would get him into more trouble, so better to respond later. And later. And later.

We people with passive aggressive behavior do not think like everyone else. We have all this anxiety bottled up because we can't just say "Thanks but no." or "Can I please have X?" The fear of rejection, of upsetting people, of dealing with an awkward situation is strong. According to my IC, I learned it as a kid because the other ways of getting what I want (like asking for it) didn't work.

It's not a mental illness, but you can treat it as such: the default setting of your H. It's subconscious, mind you, so it's not something you can control without a high level of awareness and even greater efforts. Just know that, for now, your H's behavior is likely to continue and it's not about you. Don't take it personally. Make do with it.

One good way is to avoid being a source of trouble when he expresses his needs and wants. Be a safe space, a place where he can tell you no or ask for something without seeing it blown up. It will lower his anxiety and make it easier for him to respond.

Hope this helps.

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PS: I see a lot of hope in your sitch. But you've got to learn to be patient. You want your H to act like an eager dog and run to you with affection and focus, while he's likely more like a cat that will decide slowly whether he gets anywhere near you. Sitting there and observing you. Turning his back. Stretching to take a sniff from afar. Etc. Your H is a different person from you and you need to understand that not so that he comes back, but so that you have a healthy R with him someday. I've read little of your sitch, yet I'm not surprised that he finds you controlling, considering the amount of criticism you've leveld at him here for not acting exactly like you would have or like you expect him to. Take a page from my book: do not criticize him ever. It was my W's main complaint, the reason why she left me, yet I haven't made ONE criticism to her since BD three months ago. It can be done.

[Calibri]

This means that I avoid expressing my needs and end up avoiding situations that make me uncomfortable. In the case of responding to texts, I will look at it, not knowing exactly what to respond or just how to phrase it and I'll move on to an easier task. The text will make me feel guilty, but I can't go back to it. I've this anxiety, like the text has barbed wires around it. It's possible your H realized he couldn't go to dinner with you and his brain told him that saying so would get him into more trouble, so better to respond later. And later. And later.

We people with passive aggressive behavior do not think like everyone else. We have all this anxiety bottled up because we can't just say "Thanks but no." or "Can I please have X?" The fear of rejection, of upsetting people, of dealing with an awkward situation is strong. According to my IC, I learned it as a kid because the other ways of getting what I want (like asking for it) didn't work.

It's not a mental illness, but you can treat it as such: the default setting of your H. It's subconscious, mind you, so it's not something you can control without a high level of awareness and even greater efforts. Just know that, for now, your H's behavior is likely to continue and it's not about you. Don't take it personally. Make do with it.

Mozza - your description hit the nail on the head with my H. He's even said something along the lines of not knowing how to respond to a text so he goes back to something else and then never comes back. He avoids conflict, so this gives me something to think about and look into. I just take people saying that they're going to do something, as a fact. Because it's what I do, personally. So when promises are made, and then there's not a follow through -- it annoys me.

One good way is to avoid being a source of trouble when he expresses his needs and wants. Be a safe space, a place where he can tell you no or ask for something without seeing it blown up. It will lower his anxiety and make it easier for him to respond.

Really working on this over the last couple of days. Which is what I attribute to having a good convo yesterday.

Hope this helps.

It does, actually -- thank you so much!
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But you've got to learn to be patient.

Oh trust me, I know. H is actually the first R I've ever shown patience with before -- which is sad yet telling at the same time. Before, the first time I was seriously annoyed or hit a road block with someone else -- *boom* they were gone. I didn't want to deal with it.

You want your H to act like an eager dog and run to you with affection and focus, while he's likely more like a cat that will decide slowly whether he gets anywhere near you. Sitting there and observing you. Turning his back. Stretching to take a sniff from afar. Etc. Your H is a different person from you and you need to understand that not so that he comes back, but so that you have a healthy R with him someday. I've read little of your sitch, yet I'm not surprised that he finds you controlling, considering the amount of criticism you've leveld at him here for not acting exactly like you would have or like you expect him to. Take a page from my book: do not criticize him ever. It was my W's main complaint, the reason why she left me, yet I haven't made ONE criticism to her since BD three months ago. It can be done.

I'll be honest, at first this comment rubbed me the wrong way. But then I pondered it, had a cookie, and thought about it some more. The thing I'm struggling with is the idea that I control/controlled my H. I view control as telling someone you can't do this, or you have to do that, which, believe it or not, were things I did not really do in my R with H. But I'm learning that things I've said, by expressing brutal honesty, my insecurities, H's insecurities, etc can be identified as controlling. Hell, at this point, I'm almost at the point where I believe opening my mouth is controlling. But if someone who hasn't read my thread (along with the other people who do read) identify me as controlling or critical (which I fully 100% own up to, critical that is), then obviously there's a problem.

The thing is, I've always been critical of people. I don't know where it comes from -- but I imagine it's manifesting for the same reasons why I have controlling tendencies. Lightbulb moment here: I'm probably critical of people, as a defense mechanism. Because if I have something negative to think or say about their behavior, then I'm not going to allow them to get close to me, so that way I won't get hurt. I dunno. Something to explore in therapy. Regardless, it's a deeply ingrained behavior that's going to take awhile to turn around.

I just get frustrated (clearly). Which is partly why I vented about it here. Also as an attempt not to vent at my H. I know I should work towards a point where I'm not irritated by it. I feel like I'm to blame for everything wrong in my M and I know, realistically, that's not the case. It just seems that sometimes H's walk away is justified or excused because of my behavior. And I can't change behavior that I didn't know was bothering H. When someone literally paints a picture that everything is fine, presents that as their truth, and lies when asked if everything is ok, you take them at their word. To learn that it isn't the case, is devastating. I know I'm in a pretty decent place right now, compared to others -- as my H is still talking to me, in therapy working on his issues, and is showing some regret for things said. But I'm still annoyed.

Because, you're right, H isn't reacting the way I think he should. Or rather, I would never, ever have done or handled problems the way H did. And I think that's what I'm irritated about.

I don't know where I'm going with this.

Anyway -- thank you for the insight and for the thought provoking comment. It's giving me something to think about it.

[Mozza]

Hi Calibri,

I'm glad if it could help you think. Have you read the article "What Shamu taught me about a happy marriage" in the NYT? There's a nice section about the "American husband" that taught me that each person is like an animal with characteristics that can't be changed. A tiger will hunt, a fish will swim.

Hell, at this point, I'm almost at the point where I believe opening my mouth is controlling.

Same here: it feels like anything I say is critical. I'm paranoid about everything I say and it's exhausting. I imagine it's a step on the path to seeing the difference between criticism and the rest.

Our challenge is to learn these new behaviors, not just fake them until our WAS come back. Otherwise, our WAS are right to be wary of our changes, to see them as controlling device to bring them back and no more.

You're very lucky that your H is engaging so much and even requesting positive interactions. It's the first step to reconciliation, so enjoy it. Re-read DR perhaps to make sure you act well. My advice is only to keep it at that level: fun, simple, etc. for a while.

[TLEE86]

Thanks for the talk and calming me down earlier, it actually went better than I thought. Hope alls well on your end tonight