Elsa in Piecing (knock on wood)

[Calibri]

I agree. Have some fun. Laser tag, people watching in wal-mart. Bowling.

While it's great that y'all are talking and that's what brought you together, do something different - it'll give you something to talk about other than the R and give new memories.

[Elsa]

I think I surprised H at MC counseling this week. The first question from the MC is always, "How you are doing as a couple?" and this week I stepped in first and said, "Really well."

H said, "That's not what I was expecting you to say!" and the MC asked me to elaborate. I said that two weeks ago, we had a difficult session where H told me that he could do what I needed him to do, and then over the past two weeks he proceeded to do it any way. We all laughed and agreed that's an example of when it's better that H didn't keep his word.

H said he had no idea what he had done differently and is worried that the good place won't hold since he doesn't know what caused it in the first place. The MC said that it's possible that it's my impression that's changing, not his behavior, or that it's some of both. (I think it's probably both.)

The MC asked me to say what H had done differently, and I told H that I felt like (for the most part) he was listening to me when we talked, trying to validate how I felt, and showing tenderness toward me. H said that he was trying to be more gracious because that is the person he wants to be.

I'm feeling pretty optimistic at the moment . . .

[Elsa]

What to do with a WAS who says, "I want to move the ball forward" but then doesn't seem to follow through?

I decided to take your advice. On Wed, I texted him and asked if he would like to do something fun after D7 went to bed. He asked for a raincheck for Thurs because he was tired. I said, "Sure!" and suggested that we play a game together. He wrote back and said that sounded like fun.

On Thurs he came over. He thought I was joking about the game and that I meant I wanted to have sex. We played a game anyway and then had sex (because hey, I'm not going to turn that down!). Afterward, I told him that I had something positive that I wanted to share with him because I didn't get a chance to say it during the MC session on Tuesday -- namely, that in addition to appreciating the change in how he was interacting with me, I was also appreciating the change in how frequently he was initiating those interactions. He thanked me for telling him but didn't gush. He left shortly afterward.

The next day I went down the dangerous path known as mindreading and started to worry that his lack of enthusiasm meant that he wasn't planning to maintain our current level of contact (or worse -- that I was being placated again while he planned his next move). I turned it over in my head all day and decided to see if he called me on his way home from work. The wrinkle was that I was going to have to call him anyway to talk about $ (our usual conversation on the 5th of the month). But, I thought I would see if he called first.

The good news is that he did call because he anticipated the money issue. Last month, I asked for less than usual (even less than our agreed range) because I was having a good month. This month, I asked for the full amount of our range. I asked H if he saw this as a setback and he said no, he was "trying to compartmentalize" this from our other issues.

Then, I asked if he wanted to do something the next day (Sat) while D7 was at an activity. He said he already had plans, but we could do something soon. I said that sounded good and that I wanted him to know how great it had been to see him so much during the past two weeks. I really thought that I was doing a 180 -- trying to praise rather than criticize -- but H didn't take it that way at all and instead proceeded to tell me that I had no business asking for anything from him when he called to offer me money.

We ended up on the phone for 2 hours. Abt 45 minutes in, it seemed like we'd reached a resolution point where we both felt like we'd been heard and I was getting ready to end the call when H said, "Just so you know, I'm at the bank depositing your check and I am VERY ANGRY about it." And then I got hit with so much spew -- I've not heard H get that angry in a long time. The good news is that I kept my cool and he did NOT hang up or try to withdraw from the conversation (although at one point I told him that it was not okay to speak to me that way and that I was going to put the phone down until he stopped).

To his credit, he apologized and then we talked for another hour or so and were able to have a somewhat productive conversation. At the end he said he loved me and that he wants to move the ball forward "off of square one." (Square one is our metaphor for the bad habits that we both fall into when we're trying to work on the R.) So I asked him what he needed and he said the weekend. I said that was fine but ... if the goal is to off square one, why is he asking to do the very thing that defines square one for him (withdraw from me)?

[Elsa]

Just be clear, the "but . . ." at the end of my post was in my head. It's not something I said to H. I told him to enjoy his weekend and he made plans for us to do something on Monday night.

[Elsa]

Not many changes to report on my front. We seem to be in a cycle where things are good for about 2 weeks and then not so good for the next 2 weeks.

We did have an interesting conversation about forgiveness at MC this week. H admitted that he is holding onto a few hurts and that he "doesn't know" how to let them go even though I have apologized. H asked the MC how to truly forgive. The MC said that it's specific to the hurt, but that if H didn't believe my apology that could be a reason why he isn't able to let it go. H agreed that may be the problem and said that we could talk about it "offline" because the session was ending.

Unfortunately, despite 2 planned attempts to have that conversation, we haven't been able to make any headway because H can't think of any past hurts outside of the Top 5 Greatest Hits (Hurts?) but he thinks it will be a great model for us to remedy hurts as they come up in the future! I asked H if there was a reason that he didn't want to try dealing with one of those Top 5 hurts and he acknowledged that he isn't ready to let them go because holding onto them protects him from further hurt. I admit (here) that I don't understand his logic here at all, but I validated and suggested that we try with one of mine instead.

I tend to think of myself as pretty "good" at forgiveness -- I think I can move forward and treat someone who has treated me poorly with kindness and love rather easily. But one thing I've realized lately is that, at least where H is concerned, my past hurts do influence how I react when the other person is hurting. I'm not able to be as compassionate if there's a similar, unresolved hurt of my own rattling around in there.

So, I told H about an incident that I've been holding onto for a while (which actually parallels on of his Top 5 very closely, and that may be why he doesn't fully believe my apology for that, because maybe it ISN'T 100% sincere) and he apologized. I'm not sure that I believe him, and this is in an interesting place for me to be in because I've never wondered whether or not the apology was sincere; I've just accepted it. Even now, I don't know how I feel, but I do think he made a genuine effort to understand and accept responsibility for his role.

[Maybell]

I really enjoy reading your thread because your H seems to be really putting the effort in. I can't imagine my H ever showing this much self-awareness, much less wrestling with this tough stuff. I wish you both all the best.

[sandi2]

Am I to understand you and H are separated?

[Mozza]

Elsa: One way to make a more believable apology is to start by paraphrasing what your H said, describing his hurt. It's like validating, but even closer to the original thought.

"When I went to see my parents in another state, you felt I didn't invite you because I wasn't proud of you or I never expected our relationship to last. You felt alone during that time and I didn't even contact you while I was there, making you feel even more like I wasn't there for you."

I'm making this up, but you see that it goes much further than "I'm sorry for making you feel bad when I went to visit my parents. It was not my intention." You need to give the other person the absolute conviction that you've heard them.

[Elsa]

Thanks, Maybell. It's important for me to remember that he's giving a lot under the circumstances, because I still get frustrated easily (although I don't usually direct my frustration at him).

It's funny -- as part of a marriage-building exercise we did recently, we had to think of a couple we know who has a worse marriage than us. We (independently) picked the same couple, and we both said that it was hard to think of many people we know have it worse than us right now. But the more I think about it, the more I feel like we are better off than many intact couples -- we're both trying hard to open up, share our feelings, and make changes to give each other a better M.

Recently, a client asked me why I don't wear a wedding ring even though I talk about my husband quite a bit. I told her that it is complicated, we are separated but working on things, and that I still try to speak positively about him to other people. I hadn't even realized that last bit until it came out of my mouth, but I think it's true and I think it's helping me control my negative emotions in a way that is more productive to working on the M.

Sandi, yes, we've been separated for about 6 months now.

Mozza, thank you for your suggestions! H is definitely the master of the "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt. That wasn't my intention!" style of apology. I'm not sure what my typical apology style is, but I'm trying some new things and I'll keep what you said in mind. I think feedback from H is critical, but that won't happen until he's willing to discuss the things he's still holding onto.

Did you know that the 5LL author has a similar book for apology languages? I did the online quiz and it seems that I definitely need the person to take responsibility and offer to make amends -- neither of which my H does naturally, but he was willing to role-play it with me the other night, which is nice.

[Mozza]

I didn't know about the book on apology languages. Very interesting, thanks.

Another thing that makes apologies believable is questions. Ask your H questions like "how long were you hurt? Did it relate to something else? How often do you think about it? What reminds you of it? When did you realize how much it hurt you? What should I have done?" When I'm asked questions like this, I feel a wave of optimism that the other person is really trying to get me and the apology is heartfelt.