Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 755
Z
Zelda09 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 755
Hi everyone, I am welcoming all help and advice if you have patience to read through this.

My H suffered a bad accident a few years ago while we were engaged. He's been on paid meds, through several surgeries. Even before that, our relationship was somewhat unstable, but I mostly attributed that to his quickness to going into a defensive-aggressive stance when I brought something to him I wanted to talk about. I think all his life he's complained about feeling 'pushed over' by other people, not just me.

And I was one heck of a talker. Had something to say about everything, even his thoughts and feelings. He told me for years I wasn't listening but I got tired and frustrated with hearing it...and told him I didn't want to be his counselor this past year, tried to point out that sometimes I had feelings and it wasn't all about him. I think deep down I just wanted him to be well adjusted (even before the accident, but we love who we love) and happy, and I was more interested in trying to get him thinking in ways I found acceptable than accepting him in all of his dark places. He didn't end up well adjusted at all, I think I contributed significantly to a sense of isolation and loneliness, and of course, depression.

This last year started going downhill badly, just about a year of marriage. He blocked my phone calls whilst pretending everything was fine between us, rationalizing it as it just being better for him. He would say things like that a lot, he didn't want to battle me. When I found out, I was angry for weeks. I mean, how do you do that? Just block your spouse bc you don't feel like dealing with them? We stopped talking about things, trying to meet in the middle. I just had enough of trying to bear the financial burdens and emotional heaviness of him, always telling me I didn't care about him, and I went all tough love and cold, trying to get him to find some independence for my sanity. He lost trust for me, feeling like I was disappointed and didn't respect him, and would yell things like, "you don't have my best interests in mind." My life changed forever when he had his accident, and I did everything I could to be there for him. Well, everything I could provide - I didn't listen and that's what he wanted most. But it hurt me and made me angry to hear these things. He was seeing a counselor but I'm not sure what good it's done. I wanted a family and in October we had a huge fight over it.

Our last argument was the way he was cussing at people, and I attacked him for it, he got mad that I couldn't see his side (I could, but was so embarrassed at the way he handled it), and he continued cooking for us but would sleep in the guest room. This lasted about two weeks. I'd ask for a hug, if he wanted to let our relationship slide downhill like this, he'd deny affection and say he didn't know what else to do. The last straw was one morning when he flipped me off while we were talking and I lost it, told him to find somewhere else to live. That afternoon, I kept hearing something he said about 'what would it look like to you if I found someone who cared about me and my problems' and I checked the phone bill. Most days I was at work he was texting an old female friend of his, he'd never even mentioned to me. He promised there was nothing sexual or anything else, but it felt like all the signs of an EA. He said there was nothing deceitful about it...anyway, that's stopped, the old friend decided she didn't want to be involved in this.

We had a counseling session a week later and the C heard each of us out and advised we separate when neither of us could say what we wanted. I had said I couldn't take more months of this. He said he was out of hope. He just didn't know. She prescribed two dates a week and a couple of assignments which we've done and we've been a total of 3x.

And it's felt like good productive work, like we're starting to connect. I have to get a hold of a lot, criticism, judgement, dumping my angry feelings on him instead of processing...he's found areas to work on, too, independence, assertiveness, self esteem, patience.

Some days he has stayed home and we both find reasons to spend time or go out. Some weeks he's been away. There's an interesting push pull dynamic, and when I look at when he withdraws again it seems it's out of his own warming feelings as much as me trying to get answers from him he doesn't have. In the last four weeks his walls have started coming down and he's listening and interested in my point of view, but is still saying there is no hope here and he doesn't know how we can work this out. He just wants to be left alone.

He's gone for the next six weeks now. It was a planned trip away, and we'd had a really good couple of days prior. Some of his anger and resentment for me is fading but my gut says that he doesn't know how to end this and that is what he resolved to do. He's never been one to initiate or act decisively if he isn't pressed, so although time is on my side, I feel like this could drag forever like this. He did express sadness that our date nights wouldn't continue when he left. And he's declined to call in for his counseling sessions while he's away.

I am trying my hardest to respect that he wants this time and silence, and focus in on me, GAL, the whole thing. I want to reach out to him sometimes, especially since his biggest complaint was that I couldn't meet his ENs, and I genuinely see it now, how I retreated. I don't want to push him further away during this time. The whole issue was I was always pushing my agenda, thoughts, etc and not open to his. I guess the hardest part is trusting that things might be mending with time alone, and that I'm not losing him through six weeks of this distance he's asked for while he figures himself out. He started taking anti-depressants a couple of weeks ago, too.

I know that if he is willing to work on our marriage, and have faith and some hope in life in general, work on the things he identified at our last session, we can do this. I am committed to becoming kinder and more open about a lot of things and removing my need to be heard as right in every conversation. He says the amount of change we need from each other is something that would take years. It's overwhelming to him.

So. What can I do in the next six weeks to show him the changes I'm working on, but without pursuing him about the relationship? I found a picture I wanted to text him, simple quote, "faith - it does not make things easy in makes them possible." Haven't sent it, no one gets themselves in trouble by saying nothing, right?

Outside perspectives appreciated. Very lost and confused right now.


Mid 30's
Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH
D 9/15; NC forever on

You can't DR your way out of abuse.



Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 12
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 12
Welcome to the board! You are at the right place. Here is my starting advice:

- You are not crazy or unique to feel anything you're feeling...read around the board and you'll find other stories and emotions similar to yours from which to draw on.

- Get at least Divorce Remedy and read it ASAP. Read it twice, even. Divorce Busting is the other core book, but a lot of its info is captured in DR.

- Make a signature in your profile like mine and others. It helps people help you.

- Especially pay attention to the vets on the board (rule of thumb, they have a registered date of 2012 or earlier). labug, uRworthy, Wonka, 25yearsmlc, sandi2, etc.

- Everyone's first post is always long, but until you're off moderation (minimum number of posts), post frequently and in short posts. This gets you off moderation quicker.


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 755
Z
Zelda09 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 755
Thank you, will do.


Mid 30's
Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH
D 9/15; NC forever on

You can't DR your way out of abuse.



Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Welcome to the board

Get out and GAL.

DETACH.

Believe none of what he says and half of what he does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 413
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 413
Hi Zelda,

First - sorry that you find yourself here. You'll find that there's alot of supportive people here who are going to something similar. Like me! I noticed alot of similarities between myself and you, and my H and yours. So I wanted to reach out and say hello.

Second - have you read the books? If not, read immediately.

Third - as card said -- listen to the vets should they post on your thread, or someone elses thread as well. Labug just posted on mine and gave me some much needed insight that's turned my thought process along to where it should be.

Fourth - read up on other people's threads and comment. It's the best way to show support and to get feedback.

Fifth - Follow Sandi's rules as they apply to your situation.

Sixth - Patience is key. And realize that you've been given a gift as Cadet says. This is a time to work on you.


M:32,H 32
T:10, M5
BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger
H Mental Illness Diagnosis: 4/15
Served D Papers: 10/15
Divorced: 11/15
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 755
Z
Zelda09 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 755
Thanks everyone. I've been reading those rules daily for self control...I see this come up on the threads a lot, the concern that detaching in an emotionally distant relationship could worsen things?


Mid 30's
Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH
D 9/15; NC forever on

You can't DR your way out of abuse.



Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 413
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 413
There were a few things I wanted to comment on -- but wanted to say hello first.

Originally Posted By: Zelda09
Hi everyone, I am welcoming all help and advice if you have patience to read through this.

My H suffered a bad accident a few years ago while we were engaged. He's been on paid meds, through several surgeries. Even before that, our relationship was somewhat unstable, but I mostly attributed that to his quickness to going into a defensive-aggressive stance when I brought something to him I wanted to talk about. I think all his life he's complained about feeling 'pushed over' by other people, not just me.


Do you have an idea where this comes from? What's the history behind this?
Quote:

And I was one heck of a talker. Had something to say about everything, even his thoughts and feelings.

Oh, me too. I've got something to say about EVERYTHING. I can relate. Why are you so vocal?

Quote:

He told me for years I wasn't listening but I got tired and frustrated with hearing it...and told him I didn't want to be his counselor this past year, tried to point out that sometimes I had feelings and it wasn't all about him.
Why did you think it was all about him? He complained that you weren't listening - were you?

Quote:

I think deep down I just wanted him to be well adjusted (even before the accident, but we love who we love) and happy, and I was more interested in trying to get him thinking in ways I found acceptable than accepting him in all of his dark places.


Define acceptable? What does that mean to you?

Quote:
He didn't end up well adjusted at all, I think I contributed significantly to a sense of isolation and loneliness, and of course, depression.


This is said very lovingly and very respectfully -- because I'm the same way -- but how is it a) your responsibility to make him well adjusted and b) your place to judge what is "well adjusted"? Seriously -- go look at my first thread and look at the conversation labug and I had two days about something similar.


Quote:
He blocked my phone calls whilst pretending everything was fine between us, rationalizing it as it just being better for him. He would say things like that a lot, he didn't want to battle me. When I found out, I was angry for weeks. I mean, how do you do that? Just block your spouse bc you don't feel like dealing with them?


How did he handle conflict before? Is this a new behavior since the accident or has he always been this way? People have different ways of dealing with conflict. My H avoids it at all cost. I dive head first into it. It's made it very difficult because we didn't learn to handle conflict in a constructive way that made both of us feel heard and respected.

Quote:

We stopped talking about things, trying to meet in the middle. I just had enough of trying to bear the financial burdens and emotional heaviness of him, always telling me I didn't care about him, and I went all tough love and cold, trying to get him to find some independence for my sanity. He lost trust for me, feeling like I was disappointed and didn't respect him, and would yell things like, "you don't have my best interests in mind."

Do you? I'm not trying to be rude. Can you identify ways he would feel that way?

Quote:
My life changed forever when he had his accident, and I did everything I could to be there for him. Well, everything I could provide - I didn't listen and that's what he wanted most. But it hurt me and made me angry to hear these things.


What upset you about it? Also, it sounds like his accident was very hard on you. Did you seek any individual counseling to help you with your feelings?

Quote:
He was seeing a counselor but I'm not sure what good it's done.
That's between him and his IC. Not you. You may not see what it did, but your H may have gotten alot from it.

Quote:

Our last argument was the way he was cussing at people, and I attacked him for it, he got mad that I couldn't see his side (I could, but was so embarrassed at the way he handled it), and he continued cooking for us but would sleep in the guest room. This lasted about two weeks. I'd ask for a hug, if he wanted to let our relationship slide downhill like this, he'd deny affection and say he didn't know what else to do. The last straw was one morning when he flipped me off while we were talking and I lost it, told him to find somewhere else to live.


Again, has he always acted this way -- or since the accident?


Quote:

And it's felt like good productive work, like we're starting to connect. I have to get a hold of a lot, criticism, judgement, dumping my angry feelings on him instead of processing...


How are you working on this?

Quote:
Some days he has stayed home and we both find reasons to spend time or go out. Some weeks he's been away. There's an interesting push pull dynamic, and when I look at when he withdraws again it seems it's out of his own warming feelings as much as me trying to get answers from him he doesn't have.


I think this is a bit of mindreading. Who knows why he's pulling away. Also, best advice I can give you....being three months in with a H that sounds alot like yours....do not push your H for answers right now. He doesn't have them. You'll likely get upset that he doesn't have the answers, and it'll start blowing up. Accept what you know as truth. Be patient for the answers. Forcing him will likely get you a response that you don't want to hear. I'm lucky as hell my H hasn't filed for legal separation/divorce yet (partially because he can't until we've been separated a year,) because I pushed for answers. Hard. I wanted to know why he hadn't filed, when he was going to file, what it meant if he haven't filed, did he miss me, love me want to work on it, etc. Looking back, I'm embarrassed at a) how I acted b)how needy I was and c) and very thankful he didn't tell me to STFU (well, actually he did. On our anniversary. Banner moment, let me tell you.) but hasn't filed or blocked me from contacting him.

Quote:

In the last four weeks his walls have started coming down and he's listening and interested in my point of view, but is still saying there is no hope here and he doesn't know how we can work this out. He just wants to be left alone.


I keep reading alot about you. But what about him? Are you listening to him? There's a pattern - he keeps articulating that he wants to be heard. Again, are you listening?

Quote:

He's gone for the next six weeks now. It was a planned trip away, and we'd had a really good couple of days prior. Some of his anger and resentment for me is fading but my gut says that he doesn't know how to end this and that is what he resolved to do. He's never been one to initiate or act decisively if he isn't pressed, so although time is on my side, I feel like this could drag forever like this.


Ok. I get this. I feel/felt that way about my H sometimes. Feel like he doesn't know how to end it, or he's just stringing me along until he won't look like the bad guy. But I'm learning not to look into things like that because my H doesn't know what he's thinking half the time, and I sure as hell don't either. It's buying trouble.

Quote:

He did express sadness that our date nights wouldn't continue when he left. And he's declined to call in for his counseling sessions while he's away.


Sounds positive about the date nights. I wouldn't read into declining the call into c sessions.

Quote:

I am trying my hardest to respect that he wants this time and silence, and focus in on me, GAL, the whole thing.


This will be very hard, but it's imperative that if he's asked for time and silence that you give it to him.

Quote:
The whole issue was I was always pushing my agenda, thoughts, etc and not open to his.


Why is this? Why is it so important to you that your voice and your agenda be heard?

Quote:
I guess the hardest part is trusting that things might be mending with time alone, and that I'm not losing him through six weeks of this distance he's asked for while he figures himself out.


If you haven't read Maybell's latest post (the title has the word lighthouse in it) you should. She came to a very powerful conclusion the other day that resonated with alot of us. You could also reframe your situation in your mind instead of six weeks where you could loose him...to six weeks where you can work on yourself, to become a stronger person for yourself and within your M.

Quote:

I know that if he is willing to work on our marriage, and have faith and some hope in life in general, work on the things he identified at our last session, we can do this. I am committed to becoming kinder and more open about a lot of things and removing my need to be heard as right in every conversation. He says the amount of change we need from each other is something that would take years. It's overwhelming to him.


It probably will. I'm not saying this to be a negative nancy. People constantly change and situations evolve. Change doesn't happen overnight. Nor does it stick overnight. It's a constantly evolving process. And if he's overwhelmed -- he's going to go at it on his timeline. What he's comfortable with. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Quote:

So. What can I do in the next six weeks to show him the changes I'm working on, but without pursuing him about the relationship? I found a picture I wanted to text him, simple quote, "faith - it does not make things easy in makes them possible." Haven't sent it, no one gets themselves in trouble by saying nothing, right?


Respect his wishes. If he asked for silence and space -- give it to him. If you guys have contact, listen to what he's saying. Don't ask for answers. Don't press him. Don't push. Listen and let it evolve.


M:32,H 32
T:10, M5
BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger
H Mental Illness Diagnosis: 4/15
Served D Papers: 10/15
Divorced: 11/15
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,008
G
gan Offline
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,008
Hi Zelda, Sorry that you are going through this. It's tough, isn't it? Keep posting and reading here. There are many fine folk who are going through/have been through similar situations and can provide some insights and alternative points of view.

I relate to a lot of your story (and Calibri's). Card and Calibri have covered the basics. The additional thing I wanted to add is to focus on YOU. How are YOU doing through all this? A month into separation and I was still struggling to eat and sleep and I swear gravity was just too difficult to fight some days. First things first, do what it takes to get YOU on track. Be kind to yourself, pamper yourself, do things to make you feel food. Start from this place. I've committed to yoga and daily mindfulness practice as ways to try to keep me a little more grounded, and find that they are working well for me.

In terms of listening - that was something my H said to me as well, and like you I used to get PO at the fact that he accused me of this when I knew I *was listening* (I could repeat back what he said). 6 months down the track - and lots of reading and reflection later - I realize the issue was that I wasn't hearing what he was trying to say. I'm really trying to curb my tendency to respond with my opinion or how I feel about a situation and rather acknowledge and validate what he is saying. Unfortunately I don't see him much so it's hard to practice. Anyway, not sure if this is an issue for you. I just wondered if by posting this it might help bring a different perspective to you. If so, there is a good validation cheat sheet on these boards. The book "Non violent communication" is also pretty good.


H 37 Me 36
Together 15 years
Married 5 years
No kids
BD Apr 2014
H moved out 2 Jun 2014
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 755
Z
Zelda09 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 755
Calibri -

To answer some of your questions, neither H or me have great family histories. We've even talked about why we say and do the stupid things we do and how it all goes back. I think for him, he didn't have a lot of emotional support from his parents and as a huge introvert, this craving for connection is huge, sometimes so vast it seems needy. Me, I was raised by a narcissist who was big into shaming and over-praising. So as long as I get to be critical and always right, I'm not vulnerable. I think that's why I insist on my truth as THE truth. We've had some counseling to identify these things, but counseling falls short to change needs and behaviors when done infrequently and when its so much easier to point fingers at each other.

I did listen, but as so many of you have related to, I didn't 'hear' and validate. My own stuff was always in the way, because I just had to be right about it all. Some of the stuff he said scared me and I withdrew from it, out of fear, fear that he was always going to have hopeless feelings if I 'enabled' a lot of what I heard as poor-me, everyone is against me kind of stuff. I NEVER gave him the message it was ok to be hurting and to feel his feels. He wrote me a really well articulated letter a week before the bomb about this, that he wanted to get to better places but I had to 'sit' with him where he was and walk beside him, I couldn't just dump solutions and articles about being positive at his feet and expect he was going to say 'oh, ok. You're right.' The best I ever did was to shut up and just go sit by him and hold his hand. But inevitably he'd say something that just sounded so freaking crazy to me and I'd get in the way again, protesting what I thought was not healthy or a right way to look at whatever. No, it shouldn't have been my job to define acceptable. But I thought if I called out his self-defeating thoughts, or the bullying stuff he'd sometimes do, I was helping.

IC revealed that although he's nothing like my alcoholic abusive father, he offers a lot of the same instability for me. There's a certain dynamic we get used to and seek all our lives I guess.

When we first started dating, he put a lot of emphasis on finding stability with a partner, which of course I rejected. You gotta be stable. I feel like he always wanted this counselor type of unconditional love, and I am still working on why that thought repels me so much. Normal, healthy love has some of this truth to it.

The best interests thing - if you can remember Robin Williams' counselor roll from Good Will Hunting and the over-bearing math professor that was trying to help Matt Damon out - the fights they would get into about what was best for Will - well, guess which one was me. That's what he meant and I think I finally got it about a week ago when I saw the movie.

Working on me - identifying ways, even with friends, I can probe deeper and listen harder, ask questions instead of always making statements - develop some genuine curiosity and enjoy learning to connect on these levels. I've actually GAL, a lot of it, so I'm keeping up the things that make me happy. (This was another point, between all my jobs and activities, he didn't feel I wanted to be home with him. I sort of didn't with a year's worth of apathy and resentment that had built up between us.) I'm reading a lot on processing emotions, identifying them and sitting with them mindfully (as opposed to panicked calls to girlfriends and spewing them all over my H).

H has always had his issues, behaviors. I would have dumped him ages ago, but I was always impressed with his level headed and deep desire to self-improve, and he's done the work through the years where he could. But the accident amplified a lot of what was there and he's got a right to be scared about addiction to his drugs, years of future surgeries and increasing pain and possibility of work. I've been criticizing him for not blowing past this and adopting the attitude of determination I think I would have in his position. And he wants that, but he's been telling me for months he needs someone to talk to, someone who cares. I thought he was just a broken record saying this stuff, but I look back through emails and text messages - I shut him down so many times.

I am doing a good job giving him his space. Our C told us that on our dates we should be trying to talk about the hard stuff, and he actually seemed to enjoy those conversations, connecting, and would extend our dates. We watched The Theory of Everything on one of them, ended up crying our eyes out and holding each other for a long time, talking about the similarities in our lives afterward. It's only been in the last month we've started validating each other again. So even though he's asking for this space I'm thinking we have hope, even though he's saying he has none that we can change or he doesn't know how we can work this out - at least he's stuck on that question.

Last night was hard. I was with friends, we were saying goodbye, and laughing hysterically about something and suddenly I found myself sobbing. Never had that happen before. Embarrassing.


Mid 30's
Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH
D 9/15; NC forever on

You can't DR your way out of abuse.



Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 755
Z
Zelda09 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 755
Ganb8te - I read your posts with great interest. Is there a forum for WAHs?

I am so relieved to have found this community. So much of the searching I did before would bring me to articles for men about emotionally connecting with wives and a lot of outdated gender notions that just didn't work for my situation.

I'm going to look for the validation cheat sheet. I hate to say this, but I think I've got to book learn this stuff and treat it like a new hobby before it's even going to be close to 2nd nature.

But hey, on the bright side not eating has got be back into the jeans I wore in college. Neighbor told me I had great legs yesterday in one of the most awkward encounters ever. Silver linings everywhere.


Mid 30's
Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH
D 9/15; NC forever on

You can't DR your way out of abuse.



Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard