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So, my first thread is locked.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2510521#Post2510521

--

Pulling my last post over:

"Because I'm a tough gal to love. I have crazy family members, I could go crazy too, I'm a smart ass, tough, stubborn, opinionated woman who wants what she wants. Add on to the fact that I don't like to cook. I don't view myself as a catch. Sure, I'll talk myself up, but deep down, I don't see how anyone else could love me, if my H couldn't/can't."

Ok, I said this two days ago, and I'm going to call myself out. This is BS. I am a great catch. I'm a good looking, smart, fun, funny, adventurous, passionate, creative, dedicated woman. When I love, I love with everything that I have. I'm devoted and loyal. No. I don't cook. Yes, I'm a pain in the ass. Yes, I am flawed. But I am absolutely worth it. Absolutely.

[censored] that negative thinking.

Carry on, Friday.


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Originally Posted By: Calibri
I don't see how anyone else could love me, if my H couldn't/can't.


Calibri, yes this is total BS. Glad you see that now. smile



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Hi Calibri, this is like you say, a whole lot of similarities with us and our sits.

I started going to IC about a year ago for anger and got some of the best advice - all that anger is a bandage for a lot of hurt. As a little kid it's effective coping, the cognitive distance, withdrawal, all that fun stuff that makes us the strong women we are...but that sword has a double edge to it. I'm working on mine, learning (trying to) see that being soft and open is its own kind of strength. To trust and be vulnerable, not just when I'm hysterically crying.

I really appreciate you reaching out to me. Sorry about all of the grief you're going through.

It's funny to read my own post and imagine someone else wrote it - it seems so obvious, the meds, the people issues, the temper (though my H made great strides on controlling his over last several years when I told him how much it bothered me), the red flags are all over. And I know I would read this stuff normally like, "get the @#$% out of there, you deserve to be with someone healthy, you're not a savior." But I don't believe in throwing people away as long as they're willing to work.

The peace may be in reminding myself constantly that his decision to work is something I may be able to influence, (and I've always been the cheerleader for this relationship) but even if I could do and say all the perfect things, or not do and say any of them - for this to be a better relationship, he will have to make the decision to be here, all by himself and stand by it, otherwise we'll end up here again. I mean, getting back the same mess that's been sucking my soul out all year is not what I want.

If you find that Detaching for Dummies book, let me know. smile


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Thank Calibri for checking up on me. You don't know how much I appreciate it!!!!!


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Step right up folks as I share with you, a cautionary tale. In which Calibri, tries to embrace and show vulnerability, and instead looks like an insecure And nagging LBS and breaks AAAALLLLLL DB rules.

Yeah. So, I decided to be spontaneous and invite H out for dinner tonight. Even sweetened the deal by promising a quick dinner and no R talks. I send the text.

He responds back saying he's very busy at work doing some horrendous sounding task, and that he probably will have to work late and skip some Xmas holiday thing he was planning on going to, suggested us having lunch as an alternative later this weekend but he would let me know later but thanked me for the invite.

I text back saying I didn't realize he had other plans and that it sounded like a stressful day and no worries either way. Just let me know. He said will do.

And I don't hear back from him. Which, honestly? Annoys the [censored] out of me because, how hard is to respond to a text message? Add to the fact that yesterday H had promised me that he would stop dropping the ball and be better about responding to texts. So I sent a message saying I was starving, and had he had a chance to decide, because I was hungry.

He responded that he had just left work and decided to stop in at the holiday party after all, since it was just down the road. Told me to go ahead and eat, but he "appreciated the invite tho." I asked if it was a work party. No, it's for the new gym he goes to occasionally. Now, for the record, I'm not mad that he went to the party. I'm mad that he didn't let me know he was going to the party and not going to accept the offer for dinner. Ok, I'm a little mad at the fact that he's going to the party because this is the second time he's told me that he was busy with work and couldn't talk to me or, in this case, go to dinner, but later went and worked out or did something else. Just be honest and say you don't want to talk/see me.

This is where I should've said - ok, have fun at the party. Goodnight!

We know that didn't happen.

So. I decided (now to my horror) to express how I felt in a calm manner instead of bottling it up and blowing up later. So I said that I wish he had let me know earlier that he wasn't going to go to dinner, instead of dragging it out for hours and how my feelings were a bit hurt that he wouldn't accept a dinner invite with me because "it was a stressful late day at work", but went to the holiday party instead, and how this is the second time this has happened and I wish he could just have been honest with me from the get go.

*whack* that's the sound of me hitting myself with a 2x4.

He apologized saying that he should've let me know early, and that it came from a sincere place, but that he thought I had rescinded the offer by how I worded my text saying "no worries either way." I said, and "you responded back to that text with a will do." (OMG Calibri - STFU) There's a pause, and he apparently went back and read the text message and said," you're right, I did. I didn't look back earlier, I'm sorry I didn't mean to hurt you again."

This would be where I should've said, thank you, miscommunication happens, enjoy your party. But no. I want to show vulnerability. So I text back with, "it took a lot for me to work up the nerve to ask you to dinner tonight."

OMG. Please let the ground open up and swallow me whole.

He responds with, "I know and I threw it back in your face. That wasn't intended and the gesture isn't lost on me. I'd like to make it up to you, perhaps with lunch?"

And because I can't STFU. I said, "no, I don't feel that you threw it back in my face at all. It's just tough because I no longer am first priority in your life anymore and while I realize my invite was last minute and you had other plans it's just hurtful that you chose a holiday party with people you barely know vs dinner with your wife. I know that you're doing what you want and need to do with your life right now. I don't understand it all, but I do respect it. It just [censored], especially with your promise yesterday not to leave me hanging."

I mean, could I be any more unconfident, insecure, needy and lay on the guilt (which was not my intention, but I realize can be interpreted as such)? OMG.

He responds with, "I'm already beating myself up over that. As soon as I saw your message I went, '[censored], I did it again." Me: "I really am not trying to make you feel bad, I promise. I'm just trying to articulate how I feel in a calm manner instead of letting it fester and blow up in anger. Him: "I'm sorry be hurt you again, you took a gamble and I appreciate it. I'm sorry. Maybe we can have lunch tomorrow or something."

I thanked him for his apology and the convo ended shortly after.
-----
I can't even with myself. While I realize the conversation could've been worse, I didn't paint myself in the best light. I probably missed a chance to validate him - like, "I'm sure the party will be fun, a great way to blow off steam after a stressful day." Or something like that. Which he would've side eyed but would've been better than my needy, feeling driven Drabble in which I've somehow guilt tripped my WAH into taking me to lunch as an apology for not wanting to accept a last minute invite to spend time with me.

I. Can't. Even.

----
On the plus side? The old H would've immediately driven home and done what I wanted. Good for him for doing what he wanted for a change.

---
Be gentle with me.





Last edited by Calibri; 12/20/14 03:52 AM.

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Not going to beat you up about it because you're giving yourself a hard enough time about it as is. Doing this by phone so bear with me...it's hard to quote on the phone

RE: "how hard is it to respond to a text"

We both struggle with this and I've seen it on your thread and mine several times. Again we have to both remember not to have any expectations the only expectation we should have is that they won't respond. You yourself told me that when you feel the convo is about to end or is stalling, just end it quick so you're not left waiting for an answer that may never come. Case in point tonight when you're H said "will do" and left it at that

RE: H promised he wouldn't drop the ball anymore

Again, have no expectations. Actions over words. My W always ends our phone calls with ok well I'll text you later tonight and rarely ever does. It always just gets my hopes up and reality soon comes banging on the door

RE: H went to party instead of dinner with me

H associates you with stress and confusion because he simply does not know what to do about you're situation or even himself right now. Going to the dinner with just acquaintances or coworkers is just a way to blowoff steam without having to possibly talk about R/M. In the future, you obviously won't let this happen again, but try and remember that if he does go to a party like this it my pick up his mood a little bit which in turn will make him happier and want to talk to you more. He's depressed, so the fact that he's going out is a good thing and he's no longer hiding in his hotel bat-cave.

Bottom line, you didn't screw it up too bad. It could have gone worse and there will always be setbacks in this process. Just don't have too many of them. If you do go to lunch with him don't bring up tonight's conversation and if he does brush it off gently. Just have fun at lunch and just be YOU! Just my thoughts.


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Originally Posted By: TLEE86

We both struggle with this and I've seen it on your thread and mine several times. Again we have to both remember not to have any expectations the only expectation we should have is that they won't respond. You yourself told me that when you feel the convo is about to end or is stalling, just end it quick so you're not left waiting for an answer that may never come. Case in point tonight when you're H said "will do" and left it at that

i feel like I can give out semi-good advice but can't seem to follow it. I should've just let it go, or simply said later in the evening: "hey, got hungry couldn't wait, hope your day ended better."

Quote:


Again, have no expectations. Actions over words. My W always ends our phone calls with ok well I'll text you later tonight and rarely ever does. It always just gets my hopes up and reality soon comes banging on the door


Hope is a four letter word. Having no expectations is better.

Quote:


H associates you with stress and confusion because he simply does not know what to do about you're situation or even himself right now. Going to the dinner with just acquaintances or coworkers is just a way to blowoff steam without having to possibly talk about R/M. In the future, you obviously won't let this happen again, but try and remember that if he does go to a party like this it my pick up his mood a little bit which in turn will make him happier and want to talk to you more. He's depressed, so the fact that he's going out is a good thing and he's no longer hiding in his hotel bat-cave.


You know, the moment after I sent the text I immediately thought it was a bad idea. Because now he's pressured with going and possibly facing R talks, even though I promised none. Or saying no and looking like a dick and disappointing me. So, it was a lose/lose either way. I'm debating.....should I acknowledge that I put him in a lose lose situation and apologize or should I just stfu?

And, for the record? " Hotel bat cave" made be chuckle. I needed that.


Quote:

Bottom line, you didn't screw it up too bad. It could have gone worse and there will always be setbacks in this process. Just don't have too many of them. If you do go to lunch with him don't bring up tonight's conversation and if he does brush it off gently. Just have fun at lunch and just be YOU! Just my thoughts.


Duly noted. Thank god I'm leaving town next week for a few days and there won't be cell service. I'll be able to avoid more emotional Drabble that will be even more amplified by the holidays.


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Last thoughts for the night but IMHO, just STFU about apologizing- and I mean that in the nicest way possible. I think it was a mistake to even say hey wanna grab dinner, I PROMISE NO R/M talks. Because he may not have even thought that you would have any R/M talks but now that you made it a point to say we won't have any..it just makes him realize the possibility of you guys having that talk

If he says something like "hey sorry for letting you down last night," maybe then you just smile (if you're at lunch) and say "hey no worries, I'm sorry for putting you in a bad spot, let's just enjoy lunch!" And leave it at that. But I don't think it would be smart to be the one to bring it up first

Have fun wherever you're going!


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Originally Posted By: Calibri
Step right up folks as I share with you, a cautionary tale. In which Calibri, tries to embrace and show vulnerability, and instead looks like an insecure And nagging LBS and breaks AAAALLLLLL DB rules.

Yeah. So, I decided to be spontaneous and invite H out for dinner tonight. Even sweetened the deal by promising a quick dinner and no R talks. I send the text.

He responds back saying he's very busy at work doing some horrendous sounding task, and that he probably will have to work late and skip some Xmas holiday thing he was planning on going to, suggested us having lunch as an alternative later this weekend but he would let me know later but thanked me for the invite.

I text back saying I didn't realize he had other plans and that it sounded like a stressful day and no worries either way. Just let me know. He said will do.

And I don't hear back from him. Which, honestly? Annoys the [censored] out of me because, how hard is to respond to a text message? Add to the fact that yesterday H had promised me that he would stop dropping the ball and be better about responding to texts. So I sent a message saying I was starving, and had he had a chance to decide, because I was hungry.

He responded that he had just left work and decided to stop in at the holiday party after all, since it was just down the road. Told me to go ahead and eat, but he "appreciated the invite tho." I asked if it was a work party. No, it's for the new gym he goes to occasionally. Now, for the record, I'm not mad that he went to the party. I'm mad that he didn't let me know he was going to the party and not going to accept the offer for dinner. Ok, I'm a little mad at the fact that he's going to the party because this is the second time he's told me that he was busy with work and couldn't talk to me or, in this case, go to dinner, but later went and worked out or did something else. Just be honest and say you don't want to talk/see me.

This is where I should've said - ok, have fun at the party. Goodnight!

We know that didn't happen.

So. I decided (now to my horror) to express how I felt in a calm manner instead of bottling it up and blowing up later. So I said that I wish he had let me know earlier that he wasn't going to go to dinner, instead of dragging it out for hours and how my feelings were a bit hurt that he wouldn't accept a dinner invite with me because "it was a stressful late day at work", but went to the holiday party instead, and how this is the second time this has happened and I wish he could just have been honest with me from the get go.

*whack* that's the sound of me hitting myself with a 2x4.

He apologized saying that he should've let me know early, and that it came from a sincere place, but that he thought I had rescinded the offer by how I worded my text saying "no worries either way." I said, and "you responded back to that text with a will do." (OMG Calibri - STFU) There's a pause, and he apparently went back and read the text message and said," you're right, I did. I didn't look back earlier, I'm sorry I didn't mean to hurt you again."

This would be where I should've said, thank you, miscommunication happens, enjoy your party. But no. I want to show vulnerability. So I text back with, "it took a lot for me to work up the nerve to ask you to dinner tonight."

OMG. Please let the ground open up and swallow me whole.

He responds with, "I know and I threw it back in your face. That wasn't intended and the gesture isn't lost on me. I'd like to make it up to you, perhaps with lunch?"

And because I can't STFU. I said, "no, I don't feel that you threw it back in my face at all. It's just tough because I no longer am first priority in your life anymore and while I realize my invite was last minute and you had other plans it's just hurtful that you chose a holiday party with people you barely know vs dinner with your wife. I know that you're doing what you want and need to do with your life right now. I don't understand it all, but I do respect it. It just [censored], especially with your promise yesterday not to leave me hanging."

I mean, could I be any more unconfident, insecure, needy and lay on the guilt (which was not my intention, but I realize can be interpreted as such)? OMG.

He responds with, "I'm already beating myself up over that. As soon as I saw your message I went, '[censored], I did it again." Me: "I really am not trying to make you feel bad, I promise. I'm just trying to articulate how I feel in a calm manner instead of letting it fester and blow up in anger. Him: "I'm sorry be hurt you again, you took a gamble and I appreciate it. I'm sorry. Maybe we can have lunch tomorrow or something."

I thanked him for his apology and the convo ended shortly after.
-----
I can't even with myself. While I realize the conversation could've been worse, I didn't paint myself in the best light. I probably missed a chance to validate him - like, "I'm sure the party will be fun, a great way to blow off steam after a stressful day." Or something like that. Which he would've side eyed but would've been better than my needy, feeling driven Drabble in which I've somehow guilt tripped my WAH into taking me to lunch as an apology for not wanting to accept a last minute invite to spend time with me.

I. Can't. Even.

----
On the plus side? The old H would've immediately driven home and done what I wanted. Good for him for doing what he wanted for a change.

---
Be gentle with me.


A few questions about his whole episode,

Why? I thought you were in NC or going dark.

Do you see why going dark might be helpful?

Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?

Your need to control this is really strong.


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Calibri, we are two peas in a pod. And our Hs sound pretty similar too.

I think TLEE86 is on to something with his recommendation to stop apologizing. I am an over-apologizer, especially with my H, but a month or so ago I realized that it's actually hurting more than it is helping. I apologize in situations where I didn't actually do anything wrong, where no real conflict occurred, and (perhaps most fatally) where I have no real intention of changing my behavior. The first instance makes me weak, the second causes the situation to linger when it could have resolved quickly, and the third just sets my H up for disappointment.

You invited your WAH to dinner. It may not be the advice you'd get from veteran DBers, but it's not morally wrong either. If H apologizes again I'd respond just as TLEE86 suggests. Otherwise, I'd let it go -- for my own benefit as much as my M's.


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Calibri, so I'm forced to reread my own post to you because sometimes I don't even follow my own advice. Sorry if this is a semi-hi jack but I was curious your opinion on something.

You and you're H talked about your communication issues and you let him know how you feel and all that good stuff. That's where he made all those promises that were kinda sort of not really kept yesterday. I'm debating on having that same conversation with my W because it is literally irritating the (censored) out of me because really...how hard is it to answer a text. And these texts sometimes are just in the first few minutes of a conversation. I feel like we have very similar communication issues with our WAS. My question to you is...was it worth it to let him know how you feel even though he didn't really keep that promise?


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It really chaps my [censored body part] when H is slow to respond to texts, but when I step back and detach I realize that when I'm engaging in a healthy relationship with my phone (i.e., not obsessing over a reply from H), I don't respond to texts right away because I don't see them.

Case in point: I sent H a text earlier this morning abt plans for tonight and it bugged me that an hour went by and I didn't see a reply. Eventually I forgot about it and got busy doing other things (such as posting on this website!). I just went to check my phone; he texted back 2 hours ago with a question for me that I've now slacked in responding to. Oops.

Last edited by Elsa; 12/20/14 08:45 PM.

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Originally Posted By: TLEE86
. I think it was a mistake to even say hey wanna grab dinner, I PROMISE NO R/M talks. Because he may not have even thought that you would have any R/M talks but now that you made it a point to say we won't have any..it just makes him realize the possibility of you guys having that talk


Good point. Didn't think of it that way. Thanks for the insight.


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Quote:


A few questions about his whole episode,

Why? I thought you were in NC or going dark.


I thought I was too. And then he started initiating conversations. I actually hadn't had time to post it yet, but he had sent me a message saying that he was feeling better and was interested in talking and told me that he had realized that most of his anger he had misdirected at me. He told me that, I didn't "ruin him" like he had thought, and that he had ruined himself by not speaking up when things bothered him and that a lot of the things he blamed me for were actually his problems. And apologized. After the combo was over he said he felt it was a good talk and felt that it was one of many that we should be having.

So, perhaps foolishly, I took his conversation and expressed desire to talk more as an invitation.

Also, thinking back, he mentioned in MC that he hot pissed off and hurt when I gave him the silent treatment. So that + the above and I thought not going NC would be a good thing.

Quote:


Do you see why going dark might be helpful?


Oh yes. Trust me, I didn't even want to post about the convo I had, but I made myself do it got accountability, humility, and as an opportunity the right way to show vulnerability vs. an verbally emotional dump via text message.

Quote:


Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?

Your need to control this is really strong.


I want to be happy. I've always been honest with my H. That's why I initially told him how I felt. I didn't equate my honesty at the time with control. Looking back, I can see why it's perceived as such.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, it's a legit question. But the only way I see (from my viewpoint) of not being controlling is to basically stfu and not do anything?

I'm honestly struggling with this.

Last edited by Calibri; 12/20/14 09:41 PM.

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Elsa, I didn't apologize and haven't contacted him sense. I'll take Tlees advice if he brings it up but seeing as I haven't heard from him, I think its ok.

Good point on your other post about the phone and looking for distractions.

I'm actually feeling under the weather so I plan on turning my phone silent and netflixing it.


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Quote:
I'm not trying to be a smart ass, it's a legit question. But the only way I see (from my viewpoint) of not being controlling is to basically stfu and not do anything?


That may be true for right now.

When you go dark or NC, you do it for you. Early on in this everything we do is emotion based and focused on controlling to make the WAS come back. We need time to get emotions under control and create that new improved version or ourselves.

The control is so built in for you (as it was for me) you don't even see that it's happening. You have to get a handle on that and the only way to do it is spend some time with you, delving inside.

What's your plan, what are your 180s? I have a 180 suggestion and it's one I had to learn, every thought you have does not have to cross your lips. Slow down.

Last edited by labug; 12/21/14 03:07 PM.

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One other thing, during my S I made a goal for myself to not contact H for a period of time-4 weeks, 6 weeks, I can't quite remember now but I did it. I had a calendar on the the fridge and every day I didn't contact him I marked it on that calendar. It wasn't easy but it got easier after a while.

The important part was it helped me become stronger and have more respect for myself. I stepped off the roller coaster.

Set a goal. See it through.


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I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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^ Good idea. I need to do this.


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"Hope is a four letter word. Having no expectations is better."

DB isn't about a lack of hope. Hope is what even brings all of those posting here together.

In the book of Romans, Paul tells Christians "hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience."

Right there I think he speaks to what we all need to hear. Sure, we should relieve our spouses of the pressures we place on them with our expectations. Detachment helps us accomplish that. But the hope we have in our WAS and in our M is legitimate. You are here because you know your spouse loves you deep down, and is a good person whom you love too.

Although, we cannot see reconciliation happening from our "close up" perspective. I think every poster here is hoping in the same thing - that their WAS would acknowledge their love for them and put in the hard work it takes to rebuild the M. In reality, it only takes one person to begin to rebuild the M, and that is going to have to be you this time. And it's going to have to be you working what you are in control of... YOURSELF. You are human, therefore you have lots of issues to address.

Back to hope - we should set our sights down the road on what a reconciled M looks like. And on what a new M looks like. We all will be okay with or without our WAS. The detachment required to realize this is not us giving up, it's not a loss of hope. It's the beginning of something new and beautiful. LBS can start over fresh on themselves. Out of love, we give our WAS a new person they can fall in love with all over again by working on ourselves, GAL, and setting them free.

They are free to choose us, we hope they will, but our actions in DB lay a solid foundation where we can survive any outcome. If you do what you must to save your M, and your WAS doesnt choose to reconcile, you are still this amazingly attractive person who is primed and ready for the rest of your life. YOU are surging forward in YOUR life. Hoping your WAS will come to their senses, but knowing you don't need them or their approval for your life to thrive. Chances are, your desire for a strong, healthy M will bring you to the point where you can remarry and start a new life with a new spouse. D is painful, but it's not the end. Think of it as a bridge to your new life you must cross over.

Once you resolve that you really will be okay regardless of the outcome and regardless of things out of your control, your chances of happiness move from minimal to 100%.


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Interesting day.

Rando musings/journaling:
Talked to H. He said he wanted to open the door to conversing more, but had been afraid to do so in the past two weeks that he's been trying to talk. Primarily out of "fear" (his words, not mine) as he said his behavior towards me has been pretty bad and he doesn't have his anger completely under control and doesn't want to put me in a "emotionally abusive situation." Said that he was upset at how he had been acting. Then said he would text me later this evening to "talk" about random things. I knew by the way he had worded it that he would back out and he did. But, at least he texted me to let me know he was flaking out, instead of going silent like he normally does. Said he wants to talk on the phone on his lunch break tomorrow. I doubt that it will happen, as he's promised to "call me on his lunch break" for the last week. I don't know why he feels the need to call, as it clearly makes him uncomfortable but hesitate to suggest just talking via text. So I'm just going to sit back, have no expectations and stfu. He did say that he felt conversing more would help him learn to communicate about both positive and negative things and while he felt it would have to be taken day by day, he wanted to try it. I've decided this week I'll let him initiate any convos he might have and bite me tongue off if I have to. I don't plan on initiating anything except to wish him a merry Christmas before I go out of cell service range and let him know he has a pile of mail and a check at the house that he is free to pick up while I'm out of town.

I did a successful 180 today. Too bad it wasn't with my H.

My dad called me today. For those of you who may not be as familiar with my sitch: my dad is bi-polar, cheated on my mom, was in and out of my life for years, isn't always med compliant and in 2012 was a really big pain in my ass. I had to legally become medical power of attorney of his father (my grandfather) because of my dad's illness and I've spent the past two years being annoyed by the responsibilities and resentful of the situation I was put in.

So. Back to the convo. We hadn't talked since before the BD. I told him what was going on and prepared myself for what I thought was going to be a "stand by your man, he's obviously having some problems, he's depressed and can't help it speech." What I got was the opposite. My dad had total empathy for my situation and told me to let my H hit rock bottom. Said H will never be able to take care if himself, be a functional adult or deal with any problems he might have if someone is always trying to fix him. He said to pull back and let him figure it out. Told me common things that H might say to be blowing smoke up my ass (he nailed like two or three of them). Gave me suggestions on some books to read, some things to look out for, and told me to prepare my self, that while his parents were financially supporting him, H would probably not make any progress because his mother would have control over him (poor H and all the controlling women in his life) and make directly/indirectly influence him. He asked me what I wanted to do and I said I was thinking about things. He felt that I should move on, but understood why I might want to stay. He encouraged me, should we start piecing to find a good MC, because it was his experiences that MC's can hurt more than help.

He then told me he was impressed with my strength not only in dealing with my H but with the responsibilities of "caring" for my grandfather. He said that he was glad that I ended up being the one responsible because I had the strength, the resources, the patience (hahaha) to deal with it, "much better than he could." And then, HE THANKED ME. *insert jaw on the ground and me checking my phone multiple times to ensure that I was, in fact, talking to my Dad.* While I didn't thank him for acknowledging it, I told him in a non passive aggressive way (which is a 180 for me) that I was just doing what needed to be done. We winded the conversation down and he told me that he wanted to support me through this, as he could offer a different perspective, and he wanted to be there for me. His exact quote? "I couldn't buy you the pony you wanted when you were growing up, but I can support you, as much as you will let me, during this tough time." He then asked me if I remembered the pony situation, I said yes. (juicy drama, while dad was off meds and in a manic stage, he tried to buy me a pony after being AWOL for about a year. He told me to write out a check (I was seven at the time) to myself for how much I thought it would cost. I wrote 50,000. And signed his name. He later told my mom during a heated argument about not buying the pony, that I was trying to embezzle money from him and he had proof of a forged check. Yay manic phases!) he had a completely different version of the story, his truth. Normally I would've said, "yeahhhh about that - not the way it happened and would listed out a,b,c,d). Instead I remembered reading what LAbugs said to me and just kept my mouth shut (oh haiiii there 180) and followed up with, "I remember."

The conversation blew me away on multiple levels today. My dad showed a genuine concern for my well being, like he might actually love me. He wanted to be involved and this is not the first time he's asked to be involved in my life lately, so there might be some genuineness to his words. My dad never apologizes, so I was floored when he not only acknowledged that I was handling what he should've been doing for his dad, he thanked me for it. And you know what? Just with that conversation? I feel resentment being lifted. I feel less angry. All I wanted was to be acknowledged, and I got it. And I shut my mouth and didn't let my every thought pass my lips.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring, or the next convo. But all and all it felt pretty good.


Last edited by Calibri; 12/22/14 05:35 AM.

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Oh man, Calibri! That is one post. I am blown away on multiple levels, too.

You know, sometimes I gotta wonder if there is more to this whole thing than I realise. I too have had conversations with family members that I never would have had otherwise. And friends have come out of the woodwork when I though there was none.

What you describe above seems like a truly momentous day, in my opinion. On multiple levels.


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Thanks for the insight UpperCu, it was a nice reminder!

In other news, H did not call at lunch like he promised, which is what I anticipated. I decided to remain silent and see what would happen. He sent me a few text messages and I responded back. Later this evening he told me he liked talking about positive stuff and asked if we could have a conversation via text message. He asked a few things about what was going on with me: I was upbeat, told him about my PRs with crossfit, every day blah blah blah. He seemed (for what I could tell over text) genuinely impressed with my progress (yeah dude, life changing event + working out lots of frustration = lots of gains) and, surprisingly validated the hell out of me. God, he's probably DBing me.

I asked him about what was going on with him, and we chatted for a few more minutes. I wrapped it up and said it was nice talking to him tonight, he's aid the same and we left it at that.

Things I did differently today:
- I struck with my goal of letting him contact me.
- although I was slightly annoyed with him not calling, I kept it to myself and went on about my day. I did not bring it up at all. In fact, I planned my evening as if I wouldn't hear from him and was shocked when I did.
- I was agreeable to his terms of the conversation (keeping it positive, remaining via text instead of on the phone)
- I remained patient because I saw that he was trying, with the conversation.
- I remained up beat and kept it short and sweet.

So. One positive interaction in the books. Here's hoping for another.

---
In other news, last nights conversation really helped my PMA. People today remarked that I seemed more upbeat and in good spirits. I don't know, it was just nice to be acknowledged for once.
--
LAbug - I'm working on my list of 180s. I'm really digging deep and examining things.


Last edited by Calibri; 12/23/14 04:47 AM.

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C,

Really happy you and your H had a positive convo today- that's awesome. Even more awesome is that you are making gains at CF instead of just sulking and not working out so glad you're still keeping with your routine. Don't take this the wrong way, but when I put imaginary faces to names here on DB-yea creepy I know, for you I picture Camille Leblanc-Bazinet. "I pick things up, I put them down" How awesome was she this year at the games?!

Keep up the good work, only caution I have for you is that more likely than not, your H will backslide a little when things are going well for X days... It's important for you to NOT backslide with him and do something crazy that breaks all DBing rules again smile he will backslide but if you keep doing the right stuff like you are, he'll keep coming forward. (I need to take my own advice)

Anyways, happy for you, and hopefully tomorrow is another good day!
Oh, and I think I'm going to do what you did and make a list of things that I do differently when things go well. Seems very useful!


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Oh, and the fact that your H is actually interested and validated your stuff, I think is great. Seems like he is slowly turning around. My W is starting to ask about my day but then when I tell her, she ignores it. So IMHO, your husband seems to be getting a little better


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Same here... keep plugging away and keep up the PMA!!!


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There must be something in the water. SIL texted me to tell me that BIL (H's brother) dropped the bomb on her yesterday. Similar complaints about her that H has about me (controlling, manipulative). Almost eerily the same wording. The only difference? Her H hasn't walked out on her, admits that he's depressed, and has expressed a willingness to work on their relationship. She's pretty devastated. I've been listening, trying my best not to try to fix the situation (a 180 from my list that I've yet to publish), and offering support the way she offered me support when this all started happening three months ago.

She asked me what we were thinking when we married our H's, knowing that they had the problems they had. My response? We thought that love was enough and could overcome anything. That we both that we were amazing women who could counteract and heal any demons they have from their childhood.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I might do both.

--
Meanwhile, Christmas Eve is tomorrow (as if we all aren't painfully aware of the date) and I'm feeling pretty low. Stinging a little from H's lack of follow through to his lunch offer (which I expected wouldn't manifest). Stinging that H hasn't even inquired about my holiday plans, despite the fact that I've asked about his. Stinging about the whole thing. I know I shouldn't lose sight that H appears to be making small progress. That he hasn't file for D. That he's moved from not wanting to work on the R to "not knowing what he wants" (which, is not really better, but I digress.) It's still stings. Because I thought this would be better at latest by now. And it's not. And it blows. Hard.
--
But I will have a good Christmas, with or without him. Because I have awesome plans for good food with the family. Away from it all.
--
Whatever.

Onward.


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Calibri,

I think your H might have passive aggressive behavior. I suggest it because I have it. My IC diagnosed it very early and thinks that my case is pretty serious. This means that I avoid expressing my needs and end up avoiding situations that make me uncomfortable. In the case of responding to texts, I will look at it, not knowing exactly what to respond or just how to phrase it and I'll move on to an easier task. The text will make me feel guilty, but I can't go back to it. I've this anxiety, like the text has barbed wires around it. It's possible your H realized he couldn't go to dinner with you and his brain told him that saying so would get him into more trouble, so better to respond later. And later. And later.

We people with passive aggressive behavior do not think like everyone else. We have all this anxiety bottled up because we can't just say "Thanks but no." or "Can I please have X?" The fear of rejection, of upsetting people, of dealing with an awkward situation is strong. According to my IC, I learned it as a kid because the other ways of getting what I want (like asking for it) didn't work.

It's not a mental illness, but you can treat it as such: the default setting of your H. It's subconscious, mind you, so it's not something you can control without a high level of awareness and even greater efforts. Just know that, for now, your H's behavior is likely to continue and it's not about you. Don't take it personally. Make do with it.

One good way is to avoid being a source of trouble when he expresses his needs and wants. Be a safe space, a place where he can tell you no or ask for something without seeing it blown up. It will lower his anxiety and make it easier for him to respond.

Hope this helps.

----

PS: I see a lot of hope in your sitch. But you've got to learn to be patient. You want your H to act like an eager dog and run to you with affection and focus, while he's likely more like a cat that will decide slowly whether he gets anywhere near you. Sitting there and observing you. Turning his back. Stretching to take a sniff from afar. Etc. Your H is a different person from you and you need to understand that not so that he comes back, but so that you have a healthy R with him someday. I've read little of your sitch, yet I'm not surprised that he finds you controlling, considering the amount of criticism you've leveld at him here for not acting exactly like you would have or like you expect him to. Take a page from my book: do not criticize him ever. It was my W's main complaint, the reason why she left me, yet I haven't made ONE criticism to her since BD three months ago. It can be done.


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Originally Posted By: Mozza


This means that I avoid expressing my needs and end up avoiding situations that make me uncomfortable. In the case of responding to texts, I will look at it, not knowing exactly what to respond or just how to phrase it and I'll move on to an easier task. The text will make me feel guilty, but I can't go back to it. I've this anxiety, like the text has barbed wires around it. It's possible your H realized he couldn't go to dinner with you and his brain told him that saying so would get him into more trouble, so better to respond later. And later. And later.

We people with passive aggressive behavior do not think like everyone else. We have all this anxiety bottled up because we can't just say "Thanks but no." or "Can I please have X?" The fear of rejection, of upsetting people, of dealing with an awkward situation is strong. According to my IC, I learned it as a kid because the other ways of getting what I want (like asking for it) didn't work.

It's not a mental illness, but you can treat it as such: the default setting of your H. It's subconscious, mind you, so it's not something you can control without a high level of awareness and even greater efforts. Just know that, for now, your H's behavior is likely to continue and it's not about you. Don't take it personally. Make do with it.

Mozza - your description hit the nail on the head with my H. He's even said something along the lines of not knowing how to respond to a text so he goes back to something else and then never comes back. He avoids conflict, so this gives me something to think about and look into. I just take people saying that they're going to do something, as a fact. Because it's what I do, personally. So when promises are made, and then there's not a follow through -- it annoys me.
Quote:

One good way is to avoid being a source of trouble when he expresses his needs and wants. Be a safe space, a place where he can tell you no or ask for something without seeing it blown up. It will lower his anxiety and make it easier for him to respond.

Really working on this over the last couple of days. Which is what I attribute to having a good convo yesterday.
Quote:

Hope this helps.

It does, actually -- thank you so much!
----
Quote:

But you've got to learn to be patient.

Oh trust me, I know. H is actually the first R I've ever shown patience with before -- which is sad yet telling at the same time. Before, the first time I was seriously annoyed or hit a road block with someone else -- *boom* they were gone. I didn't want to deal with it.
Quote:

You want your H to act like an eager dog and run to you with affection and focus, while he's likely more like a cat that will decide slowly whether he gets anywhere near you. Sitting there and observing you. Turning his back. Stretching to take a sniff from afar. Etc. Your H is a different person from you and you need to understand that not so that he comes back, but so that you have a healthy R with him someday. I've read little of your sitch, yet I'm not surprised that he finds you controlling, considering the amount of criticism you've leveld at him here for not acting exactly like you would have or like you expect him to. Take a page from my book: do not criticize him ever. It was my W's main complaint, the reason why she left me, yet I haven't made ONE criticism to her since BD three months ago. It can be done.


I'll be honest, at first this comment rubbed me the wrong way. But then I pondered it, had a cookie, and thought about it some more. The thing I'm struggling with is the idea that I control/controlled my H. I view control as telling someone you can't do this, or you have to do that, which, believe it or not, were things I did not really do in my R with H. But I'm learning that things I've said, by expressing brutal honesty, my insecurities, H's insecurities, etc can be identified as controlling. Hell, at this point, I'm almost at the point where I believe opening my mouth is controlling. But if someone who hasn't read my thread (along with the other people who do read) identify me as controlling or critical (which I fully 100% own up to, critical that is), then obviously there's a problem.

The thing is, I've always been critical of people. I don't know where it comes from -- but I imagine it's manifesting for the same reasons why I have controlling tendencies. Lightbulb moment here: I'm probably critical of people, as a defense mechanism. Because if I have something negative to think or say about their behavior, then I'm not going to allow them to get close to me, so that way I won't get hurt. I dunno. Something to explore in therapy. Regardless, it's a deeply ingrained behavior that's going to take awhile to turn around.

I just get frustrated (clearly). Which is partly why I vented about it here. Also as an attempt not to vent at my H. I know I should work towards a point where I'm not irritated by it. I feel like I'm to blame for everything wrong in my M and I know, realistically, that's not the case. It just seems that sometimes H's walk away is justified or excused because of my behavior. And I can't change behavior that I didn't know was bothering H. When someone literally paints a picture that everything is fine, presents that as their truth, and lies when asked if everything is ok, you take them at their word. To learn that it isn't the case, is devastating. I know I'm in a pretty decent place right now, compared to others -- as my H is still talking to me, in therapy working on his issues, and is showing some regret for things said. But I'm still annoyed.

Because, you're right, H isn't reacting the way I think he should. Or rather, I would never, ever have done or handled problems the way H did. And I think that's what I'm irritated about.

I don't know where I'm going with this.

Anyway -- thank you for the insight and for the thought provoking comment. It's giving me something to think about it.


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Hi Calibri,

I'm glad if it could help you think. Have you read the article "What Shamu taught me about a happy marriage" in the NYT? There's a nice section about the "American husband" that taught me that each person is like an animal with characteristics that can't be changed. A tiger will hunt, a fish will swim.

Originally Posted By: Calibri
Hell, at this point, I'm almost at the point where I believe opening my mouth is controlling.

Same here: it feels like anything I say is critical. I'm paranoid about everything I say and it's exhausting. I imagine it's a step on the path to seeing the difference between criticism and the rest.

Our challenge is to learn these new behaviors, not just fake them until our WAS come back. Otherwise, our WAS are right to be wary of our changes, to see them as controlling device to bring them back and no more.

You're very lucky that your H is engaging so much and even requesting positive interactions. It's the first step to reconciliation, so enjoy it. Re-read DR perhaps to make sure you act well. My advice is only to keep it at that level: fun, simple, etc. for a while.


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Thanks for the talk and calming me down earlier, it actually went better than I thought. Hope alls well on your end tonight

Last edited by TLEE86; 12/24/14 05:07 AM.

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About those 180s...

A plan would be very helpful.


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Labug - they are coming tonight. Still out of town with spotty internet.

Meanwhile - Christmas 2014. If I never have to go through another Christmas like this one, it'll be too soon.


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Ok. 180's. Let's do this.


1. STFU. Seriously, just STFU.

2. 48-72 hour rule. Going to wait for 48-72 hours before bringing up anything that's angering me. And even then, I will evaluate if it's worth bringing up and potentially fighting over.

3. Stop trying to fix things. Unless specifically asked for advice, I'm staying the hell out of it. In the past I've felt the need to fix things for people and then I resented it later, because I felt they should be able to fix their own problems. Have already started this, especially with SIL's recent bomb drop in her own M. I'm itching to give her advice, to help her from going down the path of self destruction - but she hasn't asked, and it's not my business. Besides, trying to fix people or things is a) impossible and b) prevents people from learning about themselves.

4. STFU. Even more.

5. Listen more. Argue less. Stop saying everything that crosses my mind. If I feel so strongly that my opinion needs to be heard, wait 48-72 hours.

6. Stop controlling anything that isn't my self or my dog(s). I need to stay in my own lane and worry about myself. Unless someone else's actions are compromising my safety, my morals or my dignity - it's their path to walk.

7. Respect H's choices, even if I don't understand them.

8. Let it go. The thing that happened 18 years ago is not worth the haggard look on my face. If I can't let it go, I need to have a calm, and rational discussion about my feelings and then let it go. I am responsible for my own serenity and feelings. No one else is.

9. Validate other people and their feelings. Give praise. Have productive conversations.

10. Control thy temper. My boss and I have a joke at work, when someone emails us and annoyed us, we usually ignore it until we "can respond professional to their question." If I'm in a bad mood, I need to either hide out until it passes, or avoid conversations until I can, "respond professionally."

11. Learn to communicate better.



I still have a few others that I'm mulling over, but that's where I'm at so far.


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Also

12. I have to stop being so negative about everything in my life. I've gotten some positive signs from H in the last 72 hours, and instead of acknowledging that there's some positivity, I feel, and currently do feel that I'm dead. Our R is dead. that there's no coming back from where we are.

13. Stop being hyper critical. Just Stfu. Seriously.


Last edited by Calibri; 12/26/14 11:24 PM.

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Hi Calibri. Consider a book called "The Self Esteem Guided Journal". It contains interesting exercises on positivity and withholding judgement that I found very useful.

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Hey C, hope you had a Merry Christmas, in spite of all this stuff.

Originally Posted By: Calibri

7. Respect H's choices, even if I don't understand them.


Can I just suggest..."Respect H's choices, even if I don't understand them, OR AGREE WITH THEM?"

Probably implied already, but something that you, we, have struggled with is just how you don't necessarily agree with WHY H is doing something and it's not how YOU would do it. But that doesn't mean its wrong. We are not here to judge him/her, even if we don't agree with it because sometimes it might be the right choice for them, or heck it might even be the wrong one but were not here to stand in there way, but to stand beside them.

Hey thats a pretty good line, that last one, i might need to tell myself that more often.


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....I feel like the deck is stacked against me.

The longer this plays out, the more and more I realize that this isn't all about me. H has said for a solid month that all the blame he threw at me when he left, that he didn't mean and was speaking out of anger, and has been apologizing all over himself (via text message) about the spew. We aren't talking on the phone, but he's been trying to do a phone call for three weeks.

I do feel, however, that 50% of what he said had merit. Those are things I'm working on. There are others, that I scratch my head with and have no idea. I do feel, that sometimes, anger holds truths for people.

Anyway, it's becoming evident that there's a lot of issues. Some with me, some with our R, some with his parents, a lot with himself.

But, the anger. The anger is still there. And I'm getting the brunt off it. He's a loose cannon. I can't tell via text when he's pissed off because his texting becomes erratic and I try to end my end of the convo quickly. He keeps wondering why I'm triggering his anger. I can't help but wonder if it's because I'm the only person he's having genuine conversations with.

But where I feel the cards are stacked against me:

H feels like I'm triggering his anger. Maybe so, maybe not. He's in a place where he feels he can't control his emotions or his anger and thus, finds it hard to even conceive a R, because of his current situation. I asked, out of curiosity, if his IC was working with him to manage and work through the feelings. Apparently they're only focusing on identifying why. Which makes sense, but I wish, for H's sake that he had some tools that would make him feel more in control. But, that's not my journey to take.

H feels that if he could get ever get his anger under control, he would still have to learn how to communicate - and that to him is a daunting task.

H feels that he's being verbally abusive towards me and is very upset with himself because his actions very early in BD made me feel unsafe. I no longer feel that way now, but H has taken this to heart and feels he has to put distance between us. He told me that all he wants is for me to be "happy and safe."

I admire him, for having the honesty to say everything that he's said and to show vulnerability. But, I can't help but wonder if he's going to convince himself that the situation is insurmountable and will do the noble thing and "let me go to protect me." Do I feel he's being verbally abusive? Not any more. Do I fear for my safety? No.

But obviously, there's something within him that makes him worry. I asked him, if he felt that a situation would escalate to a physical altercation, and he said no. But that he didn't want to even put us in a situation where it could happen, because he could never live with himself if he were to harm me.

What I get from all of this? And maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, but I do think that he loves me. I think that he deeply loves me, but is deeply confused and conflicted. This has evolved from - everything is your fault to, everything is not your fault but you piss me off to, why the hell am I so pissed off?

And while, I have to admit that it's nice to no longer be seen as the big bad wolf. I can't help but think that now that the house has been blown down, there won't be anything to rebuild.


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Boundaries.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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The funny thing about boundaries, I didn't realize that they went much deeper than, "I will not carry on a conversation with you while you are angry."

So, something to discuss in IC. And read more about

While reading about boundaries, I came across something that stuck with me. I cannot and will not (and should not) accept responsibilities for H's anger. My words or actions may trigger something in him, but he chooses to react in anger. Basically, while I can and will own up to accept responsibilities for my words and actions, he needs to do the same. But how he chooses to express himself via his words and his actions? All on him.


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C, how are things between you and H? Are your interactions continuing to get better? Last thing you wrote was that you and H had a positive convo and he wanted more of it. Sounds like you've been doing a lot of thinking about yourself and you truly understand how your H feels about a lot of things.


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H is entrenched.

Fully believes that we can never have a relationship again after his behavior for the last three months.

Believes that he will never be able to control his anger or communicate effectively and that I "deserve so much more than that."

He fully believes that I'm the only one who triggers his anger. But come to find out, he's not talking to anyone, aside from me or his therapist. He hasn't told his parents what's going on other than we're "having communication problems". So of course I'm triggering his anger - because I'm having a conversation with him where he actually has to talk, instead of listen to his mom for 20 minutes talk about herself.

He's noticed my GAL activities - and comments that he's glad I'm living my life and having fun, because "I deserve it."

And the conversations he's initiating? Most out of obligation, again. Which is a habit he wants to break so now he's resentful because he's choosing to do something he doesn't want to do, because he thinks it's what I want.

I did enforce my boundary when he started getting angry and ended the conversation. That and he says how he's glad we have these conversations because it helps him work on trying to control his temper. ??????

I knew this was coming. I knew it.

I'm dead in the water y'all.

Off of the roller coaster. My ride is done anyway.


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So what are you going to do now? What's the best thing for Calibri?


Me 57/H 58
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I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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I don't know. I really don't.

Obviously detach more and not engage.

Work in IC.

That's all I've got right now.


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Originally Posted By: Calibri
I knew this was coming. I knew it.

I'm dead in the water y'all.

Off of the roller coaster. My ride is done anyway.


Ok C, you need to STFU with this talk. You are NOT dead in the water and your "ride" is only done when you decide its done. Hop off the roller coaster yes, but rise above it, keep that level head. Was it not you that less than a week ago was telling me how much hope and promise there is in your situation? That you should be thankful that you have as much communication with your H as you do because theres not even kids involved? That you and H actually have positive convo's sometimes? You said it yourself, you are NOT the big bad wolf right now, H has identified it is HIMSELF. You need to stand beside him through this, he already knows you're not doing anything wrong. He's just taking it out on you. This is nothing unusual...

Originally Posted By: Calibri

He fully believes that I'm the only one who triggers his anger. But come to find out, he's not talking to anyone, aside from me or his therapist. He hasn't told his parents what's going on other than we're "having communication problems". So of course I'm triggering his anger - because I'm having a conversation with him where he actually has to talk, instead of listen to his mom for 20 minutes talk about herself.


Of course this makes sense. He's not talking to anyone else so who else would trigger his anger? You just said it yourself. So do what you just said and detach more and don't engage. When he's ready to talk, which in one of your recent posts, you let him come to you, you said it was a very positive convo. Not talking to other people is also normal. My W talks to me, her mom and her roommate. Her mom is divorced 4 times and her roommate has the hots for her. So of course theres negative influences all around- this is nothing unusual. You've come up with a plan, just go do it.

Originally Posted By: Calibri

Fully believes that we can never have a relationship again after his behavior for the last three months.


"Believe nothing what they say, and less than 50% of what they do"

Keep your head up C, we both know your and my sitch have a lot of promise. I've been pretty down lately as well with the same attitude of "its done, its over, etc etc" when in reality, we've been going at this for what...3 months? We're better than that. Go read that article you sent me from Maybells thread again. It's a huge pick me up, IMHO. It'll get better, you know it will.


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Originally Posted By: Calibri
I don't know. I really don't.

Obviously detach more and not engage.

Work in IC.

That's all I've got right now.


What else do you need?

Find Calibri, you'e lost yourself trying to control the outcome of this. Let go of the fear that keeps you holding on to something that may not be right for you. (I'm not saying the R isn't right, I don't know that but rather the holding on when he so clearly needs space)

Breathe, concentrate on you.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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You already know labug is a goddess when it comes to advice, so listen to her.

Then stop the negative talk! Let him spew whatever he needs to spew and you keep on keepin' on. Do your GALs and 180s. Validate his feelings without agreeing with him.

It ain't over until it's over. smile


ME: 38
BF: 40
T: 10y, no kids, no M (by choice)
BD: 7/14/14, BF admits to PA, wants out, lies about new R.
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Originally Posted By: labug


What else do you need?

Find Calibri, you'e lost yourself trying to control the outcome of this. Let go of the fear that keeps you holding on to something that may not be right for you. (I'm not saying the R isn't right, I don't know that but rather the holding on when he so clearly needs space)

Breathe, concentrate on you.


I need serenity. I need peace. I need answers. I need stability. And I need a plan.

I can probably achieve all of those except for one.

The funny thing is, I never wanted to be defined as a wife. H and i had a joke that we should get a W for christmas because they cook and clean and pay bills on time. But regardless, I was always defined as H's W. I live in the south so as soon as I got married I became (in others minds) Mrs. H's first name his last name. When in reality, I was my first name, my last name. Yes I was married, yes, I was and still legally am his W.

But now that it's potentially off the table? I realize how much pride I had being connected to him in a social setting. In a legal setting. In an emotional setting. Being his w. Does any of this make sense? I guess, part of my identity, but not all, has been influenced and shaped by being in a R with H .

This whole thing has been a blow to me emotionally, physically, spiritually. I'm still struggling to find ten things I like about myself in my regular journal. I have to write an end of year review at work and list my accomplishments, and right now I can't think of any other than my smart ass didn't get myself fired. Before BD, I had clarity, I had happiness, I thought I had it all.

And now, it's like I'm scattered into a million pieces on the ground. I cannot afford to let this creep into my workplace any more than it has. I cannot let it settle into my everyday life. I am much better than this. I cannot let this define who I am.

And yet, at the end of the day, I'm the woman whose H left her. For whatever reasons he has.

That's not who I am, but yet it is. At least right now.

Time for ganb8tes meditation app. Maybe that'll put some pep in my step.


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It hurts, yes it does and our whole lives are affected by it. I had to take 2 weeks off from work in the beginning because my head wasn't in the game and that could have been dangerous.

I had a goal. I didn't want to be one of those bitter, resentful women who sit around and talk endlessly about the H that left them.

I didn't want to be defined by this one happening in my life so I worked to make that not happen. Our definition is the only one that counts.

It seems that, you want serenity and you want it now! (If you remember Seinfeld) It doesn't happen like that. It takes work.

Be gentle with yourself, you've been at the for a very short time. I barely functioned for the first 6 months, cried a lot, thought my life was over...That gets old, fast.

The first thing you need is a plan and DB gives you some of that. The second thing you need is to follow the plan. That's very important and up until now you haven't been willing to follow your plan. You've been trying fiercely to control the outcome instead of being open to seeing where this takes you. The only person you can control is you, so you have plenty of time to do just that.

You can do this.

This is an opportunity for you to become the best version of you possible.

I like to say, not all gifts are wrapped in pretty packages.

You've been given the gift of time. Use it wisely.~cadet


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

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I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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Originally Posted By: Little
You already know labug is a goddess when it comes to advice, so listen to her.

Then stop the negative talk! Let him spew whatever he needs to spew and you keep on keepin' on. Do your GALs and 180s. Validate his feelings without agreeing with him.

It ain't over until it's over. smile


hmmm goddesss, maybenot. My feet are definitely made of clay.

Here's the key, I finally decided to wake up and live in reality. I stopped making excuses for my shite. I let go of my victim role.

I allow others in my life worry about their shite, unless they ask for help. But even then I have boundaries.

I work at this daily. I had an appt with my IC yesterday that helped me see how I at times still try to control outcomes. The difference now is I go to her ans say, I'm stuck in a place I don't want to be. Help me work my way out. And she does.

And it always comes back to me and what I can or can't do to change the situation.

It's all an inside job. And the inside is inside our head and heart.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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Part of the problem with trying to follow my plan is that H will give me a pretty song and dance about how he wants to talk more or blah blah and then I get sucked in because I (foolishly) think -- "oh this is it, this can be where we're going to make progress." That and the fact that I miss him. Miss him DEEPLY.

The reality is, he's deep within his own depression. His own [censored]. And he's falling back into the old habits that he wants to break. And taking me along with him. I'm tired of it. Which is why I'm stepping off the train. Short term goal: NC for a week. Long term goal tbd.

I want to control it, because I want it to work out. I feel the need to fix it, because I was blindsided by this. It came out of nowhere.

But the reality is -- if H were to come home, and work on our R, I want it to be because he wants to. Not because he felt defeated and had no other option. Because, I want someone who wants to be with me, not because they feel like they have to be with me. I never (and have never) wanted to second guess a reason why a partner is with me.

I'm back to feeling like I did right after the BD. I had a long cry last night at home. I'm exhausted right now. I feel very fragile, and like I'm one bad comment from a cry fest at home. I'm angry. Angry that H didn't put his trust in me to talk to me about his feelings. I'm angry at myself for not seeing this coming. I'm sad that after 10 years, we've been reduced down to this. I'm sad that we can't even talk to one another because of how angry we both are with our individually feelings. I'm upset that my H doesn't want to be with me, right now (as he likes to say -- so I guess that's a positive, we've moved up from I'm divorcing you to, I don't want to be with you right now). I'm upset that my H felt lost while he was with me (and I don't know if that has anything to do with me -- but I'm taking it personally, and I probably shouldn't). I'm upset that my H is so depressed and overwhelmed with his situation and angry that he can't see up from down and doesn't see the value in us. I'm sad that he's so unhappy.

I'm a lot of things. And overwhelmed. Because, there's not a damn thing I can do other than take care of myself, work on myself and see what happens. And I have to respect myself and love myself enough to follow through with the plan. Because otherwise, then what?

Ugh. No more rambling.

Thank you Labug, T and Little for the check-ins and kind words. I think I may need some hand holding for awhile.


M:32,H 32
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Here's a hug and a challenge. We start moving forward when we stop making excuses for what were not doing.

Have you read this?http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=56829&Number=2520879#Post2520879

Not my words but the quote from robx?

The only way through this, is through this.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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Glad to see you are still plugging away with Headspace. I went on a pretty treacherous bushwalk yesterday (lots of potential for rolled angles and a steep section called "heart attack hill"). I swear I was so much more aware of where my body was at as a result of my mindfulness practice. It was awesome!

Andy Puddicombe (the Headspace guy) also has a good podcast on relationships. Helped me detach and come to recognise my H as his own person in the early days post BD. The link below is for iTunes but you can also find it on Soundcloud (called Headspace on...relationships).

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/headspace/id823637079?mt=2&i=259756726


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Oh, that post was a little upbeat given your recent posts. I was responding to an earlier one and missed the recent ones. Sorry to hear you've had a rough 24hrs. One thing I've found interesting in all of this is how my sadness etc comes and goes without any changes in the external circumstances. Which is to say it is all internal and how I'm reacting to things that creates many of my ups and downs.

Part of my plan is to commit to daily mindfulness practice. My IC actually recommended it as a way to address my reactivity. Part of my plan is to learn how to soothe my own anxieties and learn to let others take on that burden for themselves. The longer this goes the more I realise that DB is not just about turning around our sitch. It is about developing skills that we must practice always in order to have good loving relationships.

Anyway, just sharing some ideas knowing that your 180s and reflections on areas you'd like to improve overlap with mine somewhat. Remember to inject a little YOU into your plan, and not just make it about bringing him home.


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C, here's a chest bump. CF's don't hug... =) thank you as usual for taking the time to respond so thoroughly to my sitch. Really makes me smile when I see its you that checked in on my thread.

Originally Posted By: Calibri
Part of the problem with trying to follow my plan is that H will give me a pretty song and dance about how he wants to talk more or blah blah and then I get sucked in because I (foolishly) think -- "oh this is it, this can be where we're going to make progress." That and the fact that I miss him. Miss him DEEPLY.

C...we are both continuing to struggle so bad with this. And I haven't quite figured out how to deal with it besides continue to say No Expectations. I understand what you are saying, I really REALLY do. We take what H/W says at face value, and start thinking hey...maybe he/she will really change/call/talk more...maybe this is going to be better now, and then after 1-2 days/weeks of good stuff, they revert back to their old habits and we are crushed because were thinking..."hey didn't you JUST tell me you wanted to do this?" Case in point, W called me 3 times on Christmas Eve, right after we had that convo about me not liking how she responds to messages slowly. Next few days is pure awesomeness. Obviously you've read my sitch, and now I'm crushed because like you...its "hey, you just told me were gonna work on this part..."

Originally Posted By: Calibri

The reality is, he's deep within his own depression. His own [censored]. And he's falling back into the old habits that he wants to break. And taking me along with him. I'm tired of it. Which is why I'm stepping off the train. Short term goal: NC for a week. Long term goal tbd.

I want to control it, because I want it to work out. I feel the need to fix it, because I was blindsided by this. It came out of nowhere.


NC for a week. What are you going to do if he initiates again? Last time you tried this you said he kinda prevented this because he wanted to talk all of a sudden. Also, I thought you said NC was a bad idea given what he said in MC?

C....we can NOT fix this. You tell me this every day. The more we try, the less that gets accomplished. Remember that link you shared with me from Maybell's thread? from ROBX i think? Slow is fast...fast is slow...remember that, I know I need it too. We are both trying so desperately to fix it because it blindsided us, hit us like a ton of bricks, and we are scrambling to do something, ANYTHING to make it better. You know theres nothing you can do right now but be PATIENT and work on yourself. I know how bad you want this M of yours to work out, and I am praying it does. But you have got to let go of the reigns a little and let H sit in the drivers seat. Because like it or not, thats where he's sitting.

Originally Posted By: Calibri

I'm back to feeling like I did right after the BD. I had a long cry last night at home. I'm exhausted right now. I feel very fragile, and like I'm one bad comment from a cry fest at home. I'm angry. Angry that H didn't put his trust in me to talk to me about his feelings. I'm angry at myself for not seeing this coming. I'm sad that after 10 years, we've been reduced down to this. I'm sad that we can't even talk to one another because of how angry we both are with our individually feelings. I'm upset that my H doesn't want to be with me, right now (as he likes to say -- so I guess that's a positive, we've moved up from I'm divorcing you to, I don't want to be with you right now). I'm upset that my H felt lost while he was with me (and I don't know if that has anything to do with me -- but I'm taking it personally, and I probably shouldn't).I'm sad that he's so unhappy.

C, im so sorry you are hurting this much right now. You being a million different emotions is 100% understandable, you know that. I literally feel like I could have cut and pasted this section and put it in my own thread because thats my feelings for the past 3 months. How did our beautiful M get reduced to this...shell of a relationship. My W has said almost the exact same things as your H...that she is lost when she was with me. Now she's on a journey to find herself. Just like your H is...but you have to let him do it. I can see how much you care about H, just in this tiny paragraph. You're angry at yourself for letting it get to this point but you're upset even more that you're H is sad and depressed. I can see how much you care C...but you've got to let go a little bit and try not to focus on controlling the outcome. Time is on your side. Look at the positives, just like you are, focus on that. Find your happy place...for you probably the CF gym. (Im picturing Camille right now...haha). Keep your head up C. H will come out of his bat cave sooner or later. Just keep doing what you are doing and you will be the one he sees when he emerges from the dark.

Screw it. Even CF's can hug. So here's a big giant bear hug.


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T: 5yrs
BD: 22 SEP 14
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And rounding out this shittastic last quarter of 2014 - my neighbor died. Such a fantastic, elderly woman who I will fondly remember for sitting on her front porch, chain smoking and talking [censored] to H and I while we were renovating.


Good riddance 2014.

Last edited by Calibri; 12/31/14 11:37 PM.

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Sorry to hear that, Calibri. Wishing us all a better 2015!


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Calibri - you can do this. I understand a lot of what you talk about, the agonizing, analyzing, and grieving for the W/H role and the years. I've cried my eyes out over it too.

But what if we spend 15' more each day in 2015 imagining the joy and freedom that might be around the corner even if our worst fears about this loss come true? My goal is to legitimately imagine a better life without Florence's 'Heavy in Your Arms' being my life soundtrack with him. 15' more a day I quit thinking about the last thing he said, if I'll hear from him again...what a sad sack I've become. My H knows I heard him, knows I want to work things out and where I'm committed to change...he pissed all over it so I'm onto dimming/going dark and told him I'd be working on moving on with my life because I accept his feelings about us. I don't know why I was so intent to love an obviously troubled man in the first place. I did, I'll feel gratitude for those years, and I'm choosing to let him go now. If he returns, maybe he was mine to begin with blah blah blah, but what is the point in working harder for your relationship, always?

If these guys can find the strength to start looking for stability and happiness in their own lives, take responsibility for it, we might have a chance to do something with all the introspection and growth their walking away has brought. Your H is making his choices every day. It's tempting with DR to believe we can influence and get the responses we want through those techniques, but kicking them out of our head, GAL and leaving the door cracked may be the only real peace to be had instead of hoping those things will get a marriage back on track. You sound strong, hilarious and deserving of so much joy - I hope you find that joy in your days and let him work out what he has to without jerking you around.


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So. I've been taking baby steps.

I wasn't able to go NC due to some personal family issues that had to be discussed with H. It's always something. 2015 seems to be picking up right where 2014 left off, hhhoooooray.

I have however, modified my conversations: how I'm responding, subject matter, etc. H has initiated a few convos, sent me a link to an artist who he thought I would like (I ended up LOVING the artist and am trying to get a print for the house) and we had a nice convo about it. We've done the how was your day, blah blah blah.

But where I've modified my behavior: I've kept convos short (H seems to respond well to that) I enforced boundaries (ended a conversation when he started getting frustrated, which would lead towards agitation and anger), I've stopped expecting follow up. If I don't get a return text, I leave it at that. I let go of my need to control his end of the conversations (frequency, why is he not responding to my text) and focused on myself and as such, I'm feeling better about myself and the situation. Granted I'm like four days into the process, but damn it, I'm doing it.

I've been listening to what he has to say and processing things. I've asked questions to understand. I've really tried to STFU about me, and just freaking listen. I've learned a lot by focusing on someone other than myself and in a manner that doesn't tie back into my fulfilling my needs.

But perhaps the biggest baby step I've taken this week, was to say no. H invited me out to lunch on New Years day and I said no. Partially because I had other plans, but more because it wasn't a healthy thing for me to do at that moment. I was feeling very raw from the holidays, upset about our neighbor dying, I was just a ball of emotions. I knew that I couldn't do it, and that it wasn't the right thing for me, emotionally. So I simply said no. And you know what? I didn't even worry about "OMG what if I say no and I'll have blown it!?!" Because quite frankly? A) I didn't give a damn and B) I did the right thing, which was to take myself off the rollercoaster and to take care of myself.

Interestingly enough, H is going to neighbors funeral tomorrow (I didn't even discuss it with him, complete 180 from funeral gate that we had over thanksgiving). He asked me if I wanted to go to breakfast before the service. I'm thinking about it. Haven't decided, but I am thinking about it. I'm feeling better emotionally (fantastic new hair cut and new color, PMA has been boosted from multiple workouts and personal validation from lots of friends) and I know that I can do it without going into a tailspin.

Regardless, of if I go to breakfast or not, I plan on looking stunning (haven't seen H in over seven weeks), will smell good, will be the best version of myself, and have plans after funeral that will give me an excuse to have to leave immediately.

......is this where I say onward?


Last edited by Calibri; 01/03/15 03:11 AM.

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You're an impressive woman, Calibri. You seem like a take-charge person, who's determined to be successful and willing to put in the efforts to achieve her goals. I wouldn't be surprised that you've been successful in your education and that your career is well on its tracks.

I'm tempted to tell you what my IC told me: my controlling tendencies, my preference for things being done my way (it's better!) has paid handsomely at work, but it's a behavior that doesn't translate well in other spheres of my life. It made me critical and controlling of my W. It makes me impatient in general when things aren't as good as I can do or imagine them. What I've realized is that my goal at home is not to optimize the loading of the dishwasher or planning of the annual holidays, but to optimize my R. This means to let go of a lot of little things in order to achieve this big thing. Make my W happy and safe with me, even if it means wasting dishwashing soap or paying more for our flights. Make of that what you will, if the shoe fits.

I've had one boss who was always a step or two ahead of me and made me feel like I was unprepared and border incompetent (and people said I was on her good side!). Sure, she taught me to outdo myself, but I was also nervous and uncomfortable around her. Come to think of it, it sounds a lot like what my W told me about being around me. Is there someone like this in your life that could help you reflect on how it feels to be on the other side, someone to inspire your empathy for H?

I really like where you're headed right now. All of us have the same challenge: once we understand what we need to change, we need to make it part of our personality, unrelated to our M. This means, in our case, to let go of control not just to attract our WAS back, but to live with them. The way you'll attract your H back is the way you'll live with him. Reflect on that and about how hard it is for you to adopt the right behavior. It will help you think about whether your really want to reconcile and how important it is to use the gift of time to get this right.


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Originally Posted By: Mozza
I'm tempted to tell you what my IC told me: my controlling tendencies, my preference for things being done my way (it's better!) has paid handsomely at work, but it's a behavior that doesn't translate well in other spheres of my life.


^^^ Hit the nail on the head there for me, Mozza.


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My IC told me the that with almost the exact words.

We should pay heed.


Me 57/H 58
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Quote:
I'm tempted to tell you what my IC told me: my controlling tendencies, my preference for things being done my way (it's better!) has paid handsomely at work, but it's a behavior that doesn't translate well in other spheres of my life. It made me critical and controlling of my W. It makes me impatient in general when things aren't as good as I can do or imagine them. What I've realized is that my goal at home is not to optimize the loading of the dishwasher or planning of the annual holidays, but to optimize my R. This means to let go of a lot of little things in order to achieve this big thing. Make my W happy and safe with me, even if it means wasting dishwashing soap or paying more for our flights. Make of that what you will, if the shoe fits.


Mozza and Ladyug: thank you for mentioning this. I would like to know more about HOW you do this. If this is you too Calibri, maybe we should talk. Not to hi-jack your thread I can start another thread Ways to Optimize R.

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I think Mozza said it but I guess it could be expanded on-

optimize my R. This means to let go of a lot of little things in order to achieve this big thing. Make my W happy and safe with me, even if it means wasting dishwashing soap or paying more for our flights. Make of that what you will, if the shoe fits.

I changed it a bit to reflect my belief that we can't make anyone happy but we can respect their POV just as we want others to respect ours.

I try to keep in mind, Is what I'm doing right for the R or is it right for me and my ego?


Me 57/H 58
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Mozza - thank you for stopping in. I am very much a determined person. It's one of the qualities I admire about myself. Once I set my mind to it - I usually find a way to do it. Come hell or high water. Re: education and career: I have a Master's Degree and finally broke into my career field a year ago. Starting from the bottom, but I have the drive and goal to get to the top.

I've been thinking a lot about what your IC said to you and how/if that train of thought applies to me. I would say yes, in most aspects. I've been thinking about controlling tendencies and where they started, and I've been able to narrow it down to three places in my life where it seems like control/critical ness became up close and personal. The first being my childhood. When my mom married my stepdad, he was fresh out of the military (was a military kid before that) and really had no idea how to interact or parent a 6 year old. For the first several years, I was treated like a soldier and not a child. Especially in areas of chores, etc. MY SD enforced military cleanliness around our home and it wasn't uncommon for me to have to scrub floors with a tooth brush or stack firewood to EXACT precision. SD would always check behind my work and would always point out missed spots and make me do the job again. I'm ashamed to say I did this with my H. I'm not at all a clean freak, but certain expectations were drilled into my head as to the right way to do it. Whereas H came from a family who never cleaned. He rarely had sheets on his bed, their house was just in disarray due to multiple factors. So I thought I was teaching H how to clean something correctly, when really, I was coming off as an ungrateful bitch.

The second instance: a job I took where my boss was a well known, well respected professional. She was also extremely "type A" and had systems and procedures that had to be followed to the letter. I viewed (and still do) her as a very successful business woman. I believe because of the scope of work I had to do, how I was expected to do it, that situation really sparked my control issues. I was held to such a high standard that, in turn I started holding others to a high standard as well.

The third instance came about a year into my M when I learned that H had gotten himself (and by proxy, me) into SERIOUS debt. He had taken over the finances while I finished up grad school. He became overwhelmed with the task, and embarrassed that he couldn't handle the situation. Instead of telling me and having the opportunity for us to work together on the situation, he made some pretty bad choices, hid them and it all blew up. His way of handling the situation hit my credit, his credit and our finances hard - and when I discovered this, I really had to take control of the situation and undo a bunch of stuff. This situation also sparked some serious problems with my inlaws - because wouldn't you know, this was all my fault (according to them)? And I started believing that my way was the right way, as I never would have a)handled the situation the way H did, and had handled my finances fantastically before. I started controlling more things and some aspects of my H's life because I didn't want a big surprise like that again. And I equated doing it my way with success. Lots of judgement, control, and self righteousness right there. I own up to it fully.

I also think my jobs both past, and present have a lot to do with my personality, or rather, I'm successful because of my personality. All of the jobs need super attention to detail, oversee multi aspects of projects, etc. My current gig, I have to assure that everything we do in our office is to FDA, hospital, medical and ethical standards. Monitor other people, equipment, etc. Constantly auditing and pointing out other peoples errors in the work place, so they don't make them again. Because in my business, errors can get us sued, can kill or physically harm someone, or shut us down.

So, years of all this, lands me where I am today. And absolutely, my work has spilled into my personal life. But I realize my relationship, and in turn, my H are to be nurtured, not audited.

So, this long winded post is an emphatic, yes to your statement. :-)

Also: my current boss and current job have me so out of my comfort zone it isn't even funny. Even a year into it, I haven't even scratched the surface of knowledge and my boss keeps me on my toes because I never know what he expects from me or what will be asked of me. I feel like an idiot around him most days simply because of his experiences and simply being out of my element. It has been a good experience being out of my comfort zone, because it's opened up my eyes to lots of things. And having a boss who thinks his way is the best way? Is very much poetic justice in some cases.




Last edited by Calibri; 01/03/15 09:57 PM.

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Also, for those who were wondering:

Did not have breakfast this am with H due to miscommunication. I thought he was going to follow up with a time and suggestion and he thought I was to do the same so it didn't happen. He expressed that it wouldn't be our last opportunity to get a meal together. Met him at the funeral. I held his arm to navigate across the cemetery, and we ended up holding hands for the service. He squeezed my hand several times and held on very tightly. This was progress as in the past any physical touch has been very limited, as he hasn't wanted it or when he's given it, it's been very weak for a lack of better words. I'm not reading into it, but I am noting it was there. He noticed my new hair style and color and complimented me on it. After the service we chatted for a few minutes and I had him laughing about my latest shenanigans with friends. I was upbeat, smiling, looked good (as confirmed by several people at the funeral and at the gym afterwards), smelled good and was extremely laid back. He asked about working out and was impressed with the progress I had made. He mentioned that he was making a conscious effort to cut back on smoking. He initiated a hug, said it was good to see me, I pecked him on the cheek and he said he would see me later. That was that.

He looks extremely tired and sad. I don't think this journey is easy for him. He seems more, I don't know, softer with me for a lack of better words. With neighbor dying and news that a family member likely has terminal cancer (we received this news all within 72 hours, when it rains it pours), H seems shook up. He mentioned it that the news was hitting him hard. Perhaps it's putting things into perspective for him? I don't even pretend to imagine what his perspective might be.

From my end, it was a good interaction. I plan on sending him a text later tonight saying that it was good to see him and leave it at that.


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Hand holding?!?!

I'm wowed!

You're being there for him without controlling the outcome, Calibri. Don't look now but you're doing it!!


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Originally Posted By: Mozza
even if it means wasting dishwashing soap or paying more for our flights.


Count me in on the control issues too (not to hijack). Apparently I still have issues because just reading about wasting dishwasher soap or paying more for flights makes me uncomfortable. They still seem important to me as not being wasteful. Zipping my lips would be hard. I understand what the IC meant though. Wow, I still have some work to do to let things go.


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Wow Calibri your posts sure were an eye opener for me. I have similarly to you not known when to STFU. I think you are doing great. There are always going to be setbacks. All we can do is get back up and keep moving forward. If hubby is not around you he can't blame you for his unhappiness. Giving him space to reflect on his own is a good idea.


Me 52 H 44
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BD 12/11 H
split 8/12
OW moved in 12/12
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When it rains. It pours. And it's monsoon season over here ya'll.

Nothing bad specifically to me or H per say. But things happening to other people. My neighbor died on Tuesday. On Friday, a family member learned their cancer had returned - worse. And possibly in the brain. He is most likely terminal, but will wait to see after further scans, doctor visits, etc. Yesterday, a friend's husband died. They had been separated for 15 months.

Normally, I would say, "oh that [censored]" and likely wouldn't give the situations more than a few thoughts. But with my own relationship filled with uncertainty and, in turn, my life, these life events are causing me to pause. To reflect.

Life is so short. Even when it's a long life, it's short. The quality of the life we live, the life in our years, those are what matter. My mom, who is an oncology nurse, says at the end, her patients reflect upon their lives and often have regrets. Regrets for not really living. Regrets for not loving enough. They always meant to to do something, "when they had the time." To take that trip, to show their spouse how important they were, to live a little. And then, life got in the way. Bills, stress, self absorption. And when living your life is no longer an option? When you no longer have the time or opportunities? It's hard to find peace. To die with the what ifs lingering in the back of your mind.

Friend's husband dying, has really given me pause. They were separated for 15 months. She loved him dearly, but their situation wasn't a healthy one. The last time I caught up, she was opening her heart, and home to him to see if they could do it. To have a healthy relationship. And now, he's gone. My heart aches for her. But most of what I ache for, lie in the feelings I would have in her situation. How she would never have an answer either way with her relationship. Hoping that the last year of bad memories didn't overshadow the good. The grief she's feeling. The unanswered "what ifs". The unknown.

I think, the unknown, for many of us is a double edged sword. It can kill us or save us. I don't like the unknown, because I don't know what it brings me. I can't control it. But at the same time, what if the unknown is the best thing for us? Because at one point, our lives, were unknown. We had no idea what jobs would open up for us, how we would meet our spouses, if we would have kids. It was all unknown.

Many could argue that our current situations suck. And they do. But the unknown, while it brings pain, brings opportunity. For growth, for reflection, for resolutions, for clarity, for achievement.

Personally, this week has scared the bejesus out of me. It makes me want to run to my H and take him by the shoulders and shake him while simultaneously saying, "we have to fix this because what if one of us dies, I don't want us to live with regrets and the what ifs!"

But, I'm not. Instead I'm resolving to continue to work on myself and facing the unknown. I hope that H does the same. I hope for clarity and I pray that something like death, won't derail our train. Wherever it happens to lead.




Last edited by Calibri; 01/04/15 07:42 PM.

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C, so sorry all thats happening around you. Sounds like left and right (censored) is just going all over the place.

Originally Posted By: Calibri

The quality of the life we live, the life in our years, those are what matter. My mom, who is an oncology nurse, says at the end, her patients reflect upon their lives and often have regrets. Regrets for not really living. Regrets for not loving enough. They always meant to to do something, "when they had the time." To take that trip, to show their spouse how important they were, to live a little. And then, life got in the way. Bills, stress, self absorption. And when living your life is no longer an option? When you no longer have the time or opportunities? It's hard to find peace. To die with the what ifs lingering in the back of your mind.


So, you told me a few things you were gonna do this New Year...CF competition, changing your hair, getting a new wardrobe, going to regionals to watch etc. What else are you gonna do? What's on your "bucket list" that you have an opportunity right now to check off by yourself? So you don't live with regrets and what ifs. I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours? Sound good? May I suggest skydiving?

- Oh, BTW, after staying in a hotel for a week by myself, it is NO fun. I thought of your H, and i am sure he is not enjoying it in anyway.

- Oh #2. Im debating on that CF comp this year, idk yet but i'll let you know. Like you, my snatch is my weakest event, that and double unders and kipping- sounds like i have no coordination, ha. I'm a monster at rowing, sprints/runs, strict PUs, cleans and anything "Murph" related...


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Ah, Calibri. Sometimes I wonder if we are twins. Your post above puts in words what I have been feeling for a while. I've not written much about the circumstances beyond my immediate sitch, but in the months since BD there has also been a death, a terminal cancer diagnosis (months to live), a possible other cancer diagnosis (things are looking promising though), a premature birth (followed by NICU) and an emergency open heart surgery among my family and friends. Oh and that siege thing in Sydney. Didn't impact me personally but it was touch and go for a bit as it wasn't clear what we were dealing with. Every time I learnt of some bad news I felt the same desire to grab H by the ears and shake some sense into him. But I didn't.

Life is short and I intend to live it to the fullest. I believe I am on that path. I'm sure for many that would mean trying to move on and find someone new to share in life's adventures. It's strange though, in some ways it makes me want to dig my heals in more and see this thing through to the other side. Sounds like you are similar.


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You doing ok C? Haven't heard from you in a bit.


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Hi everyone -- thanks for stopping in.


Have had pretty good interactions from H since Sunday.

Sunday, was super stressed out with alot of things going on at our house, few things breaking, trying to do routine maintenance on my own. Talked to H that night and ended up mentioning that I was overwhelmed with things going on and what not. And he mentioned to me that he didn't know how to help me, "right now." And for some reason, I was being very honest and said - "I do need help, but I'm not in a position where I can ask you for it." He asked me to elaborate.

Backstory: during BD aka "the month of screaming" - H expressed rather forcefully that he felt he did everything around the house. Maintenance, cooking, cleaning, and that he felt like that's all I wanted him for, that he was a glorified house keeper and that he felt like a caretaker. As such, I haven't asked him for ANYTHING since he left. I expressed to him that I was trying to handle everything on my own, and I know that he was overwhelmed with his roles in the household responsibilities, and that I didn't want to make him feel that way and as such, I was trying my best to handle everything the best I could.

He responded surprisingly well, stating that people need help with things, and that he knows he walked away from everything and left me to deal with it all, but he doesn't want to handle things that way, and if I have things that he could help with -- that he will handle it. And that he knows I'm apprehensive about asking him to do anything because of what he said, but that things need to be done, and that he's not going to, "get all resentful about it."

So I gave him a small list of things I need help with and he said he would help me with everything, and I thanked him.

We will see if this actually happens. I'm not going to bring it up.....so I doubt that he will remember, but who knows. Asking for help is a big deal for me. I'm a very determined woman. I don't ask for help. I just don't. I want to be seen as someone capable of doing it all (even though that's led to my downfall). So it was a HUGE HUGE deal for me to admit to H that I needed help. Especially after BD.

We texted last night for about an hour. Just regular stuff. It was a good conversation. H and I both agreed that it was "nice" and stuff (I'm really using $5 words tonight ya'll.) We did have a misunderstanding at the end, and we both apologized and cleared the air this morning.

So. Good, right? So why do I feel very apprehensive? I've kept low/no expectations for the past week, and H has surpassed them. Every time. We have been able to communicate fairly decently. No blows ups. H appears to be getting softer towards me. He's initiating conversations. And I'm repeating to myself the "slow is fast" mantra and not going, "Ok we've had a great week, let's go to MC" or anything like that. But. But. But?

I don't know. I will admit seeing H Saturday, holding his hand, just electrified me. I'm reeling from it. Makes me miss him so much more. I know I have to play it cool. I know I have to keep on keeping on. I just want this to work. So badly. I feel that I've added extra pressure on myself to apply the DB. Pulling it together, being nice, not talking about feelings, listening....but on like level 10. Which is not the way to do it -- and most likely why I have anxiety.

That, and I've had both IC and a close friend put some pressure on me to timeline this thing. Or to "move on." This annoys the hell out of me. And makes me feel more anxious. In our state, you have to be separated for a year before you can even file. We are almost at 4 months (yuck). If this were on the opposite end of the spectrum, and I was contemplating starting a marriage with H after 4 months? Instead of ending a marriage after 4 months? People would think I was crazy. But when it comes to separation, people think you should cut and run so quickly. Hell. It's taken us 4 months to get to a place where we can awkwardly talk to one another without emotions all over the place. Who knows what another 4 months will bring.

All I know is that I'm seeing changes. In myself, and my H. I don't know what those changes will bring. But I think I owe it to myself and my R, to not cut and run when things get tough. People may think I'm a fool. But it's my life to live. When/if I get to a point where I can't do it anymore, then I can evaluate. Because I've realized, H doesn't have all the power. I have just as much say if this R ends. So there.

I don't know. I'm venting.

I don't want to get my hopes up. I want the changes that I'm seeing for both of us to keep improving. I want us to grow together, not apart. And I want everyone to STFU about what I should be doing and stay in their own lanes.

----
On the positive side, instead of going home and crying from my panic attack, I went to Crossfit instead. 15 pound PR on my squat clean, and did the worlds most awful workout afterwards. Doing the "Fight Gone Bad" workout tonight -- and it'll get some nervous energy out as well.

--
Onward.


M:32,H 32
T:10, M5
BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger
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C!!! You're alive! Its been what a few days? Maybe I need to detach from reading your thread...

Anyways, um...I feel like I just read my own thread. It's a little scary. Even started off the same way...but first, I am so happy for you that you and H are talking. This is HUGE, as you already know, for your H. The fact that he is WILLINGLY and taking the INITIATIVE to talk to you? Awesome.

Originally Posted By: Calibri

He responded surprisingly well, stating that people need help with things, and that he knows he walked away from everything and left me to deal with it all, but he doesn't want to handle things that way, and if I have things that he could help with -- that he will handle it.

So I gave him a small list of things I need help with and he said he would help me with everything, and I thanked him.

We will see if this actually happens. I'm not going to bring it up.....so I doubt that he will remember, but who knows. Asking for help is a big deal for me. I'm a very determined woman. I don't ask for help. I just don't. I want to be seen as someone capable of doing it all (even though that's led to my downfall).


Good for you. H no doubt knows that you are determined and very capable. Asking for help, I always thought as well, is a sign of weakness. But you remember a while back you posted about that triangle and we were talking about getting out of the rescuer/victim roles? This made me think of that. You are now, not necessarily the victim, but are giving your H the chance to man up and "rescue" you. You're giving him the opportunity to step in and take the reigns, give up that control that you have held onto so tightly and give it to him a little.

Do I think he will actually help? Idk. Don't expect him to, but at least he is trying. He is making the effort, at least on the surface.

Originally Posted By: Calibri

So. Good, right? So why do I feel very apprehensive? I've kept low/no expectations for the past week, and H has surpassed them. Every time. We have been able to communicate fairly decently. No blows ups. H appears to be getting softer towards me. He's initiating conversations. And I'm repeating to myself the "slow is fast" mantra and not going, "Ok we've had a great week, let's go to MC" or anything like that. But. But. But?


Um...been there. Careful because this is where you start having expectations. You don't really try to, but its natural. You and H have been "good" for a week and a pattern starts to develop. You start to think, ok well things have been positive for a while so they should keep going right?

I ran into same thing remember? W called me everyday for 2 weeks straight, then stops for 2 weeks. I didnt really have expectations, but when someone does the same thing over and over for a while, you just start to see a pattern and when it falls through, your crushed.

To be completely honest with you, i am wondering if your H will have a mis-step of his own in the near future. The only reason I say this is because he is trying. But Idk if he realizes he's trying and when he does, i wonder if he will be like OK WTF am i doing, back to the BATCAVE! You know what I mean? Doesn't mean he won't come out of it in time, even Batman has to eat.

Originally Posted By: Calibri

I will admit seeing H Saturday, holding his hand, just electrified me. I'm reeling from it. Makes me miss him so much more. I know I have to play it cool. I know I have to keep on keeping on. I just want this to work. So badly. I feel that I've added extra pressure on myself to apply the DB. Pulling it together, being nice, not talking about feelings, listening....but on like level 10. Which is not the way to do it -- and most likely why I have anxiety.


ANNND YES....doesnt it suck when they give a little bit of "normal-cy" and you remember what it was like? But I think you hit the nail on the head. Don't add pressure to yourself. Keep playing it cool like you have been. It's working, just slowly.

Oh, and hey nice on going to CF instead of crying and setting that PR. Fight Gone Bad...actually one of my favorites.


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Calibri,

Don't let anyone tell you what you should or shouldn't do with timeline. I'm surprised that IC would say something like that, unless the uncertainty is paralyzingly you, let it be on your time. Anyway long story, I'll tell you in my sitch, I still don't know whether it was real or a smoke screen, but 2 months ago it seemed like the W cracked open an Opportunity to talk about our R. This was right after I confronted her about OM, so not sure if it was just reactionary. Anyway, I took a crowbar, through it in the crack and busted it wide open to try and solve everything......bad move. I got emotionally involved in trying to reconcile, she started to shut down, I through DB out the door and it put us back to square one. Really NC anymore, W saying she doesn't feel emotionally safe around me, very timid opening up for anything.

Take it at his pace, it's the toughest thing to do, but as sandi2 said; if they are ready, they are not going to give up because you're going too slow at progressing things. Fight the urge.

Best of luck.


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Expectations will get you. Be careful. It seems you've jumped right back on the roller coaster without your anti-nausea band. smile

You are a determined woman and you want to do this by force of will. That won't do it.

How long have you gone at a stretch without contact?


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Originally Posted By: Calibri

I've had both IC and a close friend put some pressure on me to timeline this thing. Or to "move on."


I can relate. My IC has put pressure on me to do the same thing. It's frustrating. Stick to what you believe you should do and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's hard to do in a world that tells you to "move on". But they don't have to live with the decision. Hang in there!


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Originally Posted By: labug
Expectations will get you. Be careful. It seems you've jumped right back on the roller coaster without your anti-nausea band. smile

I'm keeping a careful watch on it. But I know it's toeing the line reallllllly close.

Quote:

You are a determined woman and you want to do this by force of will. That won't do it.

Yes I am determined. But may I ask, how do you perceive I'm doing this by force or will?

Quote:

How long have you gone at a stretch without contact?

A week.


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Originally Posted By: MCS


Don't let anyone tell you what you should or shouldn't do with timeline. I'm surprised that IC would say something like that, unless the uncertainty is paralyzingly you, let it be on your time.

At the beginning of this, H had set a timeline in passing, of six months on how he thought if we hadn't figured things out -- we obviously weren't going to figure things out. H has also said alot of things, and I don't know if he still holds to that or not. I'm not asking.

I myself thought I should timeline it -- and the moment I set a timeline in my head, my anxiety went through the roof. When I took the timeline out of my head, I calmed back down. I think IC doesn't have hope that H can do the personal work he needs to do to in turn, do the work on the M. Which may come from where she's pushing for a timeline. That, or she may be asserting the fact that I can timeline it -- but I'm perceiving it as pushing. I dunno.

Quote:


Take it at his pace, it's the toughest thing to do, but as sandi2 said; if they are ready, they are not going to give up because you're going too slow at progressing things. Fight the urge.

It's a life lesson for sure. I'm struggling with it, but have gotten better in the past few weeks. Not anywhere where I need to be, but small steps.

Thanks for stopping in and sharing MCS!


Last edited by Calibri; 01/08/15 05:14 PM.

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Quote:

You are a determined woman and you want to do this by force of will. That won't do it.

Yes I am determined. But may I ask, how do you perceive I'm doing this by force or will?

Bug - my response sounds snitty, and it's not. I can't think of a way to re-word it, but I'm not trying to be snitty. :-)


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C, totally understand - too many 'helpful' people have asked me when I'm going to take my rings off and come to my senses. I've also heard this one, 'Z, he doesn't want to be with you, when are you going to get that through your head?' They mean well.

You make a nice point about starting/stopping marriage after only a few months. I feel it really would be like that, almost a new relationship after so much water under the bridge in these situations.

I'm very happy for you, the little signs that things are moving right between the two of you. You're not a fool for holding out hope. Looks like you've got some reason to.

The apprehension you mention - is it purely from feeling like 'don't eff it up now' with the DB and that pressure, or also from feeling like he might? Or that if things continue going well you'll still be on shaky ground again?


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Calibri,

I'll try and speak for her, because my IC is working with me on the same thing. The force of will is the struggle of 'waiting it out' without relinquishing all control. Not saying that's bad, but in my case; I spend so much time trying to figure out my next move...should I text her this, what would she think, what if she calls, should I be strong and confident or show vulnerability, etc. etc. etc.

Basically, what IC says is I'm getting so emotionally involved in the future, that its preventing me from doing what I need to do today. She says W is living for the present w/o looking at the future at all; MCS is looking at the future w/o living in the present. Neither is especially healthy...my approach seems more logical, but logic got thrown out the door at BD.

Make sense? Basically, not sure your beliefs, but force of will is not going to ensure you get what you want.....the only thing that you need to focus on right now is having faith that the outcome will be what it will be and that outcome will be okay regardless of what it is. Its like the Rolling Stones song..."You can't always get what you want.......but you'll find you'll get what you need."

I need to heed my own words here smile


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What's nice with BD is that you don't have to tell people that you're still pining for your M. You give him space, move on, GAL, do it for you, etc. For those who know I hope to reconcile, I gain their support by observing that I'm doing the exact same thing as if I had given up. For those who don't know, well there's nothing about my public behavior that suggests I am hopeful.

If people ask me point blank if I still hope to reconcile, I pause and say: "Well, it's only been four months after a 10-year relationship, so perhaps yes, I'm not completely detached, but I guess it's a process." Also, if they ask if the S is permanent, I reply: "Was my M permanent?"

You might have the same problem my IC sees in me: We seek validation of our thoughts. I love to tell my story in a way that convinces people of my perspective. I know it because everyone ends up telling my that W is immature, that this R with OM can't last, etc. As much as I want, I can't tell another story. I've no hesitation telling them "she's with a colleague she had met a month earlier and he's 10 years younger than me" but I very rarely can say "A month before, she wrote me that she was miserable and wanted to find a way to take a break without hurting each other."


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Hi everyone: thanks for stopping in. I would like to respond to all of you tomorrow, especially MCS who gave me a new perspective. I appreciate you all for coming in and checking in. I'm in a weird place right now.

I have a general question that's been rumbling around in my head. H has a habit of self deprecating comments, especially when resolving conflict. Ex: I'm sorry I didn't do x, I'm a bad person/husband, etc.

I don't feel like H is a as person, at all. I realize this stems from self confidence, but realize that he may feel that way because of me, perhaps perceiving that he's not living up to my expectations or what not.

How would one go about handling statements like that? I don't feel like it would be appropriate to validate, "yes, I can see why you feel like a bad person." But I feel if I say, "I don't feel like you're a bad person, that in a way, I'm not listening to him or imposing my thoughts and opinions on him. Which could be considered controlling?

My thought is, next time this statement comes up could I say, "I don't see you as a bad person, could you help me understand why you feel this way?"

Thoughts?

I look forward to posting to you all tomorrow. Again, thank you. :-)


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Can't wait to see the replies.

I wonder if its subconsciously meant to manipulate. Maybe its to try to get you to feel bad so you don't criticize him further, and instead even build him up. In other words, he does something he thinks you'll be upset with. So he does this to try to turn the tables and have you defending him vs attacking him. Maybe. I'm tired.

Still, even if that's the case, what's the right reply? I'm curious too.


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Hi Calibri,

To me that comes across as a bit passive aggressive or a cop out. kinda playing the victim so as not to take responsibility. Oh poor me Im such a bad husband I couldn't do it right. How about sorry I didn't do it. I'll make it up to you. This would make you think he was sorry and would try harder. His statement makes it as though he is unable too.


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Originally Posted By: Calibri
I have a general question that's been rumbling around in my head. H has a habit of self deprecating comments, especially when resolving conflict. Ex: I'm sorry I didn't do x, I'm a bad person/husband, etc.

Remember how I told you I'm passive aggressive like your H? Well, I suspect it's part of the same package. I come from a family who can't take a compliment. Nice shirt? "Oh, I got it on sale." Nice throw? "Oh I don't even know how I did it." Thank you? "Oh, it was really nothing." I spent the Holidays with my parents and boy does it run strong in the family.

I'm aware of that flaw and, as part of my self-treatment, I decided to take compliments with a simple "Thank you". In the same vein, I try to avoid self-deprecation. Friends have observed it in me and recommended that I stop. So now it's hard, but when someone says something nice, I don't nuance it. I just smile and say thank you. But that's all work for your H and doesn't answer your question. I mention this so that you understand that it might be deep seated in his personality. I know it's annoying, but don't resent him too much for it. He's more a victim of it than you.

I've no clinical recommendation. But how would I like people to react to my self-deprecation? When they say the positive ("Yes, you're great!") I might deny it, but I like it. In fact, my "I"m not great" might be meant to elicit the "Yes you are!" response, because I need to hear it. Remember: passive aggressive people can't simply ask for what they want, so they use other means. Another idea is to ask questions. "What makes you say that?"

By the way, I don't feel like I use self-deprecation as an excuse, as in "its' not my fault, I'm bad". Maybe I do, but my IC hasn't surface it yet! By the way, I want to discuss this passive aggressive behavior next time with my IC (and not my W and M!), so I might have more insights.


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Maybe completely ignore his self deprecating comments. Maybe whatever your usual reaction is to that gives him something... like fishing for a compliment. Ignoring his unwanted behavior may just make him drop it. I try to do that too.


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Originally Posted By: Calibri


Quote:

You are a determined woman and you want to do this by force of will. That won't do it.

Yes I am determined. But may I ask, how do you perceive I'm doing this by force or will?

Bug - my response sounds snitty, and it's not. I can't think of a way to re-word it, but I'm not trying to be snitty. :-)



It does sound snitty but I've learned not to take things personally. No harm, no foul.

Force of will, controlling the outcome, pretty much the same.

Drop the contact until you feel you're in charge of you and not expecting anything. That's detached.

Your moods are still attached to how communication is going with him or what his mood is. That's not detached.

Let go.


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Mozza: Do please post when you know more about Passive-Agressive insights.
Calabri: my H is the same way.

Geeze it is hard to think of what to say as I have been in this position many times. You want them to stop making it about them! Just be sorry. Full stop. I so think it is tied to self worth as well....like H thinks he did a bad thing and he is a bad boy.

One of the things I know is when you validate in a way that says "I do not think of you this way..." it can also back fire on P-A or for people who think you are not listening and make them shut down. "I do not think of you this way" makes the person say or think well, she does not even know me or is listening to me.


Here is another version:


"I appreciate you saying you are sorry. You do not have to put your self down and say you are a bad person. I want you to know I think you are a great person. I am just (mad) at you for x."

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IMHO, you should ignore it. By saying anything about his self-deprecating comments you are only acknowledging his feeling sorry/bad about himself. This is not a good cycle.

H should not feel bad about himself to you. You are his W. By constantly going to you and saying how bad he feels he is just associating you with negative things, feeling like he is not good enough.

If you remember, my W has a constant habit of apologizing to me. Not a good thing. 90% of the time she doesnt even do anything wrong. I asked DB Coach about this and she said to just ignore her apologies, unless its something serious because I am only encouraging W to keep apologizing to me, making her feel like she is always doing something wrong. Obviously not a good habit.

Slight difference in the 2 sitch's, but your H is already depressed. Why fuel his depression by acknowleding his self-deprecating comments? By ignoring it, unless its something legitimate, he may stop all the negativity. Just my 2 cents


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Originally Posted By: labug


Force of will, controlling the outcome, pretty much the same.



I'm struggling with this today. By wanting or having hopes that it will work - is that forcing my will or controlling the outcome? I'm not fully understanding what you mean.


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I have been in similar situations where my H will often say things like, "I feel like a dirtbag" or "I feel like a bad person". And I too, didn't feel like validating these feelings was the right choice. I would ask him why he felt that way and he would give me very generic answers like, "Just everything." Well that's helpful, ha!

I chose to tell H that I thought he was the best person I had ever known (speaking in past tense, of course wink ) and was told that while I shouldn't validate him feeling like a dirtbag, I also should compliment him either.

I like your approach of just asking "Why?" Maybe don't say much when he says things like this. Next time I hear this, if ever, I plan on being pretty silent. I believe the H's are using self-pity as a way to try and alleviate their guilt. If they acknowledge that their "horrible" maybe it makes it less horrible. Idk, just a thought!

Hang in there. (hugs)


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There is a load of stuff going on with the self deprecating comment stuff and its different for everyone. for a lot of people its just habit which started as false modesty maybe based on a fear of seeming arrogant (which itself might be a fear of rejection)

A while back there was a discussion on my thread and i posted this in a different context.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2508644#Post2508644

Its possible that its a passive aggressive ploy to play some kind of victim card. Though in most cases i doubt it is depending on their self image

I suspect that its much more likely that

'I'm sorry I didn't do x, I'm a bad person/husband'

Translates as

'I'm such an awful person and i dont know why everything i do goes wrong and hurts people, i must be really awful and at least that is something we can all agree on'

It may be nothing of the sort, just thought i'd chip in a viewpoint


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Originally Posted By: Calibri
Originally Posted By: labug


Force of will, controlling the outcome, pretty much the same.



I'm struggling with this today. By wanting or having hopes that it will work - is that forcing my will or controlling the outcome? I'm not fully understanding what you mean.


Hope is tricky because we often hope for something very specific so it's full of expectations. If you hope for what's best for both you and H, then hope can be good. It can get you through the tough times.

Not controlling outcomes gives everyone the freedom to be who they are. It breaks the co-dependency. Re-read the livestrong page on detachment.


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The other thing about not controlling outcomes is that it makes it so much easier to see what IS rather than what you hope for. That is a good thing.


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...where have you been? How is everything?


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I've been think a lot on what everyone has said the last couple of days. I appreciate everyone who has jumped in and provided thoughts and feedback. I'm churning a lot around in my head. Working a few things out before I post thoughts.

I kind of had a lightbulb moment earlier tonight. Clearing out emails and found one from my H while we were in negotiations for the House I ultimately gave up. I had written a letter to the sellers explaining my history to the house (being my childhood home) and why we were offering what we were offering. I sent it to my H for feedback. And he responded saying it was beautifully written and expressed to the sellers how much WE loved the house and how WE want to make it our forever home. (Those of you not familiar with my sitch, H bomb dropped me two weeks before closing on the house and one of the things he said was he never wanted to buy the house, he only went along with it because it was my dream and not his. To put it kindly.)

And I alternated between seething rage and wanting to sob hysterically on the floor. I'll be honest, my first reaction? I wanted to forward the email to my H and then call him and express my anger of the situation. Express my hurt. I wanted to be heard.

But I took a step back and thought, "well, what the hell is that going to accomplish?" It doesn't bring the house back. My H wouldn't have the conversation and go, "I'm magically fixed I'm coming home!" I thought about it some more (applying my 180 here, STFU and think before you react). And I realized, I'm so quick to express my anger, that in the past I very rarely processed past the anger. I didn't probe the hurt hidden within the anger, I was too busy expressing it. I think I've really deprived myself of some life lessons by not STFU and thinking and digging about why I was angry.

In the end, I'm choosing to think about it. Dig deeper into why I'm angry about the situation right now. Here's a guess, it goes deeper than being upset about giving up a dream.

I guess, in a way, there's a lot more to us than we think. Then we care to look. Especially during "the good times.". It's just a shame that most of us get there/here the way we do.

TL/DR: Calibri applies her 180 and learns a bit about herself.


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BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger
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Very nice, Calibri, it took me a LOT longer to come to that insight. smile

I'm sorry you lost your childhood home. I think there's a metaphor in there somewhere. Maybe I'll be able to articulate it tomorrow.


Me42, H40
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Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

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Thanks a lot for the update, Calibri. I'm really interested in your sitch. I identify with your personality and that of your H sometimes, so I look forward to see how you two deal with the S. When it comes to taking a step back before expressing your feelings, I admit that it's something I'd like my W to learn... It was a big problem that she'd never miss an opportunity to share her thoughts and emotions, regardless of timing and context. Often, it meant I wasn't hearing her because I wasn't mentally available.


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"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Originally Posted By: Calibri

But I took a step back and thought, "well, what the hell is that going to accomplish?" It doesn't bring the house back. My H wouldn't have the conversation and go, "I'm magically fixed I'm coming home!" I thought about it some more (applying my 180 here, STFU and think before you react). And I realized, I'm so quick to express my anger, that in the past I very rarely processed past the anger. I didn't probe the hurt hidden within the anger, I was too busy expressing it. I think I've really deprived myself of some life lessons by not STFU and thinking and digging about why I was angry.

In the end, I'm choosing to think about it. Dig deeper into why I'm angry about the situation right now. Here's a guess, it goes deeper than being upset about giving up a dream.

C, you sound so much more mature and thoughtful than when you first started posting. I can actually see the 180 of "instead of expressing things immediately that anger you, but actually processing them" being worked. You're actually doing it now, by choosing to think things over for a few days before responding to replies on here. I think this revelation (in bold) you had is a huge step. Im very interested in what you come up with. Because you are right, I agree that there seems to be more than giving up a dream.

Last edited by TLEE86; 01/16/15 06:03 AM.

ME: 28
W: 24
M: 2.5yrs
T: 5yrs
BD: 22 SEP 14
W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
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Calibri, I agree with TLE!!

Plus, I'm realizing that I rarely processed past the anger to see the hurt and disappointment at the root of it all. Our similarities are endless, really.

I think I am angry about being left. It hurts and is the ultimate rejection. It's hard to come to terms with that... Behind all the anger of it all.

You're doing amazingly well.


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
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