afraid I have waited too long #5

[nit84]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...353#Post2397353

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...805#Post2423805

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...559#Post2444559

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...898#Post2477898


I hope this puts all my threads into one place. Thanks again u-turn

[nit84]

Just some thoughts the morning after seeing my W for the first time in 2 months. It was nice but now I am feeling a bit low. I know as the day passes I will feel better but right now I am bumming.

I had my employer change my withholding tax to "single" just in case I have to file that way for 2015.

It took an extra big chunk out of my earnings. Now with having to pay my W spousal support plus the added deduction, it is going to make it extra difficult to keep paying all the bills. I hope at the modification hearing in Jan. I get some relief but I honestly don't think it will help all that much. I will figure something out.

Not sure if I shared this info earlier. My W rented, leased or bought a new car last week. She didn't trade the old one in because I am still part owner I guess.

This upsets me a bit because while I am trying to pay all the household bills.

She is living rent free at Grandma's and goes out and gets a new vehicle to drive around.

I feel somewhat like a fool. Maybe I shouldn't care so much about keeping a tidy household finance wise and just not worry about the consequences and spend money to make myself happy.

I keep telling myself to stay the course. it will all work out somehow but it is getting tougher and tougher to keep a PMA about my life.

These consequences that we all talk about don't seem to be hitting my W like I thought they would.

I have no regrets about standing for my M but I hope in the end I don't regret not doing something because I thought it would get me into a legal issue where it may cost me more in a financial sense down the road then if I hadn't done it.

It will get better and who knows maybe my W seeing me last night stirred up a little tingle in her.

Only time will tell and I have been given that gift

[nit84]

When I got home the other night I felt compelled to email my W.

After seeing all the hard work her and my MIL put into the fundraiser. I didn't realize how involved they were in making it a success. Other people helped out but I think my W did a big % of it.

This is what I wrote:

W,
I just wanted to tell you I thought what you and your Mom did for this couple was incredible. You and your Mom plus anybody else who made this possible deserve so much credit and thanks. I am sure this couple appreciate your efforts, I do to. You have always been there in situations like this and it shows what type of person you are and it reaffirms what I already knew. If you would please extend my thanks to your Mom for me.
Take Care, H

She responded yesterday mid-morning with "Thanks"

I didn't expect anymore and was actually happy W even responded.

I do have a little regret that I didn't go over and put tickets in for the Chinese Auction. My reasoning was my W was collecting the money and I didn't want it to look like I pursuing her and taking this opportunity, where she couldn't remove herself, to force her to talk to me. I kept saying just give her space and left it at that.

I left before everything was over saying Goodbye to people as I left but I didn't say Good bye to my MIL because she was busy and I didn't say Goodbye to my W for the same reason.

I believe how I handled this function was ok. I will leave it up to guys to tell me if I did or not.

Was there something I did wrong? Could I have done a little more and not crossed a line?

I want to know for future encounters like this so I can maximize my opportunities.

[nit84]

*meant to say "I will leave it up to you guys" not just guys

[zew]

I think the note to your W was appropriate. You expressed appreciation for her kindness without laying it on too thick. Hard for her to get overly upset with that, isn't it. And maybe she'll remember it the next time she starts into a "Nit never appreciated anything I did..." spew; but maybe she won't because there's a hole in that bucket.

So you handled the whole event well. See? No pressure, no drama. Now leave it alone. No follow ups. No expectations. The whole point was to establish that the two of you could be at the same place at the same time without it being unpleasant, and even that was mainly for you. That's all it was, nothing more, and you succeeded.

Now, what's next on nit's path?

[nit84]

Zew,

The only thing I was thinking to do next is to send a Merry Christmas email and then a Happy New Year's one. Wonka suggested this.

I was going to send her family Christmas cards like I did last year but I have decided against this.

Then the only other thing is we have a spousal support modification hearing in early Jan to hopefully lower my monthly payments due to changes in circumstances since the original hearing. These are so adversarial, That I fear it will put any progress that was made in danger.


About the only thing that bugs me now is. Does my W think that it has been too long since we S to go back and attempt to R?

Has too much water gone under bridge, too much legal stuff? Is she afraid if she comes back that my family or her family will treat her different?


Maybe she doesn't feel this way at all and it is just me wanting her back that is causing me to not be able to let this go.

I will fine if we D, I just don't want it to come to that.

I just don't know how to get it across to her that all that stuff can be taken care of or will take care of itself.

Any attempt I make at this will be considered pursuing or neediness.

My W and I have had only 2 face to face meetings in 3 months since she moved out.

She emailed me 2 times and I responded both times. I emailed her 2 times and she responded once.

I know there is nothing that can be done about this abundance of no contact but it still stinks.

The reason I think there is little contact is because my W doesn't trust me when it comes to the financial settlement. Unless it isn't a matter of that all and she is just trying to take me to the cleaners.

I had what I thought was a fair proposal in response to my W offer.

Appearantly, her L and her don't think so because they said they will wait till the (their) 2 year S date and go to court. so they don't want to negotiate any more until then.

If my W wanted D so bad the only reason they wont negotiate has to be because it is a money thing to her L and/or her.

My proposal basically said I would refinance the house assume all my W debt and give her 50% of our retirement. Property would be split how we saw fit but my W has already taken things that I didn't get a chance to discuss if I wanted or not including our Cat.

There is resentment about the house because although she has no interest in wanting it, she never thought that our financial plan from 5 years ago would ever be possible but now it is and she mad because she says you should have refinanced this 3 years ago.

I explained her that we tried and it wasn't possible at that time due to debt to equity ratios.

My W then said "Well if you refinance the house it makes it easier to keep".

I said "You asked me to see if indeed I could be eligible to refinance so I went and found out I could and now I am sorry that upsets you."

Everything my W and I discussed financially 5 years is now possible and if she hadn't jumped ship or at least tried to work on the M instead of finding OM, we would be in a great financial position now.

All the other problems we had needed to be fixed so I understand why she thought she had no other choice but to leave the M but She was already "done" and when all this financial stuff and my changes appeared it has made her mad. she said "Why do all this stuff now?" I validated her but it made her mad.

I can't say that she has regretted the way she has handled things but sometimes I wonder.

[zew]

About the only thing that bugs me now is. Does my W think that it has been too long since we S to go back and attempt to R?

Has too much water gone under bridge, too much legal stuff? Is she afraid if she comes back that my family or her family will treat her different?

Nit, this is all unknowable, and it is keeping you spinning instead of moving forward.
I used to wonder the same thing, but I don't anymore. I reason that I know my W can be very determined. If she wants something, she will fight to get it. I also know that if she isn't fully committed, I simply don't want to take on the risk. And so now I rarely think about it. She will either come back full force, or the wheels of D will churn and spit us out the back end.
Either way, I'm ahead. I end up with someone who is all in, or decidedly out. If she doesn't come back, the whole process will have taken about 2 years by the time it's over, and I think that's a generous amount of time to give someone to figure out their stuff.

I will fine if we D, I just don't want it to come to that.

I just don't know how to get it across to her that all that stuff can be taken care of or will take care of itself.

Any attempt I make at this will be considered pursuing or neediness.

You're saying the right words, but you aren't convincing me that you've accepted them.

Nobody wants the D (at least initially). You can't stop it. So stop dwelling on it not being what you want. Figure out what you will be doing if it does happen, and move in that direction today. If she stops the D, it's all upside.

And you can't get anything across to her. She has to figure this out on her own. She will or she won't. And you want her to figure it out on her own. The last thing you want is a rescue W, unsure of whether she's coming or going. She's going to make her determination based on what she sees, nit. Show her a confident man, moving in a straight line, who seems to be getting farther away.

I had what I thought was a fair proposal in response to my W offer.

Apparently, her L and her don't think so because they said they will wait till the (their) 2 year S date and go to court. so they don't want to negotiate any more until then.

If my W wanted D so bad the only reason they wont negotiate has to be because it is a money thing to her L and/or her.

As I understand your state correctly, she has no grounds for D, so if you don't agree to a "mutual consent" D, she pretty much has to wait out the 2 years. That means 2 years of you not giving her grounds. If she isn't in immediate need of the settlement, and the S isn't affecting her carefree lifestyle, it's a strategy to make you want to negotiate a bad deal to get your freedom sooner. Or she runs out the clock because it doesn't impact her at all.

Remember too that the strategy is likely being driven by her L, who is obligated to look out for her financial interests, not you, your feelings or your M. You can't blame a shark for being a shark.

And all that stuff about your financial plan. Just stow it. She doesn't care. It doesn't matter to her. (It may later when it's gone, but she's not there yet.)

Nit, you are still letting your W completely control your life, and it's making you miserable. Break the pattern.

[Wonka]

Nit,

Glad to hear that the fundraiser went really well and it was as Zew said drama-free. Score 1 for Nit.

I want to remind you to send a very short and simple "Merry Christmas" text to W. You mused that you felt that W isn't feeling the consequence of her choices. She probably is to a certain extent. My sense is that she will most probably feel them after The D is final and all of the financials settled.

Let me share a bit about my own experience. As you may know, I had my own MLC and dropped the bomb on Ms. Wonka's birthday (yeah, I won the Spouse of the Year award :/). I did face the consequences of my choice such as: 1) Ms. Wonka left me for OW 2) Our house got sold 3) I suffered a bit financially due to the split 4) I berate myself t times for the BD and the subsequent fallout.

Finally, a D is just a proclamation that you're no longer married from a legal standpoint. As you can read in the forums, people DO reconcile even long after a divorce. There's always hope.

[zew]

Finally, a D is just a proclamation that you're no longer married from a legal standpoint.

Wonka, i still struggle with this. You see, it's more than that. Right now, I have a financial plan that gets my house bought, my kids through college and my W and I into our mid 80's in retirement. If we D, my W takes a substantial chunk of that, and she has never had a $ that she didn't spend twice. So in the interim between D and any possible post-D R, we will likely lose 10 years and the kids education, and I'm at the age where I don't have that horizon anymore.

It's an issue that I'm still ruminating, if only in the hypothetical, since we are still diverging. If W comes back post-D, what was that? Just a ploy to get primary ownership of assets from Zew, that money controlling bastard? I can get over A's, but can I get over that, since to me it robs the kids? (These are my hells.)

Sorry for the sidetrack Nit.

[nit84]

Zew,

Thanks for the comments!!


"You're saying the right words, but you aren't convincing me that you've accepted them.

Nobody wants the D (at least initially). You can't stop it. So stop dwelling on it not being what you want. Figure out what you will be doing if it does happen, and move in that direction today."


I feel like I know what I will be doing if we D but until the D actually happens. I cant fully do what I see myself doing, which is meeting someone and having a great time together and see where it leads. I will not date until I am completely D. This is very important to me. I am not trying to be better than anybody that is S and has chosen to date. I just feel differently about the dating while M issue.


In my state my W thinks she has grounds for D but doesn't want to go that route to save money and reputation.(her words)

She has not asked me to agree to "mutual consent" D, all we need is a fair settlement and I would agree to sign that type of D. We have no children so it is the house, the retirement, and the property that is it. My proposal allowed for my W to walk away debt free with half the retirement of which she contributed 20% and as far as property there is only a few things I really wanted after the furniture was divided but my W already took a lot of the stuff that wasn't even discussed. That honestly doesn't bother me except for our cat.

So there really is not much negotiating that's needs done for a settlement to be in place IMHO.

Her proposal had me paying off all the debt and refinancing the house which is fine but she wants to say that all of the marital debt(credit cards) is all my responsibility. and therefore is asking in essence for an 90%/10% split of the retirement because she makes less than me. They are taking random financial numbers and arranging them in a way that isn't possible. I agree with all the figures. it is just how they are using them. They are taking things from when they say we S and then taking number from right before I was served the D complaint it has to be one or the other. The numbers right before the D complaint are obviously higher because they had 11 months to grow. She thinks the house is worth 33,000 higher then the Appraisal I had done.

her L said they will wait to do their own appraisal till closer to the court date. This is in hopes the house value comes in higher.


My L says I have more than enough intel to file D on adultery but I don't want to do this at the moment because things aren't all that rosy with my W and her OM. Not saying if that fizzles she will come back but I don't want to drag her though the mud because the A is not a dealbreaker for me.

I think that is more the reason my W won't file on certain grounds. Because what she is alledging is a little bit hard to prove according to my L. I believe she knows that what intel I have will make adultery grounds a viable option for me.

None of it really matters in the end so if we could agree on a settlement, things could be over relatively soon. I know I can't stop it so if we can agree then we can go our separate ways

All that financial talk was 5 months ago and hasn't been brought up since. I provided the info for so people on here would know a little about my frustration.


I don't believe my W is completely controlling my life. I still GAL I have done some 180's that my W has noticed and they upset her. Most of my changes have stuck. the ones that haven't are ones that need money to continue which is running low at the moment.


I do still want to R so in that regard you are correct in saying my W has some control over me. I don't know what to do other than date someone that will make it look like I am moving further away. I used to text her at least twice a week last year. I don't do that any more. I could email her a lot more but I haven't. I could go to where my MIL bartends and whine to her. I don't do that.

When she was living here with me I would make it appear like I possibly had a date and GAL. She is not here so that is off the table. I just do what I want. Whether that be go to a movie, or sit at home and watch a sports event. I don't sit around hoping she pulls in the driveway and comes flying into my arms. I use my dreams for that stuff.


I understand that it has to be her decision to come back and that is what bothers me. She get frustrated easily and quits on things. She holds grudges against people for reasons that are her own. She gets upset when things that she thought would be one way turn out to be another. I have all of this working against me.

Everybody on here has that working against them.

I suppose I could send the LRT letter but I don't feel I can do that yet and make it stick.

I believe you are correct when you say what my W is doing is strategic in nature. Maybe that will change depending on how the Modification hearing goes. I will continue IMC appointments till they no longer help and I will pray for the best outcome. Whatever that is.

Lets say that in a couple months I believe I have become a person only a fool would leave and friends and family concur. The problem is this person I will have become still upsets my W. What do I do then?

She is upset now and most likely she will remain upset in a couple months from now. What will change for me? I probably will be doing GAL, The 180's will be true changes if they aren't already and I will still be in IMC. So I guess more of the same but in a good way. Her loss but that doesn't make me say "Oh well, I tried and shut any possibility of a R out of my mind" It will just be further down the line.

I do have this little bit of fear that if we do D and I have become this man that only a fool would leave. I would be able to be that person for someone new without a problem going forward. But every chance I got I would show what a fool my W was/is for not believing in me enough to try and save our M.

Zew, I hope you don't take what I have typed as me dismissing what you are saying. It is not that at all. I have a hard time putting exactly what I mean in words or text.

That is not lost on me as a contributing factor for why I am where I am at in my M.

You have always given me straightforward advice and opinions as has a lot of the other vets and it is greatly appreciated and I hope you and others continue to do so.

I know what I want, I don't know how to get there at the moment. If I don't get what I want I will still be ok, I will just be doing it with someone new and be much poorer.