Hi everyone. Thanks for bringing my thread back up Bright and kml! When I tried to post on the old thread it was locked or maybe I just forgot how to post! LOL
Not sure how or where to begin but here goes.
July 2014 - h tells me he's had it with ow. She has become even more crazy, controling and demanding. He said it actually started last December while they were on a trip. H is planning the next steps to rid himself of her. He distances himself from her and her drama.
August - ow decides she is going to live a more "fulfilling" life than h wants to live and starts to do her own thing while still being taken care of in the manner that she feels entitled to. H was still paying all the bills because ow couldn't get a regular salaried job and had to go back into commission sales. She has had no income since moving here in June 2013. He took away all of her access to the money that he gave her to pay bills (separate account, thank God). She becomes angry, abusive and determined to get back at him for taking away her ability to secretly syphon money from the household budget for herself and to send to her lazy adult child. He withdraws the separation agreement and speaks with an attorney about evicting her. The lawyer shocked him back to reality by saying that it sounded like she had found a sugar daddy. It pissed h off to hear that from another man but that was the beginning what I think was a wakeup call for him.
September - ow installs locks on doors to 3 rooms inside HIS home and tells him that he's not allowed to enter. He sends her formal notice to vacate by September 30th. WE post it on every entry door to the house as well as all of the interior doors. She rips them all down and tells him she will leave when she's good and ready to leave. He removes some of his valuables and brings them to my house. With the deadline to get her sorry a$$ out of the house he sends her a reminder about her deadline for departure. She goes ballistic and starts sending him nasty, condescending emails attacking his character, threatens to ruin his career and sends me threatening emails. He has me send the threatening emails and texts that I received from the ow to his attorney. The attorney tells him that he's fortunate to have an understanding wife who didn't kick his a$$ to the curb. Yep, he actually tells me this.
October - He puts the house up for sale. She tells him she will do everything in her power to stand in the way of the sale because she isn't leaving the house until she's old and gray! HA! He remains calm and seems to have been jolted out of his mlc. Everything is clearer now and he sees her for what she was after from the beginning of their r. She continues to lock herself in rooms while he is there and doesn't allow him access to most of the house. At this point, I become a concerned for both of our safety and tell him to get the heck out of there. He has friends that he could stay with until she was out of there.
He refuses to leave saying that it's his home and she isn't going to run him out of it. Bad move on his part. On a Sunday evening in mid October she came to his bedroom as he was sleeping, jumped on him and started slapping and beating him up. He grabbed her wrists and told her to stop. She kept kicking and fighting him. He pushed her off and tried to settle her down. After an hour of her screaming, ordering him to get her another blanket, change sheets on her bed (crazy) and threatening him, she calmed down. He stayed there trying to decide what to do. He called me at 4am telling he was on his way over and needed to talk. I told him the logical thing to do was to call the police. As we talked the ow was sending more threatening emails and texts to him. She told him that he should sleep with one eye open and that she wasn't finished with him etc. While he wasn't encouraging her he kept her talking. So now we have it ALL in writing, texts, emails to both of us!!!! He asked me to go with him to the local Sheriff's office to file the report. He seemed so vulnerable and was still in shock. I ended up going with him. An hour later we were on our way to the house with the Sheriff.
They went in to talk to her. About 10 minutes later one of them comes back out to talk to us. She claimed that everything was just fine and that there was no trouble. As they questioned her further and told her what my h claimed she told them that he had tried to rape her!!!! Neither Sheriff bought her story saying that she was too calm and that her story didn't add up so they were going to arrest her and take her to jail for domestic abuse. A few minutes passed. My h seemed nervous and as if he were afraid. She came out in handcuffs looking like she was on her way to the grocery store. No emotion, talking to the cop that was bringing her out like it was no big deal. My h had tears in his eyes.
They held her for an entire day and evening until her h (who lives in another state) could find someone to come and pick her up.
H contacted the attorney to find out how to remove her things. Long story short, she was given 2 weeks to get it all out otherwise it was up to my h to do with it as he pleased. He had the attorney send her notice that she had 1 day to get it all out. Since they had a no contact order I had to be there on the day that she moved. She has so much junk to remove it took 3 good sized moving trucks and 10 hours to get it all out of there. One of the trucks alone was filled with her clothes. I called them "tools of the trade". Fancy clothes for luring in her victims! LOL Yep, she's got it down and has obviously done this before. I'm betting that no one has every had the princess arrested.
It occurred to me after observing her behavior and recalling all that my h has shared with me about her over the past year and a half that I was watching an out of control Narcissist.
H alert! He just called. He will be here in a few minutes. Will get back here later to finish this after he leaves. What I haven't had a chance to write is what's more important than the drama and where I need help and advice.
Your h needs to get a security system as well as change the locks on exterior doors as soon as possible.
If that little adventure down MLC way didn't wake him up, nothing will. Maybe now he'll begin to truly focus on his issues and come to his senses and realize he has a wonderful wife that has stood by him through thick and thin.
I would suggest that all of you watch your backs for a while. I don't trust twinkle twat to go away completely for a while. She doesn't strike me as someone that will stay in the shadows for very long w/o creating a ruckus for one final hoorah.
BTW, the reason you couldn't post on your old thread is because your thread had exceeded the 100 posting limit.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hey NLT, you are right, this is a novel material..
Originally Posted By: Notlikingthis
The lawyer shocked him back to reality by saying that it sounded like she had found a sugar daddy. It pissed h off to hear that from another man but that was the beginning what I think was a wakeup call for him.
This is priceless!. It made my day!
Originally Posted By: Notlikingthis
The attorney tells him that he's fortunate to have an understanding wife who didn't kick his a$$ to the curb. Yep, he actually tells me this.
And this too, LOL.
What an ordeal! I agree with job, this is probably not over yet. I just hope she will find another “sugar daddy” quickly.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Hi, I just wrote the next chapter of the short novel and lost it all....ARGGGGG! I'm exhausted and too tired to repeat it right now. Sorry kml, I'm going to keep you in suspense for another day.
Bright, I thought those were priceless comments too. It makes this all just a little easier to endure. Validation for US heard by the mlcer. Since the attorney made those comments, he (and I) have heard them from several of friends that he's talked to about his ordeal.
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
Continuing from my last post and a much shorter version of the lost in cyberspace Chapter 2
First a note of humor from the day of Twinkle Twat's (thank you job) move out of the house. I arrived at the house a few hours before her army of movers arrived. I closed off his bedroom and marked all items that were to stay in the house. T.T ignored them of course and had invited many of her friends to come and purchase items that she didn't want to move. I ignored her and she ignored me until she starting selling off items that belonged to my h. I had requested a mutual friend/attorney to be present during the move. I made sure he was a witness to the conversation. I told her that the items that she was selling didn't belong to her. She wouldn't look at me while telling me "shoo you silly woman". When I didn't obey her command, she said, "shoo you stupid woman". I calmly told her that she was an unwanted guest in the house and that she could be asked to leave at any point. The mutual friend said something to her that I couldn't hear. She immediately STFU! In her threatening email and texts to me she tried to get to me by calling me a pathetic girl and insinuated that I was a weak person. I'm a pick your battles person and not intimidated by her or anyone else. I was hoping that she'd step over the line again so I could call the Sheriff to come and get her!!!!
On to the more important issues.
After the ordeal my h started exhibiting unusual behaviors. He wasn't able to stay in his house for the first few days after T.T.'s was released from jail. He feared that she would come back to get her revenge.
While he was here for those 2 days I noticed that he was extremely anxious, restless and depressed . He told me that he felt bad about what he did to her (sending her to jail). He blamed himself for a lot of what happened. Yeah, he was to blame for allowing her into his life but not the cause of what she put him through. I asked him if he would like to read a book (Surviving the Female Narcissist) that might help him explain why he felt the way he did. Within a few hours he had an entirely different perspective. He said that everything he was reading fit her to a T. He continued to read and called often to read excerpts from the book to me. He said he recognized that he was suffering from PTSD, the same symptoms, fears, nightmares that he had after he left the military. An added benefit was that he recognized that he has some of the traits of narcissism and said that he had a few things to work on himself. Having a few of the traits is healthy and recognizing them is a good sign.
He struggles with the addiction that resulted from her brainwashing. The manner in which she drew him in (sex) and the feelings that he can't live without her haunt him. Apparently narcissist can condition their victims that they NEED the narcissist. He is facing a long recovery from this and that is where I'm struggling. As painful as it is to watch him I do know that I can't help him. I have that part down. He joined a support group and is in therapy and that is helping but it's a constant struggle just as any other type of addiction.
Twinkle Twat pops up every now and then with a text or email. She has the car that they leased and can't pay for because of her financial situation. It's their only tie to one another. He wants to buy her out of the car but she won't agree to that. I know that this is going to be her way back in. I want to do something to stop this before it's too late. What to do and how to go about it? Or do I just let it go and hope for the best?
Thoughts, advice, prayers and info from anyone that has dealt with a Narcissist are welcome.
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
I think you need to stay out of the car business and allow him to figure things out. He got himself into this mess, therefore he needs to get himself out. You can't rescue him. He'll never grow up if you do this.
He will need to get this car business taken care of asap and stop all contact w/her. He's certainly not going to be able to negotiate w/her on the car, so he needs to contact the car company about it and advise them of the situation and that he's not going to pay any more on it. That they can come and repo it. It's a loss, but it's better to have this loss than to continue dealing w/her. The only advice I for him is to run as far and as hard as he can from her.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Yeah, I agree with letting the company repo the car. He'll take a hit on his credit but it's better than the alternative.
What really s@cks is that you have to sit back and watch him pine over this crazy biatch. While it's not uncommon for them to have a period of withdrawal from the OP, this seems....extreme. And the more extreme it is, the more insulting it must seem to you.
I wouldn't put any part of your life on hold for this. Get out and LIVE your life. Don't be the reliable Plan B - he may snap out of it sooner if it dawns on him that other men might be interested in your fabulous self.
Though this is written for women, similar dynamic with men, especially with the male s3xual dynamic, imo...
Quote:
Taken from a post at Womens AidorgUK: Traumatic bonding occurs in abusive relationships because the abuser's behaviour keeps switching between nice and horrible (this Jekyll and Hyde behaviour is a characteristic of people with narcissistic disorder). So in order to get love from her partner, the woman also has to tolerate a huge amount of emotional pain, and she never knows what sort of mood he will be in because his behaviour is so unpredictable (psychologists call this intermittent reinforcement). Traumatic bonding itself is a highly addictive process consisting of 8 separate trauma components: Trauma arousal, trauma shame, trauma blocking, trauma splitting, trauma reaction, trauma pleasure, trauma abstinence and trauma repetition, each of which activates a specific neurochemical pathway in the brain which in turn floods the brain with highly addictive chemicals (which are as addictive as some Class A drugs). The different components of the trauma bond are activated at different stages in the cycle of abuse, for example, during the 'honeymoon period', trauma blocking and trauma pleasure come into play, while the tension building stage and explosion both activate the trauma reaction, trauma splitting and trauma arousal components. The other components such as trauma shame, trauma repetition and trauma abstinence tend to be present throughout the abuse cycle. So throughout the cycle of abuse, a variety of addictive chemicals are flooding through your brain. Repetitive cycles of abuse worsen the addiction and consequently strengthen the trauma bond. Trauma bonds are also strengthened by another process called the Karpman Triangle (named after psychiatrist Stephen Karpman, by whom it was first identified) in which the roles of the victim, persecutor and rescuer switch around due to certain commonalities between all three roles.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
NLT, what a mess your H got himself into. This is going to be tough for you to watch him trying to sort this. Job and kml are right, stay away from it as much as possible. Is he going back to live in that house of his until it sells? What are his plans after that?
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Thanks job. He contacted the leasing co to explain the situation and that he wasn't in possession of the car. I'm sure he didn't think of letting them repo the car but that would end the problem for sure. Can't they come after him for the remainder of the lease or the buyout amount? It's worth the loss and hit to his credit as far as I'm concerned. We're talking about a nut case that threatened to sue him for whatever it was that she thought she had grounds for. The fact that she is gone and not stealing money from him has saved him over $5K already!
I'm in full agreement and his book tells him exactly that. Run, fast and as far as possible and most important NO CONTACT. Block calls, block or delete emails and texts without looking at them and hang up if they call from an unknown number.
kml, I'm so detached now that it doesn't bother me much. I've gotten into a new rhythm without him around. I have had zero expectations for so long that other than wanting her out of both of our lives for safety reasons, I'm not focused on him when he's not around. That's not to say that I don't care what happens to him but as job said and I told him several months ago when I was in a piSSy mood...you got yourself into this, I know you'll figure out how to get out of it. Funny thing, he repeats that to me every now and then too! He is like a sponge right now. He is so desperate to get out of the funk he's in that he'd try anything that was suggested.
I see a little bit of the new man coming out as well. He's become a little more relaxed and less intense even at work. He says that the fog that he's been in for the last few years is starting to lift. He is convinced that it was because the ow kept him in a constant state of confusion with their social calendar and the drama that she created. He's happy to have the peace and quiet of an empty house more than anything right now.
We've had a few dinner dates or maybe more like social interacting dates leaving the recent drama out of the conversations. He indicated on one occasion that it was a new beginning for us. He's no where near ready for a new beginning but it's nice to hear the words. The odd thing is that I have trained myself not to believe much of what he says so it means very little to me at this point.
I have patience and all the time in the world. Whether he joins me for the next 3+ decades isn't important any longer. I have my family, friends and gardens to keep me busy and content.
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
T!!!! It's so nice to hear from you. I've come to the board on and off over the time I was MIA and always looked for your updates. I'm so happy to see that you've given up the lab coat and clipboard for your music!!! Nothing heals our soul faster than good music, imho.
Thanks for the post on Narcissism. I find this subject very fascinating. I haven't tried to go to the Women's Aid forum yet but I plan to check it out. The human mind is so fragile. It's amazing what another human being is capable of doing. The book that I read didn't go very deeply into addiction and the part it plays in the abuse so I am anxious to ready more about this. Thanks for stopping by to post.
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
He has to set the pace and work through this on his own. While it's not easy watching someone you have spent over 35 years with suffer, it has to be that way. I'm starting to see why that's so important. It dawned on me that just as with children, we have to let go so they can learn and find their own way. How else can they grow up and learn to deal with the problems and issues of life!
He is back at the other house for the most part. Since the first 2 nights after the crazy woman was incarcerated (I love to say that) he has stayed here only a few other times. He's been traveling for his work quite a bit so he's been out of town a lot lately.
As to whether he'll stay in the house until it sells? I am hoping that he does. I have encouraged him to do so. In my opinion he needs time alone to not only process the mess he got himself into but to heal as well. He calls a lot more often which is okay with me. If I'm busy or just don't want to talk I don't answer and will return his calls when I get time. Like you and many others here, I've gotten use to being alone and most of the time I enjoy it. I don't like my routine disrupted by unexpected knocks at the door! LOL
I gave him a key to the garage several months ago so he can drop things off and pick up tools as he needs without having to bother me or wait until I'm home. Other than that, I've gotten my patience shovel out and am watching behaviors for signs that his sanity has returned. HA!
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
He has to set the pace and work through this on his own. While it's not easy watching someone you have spent over 35 years with suffer, it has to be that way. I'm starting to see why that's so important. It dawned on me that just as with children, we have to let go so they can learn and find their own way. How else can they grow up and learn to deal with the problems and issues of life!
Good stuff right there ^^^^
It's good to hear you sound so grounded, seeing and accepting reality as it is...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Thanks for stopping by! I apologize for running away without responding to your post. I read and followed the links to other info on the topic of PD and Narcissism. Thank you so much for posting the link.
In your signature you say that your h said that he must see where the ow leads. I wish I could give my h your h's email. He could tell him where it will lead! LOL I heard something very similar from my h 2 years ago. I am sorry that you're dealing with this but from I've read in your posts you are doing very well. I will start from the beginning or your threads and read through.
I feel like I need to stay connected here and I do read occasionally but not as much as I would like. There are so many new names on here in just the past 4 months since I've been away.
I'll post my update here shortly.
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
It's been 4 months since I've come here to update. Where to begin..
We had a really nice Christmas with the children and grandchildren. H participated, was socially appropriate (lol) and showed no signs of stress. He stayed the night and didn't leave until they had all departed the next day. He commented on how much fun he had and how great it was to have everyone together.
A few days later he suggested that we spend an afternoon looking at new cars. I had been looking at a more economical car for myself but thought I'd wait until mid 2015 to buy. He decided he liked the model that I was looking at and ends up buying not 1 but 2 of them. One for each of us.
A week or so later he decides that we should take a vacation in January. 12 days in a warm climate!! Ahh, yes. What we both need, warmth and sunshine. He makes the reservations and we're set to go. He's very excited and I am cautiously optimistic. It feels to me as if he's looking for something to ease the pain and spending money was the way to do it.
He's up and down with what he wants to do. He asks me what I think about selling MY house and moving to xxx. I let him know that I am happy living here, might consider it but remind him that D2 is settled in her job and apartment here and that would be a major upset for her. As I said that I was thinking that there's no way I'm moving away from my comfortable and peaceful life with an MLCer!!!! He starts to look for houses in that town. He shows me a few and asks what I think. I politely tell him that I like them but ask him a few questions that might make him think about what it would be like to live there! This town is one that he and I looked at 8 years ago when we were looking for land to build our new home. We decided against it because of the distance to the city and our family. I asked him if he considered renting there to see how he would like it. He thought that was a great idea and wondered why he didn't think of it.
I believe he had contact with Twinkle Twat and that it didn't go well. He went into a funk again and used work as an excuse to cancel out trip. I should have just gone without him! He sunk pretty low and I asked him if he was still doing his group therapy. Nope. Asked him if he has considered IC. Nope, but a few days later he told me that he had been thinking about what I said and was looking into a Therapist. He asked if I could help him find one that would be covered by his insurance. I found 2 men and 2 women Psychologist/Psychiatrists. He wanted me to decide whether he should see a man or woman. No help from me! He did a phone interview with two of them and decided to see one of the women. His first appointment was in early February. After a few weeks he shared some of what they talk about. He said that he's hearing a lot of the same things from her that he heard from me. Not sure what he's talking about but I guess that is good because he thanks me all the time for "hanging in there with him".
He was so vulnerable. I found that listening was about the only thing that I could do. I had a difficult time not voicing my opinions so I said very little. Asking a few questions that I know would get him thinking is seemed to work at that point.
During one of the talks that we had during that time he tearfully told me that he met the ow at a vulnerable time. He even pin-pointed when his "transition" began. Just as I mentioned in one of my first threads. It began in 2010-11 while he was reading "The Artist's Way". He said that he wished he could go back and change it all and that he had never met "that woman". He knew that it would change his life forever and not it in a good way. Also that he felt weak and couldn't say no. He didn't use the word confused but indicated that it was like he wasn't in control of his own mind. (Those darn Aliens!)
Although he's feeling better and stronger about the "loss" of the ow, he's no where near the end of his journey. We went from his statement that "we have a chance for a new beginning" to the real possibility of D! Here's a peek into my experience with what the MLC thinks and feels as he/she is trying to find their way out of the tunnel.
Several weeks after starting therapy....
"I'll never be the same. This has changed my life forever."
"I need to move away. There are too many bad memories here." Then a few days later says how comfortable he is in my house and how he has such fond memories, how much fun we have, that I really understand him, blah, blah.
"I want you to move on with your life. You can spend your time taking care of D1 and D2 ."
(D1 is a fully functioning adult, D2 is disabled. He never mentioned the 2 boys.)
" I'm not good for anyone. I've done too much damage (think he was referring to our R).
"You should let go of me". To which I responded...I have a life without you now and while I miss what we had, I had to let go for my own sake. He responded, I know you did. ?????
"I can't believe that you're even talking to me after what I did."
More recently he's been in a better mood and has a "plan"...
"I'm going to move to xxx, I'll rent or buy a small house. You will always have a key to wherever I live and are welcome to visit anytime."
"You've been so great about everything.
"I'm finished with work. It's not about work any longer, it's about my life AFTER I leave work."
And then there are his thoughts yesterday (Sunday)....
"When I file (know he meant S and ultimately D), will you come and visit me?"
He laughs after he says that. I must have given him a look that he read well! I jokingly said probably not and left it there. That started a whole other conversation that was light and with some humor thrown in but I knew he was looking to see how I felt about D as well as where he would stand with me after. I gave him little to no indication about what or how his life would be after he moved nearly 2 hours away.
At one point I did tell him that I thought that we had come up with a good Post Nuptial agreement that would work for me. He thought for a few seconds and didn't say that it wouldn't work for him but said that he needs to take care of any legal matters before he leaves work. (He has an excellent legal plan at his disposal while he's employed.) I didn't agree or disagree but stuck my neck out a little and asked him about making such a big decision because of a deadline. He had shared awhile ago what his therapist told him about taking his time when making major decisions. I think he likes to throw things out to shock me and get me to react. I didn't bite.
The next comment confirmed that he's still out there in MLC-land...
"Who knows, maybe we'll be remarried in a few years".
I changed the subject, we had lunch and he left. About an hour later he called me. I didn't answer. I was busy shopping with my daughter. He texted me asking if I wanted to have coffee. After I dropped her off, I answered his text with a light-hearted comment. We met at a coffee shop. He didn't bring anything up from earlier. We took a drive, something that we use to do every Sunday and kept it light. No R talk. He kept bringing up funny things from our past sort of a walk down memory lane. He seems to be trying to figure something out. He looks at me sometimes like he's trying to read my mind. After coffee and the drive I got into my car to leave. He was standing outside my car and said something that he use to say when I had my old car. I'll save you all from that but it was a real compliment. I'm taking most of what he says as MLC b.s. , a little bit of schmoozing and am watching his actions. They definitely aren't matching his actions.
He's been giving me lots of hugs and some real kisses. He tells me that he loves me occasionally. A few days ago he was listening in on a business call that I was on. After I got off the phone he told me one of the things he's always liked about me is that I'm not afraid to stand up to anyone and that he respects me for that. I have ZERO expectations. For his sake, I hope he finds peace in his life. I'm not sure if I agree with him that too much damage has been done but he may be right. I haven't lost respect for him nor have I given up totally that he can heal and come through this a whole person again.
I do need some help/ideas on how to keep him at arms length yet let him know that I haven't given up on us. My gut tells me to go dark so that I don't say or do the wrong thing! LOL! It's extremely difficult for me to listen without commenting. He is on to all of the validation statements. He uses them in his work and on me too! I know it and he knows it. I'm trying to be as selective as I can on which conversations I will engage in. He knows and has called me out on it a lot saying, "I know you're being careful what you say. I want you to tell me how you feel about this." Busted!!!! There are times when I say that I have to think more about this or that I think we should discuss this another time. All I really want to do is be myself and tell him how I really feel! LOL
I'm okay with whatever he decides...Separation, Divorce or just going off to live somewhere else for awhile. I have no need to do initiate any legal proceedings, I don't feel stuck as I'm living my life doing exactly as I want. The only thing missing is someone to share it with.
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
WOW! He's still having moments of confusion and clarity. I do think he's starting to move forward a bit, but he's still clinging to that cocoon and doesn't really want to leave the comfort of his fantasy world.
You've been handling your situation quite well. The only change I would make is to not be so readily available to him. How is he going to learn that he misses you when you aren't there? It's okay to meet up w/him periodically, but limit those meet ups just a wee bit.
Continue to listen, don't offer up advice unless he asks for it. After all, he's got to grow up, make his own mistakes and learn from them. He's got to see you as his wife, not his mother.
To change the subject, how are you doing? What are you doing to keep yourself busy? Are you doing fun things? How is D2 doing living on her own?
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hey, NLT, thank you for the update. This is all quite interesting. It gives a lot of insight on what is going on in MLCer’s head.
I agree with Job, continue to listen and validate. I would not offer any advice or opinion. Let him figure it out on his own. From what I read about the stages, when they start to come out of the tunnel, there is a lot of guilt. They realize how much damage they have done. But they still cycle. This is the most difficult stage of all for LBS to not lose patience a not push them back into the tunnel. I also agree that you should make yourself a little less available.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
I have to agree with you about him not wanting to leave the comfort of the fantasy world. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if he went through with the D just as Holly's h did. At this point he seems to "have" to do this.
Not offering advice and opinions is terribly hard but I am doing it! When he pushes me to talk and tell him what I think about S/D. I say pretty much the same thing as I said a year ago. "It's not what I want.." You'd think after hearing the same answer every time he'd get it!
D2 is doing very well at her job and in her apartment. She's made many new friends and even has a social life with others that are around her age. That is something that she hasn't had since leaving in high school.
I started volunteering at the H.S. and am working with parents of special needs children helping them navigate the maze of transitioning from H.S. to work or post H.S. education. There are so many services offered that many aren't aware of. The process and steps involved to obtain these services can be daunting. My D has a few friends that are higher functioning special needs whose parents can't be bothered with helping them. I've met with some of them to help find affordable housing and state services as well. It's unthinkable that these parents have let their children/young adults fend for themselves!
I haven't taken any major trips but am planning a week away this summer and will be meeting a friend out in Las Vegas for shopping and shows! Weekend stays at a (local) Spa near the city for a little spoiling and relaxation every few months are still a priority.
Thanks for the input AND for posting the Detachment article as well. There is so much info on this board and so little time for me to read here. I've found that it's a great place to come on nights like this when I have trouble falling asleep.
Time to get some rest now....
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
I am reluctantly posting my update here as I believe the board has 'eyes".
My mlcer just might take 3rd or 4rd prize for nuttiness just behind Job's and Bea's xh's. I can't get into details here but I'm not sure that a sane judge would allow what is being proposed as a financial and asset settlement agreement.
The D papers were hand carried and served to me last week by my mlcer. I'm doing okay but have had a few very difficult days. I expected this so it's not a surprise but it still stings quite a bit. 3 sheets of paper (yep that's all), a few signatures and 90 days will dissolve 36+ years of marriage to my best friend, life companion and the person that knows me deeper than anyone else in life. I don't know what else to say at this point. I'm still processing my thoughts.
It's sad when someone that you've spent over half of your life with feels the it's necessary to walk away in order to become whole. I understand why it has to be this way, have expected it yet seeing your marriage wiped away with a signature is more difficult than I ever imagined. Yeah, it's a piece of paper and it won't take away the memories, the love that we had, the life and children that we created but it does take a piece of my heart.
I will try to find a generic thread to post more but for now, your prayers are welcome and needed.
Job, I tried to find Holly06's thread again but most of it appears to have been wiped out since I last read it. As I said before, I have a full life and much to keep my mind occupied while I find my way through this. I will survive and thrive with or without my mlcer!
More will follow when I find a safe place to post.
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
NLT, I am sorry about your receiving the D papers, and the pain that you are in. 36+ years od marriage so easily tossed with only 1 spouse wanting to end it? You have my prayers.
There is an indignity in the way a long and for the most part, happy marriage is wiped away. What kind of dumba*s throwaway society have we become that people do not question what i going on here?
Sure no-one is saying that marriages should be preserved at all costs, but equally marriage has a value, and a long marriage represents so much for the couple, their family and friends.
I am so sorry. Please allow yourself time and space to grieve, What you have lost is real, as much as if your spouse had died. And in some ways they have. But those not going through this do not see it.
My children feel the person they knew and loved so dearly no longer exists. It is so sad, and so little understood, outside of these forums.
Thinking of you NLT, I know you will move through this with the grace and dignity you've moved through all the other silliness he's thrown at you. I'm sorry he's let you down again. He's one very confused man-boy.
"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man
“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
I am very sorry that your situation has come to this. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
Post when you feel comfortable in doing so.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you all for your support, thoughts and prayers. I keep reminding myself that this is all about me and what I want going forward. Rethinking my future, visualizing life without the antics of a mlcer is looking pretty good at the moment. There are waves of sadness, feelings of rejection and a lot of unanswered questions but I WILL work through this.
Watching him poke his head out of the tunnel, have moments of clarity and then scurry back in to the comfort of the tunnel/cocoon has been so difficult. Things that he said about a new beginning for us, a comment he made after he told me he was going through with the D. "it will all work out, you'll see", remind me how confused they really are. This would be so much easier if he would just go away! I handle this so much better when I have little to no contact with him.
In true mlc style he changes his mind on a weekly and sometimes daily basis. So far it's full speed ahead on the D. Funny thing is, he is no longer going to move away from our town because "you and D2 are here, I would miss you. I like living here". Totally opposite of what he was saying a few weeks ago. He calls even more often since he "dropped another b" (his exact words)and when I don't answer his calls he keeps calling until I answer or send him a text. He rarely leaves a message so why would he expect me to call? He stopped by one day after calling 3 or 4 times and told me to answer my phone so he can stop worrying about me. Really? It appears to be the distance/pursuer dance.
I'm leaving here shortly for a few days of R & R and a change of scenery. I've packed a book that I've been meaning to finish reading, a little junk food and a lot of light-hearted DVD's.
I'll check in again when I return.
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
I spent 3 glorious days away from here a few weeks ago. I took advantage of just about every option they had at the spa!! It seems like forever ago now but I plan on taking a gf with me next time. She is recovering from surgery and could use a pick me up and some pampering. I stopped in to visit her on my way back home. I hadn't seen her in 2 years so we caught up drank wine and laughed until our faces hurt.
I'm back into the swing of things but regretting that I've gotten myself involved in so many gal activities. Having too many commitments is starting to stress me out. My gardens have been neglected for far too long. It's something that I enjoy and is not only relaxing but therapeutic. I talked to the neighbor's sons and they said that they'd be more than happy to come and do some of the heavier work. I have a few things that I've had in pots for years that need to be planted in the yard. One is an olive tree that I don't want to lose. It may not make it if I transplant it right now but I will lose it for sure if I don't. Too much to do and so little time!
I'm pretty tired of all of the d nonsense. My h hasn't been one to spew but since his decision to go through with the d he's been less than patient with the process. He assumed we'd be d within 90 days of when he served me the papers. I told him that my attorney was going to have to review the "post nuptial" agreement that has now become the basis for the d. He agreed that we needed to be careful and he was willing to wait for my attorney to review. My attorney has taken more time than my h thinks he should be taking. He suggested that I was dragging it out intentionally. He was more accusatory than necessary saying that if he found out that I was doing so that...blah, blah, blah. A few weeks ago he accused me of telling his parents what was going on and used the exact same words. For me, that was crossing the line. Accusing me of lying??? I told him that the conversation was over and got up and left the room. He followed me and I told him that it was time for him to leave. He was dumbfounded. I rarely talk in that manner and he really was speechless for a moment. He started back-pedaling and said I misunderstood that he was talking about something else. I repeated what he said and reminded him that he said the same thing when he suggested that I'd been talking to his parents. He apologized and I told him that if I misunderstood what he said that I was sorry. I heard him loud and clear and there was no mistaking what he was saying. He called and left a message apologizing again after he got home and then again the following morning.
What's the hurry for him? Don't know and don't care. If I had to guess, my attorney has seen my h's pattern of behaviors over the past year and half. Separation, no separation, post nup agreement, cancel that. Oh wait, now it's back on and separation cancelled. He knows if he waits long enough my h will change his mind. I haven't asked him to drag this out at all. I just asked him to review the agreement and let me know if there are any legal issues that could arise from this type of agreement.
Maybe I'm just naďve but it seems that an agreement that keeps everything in both of our names and doesn't allow for any finances to be divided is probably not the norm in a d. Not only that, what happens if he gets legally involved with someone or if he creates a Will or Trust that leaves 401K's or IRA's or other financial accts to someone else. We still jointly own both houses although they have been quit claimed to each other and we're responsible for our own homes. We can't gift or transfer any assets to anyone other than each other or our children. We have to disclose ANY changes to each other immediately and numerous other limits to make sure that all stays status quo. Yeah, there is a substantial amount in joint assets but up till now he hasn't spent and continues to obsess about NOT spending. MLC craziness!!!
That's it for now. I am doing well considering the circumstances. Getting away helps a great deal. Keeping my distance from my h helped too.
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
I blabbed on for an entire page and forgot to thank you for your kind words.
I started reading your thread a few days ago. You are doing fine and have gotten so much good advice. I'm not sure what I can say other than I'm sorry that you're here and keep doing what works. Take care of you and you kids. Put up the spew shield to protect yourself.
Me:57H:62 M:34T:35 2S,2D (grown nlah) BD:09/2012 visits M ow EA/PA?:10/2012 H moves out 06/2013
"Do not let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." -Dalai Lama
NLT - sounds like your h is a slow burn MLCer. This divorce things is awful, and the non-division of the assets suggests that he is both trying to stay invovled and keep control. My xh wanted most everything and was most put out when even his lawyer explained it didn't work like that!!
I had much the same convos with added spewing and no apologies. Sadly it is par for the course. Our divorce took 2 years in total, and apart from the initial delay while I tried to get xh to mediation, it was entirely down to him. A fact which he would deny if you pulled his teeth - and believe me there were times when I dearly wanted to.
Notice the language - 'Sorry if I misunderstood you'. That isn't an an apology. An apology is 'Sorry that . . ' Different mindset.
Hard though it is I have come to the view we are better of with these people out of ourlives, hearts and heads, although after a long and loving marriage I know that it is easier said than done.
I am happier now that I no longer have my xh rattling around in my head (mostly) Occasionally he puts in a guest appearanceband like the nasty garden gnomes in Harry Potter I have to eject him.
It's been a very long time since I've posted. it's time for an update. I came here 4+ years ago confused, hurt and unsure of what was happening to my h nor how to handle his bizarre behavior. I received a lot of good advice and support that helped me keep my sanity and to make it to where I am today.
My h's MLC started sometime is 2011 but it wasn't until 2012 that he started displaying the more obvious signs of MLC. He wasn't a mean mcler and seemed to keep his anger focused on the ow. He didn't tell me what I did wrong in our marriage or bring up the past. It was a wild ride for sure but as I look back on it now it seems like ancient history.
When he filed for D (2015) it hit me pretty hard. As time went on I thought more about my future as a single woman and focused on that rather than standing or saving our marriage. I started looking at myself and future. Deciding whether I would move, go back to work or school and dug deeper than I have in a very long time. It was more or less a rethinking of my future. I was nearly 60 and the thought of being alone was a bit scary at first. I had a plan and was looking at moving to another town an hour away from here. I found a few homes and was also looking for a place for D2 to live and work. She is doing wonderfully here and has been "promoted" to better jobs within the company that she works. She has a hard time with change and I dread the day that I have to tell her that we are moving. She's become quite independent here and loves her job. I am so proud of her for overcoming so much adversity and the strength she has shown.
My h continued to stay in contact and wanted to remain friends. I kept him at arms length and treated him as I would an acquaintance rather than a man that I was married to for more than half of my life. He never brought up the D that was scheduled for the last week of March 2016 and I didn't share my plan for after it was final.
As odd as it sounds only 1 of our 4 children knew what was happening. She never said a word to the others. At Christmas 2015 we all got together at my house (he had signed it over to me when he filed for separation so that the ow wouldn't have any legal right to it) and we all had a great time. My h even spent the night so as not to let on that there was anything "off".
Shortly after the Holiday's I saw some subtle changes. I can't put my finger on it but there was something different about him. A calmness came over him. He talked about his "journey" a lot more than he had over the past few years. I continued to keep my distance but took a little more interest in what he was saying. Like watching a teenager become an adult is the best way to describe it. He said things like, "your must have thought I was crazy". "I almost lost my children because of that B." "You were the only one that was there for me when I needed help and I will never understand why." Memories of things that he did aren't exactly as things happened and his timeline is waaaay off.
In February wind, rain and high tides nearly destroyed the house that he was living in. It turned into a total nightmare for him. The insurance wouldn't cover the damage because the house was in a flood zone and he didn't have flood insurance or maybe they wouldn't sell it to him. That house was doomed from the day the crazy, abusive ow moved in until the day he sold it.
At the end of March, one week before the final hearing for the D, my attorney called. He asked me if I had talked to my h recently. I told my attorney that we don't talk about D, only pleasant things. Seriously, my h did not want to talk about it. He just wanted to do it! My attorney was fully aware of MLC and did exactly as I asked him when it came to only responding to what was absolutely necessary. He didn't call or email if a date was missed unless it was going to effect me negatively. As it turned out, no one showed up at the hearing and when I went to the Court website it showed "Case Dismissed". WHAT? I called my attorney the day after and asked him what happened. He said to watch for the paperwork showing the dismissal. To this day he has never talked about what happened, what made him change his mind about going through with it, NOTHING.
Shortly after the no show on D day he asked me if I'd like to meet him in a city that he was traveling to for business. He offered to pay for the ticket and said he'd get a separate room for me if I wanted. I accepted but bought my own ticket just in case I needed to make a quick get away. 😉 It was there that he really opened up and started to ask me questions. I was no longer the sounding board. HA! We spent all of his free time talking, laughing, catching up on friends and family.
As the months went by we spent more time together. Many, many conversations later and after some dating we decided that when his house sold, he would move back here but stay in a guest room. It worked for us at the time and gave both of us our separate space. We went on vacation for 3 weeks this past fall. It was then that the last piece finally fell into place. We now share our bedroom and are working on our NEW relationship. He has been so attentive, loving and complimentary. Even more than when we first met decades ago. I still have a few trust issues but I'm working through them, slowly. I am cautiously optimistic and at this point it feels like I always will be. I pray that one day I can let go of that.
D1 is has moved to the Midwest and is doing her residency at a very progressive hospital. She loves it and has adapted to living there where she knew no one. It's a much slower pace than she has been use to but it's good for her to slow down a bit. She has a special guy in her life and juggles long hours and tries to take breaks when she can. S1 and 2 are doing well too. We have 3 grandchildren now. My h spoils them almost as much as I do. We don't see them as often as I'd like as their lives are busy with school and activities.
My h is flying back in to town tonight and will be here soon. I've been lazy for the past few days and guess I should get a few things done before he gets here. 😁
Wish I had some words of wisdom to close with. I can only say that there's no rhyme nor reason to why one relationship makes it and another doesn't. I read many threads of marriages that made it and some of those that didn't. I listened to the wise Veterans on this board and took care of myself first. Setting boundaries was always hard for me but I finally found my voice and didn't care how he reacted. In the end it really is about me and what I want and need. With or without him I was and will be just fine!
I'm anxious to read up on some of the new situations here and catch up on some of the people that were here prior to my long absence. A special thanks to job and bea for taking me all under their wings (as in angels)! Bright, kml and all of the others that I forgot too!
What a pleasant surprise coming to the board tonight. Thank you so much for sharing! It's been awhile since reading a positive post w/MLCer coming back.
NLT!!! Wow!!! What a surprise!!! I can’t believe it’s been so long since your last post! But, it doesn’t feel like it to me… I guess because I’m still in a sort of limbo land…
I’m so happy to read your updates! I’m happy to learn that your D1, S1, S2, and especially your D2!!! are doing well! And I always had that feeling… that you would be the one to make it… You had so much patience, you were always a person who your H could trust and count on, you remained his best friend… At the same time, you were moving along with your life and taking care of yourself. Isn’t what the DB is all about!
Out timeline is very close, but I cannot say that I’m anywhere close to where you are. My H is also a “nice” MLCer, but there was no crazy OW and other “dramatic” things in his life. Sometimes I wish he had a crazy OW, LOL… so it would put the things into prospective and speed up the journey… And, I’m not even sure at this time that his MLC journey is going to end… Or, if I will be there when and if it happens…
NLT, thanks so much for coming back to post! Your story could inspire a lot of people on this board. It gives a prospective into a MLCer’s mind, into MLC as a whole, and how long it could take. You don’t need the “words of wisdom”, your example speaks for itself! I think it is almost given that you would have some trust issues after all of this. But, I’m confident that you are the one who can make it… to a new relationship that is stronger than it was before.
NLT, I wish you more patience and understanding, while you and your H are making your way back to each other. Enjoy your grandchildren! I can’t remember if you had them 1 ˝ years ago. Or, were they born since your last post???
NLT, you made my day today! Thank you again for posting!
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Great post! Thanks for coming back to give some us some hope.
My H doesn't have an OW so it's harder to lay down boundaries. I think it's just sad though that they have to put us through all this just to realise that they really do love and want to be with us. I've not been at this for a very long. It will be a year in May since we separated but BD was in December 2015. I realise this is going to be a long haul.... :0(
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Thank you for coming back and sharing this with us. I know many will find renewed motivation and hope from your story.
I wish you all the best for rebuilding a newer better R.
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
Welcome back and congratulations! I'm very happy to come here and read your latest update. Now, just because he's home doesn't mean you go back to the old way of life. This is a brand new relationship and marriage, so you will need to dig deep and keep that patience shovel handy. It's an opportunity to take the DB tools and use them in your day-to-day life and never forget...you both have change along the way...so be patient w/each other.
Please come back soon and let us know how you are doing.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I was just thinking the other day that I had not read any recent posts about anyone having the opportunity to start a new R or M and then I read this
It is nice to know that when you do make the decision to work on yourself, detach, drop the rope, 180 or GAL that situations can have a better outcome. So hard to see it when you are going through it.
Thank you for giving the update and congratulations!!!
Thank you for your inspiring story. I am only at the beginning and people like you give me hope that I'm not crazy to want to save my M.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Hi NLT! I’ve said before that I really liked your clever DB name, but now I’m thinking “Sortalikingthis” might be appropriate.
Originally Posted By: job
This is a brand new relationship and marriage, so you will need to dig deep and keep that patience shovel handy.
I must've got it wrong. I thought at this point patience shovels get traded in for a “whack ‘em over the head if they get out of line again” shovel. (jk!)
Thank you so much for dropping back in with an update, NLT. I’m very happy to hear you all are doing so well. You worked hard for this and truly deserve it. Bust On!
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
NLT...thanks for the update. It is good to see the happy outcomes, but it does open the eyes to the struggles at hand. The struggle of patience during the MLC and patience dealing with the time that it takes.
You are an inspiration. Good luck with your continued journey.
Me 49 W46 T25 M22 S22 D18 S13 W had EA Apr-Jul 2016 Dropped Bomb 7/9/16 ILYBINILWYA HER DIVORCE IS FINAL...8/18/17 Dropping the rope to SURVIVE & THRIVE!!!
(jk!)