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just got notification from W's atty. they didn't even get our wedding date right on the form. i called to tell them and he advised me that the judge signed the papers last fri (12/5).

i'm now divorced. she didn't even tell me. struggling to not hate and be bitter right now. pretty devastated right now.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Praying for you.


Me: 54
H: 58
Married: 29 years
Together 33 years
H admitted to A: 5/29/14
H moved out :6/15/14
OW lives 4 hours away and "occasionally" stays weekends with H
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I'm sorry. Wish there was something I could do.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
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So sorry to hear this for you. :-(


M:32,H 32
T:10, M5
BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger
H Mental Illness Diagnosis: 4/15
Served D Papers: 10/15
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She still hasn't told me. She's called a couple of times to talk to the kids. I have them hang up when they are done. Really don't want to see or talk to her right now. I both love her & hate her so much right now.

My S has started keeping a journal and I shouldn't have read it but I did. He keeps his feelings inside & I've been worried about him. His postings break my heart. He pleads w/God to heal his Mom & fix his family. For her to make the right choices & don't let Satan control her.

I keep getting washes of memories that break me down. Like past Disney trips, or just laying in bed holding each other. I wonder if she ever does or is dead inside to any positive emotion regarding me.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Very tough and it must seem that it's hopeless. Please believe you will be happy again This is an incredibly tough time and you have no choice but to endure it Their is one person who can help you with this and it's you you have to deal with this situation Get all the support you can and move forward. Like everyone I want the pain to go away but it takes time. Move on now. There is always hope and this need not be the end of your R. Live your life. You are a young man and have a lot of living to do. Be good to yourself.

I am not a vet and very very far from it but the above is my humble opinion

Take care. Rd

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I'm really sorry this happened. Be strong for yourself and your kids. Know things will get better.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
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Been trying to not have any interaction w/XW in the last couple of days. She called tonight so I could say goodnight to the kiddos. Its usually them on the phone first but not tonight. She said thatshe got a bill from daycare for $500. Apparently, she thought that I had been paying and how sweet that was (I di d from time to time) beacause they had not been emailing her. Tough s*it. Thats your problem and I'm not gonna get in the way of reality smacking you in the face! I just told her that that stinks and was sorry to hear that and asked to speak to my kids. I made sure to hang up so as not to talk to her again. She still hasn't mentioned that we are now divorced.

I did start the planning for the trip. We will be going dog sledding, ice skating, tubing, and wilk prolly ride in a horse drawn sleigh. Not to bad for a part time dad with two small kids in his own.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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So sorry Bravo. I'm shocked that she hasn't even acknowledged it yet. That's really really rough.


H 37 Me 36
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Married 5 years
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BD Apr 2014
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Bravo, I'm so sorry to hear about your sitch. It says a lot about her that she won't even acknowledge the D!

I'm confused about the daycare money issue though.. are you not responsible for childcare expenses at all?


Me 38 H 40
D 3
T 8 M 6
BD 10/2013

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Per the agreement I will begin payment of child support directly to her beginning jan 1. She sets the days that D goes (to daycare) and she usually makes those days that are most helpful to her. That's fine its not a burden to have her with me all day. We go to the liberry (her word), get her nails did, go to the mall and walk around.

Its sad that she treats the kids as a burden except when I'd like another day and then she "misses them so much". I pray that she finds herself everyday for her & the kids sake. She was so loving, generous, caring, considerate, selfless, & Godly.

I'm sure she still shows someone some of those attributes but not so much to me and the kids. I get not to me cause I hurt her but the kids deserve better. In spite of it all I choose to love her and I believe in her. Not her present actions but whom she is at her core. Will that Sweet Girl ever make a reappearance? I pray so because the world is a little brighter with her in it.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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So sorry to read this! The plans you made with your kids sound awesome.


Me: 38
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Kids: 2,4
T10 M6
BD: 1/14
11/14: H moves out
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just saw the XW. i was driving down the road and they (her & my D) saw my truck. D got really upset and wanted to see me really bad. XW called and asked if she could bring D by for about 15 min while she went and picked up S. it was great to see D she was so excited (haven't seen her since Wed morning). was cordial to XW. told her that i would be by at 6a to pick up the kids in the morning (so she could sleep-she works tonight same as me) and for her to leave the sitter a check.

she brought S back and we had a short visit. i asked her if she wanted to take the coffee i had bought a while back (i don't drink coffee but i thought she might want some if she ever came over). she said well i'll be going to days soon so maybe i could drink some over here? said sure why not. she did not offer a hug and i didn't ask for one or hint at one.

my S is doing a bible reading on sunday and she might go. i'm gonna reach out to some of the church members and ask that if they talk to her to just give her a hug and let her know that they love and miss her. gonna impress on them the no judgement part as i'm sure she'll be anxious about that(cause guilty concience). she wanted to take the kids from there but i asked her if she would consider picking them up later which would give her a chance to get some rest (she works Sat graveyard). i'm planning on giving her space there and walking her out and tell her that she showed class and grace in a tough situation and i'm proud of her. all while looking her in the eye. i figure if i can show her love in these circumstances, that may help me in forgiving her. that's my hope. who knows, God may use all of this as a wakeup call for both of us and bring us back together in a M that we should've been in all along.

any vets out there care to chime in on my action plan? or am i/this just a lost cause.

special thanks to the well wishes and prayers sent out from all y'all. it means a lot, especially as i feel all alone with no real support system out here.

on a brighter note, tomorrow me and the kids are going to a special Christmas light park early in the evening (with sleigh rides, hot chocolate, etc) and from there to the planetarium for the free public showing. we had planned for it last month but they cancelled it. i promised my kids i would take them and i ALWAYS keep my word (even if i had to beg for a day off to do it). i think that the XW will really be sad that she's missing out on our family life. BTW, she still hasn't mentioned that we are divorced.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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bravo61 Offline OP
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ok, guess i'm on my own.


M40 XW35
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Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Hi Bravo.

It sounds like you're being really positive so that's good.

I'm a little confused about the bible reading. If she is there I'm not sure how she will get the rest by taking them later unless your talking a several hours later. If that is what you mean then she might see that as eating in to her time with the kids.

Anyway as long as the offer is genuine and don't mind her decision (no expectations) then its fine.

The one caution im picking up is that it still feels a little like you're trying to 'rescue' her. Its all a fuzzy area for me so I may be misreading but its something to think about

Have a good day


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
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D paperwork in progress
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Hi. You are not on your own Vets chime in when they have advice. The rest of us offer support. My W just called in for 10 mins to see kids and left without even giving them a hug. We have no control over other people and especially the WAS We are the very last people they will listen to This is a very long journey whatever the outcome Your whole world has been turned upside down by the one person you could rely on Its so tough it's all most impossible to deal with but we have no choice Take care and detach and PMA Re

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wallowing

i saw the XW today. she came to church and sat in the back row. as soon as the kids were released from the stage, she took D and hid in the classrooms till the service was over. she couldn't bear the thought of seeing people that just over a 6 months ago were like family to her. after the service, i walked them to the car (she went by way of the outside so as not to run into anyone). while at the car i empathized that it must have been uncomfortable to come back and i thought she handled it with grace and class and was proud of her. she smiled and said thank you that is really nice of me to say.

so driving home all alone, i'm hit with a round of tear jerker songs-argh! keith anderson-i still miss you and lonestar-not a day goes by.

people i've been molested, abandoned by my family as a child, physically abused, shot, stabbed and i would go through that all again twice to get out of this pain i'm in now. it's not even just pain to me, but regret for what i put her through. yes God has forgiven me and i've forgiven myself but i still feel regret. like Card, i'm not suicidal, but i do understand that those people just want the pain to end. i'm sure that's part of the reason these WAS take down all the pics and revise history to try and dampen good memories to carry on their plan and to not feel loss and wonder if they are making the right choices.

my D started crying this morning because she saw a pic of a disney trip with all of us in it. she was crying saying why did mama have to break the pieces in your heart? why can't we be a family again and go to disney?

Lord, i'm sorry for all the wrong that i've done. you see into my heart and know that it wasn't on purpose. please heal K. please put a spirit of forgiveness in her heart and soften it. allow for a reconcilliation between us so that we can have the M that you intended. please keep them all safe. thank you for listening.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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have the kids tonight (yea!). took them to the grocery store and they wanted to get flowers for my apartment. told them they could pick. they picked a poinsetta. man, why that one? it reminded me of the first Christmas we were dating. i was living with two other guys and we didn't have a Christmas tree. we had a Christmas poinsetta. we strung lights up around it and bought liquor for each other and the lights would reflect off the glass.

reminded me how she and i danced in the light of the Christmas poinsetta liquor tree to Garth Brooks' "to make you feel my love".

damn this sux! bought it anyway because F it!


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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had a decent day today. my BIL (well XBIL) is in town for a couple of weeks. he wanted to go to dinner with me and the kids tonight. we had a great time. funny thing happened at dinner. i told the kids to say the blessing and they went into full blown prayers. D said Jesus let mommy and daddy get back together and stay together forever. S said Lord please heal mama and heal our family. i just said thank you for my family and for BIL's safe travel and take care of XW at her important work tonight.

afterwards, looked at him with a wry smile and said sorry, i get that stuff all the time. we got him a couple of cold weather gear items as we are going to the mountains for Christmas eve (inc. XW) and he is not much of a packer. kind of stuff i always did and he was appreciative. BIL is super close to her and i know he saw the different interactions that i now have with the kiddos.

went back to my apartment after dinner to hang out for a bit. we talked and laughed about old times (funny Disney trip stories-he went with us about 4 times) and other recollections. i asked about his new GF and their mom and grandad. it hit me that i have been in his life since he was seven. talked about law school and it was good to practice/continue to really listen to others. i know he saw a difference. what was cool was that i didn't even think about the different dynamic until we dropped him off. on a side note, when we went to pick him up, i texted him to come out(didn't want to see her) but she came out anyways. she spoke to D and gave me a hug. she also called the kids from work tonight but i had S hang up when he was done. found out that she is taking BIL to a play that i had mentioned that i wanted to take the kids to but don't have time to. it was good catching up with him. FWIW, i don't think he was to keen on her plan from the beginning. i told him that i knew he knew of her plan but i couldn't be mad at him for not giving me a head's up. i think that really shocked him as i used to be a major grudge holder.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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and she STILL has yet to acknowledge or mention that we are now DIVORCED! WTF?


M40 XW35
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Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Why don't you mention it to her?


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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I lost track: why are you waiting for her to acknowledge the D instead of doing it first?

Sounds like a very good interaction with your BIL. Your changes are showing.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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bravo61 Offline OP
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It's kinda weird to me that she won't own this. Btw thanks for commenting, the crickets were starting to hurt my ears.

Just got done with C. She said that until XW sees what D really is she has no reason to examine herself & her decisions. Our main goals are to keep me from being bitter (told her about my internal monologue regarding the reason I have empathy). She agreed that XW is in a phase right now and w/out me in the picture she will have to question if it was really all me making her unhappy. She stated that in her experience most WAS do experience regret but the LBS tend to have moved on.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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What do you mean by own this?

Again, why don't you bring it up to her?


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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About your bitterness: How would you like your W to approach you? What would make you open-minded, happy to open up and talk? Is it her laying out all that's wrong about you or her owning up to her mistakes?

It goes both ways: You will need to develop a monologue where you own up to your mistakes.

Right now, you might be short-sighted and see her departure as the mother of all sins, capped with lies, betrayal and more. But she didn't marry you to do this. She's likely hurt to go to such length. You have to recognize that she's doing this in part as a reaction to what she's endured over the years. Don't be too self-righteous, it won't help you.

As for the crickets, I encourage you to comment more on other people's threads. I see you've commented elsewhere only twice in the last 7 days. If we all comment only on our own threads, there won't be dialogues and reactions. Be the change you want to see in thee forums!


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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Bug, honestly I guess I'm scared to mention it. I hate this and never wanted it. I guess I have a scorecard in my head and don't realize/accept the game is over. I lost. She felt that this was the only way to save herself. That's what kills, it wasn't but it doesn't matter what I think.

Mozza, I'm not bitter and I don't want to be. I'm accepting my part of this by reminding myself everyday that my behavior drove her to this decision.

I am sad that her bitterness and anger (again partially my fault) has led her to where our family is. I've been in her state of mind and it does a terrible thing to a person and family.

This whole thing just [censored] and I have no one truly to blame for my behavior but myself.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Hey everyone. Please pray for my family (including XW) on today 12/18. It is the anniversary of our 1st date (16 yrs ago) & our engagement (12 yrs ago).

Im sure at some point tomorrow that will hit her. Im not gonna acknowledge it to her just gonna drink a beer & maybe go through the box of pics & gifts she gave me though the years. Just sad. Thanks.

I love you Sweet Girl & I'm sorry


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Not fun today. Just looked on FB to see if XW had put any or our life events on her page ie anniversary. Nope. She did however change her bday. Its now llisted as the day after the decree was signed. Quick someone remind me that this is a struggle for her & she still has feelings for me.

I will say that she hasn't been on FB today. I haven't & won't acknowledge today but she prolly has fear that I will on FB. Huge 180 on my part.

I feel like I'm crazy for still being so affected by this. I just miss her.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Stop looking on FB.

Control what you can control, stay off the roller coaster.

You set yourself up for these letdowns.

She's Dd from you and I know that's painful but it's reality.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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you are right bug. i'm not a quitter and i'm not ready to give up on this. i have two major concerns/questions.

given my life history, abandonment etc, i've always been a somewhat negative person. how do i change that? i don't want to be that anymore. i've made great strides but i would like to hear and i'm open to any suggestions here.

second, what is the best strategy with my xw right now? going dark? i'm concerned about that as i was in another state for around 10 months. also, when she dropped the bomb, the first thing she said was "we needed someone we could depend on". i don't call, text, or spend a lot of time trying to chat her up during exchanges and its actually been pretty easy. she does cometimes ask me if i'm mad at her to which i smile and say nope.

on the decision to be more positve, i'm going to list some things that have been positive in my sitch:
i'm a awesome dad (even she has commented)
she has said she still loves me
she has said i'm a good person
she has said i'm attractive
she's reminisced fondly on our sex life
i don't cry everyday anymore
i'm closer to the Lord
the kids actively act as matchmakers (no urging from me)
she's not dating anyone
i don't try to "rescue" her anymore
she wants a hug every time i see her (well almost everytime)

i sure could use some help folks and i will be the clay. and i really want to be a more positive person for me and my life just need some guidance. thanks! i want to be the Crimson 2015!


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Have you ever been in counseling?

You bring your past up quite often and it sounds painful. I'm sure it's affecting you. We have no control over what happened in the past but we have all the control over how we handle the future.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 414
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bravo61 Offline OP
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Yes Bug, I'm currently in counseling and have been since July. I've gotten SO much out of it and it has helped me work through my feelings of inadequacy within myself and the defensive coping skills I developed. Also it has done wonders with the anger issues I had.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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I'd forgotten that, it seems your past is still really haunting you.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 414
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It's more regret that I hid from it for so long and it has helped me get to the place I am today. I just buried it and pretended I was fine. I have and will continue to address it as 25 would say "from this day forward".


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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got a text from XW about the schedule of pickup of the kids tomorrow. i didn't answer so she had her brother (that's here visiting) text me and ask the same question (really?). texted her back and got that all squared away. she had also texted me earlier about picking up S at D's daycare on a date in a couple of weeks (guess she has to work overnight) and keeping him until 8a when she will be back. told her sure no problem. yeah, i couldv'e told her that i had to work late, or i couldn't do it and make her py but i don't want to be that person any more.

she has said before that she thinks that i will revert back after the D and she had a "plan" for that. whatever that means.

on a positive note, the big trip with the kids is starting tomorrow. really excited. i never thought that i would be taking my kids dogsledding by myself one day. well, we're gonna make our own "family" memories without the XW. she could've been a part of them but this is her choice. i am a little nervous about a 3 hr drive to a place i've never been before with two kids but you know what, that's what an adventure is! wish us luck!


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Why didn't you answer her text about your kids? What would you have thought if she'd done that to you?


Me 57/H 58
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I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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Bug, I didn't answer immediately, it wasn't that I had no intention of answering. Her brother texted me with the same question less than 20 minutes later. I was in another room(from my phone) trying to sleep for graveyard shift. She does do that from time to time (texts when she knows I'm sleeping or trying to) but that's fine, I actually expect it now.

If she had done that to me I would have believed she didn't want to hear from me. I think she takes her phone in the shower. I really would not feel much of anything as I almost never text her first. When I have the kids, I have the mindset that I'm on my own. I wouldn't contact her for help. Not out of spite, but I feel I have to have that mindset.


M40 XW35
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Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

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hello all and Merry Christmas!

just keeping y'all up to date. the kids and i got back from our trip on wed 12/23. we had a GREAT time. there was really only one hitch in the trip. after dinner one night, we came out to my truck to a flat tire. not fun but an adventure nonetheless. it's funny that years down the road "that time we had a flat on vacation in Bend" will be one of the stories that they will remember.

we met up w/the XW and BIL on wed morning to go to the local mountain for snowtubing and Christmas Eve dinner. on the way out, she wanted to go by her apt office to pick up a package. i offered to run in and she immediately got pissed at me. i told her i was sorry just wanted to help as it was difficult for anyone else to get out. later on she apologized and said that her snap reaction was that i was trying to disregard her plan. i told her that after years of (her)feeling that way i could see her point and i was sorry to make her feel like that.

got the the mountain and had a great time snowtubing. she even went down with me several times. the kids had a blast and the BIL did too.

then we went to dinner. i had planned out and packed clothes for the kids and i to change into for dinner and packed them in a bag. she was SO impressed at the planning and attention to detail (another 180 that is second nature to me at this point). at dinner, i always let her pick her seat first (never used to & it was an unspoken sore spot for her). she picked her seat and then asked if i would like to sit by her. i did and then she asked the kids about the trip. the kids went on and on and even mentioned the tire. she was shocked (flat tire type snafus were always a huge source of stress to me/us) at how i handled everything. i didn't tell her how i handled anything, the kids were doing that. she looked me square in the eye and told me how proud she was of me and that it sounded awesome. she mentioned how she was afraid that i had been off to much to handle and she didn't think she could have done it by herself.she asked to see some of the pictures and wanted to see my FB page. she even commented on the outfits that i dressed the kids in. and that i had done none of these things and she would've been hard pressed to handle any of the things i did by myself. i mentioned to her that i'm gonna plan some other great trips for me and the kids (Canada and other national parks).she also wanted to share a bottle of wine and wanted us all to take a pic together. after dinner, i got them off the mountain safe in a driving snowstorm. she said that she had a great time and was interested in doing this as a tradition.

after i got them home, the kids went to bed and she called me back to bring my presents and to do the kids stockings. i got there and was working on the stockings when she noticed that i messed up with the paper and wrapped some gifts with same paper as "Santa" gifts. honest mix up on my part. she had made a deal few weeks ago about how in the past i would get gifts late in the game and the numbers would be off. i made sure i didn't do that this time, but apparently the paper is a huge deal too. she proceeded to ream me out. i told her i was sorry and it was a mistake and not intentional. and hey, the numbers are the same so i'm trying. she told me how Christmas is a huge deal to her because of her Grandmother (passed away). i told her again i was sorry. she was so heated that her bro told her to keep it down and not wake the kids.

i hated to be chewed out but i was kinda glad that someone else got to see it. i didn't lose my cool and say anything unkind back [even when she said "just because your family didn't have any traditions outside of leaving tags on gifts doesn't mean you can mess up mine-she was trying to make a joke (ha ha)]. i just said when i was done "ok, i'm gonna go". she said that i didn't have to leave and i just said simply that i did and i left.

she texted me later that she was sorry for being so ungracious. i told her that i forgive her and after so many years of me not realizing how hard she worked to make Christmas special, i could see how she would believe that i did things like that intentionally. and that looking back i can appreciate how hard she did work and what a fabulous job she always did. i was sorry for not looking past myself to notice it and i wish i could go back and do things differently. she said that this stuff was a particularly big deal to her and she never really explained to me how big. i told her that i wish i did know and i'd really like to know & that if its important to her its important and special and i don't want to do anything that doesn't support that. she thanked me and let me know that meant a lot to her. i told her thanks for letting me share the day with them and she affirmed that it was a great day.

i came over early for gifts.on the gift side, she got me three seasons of Downton Abbey. we had started watching it together before i moved out. i laughed and said that i was the only 40 year old man that would be watching it by himself. she said that i didn't have to watch it by myself and that she would watch it with me. i told her to just let me know when she wanted to. it was good to watch the kids open their gifts and she really liked the ones the kids got her. she loved the gift i got her and it was nice because i had no expectations for her in regard to the gift. when i left, i gave her a kiss on the cheek and she stiffened a little. i told her sorry that i didn't think about it. she said that it was fine and we hugged and i left.

man i miss my family.

Merry Christmas all!

Last edited by bravo61; 12/26/14 01:26 AM.

M40 XW35
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Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

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i will say that she sat between the kids in the back and when i would look in the rearview, i could see her face. man did she have a lot on her mind. she was thinking constantly. she had moments of looking very stressed. couple of times i looked, she looked back at me and smiled kinda sad sometimes real smiles. i know that she is stressed about her work schedule next month.

something interesting i forgot to mention.
the kids lately have been saying that mama is different and they know that i don't really like to talk about her or to her. they know i love their mom and they are getting scared that i'm moving on. they have both started saying "daddy, please don't give up on mama. please don't give up!"

tough to deal with...


M40 XW35
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Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

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I think you did a great job bravo61. Very composed and IMHO detached. You were noticing how your W reacted to your composure and care for your kids... but it seems you we're not working for her attention... you were just doing the right thing. Very inspirational. I like posts where LBS are interacting in stand up positive ways with their spouses. I'll do more to model your example.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
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Good job Bravo.. Keep it up!!..


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S: 8/2014
W has new BF: 12/2014
Still fighting the good fight!!..
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Merry Christmas. Good job hanging in there dude.


Me: 35
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D : 16
S : 9
Together: 14 years
Married: 12
She left 4/14/2014
Separated: 5/25/2014
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that's Ditto for my Bravo!!!! Way to go!!!!


Together 06-04
Married 10-05
She Left 10-11-14
I filed 10-22-14

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wow thanks guys. i do feel not quite as on edge around her lately.

speaking of which she just left. i took the kids to church and then to a movie (annie-uh) but we had a great time just being together. she brought her brother by to say goodbye to the kids. she came in and immediately asked if we went to a movie so i guess she's starting to pay attention to my facebook. she also mentioned that my D plays her jewelry box every nite before bed (has our song on it-the one that i played for her to settle before bed since she was one). XW sent a text to that effect chrismas nite with a winky face. no response from me. no communication from then until today.

gave my BIL a hug and told him if he wants to do a ride along back home i can make it happen. told him he could've ridden w/me here and i had offered it to her. she said that she would like to do that here cause she would like to ride w/me (would have had to ride w/someone else back home). she mentioned that she so happy that the kids and i do fun things (made a point not to invite her right now). we made small talk about her work schedule and smiled a little back and forth. i affirmed her that she does a great job at work and i know she'll continue to do great. she likes my new couch and made herself comfortable. my D showed her her room and told her that Daddy took all the pics of mama out of his room and put them in hers.

for GAL, tomorrow i'm taking the kids to the OR coast to a aquarium. in Jan, i'm taking them on a train to Seattle to see the wharf and space needle. looking forward to it.

i also found out that a friend of hers from back home had no idea about any of this and is pissed. i made sure that i owned up to my contribution to the ending of our R and did not down XW.

i will say that so many people believe that she is going through pphase and think that she will snap out of it with time. i wish i could believe that but i cannot base my life off of that. i'm gonna continue to take care of me and continue on my journey and hhopefully she will take care of her issues and maybe someday we can reunite in the R that God intended for us to have. hope everyone is doing well.


M40 XW35
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hello all in limbo/divorce land.

just got off the phone with the XW. she talked to the kids and then asked to speak to me. she asked what time i would like for her to come get the kids. i told her since she is working overnite tonight that if she wanted to wait until 2p that would be fine as i want her to get the opportunity to sleep. she said that she misses the kids and will come at noon. told her great and i'd see her then. i started to hang up and she said wait, she wanted to talk about something else. she said that donwton abbey new season starts sun and she wanted to watch it and i might want to catch up on the season (i haven't watched since season 2-w/her). i told her that i was bummed that i wouldn't be able to catch up. she said that she would love to watch it with me. i told her that i would DVR it and she could come over after the kids were in bed (here) and watch it together. i also told her that i had beer here. she said that sounds awesome and she's looking forward to it. told her to have a safe shift and i knew she would do great.

i'm mildly excited about that exchange and set plans for sun. but i'm not jumping over the moon. whatever happens, happens. it's out of my control. i'm gonna be myself at this point.

any suggestions, or am i on the right track?

on a GAL note, after running it by her (so as not to make her the bad guy if she said no-respecting her boundaries and request) she gave the ok for me to take the kids to Seattle on a 2 day trip over MLK weekend. we're gonna take a train and take in some sites and spend one nite there. the kids are loving all the adventures i'm taking them on. people have asked me about all the activities. i said that these were the things that i wanted to do as a family before i moved here. then i said, oh well, the show must go on...

hope everyone has a good day tomorrow.


M40 XW35
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Papers del 10/3/14
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Awesome! Looks like you are on the right track. Good for you. Gives me hope!


H49 W48
She left 12/25/2013

SS26 SS 24 D20 S19 D 18

Wife moved out left 17, 18 an 19 yr olds at home when I was incarcerated for tax evasion to take a job and live 4 hours away.

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Question for the vets.

Should I spend the time with the XW on Sun nite? I have zero expectations but I don't see us as friends. The time will be spent with me alone. She's not coming over till after the kids are asleep so it's not "family" time. She has not exhibited any warming up behaviors this week and I've maintained my distant but pleasant attitude.

Could use some other perspectives.


M40 XW35
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Papers del 10/3/14
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Anyone?


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Hi Bravo,

my unvet opinion is why not? but its about what feels right. If you want to build a relationship with her then this may be the way, you just need to be relaxed on fun, but not pursue.

if you think it will be uncomfortable for you then i would avoid it, but having said that you've made the plan.

she is coming to see you so dont dismiss it as no warming up behaviour


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Yes do it no expectations. Have fun.


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Thanks Jim and HP. I was starting to wonder if I was back on moderation.

Yeah, I'm definitely not pursuing as this was her idea. In the spirit of trying to be more positive im going to treat this as a baby step. Just gonna enjoy it for what it is. Time spent w/a beautiful woman drinking wine and watching a show with a fire in the fireplace. Wait a minute, I just described a date.WTF? She's confusing. LOL.

Any and all comments/advice is definitely welcome.


M40 XW35
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From me

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just relax is the best advice i can give. try and take all the tension out of it for you. tension breeds tension (God am i feeling that today) fun breeds fun

but NO EXPECTATIONS and NO PURSUING - i know you know this but it really needs a massive neon sign anyway


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And not too much wine Bravo....make sure you can keep up the DB approach....harder when you're a bit liquored up!

And remember - no expectations - expect nothing to happen other than watching a show and drinking wine with your 'neighbour.'


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SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
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Originally Posted By: bravo61
Question for the vets.

Should I spend the time with the XW on Sun nite? I have zero expectations but I don't see us as friends. The time will be spent with me alone. She's not coming over till after the kids are asleep so it's not "family" time. She has not exhibited any warming up behaviors this week and I've maintained my distant but pleasant attitude.

Could use some other perspectives.


I would have asked for more info but how did it go?


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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Bug, its sun morning here so its not till tonite.

I don't plan on drinking but maybe a glass. Trust me there will be no pursuing on my part nor any expectations. I haven't initiated a call or text in prolly three months.


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Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

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I wasn't looking at whne they were written, thanks for pointing that out.

So why did she come up with this plan? What's the purpose fo the visit?


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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Not really sure. She got me a couple of seasons of the show. When we talked the other nite she mentioned that the season premiere was tonite. She said if I wanted to dvr it she would enjoy watching it w/me. I have the kids but she said she would wait to come over after they were asleep. I know when we first started dating, we bonded over Dawsons Creek. Don't laugh.


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'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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I'm not laughing.

Be careful with the wine.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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Ok. I need someone to talk me off the ledge. I'm furious. My S just told me that his grandmother doesn't like me. I asked him why he'd say that. He said he saw a text from her (XW mother) that said congrats on the divorce. Yeah, hurting the kids deserves a "congrats". That's BS but indicative of the way I've been portrayed. I've taken ownership at every turn but Damon it I'm tired as being portrayed as the only person that made mistakes. I haven't been this mad in a while. First thought was to send a text to x mil to ask if it were true and then respond w/disappointing if it was. But I didn't. I'm here instead. That is so frustrating.


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I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
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Very laid back. Plenty of joking around. She sat on couch I sat in my chair. I took her jacket from her when she got here & hung it up. Hhelped her into it when she left. She brought wine. At different points of the show I would make a clever comment she would look over at me and laugh or smile. Walked her out and she initiated hug and said it was fun. Didn't ask her if we will do it again. She will have to initiate that. She didn't get on her phone 1 time. Absolutely no pressure from me. Caught her a couple of times glancing at me. Kissed her forehead when she left.She made a comment bout some art she saw last week and I referenced it into the show. Example of my new found listening skills. Didn't bring up the text from her mom. She also gave me her work schedule for Jan and she is super stressed about it. Oh well.


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That sounds very positive. Baby steps.


Me 52 H 44
T9 M 5
BD 12/11 H
split 8/12
OW moved in 12/12
OW gone for good 6/14
We get closer again 9/14
SD 13 Me 4 Grown





Accept what is...let go of what was and have faith in what will be.
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Kinda sad today. Missing my family. Watched a rick warren sermon in youtube called fighting for your marriage. Very powerful. A lot of the things he mentioned we didn't do right or know.

Its difficult cause she was so strong spiritually wnd since she's been here thwts gone. Added to her poor choice in associates there are No positive influences in her life. Well I'm one but she can't/won't see that.

The other night I had such a real dream that we were in our old house and she came up behind me & hugged me from behind. It woke me up it was so real.

Im sure part of why its so bad is cause I miss my kids. Just down today. Still don't understand the rush to r divorce. She's not any happier.


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Excited to get the kids this morning. The XW was there and had clothes on to go to bed including no bra (she worked graves last nite same as me). She seemed excited to share work stories and I told her how proud I am of her to do such a great job. That seemed to please her, which is cool but not my intent. I am sincerely proud of her work!

Got the kids and was heading out the door to church when she reminded me of the show (Downton). She said she'd like to watch with me again this week but can't Sun nite due to work. I said fine I. DVR ing it and if I'm free when she's ready we can watch together. Still just looking at it as watching a show together. The kids will be in bed so it will again be alone time. Still no pressure.

Hope everyone is doing well.


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'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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and the yo-yo continues.

XW called and said that she had S because school called and he had a fever. she brought him by to drop him off to me. he was miserable. gave him a big hug when he came through the door. we chit chatted a little (she told me of her house hunt) and she asked if we could watch the show tomorrow nite after i put the kids in bed. i said sure and noticed that she was lookin around while talking to me. she noticed that i had a slide show on the computer monitor of a lot of our pics through the years. didn't say anything but i could see her make a mental note.

anyways, we walked her out as we were going to pick up D from daycare. she opened her arms and i said S go get your hug. she smiled and said it was for me. he hugged her and then i hugged her (10 second hug with arms around waist) and kissed her forehead. when i pulled back, my hands were still on her waist and she had a smile on her face when i looked in her eyes. in that moment, i so wanted to kiss her.

S reached out to hug me and pulled her in as well, it felt awesome!! and i know she felt it too, she kinda squeezed me in and my face was pressed against her neck. walked her over to her car and opened the door for her. she reached out for another hug.

forgot to mention on sun, when we left she said "bye, i love you all".

it is what it is, can't control any of it, only continue to work on me. it still [censored] though!


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even my S pointed out how good the hug was and how happy it made him feel. almost like a family according to him


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well just spent about an 1 1/2 hrs of alone time w/XW. it was a good time. she came over after the kids were asleep. when she came in, i helped her off w/her jacket and scarf and hung them up. turns out she had made an offer for a house and it was accepted. she's stressed, excited, nervous, etc. she even said that she would love to have me live in the same area if i can.

we watched the show and shared a beer. we had a good time and smiled and laughed together. i noticed a couple of times she was kinda looking off into space thinking hard. when she was getting ready to go, she gave me a big hug and thanked me for watching the show with her and had a good time. i helped her into her jacket and wrapped the scarf around her neck, or tried to but didn't do it quite right. walked her out to the car (what i've always done-Southern gentleman safety thing) and she wanted another hug before getting into her car. kissed her forehead and she left.

part of me wonders if this time spent together is her wanting a ringside seat to watch to see if i really am different without committing and/or risking hurt and her heart.

oh well, nothing i can do about that. not gonnna get my hopes us but it was nice and if more came of it that would be nice. but i have no expectations of that. she does know that i will never be just "a friend".

one thing that bothered me was that she said that S has really been down the past couple of weeks. i know its because the reality of the situation is hitting him hard but i guess she can't/won't see that. unfortunately, it's not for me to point that out. she has to come to that conclusion herself.

hope everyone is doing well.
Good luck out there...


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I'd love to get some input. Am I doing any of this right?


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Bump


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Hey Bravo,

So let me get this right.

Your wife, who divorced you is spending quality time with you, and you want to know if you're doing anything right?

Well...you're not doing stuff that makes her want to stay away.

Right now seems like a good idea to keep letting her see the man she misses, and I'll suggest she misses you cause she is spending time with you. She could be anywhere, instead she's watching reruns of Dawson's Creek with you. (Sorry going ot make fun of that.)



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

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hey Jack,
thanks so much for the reply. for the record its not Dawson's Creek. i've graduated from a teen show to a girl show (Downton Abbey).

i just didn't know if this was positive or not. i know the concern for the friend zone is pretty rampant around here. i have made it clear to her from the beginning that i will never be "just friends".

also early on during the begging/pleading stage. i laid out for her how a reconnection would look to me (she asked for specifics). i told her that we would take time getting to know one another hence building trust. examples were given of spending time together so she could be sure that i was not the same man. time taken SLOWLY and not rushed or pressured by me (ie temp checking, unwanted physical touching). i also stressed that the kids would not be told until it was on a very firm footing.

positives: i only cry every once in a while;
the kids and i are really close;
i've got a much better attitude about life in general, like going on adventures and trying new things;
i don't hate her;
getting plugged into church and MUCH closer relationship with God;
learned and practicing unconditonal love and teaching that to my kids;
she's receptive and intiates hugs;
she seems to like it when i kiss her forehead;
learned patience;
anger is no longer an issue;
she's not dating yet

negatives: we're still divorced;
memories sometimes come in waves;
kids say things to her she sometimes blames on me;
she's surrounded herself with questionable characters;
she rarely talks to me on the phone;
she's painted me as a monster (would make it harder to reconcile);
oh yeah, AND WE'RE DIVORCED!

doing the best i can to be a better man. any suggestions for me or my sitch would be greatly appreciated!

Last edited by bravo61; 01/16/15 01:05 AM.

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I'll respond tomorrow. I DB 8-4pm Alaska Time.

Till then keep up the good work.

And friendzoned? Its a fictitious place passive aggressive guys make up because they aren't honest enough with a woman about what they want in a relationship...so it should be pretty easy to avoid; right?



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

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Don't most R start with being friendly?


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I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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Bravo,

A couple of things.

1) If you're looking for a definitive secret process...there isn't one. This is all trial and error, with the hope that the errors aren't serious enough to doom the process.

So the adage: Keep doing what works, is fundamental.

2) MY strength is with MLC, and I don't think your wife is in one. So my tactics are founded in a LONG game, nothing quick...and I don't recommend it if you don't have to...in fact I'm not sure I recommend it if you do have too. : )

For you I hope Starsky; Mr Bond and some others take you under their wing, you have some pretty good positives here that I think can be built on.

3) Please remember this though...everyone is unique here...we ALL have the same problems and we all make the same mistakes...over and over and over again and I can tell you right now we all know how your going to defend yourself when you make mistakes or go off the program. : ) But we are all unique in how we react or interact or have others(Spouse) interact with us. So if advice is not working even from a Vet, don't be afraid to tell them and to change it.

YOU are BOOTS on the ground, we are safe in the bunker drinking coffee giving you orders, you shouldn't wait for us to tell you to duck, right?

oh yeah and then this as a positive:

Quote:

learned patience;


LOL...no you haven't. Not yet. : )

So advice.

Can you enjoy what you have at the moment? Does something need to change, or can this last awhile longer before you change it up and see it it gets better or worse?

Changing it up will make it better or worse...it might stay the same, but unlikely. So you need to be able to accept the new outcome, a bad one will result in lost effort, she might not be ok with coming over and watching TV with you even if you go back to what you were doing before the change.

So I'll ask does it need to change right now?

about your negatives:

Quote:

oh yeah, AND WE'RE DIVORCED!


Yeah...so whats the worst that can happen? Will she divorce you again?

Sometimes you can only go up, and that's not bad actually.



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet

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i appreciate your insight Jack.

just got back from a pretty much two day trip to Seattle with the kids. they had never ridden on a real train before so they loved that. we did a lot of stuff in just a little time. let's see, we went to the space needle, seattle children's museum, rode the monorail, seattle aquarium, the great wheel (big ole ferris wheel), and visited the world famous pike place market. not to bad for a single dad that had never been there before. it was a challenge doing it all (well almost all) on foot with D4 and S8 and traversing the various transportations. never really felt comfortable or wanted to do anything like this in my past life. we had a GREAT time. at times i did miss having a partner (her specifically).

during the trip, the XW called and talked to the kids and then wanted to talk to me. she said she was so proud of me and that the kids sounded so happy.

she watched the show without me. i was hoping she would wait for me but oh well. her schedule (work) has been and will be packed the past few and next several days. don't know when we would've watched but it woulda been nice.

on a side note, kids are already asking when/where our next great adventure will be so i better get to planning. also, i have been trying to teach the kids about helping others so D gave her boxed up fries to a bum by herself and i was really proud. she walked up and said "are you hungry? you can have my fries". it was very sweet.

so i guess for right now, it is status quo with the XW. i'll still let her drive the train so far as time spent together. any suggestions/ideas are always appreciated.

hope everyone has a good day!

Last edited by bravo61; 01/20/15 08:39 PM.

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From me

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Been awhile since I posted.
Not much has happened. We haven't watched the show together again yet. We have had a couple of interactions that in the past would have turned into fights and blaming. But with the behavior I've learned and used all these months, that was averted.

She told me that she might pick up a shift that would keep her from coming over to watch the show but that she would let me know. Well she didn't (and no I had no expectations). Instead, I saw that she had gone out drinking with her friends via FB pic post. Instead of calling her on it immediately, I thought about why it bothered me. It bothered me that she didn't let me know as she said she would.

The next dday when she came to pick up D, I very calmly explained to her that I wasn't mad but that I'd like to have a relationship in which there is a level of trust (this has been a huge problem making promises to the kids and I get to deal w/their disappointment) for each other. She knew immediately what I was talking about & to her credit she wasn't as defensive as she has been before. I told her it was fine and I'll never bring it up again as I'm done with the scorekeeping. She tried to go into what all she did that night & I gently told her it was none of my business. She apologized and said that she had a rough time working nights & all the shifts. She said that her scheduling and remembering things,even to send off bills, has really suffered. I empathized and let her know that I'm sure she's doing the best she can. When she left she gave me a big hug and even smiled & waved from the car.

Later on that evening I sent her a text to thank her for listening. She responded that she was sorry again and thanked me for being gracious.

Part two in next post


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My S let me know that she has my FB page blocked from her feed. He asked her if she ever sees the pics of our adventures and she said no they don't come up on her phone. Guess the things she is missing out on would be painful.

Second almost confrontation occurred when she wanted the kids on a Tuesday. The agreement gives me a minimum of two consecutive days but the yearly overnight totals are higher to factor in change in shift, sick days, just extra now and then but don't specify. For around the past month 1/2 I've had them from Sun-wed am. She's worked a lot (& gone out) so she decided that since she was working Wed-Fri, she wanted to see them more than just at bedtime. She told me on Fri that she wanted them. I kept my cool & stated that wasn't my preference(but knew I couldn't do anything bout it). I picked them up on Sun and she could tell I was still bothered. I don't said I'm gonna miss them on Tuesday. She looked me dead in the eye and said "I've missed them. I get a turn". I almost flipped my shi!t!!!!! Instead I gave no hug turned and walked away.

Randomly, the next day, she sent a text saying that she had gotten a massage that was covered by a gift cards that my D gave her for Christmas a d thanked me. I didn't respond.

So on Tuesday, she picked up D. She said I seemed mad. Told her I wasn't but that the I get a turn comment didn't sit right with me. She said that she "feels as if I'm mad". I calmly ask her if I've raised my voice or said any unkind thing to her to which she could only respond no (I said all with a wry smile and a quiet voice). I explained that I was sorry that she missed the kids & I understand I miss them too. But this is the choice that she made that we ALL have to live with. I asked her if she could put herself in my shoes how she would feel (she turned her head away at this point and cast her eyes down). She said that she's given me extra days, I told her I appreciate that & they also happened to coincide w/benefiting her(ie going out, working xtra shifts). I explained that even if I got them 3 days a week, she gets them four. What happens on my days I'm responsible for & vice versa.

Walked them out to the car and put D in. Asked her if they were gonna be around on Vday (had stuff for the kids). She said they will but she's going out to a tasting w/a female friend for a few hours so they'll have a sitter.

READ THAT LAST LINE AGAIN. I didn't say anything and I didn't lose my shi!t. I pick them up on Sun so she's giving up half of her only day off w/the kids to do that. After taking one of my usual days.
The kids notice stuff like that

She gave me a hug and thanked me for being gracious. Once again gave a smile & wave when she left.

Both of these occurrences were HUGE progress for me and total 180s from whom I used to be. I'm giving her an example to pattern herself after and if she chooses not to that fine, I'll still be a person I'm proud to be.


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Bravo,

I don't have much to add except good job. You're getting upset appropriately and maintaining your calm otherwise.

Damn good job.



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet

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On the GAL front my kids an I have:
Gone to a rollerderby match
Been exploring restaurants downtown
Been to a NBA game
I gave a profession of faith in church that turned into a small testimony-even apologized to my S for not being the example I should've been & told him how proud of him & how much I love him
Randomly drove to next state for candy for the kids
We are going to be "greeters" at church this Sun
D and I took candy (westerners no less) & flowers to a local retirement home
D and I passed out "candy for smiles" downtown

We've done so much fun stuff that I've had to assure a friend that yes, I do homework with the kids, they have chores, we read the bible and pray together, and still cuddle on the couch at night. All the mundane less glamorous everyday stuff.

And speaking of no scorecards, after the "I get a turn exchange" I took the kids to the mall for them to pick her out b day gifts.

I got her a card and I'm sending flowers (daisys). Her Grandmother used to send her b'day flowers (as if they came from her Grandfather) but since she died, XW figured it out & has missed them. It's cool cause I have no expectations for her even to acknowledge them. I'm doing it for me, because I want to, because it's the right thing.


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Thanks for your kind words Jack. It is gratifying to own the responses to my anger now instead of being owned. I don't really have to think about it really.


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Candy referred above: Werthers. Dang spell check!


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That was weird.
My S called to say goodnight and that he misses & loves me. My D then gave me the same message & then said she was going to hand me off to Mama. I felt like she prolly didn't ask to talk to me so I hung up to prevent the ackward unasked for convo.

XW called back 1 minute later and told me that she wanted to wish me a early Happy Valentine's Day. I responded with surprise the same. She sounded really warm. She shared that my D loves the stuffed animal we made at the build a bear store for VDay for her. She then said that the kids conned her into taking them to early breakfast and asked me if I would like to go. She even made it early so I wouldn't lose out on too much sleep. I said sounds good meet y'all there.

Im stoked that I'll get to see my kids on a day that's not mine. Oh yeah, the schools are closed on Mon round here so we will have hours of uninterrupted GAL time!

Hope everyone has a good day!


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It was awesome to see the kids this morning. They both came running up and jumped into my arms. It's amazing the change in this dynamic. The kids just want to be with me and are all smiles and loving and affectionate. They both practically ignored her the entire time and kept reaching out and touching me and kissing me. D said that she wanted to sit by daddy. Every time I got up to do something, they both wanted to go to. I had a huge grin the whole time. At one point the XW(who was watching the interactions smiling) said it would make a great picture but she left her phone in the car. You could have knocked me over w/a feather. She took the pic w/mine and asked me to send it to her.

When I first got there, my D was in my arms& had a huge smile & said "Daddy I'm so glad we're all together as a family." My heart twinged for a moment hearing that. She went and told XW that to little response.

The XW told me bout her work and that she may have other job opportunities coming up that would allow her to parent the way she wants. I actively listened and told her I'm not surprised so many hospitals want her on her team. She expressed her frustration at the housing search. Walked them out to the car and she initiated the hug and told me Happy Valentine's day. She said that she would keep me updated on the job/condo stuff.

It was interesting to notice that she was really watching my interactions with the kids. She had a smile(wistful/sad?) on her face the whole time.

Oh well, can't wait to pick up the kids tomorrow. We have been asked to be greeters at church. Another first!

Last edited by bravo61; 02/15/15 12:30 AM.

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So I got spun up because the XW posted a pic on FB w/her and a friend of hers from church. They were posing on a beach, at sunset, at a beer festival, on Valentine's day, she bought the friend high end candy, and they were posed in a way that looked more than friends (everyone agreed). I didn't call and ask if she were now gay, but it kinda freaked me out.

I ended up seeing XW next day for kid pick up at her new church (noticed friend wasn't w/her -although they were going to have lunch). Kids ran & jumped into my arms. Chit chatted w/her for a sec & decided, screw it. After she gave me a hug I impulsively kissed her cheek, with a smile from her. "Hey, you wanna watch the show this week?" She started hemming & hawing so I said well if you decide let me know and I walked away.

She texted me less than 3 minutes later " how about Tuesday nite?" Replied sounds great I'll provide the wine.

She came over and the first thing she did was give me a hug and remarked that I looked happy. Helped her off w/her jacket (after asking her if I could).Told her ME & the kids had a great time. She said that she had really missed them on Mon.(sent e-mail asking me to let them know she was thinking bout them-never responded to it). We drank wine, she complimented the candles I was burning, and we watched the show. We interacted some during the show and flirted a time or two. I helped her off the couch and she slid into another hug and said it was fun. She mentioned her church friend was down about being on her own during Valentine's and that's why they went to beer tasting and the candy. She brought it up on her own. So join fly I asked if she got a kiss from her date. She genuinely laughed and said it was never offered.

She asked to peek in on the kids while they were asleep. She said the pics we put up in there room were great (pics of me & them). Helped her into her jacket and I walked her out to her car. Kinda hoped that she wanted a kiss when she put some lip balm on but I had no expectations. Opened her car door for her and she opened up for another hug and I kissed her forehead. She smiled and said tonight was fun. I smiled right back and said you're welcome to come again.

It's a little frustrating. When it's me & her, we have fun and there's a connection there. Then she gets around or talks to the peanut gallery & then I'm screwed. I. Sure that's why she doesn't want any of them to meet me.

Oh well, counting down the days till I see the kids again!

Last edited by bravo61; 02/18/15 08:53 AM.

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From me

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Rough without the kids. Yesterday the kids called me before bedtime and my D went into full blown meltdown cause she misses me, begging me to come see her. XW asked if I could/would see D in the am (I was at work). Said sure ill be there straight from work (7a). D didn't settle until I promised (everyone knows when I promise its a sure thing).

Got there and got to wake up D and she jumped into my arms. Snuggled her & S on the couch. While there, XW told me bout her interviews from previous day (being recruited by other hospitals). I let her know how proud of her I am & how amazing at her job she is. At one point while I was rubbing my S back, I looked up and she was just wstching us and smiling.

After 20 minutes or so I announced I better go. She immediately told me I fould stay longer and I didn't have to leave. Just said yeah I better go while smiling at her. She walked me to the door and gave me a big hug.

Will see her again on Sun and I'm planning on telling her im gonna watch the replay of our show on Mon nite and she is welcome to join me. She doesn't work on Tues and tha t was how last week worked. She wanted to watch on a day that wasn't before s work day. How does this plan sound? Her saying no will not change my plans. I would like to keep any forward momentum going but have no expectations for it.


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Sounds good to me - as long as you truly keep those expectations at zero! And, as you say, do your own thing regardless that night. She may or may not choose to join you - no problem!


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hello all.

update: saw the XW on Sun for pickup. it was great to see the kids! i got to wake them up with kisses and they woke right up in a great mood. i told them about the day's activities i had planned. i was going to take them to a children's theatre to see The Jungle Book. my S being 8, was pessimistic about liking it. i reminded him that he said the same thing about Boxtrolls and he ended up loving it. the XW stepped in and told a story about the time i took her to see a movie she didn't want to see but ended up loving it. of course, she didn't tell me she liked it for 6 months, maintaining her hatred for it. that was one of the things we always laughed about-that she hates something as much as that movie (which meant she loved it). kinda shows how stubborn she is. but she told the story with a smile on her face.

that little thing kinda made me feel good. she remembered and brought up a happy memory without any prompting from me. doesn't change anything but i like it. i asked D what day it was (usually answered with a Daddy Day) and she looked at XW and said Family Day? XW couldn't hide the sadness that swept across her face for a second.

on GAL note we had a great time at the performance and the kids got their pics with a lot of the cast. S, of course, loved it.

i also told her that i was watching the show on Mon and she said that she might have something to do and she would let me know. i said cool got a hug and left.

she texted me later that day and said that the plans she had were her working (she couldn't remember what it was at the time). she asked if i would wait until Tues nite so she could join me. i texted back "ok but just this once" with a wink.

weirdness. oh well off to soak up my kids!! hope everyone is doing well!!

Last edited by bravo61; 02/23/15 11:36 PM.

M40 XW35
M11 T15
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Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Hi bravo

Just checking in. How's it going?


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
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hey jim, thanks for checking in.

the XW came over a little early on Tues evening and we all watched Maleficence (sp?). she came in and immediately gave me a hug. the kids were back and forth to me and her. she did respect the fact that it was my night and did not try to interject herself in our routine which i appreciated and let her know. we watched the show after i got the kids and bed. we drank wine and flirted a little. she told me that the house search was not going as good as she'd like. i listened and let her know i knew she'd make a good choice. she asked to see some of the pics of the things we have done lately and asked me to text them to her (a lot of them had me in them). walked her out to her car to leave and we had a longer hug and she wanted me to kiss her forehead.

i did say something that she told me offended her. i immediately said i'm sorry and i didn't mean to offend her (male joke about a cousin that i got along with-guess she's sensitive to that). i reassured her that i like him and would never demean him intentionally. she accepted the apology and nothing else was mentioned.

her birthday is friday and i'm just gonna stop by and drop off the gifts the kids got for her. i have a card for her and i mentioned already the flowers i'm sending because her grandfather doesn't anymore.

she did mention some of the things that she has been up to lately with her friends and that she was happy to have her cousin tell her she looked so pretty in a pic she sent her. she mentioned how it felt good to "be enough and perfect the way i am". i just told her that i can understand that statement and i regret not sharing that sentiment with her enough.

who knows what will happen next. we'll see.
the connection is still there and that's kinda frustrating but out of my hands.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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oh yeah, i also spilled a drink on myself. before i would've flipped out but i just smiled and declined her offer to help after thanking her. she did, however, get to see me with my shirt off wink.

none of this prolly means anything but i'm just enjoying it as it comes.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Well that all sounds pretty good to me and id say your last sentence sounds near enough spot on, just enjoy it.

Glad you're doing alright.


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
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D paperwork in progress
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Just when I come to grips my D chimes in. She just asked where my wedding ring is. I told her we're not married anymore. She started to cry and said "I told u not to give up. I want this to end w/y'all getting married and we'll all be together forever!". S hi! What can I say to that

This is after Sun where the XW got bent out of shape that a married lady at church was gonna show me how to do some things w/D' s hair. Stuff like that's very upsetting & she guesses she doesn't get a say. Really threw me off. Said I was sorry she was in such a bad mood and asked if something else was bothering her that she needed to talk about. She angrily said yeah but I'm not gonna discuss it w/you. Said take care then and walked off.Found out tonight when she called that she thought I was criticizing her job w/D' s hair. WTF?

She apologized for the "misunderstanding" & said we'll have a lot of these in the years to come & "we" can work through it. I just kept my mouth shut and listened. Said ok take care.

Funny thing is she must've bitched to her brother cause he told her of the exchange the lady & I had on FB when I posted a pic of botched braids. Tired of her years worth of wrong assumptions. Just goes to show that while I've really worked to change-her, not so much.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Folks, I'm just so tired. Tired of her misdirected anger, being disrespected, being lied to, having her lie to the kids. Just tired. And through it all, I just love her and treat her like I wish she would treat me. Tired of her selfishness and putting herself over the kids.

So to that end I've decided to rearrange the daycare schedule so she can pick up D from there as opposed from me. It's getting harder to hide my lack of respect for her right now. I would love to have a 3rd party to pick the kids up from on Sundays but I don't want to be too obvious/confrontational about this. That's something I used to struggle with.

I've been told by S that there have been a couple of playmates with a man from her new church and his 3 kids. Oh yeah, & he's going through a divorce.

Does any of this seem reasonable?

& I just sent off a b'day to X MIL with a couple of pics of the kids

Last edited by bravo61; 03/04/15 07:31 AM.

M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Bravo- I hate the hand offs right now too. I still get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach and they are generally sources of stress. Yes - I try to minimize them (have STBX drop girls at school and I pick them up), but when I have to do it, I do put on my best face and slog through it. After all, right now it's the one time the kids see their two parents together.


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Random tidbit of the day. A neighbor from backhome that knows about my situation reached out to me. Turns out she was having an affair & was contemplating becoming a WAW. I don't know if it was because I wasn't invested in the outcome but she really opened up to me. She had a LOT of guilt for her selfishness. I just let her know what I and my kids were going through and didn't judge her (boy that was tough). At times I also called her on the BS script they use at times.

One of the things that really seemed to strike home for her was could she ever truly trust her OM in a relationship since he knowingly got involved with a married woman. Also when the chips were down (cancer, injury , whatever) would her husband be there for her regardless. I never asked for the answer to those questions, she had to come to her own conclusions.

Well she's coming out of the withdrawals from OM & they are on the way to piecing. Just interesting anecdote.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Originally Posted By: bravo61
One of the things that really seemed to strike home for her was could she ever truly trust her OM in a relationship since he knowingly got involved with a married woman.
I find this very interesting because I think the same thing. I wonder why any man would want to be with a woman who encourages him to cheat on his W and walk out on his family. Really? Is that who you want to build a life with?

As far as handoffs go, H and I get along just fine so I don't personally have that issue, but I agree with raliced. Gut it up and be pleasant for the sake of the kids. I suspect it will get easier with time.



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Hey folks been a couple of weeks. Just a short update.

Been keeping my space from X, not texting or talking really. I have noticed 3 straight weeks daycare has sent an email bout late payments. S after school care hasn't been paid in a while. Not my problem! I haven't mentioned it to her. She brought the kids over early a couple of times so she could get to work (funny how she doesn't need me, until she does). It's fine if I don't have something else going on & I NEVER rub it in her face. She brought them over Sun & I met them at the door & didn't invite her in. Held my D while X piped up about wanting to get together to discuss schedule (pick up for upcoming GAL trip ). I asked her what she was confused about (we already came to agreement previously) & restated the plan. She said ok & reached out & rubbed my arm and said enjoy my days. I wasn't rude just pleasant but dismissive.

Today dropped off D & she immediately asked me in to "get the mail". She also wanted me to see D' s New bed (they r moving into a townhouse later this month). She told me bout a job I interview she has tomorrow. Just told her I was sure she'd do great. Then she asked if I was mad at her cause I've been different lately. I asked if I had been rude or mean to which she said no. I thanked her for asking instead of just making assumptions. I told her I wasn't mad just have a lot of things going on. Told her she could keep the kids on Sat nite (as opposed to me picking them up to stay w/me for early departure next morning). She said thanks cause she will miss them. Makes it harder on me but the right thing to do. All interactions have definitely bee like a neighbor Kept a small smile. Haven't indicated a want for physical contact. Is this the push/pull? Whatever it is it changes nothing for me.

GAL update: taking the kids out of the country for their 1st time. They are stoked! We'll even be riding a ferry to get there.

A babysitter that I like that X uses has told me she still has hopes for us. Apparently the kids trust their feelings more w/her than the X. She said that she is amazed at the kind of father I am. I just told her thank you for being a safe haven for the kids.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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hello all.

hit the wall this pm. woke up from my nap feeling horribly depressed. all these images of great times past as a family running through my head. i broke down in tears, sobbing, gut wrenching, soul destroying tears. this all happened so fast and i never even had a chance. sometimes i feel as if i'm dead already but the dirt hasn't been thrown on me.

XW came to pick up the kids yesterday. she said i looked good and wanted to give me a hug. i allowed her a half hug only. turns out, she caved and looked at the pics of the kids on FB. the kids were excited to see her and told her all about our adventures. i can hardly believe that i took two kids out of the country by myself!. before, my idea of watching the kids was parking them in front of the TV to watch Disney channel. and then grouse to my W at times that i had to watch them. i was a douche.

please keep me in your prayers, i'm REALLY struggling right now. the kids tell me everyday that i have them to "please Daddy, don't give up!" what's cool is that they also crawl up in my lap at nite while i'm reading the Bible and ask me to read it to them.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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So it's true what they say about the ups and downs hitting you at any moments. I'm very sorry bravo61, really. Im glad you keep coming to update us.

You know the cure for the D blues: GAL, daily GAL. Can you tell us more about your GAL?

Also, I cut off 95% of contacts with WW and it did wonders. We don't even meet for drop off because it happens at school and daycare on Fridays. Any way you can reduce such logistical interactions with her?


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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hey Mozza, thanks for the reply.

i currently work overnite shift 4 on 3 off so i'm very limited in the GAL aspect during the "work week". i make a point of getting out and running/working out. when i have the kids the other 3 days, we are constantly moving. we go to parks, play baseball, soccer, hikes, road trips, i'm teaching my daughter to read (man that's tough!), movies, children's museums, pro basketball games, semi pro hockey games, rollerderby, trip out of the country, ect.

i've tried to arrange the schedule so that on wednesdays (hand off day) i take her to daycare for her to be picked up. some weeks i can't do that as i don't know the XW schedule (she pre-sets the daycare days and i rearrange the days on my part of the week if i have something i have to do). on sundays (my 1st day for pick up) i'm kinda stuck.

i have been SO MUCH better about presenting the moving on attitude in front of her and not being dependent on her mood. just sometimes in my alone moments it really hits me hard.

i know i have had a couple of different occasions in the past when we hung out just us and had a good time. i haven't asked for that because i was tired of being mistreated and misrepresented by her. not really sure of where to go for now besides keep being the best person i can be.

it does seem like most of the advice i've seen around here is more revolved around infidelity and that's understandable. i can't really think of a lot of other sitchs off the top of my head (prolly cause i'm sleep deprived) where the spouse was a WAS without an A.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Sandi2 differentiates the walkaway wife (WAW) who leaves without an A from the WW who has an A. Most of her advice is for the WW and revolves around the fog of the A. You're right thqt there aren't many sitches of true WAW. I'll come back when I see one.

Sounds like you're doing your best on the GAL. And a big congratulations for being a much better dad. What a gain from this difficult situation; I hope you realize how important that is.

I hope you'll manage to detach because that's the next step regardless of where you're going.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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Pray for me. Im at the end of my rope. I owe taxes, my jobs in jeopardy, I'm being sued from a "wreck" going 5 mph, & of course the destruction of all my hopes & dreams😢


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Hey Bravo! Sorry to hear all of this.

About the taxes - As long as you owe less than 10,000 - the IRS has to accept a payment plan- so you should be able to work with that one.

Sorry to hear about the job - hopefully it is something that you can turnaround.

Ditto with the wreck.

Chin Up! You'll get through all of this - focus on your job as much as you are able.


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I'm so sorry to hear. It sounds awful. How is this all happening at once?

Quick, open a new thread before this one closes so that people can come and give you support. You know we're on your side.


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Positive thoughts heading your way. Take care. Rd

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