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Thank you all for your responses ... I am truly blessed that you have spent time and have helped me up to this point

uR: I completely get letting her go, I understand she will not sort through her issues with me there. I failed in recognizing I am her safety net, the fact she knows she can just call me for the quick fix does not force her to look deeply inward and do the hard work she needs to do. The hurt little boy wants her to be better, wants her to get through this provided that ends her up with me .... yeah I just 2x4'd that little boy, this will go where it will, that much I know is out of my control. I realized I don't have her to call in this sitch, but she has me ... I need to correct this and see it coming before she [censored] me in and we jump back on this MLC merry go round that seems to be stuck as you all can clearly see it from afar, not allowing her nor I to advance in our separate journeys, I am to close to the fire.... I get it.... I think ... anyone seen where my eyebrows went?? ... lol

Mach: Yeah, becoming the man I want to be, trusting it .. you are right. I do not fully buy into it yet ... mostly because I do not love myself enough just yet .. I am getting there .. but still have work to do .. I still struggle internally with things I am trying to change about myself but notice I have weak days and fall back into that old Cali ... then I plug along ... 2 steps forward one back, I still have my eyes on the prize. I do think .. .the new stenght I felt I had may have been misleading .. I get myself together and feel strong, and think I can handle a conversation with her, it goes good then she pulls out a curve and I just watch it sail by into the catchers mitt and think ... Wait ... WTF was that??!!... I did not read about that in the DB book!!! ... and off I go scrambling to figure it all out again when I should just know something offspeed is coming, let it go by and just wait for my pitch.

TS^D: I have been doing really well with the TM stuff. Well .. in a way .. some I just do not respond to at all, not to punish .. but just the fact there is nothing to respond to ... maybe a chance to just validate instead, not sure. I think the other night ... I knew deep down she was struggling and honestly thought it was a chance to STFU, listen and validate .... but hindsight I should have replied via TM that I was exhausted and going to go to sleep and we could talk later, would have been much more effective I think ... I fell into the "Oh I could be there for her and show her what a supportive husband I have turned into" .... but all I seem to do is be a crutch and that is not helping her work on things she needs to face.

Last edited by CaliGuy; 12/05/14 08:57 PM.

M: 48
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M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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So ... bit of an update.

So I worked 1/2 day and went to S's school ... Reconciliation Retreat. Was pretty cool ... we did a craft project together and he and I made the most kick-a$$ banner ever ... cuz we are cool like that. Then the assignment was to go through the 10 commandments and list the one we need to repent for. Role Play .. one the Priest the other the Confessor. Was pretty cool.
So after, we grabbed some groceries .. a movie .. played chess, just had a nice night .... W TM asking how it went .. I simply replied a few hours later with pics I took of S .. left it at that.
S Called her to say goodnight .. she was all happy go lucky .. kinda upset me, one night she is all depressed .. the next almost to happy ... then I envisioned a stop sign .. left the room to go shower. Yup ... not gonna go there.
I dropped off S this morning ... early as its Friday and he needs his Mass uniform, W still had it from last week and never gave it to me ... well this set her off, letting me know I have to remind her, she can not do it all, started in me on washing his hair brushing his teeth .. I stopped her, calmly told her Friday is the same thing and for the past 3 weeks she has not given me the Uni so I bring him early to make sure he is all set, I am a good father I take care of him and do the things I need to do, said have a nice day and left.
At around 9:00 I receive a TM
W:I'm sorry for getting upset. I got stressed out. Its not your fault. Its mine.
W: See That's huge for me

I replied around 12...

M: Its ok I can understand how you would feel stressed
Ok ... this is as close to the validation sheet as I could figure .. lol ... I really wanted to reply "Please return this phone to my wife, she does not apologize .. thanks" Which is true and made me laugh a bit ... hey if you can not find some humor .. I think MLC will kill you first.

12:30 W: The fact I am finally apologizing is huge and not letting it ruin my day. I'm changing. Yet at your expense. Again I'm sorry.

Then she text'd me info about S that I receive as she does via email ...

I have not responded ... but this is new. She rarely if ever apologizes, she has always been that way, youngest of 5 and the pretty one .. she typically gets her way and has been used to that. I am actually not really phased today, in a good place and treating this more as a guy at the zoo watching .. taking mental notes ... like .. hmmm .. ok that one is new, not putting much weight on it but acknowledging something that is not typical.

Other than that ... just working, having a nice day that has been more productive than normal ... I find myself not looking for MLC answers as much ... not like I ever found em .. I think those must be in a vault locked up where we would have to give away our first born or something laugh


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Hey C, I have been away for a few days so have just caught up on your sitch.

Its like reading my own life - your feelings, your thoughts - funny (not ha ha) that us LBS all seem to follow the same script too.

Its great you have finally realised that you are enabling w and in the process continually hurting yourself. You are doing so well - its a daily battle but the more you do now the easier it will be in the future.

Keep going, stay strong. Hugs to you

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Change is tough, Cali. You seem to have a good handle on navigating it. I agree with Mach - trust yourself. You're a much stronger man than you may believe at the moment. But you're building that trust. smile

Looking back offers you nothing. Believe that. You're different so the history is mostly irrelevant.

I really like this:
Quote:
Other than that ... just working, having a nice day that has been more productive than normal ... I find myself not looking for MLC answers as much


I read your earlier post about your phone conversation. When she asked you if you loved her, and you hesitated and weren't sure. I didn't get a chance to post then, but I was struck by the feeling that you almost felt guilty. Is that the case?

Can I suggest something to you? No matter what happens you are a changed man. You are not the same person you were a year ago. Nor will you be. You're better, stronger, faster and worth 6 million dollars smile

Do you believe that for there to be a relationship (of any kind) that your W will have to catch up? Do the work? Build the tools?

She certainly isn't caught up, Cali. You've sensed that she needs the space to become who she needs to be. With or without you. You do need to give her that, right?

It's the same for you. You need the space to become more fully you. And you're well on that path and accelerating. That's important. Very important. Until you can trust yourself, why would anyone else trust you more? wink

The time you get with your S? That's priceless. They grow up so fast!

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Originally Posted By: AJM

I read your earlier post about your phone conversation. When she asked you if you loved her, and you hesitated and weren't sure. I didn't get a chance to post then, but I was struck by the feeling that you almost felt guilty. Is that the case?

No .. like I had said ... I do love her, I just did not want to say it, its like she temp checked me and as others have told me she knows I love her so there is no reason for her to look internally and do some work on herself .. she still has everything she needs and still has me as a safety blanket. Its like I say "Yes I still love you" and she runs back into the tunnel

Originally Posted By: AJM

Can I suggest something to you? No matter what happens you are a changed man. You are not the same person you were a year ago. Nor will you be. You're better, stronger, faster and worth 6 million dollars smile

Do you believe that for there to be a relationship (of any kind) that your W will have to catch up? Do the work? Build the tools?

She certainly isn't caught up, Cali. You've sensed that she needs the space to become who she needs to be. With or without you. You do need to give her that, right?

I absolutely believe she will need to do the work, and yeah you are right ... I am well ahead and she has some catching up to do and from what I have seen, she is just starting to scratch the surface. I do fear by the time she does this work, our separation will have been so long that there will not be anything left between us ... out of my control, I still want my M, do ont want to accept its over ... but logically .. I know its a fate I may very well just have to accept.
Originally Posted By: AJM

It's the same for you. You need the space to become more fully you. And you're well on that path and accelerating. That's important. Very important. Until you can trust yourself, why would anyone else trust you more? wink

The time you get with your S? That's priceless. They grow up so fast!

AJ


I think its cyclic for me ... there are times I am totally comfortable with where I am and where I am going, knowing its good for me, I am growing and I would not in a R with her. Then there are the bouts with the lonliness, the longing for family, I fill these with the GAL but ... well lets be honest its fill ... I know its a gift, and I have a ways to go. I can only focus on me ... but there are times admittedly I do look back, hope she is coming along. This I need to stop ... do me .. keep reminding myself I have given my M and her to God, his will ... I have faith I will be delivered from tI am in a better place now, from where I was a year ago .. this all was for a reason. Not sure where it all lands, but I am thankful so much for the opportunity to change the way I have, without all this ... the Separation, the A, I would not have been forced to look at myself the way I have, nor do the work.


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So update

This morning was S's Reconciliation at the Church/School. I DJ'd last night so waking up at 7 is always a blast when you go to sleep around 3. I just had woken up and was starting to move about .. W TM me asking me to come over on my way to do S's hair because she "is terrible at it" ... I stared at the phone and thought .. "Really?" .... um no. I jumped in the shower, get out .. W calls ... asking if I was going to wear a tie, or just a shirt as she was not sure how dressed up she should get ... I tell her I will meet them at the School
So ... an hour prior to the event the parents are in the classroom, children in the other class room. They discuss Reconciliation, show a movie ... I was sitting there thinking about all this, how ironic. The stories that were shared in the film, W could have starred in ... her R with her mother for one. So we get through that and thne a guy gets up and shares his story. Catholic who divorced his W, she did not want the D, but he pressed for it .. still ashamed and regrets it thought he has remarried. I kept eyes forward thinking .. Ok God, you are sending some pretty strong messages but honestly not sure W is open to hearing you right now.
So we leave, go to the church was a nice experience ... finish up and W tells me I can go as she was just waiting for S friend and family to come out for pictures ... so I leave, go home .. take a nap, ran a few errands on the Harley.. and watched some football, picked up a movie I will watch later tonight.

So thinking ... seems after that talk her and I had .. she got what she needed from me and now is off in her own world again ... you all are right .. I am to much in her head .. and need to do my thing. I have been dark all day, will continue to do so. I've got this ... and gave her to God, just need to keep working as I have .. I will get there.

I realized something yesterday ... the R I have with S, amazing .. sure we spent time prior to BD/Sep ... but not like this .. I did not appreciate it like I do now, I focus on my limited time with him ... I am thankful for that, so blessed in this way it fills my heart.


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Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
I think its cyclic for me ... there are times I am totally comfortable with where I am and where I am going, knowing its good for me, I am growing and I would not in a R with her. Then there are the bouts with the lonliness, the longing for family, I fill these with the GAL but ... well lets be honest its fill ... I know its a gift, and I have a ways to go. I can only focus on me ... but there are times admittedly I do look back, hope she is coming along.


100% normal, Cali. We all go through this. Nothing wrong with it at all.

---------

Some of that church stuff (about R and doing the "right" thing and such) could definitely put a lot of pressure on your wife. I'd be careful with that. I know you are not forcing her to go, but imagine these messages from her point of view, and the ways you could mitigate them.

Quote:
Its like I say "Yes I still love you" and she runs back into the tunnel


Be true to yourself, Cali. I agree it's not helpful to continue to tell our wife's we love them. But if they ask, we should answer honestly. Your wife is confused and unsure of which way to go. Be her rock. You are strong enough to do this.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Thank FY ... yeah I can see how there might be some pressure, I am pretty sensitive about that.... She knows I am going through the process, and going to church on a consistent basis, I do not invite her any longer ... I just ask my S if he would like to go and typically he does.

I think back to that "Do you love me" statement .. I failed in how to answer that one. I think thats why this MLC thing is so frustrating .. seems no right/wrong way .. no cut and dried system. Nothing makes sense .. its not black and white and I just do not handle shades of grey well ... live and learn I suppose.


So journal-ling-a-ding ...
So yesterday I TM W that I am on my way to mass, will pick up S at 10:30. I also remind her I need his Mass uniform for Monday. I go to mass, I was not in a great place ... the lonliness .. the holidays .. the sitch ... all this just has been adding alot of weight to me. So I just try to get myself right with God, and keep on plugging away. I go and pick up S ... I notice that she moved the couch and put up the tree ... yeah .. the tree OM bought her last year. I know I know .. but I am human .. this one still stings. So in my head it just solidified the fact I will not be at her place for any type of gift opening for S ... she has chosen this, this is what she wants .. and yeah .. I am angry about it. S and I go run some errands, I boutgh him his first wallet ... lil dude was so proud ... was a nice thing to see. Then W TM me reminding me again about next weekend how we are switching days so S can go to a B day party .... however real reason she has not mentioned is she has her company Christmas party to attend Sat night. Again .. I am angry ... assuming she is going with OM ... I know I must let this go I am just tired of the lies ... especially around the Holidays to be reminded of all the deceit and betrayal that went down last year as I was completely in the dark. Maybe this anger can be of good use and I can propel myself to fully detach .... its my only way out of this mess.

So I ignored the text .. went about my day with S. I had a 2:00 tour with the church... part of my RCIA program and I thought it would be good for S to be there with me. We get there, only about 6-7 of us out of the entire group ... go inside as one of the members is going through the mass, some of the things about the church. Then Father George, the churches pastor happens by, knows who we are (as the RCIA group) and welcomes us .. tells us how thrilled he is we are there. Then he pulls out his wallet and asks if (my full name) is there. I answer in fact that I was and he said he pulled my name out of the basket and that he prays for me every day. I was floored, he has no idea about me nor my sitch ... and he also had no idea how much it meant to me nor how much I really needed that. I have no doubt God is helping me through this ... all the days angst and troubles melted away at that point for me as I realized I have given it to God, and this was his way of letting me know he has it.

So this morning I dropped off S .. very quick and short, I hugged him told him to have a nice day, told W bye and turned and left .. as she closed the door I heard "Have a nice day" in one of those ... not sure what is wrong tomes ... I plan on NC/Dark for some time until I can trust myself not to get sucked in again.


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Quote:
seems no right/wrong way .. no cut and dried system. Nothing makes sense .. its not black and white and I just do not handle shades of grey well ... live and learn I suppose.


No, there isn't, it's a opsit re-assessment all the time...lol.

Now about that black/white thinking...

Why do you think you don't handle the "greys" well?

smile


In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus

Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm

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Originally Posted By: CaliGuy

I think back to that "Do you love me" statement .. I failed in how to answer that one. I think thats why this MLC thing is so frustrating .. seems no right/wrong way .. no cut and dried system. Nothing makes sense .. its not black and white and I just do not handle shades of grey well ... live and learn I suppose.


What is Past, is Prologue.........Shakespeare

MLC makes perfect sense, you just happen to be on a different side of it.

Like I said earlier to you...it really depends on YOUR focus on this path in life....

Where does your trust lie, and with whom does it lie...

What is happening TO you, FOR you, BY you, with you, without you....

Who holds that key ???

Why would this be different, how would it be different, would you want it to be different...????

What is your desired outcome ???

Only if it is easy ??

Better or worse, which would you choose ??

Anyone can do the "better" , but who decides what is better and what is worse ???

To what degree, is your level of worse ?

To what degree were you willing to ACCEPT better ???

What does it mean in the end Cali...

What are you willing to GIVE, for a chance at the "better" ???




Originally Posted By: CaliGuy

So yesterday I TM W that I am on my way to mass, will pick up S at 10:30. I also remind her I need his Mass uniform for Monday. I go to mass, I was not in a great place ... the lonliness .. the holidays .. the sitch ... all this just has been adding alot of weight to me. So I just try to get myself right with God, and keep on plugging away. I go and pick up S ... I notice that she moved the couch and put up the tree ... yeah .. the tree OM bought her last year. I know I know .. but I am human .. this one still stings. So in my head it just solidified the fact I will not be at her place for any type of gift opening for S ... she has chosen this, this is what she wants .. and yeah .. I am angry about it. S and I go run some errands, I boutgh him his first wallet ... lil dude was so proud ... was a nice thing to see. Then W TM me reminding me again about next weekend how we are switching days so S can go to a B day party .... however real reason she has not mentioned is she has her company Christmas party to attend Sat night. Again .. I am angry ... assuming she is going with OM ... I know I must let this go I am just tired of the lies ... especially around the Holidays to be reminded of all the deceit and betrayal that went down last year as I was completely in the dark. Maybe this anger can be of good use and I can propel myself to fully detach .... its my only way out of this mess.

So I ignored the text .. went about my day with S. I had a 2:00 tour with the church... part of my RCIA program and I thought it would be good for S to be there with me. We get there, only about 6-7 of us out of the entire group ... go inside as one of the members is going through the mass, some of the things about the church. Then Father George, the churches pastor happens by, knows who we are (as the RCIA group) and welcomes us .. tells us how thrilled he is we are there. Then he pulls out his wallet and asks if (my full name) is there. I answer in fact that I was and he said he pulled my name out of the basket and that he prays for me every day. I was floored, he has no idea about me nor my sitch ... and he also had no idea how much it meant to me nor how much I really needed that. I have no doubt God is helping me through this ... all the days angst and troubles melted away at that point for me as I realized I have given it to God, and this was his way of letting me know he has it.

So this morning I dropped off S .. very quick and short, I hugged him told him to have a nice day, told W bye and turned and left .. as she closed the door I heard "Have a nice day" in one of those ... not sure what is wrong tomes ... I plan on NC/Dark for some time until I can trust myself not to get sucked in again.


ALL of that ^^^ , up there....

What is the common theme behind it ???




It is a reaction, of how this is affecting YOU....

And how your emotions are still tied to what you draw from others around you....

You seem to draw YOUR power from the people that surround you.

What if all of that changed, and you could project YOUR power onto others ???

How would that change your interactions ??

And yes, I do see you getting angry, and I think that is a good thing...

Just remember to use your anger as a shield , NOT as a sword...


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