New England Newcomer

[Mozza]

No advice, just my experience. I don't speak to my kids at all when they are with their mom and vice versa (we alternate weeks). They don't seem to mind at all. I know a friend who separated when his kids were 4 and 2 (now 10 and 8) and they almost never call and when they do, the kids don't like it because they miss the other parent even more.

[mahhhty]

Thanks Mozza. I'm going to see how it goes in the next couple days or maybe a week. Today was tough on the kids we are at the end of a one week stint. They really miss her. As do I. But instead of focusing on that we went swimming and out to eat.

[mahhhty]

Thanks to all the Vets, there has been a ton of older threads & success stories coming back into circulation. I am very thankful for all of this.

Consider yourself warned... I'm somewhat journaling today...

I have been spending a lot of time reading other's stories and reflecting on me to make sure I am working on the right areas and paying attention to the right things.

My son was born in 2012, and he came into the world with a bang. High Risk Pregnancy, Ambulance, NICU, Surgery, etc. With the two kids in the house, it was harder for me personally. I struggled with the two kids. I love babies and kids, but I'm not fully comfortable with babies and I think the two kids in the house was a huge adjustment for me, nor did I have any baby experience prior.

That mixed in with losing communication, being a homeowner, quality time and intimacy with the W and the increase of our careers, I believe I lost my identity and struggled with withdrawal and/or some depression. At times I felt like I lost my best friend (my wife) and was replaced by the kids. It wasn't like we worked on things together at that point (besides the kids). I was relying on her to tell me plans for the week. I even lost my sense of style and relied on her for advice. And when I did have a voice I am afraid it was more of a negative one.

There was an interesting moment in April 2013, almost a year after my son was born that I went on a whitewater kayaking trip down south with friends (this was something I used to do a lot, but haven't do to children). I wore a backwards hat and facetime'ed from TN. The first thing she said was "wow you look good," and the last thing she said was "you seem really happy."

If everything she is telling me is true (which it may or may not be, speaking basically to her telling me there is no OM), that was probably a turning point where she benchmarked me on how I looked and felt and perhaps is a point of comparison to the person she was seeing on a regular basis.

I'm going to do some hard thinking about my 180s and post them all next time.

Right now she has been on business travel for a week. So she hasn't been pushy about solving the child support issue or going to mediation appointments.

[lost18]

Hi Mahhhty, not much advice for you, just wanted to stop by and show my support.

Regarding your vacation, unfortunately in everyday life we have too much stress, kids, jobs, finances, household chores. On vacation we are able to relax and I guess are much more attractive to spouses, I think it's natural. My H has told me in the past that he liked me more when we were on vacation. If only we could live on vacation!

[Georgia Bulldogs]

When they say "ILYBNILWY", it's typically, but not always, because they have a point of comparison. It's wayward wife speak for I love someone else now.

Georgia Bulldogs... I just quoted the top, but the entire post is definitely relevant. She has never been a person to lie or withhold things. However, as time went on, she withheld the affair acquisition and withheld the idea of her happiness from me. Our communication as a couple was awful (but great as parents), and our love languages were not being spoken. I am cognizant that there could be another man and I'll find out about it after the divorce. But after asking 4 times I can't ask again. I've been dealing with it by telling myself that it is something I can't control.

I don't think you should ask her again either. Waywards lie.

I'm also not suggesting you investigate and snoop on your wife indefinitely.

I'm merely proposing that you rule out the fact that it's likely she's having an affair with another person and THAT is what is ripping your family apart versus strictly just a MLC sort of thing.

Your wife seems in a hurry to rap this divorce up and that's probably because she wants to be able to tell people (including OM's friends and family) that they started dating around the time or after she ended up divorcing. Years done the road that history will again be revised to say they met and started dating as she (they) were already exiting or divorced from awful spouses.

You mention waiting until after the divorce to find this out but were you aware the divorce process itself gives you the power and right to discovery??? IF you make an initial outside verification that there IS actually an OM (maybe hire a PI) then you can perhaps request a deposition or send some simple interrogatories asking for written or testimonial verification about the truth of your divorce. Phone records could be requested and depending no the state you could even depose the OM. You also may have the right to specifically demand that your children not be exposed to OM in the custody order.

This isn't a matter of punishing your wife. This is matter of documenting your life and protecting your children. If you end up divorced and THEN try to discover or verify she's dating someone else she'll just say she started seeing him that week or the last month and you are a crazy possessive jealous EX husband with no right to invade or questions her choices and decisions. The OM could be some perverted child molester with a criminal history but you'll have missed your opportunity to document or discover any of that and protect your children.

I KNOW you trust your wife and think looking her dead in the eye will give you some sense of veracity and that her prior trustworthiness and upstanding behavior means you should give her a lot of latitude. I also know that you think NOT trusting her will upset her but she is divorcing you and has PROBABLY been cheating on you for quite awhile and she is PROBABLY manipulating your lack of trust to make you feel bad hoping you'll stop investigating her while completely abusing you to your face and behind your back. Years from now...absent documenting the truth before the divorce, she'll rewrite your marital history to everyone around you including your children. Sure you may share YOUR side but your children won't know what to believe because there won't be any proof requiring anyone to tell the truth. The divorce will become mostly YOUR fault.

Strategically for your divorce and for your own health and sanity, please independent verify the truth about your (and your daughter's) life. It may really suck to find out I was right, but it'll be worse if you find out a year from now and find yourself already the bad guy and if you complain or talk about it THEN you'll just be the mean old vindictive ex-husband and you'll play right into the trap of it all being YOUR fault.

Finally.

Knowing the truth allows you to address the problems in your marriage honestly. Perhaps your marriage and family CAN be recovered someday, even after the divorce IF you know the truth. If you and your wife divorce and the secret affair remains a secret she may never consider recovery with you because she'll think you could never forgive her if you knew the truth. Plus, she'll want to go to her grave holding the secret and realize reconciliation with you built upon a lie would be pointless. Thus, discovering the truth also increases your odds of reconciliation.

If I'm wrong. So be it. It's not a crime to hire a private investigator nor is it unhealthy to attempt to verify the truth about your life and try to narrow down the problems in your relationship with your wife. People with nothing to hide don't sweat being investigated or questioned.

[mahhhty]

Georgia B -
I've been thinking about this since you wrote it. I can see it's value and how it would be potentially liberating. I can also see the breakdown in trust (if in fact she is not lying, which is possible). I do fully agree that knowing the truth allows me to efficiently address the problems in the marriage honestly. I appreciate the advice. I'm not sure which way I am going to go yet.

[mahhhty]

Update... journaling... again...

I haven't seen her since Thanksgiving morning at her parent's house, when I was picking up the kids. Where our parting gesture was a hug. The hug was received. I went in one armed and she came in for the real thing.

Days before I was at a wake with my parents and sister's family. She came to pay respects and gave all of my family a hug, but didn't give me a hug. I was hurt by this, and decided I would "Be the change I wish to see in the world" - (Gandhi).

On the 5th, I took off my wedding band after reading some posts. Her's is already off. I took mine off bc it shows that I am not holding on (basically arguing with her), and I don't think keeping it on helps me get where I want to go.

Yesterday she returned from a 6 day business trip. Which was nice. It was like a mini-vacation. Where I didn't have to deal her constant pressure of D tasks. As of last night, we are emailing back and forth again to work through items. I'm trying to keep the emails light and upbeat, I'm thinking/re-reading prior to sending, trying not to be impulsive, and I'm not arguing with her (as I can't control your opinion).

I've been thinking a lot about identifying all of my 180s. Here is what I'm on.

180s:
- I am re-identifying with myself... bc I lost my identity as an individual
- I am more present... bc I was withdrawn
- I am trying to be happier... bc I wasn't
- I am trying to learn about relationships... bc I wasn't knowledgable
- I am trying to be more aware & appreciative... bc I was passive & assuming
- I am trying to be more laid back, compassionate & understanding... bc I was judgmental, high strung & stressed
- I am trying to be more attractive... bc I was loosing fashion sense from working at home
- I am working out consistently... bc I have always struggled with long term dedication
- I am traveling less and working on my startup more... bc I was traveling a lot and bc I want the independence of my own business (one of my dreams)

In short, my goal is to be happier, healthier, and to be a better Father, Son, Friend and hopefully Husband.

I have been focusing on:
- GAL
- Sandi2's Rules
- The Serenity Prayer
- "Be the change you wish to see in the world" - Gandhi
- "The finest steel has to go through the hottest fire." - Nixon
- With time comes clarity
- "Act as if by showing that you will be happy regardless of S's choice. You show strength by finding some new friends/activities aside from spouse. Actions speak louder than words." - Someone in the forum, much smarter than me

I am struggling but getting better with GAL & going dark. However, I am really concerned if we spend more time together that I will backslide.

It's a cold, rainy day in NE. I miss her.

Good day for Otis...
"...They are lonely, Lonely and feeling blue..."

[lost18]

On the 5th, I took off my wedding band after reading some posts. Her's is already off. I took mine off bc it shows that I am not holding on (basically arguing with her), and I don't think keeping it on helps me get where I want to go.

I was thinking about doing that after Christmas. Of course I like your reasoning better than mine. H took his off a couple of years ago because he broke his finger. My big concern is my kids, they still don't know this is going on. Although, I'm sure they know something isn't right.

Good post, you sound like you are doing really well with DBing!

[mahhhty]

My big concern is my kids, they still don't know this is going on.

That is tough. I don't think either decision is right or wrong. But it may spook the kids prior to Christmas. My kids are much younger, and don't understand that piece.

One thing my wife did was take hers off and leave it off for extended periods. She'd take it off washing the dishes and then wouldn't put it back on for 4-5 hours. Or take it off while sleeping and put it back on at noon. Perhaps something like that would be mysterious enough to make him start thinking.

[mahhhty]

I'm fairly certain I backslide today. We are still unable to come to common ground in regards to child support.

She made a counter offer a week ago. I countered today, and she disagrees. I'm afraid its going to go to lawyers and then to court. She is living in a world where she believes I am responsible to pay for her lively hood. We have both made counter offers, which I guess is a start. It was interesting at one point, she started to break down and tell me that she only has $300 in savings. I responded saying I don't have money to close on the house refinance, also I have borrowed money from my sister and parents. She cut me off and basically said "Don't tell me that, I don't care." Or at least that's how I took it.

I need to get better at interacting with her one on one. From what I can see, she is classic WAS, and is now hitting rock bottom. She saw a doctor because of hives last week, which he said was due to stress. She looks for me to solve her problems but in the way that she wants.

In backsliding, I think I:
- talked about the future, and the need for us to communicate for our children
- I analyzed her thinking, and tried to identify why it was wrong
- I wrote the following in an email. I am sure this is bad and shouldn't have been said. "Divorce is not the solution to anyone's problems. We as individuals and as a coparents will always have issues until we address them. Divorce takes a couple with communication issues and burdens them with the most emotional decisions of their life, which makes it exponentially harder to communicate. Especially, if you’ve been communicating poorly in the past. You are latched to me, whether you like it or not for the rest of your life. I can tell in your emails and phone calls that you despise me, and that hurts. You have notions of me as a person, father, a husband. Resentment is in me to. But we have got to start communicating for our kids."

I need to get better one on one. I have to stop trying to convince her that I am right. I have to come to terms that I am not always right. And I have to accept that at the end of the day its not about being right or wrong, but our perceptions of what is.