Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 7 of 12 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 11 12
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Except for three or four things you mentioned, that was a description of me a few years ago.

Quote:
I have learned from your posts on other threads and mine how to act now when she's crying, shaking, and showing pain.


Just remember that when she does get serious about ending th contact with OM, and you two are piecing the M back together, she will need you to there for her in ways you really can't show when she's in an A. There will be times, you can afford to show a little more tenderness (in piecing) than you can during her waywardness. In piecing, you will be able to give her the comfort and assurances she seeks. You will be able to share activities again, and enjoy those good conversations. You will be able to show affection and do special things for her. She will need a lot of encouragement.

I bring this out, b/c I don't want you to misunderstand like one poster did, and think that you will have to be this distant from now on. He thought when I said no contact, I meant forever. As the relationship changes, you have to adjust. If she ends the A, then you certainly want to show her support and encouragement. You will want to cooperate with seeking help with getting the M back on track.

A woman always needs her H's strength (even when she thinks she doesn't want him), but there are different ways of showing her. When she's in an A, you have to be strong, firm, controlled, confident, stable and calm. We women need our men to be the rock that holds us up. We need them to be stronger than we are, whether there is an A or not.

You said you know now she won't stop contacting OM. Why do you say that? I thought maybe I missed something.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
H
HPoirot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
Hello Sandi. Thank you for your incredible advice. I have clearly had trouble not showing undue tenderness and support when W shows pain, softness, and caring while in her A. That last crying spell of her's was the best I've done at maintaining good emotional distance thanks to advice from you and everyone else. That did seem to result in her reaching out to me with rum the next day (before I irritated her by mentioning OM weakly).

I do still struggle a little at other times being friendly yet distant instead of rude. Tonight was better. Just focused on spending time with S11 watching his shows. Warmly acknowledged W when she came around but did not invite her to join. Politely drank the rum she got for me last night (she didn't make me a drink this time) and thanked her for it with a text. (should have told her face to face). Let her stay upstairs in peace all night without trying to engage her or asking her how she was. She did miss out on a fun family night. She asked S11 to come hang with her upstairs but he did not. I did ask her "how was your day?" when she came home. I don't think I'll do that anymore because she mentioned she felt suspicion from me about how she spends her time out the house (which was true over the weekend when I let myself get sucked into dueling mystery GALs).

And it was fantastic of you to mention the transition to piecing. I know that is a long road from here... but I am hopeful about reaching that point. That you would share your thoughts on it with me gives me energy. Thank you for that.

As for her condition... yes she is in physical pain and under great emotional pressure. Watching her shake and cry the other night was hard. Even so, I recognize that her feelings are very real and do not blame them on her conditions. Still, I very much appreciate your sharing your experiences under somewhat similar pressures and I hope I can translate your stories into the best result for her and my family.

As for contacting the OM... her latest email saying she would cease the contact was her 3rd time saying she would do so (2nd time in writing). Also, in her very next sentence she said that doesn't change anything and that I still can't trust her. This from someone who says she doesn't want to be thought of as a lier and a "bad girl." I was watching her type the email on her phone. She was pissed when she wrote it. Then she almost immediately wrote her "you are one of the best people I've ever known" email. She often seems to go to far then backtrack. That, and she has lied plenty now and so smoothly (and admitted it) that I don't think it wise to believe anything. Plus, she posted on her twitter when all this started that women lie to not hurt peoples feelings. So she has rationalized her lying and clearly has no problem going back on what she says to me now b/c she "cares about me" and wants to protect me from her truth (so she can feel better). Mind reading.

She knows (because I told her) putting her phone back on our account so I can see her call history (as we've always had) is the least of what is needed start rebuilding trust. I also mentioned a NC letter and access to her email on the first day of all of this. She knows just saying it isn't enough as, after I confronted her recently with the OM boundary, she admitted to lying about contact (while saying it was innocent contact) and then moved herself from our bed to the couch where she still sleeps.

So yes, I would love to believe her. But she has a bad back, said she would end contact, but has not tried to get back in our bed from the couch. So back to being the best me and being only polite and friendly to her. Today I was good at that. Tomorrow I'll do the same.

Thank you again Sandi. I really appreciate your advice to me and everyone else here. You are a lifesaver.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
HP,

This jumped out at me:

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
So she has rationalized her lying and clearly has no problem going back on what she says to me now b/c she "cares about me" and wants to protect me from her truth (so she can feel better).


The next time she says she wants to "protect" you from her truth, look squarely into her eyes and calmly say...

"W, it is not for you to decide. I can handle the truth and I have a fairly good idea of it. When you trot that out, it insults my intelligence. Don't do that again. I am strong. Let me tell you what I know is happening. You are still in contact with OM and plan out your rendezvouses with him so you two can have sex. As you know, it is incredibly disrespectful to me and to the marriage because you are SEEKING your emotional needs from other man, not your husband. Then you come here acting "normal" and expect me to play "happy" family along with that charade. What makes you think that I am okay with all of this??! This is not cool at all."

I would hope that you will USE this humongous truth dart the very next time W brings up "protecting you" from the truth comment. Do you have the cojones to say this to W's face? Your choice.

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
H
HPoirot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
OK then... challenge accepted. I will be ready this time. Thank you Wonka.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
It is not a challenge.

It is more of "here's how I see things" and not tolerating the half-truths W is doling out to appease her own guilt. Make sense, HP?

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
H
HPoirot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
Yes that does make sense Wonka. Thank you for getting me straight on the intension of your script.

...

Had a good day and night. No R talks... no OM back and forth... a couple pleasant phone calls... and tonight I left her alone and let her initiate a couple pleasantries around our boy.

She's downstairs on the couch now. Was up here in the bedroom watching tv. When I came up to ice cold shower... I said "Hey" and she grumpily replied and then went down while I was in the shower. She turned her light off without saying Good Night. Should I say goodnight? When I go to bed first I do nowadays. But when she's leaving or going to bed or waking up without saying anything? Right... just decide to not take it personally and then don't. I don't.

Even so, I felt sad about that. It's like we're adversaries. Maybe I'm creating that dynamic somehow... always smiling and showering every morning and evening and looking positive around her while I'm secretively typing on this computer late each night and she's dragging herself around the house looking tired and miserable (around me).

I don't want that but there it is.

I'm feeling OK right now. Not as hopeless as last night. Not as good as the night before last. Still don't know how I get to the long goal of R... but I'm sure I can make the short goal of a happy day tomorrow happen.

Onward.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
When my wife was having her affair, I absolutely saw her as my adversary. The AFFAIR was my adversary, and my wife -- at least in her current wayward state -- was also an enemy of our marriage and our intact family.

It was damned hard -- and horribly sad -- to come to that realization, but I honestly don't see how you can effectively DB without that mindset. To my way of thinking, you cannot negotiate the peace without first pacifying your enemy.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
3 things....(and Happy Thanksgiving too!)

First, I don't believe in seeing the parent of my children as the enemy, even if they are divorcing me. I just don't but that it helps the situation, although that's not to say you shouldn't do all you can to protect your legal interests and your kids'.

Second, I have to chime in about the "NOBLE ACT" of Not telling us the truth. They claim to want to protect us but to ME it seems that keeping the vows would have done that just fine. Or those who have affairs and lie to their spouse "to protect them" really must do some compartmentalizing!

When my h would sneak off to Alaska and tell me "later", because he did "not want to hurt" me, it made NO sense since he hurt me BY GOING there AND lying about it...

but, I was supposed to be grateful? Gee, maybe we should THANK THEM for their heroism??

I did a stand up comedy set on MLCs and the part I wrote/performed about the 'Noble Liar" really got laughs. Guess it's easy to relate to b/c a LOT of folks sure seemed to get it!

OTOH, I suppose it'd be worse to do the opposite and tell us ALL their "Affair truths". I've seen some doozies around here.
Like the cheaters who throw the affair in the LBS's faces, or brag about finding "real love, finally" or how "great the sex is, NOW", which is just an evil thing to do. Or they'll tell their kids that they are "So happy NOW" and you have to wonder what the kids feel then?

(True, in a marriage with lots of fighting, or bullying, or a cold and distant marriage, it's possible the kids will see a happier parent and perhaps that will smooth things for them some....but it seems more like they prefer their original families intact).

Yes there are some WAs's who say "too much truth" to the LBS.
Bad enough to cheat and leave, why flaunt it and throw it in the LBS's face? Believe me, I've seen that too. So perhaps we can give a nod of thanks for your w's intentions this holiday.

Perhaps In your wife's own way, she's trying to not be a total jerk. Moving on...

Third, I hope you like different opinions b/c here's one.
cool

I don't agree with your refusal to go to a Workshop like Imago (or Essential Experience, aka "EE", for that matter) b/c your w is in an A.

Why?

B/C if Imago is at all like Retrovaille, (and I"ve heard that it is). then imo,

SHE CANNOT endure and get through a weekend of those talks and meeting those married couples and hearing the stories and doing the exercises and doing the introspective work and digging deep,

and Stay IN an affair AND stay married.
At least I don't see how.

I mean, that's a whole lot of denial to endure and a lot of people to ignore, and for what?? To say "I tried"? She can do that in a MC's offices for less money and a lot faster!
IF Imago is at all like Retrovaile or EE, I believe she'd never leave that workshop still active in the A, And Staying with you. I don't see how.

I'm not saying you have to go pretend all is well and you're just fine & dandy.

But those workshops are designed for marriages in crisis - and if you are trying to show her that you can change, how will you ever do that? Won't you just appear stubborn and resentful and punitive?

How are you looking new & improved if you won't discuss the marriage or what you are willing to do, to help it?

(Did I miss something? Is this some other IMAGO workshop about divorce? The only ones I am familiar with are focussed on helping relationships become closer and to improve communication).

My sexist remark is coming now, so here we go. Seems settled that the reason affairs of wives' being more likely to end in divorce is not just b/c "men can't forgive" or their egos won't let them....

I think it's also (OR more likely) b/c for most women in affairs, it's an emotional need that is not being met inside the marriage and thus, the wife is more likely to feel justified in her affair. And more likely to want to end the marriage. I once came very close to having an affair and can tell you honestly that at the time, I did feel justified. My h was in his internship and that was the 5th long hard year in a row and there was no end in sight. Another 4 years at best, (but 11 more years was more likely) and possibly a lifetime of unrelentingly long hours, missed holidays, shortened vacations, sleep deprivation (= less intimacy and more crankiness, less co-parenting, etc etc).. We were also in the military (thanks to H's schooling being funded by the Army, I also joined b/c if you can't beat'em, join 'em) and that meant that I was going to be deployed, (not h b/c he was an intern then and they'd never interrupt that part of his training)

so I was going to go to war, b/c of HIS choices...or so it seemed to me then. OM was also military and was very attentive, and available and presented an option for a different kind of life....one I so very much wanted then.

The part of me that did feel guilty was nagging at me and I went to see a chaplain (very helpful) and a shrink (not helpful). The chaplain made good suggestions about getting more passion in my life in ways that did not threaten my marriage, (like doing theater, for one). I worked myself out of the would be affair before it became physical and it took me months before I could forget OM. Even years later, every few months I'd wonder about OM. Not in a way that made me think I wanted to pursue him but more like curiosity.

There are also some embarrassingly crazy memories I have of really fantasizing about the PERFECT LIFE W/OM...and I do shake my head. Turns out my h and I are much better suited than OM and I would have been....but when the OPs seem like the answer to your loneliness or lack of intimacy or respite from feeling judged wanting...it's hard to believe that the spouse from whom we've felt such a disconnect could be our soulmate again.

I stopped things before they went too far for me.

HP, You were having an affair that you still have not told her about.... You worked yourself out of an affair and back into the marriage... but you won't give your wife the same chance...

Do you ever wonder How she'll view your present choices - when she finds out you had an affair you never disclosed?

What about the way you are portraying HER "boundary crossings", when you never imposed a boundary on yourself?

What about how she never got to set any boundaries with you, b/c she did not know of your A?

I'm not trying to shame you HP. Honestly I swear I'm not.
I just have to wonder how you are going to face her then?

I'm truly worried b/c I do think it will come out some day. And the longer it takes, maybe, the worse. (?? Not sure...just wondering out loud...)

I'm not saying "go tell her now", but I do wonder about the potential for hypocrisy cropping up.

Whatever your kids learn about her & her affair, they'll probably be sure to learn about you & yours, won't they?

Can you be firm and strong (and yes, "manly") without being too rigid? You'll have to find some balance there...

Just my .02

Keep up the good work, don't backslide or lose your head. Be your best dad self. We're all rooting for you.

Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 11/27/14 07:33 AM.

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
HP

Children are very aware of what is happening with the adults in their lives. I used to foster with my first husband and noted that a sign of settling in the foster children was release of energy. A little bit of play and boisterous noise about their world.

As you HP are becoming steadier and calmer, more detached, more fun to be with, so your lovely son is picking that up. Whilst not ideal it probably is easier to have a dad you can relate to. That is why I say, your S has given you a great gift, that of himself. He is free to be say, what he needs to you, freer to relate to you.
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/27/14 06:43 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
H
HPoirot Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
Thank you Vanilla for your kind words about children. I do feel steadier than when this began thank you. And I do feel my son can feel this from me and that feeling will support him through this. I'm making it happen.

...

Today was a very good day. We talked and laughed a lot like normal. We made good decisions... cooked together... I smoked by best turkey with gravy ever she said... I praised her for her food... I said grace (an obvious pursuit b/c I never do that)... and then I drove my family 2 hours round trip to a botanical garden W has always wanted to go to. She made the suggestion and I praised her for it and then did my most to enjoy the experience (a 180 for me). She smiled and talked happily the whole time and took lots of pictures. I did something I never did before... asked someone to take a picture of all of us. This is usually her thing. She stood next to me and put her arm around me. She said it was a great picture. I probably shouldn't have done it. Pursuit.

Then we got home late at night. She showered and made the couch for her bed. I had a drink and a piece of pumpkin pie on the other couch. I was ready to ask her... "why are you still sleeping down here?" I was thinking of asking her that the entire drive back while she was asleep next to me. I don't want her to sleep on the couch. She moved herself there after I confronted her about OM she insists is an innocent relationship. "My back hurts so bad," she says to me on the ride home. I say nothing in reply. Now, she sits on the couch by herself to eat her pie and looks tired and miserable. I want to tell her she can come to bed. I almost did.

Instead, I finished the rum drink she bought for me and the pumpkin pie she made for me today. I told her how great her pie was. She says "oh great thanks." I walk to the stairs, turn to her on the couch, and say "see you in the morning." Not looking at me, she says, "ok good night." I'm already walking up the stairs. I stop for a moment and look at her. She's still not looking at me... just miserably eating her pie. I walk to the bedroom and now I'm here telling you about it.

This is just stupid. Is this really the dream life W's chasing? Lying to her H and S11, telling H he can't trust her, and breaking her already broken back by sleeping on the couch every night?

I really wanted to make this mistake tonight... "W... come to bed."

This s*cks.

...

I noticed something... on at least 2 other sitches here, Hs got hammered with spew after replying to a questions from a W with quiet hesitation or an "Um..." I thought nothing of it. Then, tonight, when we got home after our nice family day, my W asked me... "Are you going to have a piece of pie?" She made pumpkin pies as she always does this time of year. She's not into pumpkin pie. Neither is S11. I love pumpkin pie. She made them for me and she said so today. So I hesitated in my answer and said... "Um... yes." I see now hesitation is weakness. I again implied that I want nothing to do with her b/c I had to think of my answer. So, W gets a little irritated and says... "I was just asking b/c if you were having one I was going to have one too." Then she left to go shower. By the time she came down, she saw I'd cut and eaten my own slice of pie. She asks if I want another one. I say "No thank you it was delicious." Then she cuts her own slice and goes to sleep on the couch.

Lesson learned... be decisive when answering W as they are already angry with your weakness and more hesitation weakness makes it worse. Also, watch for subtle ways you are punishing W.

Also, why get me the rum I like, make me drinks, make me pumpkin pie, get mad if I hesitate to accept your offer of pumpkin pie, then ask if I want more pumpkin pie if you're going to hold onto this OM and sleep on the couch? (I see how asking that question is a subtle way of punishing W. Caught myself.)

Anyway... I hope you had a Happy Thanksgiving.

Take care.

Oops... she's still awake. Maybe I'll go talk to her.

No... better take an ice cold shower.

Better choice.

Last edited by HPoirot; 11/28/14 04:10 AM.

Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Page 7 of 12 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 11 12

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard