Busting this Divorce - Standing Firm

[Wonka]

HP,

This is a mixed-bag of some good interactions and some real doozies. That is to be expected when you're tired and trying to think fast on your feet on the spot. Not easy at all. I can see that.

Texted W about the condo as that was the thing stressing her this morning. She called and asked questions. Told me how proud she was of me and how much I helped her.

She also told S11 we'd be moving and about his likely new school next year. He was upset but I sat an talked with him. W then texted me... "Immensely proud of you. Thanks so much."

I'm noticing how she says she's proud of me lately with my changes. I'm not sure this is positive. More like a pat on the head. Nice but means nothing.

This is a very positive thing. Why be a downer because this doesn't measure up to your expectations of "positive"?? For a woman, they like it quite a lot when their H's take charge and make things happen which you did with the condo thing. Your W is liking the new changes and she's even commented on it. Sure, she's gun-shy because she's afraid that you'll slip back to the old HPoirot and she'd feel she's been gyped by you.

When she comes home... I am on the phone upstairs having a funny conversation with a work colleague. Another 180... just be friendlier with people I work with. She has brought home the rum I like. She made me a drink and came upstairs to give it to me. I said no thank you with a smile and went back to my call. She walked away.

Whaa...what? What were you thinking??! It was just a nice gesture that you could have reciprocated with a warm "thank you." Why is this so hard for you to do this? Remember, build on small positive interactions like this.

While S11 was out the room, she asked me again if I wanted to watch our zombie show. I messed up here.

I said "we'll see."

She said "are you sure? or are you too tired." (my lame excuse last time.)

I said something non-committal.

She said, "if you don't want to watch with me, you should just say so."

It seems that you forgot Sandi's script:

[/quote-Sandi2]When your W has expectations of watching the TV with you or any other activity you two did in the past.......have you just looked at her and said, "There is nothing I want more than for our M and our lives to be healthy and normal again. However, as long as you are actively involved with another man, I cannot pretend to enjoy a shared activities just the two of us, as if all is well. It is painful for me and feels like a mockery to what we once had." This should not be said with anger or coldness. It should be said lovingly, but not pitifully.[/quote]

Contrast that ^^ comment which comes from inner strength to this other one:

I said politely "well as long as I don't know about OM, then no I don't think we should watch together." This was not my script as I forgot it.

She says irritatedly, "There's nothing to know about OM. I made myself clear in my email (where she said she would stop contact but implying now that was not what she meant). We'll just live together as best we can. I'll watch it when I want and you watch when you want."

You don't need to know squat about the OM or what he does/doesn't do. That has absolutely nothing to do with your boundary. I can see why your W reacted with irritation and brought her back to a bad place. STFU about the OM! Seriously. It just makes you look like a weak man.

I should not have brought up OM. I'm don't see how to get to MC anymore without her bringing it up again which I already shut down yesterday. Is this MC/OM thing that I fought for yesterday now salvageable?

Yep. Here's why. You MUST differentiate between bringing up the OM, which will be seen as a direct attack to him, and stating your boundary in that you will not live in an open marriage and do family activities together. See the difference, HP??

You WILL not have any couples events or MC as long as the OM is still in the picture. Again, indicate your willingness to attend those types of sessions if OM is completely cut off.

Trust me. There will be many, many wobbles and bumps when it comes to re-stating and enforcing this boundary. It takes a while for the WAS to drop kick the OM/OW. Like kicking a meth addiction. This process will be filled with fits and starts. Please try to keep this in mind.

It's like I'm waiting to become detached. I'm not sure I've really tried to detach yet. Time to find a way to actually practice detachment.

Detachment is a process, not an overnight thing. An essential indigredent to detaching is GALing. You can mix things up by GALing by yourself, with friends, or with your son. I have very, very fond memories of my late father taking me to the arcade to play Centipede or Galaxy or pool hall to play pool. What a memory of father-daughter bonding times!!

To this day, I recall this memory with deep fondness. My father, as a single man, corralled a bunch of my friends (we all were in the 5th grade) in my neighborhood and their parents to go on a day event at a local State park one winter. We just hiked in the woods with icicles and sheen of ice wrapping around rocks. At the end of the hike, we gathered up at a cabin that we rented and just sat around hot chocolate, s'mores chatting. For me, I was unable to join the group. Why? Ah well. As the group was walking on top of a frozen river, I stepped into an apparently thin section and fell right through it!!! So imagine my terror! Yup, I was frozen over and had to spend a lot of the time in the car with the heat on full blast to thaw out.

Ah..I digress.

And now again I feel like I can't see how I get to my goal from here. Complete opposite of last night.

I can get more consistent mentally. Maybe I feel like cr*p because I'm sitting here on the couch alone eating Oreos.

Hey no worries. By golly! I have stumbled several times and so have many, many other DBers. Pick yourself up and dust off. And there's nothing wrong with eating Oreos! I like the odd Oreo here and there.

Go back and re-read your thread from page 1. We've given you golden tips and guidance.

Chin up, buddy. We've got your back.

[HPoirot]

Yes Starsky thank you for the well deserved snark. I feel sick about this mistake. I will be strong in all my responses to W from now on.

[sandi2]

HP..regardless of the past mistakes we have both made..you still remained true to us. I haven't. I fell out of love with you a very long time ago. Instead of telling you the truth, instead of fighting. . I remained and became increasingly resentful of our lives...our lack of real passion, of shared interests...of a real and deep connection to building a family in a home of our own...our lack of any sustainable familial relationships and friendships..our lack of a spiritual life...

But despite this...we were able to be kind to each other. .have some very good times..give our boy a great life.

I am grateful to you for always working so hard for us. I wish things could be different. I am terribly sad about all of this.

In this very moment....I want you to know that you are one of the best people I have ever known. With all my heart I only want the best for you. I wish things were different.

This is a letter I could have written. All I would need to have done was replace your name with my H's. It is eerie how similar WAW's can describe their feelings.

[HPoirot]

Thank you Wonka for your comments on yesterday's interactions with my W. I see how you are of course right about everything you said.

I think the biggest issue I had is that I was very very hard on myself about the TV show interaction fail. Everything else about the day had been great and my PMA was very high. In fact, I was probably over confident.

I figured she might ask again and told myself to review Sandi's script earlier. I allowed my other stresses to get in the way of that and was totally unprepared when it happened. Then I beat myself up all night and into today. I felt very very low and hopeless again. I notice my posts last night was me wallowing in it and hoping someone here would tell me I was still on track. I was again looking for reassurance to keep going. I know that's OK... I learned just the other day that a hard day is not the end of the road. And, even though I feel like I undid days of boundary work with just one weak moment... I've survived days that ended worse than yesterday and still got back to reconnecting with W. I just go and do this again.

And the drink she made for me. You're right I did not think that through. After the terrible/nice day of the OM/MC emails... she went and bought me a bottle of my favorite rum (and herself her vodka), made me a drink and brought it to me, and asked me to watch zombies like old times. Thinking about it now it is surprising she would do that (unless it was a temperature check). We did leave the night before on a hopeful note and she did comment on the positive things I did for our family yesterday. So I see I could have continued to build on that by accepting the drink. Using Sandi's script to say no to TV then would have been stronger... building on the strong things I had already done that day. It's a lot to remember to do... but I can just be the person who just does that more and more.

I still would like to know, in case I missed this in your response Wonka, how MC could ever get back in our picture?

I know she won't just stop OM contact now even though she said she would. And she said she's going back to her IC for her issues. She goes back and forth so much it's hurts to think about it. If she's still going to contact OM... why bother lying about it to me?

So, I'm just going back to keeping up with my improvements, PMA, GAL, and 180s. Interactions with her stay polite and friendly. I don't ask anything about where she goes. Not even a "have fun?" I still look for opportunities to connect when she initiates that. Anything else?

...

This morning was normal. Got out of bed at 5am to do work. Took ice cold shower and dressed for success. Noted that she had been awake since 4am watching TV downstairs and had gone to sleep after I did last night. She didn't sleep much again. She is terrible without sleep. Also, she had said she would be waking up early to work on her business ideas, but I have not seen that yet.

I got my computer I went to work on my bed. She came in looking her now usual tired and grumpy self. She asked me how I'm doing. "Very Good." I did not leave the bedroom. Last time she was getting ready she asked me to. This time she did not ask and I didn't offer.

Kind of cold. Not tense. She asked my plans to the day... what I was doing up working. She said she was going to the store for T-day groceries. I told her want I wanted. She left and got them.

Then she got dressed for work... said evenly that she' be back by 2... and left.

I really don't like living like this. I'll just buckle down, though, and work on pulling way back without being rude or short with her. If she does to a nice thing, I accept it.

By the way, my birthday is next week. As I had no friends in this city, my b-days were always W taking me and boy out to eat. My W will ask me what I want to do. I want to do whatever will get me closer to my goal. I'm thinking just a cake at home. If she gets me a gift, I take it. What do you think?

My dad will be in town on my bday, and he offered to take me out so I'll go. I won't tell him all the details... but it may be good for him and me if I share more about my struggles.

I would appreciate any comments. I'm struggling with PMA today. Thank you all again.

[HPoirot]

Thank you so much sandi for your thoughts on my W's email. Hearing that you understand how she feels is a great comfort to me on this DB path b/c I can feel better that this is the best approach. And, I am grateful that W took the time to write it at the end of such a hard day for us. It helps me remember that she doesn't completely hate me though that is a temping thought considering.

I'm also grateful in a way that her feelings are not uncommon given our history and that a bad M can change and then thrive as a result of facing real feelings like hers and mine. I find maybe I rely too much on that hope.

I admit that I am afraid I trample on her feelings in all this. I want to listen to and understand her instead of pulling back or treating her in any way like an adversary. Even so, I'm going to keep going on this DB path and do it better than yesterday. I just have to deal with my fears. I can.

Thank you so much for letting me know when I fall of this path. I do see that I'm getting better at this and at being me being better me.

She'll be home soon. I don't think she'll ask to make me a drink today. I do wish I had shared one with her yesterday. She lives in my home... and I miss her very much.

[HPoirot]

Just noticed... everyday for the past week my son says "I'm blessed... I have such a great family!" Then he smiles and laughs and runs around. He can tell.

Just hang in there, then. Stop thrashing. Relax. Be happy. Keep going.

No problem.

[Vanilla]

HP

This is the long haul.

Remember100% etc........

W is inconsistent in her words and actions but HP is not.

Are you close to your dad, are you like him? What do you see in him that you love? Is that in you too?

Joy today, your son said a wonderful thing to you. Enjoy it and hold it to your heart. It is precious, give him a big hug from all of us.

Vanilla

[HPoirot]

Thank you so much Vanilla! It is always wonderful to hear from you and read your healing words. You are an amazing person. If there's anything good about all this... it is this board and all of you on it. Funny... I've never been involved on an online forum before. Now I couldn't imagine life these days without you...

...

Vanilla, I have never really been close to my dad. I'm not sure I love anything about him because I've never taken the time to know him. Like I now see I've never taken the time to know anyone that wasn't doing something I really liked for me. If I took anything from him, it's likely my solitariness. I didn't see him around a lot of other of his friends growing up. I am starting to see similarities and I don't want my son to not appreciate me when he grows up. So I will spend time with my dad when he's in town next.

...

W just called me. I acted as if all was great... sounded upbeat like I was having a great day. She responded the same way. Asked how I was. "Great! How are you?" And she goes on to happily describe her entire morning and when she'll be home. We were talking like it was like before BD which is just crazy.

Anyway... I tell her we're out of dinner. She suggests something. I say that's a great suggestion and how would you feel about this other suggestion because we already have this kind of food ready. She says oh yeah! Hey how about this! And we make a good decision! We sound like a happy couple. Just insanity.

Then it gets stranger. She softens and says... "I want to tell you again how proud of you I am about talking with your dad and getting the condo. You really helped me and I appreciate it so much." She went on like that a little more. I said just warmly "Thanks. We're making it happen." Or something like that. I made sure to hold back a little.

In our old M she always handled communicating with my family and handling moving and living items. She doesn't really understand my family as we haven't kept in daily touch like she does with her extended family. She's also never seen me make an effort to connect with my dad. That, and she's been looking everyday for a place for us to live next and feeling stress about it. So yes I can see this meant a lot to her and she is sincere. Even knowing how I feel in our sitch and how she's treated me lately she still says this. So she reached out again to connect and I briefly accepted without expecting more. Maturity progress.

So, I do more to continue to put my needs and my M on the shelf and to just be strong and self-sufficient while my W gets her life and mind together no matter what happens. I have positives in my sitch. I carry no expectations. Yes, that part has been hard but I do see I'm getting a little better every week.

Now, I must keep up this great attitude when the next painful thing happens. I notice my emotions still go where hers are. Even so, I did help to create this good moment by expecting it to be good, checking my emotions, and taking a moment to center myself and deciding to act as if the conversation would be good before I picked up the phone.

So I'm living wide awake then. I can do this. Maybe everyday for the rest of my life.

[sandi2]

Just noticed... everyday for the past week my son says "I'm blessed... I have such a great family!" Then he smiles and laughs and runs around. He can tell.

Yes, he can tell. He's scared and this is his way of saying, "Look guys, we are great together. We are blessed to have each other. Please be happy, like I am". . Oh, doesn't it just break your heart what we do to our children?

Yes, I think I know pretty much how your W may feel. However, she may be nicer than I was, IDK. And her meltdowns are hard on you and maybe a little frightening, if she was the type to always be in control of her emotional state. I look back on my experience and can see where my meltdowns came b/c I was in a really bad place emotionally and physically. I had a ton of health problems (more than I was aware of at the time) and on so much medication till there's no wonder I was bonkers. Maybe she doesn't have the health issues working against her.

I think meltdowns are probably common for most WAW'S. It is b/c they are so messed up and confused till finally their bundle of nerves/stress just has to find release. Don't let her see you upset or reacting to her meltdown. If it is face to face, then do what you did the other night. Listen, but not jumping to her rescue. You don't have to say much of anything (in fact, the less the better), and put on your poker face. If it is through email, handle it about the same way. Not much response except to say, "I am listening". Maybe tell her at the end you need time to digest what she's said. But what you need to know is that her meltdowns does not require immediate action from you......other than simply listening and continue to STFU. Let her melt all those pent up emotions. She needs to do it to keep from going completely insane.

[HPoirot]

We love our boy very much. I know she won't hurt him, no matter what. She does tell herself "He's resilient" a lot. And he is. Then she'll say "He's fragile" and cry. And he is.

My W started out very cruel in our sitch. Before I found out about OM... she calmly and coolly cut me to pieces for all my faults that I thought she had forgiven me for. Our last talk like that, she attacked my character and my ability to provide for my family. That night was my first breakdown. She later took some of that back out of pity. Then I found her OM and DB and was able to get on this path.

She does have a number of medical issues. Anxiety, ADHD, Hep B in her liver, dangerously low vitamin D, she says almost constant periods for the past month, yeast infection for which she takes meds, and a very painful back injury from a past car accident for which she also takes meds. That and the stress of a son with ADD, private school tuition, job she hates, money problems, unfilled career dreams, back taxes, not owning a home of her own, and a laid back go with the flow but often sad husband.

She has carried so much over the years. Every now and then she would have a crying spell. She would call me on the phone and cry and say what I thought was gibberish. I would listen but not hear her. I had so many chances to turn this around. I thought there would always be time.

I have learned from your posts on other threads and mine how to act now when she's crying, shaking, and showing pain. That was one good thing I've done recently on her last crying spell after Starsky said I was being too much like a good friend with the empathy. Thank you again for more of your wisdom on this. I know I'm going to need it again very soon.

But when she's cold and calculating and brutal. What is that when she says she loves me and wants the best for me? When OM came into our picture, she said... "you should just get away from me! I'm terrible and no good for you!" Does she really think she bad for me and tearing me apart will make me hate her and leave like she seems to think I should?

Thank you again sandi for all of your wonderful help.