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I like the smiling idea, Train. I don't want an actual confrontation, but something just to let him know that I know. I don't unfortunately have much evidence. At least nothing I can send his W.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

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Well then, it looks like this is a perfect plan. He'll know you know ... without you saying a WORD.

A friend of mine says: "Transfer the anguish."

Give it back to the person who needs it: Him. Not you.

Let him squirm a little while you maintain your dignity and confidence.

That easy.


M: 40 H: 44
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I like that idea, Train. I didn't want to get in an actual confrontation, but he needs to know who I am. It'll be divine providence if I run across him at all.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

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Journaling...

Not that great a night last night. I allowed myself to get sucked into another R talk. The OM got mentioned, but she wasn't gushing about him, so I let it slide. He was mentioned in the larger context of our R problems, things that pre-dated the OM.

She still can't see how she's ever going to reestablish an emotional bond with me that's necessary for sexual attraction. That's based on her inability to trust me, due to my failure to protect her from my parents, and other selfish and immature behaviors on my part. She sees and is happy for the improvements I made (she brought that up, not me) but ultimately still does not trust me. I simply told her that my words are meaningless, and that the only way she would be convinced is through my behavior. That's exactly what it would take for me to reestablish trust with her if the roles were reversed. When I get in these R talks with her I don't often know when I'm saying too much. It's exhausting trying to filter my words all the time.

After her storm passed and she got back in a better emotional state, we sat scrolling through pics of us and the kids on her iPhone. That's the one time I let myself get angry, when OM's picture popped up not once but 7 times! I told her that I'd like to look at pictures of my children without his ugly face showing up. She deleted them off her phone immediately. I'll check tonight to see if she retrieved them out of her trash or not.

Detachment! Sometimes I think I have it under control, and in the light of day, I think I do. I'm able to see a good life without her. I'm starting to notice other women becoming attractive again. I know that my value as a man doesn't depend on whether W is sexually attracted to me. But when I'm sitting in the car with her and her tears start to flow and she says those things to me, I melt. It's just so sad to think that she doesn't feel that way about me anymore. It's a huge ego hit to think that she no longer desires me. She wants to be attracted to me again, she just doesn't think she can. She wasn't ugly or hateful, just sad and scared. I kept my tears under control, but barely.

I "know" that it's not over until it's over, but it sure felt over last night, at least for a little while. I know that she has to get OM processed before we can make any meaningful progress, and that obviously hasn't happened yet.

I mostly stayed on my PMA horse last night, but I was hanging by the stirrup at one point. I still argue too much when she brings up issues, as if my explanations will do ANY good. This morning when she left for work, she gave me a long hug, kissed me, and told me we'd figure it out.

More work to do


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

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Originally Posted By: Rzrback
When I get in these R talks with her I don't often know when I'm saying too much.



Here's a simple test you can give yourself, Rzr:

1) Are we talking about the relationship? If so, then

2) You're saying too much.


smirk


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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I started listening to a book on CD last night. I can't say the name, but it contains the words "man" and "superior" in the title. The book gets pretty deep, and is heavily influenced by Hindu philosophy. A good portion of it is how a man can achieve true emotional intimacy with his woman. It's amazing how much of what I have listened to so far dovetails with the DR and DB concepts, at least from a male perspective.

The passage I listened to this morning was really fortuitous, considering the events of last night. I can't do it justice in this post, but basically it centered around how a woman in many ways needs her man to be present during her emotional storms, but not affected by them. It fits nicely with the idea of detachment; of being able to go through these times with her, but without being swept up in them, without fixing, analyzing or trying to resolve them.

It's during these times of the day that I feel the most at peace. If I may get mystical for a moment, I've always felt that 2014 was going to be a year of great change; I just didn't know what that change would be. I can feel myself being deeply transformed by my experiences this year. The changes are for the better; I'm excited about where I'm going in life. I can see that I'm much closer to being the kind of person I always wanted to be. The only question is whether my marriage can or should survive this transition. I'm not always sure it should. Maybe shedding this old relationship will be a necessary part of shedding the baggage and pain of my past life. Then again, maybe not. Only time will tell. Still working on letting go of my wife, and of the future that hasn't happened yet. I need to stop putting this on a timeline.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

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Always quick and spot on as usual

Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: Rzrback
When I get in these R talks with her I don't often know when I'm saying too much.



Here's a simple test you can give yourself, Rzr:

1) Are we talking about the relationship? If so, then

2) You're saying too much.


smirk


Starsky


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

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Rzr,

Originally Posted By: Rzrback
I like that idea, Train. I didn't want to get in an actual confrontation, but he needs to know who I am. It'll be divine providence if I run across him at all.


Oh yea, he'll know by seeing your "chit-eating" grin thrown his way without a SINGLE word. Walk right by him like the Duke (John Wayne) who doesn't have a care in the world and knows his manhood down cold.

Trust me, the word will trickle back to W because the OM will be shaking his boots. I agree with Train about quiet confidence and strength. You CAN do this.

Originally Posted By: Rzr
After her storm passed and she got back in a better emotional state, we sat scrolling through pics of us and the kids on her iPhone. That's the one time I let myself get angry, when OM's picture popped up not once but 7 times! I told her that I'd like to look at pictures of my children without his ugly face showing up. She deleted them off her phone immediately. I'll check tonight to see if she retrieved them out of her trash or not.


I'd suggest that you pull back on family related activities as it is apparent that W is still attached to OM. I would suggest that you use this script that Sandi suggested for HP:

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
When your W has expectations of watching the TV with you or any other activity you two did in the past.......have you just looked at her and said, "There is nothing I want more than for our M and our lives to be healthy and normal again. However, as long as you are actively involved with another man, I cannot pretend to enjoy a shared activities just the two of us, as if all is well. It is painful for me and feels like a mockery to what we once had." This should not be said with anger or coldness. It should be said lovingly, but not pitifully.


I think you can modify to suit the situation. Your W still has pictures of the OM on her smartphone and what else is lurking behind the curtain? Really.

Originally Posted By: Rzr
But when I'm sitting in the car with her and her tears start to flow and she says those things to me, I melt. It's just so sad to think that she doesn't feel that way about me anymore. It's a huge ego hit to think that she no longer desires me. She wants to be attracted to me again, she just doesn't think she can. She wasn't ugly or hateful, just sad and scared. I kept my tears under control, but barely.


You are not along in this. We all have faced this at one point or another. Yes, it is very painful to hear those wicked scary words that pierces our hearts. Not fun at all. This is how many WASes feel at that moment. In time, those feelings will gradually come back when the LBS sticks with the changes and follows the general DBing principles. Eyes one the prize, buddy! Your family.

Originally Posted By: Rzr
I still argue too much when she brings up issues, as if my explanations will do ANY good.


Time to brush up on validation techniques.

Validation: Cheat Sheet

Originally Posted By: Rzr
This morning when she left for work, she gave me a long hug, kissed me, and told me we'd figure it out.


This is a positive. Yes, W will swing back and forth. I noticed that W talks about "not being able to get those feelings back" is when you bring up the OM or argue against her. Please be mindful of this and try to be more self-aware of what/how you communicate with W.

Originally Posted By: Rzr
Maybe shedding this old relationship will be a necessary part of shedding the baggage and pain of my past life. Then again, maybe not. Only time will tell. Still working on letting go of my wife, and of the future that hasn't happened yet. I need to stop putting this on a timeline.


I like hearing this from you. That is the right way to go about this. You might want to state briefly to W that the old relationship is dead and that you're trying to forge a new one together. Then leave it at that. Plant small seeds in her head. Believe me, WASes do pay attention to stuff like this.

Yeah...there cannot be a timeline to a marathon. Not the 50-yard dash. Shoot, Usian Bolt owns the world record! grin

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Originally Posted By: Rzrback
If I ran into him in the building, I would simply pull him aside and quietly tell him to leave my W the F*** alone. No violence, no drama. It's my workplace after all.


Originally Posted By: Train
Rzrback,
Telling OM to "leave your W alone" is a waste of energy and breath. If he's having an EA - or a PA - with a married woman, chances are he doesn't have much of a moral compass ... or, at least, if he DOES have one, he isn't being guided by it right now.


Rzr,

Don't do this; Train is correct. Trust me, I've been there and done it; confronted both OM's and one of them in person. It did stop the contact, but in the end, it really didn't change anything. The way I did it could have landed me in jail; I got lucky and let it go from that point!

Yes, you might feel better for saying what you feel you need and getting it off your chest, and you might even get a "rush" if the OM is a wuss and you get the intimidation factor going. But as Train said, it will get back to her and all she will view it as is you "being a brute" and harassing her "friend"!

Also consider if he doesn't back down, it could get heated an violent, whether you want it to or not.

Just my two cents from someone who did confront and in the end the results didn't matter anyway!


Az


Me: 44
X WAW/MLC: 42
Kids: S21, D11
BD: July 2013 (ILYBNILWY)
EAx2: Busted 1 OCT 2013; 25 Mar 2014
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Originally Posted By: Wonka
.

You are not along in this. We all have faced this at one point or another. Yes, it is very painful to hear those wicked scary words that pierces our hearts. Not fun at all. This is how many WASes feel at that moment. In time, those feelings will gradually come back when the LBS sticks with the changes and follows the general DBing principles. Eyes one the prize, buddy! Your family.



Thanks. Seeing the pain in her face and knowing I helped to get her there is still a weakness for me. She does notice my changes, and I have noticed that she has been more of her old self lately. I can't help but think that she's responding to me in some way.

Quote:

I noticed that W talks about "not being able to get those feelings back" is when you bring up the OM or argue against her. Please be mindful of this and try to be more self-aware of what/how you communicate with W.


Holy crap, Wonka! You just reminded me of a very important point I forgot to mention in my pre-coffee posting this morning. We were getting along fabulously until we were leaving Home Depot. She asked me how I felt about us, which I replied "good", which was true. I screwed up and started in on the OM and how I'd never feel good as long as he's in her life. Everything went downhill from there. For a guy with a Master's degree, I can be pretty dense sometimes.

Quote:

I like hearing this from you. That is the right way to go about this. You might want to state briefly to W that the old relationship is dead and that you're trying to forge a new one together. Then leave it at that. Plant small seeds in her head. Believe me, WASes do pay attention to stuff like this.

Yeah...there cannot be a timeline to a marathon. Not the 50-yard dash. Shoot, Usian Bolt owns the world record! grin


I was talking about shedding this old relationship in the sense of starting over life w/o her, but I guess that really applies either way. Our current M is dead, and we both need to let go of the past and start over. Whether we build a new M together or we pursue new lives separately is really the question. She's terrified that she can't let go of the past, and it makes her want to run and start over without me and my baggage. Tabula rasa is one of her favorite sayings.

Marathon pace, marathon pace, must remember that smile

Dead on as always, Wonka.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

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