Mindsin - Part 7 (Dark times)

[mindsin]

Made a big mistake and got myself into relationship talks over e-mail. These were conversations that we started to have in the last day or two but never finished. I first suggested that we discuss two topics.


1.) What things we can do to reduce/eliminate feelings of tension/anxiety around the house. Write down a list of things that are bothering you (be honest with your feelings). I'll do the same. Then we can come up with ways to make things better.

2.) What factors are present that prevent us from being more open and honest with each other.

What a mistake that was.

Her response:

I want to be perfectly clear on the intentions to having this type of conversations. For me it is NOT to reconcile or on the path of reconciling our marriage. It is purely to be very tactical about issues in front of us we need to address to make the living arrangement more tolerable. As I've told you earlier this week, I will give myself two months to in your words to "heal". And at the end of the time when i file for divorce I will not go through a reconciliation period to turn over our marriage. My stance was always the same. Our marriage should have ended long time ago, perhaps the first time in 2006, regardless, it was never pending on my relationship with [OM]. I hope you can see that now. I am not interested in continuing this marriage or rebuild a new one with you. Taking time over the next two months is purely for me. I want to be crystal clear so there is no chance of you misunderstanding me.

And I hope, in our effort to become better communicators with each other, you don't take this directness in a hostile way.

My response to that was basically to reiterate my stance (that I don't want D, and that I want to leave no stone unturned in keeping this family together). I asked her to simply keep an open mind, which was another mistake (asking for reassurances).

All she did was put up a defensive wall and further solidified her position and said things like:

"I don't want to be your W. That decision will never change"

"Staying married to you is NOT an option. I want to make that very clear with you and my stance will not change. Now or down the road. At some point, as someone as intelligent as you are, you need to accept this."

"I will do whatever it takes to ensure the kids are happy. Happy does not mean living under a roof with two parents married on paper, but one of them is not happily married."

Damage done. Now time to just keep my mouth shut for a while. She is going away by herself to a spa retreat this weekend.

[JCred]

I would say it is time for the "Last Resort Technique"

Michelle says in DR under LRT...

Michelle says...

It is imperative that you begin doing the last-resort technique immediately if:

* Your spouse has said to you in no uncertain terms that she wants to get a divorce and it appears as if she really means it. It wasn't just said in the heat of battle.

[zew]

Well, there you have it.

This is why we are always told over and over again not to talk about R. And to STFU. And that you can't talk your way out of this situation. Because the response is so, so predictable. And yet, many of us do just this. Now you know. I don't think you'll do it again.

But mindsin, don't tie yourself up in knots over this. She told you how she feels today, and you already knew that, so really, nothing has changed, has it. She may or may not change her mind over time, and you bought yourself a few more months a few days ago.

So your best voice, from now on, is your action -- no more words! Your best shot is to assume that what she says is true, and to start running your life as if it will be so, while always leaving the door open for her to change her mind.

-Zew

[mindsin]

Thanks for the words of support zew. You're absolutely right, nothing has changed. She wanted to take immediate action towards D just a few days ago, and now that's changed.

I don't want to be the cause of tension around the house, so if she wants to be open about how we reduce that tension, I'm willing to listen. But I'm done initiating any of these conversations. At least that's what I'm going to try.

[zew]

As long as you aren't actively provoking her, you aren't the cause of tension around the house. Tension is something we put on ourselves.

For months, I felt like I was walking on eggshells around the house. W and I even discussed it one day and she said she felt the same way. Eventually, I decided not to walk on eggshells anymore. I can only be me, and that's not the worst thing to be. (Popeye: I am what I am, u gug gug gug.) Once I remembered that and stopped worrying about how W would react to my every word or move, my tension went away.

A WAW's tension is of her own making. Don't go out of your way to add to it, but don't try to fix it, either.

[mindsin]

Last night, my W wanted to talk to me. She says she feels trapped in this house, trapped with me as her husband, trapped in this life that she doesn't want. She broke down and cried hard. Pleaded with me. Said if there is one gift that I can give her, after all the pain I put her through, is to simply set her free.

She reiterated that she doesn't want to be my W, now or ever. She will never want to kiss me again. She doesn't want to hug me. She is disgusted at the thought of me even touching her. She then revealed to me that for years, she's been embarrassed of me in public -- that I have poor social skills. She felt she could never look at me proudly and say "That's MY husband". She looked at me in ridicule for years, but never came face to face with it because she had feelings for me. She loved me. All of these things she said last night.

I wish it ended there. The conversation turned towards my past infidelities. She asked me if I had intercourse with any of the women I spent time with. She had thought I didn't this whole time, because I've lied to her. But now, I wanted to be nothing but honest with her so I came clean. I told her that I did.

She cursed me for making her defend me in front of her friends whom she confided in, as well as defending me in front of the OM (believe it or not). She told the OM that she felt bad that they were having sex because I never crossed that line. Little did she know at the time, that I crossed that line many times. Everyone told her she's a fool if she believes I didn't have sex with them.

I felt the rage inside of her. She said some really nasty things to me, which I felt were understandable.

"Sex with [OM] was far better than anything I experienced with you."

"I wish the children were never born."

She concluded with, "I'm filing this month."

I think my situation is at the point of no return. I just don't see how (even in the most optimistic of scenarios) that she could come back to me.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

I commend you for confessing your past infidelities and the extent they went physical. If anything, you are in a better position today to actual recover your marriage than you were before when you were still lying to her.

Sure she has every rationalization and justification to divorce you now. Your previous cheating (and cover up) gives her near complete grounds to overwrite all her wrongs.

However, the fear that coming back to the marriage meant you being able to forever punish her and be the victim of her adulterous abuse has left the building.

Don't sweat all that other stuff. Plenty of marriages have come back from the I never loved you, you gross me out and embarrass me and OM is better in bed than you stuff way wards always spew in defense of their abusive choices.

The road to recovery is through conflict. At least she's engaged and still fighting and talking to you. It's still a relationship and "relationships" can be rebuilt. If anything your prior experience as a lying cheater gives you the ability to actually emphasize with what she is experiencing. Like you....she felt entitled to do what she did and did it out of selfishness. Now that she knows you cheated first...she feels double entitled to do what she did to you.

You were both still wrong...but you can still recover from that.

I know you think and feel this is rock bottom and it is. But hope is a powerful thing and if YOU can change your mindset and own what you did in as best a way as possible and not as some crocodile tears manipulative method to get her back...maybe you can lead the way to BOTH TOGETHER becoming better persons and an example to other married struggling persons.

Congratulations on taking the first HONEST step. That took courage.

[mindsin]

Thank you for your feedback and support, Georgia Bulldogs.

Since Thursday night, I felt my mind has jumped another level -- another step towards detachment. I actually looked forward to being loved again, and even if it's not my W, that's OK.

And another thing -- I don't need my W to see me as the #1 man in her life. I have two people in my life who already think that -- my kids.

I've come to realize that it's not the loss of my W that pains me -- it's the loss of my family entity. This very entity is something that my W either refuses to see, or does not hold in high regard, because that entity includes me, the H who has hurt her in many ways over the years.

[mindsin]

I began talks with my W regarding separation of finances. I told her that I am ready to "set her free". She thanked me.

That was Monday. Today, she sends me the following e-mail:

"I am meeting your brother for dinner (just the two of us) this Friday. I feel the need to see him, maybe it's a way to say good bye, but I do miss seeing him.

Do you have any plans for this weekend? I was thinking we can drop the kids off at your parents house, sit down over a bottle of wine and go over some stuff.

For New Year's - I want to spend the night, just the four of us. It probably the last time the kids will see all of us together. I want them to remember ringing in the new year's.

Then she went on to detail some ideas regarding a New Year's weekend trip.

I only replied, "Let's talk tonight".

I feel that I need to stop fighting her. If this is the only way to get me to stop my pressuring and pursuing, and be on the road to TRUE detachment, then let it be the way. By that e-mail, she already started "opening up" to me, and the idea of being around me isn't so bad anymore. At least, that's my take.

I didn't get the whole "the last time the kids will see all of us together" part. I plan on simply being up front with her tonight and ask her. In my mind, it most certainly won't be the last time. There will be birthday parties, school events, and other life events where we will all be together.

Any words of wisdom would be appreciated here. Thanks.

[mindsin]

Spent the last 48 hours w/out seeing the W or kids. Met a couple of ladies last night at a ballroom dance social and exchanged numbers.

Is the excitement of a fresh new life as a single man deluding me from the importance of trying to save this marriage? I just don't know anymore.

I feel detached, but lost.