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To recap my last post. W accused me of doing something to her phone / Sons iPad, so he could see "all her stuff". I know she is hooked up to the cloud, but I hadn't done anything with these devices. I hadn't even looked at her phone for about a month, when I confronted her with proof of affair.

She took my work computer, DB book, personal credit card and divorce help CDs. When I confronted her, she wouldn't give my computer back unless I told her how to open our safe. I had already given her the combo months ago. I showed her. She gave the computer back but said she didn't have any of my other stuff.

I tried to stay calm and did for the most part. Apparently she had someone hack into my computer, since it was password protected. W tried to say she saw all kinds of stuff but couldn't give me any details other than a package I was suppose to get the next day. The only personal things on there was downloads of ebooks, video and audio on marriage and divorce self help.

W was trying to put me on the defensive, because I started standing up to her and not being her errand / chore boy any longer. We talked for awhile about each other's hurt and where we go from here. Neither one of us know if we want to try and save the marriage at this point. She wants us to talk more. In the past she did not want to talk about it or go to counseling. I know I talked too much and let her make me feel guilty, so I need to get back on track. I set some ground rules about keeping the boys out of our problems and if she tried to empty our bank accounts or sell our gold coins, that would be the end for me.

She started to be nice to me. We hugged. She thanked me for praying that night in bed. She sent me a text today saying she was thinking about me and wanted to know how my day was going. I texted her back That was sweet. It's going great! Staying positive but don't trust her. I think it is just a ploy to get what she wants from me. Time will tell. Family going on a cruise over Thanksgiving. Praying it goes well.


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Ok...I need to hear from vets here. She stole your work comp, had someone try to hack it, and refused to return it unless you met her conditions? And that just got swept under the rug?

I must be missing something. Is this not simply crazy? Are you protecting yourself from her next episode? I get its 'situational', but that doesn't mean it's not crazy.


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Originally Posted By: Zues126
Ok...I need to hear from vets here. She stole your work comp, had someone try to hack it, and refused to return it unless you met her conditions? And that just got swept under the rug?

I must be missing something. Is this not simply crazy? Are you protecting yourself from her next episode? I get its 'situational', but that doesn't mean it's not crazy.


You did miss something -- "they hugged."

Oye, vay. crazy crazy crazy



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mikechc Offline OP
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I give up! She is a much better manipulator than I am strong. Not sure if it is worth staying married. I am so confused. Now what?? Start from scratch again? This really [censored]!


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Ok. We are planning on going on a cruise tomorrow with the boys and both of our parents. Is there anything I can do to start redeeming myself? I am so pissed at myself for not standing up for myself more. What should I have done in the above situation?


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I had a very similar relationship with my STBX (was a WAW). What I learned after 8 months down the road is that this is what is called a Sh*t test. She is acting like a teenager testing your boundaries.

Hug's don't make up for horrible behavior in a relationship. It sounds like you are pretty resentful of being treated that way, you don't trust her (rightfully so). And you are just giving her more time to plan.


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BigMac. Thanks for your comments. I think after I started defying her requests, she pushed back to put me back where she wants me, so she can continue her double life. She said she was worried about our 14 S and divorce would really hurt him. She played my emotions to a T. W also said things like she was just starting to warm up to me. She wanted us to talk more. How about some action ending the A? That would have the most impact on our Sons. But she still denies anything is going on.

Wondering if I should tell her I'm not interested in talking until A ends. W gives me the BS that she is praying about what God wants her to do. Excuse me! The bible is clear about Adultery. I didn't say that to W.

Talking to Chuck, DB coach in a few hours. Hopefully he can give me some direction, but am always open to wisdom from everyone here.


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mikechc, I had similar issue with my W keeping us friendly while lying to me about contact with OM. I had to confront her and say we're not friends while she's in contact with OM. I enjoyed our interactions and it put me in a weak position. After the confrontation, I enforce by keeping our interactions businesslike. I don't allow the friend activities she still likes to do with me. I do still fall for interaction like I did last night. I am getting better at pulling way back.

So, limit her access to you. Don't answer every phone call. Don't answer texts if it's not an emergency. When I did this, my W freaked out and relentlessly punished me by doing to me what I was doing to her. At the same time, she noted the courage it took for me to change our R that way. Take the lead in you R. Check out my last 2 threads for that ordeal.

Your friendship is important to her. She can't have it while making the choices she's making. That's what Starsky is talking about when he says "balls" and I felt plenty fear when I went to grab mine. You have to... be friendly but take your friendship and support away from her. You'll note her doing what she did... give you a nice talk and some physical touches. If she talks, stand beyond arms reach from her leaning on a wall. Don't lean forward. Look interested but not too interested. Keep you feet shoulder width apart and hook your thumbs in your front pockets. Stand firm. Politely end the conversation yourself b/c you're busy and walk away before she gets you with her hug. Stop showing unconditional support and empathy.

So, plainly let her know you're not her friend while she's in her A. That's the consequence for her actions. Then act like a polite man who has stuff other than her going on.

Last edited by HPoirot; 11/25/14 08:32 PM.

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Originally Posted By: mikechc


Talking to Chuck, DB coach in a few hours. Hopefully he can give me some direction, but am always open to wisdom from everyone here.


Good deal. He should be able to help you find some consistent, strong-but-loving middle ground here. You're all passive-aggressive and that's not a recipe for success, Mike.


Starsky


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Starsky's got it right. Follow the advice of your coach and stick with your plan.

BTW Starsky, you should see the animated discussion I have going on at MB. I think you'd enjoy it.


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What's your username over there, Bond?


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Same. Actually a moderator deleted the majority of the thread because it was getting "heated". LOL.

mike, what's your plan for the trip?


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I saw it. I just responded, but that might get taken down too. I'm sorry, Bond. -- way unfair.

Sorry for the hijack!


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Crazy isn't it? I'm having fun with it though. I saw your post. Thanks for the backup. I just wasn't into them bashing people whom they don't know, especially sandi and 25yearsmlc.

mike, I can tell you that you've chosen the right forum to save your marriage.


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To be honest, Bond, it made the hair on the back of my neck stand up and it kinda CREEPS ME OUT that they all seem to know so much about you, AND me. I mean, he had all of my old "Puppy" posts what -- cross-archived or something, by keyword?

(((((shudder)))))

I'm not playing their game. I suggest you stop as well, but you're obviously free to do what you wish. I just felt I had to defend you, Robx, Sandi and even ol' 25.


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It's like a cult over there. No disagreement allowed ....


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
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Getting ready for cruise and W decides to go for a "hike". Never mind she had to take a shower and wash her hair before she went. W has been gone for an hour so far. Amazing!


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Mike, how did your DB coaching session with Chuck go? What goals did you two lay out that we can help you with?


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He said I need to focus on what works. Keep working on GAL and "lovingly" detach.

Our cruise went pretty well considering our sich. I exerted my leadership and alpha status for the most part. No big issues and she was more willing to follow my lead. It is still uncomfortable not to really have any physical touch and seems awkward when we part. It really bugs me when she says "my boys" instead of "our boys".

It is hard to know where she is really at with Our R, since I really can't believe what she says. Feeling frustrated not really knowing what is working the best and even if I want to stay married. I still see signs of her sweet side, but trust is a big issue. She says things like "on the next cruise we should go...". Just have the feeling that as long as she can keep her two lives going, she won't change or make a decision. Not sure how long I am willing to let this go on.


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Originally Posted By: mikechc
He said I need to focus on what works. Keep working on GAL and "lovingly" detach.



Good advice. Just make sure you define "what works" as being "what makes her make demonstrable moves away from OM, and back towards the marriage," and not as "what makes her act nice towards me." That's a big mistake many people make here.

Starsky


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Yes. I am still trying to figure some of that out. I know I need to stop letting her drama and her efforts to control me, continue. I think GAL and her seeing I don't need her, puts me in a position of strength, that gets her to take notice and afraid of losing me.


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We have been living more pay check to pay check since she opened her own account, so now all her pay goes in there, supposedly for savings and paying off car loan. I don't have a problem living off my check if this is truly the case. I just think W has been more liberal with her spending. Getting nails done often and I heard one old voice mail where she had bought OM some pants, so I'm assuming she is spending money on A.

Any suggestions on bringing this up? Getting on more of a budget and not bringing up OM? I need to be the financial leader in M.


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W put DB book and some divorce CDs she took out of my truck in a plastic zip lock bag, in my basket I keep my wallet and keys in. She took them about a week and a half ago (see previous post), and has not returned my credit card yet. She just left them there and hasn't said a word about it. I have not acknowledged her returning them.


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Hey mikechc. I see you two are still living together. Is it possible for you to suggest she move out b/c you act as if you finally agree she should be away from you? Since you can live off your check and pay for everything in the house you can. I'm at that point now. It is a painful painful process but you'll get her out of your property and face. (Mine is a little easier b/c we we're moving anyway and I really want her to be somewhere else.) She may even respect you more and miss you later. It helps if you really don't care if she respects or misses you.

Last edited by HPoirot; 12/05/14 08:44 PM.

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I asked her to move out about a month ago when I confronted her with proof of the affair. She said she wasn't going to move out of her house. Everything has been " my house, my boys, my stuff, etc."


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Looking for some feedback. Trying to stop letting my W make me feel guilty for not helping her. In the morning I get my disabled son ready for school. All W does is a couple minute therapy on his legs and brushes his teeth. She has been studying for a nursing test, because she forgot to renew her license. She was studying and asked me to do the therapy on his legs. I asked her why she didn't do it when she got up. She said she was studying. I stated that it only takes a couple of minutes, right? I didn't want my son to suffer, so I did it.

After I finished I told her he was ready for his teeth to be brushed. I told her I did the therapy but I thought she should prioritize her son before studying. She got all defensive and said I told her I would help her so she could study these last few months. I told her that she could have studied last night instead of reading a people magazine. W said I had a hard day and that was my only down time.

My feeling is this is her way to test my dominance and to prove to herself I will do anything she asks and make me feel guilty if I don't. There are many things I continue to do to help. Did I pick the wrong battle here? I got the cold shoulder and it was probably the first time she left for work without saying good bye.


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Originally Posted By: mikechc
Did I pick the wrong battle here?



Yes.
Out of all of the blatant disrespect towards YOU things that you have recounted to us here, the fact that THIS is the hill that you would make a stand on (something that your son needs) is NOT cool.

Re-assert your power in the relationship on things that do NOT pertain to your son, unless it's something that just flat-out violates a core boundary of yours.


Starsky


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When she asks you for anything... get used to saying "No, I won't do that." Then walk away. It is hard to do the first few times. My W was so surprised, she asked me to repeat it the first time I said it. Now she knows not to ask for anything. If your W is in an active A... she does not get your support, money, or help. Of course, you do what you're supposed to do for your boy, pay for your home. She gets to do her own thing as she's separated.

Last edited by HPoirot; 12/09/14 03:40 PM.

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I really like "No, I'm afraid that doesn't work for me." But again, NOT on things regarding your son, unless the request is extreme.

Go back and read your previous threads, Mike. I'm sure you will find several places where it would have been far more appropriate for you to assert your power.


Starsky


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I did it because it was for my son. I feel like I am in this mess because I always do whatever she asks. I'm tired of her taking advantage of me and my personality of being helpful. She gets to do whatever she wants and I'm the bad guy for calling her on it? I am really thinking this relationship is done. Not sure how long I want to put up with the A and allow her to expect me to be the loving husband.

Trying to trust God but this is getting to be too much to bare.


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Originally Posted By: mikechc
I feel like I am in this mess because I always do whatever she asks.


I do think that's part of it, and that learning how to enforce healthy boundaries is an imperative part of your strategy right now.

I just don't think the issue you described to us, with your son, was the hill you want to die on.


Starsky


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Still getting the silent treatment and only talks to me about logistical things. Did say goodbye this morning, but it was strained. Going to dinner and hockey game tonight with a friend.


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W has started being nice to me again. I don't think anything has changed with OM. GAL as much as I can. Christmas is busy. The more I think about my sich, I am really wondering if I should stay married. I read stories here and other places that even with all that has happened, reconciliation is possible. I just can't see her giving up her A, unless I call it quits and she sees what she would be losing. But I don't want to stay married because of that, as I know her heart would still not be with me. Some say give it a year. It has been 6 months already. I know we did not get here over night and it may take time, but it would be different if she would actually want to work on it. I feel like she will keep taking advantage of me as long as she can have her cake (OM) and eat it too.

Is there really hope?


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A has been sending me more friendly texts. I have been lovingly detaching & GALing, per my DB coach. I was away on business for two days. When I called to check on the boys, she said she was excited for me to come home. W came up to me to give me a hug, welcoming me home. W put her arm around me in the middle of the night, and she hasn't done that in a long time. She again came up to me this morning and gave me a hug and kiss on the cheek good bye.

I have been reciprocating, to reward the positive behavior, but am cautious as I believe OM is still in the picture. I am not going to just run back to her. Any words of wisdom navigating through this?


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Yes. Find out if OM is still in the picture. Protect yourself.


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I really don't think she has stopped. I think she sees me GAL and wants to have her cake and eat it too. She has never shown remorse for what she has been doing. This morning she said she wanted to go on a date to a movie she had free passes for, after she passed her nursing test. She said she needed something to look forward to.

I like the interest and W leaning back into me, but with OM still in the picture, I question how I should respond. I need to reread some of the DB book and buy DR. Any thoughts anyone has, input is always welcome.


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Has anything prompted remorse? Unfortunately, WAW's in an A won't feel remorse as long as they get the benefits of the M without the responsibility & commitment from them. If you have made a pattern of doing everything she wants, you basically have a spoiled bratt for a W. Part of that is on you b/c you wouldn't stand nose to nose and tell her NO. So, just like when you have spoiled, bratty kids, you immediately pull the spoil plug......unless you prefer to continue living with it.

I will warn you, it takes nerve and consistency, b/c she will not give up quitely or easily. I have seen some men rather give up the M than deal with their selfish, hateful, W. She is just a woman. If she can hurt you and take your power by giving you the silent treatment.......guess what she'll do? My gosh, women have done that since the beginning of time. Apparently, it still works. Just like she can flip you when she is suddenly "nice". smirk. Please! "Is there hope?". Are you asking b/c she was a little nicer to you?

If she refuses to leave, and she has sold you a bunch of BS on saving her money........she is snickering all the way to the salons. What would you do if she wasn't M to you? What if this was boarder staying in your house?


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Thank you Starsky and Sandi. Sandi, I have slowly been picking times to say no. Unfortunately not always picking the right times or topics. I will not continue to put up with her A, long term. As you indicated, I own a big part of the mess I'm in. It is just hard to decide how long to stay, as she has refused to leave. Then there is the financial issue of paying for another place to live. I think I would have to file for D and split the assets to afford it.

I guess I still hold onto hope that my M can be saved. Just not sure anything would get her to change her ways besides dropping the D bomb and actually leaving. But then everyone says to try and stay living together so she she's you GALing, etc. confusing to me...


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Paying for two separate places is not going to help finances.

I suggest you apply the LRT, and not let up until she is ready to work on the M or leaves.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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W has been warming up to me through the holidays. More hugs, kisses, sat on my lap, all initiated by W. Still seeing OM as far as I can tell, how do I know when this is real or if she is doing this to string me along?


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When she ends it with OM, agrees to be transparent with you, and indicates she REALLY wants to work on the marriage.

Right now, I think she's either playing you, or just some general amorous feelings related to the holidays, or doing the ol' "romantic comparing" that a woman will do while wayward: comparing how being amorous with you "does it" for her, compared to when she's with OM.

Starsky


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Hello mikechc. How can you tell if OM is in the picture?

I can only tell you my experience... my W was being nice to me too while not telling me she had ended OM contact like she said she would. So I'm making her home life was comfortable while she has her A. She was very happy and in dreamland while that went on. Can't have love without respect, so I confronted her with... "If you continue your A we're not friends." That made her life (and mine) very uncomfortable and made her very unhappy. Soon after, I took other actions making her life in A more uncomfortable.

If your W knows you know about her possible OM contact, and you don't challenge her on it, she will happily take advantage of you and keep enjoying her A. If that's true, you're her buddy and paycheck now, and it's in her best interest to keep you happily docile while she enjoys the man she really wants. Yes that is brutal... and that was my life for a few weeks. Smiling at you, showing interest in you, sleeping in your bed... then threatening to take all that away from you if you step out of line or show anger.

So, if she is still seeing OM, it's not real.

I took advice to say something like... "While you choose to continue to see OM, we are not friends. Friends do not treat friends this way." Then really stop being her friend. Be friendly and treat her like a neighbor. Don't accept her hugs, kisses, sitting on your lap. Follow Sandi's rules. Get your own private bank account and keep your money that used to be her spending money in it. It [censored] for you too. Just keep going.


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Starsky, do you agree with Sandi2 that I should use the LRT? My concern is I wanted to make sure she saw the "new me - 180s" before using the LRT, so she would have something enticing to come back to. Thoughts?


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Yes, I do agree with Sandi, Mike. I generally recommend going immediately to the after-the-LRT when there is an ongoing, active, unrepentant affair.

Your wife already got to see all your. "Plan A" (see Harley) stuff when you were in your pursuit/foot-rubbing stage, no?

Starsky


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Yes. Thank you for the info.


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My DB coach, Chuck is recommending I stay on the LRT for now, as W shows signs of warming up to me. Doing what works, still not pursuing at all. I have not been checking her phone or where she is going, so I don't know if she is still seeing OM. I just assume she is, as she hasn't said anything about our relationship or that she has stopped her philandering. It is tough to continue on this path, not knowing or seeing any remorse from her. I think she is still in denial mode and don't think she will change until I leave or tell her I want a divorce. As I said before, I can't afford to move out, short of staying with a friend for a short period. It [censored] being in this sich. I have to listen to Chuck for now, but feel like the end of my patience is coming to an end. Not sure if I could ever trust her again or even want to stay married to her. I actually think she tells me she loves me whenever she has been with OM, out of guilt. My boys are keeping me in this game for now. How long should I give her to come to her to come clean and want to work on the marriage? I keep hearing about miracle reconciliations, which gives me small amount of hope to keep going.


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Originally Posted By: mikechc
My DB coach, Chuck is recommending I stay on the LRT for now, as W shows signs of warming up to me. Doing what works, still not pursuing at all. I have not been checking her phone or where she is going, so I don't know if she is still seeing OM. I just assume she is, as she hasn't said anything about our relationship or that she has stopped her philandering. It is tough to continue on this path, not knowing or seeing any remorse from her. I think she is still in denial mode and don't think she will change until I leave or tell her I want a divorce. As I said before, I can't afford to move out, short of staying with a friend for a short period. It [censored] being in this sich. I have to listen to Chuck for now, but feel like the end of my patience is coming to an end. Not sure if I could ever trust her again or even want to stay married to her. I actually think she tells me she loves me whenever she has been with OM, out of guilt. My boys are keeping me in this game for now. How long should I give her to come to her to come clean and want to work on the marriage? I keep hearing about miracle reconciliations, which gives me small amount of hope to keep going.


Who pays for the place you live in? You or her?

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I do.


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Not sure what is going on right now. W is being more considerate and respectful. More playful and warm at times. Doesn't seem to be out of the house as much and tells me what she is doing. I am not tracking her, per DB so I don't know if she is still seeing OM. Not bringing up relationship. DB Coach says ok to ask her if she knows what she wants yet. I don't trust her or what she tells me. As they say, only believe 50 percentage. Wondering about my next move or stay on this course and wait for her to bring it up. It just doesn't seem like she ever will.


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Valentine's Day is in two days. W has been warming up but wondering what to do about Valentines Day. DB coach says to do something she doesn't expect. It is hard to get away as my disabled S has been real sick. Bought non description card, no I love you. Thought about getting tickets to see a comedian we both like, but show is not for a couple months. Thought this would be something FUN to do together. Any thoughts or ideas when still living together an lovingly detaching?


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Is she still in contact with her OM?


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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Is she still in contact with her OM?


Starsky309,

Is your belief that as long as she is still "with" the OM, that any attempts at romance and affection are a waste of time or can set you back?

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Starsky, I don't know. I have not been tracking her or looking on her phone. I think she is. I say that because I believe she changed the passcode on her phone as I happened to notice her typing it in one day and it was different. She hasn't said that she stopped.

I think she is on the fence, so I don't want to push her away, but don't want to buy her something nice or romantic either. I know this one day is not going to be the make or brake with us, but just trying to send the right message.


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Originally Posted By: mikechc
She hasn't said that she stopped.


Then I wouldn't do anything that is pursuing her. Maybe a funny "Shoebox"-type card, no mushy note inside, with a small practical gift card like to Starbucks or something.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
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Thank you Starsky.


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Yesterday met my W for a Kiwanis lunch that my 11 year old was invited to represent his school. It went well. W was friendly and I tried to spend most of my time talking with his teacher and principal As well as my S. W gave me a peck on the lips when we left.

I didn't get much sleep last night thinking about today and what I got W for V day. I got her a generic card more about Gods love. Wrote a note about Gods love and that I pray for her every day. Just signed my name, no I love you. I gave here some candy she likes, with it. She gave me a card that said " to the man I love, no note and signed it with a heart and happy face. She wrapped 2 gifts, a pair of shorts and shoes. She acted happy but no bugs or kisses this morning. She went to play racquetball. May be seeing OM, don't know, don't ask.

Need to confront her on our finances. May do that tomorrow. Need to keep calm and use "that doesn't work for me". Always open to anyone's thoughts or insights.


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HP

that is exactly what my wife is doing to me. Continuing her affair but still wants to be my best friend. Im soon to be moving out and it isn't going to happen. They will dangle carrots of hope all day long just to make sure you're still dancing to their tune, then walk out the door to OM and then ring you on way back from sleeping with him to make sure you're still dancing. They want it all.


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

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