Busting this Divorce - Separating

[sandi2]

I think when your W comes home, or whenever you hear from her, your main focus should be to not ask her questions. It will only lead to more of the same. Just let it go.

[HPoirot]

Thank you sandi. I will leave her alone. I will let it go. I will also start with an IC to help with that. I will not be hanging out with her tonight. I can only get stronger through this.

I will remember that my changing emotions hurt her too. I will remember that she has suffered much more over the years than I am today. I will remember she is not the enemy... how she feels about me is the enemy. I will remember to love her because I want her to want to be my wife again one day.

I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. I can do this.

This is looking like it's going to be one of the hardest nights of my entire life.

I need help.

[Wonka]

HP,

You are surrounded by loving energy of incredibly supportive DBers. Never fear, we've got your back!

Several posts back, you posted:

Sometimes I'm so sure I'm on the right track. Just keep her engaged. Validate. Listen. Light conversation. Make her laugh. Then I snooped. Got mad. Gave her my drop OM or our friendship boundary. Gave her my drop OM or no MC boundary. Connected with her by showing her empathy while telling her we're not friends. Had a beautiful bittersweet moment. Pulled way away from her making her angry. Left the house all day. And now I'm here. In a hole.

My Gosh! What a yo-yo, buddy! STFU...STFU...STFU...about the OM. He's nothing. Does not deserve your head space. Your W knows how you feel about the OM and knows your boundary. Even if she's like a 2-year old testing boundaries left and right.

Connected with her by showing her empathy while telling her we're not friends.

This has me really puzzled. How is it that you showed her empathy by telling her you're not friends? I'm missing something there. Care to elaborate a bit more, HP?

Sorry for the hijack, buddy, but I feel compelled to address some comments 25 made about your A and the whole MC thing. No worries...25 and I are good! As good friends here, there are bound to be some differing view points.

25,

She came at it in so many ways trying to get around my boundary. Like she wanted me to allow the A go on and go to MC to talk about it.

Hmm, I don't get that^^ feeling from what you said, she said she wanted. She SAID she wanted reasons to fight for the marriage and I sure wish you had then and there, given that to her. Like some belief that YOU Would do your work too, not just all on her.

Let's not forget the A you had, that she still does not know about...

W didn't say she wanted reasons to fight for the M. She wanted to go to MC which is an oxymoron considering that she is in an active affair. We (specifically Starsky and I) strongly advocate for ZERO MC when the WAS is in active A because they are just going through the motions so they can tell themselves that "they've tried" and they go right back to the OM/OW.

It is ineffective and utterly useless to go to MC if you know your spouse is an active A.

You keep bringing up HP's past affair. I get your main point with the seemingly "hypocritical stance" that HP takes against his W. However, HP's affair ended A WHILE AGO and now recognizes the error of his ways.

But I'm NOT so sure why you insist on something she won't do...and maybe the others can explain this to me. WHY not go to MC?

Sure sure, most MC's don't help. I agree. THAT part, I get.

But is there some other reason? See, for ME, making a condition that she end the A first, is odd b/c you have not really given her many reasons FOR staying married given the way you both acted like platonic friends and NOT like mates act. You TOLD her once that the OW was your real love or "epic love" or something along those lines, correct?

The reality on the ground RIGHT NOW is that his W is in a very active affair with the OM and she's NOT willing to break it off. It is not the case of a bad MC therapist or anything like that that I see that you're thinking of from the above comments you made.

The affair must end in order for MC to be truly effective and for the therapist to make any sort of inroads for HP & W. A third party in the MC is a non-starter. Problem with MC while in in affair is that it does the following:

-gives the appearance that the WAS "tried" and gave "their best shot" all the while they're actively involved in the A
-gives the WAS the opportunity to let down the LBS "softly" in the therapist's office
-gives them cover to work on MC in the"co-parenting" realm which ins't working on the M
-their foot is already out the door

Hope this makes sense, 25. I mean, your H went all Alaskan and didn't have an active affair, right? Please let me know if I am mistaken here.

I am curious to hear your perspective on what you think why HP "should" attend MC with his W who is involved with OM.

[HPoirot]

Hello Wonka. Thank you so much for your post and words of support. Clearly I struggled again all weekend. I'm working now to get back PMA but wow...

I know I must STFU about OM. Even in my posts here. It was hard today thinking W could have been with him and if so lied about it. She came home happy and whistling just now. I was calm and cool. No problem. We made small talk. She said she had a great day. I asked if she got much work done. She said she got none done... she got sidetracked shopping. Bought a sweater. She had been gone 7 hours... came home later than she said she would.

She also made a point to ask me about my schedule next Friday after Thanksgiving. She has a change in her plans for that day. Instead of going to Atlantic City to shop like she said... she's suddenly going to DC with a girlfriend that I don't know well to see a concert. She described the girlfriend. Told me a story about her. She says they'll get back late and she'll stay at her girlfriend's house in the far suburbs that night. She did that once before after a party a couple days after I discovered OM. She made a point to name the town her girlfriend lives in. They'll have to drive farther to her girlfriend's house than for her to get back to our home.

She also mentioned how I go out now without telling her where I go and she doesn't ask where I go so she wants to know my schedule to know when she can now go out for her GAL. So looks like now were dueling mystery GALs on the weekends.

I know (knew) her. Know her expressions. She is punishing me for being out and not answering my phone/texts. She said multiple times that my doing that hurt her. Nice.

Then she just bounced back out the door to go have drinks with another girlfriend. Didn't say where. Happily asked if I needed anything on the way out. I said No. She'll be back late tonight she says. She's in high gear. And, as she's out, she canceled our Walking Dead date before I could. Nice.

This is a game I don't want to play, can't afford to play, and can't win.

...

"Connected with her by showing her empathy while telling her we're not friends."

We had an R talk Friday morning when she got back from her trip. It was about my not going to MC like she wants while she's in her A. I also said where not friends as long as her A goes on. Even so, as I was showing empathy and not anger, the talk turned into a nice conversation where we had a nice connection at the end. That's were I invited her back to bed and that night she did sleep in our bed. It was a strange talk. No more R talks. She now sleeping back on the couch (when she's sleeping here).

...

-gives the appearance that the WAS "tried" and gave "their best shot" all the while they're actively involved in the A
-gives the WAS the opportunity to let down the LBS "softly" in the therapist's office
-gives them cover to work on MC in the"co-parenting" realm which ins't working on the M
-their foot is already out the door

Yes Wonka, I agree these are all true for her. She admits to #3 as one reason to go and when I discovered OM implied #2.

So no, even though she asks for MC almost everyday, she got my boundary from me directly and in a text so we're not getting MC now. I want to get IC though because after today I am hurting.

...

So now I really have to focus on myself and not at all on her. She is actively making it painful. She will likely be gone every Sunday to do who knows what. I will go out every Saturday to work on my business in a coffee shop and act like I had a great time. No one will answer their phones. And this will go on and on.

I really really hate this.

I just have to keep going on improving myself for myself. There's a lot I can do. And, if it helps me really detach ASAP, then I'm grateful in a way for the way she's acting.

Funny... this morning when we talked like a fool I told her I missed her.

Lesson finally learned.

...

Ha! Was about to submit this post and just got a text... She is now going away with her drinking girlfriend for an overnight on Dec 17th.

I am not seeing how I get to my goal of saving this marriage at all now. I'm glad to be growing... to be strengthened by these tests. But this is getting stupid insane.

Can I possibly save my M from here?

[LisaB]

Hi HP, it sounds like she is really pushing it. Who knows if she is really going where she says she is, or what she is up to. But be assured that the more she gets all wild and crazy the faster she will likely crash and burn. It won't be sustainable. You have to let her go on her way and try to focus on yourself right now. I know it is SO difficult but at this point you cannot control or influence her. Let her do her thing. Focus on yourself, that is the best way for this to work out in your favor.
Hugs, Lisa

[HPoirot]

Hi HP, it sounds like she is really pushing it. Who knows if she is really going where she says she is, or what she is up to. But be assured that the more she gets all wild and crazy the faster she will likely crash and burn. It won't be sustainable. You have to let her go on her way and try to focus on yourself right now. I know it is SO difficult but at this point you cannot control or influence her. Let her do her thing. Focus on yourself, that is the best way for this to work out in your favor.
Hugs, Lisa

Thank you so much Lisa. I really hope you're right. Despite my angry thrashing with my W... I do want my marriage to heal and thrive. I know I'll be a better man for this no matter what happens. I've already had amazing experiences doing this. I'm getting better at handling these low points. I'm even getting better at looking at things like 25 suggests... she on her journey... enjoying the brightness of life feeling like a teenager like I did 4 years ago. She let me go see my OW 4 years ago and took me back in when I came home. It does go against my "programming"... but I can really try to be empathic and understanding of W while I do my thing. If I don't... and she does decide to come home... I would likely have too much resentment to make it work otherwise. I guess this is being a mature adult.

[HPoirot]

Crazy weekend ends... W rushed home from drink to watch the Walking Dead with me. I can out of the shower and she was right there ready... "are we going to watch the zombies?" I said... "no, I'm exhausted. I'm going to sleep." She asked again... "are you sure you can't spare 1 hour to watch zombies?" I said no not tonight. She says OK and walks away. War begins then.

Tomorrow back to (or finally) talking about me and what I need to do being better me.

Good night. Take care all.

[Vanilla]

I hope you mean the war within yourself?

Good night

Vanilla

[HPoirot]

Hello Vanilla. Thank you for your question. No, unfortunately I meant war between me and W. She will look to punish me for all this pulling back. For not entertaining her, for not returning her phone calls and texts on demand, for not being her errand boy.

I woke up too early again and can't get back to sleep. I'm afraid now that I'm really pushing W away. I think logically that I'm on the right track even through the huge mistakes I've made. Now my W is no longer in my bed. She says she's happy I seem to have a life now. She's free to think I don't need her here. I'm not at all filling her needs again... will not be driving her to work... will not be grocery shopping for her... will not be cooking fabulous family meals for her... will not be hanging out watching Walking Dead with her... will not be listening to her sadness. Honestly, I want to not smoke a Thanksgiving turkey for her. I'll do it for S11. I'll sit at a table with her for S11 but it won't he pleasant and festive. Already this is the worst holiday season ever. Our house is usually full of people this time of year. Now it will just be the 3 of us. I should just tell her to go to her aunt's for turkey dinner. Just be here with my son without her. Do you think I should do that?

The advice was to pull way back. I see other sitches here where the LBS still does little favors when asked, runs little errands when asked. Whenever they do they regret it. I have to remember that. This is the right thing to do. I'm not helping her do what she's doing. Pull way back.

Last night I could have done better. I could have said "No I won't do that" when she asked if I would watch our favorite TV show with her... the one we never miss... the one she rushed home from her GAL to watch with me. No more using the I'm tired excuse. No more excuses. "No, I won't do that" firmly with a friendly smile. That's all.

Is this pulling her closer or pushing her away?

She got the message last night even though I delivered it weakly. She came back in the bedroom and asked "Are you alright?" (Why is she asking me that? She's expecting me to be alright with her having an A?) I was upbeat and busy on my computer. I said I'm very good, just tired. Then she started to huff around a little with her nose in the air. She left the bedroom proclaiming, "I'm going to read" without looking at me. I said "Yep" and turned off the lights and went to sleep

We're at a cold war now.

Is this pulling her closer or pushing her away?

Today I'm going to get boxes and start our moving process myself without he asking. I'm going to hustle today... get work done... talk with my business partner and make a business plan for this week and do it. This week I get out of my fog and start reaching for my future. I'll also see about volunteering to feed the homeless Thanksgiving morning. I'll take my son if I go.

I think I hear her moving around downstairs. She doesn't really sleep either. I'm not going down there to talk. Not again. Maybe never again.

I'm not feeling hopeful about my M right now. My PMA is low right now. I know I have the gift of time. I can build my PMA back soon. I will before I see W this morning. I will keep working on my PMA throughout the day. That's all I can do today.

Just don't make it worse.

[HPoirot]

I guess she thought I was joking?...

Woke up and did my ice cold shower routine. Today was the coldest day yet. Took my breath away. Jumped up and down a few times. Dresses like a success. Started my day.

W was in the bedroom. I was upbeat. Warmly said good morning because I'm not rude. She says "Hi. how are you." I say "Very Good!" and walk away to the kitchen.

I'm getting S11's breakfast and school lunch ready. W comes in and asks what I want to tackle today. I say I'm going to get boxes and start packing. She looks surprised. Says "don't you want to wait until this weekend and do it together?" I say "no, I'll start packing my stuff."

She says... "are you ok. you seem a little frantic today. I'm worried about you."

"no fine. just getting everything done."

I was moving around a little too quickly. I made a mental note and slowed down.

A little later it comes. She says... "Do you want me to call my IC about counseling today?"

"marriage counseling?"

"Yes."

"Yes I would like to go to counseling with you. Like I said, I'll be happy to go when the situation changes."

And I walk away saying... "but I'm looking forward to going."

I go upstairs for a second to get composed.

When I come back downstairs... she's still sitting there with her head in her hands.

...

She just left to take S11 to his bus stop. She said she'll be back because she's not ready to go to her office yet. So I'm getting ready.

This is my life now.

Wish me luck.