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#2510287 11/24/14 01:03 AM
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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2500642#Post2500642

This is my very first attempt at a link! first thread

And it is thank you Wonka, it worked

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/24/14 01:08 AM.

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H gave be his GA books to return as he says he will 'never need them again'

Right! If you say so H.

Trying to take the rise as he knows I still go to GAanon. Hard luck H did not succeed in getting a rise out of me.

H has been sorting out his clothes and office today, took great pride in telling me that he had' two early nights' whilst I was away. He told me he had " his own reasons for looking Good"
My response: " it's always good to sort your wardrobe and have clothes to feel good in"

Really?
Am off to 12 steps tonight.

Fantastic GAL weekend with fav cousin and glam sis.
Feel calmer and calmer as time goes on.
Had the chance to rehearse boundaries on HP thread, ready for use in my toolkit.
Going to 12 steps or having IC will be crucial if my M ever recovers.
I am here for the long haul. Will be many months of crazies.
But life is calmer because I am calmer and more detached.
I have this thing down to a fine art. Not!

Shame about the rest though.
I tackled:
Start with a beginners mind
GAL
Boundaries
Detachment
Goals
Now for:
Improve self
180s
IC tomorrow can go for this in more depth
However H is defiant and sulky but at least we are chatting in an almost neighbour way
I cook a meal
H made toast today and coffee
I bought a new Hoover and we discussed a new tumble dryer I can order we will pay jointly
I filled the fridge, H bought milk etc
Very very ordinary day to day stuff
But we are interacting when H not under the influence of compulsion. If he is I refuse to interact and just say " we can talk another time"

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/24/14 04:34 PM.

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Vanilla,

I love, love your attitude! Keep going. Have you read GGG's thread over in MLC forum. She is a shining example of detached cool cat who is out dancing the night away and skinny dipping while her H is still stuck.

Wonka #2510508 11/24/14 04:59 PM
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Thanks Wonka for the compliment, as always some days are harder than others.
I haven't yet but ithat thread is on my list

I am working Lisa's thread then will do as recommended read GGG.

I love reading the threads but they do take a long time to work through. When I have some time I also would like to discover more about Maybell.

I started with some of the guys first to get an understanding of foreign territory.

Apologies for the sex change I gave you on Mozzas thread last night! Hope your feathers in boa intact.

Skinny dipping huh! Just take a look at gg with her kick ass heels too. Must be something in the letter g!

Any more recommendations?
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Tooth is playing up again. Every 3 to 4 weeks a large molar gets infected. Then it hurts like hell. A little like the heart break with H.

However iF I can cope with H , then I can cope with tooth.

Dentist again, antibiotics again.

I feel very tired today. No matter how much rest I get I still feel tired.

Overloaded at work as I have been very distracted by my relationship with H. It isn't good as this is my livelihood and H does not work.
I took yesterday off work because of tooth, today will be interrupted because of it.
One day at a time
Vanilla


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You seem to have a really good outlook given all you've got going on. Its really good to see so just keep positive about it all - tooth and all (hopefully that's better soon).

Its most likely emotional tiredness rather than physical tiredness. Trying to manage this kind of stuff puts enormous pressure on the thinking rational side of the brain but as changes become habits the effort shifts to the automatic side (Daniel kahneman explains this well)

Also I wanted to say thankyou for being so kind to so many of the people round here including me.


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Second session of GAManon in new location, twelve steps last night and Thursday night will be GAanon in old location.

I need the help and support of my GAanon groups as much as they need mine.

Today I feel quite tearful, mainly because I know H has no desire to deal either with his temper nor his compulsions. Yesterday we had three minor incidents, one of which was a blame Vaniila.

For H birthday in March, his S and family gave him a carousel of herbs and spices. Unfortunately the out of date was May (two months later) and the carousel has clearly been in a window and the contents looked spoiled.
H took the carousel to his office and kept it there. It is quite risky to use out of date spices. Yesterday, he found the spice carousel and decided to throw it away. Apparently it is my fault, I told him it was "no good" and he had wanted to use the contents. This indicates my poor attitude towards him and lack of respect. The carousel was given to us, he states and I dismissed the present as I always do.

Perhaps I could have handled this better at the time by replacing some of the spices with fresher ones and then the carousel could have been used.

I kept the carousel on one side and am considering refilling it, or do I throw it away?

The second incident was because of H's GA books which he gave me to return to GA. This is his way of saying "not interested in GA, I can cope on my own". He clearly can't but I put the books in his office bin as if he wishes to return them he can do it himself. He threw the books at me, as if they were rubbish. It is very sad indeed. He has stated on several occasions he does not want me to go to gam anon. It is H loss of fellowship and support and I think if he is truthful then the GA group will advise him straightforwardly. Frankly if he does not want change then there is no help I can give him. I have to trust his higher power will kick him in his stubborn nethers. Somewhere he will get a wake up call.
Difficult days
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I wouldn't worry about the carousel. Most likely your H us just angry and its about finding something to hook his anger onto.

The GA is a similar thing I'd guess. He doesn't want to face it for whatever reason and its possible the fact you can triggers something. Fear disguised as anger maybe...


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Vanilla,

H isn't ready to seek help. I would suggest that you back off and put the focus back on you. You can continue to attend those meetings yourself.

As for the tooth, I'd suggest that you brush your teeth twice a day and gargle it with a mouthwash. I've noticed that using mouthwash keeps infections and whatnot at bay. So I've taken to using mouthwash regularly. Do you have dental check-ups on a regular basis like every 3 months? The older we get, the more frequent the check-ups should be.

Wonka #2510924 11/25/14 06:32 PM
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Thanks Jim, it's a shame really as H loves to cook and prepare food. The herbs and spices add delicious touches, tastes and flavours. It is his present not mine and a lovely stand and of course rotates. And thank you, I find your contribution valuable too. Will write at length on the philosophy of economic happiness and the division of mindfulness and dreams. The experience of an emotion versus the memory of it. what a topic, thank you for reminding me. crazy

Wonka it is his loss as the fellowship is a good way of developing oneself and like this board is full of individuals with personal issues that need addressing. When I go to open meetings with the GA guys we see a great deal of personal struggle and resolution. It can be very awe inspiring. of course it's based on the 12 steps of AA and working the program is vital to recovery. There is a social element to it too and many sponsored courses and IC is free of charge. I am sad for H that he isn't seeking recovery for his compulsions and aggression. I see an angry fearful man and I am getting out of the way. I have no intention of riding the wild bucking bronco. There is no point in being in harms way. These sessions are tiring but very fulfilling.

Afraid the tooth thing is an abscess in the bone which isn't healing properly. My jaw bone is like a sieve where I had my cancer treatment. A Swiss cheese of potholes which act as reservoirs.... Too much information, I guess so.

Still a least I have teeth otherwise I couldn't bite off more than I can chew.

I am off to my new group, will report back on progress. I am looking forward to it.
Shivering cold weather here in the UK
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/25/14 06:35 PM.

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His loss, vanilla.

Just let his $hit wash over you. Seems I have a storm of my own atm. Wish I could be more supportive.


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Vanilla,

Doesn't the NHS service allow you to get free dental care in the UK?

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If only... There is NHS dental care but its not always that easy to access (some of our politicians thought america had this stuff right and so some bad decisions were made). Its purely personal but the obamacare debate just makes no sense to my European sensibilities. Sorry probably shouldn't digress into politics.

Vanilla, from the way you've described it your H must be quite unsettled about all that's going on but the important thing is that you are centring yourself - its much harder to support without a solid base. Your GA is good for that (hope the last meet went well) and its up to your H how he chooses to see and react to the benefit it gives you.

But yes shivering cold is a good description


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Wonka #2511196 11/26/14 05:52 PM
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No, sadly not free you still have to pay but certain things are reduced in price. It is still expensive though but not as much as the U.S. as the prices are fixed under the NHS.

Preventative dental treatment (hygienist) costs full price and I go every six weeks.

There is the impression that all health is free in the uk, that isn't the case. sick

Vanilla


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That you wonka and Jim

Last night went very well indeed. I am very pleased indeed.

Am at my reunion, flooded line made me late but lunch was good and terrific to meet up with old (in all ways) workmates. At this company I worked for a very opinionated and misogenist boss, he was there today. Was not sure how to react to him but he apologised to me for his poor managements of department. Ghast my flabber, could have knocked me over with.......

Any way I am sitting in Foyles bookshop in London, with arm fills of books on self development browsing my brain out. They won't let me take the books to the cafe so I am sitting on the floor with more books than are on the shelf. Trying not to look shifty, an interesting bookworm elder said he was tempted to join me but he had arthritis in his knees. Love it, love it, could loose hours this way, probably will.
Can't catch the train until after 7 as I bought a reduced price ticket.
gg, just being you is inspiration enough. I am going to drift to your thread to tell you about the quirky dress shop purchase and groovy toovy hat purchase.
Regards to all
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Arm fills or fulls?

Hmmm...
Predictive texts.

Bought four books, I need a mortgage for these as they are full price. Still I got lots of browsing.

Have decided to walk down the South Bank to the London Eye and over Charing Cross footbridge crossing the Thames. May blow the cobwebs from my brain or may be what's left of my brain into the water. London is truly spectacular at this time of year. There is a piano bar I go to near Waterloo station and I will have a mulled wine and browse my books until it's time for my train home. Wish I could make these precious moments last. The peace and quiet of the gentle babble in the cafe here, with Ella Fitzgerald singing her sultry Blues over the air. Benches full of young souls reading, typing and smiling at life. Full of hope, students from all over the world having an adventure in the buzzing city.

It will be cold outside, my coat is dressy but flimsy. I don't like the cold, I am a sauna girl. How does HP have those cold showers?
Bracing myself for the weather
Pressing the pause button for once
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/26/14 07:19 PM.

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Sounds like a fine plan. Do enjoy!

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You're description of your London sounds wonderful Vanilla. I've never been. Thanks to you now I something to look forward to when I go. Enjoy yourself.

(And yes... I know what you mean. I HATE the cold. My cold showers are only for pain tolerance practice. I actually dread them.)

Last edited by HPoirot; 11/26/14 07:54 PM.

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Wow....I want to come to London and stroll along the Thames! That would be a fabulous way to GAL for sure. Your descriptions are so vivid. Thanks for that. Oh and enjoy yourself. smile


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Book downloads can be found online often, for free.

Posted a dress link for ya vanilla. Yeah, I don't feel inspired to be me some days.

Last edited by Ggrass; 11/27/14 05:05 AM.

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Thank you all for your words and thoughts yesterday.

Yesterday was a good day on the whole and today has been a hard working day.

Today something shifted with regards to my work and although recently I have been working the hours, this hasn't been effective for me. Today was like the pre bd day I shifted work, and I concentrated.

GAanon at the old location tonight, plus I am out dancing tomorrow with bff. Saturday afternoon I have a rotary commitment and a lovely young lass from Tuesday wants a sponsor session on Sunday. I suggested the sauna at my local health spa, will be good I think to concentrate on someone else's issues for an afternoon. It is my first neophyte so I hope that the session goes well.

GAL all the way.

I love it, all that GAL!

H was very nonchalant today and almost breezy. That means trouble, somewhere down the line. The last two days have been quiet on the spew front so I sense thunder will roar. H will need to let the aggression out. Maybe he had a win that makes him happy but of course it doesn't last long : as regression to the mean indicates that the gamblers fallacy bites hard in the loss phase. There will be rumblings eventually especially if the liquor control pilot is out of kilter.

Still, all still is good.

Some issues to address tomorrow re the house sale, as its going nowhere and ideally I would like to sell and pay H off. I would love a dark period and to go LRT sometimes as being S and living with a human volcano is rather limiting even if I am detached.

I ordered a book by Dr Dobson, it's at least as old as I am and there are some good and some very far fetched ideas in it. For example when it's permissible to D which includes infidelity of the other, M to a heathen, physical abuse. Apparently gayness can be cured too! Get the pastor to give the A a good telling off. But the tough love bit was I suppose quite interesting and innovative in its day, especially relating to alcohol and wife beating. Dr Dobson clearly recommends that female spouses are stronger and state their boundaries although he does not use that term.

The book cost me 65p plus postage and came all the way from the U.S.

Dobson had a radio show too, so historically that might be interesting to trace. I love examining the historical perspective of these theories as this is useful for my twelve steps too. None of this is in any way as advanced as DB of course and some of the thinking can be a little dogmatically expressed. I note that there are references to Dobson letters so I was curious as to the origin of this.
Ruminating
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/27/14 06:31 PM.

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Nothing much to report. Stayed quietly working away.

Black Friday, I bought a couple of Xmas sparkly jumpers, which of course I shall start to wear tomorrow.

Stayed with my bff tonight. Did not see H all day as he played golf and was gone when I left. Told me he 'wants a few beers', so I am definitely staying out of the way. No negative interactions. H is at his brothers tomorrow after playing golf so it's safe at home. Can't trigger any negative interactions, after that the friend strategy will work until next Friday. H wanted us to have dinner together on Sunday but I wriggled out of it, as usually that means some spew and criticism headed my way. Frankly enforcing boundaries is best left to my strong days as it is so draining.

Busy day tomorrow, gym, lunch with a friend and then rotary commitment. I can have my lounge to myself if H is at his brothers. I will be able to watch some films, and sit in my dressing gown. Looking forward to having the house peaceful and to myself.

Gym, and then I have an assessment. Tooth still aches but antibs have done their job.

Some really inspirational stuff on the threads today. Rzr had a big breakthrough and Dawn was dignified and thoroughly DB. This is so encouraging.
I believe after 2 months it's time to evaluate again. How am I doing?
A thoughtful phase
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I went through a long period earlier this year of being physically sick every morning as a result of anxiety. This morning I awoke with those feelings and whilst I wasn't ill felt very anxious.

The anxiety is about financial overwhelm and how I will cope. The vast work backlog that has developed whilst I flail about my M and H.

I am not functioning as I should, my self esteem is shot. I question every small action and I am introspective.

It is very hard and unsettling not to want to be in the house. I don't have a home anymore. Just a house in which I feel verbally abused. It is much calmer over recent months as a result of my hard work at DB. I feel calmer and more in control. I am more detached from the behaviours which give me distress, and when they occur I close them down by my reactions. That does not stop the pointed words from H.

The verbal abuse is now public knowledge, my family and friends are advising me to set myself free of H. H is no longer welcome to private family functions because of the alcohol consumption and obvious abuse and nastiness. Although I am reacting in a way that closes this down quickly , it isn't stopping it starting. Always this is started by H as a result of one of my 'faults' as he sees it. H feels justified in this, privately later and without alcohol I tackle H about the boundary breach.

At least two of my staff have said H presence in the office is disruptive, and his behaviour has improved of late, he is more polite and less likely to fly off the handle. He has his own office, despite not being in it for much of the week. This makes discussions easier and in general his behaviour is better.

I have been closing down conversations about H with family and friends, per DB principles. Restricting myself to this board, my IC and gamanon. I don't know if that is for the best.

A text from H
You are not around until Tuesday morning and you spend most of your time away.
I don't do alone.

I have not responded.
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/29/14 08:46 AM.

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Yeah, I hear crickets! Lol

The whole sick throwing up anxiety was me for weeks. Well ok would you believe months.

I got a couple of hick omg hick lurch of stomach type from no where today. But I now breathe breathe and it say to my self, by the time I breathe three times it gone. It is.


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Yee haw for you and your GAL. It sounds like you are a GAL pro! Good for you for not responding to BF's "I don't do alone" text. Sounds like you are having a fine holiday week. Thanks for the continued support. I appreciate all your words and thoughts. smile


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Dawn , gg this is tough ride thank you for your support

Broke down in the supermarket today. I had to abandon my trolley and visit the ladies, tears running down my face.

Now that the boundaries are being put in place and I am no longer holding back what I need to say, then the memories that I have been denying are flooding back.

I am beginning to come to terms with the extent of the verbal abuse to which I have been the subject.
P
I hadn't visited this particular branch of the supermarket chain for a long time but today it was the easiest one to visit as I was passing. Standing in front of the juice counter, I was suddenly flooded with emotion.

The conversation I had playing in my head: broadly like this:
H: did you get juice? I needed some and I wanted it this morning but there wasn't any.
Me: yes
H: I need to see what you got
Taking juice from fridge
H: when I said juice I did not mean this muck
Watch my lips, the juice I like begins with A, the letter A get it A p p l e spells this twice
You are useless at shopping, you ignore all my wants blah blah spew

This was 5 months ago and the juice was from that supermarket and I didn't do anything about the abuse for which I feel horrified. I feel I let this happen inch by inch.

In fact this was daily fare, the wrong toothpaste, margarine etc

Funnily enough am putting this batch of juice away in the fridge and h bought the last batch of juice. The juice in the fridge he bought is orange juice, standing side by side with the juice I just bought which begins with A.

I don't understand why I still love this man. I am afraid of what else I will remember now the floodgates and barriers of denial are broken and what that will release in me.

Frankly I am confused, how can I not have seen this and put the boundaries in place before it got this far.

I am a bunch of crumple zones.

At least I have my house to myself tonight.

I am cooking fish!
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/29/14 08:05 PM.

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((((((Hugs)))))


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Honey,

I do hope you will seek out your own IC to process those emotions and memories. Your H isn't Prince William for sure. For your own sake, you deserve some attention from a professional who can help you navigate through those emotions and rediscover your own self-respect.

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Thank you Dawn

Wonka for listening, I wanted that memory written down. I am going to print it off and shred it.

I am seeing an IC. One specialising in compulsive behaviour as there are dynamics which ordinary IC can't or won't understand and unlike the last IC I saw isn't telling me to leave my M. She did warn me that I may release as I begin to look after myself again. She also told me that denial is the first stage and that this is like a grief process and I may get angry. That is why I concentrate so much on mastering detachment and GAL I don't want angry, I want results.

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/29/14 08:17 PM.

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Today was a much better day.

I enjoyed my gym this morning.

Had a very good session with a GAanon member today who wanted her first sponsor meeting. A delightful insightful soul who is struggling on her road with a complex compulsive, whose head is up his arse.

I am sitting in the sauna with an open wood burning fire and delicious relaxing tinkle music. Just had a scrummy pasta with green pesto and sun dried vine tomatoes. A glass of blush wine and a fluffy cappucino. Feeling mellow and reflecting on the forthcoming week. H has just ceased his membership of this facility so I will no longer run into him here. That is a relief and I will keep on with my resolve to exercise and get fit. I am lucky I do not suffer with the usual ailments for my age group.

It is chilly but not cold, bracing enough to stimulate the nerves but not turn the skin a blue tone. I may go to the outside float pool and jacuzzi. Even my teeth don't hurt.

I feel relaxed and tired, in this mode I can continue to drift with thoughts of my work. Xmas is coming and I am making a plan. I love a plan it helps me focus and move towards my goals. This week has been very emotional for me, H has like all compulsives behaved compulsively!

I see my IC tomorrow. First thing so I am completing my assignment log. From tomorrow I move to business focus goals. Although this is incomplete as yet, I am more energised. I do not want to have my moods and reactions governed by a compulsive nor by my own unresolved issues.

Peace tonight
Vanilla



Last edited by Vanilla; 11/30/14 07:29 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Wonka
Honey,

Your H isn't Prince William for sure.



More a prince charles sleep


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Originally Posted By: Vanilla
Dawn , gg this is tough ride thank you for your support

Broke down in the supermarket today. I had to abandon my trolley and visit the ladies, tears running down my face.

Now that the boundaries are being put in place and I am no longer holding back what I need to say, then the memories that I have been denying are flooding back.

I am beginning to come to terms with the extent of the verbal abuse to which I have been the subject.
P
I hadn't visited this particular branch of the supermarket chain for a long time but today it was the easiest one to visit as I was passing. Standing in front of the juice counter, I was suddenly flooded with emotion.

The conversation I had playing in my head: broadly like this:
H: did you get juice? I needed some and I wanted it this morning but there wasn't any.
Me: yes
H: I need to see what you got
Taking juice from fridge
H: when I said juice I did not mean this muck
Watch my lips, the juice I like begins with A, the letter A get it A p p l e spells this twice
You are useless at shopping, you ignore all my wants blah blah spew

This was 5 months ago and the juice was from that supermarket and I didn't do anything about the abuse for which I feel horrified. I feel I let this happen inch by inch.

In fact this was daily fare, the wrong toothpaste, margarine etc

Funnily enough am putting this batch of juice away in the fridge and h bought the last batch of juice. The juice in the fridge he bought is orange juice, standing side by side with the juice I just bought which begins with A.

I don't understand why I still love this man. I am afraid of what else I will remember now the floodgates and barriers of denial are broken and what that will release in me.

Frankly I am confused, how can I not have seen this and put the boundaries in place before it got this far.

I am a bunch of crumple zones.

At least I have my house to myself tonight.

I am cooking fish!
Vanilla


Well vanilla. Lets see if I can top your apple juice story I hope to give you a laugh not make you feel small.

My h wanted hemorriod cream, the supermarket didn't stock any. I had to buy suppositories. He lectured me how stupid I was buying the wrong stuff and how it totally proved his theory I didn't give a $hite about him and deliberately bought a$$ pills. He talked for 40 min, when I tryed to explain he would jump on me saying I haven't finished talking your rude as well. He did not use the suppositories and continued to whine about it.

Last edited by Ggrass; 11/30/14 08:50 PM.

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gg

You could never make me feel small, you lift my spirits taller!

I love the extra value too.......

Btw did you know you can use haemorrhoid cream to reduce bags and dark circles? Don't try that with suppositories though!
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/30/14 09:10 PM.

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Woke this morning in great pain. Toothache again. Can't actually work out which tooth as the whole of my jaw is on fire.

Agony.

Yesterday, no pain and today...........

Ongoing saga for 10 months, and dentist has no idea why jaw keeps getting infected. More antibiotics again. If it wasn't such a terrible thought I would have all of the troublesome teeth removed. Last time the dentist inserted a drain into the jaw.

Why does pain seem worse at night?

There must be something about the mornings dark hours which causes it to seem worse?

I had a lot of plans for today which will be difficult if I have to include yet another dentists visit. The pain makes concentration difficult too.

I am determined to concentrate on my work and all my major goals from now on will be work ones.

Ouch!

Vanilla


Last edited by Vanilla; 12/01/14 05:08 AM.

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Takes the focus off the r doesn't it!

Yeah maybe h wanted to apply hemorriod cream to his face, it would be hard to apply suppositories. Lol

The funny thing is he now says I never purchased anything for his house hold. After years of those incidents where he called me stupid for buying the wrong thing even when he wasn't paying he has now flopped to she never bought anything.


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Hi just read your thread. No sage words just keeps strong and PMA. You will be happy again. Rd

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Vanilla,

Stress does those stuff to our bodies. My forehead breaks out in bumps when I am under stress. Arrrrgh.

As for your tooth, I urge you to use baking soda when brushing your teeth and use mouthwash afterward. At two points, my gums hurt a bit and I use mouthwash. Its like a miracle liquid because they do heal my gums. Since then, I've taken to using mouthwash and flossing religiously.

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Thank you rd for visiting as you know I am very much an admirer of your relationship with your children.

Gg it's funny how that goes but I am an accountant; I have the receipts and the analysis.

Wonka I am going to use the baking soda trick, might help ease the soreness. I already use mouthwash etc. dentist has provided me with special nasty tasting stuff, particularly designed to evoke revulsion to food.

Looks like it's a bone abscess again, biopsy taken in case it's more sinister: back in two weeks. Dentist injected anaesthetic into my face and now every thing is numb. I have joined the dribbling crew, and my face feels like a humongous but it looks normal in the mirror. How does it do that, feel weird, like a fat lip and bloated nose. Very attractive.

Just for today sandi I am breaking all your guidelines almost every single one-well at least half, ok a quarter then, well at least 2 or 3 of them.

Counselling session with IC at doctors surgery then joint session with doctor. Both have recommended low dose SSRI which they want me to take for up to six months. The prescription is sitting in my handbag. I am unsure if I will take it, I have never had anything like this before and in general I am coping. Although because of the abscess I feel tearful.

I am sleeping ok. And I am going to practice snoozing, dentist says rest so I am going to rest. And I am going to indulge in CHOCOLATE too, I am going to make chocolate custard with a dash of brandy, I have some ginger biscuits to crumble in. A great big comfort bowl of it and some. I haven't eaten yet so there are calories to consume.

I am ignoring H who for some reason is being solicitous. Makes me suspicious and I really don't want manipulation at this time. Go away H I have a bowl of custard to make.

Tonight's GAL is going to be online and completing my assignment for gam anon.

A sleepy puffy faced Vanilla
Quasimodo has nothing on this lass


Last edited by Vanilla; 12/01/14 04:59 PM.

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I don't believe in snooping, or prying or reading H emails and texts.

The old adage "if you snoop all you get is poop"

There are those who believe forewarned is forearmed. To my mind though it's easy enough to protect ones own information. Passwords, second phones, new email addresses and other methods- even if one snoops only part of the story may unfold. We may only be getting a part story if we snoop and in my sitch only extra hurt.

I don't know and haven't investigated if H is having a full blow EA//PA although this would not surprise me. I also don't know if he is gambling. His other behaviours are rotten enough. I sense H is now aware that H is in control of his own destiny and that I am merely an observer until he wants me to participate. H is going to have to make a good recovery before this happens and I am unsure if I want to risk another cycle of destruction as this is my third already in this relationship.

H is checking my phone though, so now I have a second one. He checks my email, sip I use my iPad. His behaviour makes no sense, but I think mine is effective in this sitch. It's working,

As my doctor says, this is temporary until I can escape. I love that word escape it has a good ring to it.

I need the house sold. In the meanwhile I am not living in the house, it no longer feels like my home. I want to reclaim my space. I need a plan

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/02/14 01:55 AM.

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Clarification

By living in the house, I mean I am staying here but not really living here. I no longer entertain here. I GAL away from home. Not much goes on here other than sleeping. This used to be a full happy home with light food and music.

I don't want other people here, I feel embarrassed by a drunk who insults me. I am not at home in my own house, my own space. I feel I need to reclaim my space.

Vanilla


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Things a lack of stress can heal.

Liver that complained
Weight loss
Better sleep
Wart that vanished after 4years
Look younger
Feel more energetic.
Less aches
Less stomach upsets.


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Hi Vanilla,

I hope your tooth is doing better today.

You convey a real calmness and peace in the way you talk about how your approaching all of this and its to be admired. It definitely sounds like you are feeling good in yourself and that is one of the most important steps.

I get the impression that your GA experience has given you a lot of the tools you need for this.

Is your house on the market at the moment? and have you thought through what you will be doing when it sells?


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gg
I look forward to the lack of stress. Perhaps it's losing the 15 stone wart that releases it Lol

Jim
I have a drain in my jaw and a bad headache. But the dentist gave me pain killers yesterday. I think they are too strong because I was flying and then knocked out. Headache is probably dehydration so I have hit the tomato juice in a big way, as it restores electrolytes. However I no longer want to pull all my teeth out myself immediately. The teeth are still there!

Thank you for saying but I still have very difficult days. Thank goodness there is this board. Often writing things in black and white releases the emotions for me. Just the fact that what I say won't be judged and there is understanding, empathy and the occasional 2x4.

Jim, as usual you have identified one of my sources of strength. GAanon like this board comprises two elements, the fellowship (board members) and the 12 step program (DB). One can't do one without the other. They can't be diluted or changed as they work together.

I keep writing about 12 step but not explaining my view of it. It will apply to the compulsive (WAS) as well as the effected (LBS). The only 12 step program I know which is combined is the codependency program.
The steps are:
1. Acceptance- there is a problem and I can not resolve it alone
2. Hope- the problem can be resolved but only by a power great than me
3. Faith- I am ready for the resolution
4. Honesty- I have identified what my defects of character are
5. Courage- I have admitted my faults to someone else
6. Willingness- I am willing to have my faults removed
7. Humility- I want to have these removed
8. Sincerity- list those that i have harmed and be willing to make amends
9. Action- make amends whenever possible
10. Vigilance- continue to check
11. Spituality- continue to grow and ask for improvement
12. Sharing- take the message to others

Steps 1-3 are about preparing to recovery
Steps 4-9 are recovery
Steps 10-12 are recovered and maintaining

H is included in the list to make amends to. That's hard, H is a gambler, smoker, drinker and abuser but I have to make amends? That is why I was stuck at step 8, for a long time. But I get it, I really get it. This isn't about H, it is about me.
Now I am in the middle of step 9.

Woolworths not longer exists so I can't return the sweets I stole, instead I am putting sweets in the Tesco Aid basket. I can't unsay the mean girl things at age 15 as I can't remember who I said them too but I can replace each mean girl word with a better one by 10. I can't undo the selfish acts I did at work but I have emailed apologies where I can. I once took a week off work when I wasn't ill so I sent a cheque plus interest, which the company acknowledged and donated to charity.

So what about H? Well there is the screaming banshee to be atoned for. I also threw away some cigarettes which I have replaced. I replaced something I broke in temper. I am still thinking about the carousel, and what would be appropriate. I disappeared into my own concerns without recognising how difficult it was for H to recover from gambling. I put on weight when H prefers his women slim and didn't care about his feelings in this. I didn't set boundaries for myself which leaves H uncertain as to which behaviours would cause difficulties.
None of this excuses H own behaviour (Sandi2) nor does this mean H is not on his own destructive path (MrBond), but it means by my choices I can only improve my interactions.
I see the 12 steps and DB in concert, they do not conflict. Some of the other programs conflict with my core beliefs that is why I chose this one.

I have been lucky to learn from the fellowship here and follow the growth of the fellows on this site. There is so much to learn, and who knows I may be lucky enough to piece my M with a more settled H. I am here for a long time.
Regards
Vanilla


Last edited by Vanilla; 12/02/14 02:04 PM.

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Jim

I didn't answer your question about the house. This house is a big house, too big for one. I own a smaller house in the same village which I purchased as an investment. It is partly renovated (needs a new roof). It is currently rented and mortgaged. I will pay down the mortgage and move it to it and finish renovating.

As for H where will he go?

There is no urgent rush to decide but in a brief discussion H said he would rent somewhere in his old area and near a friend who may or may not be OW. I am neither helping nor hindering in this regard. What is clear is I have agreed a cash sum with H and he has given up all rights in my assets. Cash sum is available when the house is sold.

I am GAL but I need to reclaim my own space and I have decided that this will happen in the weeks to Christmas. I will not be resigned to a laundry room and being out of the house.

Please note it is Spirituality not Spituality!

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/02/14 02:19 PM.

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Hi Vanilla

catching up on your thread after you kindly popped by mine. Your sich is a lot more difficult than mine in a lot of ways but you seems to be doing so well, keep that strength.

As you know I moved into another place recently and W with S moved back into the apartment we rented/she rents from her mother. I'm still struggling with the empty chair syndrome in the evening but I can say I feel less haunted now Im in another place and the freedom I had to arrange the place by myself and for just S and I (when he visits) has been theraputic, given the other house is yours you can really go to town with decoration as well so get to those Next catalogues (or are you more an M & S Style and Decor person wink

I'll comment on your posts on my thread over there so I dont derail here but keep going and I know where you're coming from on the teeth, 17 years ago I had to have almost all my lower back teeth taken out due to absessing (caused by diving face first - unintentionally - into a swimming pool floor, yes there was water in there wink ) the pain was horrific as you say, it was no fun getting used to the bridgework but so much less painful that the alternative, you'll get through it as I hope we all will in our various sichs.

Hang on in there smile

Ed


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M 13 years, T 15
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W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
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Thanks edz, teeth!

Had a really good gam anon tonight, a good turnout and two new neophytes both in distress. Plenty to talk about. There is a really good phamhlet called Games Gamblers Play, and tonight we covered the Blame Game. I was smiling to myself as I felt the word gamble could be replaced with A.

Next week we have a joint meeting with the GA group and they have asked me to co chair! The GA leader thought my rather 'fresh' views might be stimulating. I have decided to tackle Trust, that should be interesting and challenging. My view is that Trust isn't neccessary in every area of a R, one can love and support without Trust. In this case of course we are in the area of money used for gambling. The gambler needs to be completely open about their finances and debt. Honesty is essential for Trust. I will need to work on this but I have materials from GAanon that I can use.

Calm tonight, H was in bed when I got back. H did a nice thing, my drain fell out and he drove me to the dentist! And waited without complaint whilst it was fixed. H also went into the office and fixed the photocopier, he ordered toner! I thanked him for both, did not act surprised and acted as if this was completely normal.

My suspicious mind says what's going on but I left it at that, will not mind read. If H has a guilty moment then that is progress, I don't want him to be paralysed by shame.

Hey Dawn great GAL and interactions with your H.
A sleepy
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/02/14 11:47 PM.

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Vanilla on the taking time off while not sick, that's a fine line sometimes we do need mental health time.

I did take a day sick/personal leave as its called here. You can take it for urgent matters like funerals and the like. It was for seeing a L. My reason was personal as I didn't want to explain why i needed a leave day so quickly it was easy to say sick and leave it.

As for making amends I have in my own way been doing that but h sees it as weakness and had been blowing sand in my face and smoke up my behind it was seen as pursuit.


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gg

Making amends to H is a private matter. In general he does not know. The cigarettes left in his car.His washing done or a meal cooked. A birthday card purchased for a family member. Small considerate acts and a more than generous financial agreement.

This is not in my mind persuit, it is the opposite of persuit, it is beginning of closure of eliminating resentment. I am unable to forgive or forget, this isn't sensible with a compulsive. It is the resentment that eats away at the spirit.

How H interprets what I do is his concern and this recovery is not weakness it is strength.

gg this is how we free ourselves from the binds of the past, so that the sand falls to the ground and the smoke dissipates. By this way no buttons can be pressed as the buttons go, as we know within our hearts the balance is restored. The recompense matches the harm, an exact rectitude. What is done is not persuit but freedom from the need to persue. An elimination of it, an unspoken closure. It is recompense by action not cheap words and it makes us stronger. gg you are not perusing but creating freedom in the present, a freedom from the past. H is mistaken if he considers this persuit.

The drain fell out from my jaw overnight and it is truly awful this morning. I guess that's another dental trip today. It's Orange Wednesday so 2 for 1, a girlfriend and I are going to see Paddington tonight. That will be fun and a pizza.
Larks today
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/03/14 07:08 AM.

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I get your thought but it wasn't seen in a good light. So I had to let it go


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H loss, your obligation done. Freedom.

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/03/14 08:28 AM.

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Funny that was exactly how I thought about it.


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I know it works.

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Vanilla,

I have enjoyed reading your sitch and also the posts you have made to others. You sound very wise, as though you have done a lot of soul-searching before you ever ended up with this happy little DBing family.

I am just cringing at your problems with your jaw. I don't think I could function half as well as you are with everything you've got going on.

And yet you find time to reach out and help others.
Pretty darned admirable.

I do hope you feel better!

--(G)GGG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
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12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
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Praying that your teeth are better today. Thinking of you and sending positive vibes your way. I like what you said in an earlier post about doing little things for your H being a way to get rid of resentment. (I am paraphrasing here, so I know that is not exactly how you said it.) That resonated with me and I am going to use that. I don't want resentment and hate to build, as I know it isn't healthy but it would be rather easy to go there and I just can't and won't. I must employ your strategy, as I think it will work for me too. smile


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Teeth a little better this morning. Thank you all for your prayers and loving words.
I will return them in due course.

Went to see the film Paddington last night with good girl friend had half price pizza. Fantastic feel good movie, lots of smiles and laughs. Really cheery. Afterwards cappuccino and girlie talk. I shared my sitch with gf and gots lots of support. Gf had a bad fall downstairs and is now classified as disabled because she was given physiotherapy when her ankle was still fractured and she now has cps. In constant pain she can't drive and her H hasn't coped very well. Her bff died of cancer a couple of years ago, so it's a hard load to carry.
Anyway there is a sunny side to this, she has a disabled badge and is able to upgrade seats in theatres etc, parking is easier too. She finds the jeep easier to get in and out of; but our evenings out tire her. She is determined to go and is really great company and loves films and the cinema experience. We are planning a film day a week next Sunday ( stole the idea from RD) we will watch the hunger games and then all go to mockingjay in the cinema. I will lay on some pasta and a couple of glasses of vino de plonk. Perhaps mince pies, I need some girl power support.

Thank you GGG for you very supportive words, I am gradually working through your threads and Maybells and have had to reread some of it. I try to track your journeys as there is much to understand and some amazing advice given and taken. This DB journey is about giving and taking and to get with it I believe we need to find our voice. We soon get corrected if we are off beam. The interplay is important in developing our own thoughts, and largely a self centred act. I believe that some of the best ideas and suggestions come from involvement.
This is what I have learned from others here ( in no order)

gg for her go get em attitude and fun
dawn for her face her sitch, and how to hold your head up with dignity
Jim for his bravery in finding his voice and his love in spite of harshness
rd for his strong family values
HP for his ledge hanging and his ability to learn
mozza for his fighting talk
ahoy for her generosity
Rzr for his obvious personal growth
Lisa for her remarkable gift with words and her clarity

And all of the others whose sitches are in development, even those who are not yet willing to commit

I love those 2x4 moments that the vets give which stimulate thought and forward motion.
Thank you
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/04/14 09:33 AM.

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Drain dropped out overnight so another dentists trip. At least this time it's not a weekend. Antibs are working.

Decided not to have SSRI anti depressants. They would only be a short term solution in any case and they take 2 to 3 weeks to kick in. Besides its Xmas, the GA L time of year. I am planning GAL, in particular to reclaim my home. No Xmas decks yet, so those go up this weekend. Tonight I am going dancing with a group of neighbours to our local village bash. I mentioned it to H but at the time he wasn't interested, there are two events in the village and he is going to the other one but that's where the heavy drinkers go, so thank you but would rather go to the fun evening. Besides I would rather we were in separate places when there is alcohol about as H is generally less well behaved in those circumstances and my emotions are a little less stable if I have been drinking. I await the spewing and backlash.

There will be dancing, which I love.

Have invited glam sis for the weekend next weekend so that will be great fun too.
last night was GAanon but turnout was poor. Usually gambling is out of control at Xmas and its a time when lack of funds comes to light.
Should be a good day otherwise.
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That rough to loose the drain again!

Go have fun, drinking is not required.


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Unfortunately pain got the better of me, I ended up going to bed. There is clearly an abscess somewhere and my tooth is re packed. It feels like it is about to explode. I took a double dose of pain killers and went to bed. Am in agony still but at least gums are less sore. A crop of mouth ulcers too. Saw a different dentist and she gave me some lidocaine gel, said she had never seen so many ulcers in one mouth, she took a picture of it! Re packed everything but no injections so it really taught me to ask for injections next time. Told me not to use mouthwash with alcohol in it. Wasn't aware it had any but apparently so. Drunk on mouthwash what a thought. Accidentally got some lido on my tongue, very peculiar, not recommended.

More painkillers if it gets really bad.

Anyway had some strange behaviour from H.
He did the ironing, all of it including mine.
He bought some milk, mine and his.
Made me a coffee twice.
Hold me he had not drunk three nights this past week.

Just commented well done and or thank you and said no more. Am not trying to mind read just observing.

More books arrived so am having a duvet day.

Vanilla






Last edited by Vanilla; 12/06/14 01:15 PM.

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More odd behaviour from H

Whilst I was sleeping H
Went shopping bought fish! Can I please make a fish pie tomorrow
stir fry for our evening meal which I used to make Singapore prawns
He played music rather than watching sport on the TV

Observing this!
Thank you H

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Wow, your sick vanilla and he wants fish pie and stir fry

I would google a recipe, for him.

Last edited by Ggrass; 12/07/14 12:40 AM.

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At least he did the shopping!

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These teeth are definitely in MLC, yesterday I could hardly talk for pain, today they just chatter with dull ache. I wish they would walk away.

Last night H went drinking again, golf again today. Another day of rest for me. I really do want to fight this infection with all my resources and that takes peace and quiet resolve. Plus rest and sleep.

I so dearly need some GAL, exercise and PMA.

Still I will do what I can for today.
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Hi. Vanilla. Get those teeth sorted. GAL and exercise. Detach. Take care. Rd

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If he doesn't shop and doesn't cook starve is an option for him.

Sorry but men who can't wont don't annoy me. H did cook, but considered himself a far better cook than me. He could make packet gravy mix and custard from powder.

Neither of their things he could make from scratch. Rolls eyes.

You take of vanilla huh!


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I hope the teeth behaved themselves a bit better today.

If he us walking away he is going to have to take care of himself so shopping is a atart


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Jim and gg

It was me that was walking away not H, before I decided to stand. H iwas quite comfortable where he was except that now he knows his W is setting boundaries, and GAL for her life. I have always had a PMA, guess that shows?

H only wants what H wants. He has had some shocks because W won't co-operate and is detached.

I will not be abused in any way. Life outside this M is not going to be so comfortable and easy, H is beginning to wake up to that fact.

Let me tell you a few of the things that have changed

1. I only cook when I want to, and I cook what I like. This includes fish. If he wants to eat then he has what I am cooking unless he specifically makes a request
2. I wash my own bedding. H bedding has been on his bed now for 6 weeks
3. I will wash H clothes as long as he irons
4. The hoovering is done by both
5. We have a cleaner once a week for the communal parts of the house
6. As per specialist IC the fridge is filled with bread, ham and cheese none of which I eat. H is now getting bored with this
7. I don't buy beer or any other alcohol as part of the shopping unless it's for cooking with
8. I do not pick H up after he has been drinking nor be complicit in it
9. I do not sleep with, kiss or in any way relate to a drunk, I relocate physically
10. I go GAL as a priority
11. I go to Rotary
12. I go to gamanon and 12 steps
13. I dance, go to the gym and sauna together with cinema on Orange Wednesdays
14. I take better care of my health and take vits
15. I read, do TED talks
16. I do not let H insult me and I close down spew
17. I am so detached and laid back now
18. I observe, and check
19. I generally don't take much notice of H rubbish words
20. I follow the 80% guide most of the time
21. I do not cover for H nor excuse him
22. No R talks or ILY but I acknowledge and valid H if he starts to talk but as fast as possible shut it down
23. Getting a lot better on the STFU
24. I take the high road and give the benefit of the doubt if I can
25. I project positive love
26. I meditate and pray

So what are the downs
1. Let H fall over still doesn't feel right to me
2. I have a tendency to withdraw when hurt
3. My skin is too thick and I should find some things cross boundaries
4 I have the tendency to be too generous and see the funny side
5. I pay almost all of the bills, allowing H to have too comfortable a life
6. I work way too hard
7. I have a tendency to blame myself too much
8. I can not get passed the smoking

That's my sitch

Vanilla



Last edited by Vanilla; 12/07/14 09:24 PM.

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RD

I tried something different today.

When I met H he had rampant athletes foot, as I am diabetic that's dangerous for me to catch.

I noticed in the pill box there were some of his old tablets so I am taking them just in case. Yes I know other people's meds etc......

Worth a go for a couple of days to try an anti fungal.
Will not be using a cream or spay though. Perish the thought, the taste would be gross.

As a child I swam in the sea and got aspillerga growing in my ears (for the uniniated that the black fungus on fruit). Drove me crazy and my gran used althletes foot cream in my ears. When I was travelling regularly in Africa we used to use nit shampoo to de louse before we came home. And used neem cream on our eyelashes for eyelash mites.

Just thought I would let you know teeth problem is not affecting my PMA only my ability to GAL. I am not squeamish as some of the kids we fostered came preloaded with all this as a result of their living conditions. I am expecting H to deteriorate as he already looks 10 years older than he used too. Yes, I can see the funny side and I am stocked up on the requisites.

Smiling ear to ear
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/07/14 09:50 PM. Reason: Grammar

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Hi Vanilla

Sorry - Id forgotten that part of your situation - most on here are the Left behind one but the more i read the more i realise its a lot about the dynamic and its which one of the two had enough first.

thats a really good list of changes. your postivity always comes accross in your posts

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

So what are the downs
1. Let H fall over still doesn't feel right to me
2. I have a tendency to withdraw when hurt
3. My skin is too thick and I should find some things cross boundaries
4 I have the tendency to be too generous and see the funny side
5. I pay almost all of the bills, allowing H to have too comfortable a life
6. I work way too hard
7. I have a tendency to blame myself too much
8. I can not get passed the smoking


do you mind if i ask a couple of questions on these?

3) what do you mean 'cross boundaries?' - if you have a thick skin thats good but in the past you've talked about the screaming banshee and so i'm just trying to equate the two
4) why do you see this as a down?
5)when/how do you think you might broach this topic?
6)Is your working making you unhappy? you seem to balance leisure activities in there as well so is it an issue for other reasons?
8) whose smoking? i think i've missed/forgotten this somewhere


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I can relate to the screaming banshee, but I only did it on one occasion.

I was gunna kill him, I suspected ow amounts other things. I flipped out.
Turn out like many here, I knew I knew that I knew simple.

In a sense I always had dreams that predicted the future. Once many years ago I dreamed he cheated ow was blonde, but the dream was so real it invaded my day and left me really rocked. H brushed it off and now I know he made no attempt to validate or address my feeling. To make matters worse he the belittled me as well.

It was a very predictive dream in many ways, scrary now I think back.


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The cross boundaries thing I think vanilla means she sets a boundary but because most stuff doesn't overly bother her at first, she lets it go.

Then later she feels that it was crossed but her chance to enforce that boundary is lost after the fact.

Am I correct vanilla?
Cause if so I haz the same issue exacery! Funny a lot of women do.
We think letting things go is for the betterment of the r, when in fact it's not.


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Originally Posted By: Ggrass
The cross boundaries thing I think vanilla means she sets a boundary but because most stuff doesn't overly bother her at first, she lets it go.

Then later she feels that it was crossed but her chance to enforce that boundary is lost after the fact.

Am I correct vanilla?
Cause if so I haz the same issue exacery! Funny a lot of women do.
We think letting things go is for the betterment of the r, when in fact it's not.


Spot on as usual gg
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Apologies all I posted my previous post too soon, will report.

Thanks Jim

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

So what are the downs
1. Let H fall over still doesn't feel right to me
2. I have a tendency to withdraw when hurt
3. My skin is too thick and I should find some things cross boundaries
4 I have the tendency to be too generous and see the funny side
5. I pay almost all of the bills, allowing H to have too comfortable a life
6. I work way too hard
7. I have a tendency to blame myself too much
8. I can not get passed the smoking


do you mind if i ask a couple of questions on these?

3) what do you mean 'cross boundaries?' - if you have a thick skin thats good but in the past you've talked about the screaming banshee and so i'm just trying to equate the two

The screaming banshee is one of my shadow characters, she defends me when I feel like I am being attacked. So when H started to spew my natural reaction was to be shrill and respond back. Which escalates the problem interaction. However as gg says because my boundaries are not very strong (or sometimes don't exist) andI am so laid back little bothers me. Until it does, but I don't explode, I screech back instead and the world can change. I don't know why but H loved pressing those buttons until he triggered the reaction. Now with stronger boundaries I am more in control. I just stay stop and walk away. The trouble is this is emotional not necessarily easy to control especially when I am distressed. It's a primary fight response which needs replacing with a flight response.

4. why do you see this as a down?
It isn't always a down, but I have this capacity to turn situations into cartoons in my mind. For example when H spews I see H as a Disney Cigar Smoking baby. This enables me to reduce the severity of the interaction. Good at the time but often I fail to follow up in the cool light of morning. It means I should do more. Because I am so detached they often I don't act in my own best interest. Often behaviour has to become extreme before I do. That causes more damage. I need to react sooner. It isn't because I can't it's because I fail to do it. I have capacity but not the need. I am trying to become more mindful and aware. It is weak and I am trying to change it.

5)when/how do you think you might broach this topic?
Actually this one is very tough. H is a compulsive, gambler, smoker, drinker and spender. I have separated our finances (so he can't spend my money) for example. After a lifetime of work H has nothing but debts. He has cashed in his pension scheme etc. H has earned twice or three times the amount I do, I am largely self employed so it's a very tough environment but I am a saver. I don't have the same needs. I don't smoke, drink, gamble, and I am the charity shop Queen. I have never believed in debt and never had any until recently. I also take great care of my stuff, I repair and replenish. I cook rather than have takeout etc......
H gave up work within 3.5 months of marriage saying he had memory issues, after I forced a medical checkup turns out there is nothing wrong with him! I was supportive of H giving up work but I should not have been. I have ended up with all the burdens whilst H plays golf, drinks, smokes etc. that is why I have forced a financial settlement early, the longer the marriage the more the courts will give him. I will not be his meal ticket when he behaves like this.


6. Is your working making you unhappy?
oh I love my work and I am very good at what I do. I can't say more but in the corporate world I am known. I wanted to slow down a little because of my age.

you seem to balance leisure activities in there as well so is it an issue for other reason?


Yes, it is the volume I have to do. Usually I start at 4:30 in the morning and work until 7 or 8 at night often 6 or 7 days a week. And then I go GAL.

8. whose smoking? i think i've missed/forgotten this somewhere?

H smokes heavily. I hate the smell especially combined with beer, it is a repellant for Vanilla. It makes me wretch and that is one of the reasons H does it. He smokes in his car and he doesn't change his bedding, it is an effective barrier to any type of intimacy. I won't travel in his car unless it's necessary, so I run two cars, my little daewoo Matiz and a Jeep (which is very old but can be fumigated). When I met H he did neither of these things, in fact although he had smoked before, he stopped. His excuse is that I create stress etc (spew spew) so I am responsible for him starting smoking again.

I hope I have explained a little more.
I guess I have many noodle moments.

My first H died and we were very happy indeed.

My second H and I had more of a business type marriage without much passion, but it was very respectful. That marriage fizzled out by mutual consent, it was more companionship than anything and we were in the same line of work so we collaborated on projects. We never competed as our client bases were very different.

This M is crazy and whilst I love H very much, the behaviours and interactions are not what I want in my life. Doing DB and gam anon is important for me, but I am just an ordinary commoner with a difficult H. This was outside my experience, in the past abuse would be way from my mind. It was not a possibility, nor would I have been subject to it. Both of my previous H were true gentlemen and strong moral characters. Neither drank, smoked, gambled, overspent or spewed. They were secure strong men, each in different ways, but both kind and hard working. Of course there were issues but normal ordinary solvable ones. With H1 with love and H2 with negotiation and compromise.
I confess that I have only had 4 boyfriends and I married 3 of them and was engaged to the 4th. I did have a couple of blind dates that ended in alleys but that is the sum total of my experience, not really enough to spot the difficulties in H. I am standing not walking.
I want to believe love conquers all, with help from DB of course.
Thank you for asking

Reflective

Vanilla

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Jim. I wanted to save one of your questions for a later time, because it requires a fuller answer. The one on blame.

H is trying a new tactic- heavy sarcasm.

For example

H: you have spent the last few days in bed being lazy, you need to be gone by now it's halfpast eight. Do you know that?
I suppose that means you are giving up on work
Me: no I am waiting for the dentist to open, as I am in pain
H: you are not the only one finding your teeth painful! (Heavy sarcasm)
Me zero response

Another one this morning
H: you have a text message from Big B
Hands me phone
Me: yes it's Debra she is coming in to work
H: oh is she really? Glad someone is. (Heavy sarcasm)
Me zero response

This is where I might find it funny and let it go. maybe I should react. I haven't yet got a boundary on sarcasm.

I could really do with another day in bed, but teeth are better this morning, so is my athletes foot laugh
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/08/14 08:55 AM.

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Oh I got that one, lots.
drove me mad. I could have bleed to death with an eptopic pregnancy and I was still lazy.


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Curiouser and curiouser

H behaviour is getting stranger and stranger. He actually thinks that He can get away with anything unseen. H, you are so manipulative. All of the following has happened today.

Quite extraordinary.

H has bought himself an e cigarette, he was showing this to the office staff today. It's to help him give up smoking, because when we move to the new offices he does not want to smell of cigarettes as no one else smokes.

I immediately raced to my car on hearing this, drove to the end of the road and roared with laughter where no one can see me.

H is growing a beard.

H spent his October and November pay on upgrading his car to an Audi A4. His wife drives bangers, but H wants a leather interior and 0 to sqillions in nanoseconds. To impress his golfing buddies and others.

It will be medallions next and an earring.

H has loans, overdrafts and credit card debts and can't afford to pay his bills.

I am no longer paying his debts, they have been transferred to his account from mine. If his share of the bills doesn't get paid, I will reduce the settlement by the value.

The reason he has e cigarettes is he wants to impress with his car and it smelling clean not of fag ash.

Vanilla has shifted.

Sweet
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/09/14 02:05 AM.

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Love, love your sense of humor, Miss Vanilla. laugh You have a unique way of looking at your H and the situation you're in. Isn't that the good ol' distinctive British stiff upper lip that is downright disdainful of airing one's dirty laundry in public. That sort of thing isn't done at all.

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Oh, and are you sure your H isn't Oswalt from Keeping Appearances? wink

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Vanilla,

As far as the sarcasm, I've always seen that as covering up some insecurities that people have in themselves; i.e. if you can't be mature and address the issue or say nothing, then try to be funny and it makes it all better???


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Thank you Wonka, the difference between H and Onslow from Appearances is H really cares what others think of him. Onslow doesn't. But you are running on the right lines there.

MCS, it is the character of the compulsive to be really insecure. They need the trappings of wealth they believe that the car, the house, the holiday home, the golf club etc are the most important. They also want to be the one that buys the drinks and he that does this is the 'good guy'. They want to be James Bond. But none of this is satisfying, it's like they are never full, then there are cruises, casinos, better cars, cashmere jumpers and socks. They don't really get it!

Satisfaction comes from the soul, it comes from doing a job you love, the laughter of friends over a simple coffee, the delight at a film on an orange Wednesday, the cuddle of a sick child, the sparkle in the eyes of a parent. It comes from love, sharing and giving as well as receiving. It comes from inside, from values, thoughts and true connection. It is from entwining in sexual connection with another, from release and personal pleasure wrapped in attachment.

If you look hard then improvements on the journey of the spirit and the progress of the Pilgrim elucidate. We all have moments when these externals matter more, we are human after all. But to live your life needing this external validation is a very shallow.

H and I come from very similar backgrounds, both truly educated class. The intellectual elite, those who have been offered the gift of education and the opening of doors to the wealth of the mind. There is one difference though whilst my world was consumed with knowledge and the overwhelming splendour of the gifts on offer, H was consumed with the material things of life. There is no doubt that at the starting gate his world was infinitely kinder, that he could take with ease the learning, he picked up learning without effort. Vanilla had to apply herself , she had ADD and a poor memory, it was a harder road. H and I share the same IQ, in that we are both extraordinary. Trust me when I say that H has every tool of the master manipulator and knows how to play to advantage.

H has needs, wants and desires and they grow with the capacity to fulfil them. He is an aggressive man because at the end of the day he has nothing but illusion. That is compulsion, true compulsion to feed the emptiness with the trappings of this world.

So why did H want Vanilla. Vanilla is beautiful and has a stable base in her life, she has PMA and work she adores. She has assets which can be plundered and more than that she is unaware. Vanilla is Vanilla, what you see is what you get. There are no secrets or skeletons in that closet.

The mask falls on H, Vanilla is not enough. Vanilla will not live with deceit or lying about gambling etc, Vanilla lets the truth be known. Vanilla does not struggle alone ashamed and guilty, she says GA, she says DB. She makes boundaries for herself.

H has to work very hard to hide the truth from himself, in an environment in which H is to be held to account for his behaviour and actions. And it is H own higher power which does that for him. His cheeseless tunnel is a long tunnel and he runs up and down it at increasing pace. H is way beyond MLC, he is compulsive. It is destructive to his soul and to his M but not to mine unless I let it.

H is a lost soul but his A4 will make him happy for a while, as will his new cashmere jumper, his golf clubs, his steak dinner and whichever potential OW catches his eye. But not for long, he is cycling faster in ever decreasing circles, looking out but not looking in.

I can see it, it makes me smile, it is what it is, he is what he is. Only H can learn the true wealth that is within his grasp. I am neither the cause nor the cure. And as for potential (actual?) OWs the behaviour is obvious H has no substance to him, he cannot show more than passing fancy, he is to connected to his toys. There is a stage in an R when obsession in another is required, H is too selfish so he relies on pretence. That won't last too long.

Lies and truth? I have always believed in the truth. The validity of experience is stored as long term memory, lies are stored as short term memories. Physiologically these are different, at night the mind clears the short term memory, that is why lies are harder to remember the following day and with each passing day. They need to be shifted to long term memory. To do so requires repetition, repetition reminds us we have lied so the subconcious will not want to repeat the lie to the conscious mind. The way to catch a liar is to challenge the following day. I do this with H, I check the truth. I appear to accept at the time and then the following days I validate. Often I find that the accusations H levies are those things he does himself.

There is exposure of H to himself. H was convinced he only drank 3 days a week until I started putting x on the calendar. To start with ( of course) it was an exceptional week but the exceptional weeks continued. H was sure he didn't play golf five times a week and every Saturday and Sunday, this was just an unusual period for it, so I mark the colander with a star for every golf day. He has to keep a timesheet so the truth of the hours he works is there.

So it goes. Wonka what I find in myself is not the stiff upper lip, more like the Dunkirk spirit. H sees James Bond style and we see Onslow style.

Vanilla



Last edited by Vanilla; 12/09/14 08:10 AM.

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I marked the calendar not collender, but hey there is a thought if that's where H leaves his spituality.

Belly laughing
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/09/14 08:14 AM.

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Just been decking the halls with boughs of holly. Another 180, I usually really go to town at Xmas. I have boxes and boxes of Xmas decorations in all colours, some of which are my grandparents from when they were children. It's a time to remember for me.

This year a token something, no tree. We have a spiral staircase and usually it is lit and full of wonderful Xmas baubles and trinkets. Not this year, but I have to have some things. I have bought cheap things I will throwaway. Ok they will go to the office next year. This is house not a home.

But my fellow travellers there will be declicious smells of Xmas, cinnamon, clove, ginger, orange, tangerine and frankincense. The real deal not of the puff stuff. Last year I raided Harrods for its left over Xmas oils. They have been kept safe and oh the deliciousness.

There is holly which this year is full of berries and ivy which is full of spiders taken from the frosted garden. I couldn't find the secateurs H used them last and he uses the random method of putting things away. Warning: holly doesn't cut with pinking sheers or pliers, I tried. You have to borrow proper tools if yours are missing.

It is our staff Xmas Party today so I have done the deed as everyone repairs after the lunch repast to our house for coffee brandy and chocs. Xmas music and good cheer.

I can't drink as I am on antib, alcohol is a risk to be taken only if I am prepared to undertake a full organ transplant. H will be around and I don't drink when he drinks. Besides I have to go cochair a GAanon meeting tonight. A clash of GAL! So much of it flowing in my direction. How mega wonderful.

Unable to connect until tomorrow.
Have great GAL until then!
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/09/14 11:07 AM.

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Nice and Christmassy by the sounds van.

Lets hope it's all goes well and your teeth are fixed soon.


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Oooo love spiral staircases, it all sounds brilliantly, authentically seasonal to me.

I was planning on being Mr Grinch but have put up a tree with S (W has all our decorations and I didnt have the heart to split them) and we bought some new ones just for S and I.

Haven't put any holly up though, like that idea.


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
W coming closer, talking 4/2015
Piecing 5/2015
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Hi Vanilla,

I've seen your wise words on other people's threads so stopped by to catch up on your story. Have to confess, there were a few tears. It's hard reading this board sometimes. So many great people experiencing such difficult times. I wish you well in this journey. Your Christmas house sounds amazing!

In regards to your teeth troubles - my dad is a dentist and he always recommends that I gargle with warm salty water as a first line response to tooth aches. No special recipe, just take a cup of warm water, chuck in a teaspoon or so of salt and stir til it dissolves.


H 37 Me 36
Together 15 years
Married 5 years
No kids
BD Apr 2014
H moved out 2 Jun 2014
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H was very difficult today.

He went to golf and then turned up to the staff party. We were due at 12:30 for 13:00. A senior member of the team and I were dealing with a particular issue. At 12:40, a telephone call from H who is already at the venue. "Where were we?" "They were waiting at the venue"

Then we all arrived at 13:00 to be greeted by H, I was rude inconsiderate.... Spew

He had already had 2 pints of beer, followed by 2 more and finally 2 glasses of red wine. So by the end of the meal H is well over the drink driving limit. Near to the end, a tannoy request to move my jeep please. No issue. H jumps up goes out to the jeep and starts to move my car.
I stop him of course,
H is using his keys. I politely point out that he is over the limit and that I am not drinking alcohol. So of course a couple of sarcastic comments later, mainly about the quality of my driving, I have moved the car. I said zero.

Meal was wonderfu, and I drove home. Coffee at home etc with the crew, wonderful GAL.

About 5:15 I need to go to the loo, because of the antibs my digestive tract is a bit chaotic. H decides to come upstairs and tell me off, I have spent too long in the loo for his liking. He just barges straight in and I am on the loo.

H has discovered that I have plans for Sunday. That does not suit him as he might want to watch sport on the TV. No issues I say, we are playing DVDs and singing karaoke so he can watch any sport he likes.

He proceeds to tell my guests that he will watch sport In his living room any time he wants to.

I also learn H has bought an expensive golf buggy (his Christmas Present) and given each member of his family a Christmas present of cash from the joint account. The Xmas present is on the basis that he always gives them this sum each.

At 5:30 he has arranged with the landlord of the pub to go out for 'a few beers'. So he leaves. I say nothing.

I went to my meeting, which I loved and got a lot from tonight. I told the assembled group about H and his behaviour and how angry I am at the public humiliation. I know of course that H is responsible for his own behaviour and this reflects badly on him rather than me.

After the meeting I rang by bff and have gone to stay there. I know H will be annoyed because his car is at the pub over 2 miles away and he needs a lift to collect it. I text H to tell him that I would be home in the morning but did not leave an explanation. H was spoiling for a fight and I am not giving him any opportunity.

At least two of my staff have said if I need a place to stay that I can stay with them. This was completely unprompted of course. But I am not going to leave my house. This Xmas I will reclaim my space, and whilst I am not unreasonable, I can live there too.

Today is another day
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/10/14 01:38 AM.

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Arrived home and H has already left to walk to his car.

Thank goodness.

Text exchange

H am out today will be in the office tomorrow
Me Do you need a lift to get your car?
H no walked to get my car
Me Ok so will you be at home when the drier repair man calls
H No
Me Ok have a great day

Leaves me with a big problem today, office to attend to and tumble drier repair booked. I could really cry. This behaviour is escalating again and I really don't know what to do further.

However if H is not about I am going to check about the gambling and then call him on it.

Is this wrong to do?
Should I pry into H financials?
Mine are an open book.

It is what it is.
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/10/14 09:27 AM.

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Hi vanilla,

Really sorry to read about your H behaviour yesterday. If there is a positive its how well you conducted yourself and that others will have seen the contrast.

You were sensible to stay at a friends house I think.

As for the financials personally I think its seperate them as much as possible then leave him to his. I don't know how possible that is for you?

What effect do you think checking and/or calling him out on his gambling would do. In the past when you've said something you've got spew back. Would you expect something different?

Its said a lot but worth repeating. I have a lot of admiration for the way your approaching all of this and in particular the time you give to supporting others.


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The fact he drinks as much as you say makes him just difficult.

My xh drank heaps. I never knew what a pia drinks could be till you had to spend night sitting waiting will midnight to drive one home. Twice I left him to walk home 15km.
Once because he refused to come, another because he threw a tantie and got angry at me for something I had no control over.

Finding ways to just let it wash can be tough.


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Originally Posted By: jim0987


As for the financials personally I think its seperate them as much as possible then leave him to his. I don't know how possible that is for you?

What effect do you think checking and/or calling him out on his gambling would do. In the past when you've said something you've got spew back. Would you expect something different


Thanks Jim, I feel in a turmoil not calm at all. A little like a duck much more going on underwater. I really feel quite lost and today tearful. I still love my H and I want my marriage.

I was planning a quiet evening but I suspect H will be out to press buttons. Ok mind reading but would think 80% probable, either that or he will chase a potential OW. His deceased wife had a piosonous friend, who was one of my clients and I had to sue to get paid. I won in court but never ended up getting paid, they folded the company owing me 000s in directors fees. He may go there to stay or he may pick an OW from somewhere or the other.

I am actually quite vulnerable to a vindictive attack if H chooses the right ally as I have to practice as a member of 3 different institutes without limited protection. Of course there is PI but try getting that again after the wrong case is fought. Even if one wins the costs are astronomical. This is a difficult path I tread.

I think the best thing I can do is find out the extent of the gambling/spending damage but not call on it. You are right all I would get is temper and spew.

I wonder if when I text I should have said staying at bffs. This way I don't know what state he was in.
Thank you for your support
Vanilla


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Originally Posted By: Ggrass

My xh drank heaps. I never knew what a pia drinks could be till you had to spend night sitting waiting will midnight to drive one home. Twice I left him to walk home 15km.
Once because he refused to come, another because he threw a tantie and got angry at me for something I had no control over.


You would have thought a 15 k trek drunk would have been enough to stop him triggering it again!


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Well the once when he was drunk went something like he walked a few km right up the center of the highway on the middle line. On a very cold and frosty night, I think the the ride home in the night way patrol car might have had more effect than anything. They did only drop him at the edge of the dirt road so a few km walk in.

The time he went right off at me absuing me for some thing he did, I got up and left while he was in the shower at his mates. I drove past him later on about half way home, I refused to stop.

When he got home his question was why didn't you stop?

Gg well I thought you would have been really pi$$ed off so I saved your breathe for the important task of walking another 8km home. You feel much calmer now right?

I guess your right and yeah Im too tired from walking to be angry.


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Hi Vanilla

sorry to hear things are difficult at the moment. W is also still picking at our joint account which I cant move at present for many reasons I'm still working on so I feel the stress on that one!

Know you'll be kareokeing (is that a word) and boogying but is there any way you can get away for a weekend to decompress and relax not to be pushed out just to regroup?

Edz

Last edited by edz; 12/10/14 11:52 AM.

M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
W coming closer, talking 4/2015
Piecing 5/2015
Moving in again 6/2015
edz #2515803 12/10/14 12:27 PM
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Edz,

It's a great suggestion to get away, Paris was a great help to Jim I recall; regrettably unworkable as I have too many work commitments and this tooth thing is getting in the way. I may need dental care at short notice, which means not straying too far. I note that auto text changed away to wayward probably because I use the latter more in my writing, but that isn't what I mean. I have absolutely no intention of being wayward!

As soon as I can I will do so and it could even be a mid week break taking laptop and printer with me. Sadly it's my busy season.

But I will add this to my plan thank you.

The finance thing is tough but I am resolved to open a 7 day savings account linked to the current account and transfer excess cash to it. I believe there can be a tie to notify both parties by text if there is a notice of withdrawal. I am not sure what further hurdles that I can create at this stage. If I find any I will let you know.
Regards

Vanilla


Last edited by Vanilla; 12/10/14 12:29 PM.

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Like everyone else here my thread is getting close to closing.

I love the cool thing where the link says thread1, rather than "http:///////string/123456 vanilla" quote. HP does that in his threads. I reallywant to know how to do this cool thing. Any one got the trick? I tried using quote to cut and paste but ended up with gobbledygook instead which I had to notify to have removed.

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/10/14 12:36 PM.

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Hi Vanilla

Standing orders dont create that message - at least not that Im aware of. Be careful they can be cancelled quickly by anyone with ebanking access though and check before you take my word for anything as I hid from the bank account for many years smile

No mini break hotels just up the road you can drive to and enjoy a spa or similar then? I know there are 3 near me so may be worth checking unless you are concerned about needing to be driven of course which (after my dental treatment knocked me recurringly for six for 4 months) I know all about to well!

Take it easy mate, you're doing brilliantly and helping a lot of us too!

Edz


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
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With the link when you click the link box (world with the 8 on its side) I think it asks two questions, one is the link address the other is the title you'd like I believe.

e.g.

My Linky Title

Last edited by edz; 12/10/14 12:37 PM.

M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
W coming closer, talking 4/2015
Piecing 5/2015
Moving in again 6/2015
edz #2515809 12/10/14 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: edz
With the link when you click the link box (world with the 8 on its side) I think it asks two questions, one is the link address the other is the title you'd like I believe.

e.g.

My Linky Title


Thanks, once I get this, the worlds my oyster. cool cool


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I am sure this is other than a standing order but by bank auto transfer to the deposit account, there can be a floor setting, so a warning if the level falls below say 500. We do this with trust accounts all the time.

Then in the deposit account you can set a text verification as the cash takes 7 days to transfer, then notification gives warning. It's a barrier.

I have all my accounts sending me a text balance daily. It's a service that is already in my charges so I use it. Text arrives mid morning so I can action.

Hope that helps
Vanilla


Last edited by Vanilla; 12/10/14 12:48 PM.

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You are a lot more organised than me on this Vanilla so I certainly bow to your knowledge on it smile

I may look into the messaging you mention though as at the moment I find out she's been in the account when I run through the statement at the weekend and have to have a strong coffee when the balance is adrift!


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
W coming closer, talking 4/2015
Piecing 5/2015
Moving in again 6/2015
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Ships that pass in the night.

I am going out as H is coming in. The tumble drier is repaired and H can safely wash his bed sheets before they walk there themselves.

He has not said one word about me disappearing overnight. He went to golf this morning and was happy. He is looking very old and his beard is patchy, I thinktherewas a hangover. I haven't told him I am GAL tonight. Gf H is cooking cauliflower cheese with bacon which is one of my fav counts 3 pts Edz.

Vanilla


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Originally Posted By: Vanilla
Edz, let's have a bit of a logic fun thing with this, I am sure others will chip in.

I don't know how to do tables in this and last attempt transferring a word table was very odd result.

So, why don't we set some guidelines?

Let's say we mark each GAL activity from 1 to 5
Set a target of ??.. 20 pts per week
Add 10 pts each holiday week ??

Ok so GAL points
Swimming, running, hiking, meals, sauna, alone one hour 1 pt (counts as out of house)
Add kids extra pt per child
Add spouse (if not in piecing) take off a point
tv at home nul points
TV at mates plus 1 pt

Club activity, sports, games, sauna, dance, sing, weight watchers, GAanon wassail 2 pts
Competition sport including prep 3 pts
Shopping, visiting muesem culture trip out, course with others non work 3 pts
Dancing party, full on evening with meal, cinema, dinner party 4 pts

Weekend break with chums full on 5 pts for each day

Other stuff
On line gaming with cohorts but not gambling 3 pts but deduct 1 pt for every hour over 8
Coffee with chum 1pt
This site?

That's my starter bid lets get this going like a Mexican Wave

Wassail link (we rots really are eccentric when the world isn't watching)

http://youtu.be/JTazCqcD7Ls

http://youtu.be/lYl-H_kXbdQ
Normally involves nog

Vanilla

Score card
Wed work all day 1 pt meal, cinema and coffee with two friends 3 pts
Thurs work all day but at home toothache nul pts gam anon and meal out 3 pts
Friday work all day but at home nul Long call with friend abroad 2 pts coffee with visitor 1 pt
sat work all day nul pts meal with friend 3 pts
Sun gym 2 classes 4 pts sauna and meal with neophyte 4 pts
Monday work all day 1 pt GAanon 12 steps 3 pts
Tuesday Xmas lunch 4 pts less 1 as H there gam anon 3 pts overnight stay with friend 1 pt
Grand total 32 pts target 30 20 plus Xmas 10
Van

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/10/14 07:22 PM.

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Hi Vanillia. So sorry you are having such a hard time. You are fantastic at giving advice and show such caring to others you H must be mad to treat you any way other than as the lady you obviously are.

I have no wise words other than detach. Detach. Oh and detach.

You have no control over H or his actions, look after you and keep on DBing

I look at a life without W and knowing there are lady's like yourself out there gives me great hope.

Keep strong and please know you are a very positive person who deserves much better. Take care. Rd

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Sorry for H's behavior. Sounds like you handled it pretty well. You are such a wonderful example! I appreciate it. smile


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