Devastated Husband; Need Advice

[Mozza]

To me it's clear cut: she left you, you stop supporting her financially.

[HPoirot]

Stop supporting her financially. Not only b/c it's the right thing to do, but she will lose respect for you as a potential H if you keep paying for her A and she's living with OM. If she can't afford something... it's her problem to fix.

[TLEE86]

Mozza, HP, thanks for your replies. I agree with you both. After speaking with my DB coach this morning, I was advised to basically go about it in a way where I get my W to say those things but I steer the conversation in that direction, so I don't come off controlling/even more as the bad guy.

I see the conversation going like this, if she decides that she's not going to her internship in JAN

W: I'm not going to the internship, etc etc etc
Me: Do you think you will be moving out soon?
W: I'm not sure, I'm stressed from work, not really sure if I want to deal with the stress of finding my own place etc etc
Me: Where do you see this going financially for us?
W: I'm not sure…(or some other wavering reply)
Me: What do you think is fair in this situation because we agreed that the money I'm giving you was supposed to be to help you get your own place so you can be independent and get on your feet?
W:------------
Me: I don't see me being able to continue supporting you financially as long as you continue to stay at OM's apartment.

Thoughts? I know its not as…harsh, as simply saying "I'm cutting you off" but I'm trying to let her draw the line in the sand and I simply steer her that way…

On another note, DB coach advised me to "match" my W in how much she contacts me and don't let her always be the first one to initiate because she says she may be waiting for you to reach out to her every now and then. As long as we are remaining friendly, there's no reason not to try initiating texts with her. We will see how it goes…it's hard not to think that the reason W isn't calling or texting as much this past week because her R with OM is escalating…

Also attempting to see W before I start making my drive for Texas…DB coach recommended I use an excuse like "Hey do you need me to bring you X, Y, Z because the weathers getting colder…" Trying to keep PMA about this but preparing myself for it not to happen. It's really difficult to not be in the same state, much less the same city as W because it puts so much pressure on the 1 day of seeing her..instead of "hey lets grab lunch or lets go walk the dogs" it comes off more…"i have 3 days off, let me buy a plane ticket to go see you, make sure you have those same days off…"

Any ideas or previous experience of how to make this work better when you're not even in the same state, please share! Otherwise, its just texts and periodic phone calls...

[Calibri]

If I left my H I wouldn't expect financial support. But that's just me.

I would change your stance of "i don't see me being able to support you......." to "I will not help you financially while you continue to stay at OM apartment." Know what you told me about enabling my H? I'm back over here reminding you as well. :-)

A vet might have better thoughts.

I would match contact. And try reaching out -- if you haven't done that in the past -- see if it works. Sometimes you have to try different methods before you find ones that work.

If you try to see W before you leave, be prepared for her to reject it. You don't want to come off as controlling or trying to fix the situation.

Hang in there -- and good luck with your move. Somedays I wish I could move. So many memories in our house --- H proposed to me on our front porch. I feel like I'm haunted somedays.

[TLEE86]

Hey Calibri, always nice to hear from you-thanks for your insight. You're right in your wording of not supporting her financially anymore. I was thinking about that when I wrote it, and it sounds weak. Your line is much stronger so I'm going to go with that.

Quite honestly…I'm not even sure what to do anymore. I want to have this conversation with W soon, and I know we'll have it before Christmas. I am tired of enabling her A with OM. Pretty sure she will end up telling me she's not going to this internship in JAN and she is making no efforts to find her own place. I will not fund their every adventure together…and that includes her truck payment. My name is still on it so I have to pay for it, but why would I continue to pay for her truck if she's deliberately choosing to stay at OM apartment?

She will most definitely gripe and moan about things when we have this talk, and she may very well threaten to file papers for D. Not paying for anything means she won't even have a car to go to work. But I won't enable her.

My W needs to be hit with a 2x4 (as many WAS do) and this is probably the only way…I never asked her to leave. She came up with this decision while I was gone, I wasn't even home to talk about it. She definitely needs a reality check that…when you leave your H, you don't get everything you had before plus OM in your life.

As far as contact with W…I am kind of doubting DB coach, though I probably shouldn't. Cant remember if it was you Calibri or someone else that wrote it but…"how hard is it to answer the damn text." W and I were chatting over text today, and then she stops responding and hasn't said anything for hours. I am getting pretty annoyed with this whole one way street thing where she gets to do whatever she wants to do, talks to me whenever she feels like answering, and then goes back to OM's apartment.

It's time to set some boundaries, and I'm glad I reached one with the financial help, probably should have done that one a long time ago. I don't know how to set up a boundary as far as contact…DB coach says going dark is not a good idea for me because W is very friendly and seems to want contact. But she does this only on her terms. I don't know how to stop letting her run all over me with "I'll talk to you when I want, for as long as I want, and you're just going to have to deal with it." Selectively responding to her messages is an option, but how does that send any message to her that I'm tired of this being a one-way street?

Thoughts?

[Calibri]

TLEE-

Gonna do this bullet point style tonight, cause that's how I roll.

-Are you sure there's an A going on with the person she's staying with. How does she know this person, especially if she's at at home a lot.

-Yes, it was me that uttered the "how hard is it to respond to a damn text." Had another one of those moments tonight. When H and I are texting, when he's not being Mr. Grumpypants, I try to end the conversation first, so that I'm not left hanging in the wind waiting for a conversation that may never return. Perhaps you could try it, say 30 minutes into the conversation wrap it up, "I have an appointment, it's been great chatting with you, let me know how school/work/the book you're reading ends." I wouldn't go against the DB. Coach. Your W has cited lack of contact for part of this whole thing. Don't go dark.

-it sounds like you're getting irritated, is it because you can't fix the situation or control it? . (I'm not saying that to be rude, just an observation.) If so, what could you do to work on this?

- what are you doing to GAL. How's the PMA going?

[TLEE86]

I know there is an EA. I do not believe it has turned into a PA. This person has been a best friend type person to her since before I knew her, she met him in high school. But I know he's always liked her. When she met me, her contact with him almost stopped completely. When I was in Afghanistan, I asked her not to talk to him at all because I didn't like the idea of late night conversations when I'm off in the middle of nowhere and she had no issues with that. When I was gone this second time, because it was for only a few months, I didn't ask her that. In her desperation and loneliness with zero contact with me, she turned to him for emotional support and when she couldn't sleep at 2am most nights despite all the ambien and nyquil she was taking…she called him, and he was the only person that she leaned on while I was gone. We (me and this guy) have never got along, and I know that he was not really doing much if anything to say, hey he's only gone for a few months, you can get through this etc etc. Instead, he came up with the brilliant idea that she could stay at his place if she left me. Yes, I am angry, yes I am bitter but no I am not placing blame on him. I know and have identified the number of things I could have done better in our M to make it strong enough to where we could survive these things. Quite honestly, we underestimated how 3 months of NC would affect us, I mean we did 1 year while I was in Afghanistan so how hard is 3 months?

Thank you for your insight into the texting…I will definitely try and do that. It is highly annoying when you are left waiting for a conversation that may never return, or return the next day. The only issue with that is I never know when she's suddenly gonna stop talking for a while. Sometimes its only been 10minutes of chatting/texting and then I don't hear from her all of a sudden. But…I can't control that, i can only try and implement your idea so we'll see how it goes.

It's taking a lot to not ask my W if every things ok…things have been off for the past week and a half, almost her own version of a 180. But thats not really DB…

I am extremely irritated. Its not so much I can't fix or control the situation, more because she's not doing her part. There's no reflecting on anything, trying to actually be independent and get on her own feet, just…I'm going to go and do whatever I want. It's entirely selfish. I know, I know…that's by definition a WAW, in my case, possibly wayward as well. But it's frustrating to see her do nothing to help herself and isn't looking at the big picture as far as improving her own life…basically, playing the victim AGAIN. As far as working on this, the only thing I can do is stop playing the role of rescuer.

GAL and PMA..comes and goes. Right now, the movers are here and its pretty draining watching them pack up our stuff. She still has 80% of her things here. Focus right now is really just get the house packed and ready to go so that I can start my drive tomorrow. Once I get to Texas is when I'll start doing some of the things I want to do (hunting, riding horses etc).

Insights? Thoughts? Anything I can be doing better?

[TLEE86]

ANNND part 2…again back on the lines of communicating with the W. As I've said, DB coach advised me to "match her" in initiating conversation because she feels like WAW may be waiting for an invitation from me, and that as long as I don't overdo it and start to show pursuing/neediness, I am ok to do that. Buuttttt my gut is telling me that WAW doesn't want that. She doesn't seem to be waiting for an invitation, she just seems to be pulling back. Not necessarily for a bad reason, but I know that despite how happy she seems or acts, she is stressed…about work, her long hours, whether or not she's going to this internship in Jan, going back to school, and of course the uncertainty of me and her, not to mention whatever is going on between her and roommate/OM…

I don't want to doubt DB coach, because she is the expert so I will try her idea. But deep down I believe my W is subtly asking for space for whatever reason and is naturally pulling back. Not for anything I may or may not have done, my actions have been consistent for a while now. But because of her own battles/emotions she's dealing with. Guess I'll try DB coach idea for the week and it is counter-intuitive to what I am feeling, but I'm the one that interacts with W and I just don't get the feeling of she wants more contact.

[Calibri]

I am extremely irritated. Its not so much I can't fix or control the situation, more because she's not doing her part. There's no reflecting on anything, trying to actually be independent and get on her own feet, just…I'm going to go and do whatever I want. It's entirely selfish. I know, I know…that's by definition a WAW, in my case, possibly wayward as well. But it's frustrating to see her do nothing to help herself and isn't looking at the big picture as far as improving her own life…basically, playing the victim AGAIN. As far as working on this, the only thing I can do is stop playing the role of rescuer.

How is she not doing her part? What does doing her part look like? What do you want her to be doing, working on the M or herself? I'm not defending your W, I'm just reflecting on some things in my life. My IC 2x4'd me a few weeks ago about my H. I basically had the same complaint that you did. "Why isn't he working on himself, why isn't he doing this, why wouldn't he just pull himself up by the bootstraps and do whatever he needs to be doing to be a functional adult?" She asked me how I didn't know he wasn't doing the best that he could in his situation? That just because it didn't match MY expectation on how HE should be handling HIS life, didn't mean he wasn't doing the work. It may not be apparent to me (hell, it may not even exist) - but the thing is, right now, he doesn't have to prove anything to me - because he's on his own journey. He needs to prove it to himself. My time may or may not come.

Look, I understand about selfish -- my H left me in the middle of a packed up house, after I backed out of buying my childhood dream home for him. I was left to unpack a house, take care of our animals, take care of the fallout, etc. While he got/gets to sit in a hotel room and "find himself". And you know what he said to me? "I have to be selfish right now -- because I've put everyone, including you, ahead of my needs my entire life. To the point where I don't know who I am. So it's time for me to figure out me."

And while I don't agree with the method -- if the space is what he needs, then he gets it.

So, for what it's worth -- that's my input.

Re: communicating -- try what the DB coach said and monitor for results. And if you know she's stressed, maybe take a supportive stance. "I know you must be busy with school and long hours, I imagine that must be very stressful. Hope you're having a good day/will have a restful weekend" <-----Keep in mind I'm not a vet, and I have my own communication issues with my WAH.

[TLEE86]

Ok Ok Ok, point taken. Thank you for that.

That just because it didn't match MY expectation on how HE should be handling HIS life, didn't mean he wasn't doing the work. It may not be apparent to me (hell, it may not even exist) - but the thing is, right now, he doesn't have to prove anything to me - because he's on his own journey. He needs to prove it to himself. My time may or may not come.

This is a great point. Ironically one of my 180s was to not be so critical and be more empathetic instead of arrogant/controlling. And this just shows that I still need to work on myself. You're right, this is exactly how I was thinking..that how she is doing things is not what I would have done, or the route that I would have taken, but that's what got me to this point…I tried to control and plan everything and was critical when it wasn't my way. She is in complete control of her life and because its not how I would do it, doesn't mean its wrong. It's her life and she is set to prove it to herself.

Interesting enough, just to hammer home a point about moving forward without WAW that is a common theme here, I told my WAW that the movers were here today.

Me: "ANNND the movers are here. Let the fun begin!"
W: (8hours later…): "Sorry if I don't talk sometimes, I have moments that hit me like a brick wall that make me crumble sometimes and just havent figured out how to deal with it yet"
Me: It's ok I understand. I know you are stressed.
W: (on her online blog): "I hate this feeling I get, of pain and sadness. I know I'm still hurt, I'm scared, I wonder if I'm able, I hate what happened and whats become and how it all played out. I get so emotional I get sick to my stomach and then I put my head back down and wake up and do it all over again. Work, sleep, repeat. I have to make it on my own. But, I'm so sorry."

I didn't respond. There's nothing to say. She rarely says/posts things like this, if ever, but by tomorrow morning she will probably be rude and disrespectful again. All this tells me is, keep doing what I am doing, continue to work on me because I'm not where I should be yet, and let time run its course.