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Love14, listen to the vets on this forum. I am In a very similar situation with my W. SHe has an EA going on with an OM who fortunately does not live here. She's basically questioning everything about our marriage, says she no longer feels attraction or connection to me, and is basically wondering if her place in life is with me or not. Fortunately she lives with me still. I invite you to check out my thread.

You need to let go of the idea that you can directly control your wife's thoughts, actions or choices. You can only influence her decisions by working on you. Make yourself the best man you know how to be, but don't look around to see if she notices. She's watching you, even when you don't think she is. The changes you make must be for you, or she will see them as shallow and manipulative. Concentrate on being a strong, positive , masculine presence with her. She will notice, but will sure as hell not praise you for it.

This will take a very long time. You will dig up new reserves of patience as you move through this. Remember that she is lost, hurt and scared as well. She will be cruel and cold to you at times. Plan on it. Don't hang on everything she says or does, good or bad. It will drive you crazy..

This forum has been an absolute godsend to me. Keep posting! It's the best therapy I've had so far.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

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It's so much easier said that done, but I totally agree. I'm staying away and acting "as if". Showing her I'm happy and standing tall etc...I dont believe there is another man, or a emotional affair, I sure hope not but after all the snooping I have done there hasn't been 1 positive lead, which in very glad about.

But jeez this is hard, staying with a family member and keep thinking about Her every single day, I do believe she has started to see a councilor, which I think is a great thing, it's the first sign of a positive move she has done in the last few months. Hopefully it goes good as she can let go of some of the past resentment and hurt. Time will tell...

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Hello love14. I'm so sorry you are here. I only have one piece of advice... it helps to prepare yourself for an OM to appear sooner or later. It could break you if you're not ready. You're first thought with your positive snooping result will be to think the best of your W and not even conceive that she would go somewhere else to get her needs met. She's acting cold in part because she doesn't want to hurt you... doesn't want to give you any false hope. She will lie to you and hide an OM for the same reason and rationalize her actions as protecting you (poor baby in her mind) from her actions. In my case, I felt my W's contact was a long distance EA which was hard to deal with but bearable. When my snooping showed that they were in fact meeting and she had further lied to me after I confronted her... the happiness in her emails to OM tore me to shreds. I nearly derailed the whole thing right there. I'm still fighting to recover. It is terrible... just be prepared. You cannot show that pain to your W if an OM appears. She will feel pity for you which will diminish you in her eyes. Let's stay strong.

Last edited by HPoirot; 11/22/14 07:53 PM.

Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
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Time will tell is the phrase I use all the time. She will settle down eventually, either for or against the marriage. This has been hands-down the hardest experience of my life. The detaching is vital. You cannot ride her roller coaster with her, so don't try. She needs to see you as a rock. Loving but strong.
The detaching is really for you to retain your sanity as you move through this.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

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HPoirot, I would be crushed if there was another man. I don't even want to think of it let alone prepare myself. The thought has come to mind but when it does, my heart races and I get sick to my stomach. I checked text messages, social media, tracking etc...nothing yielded even the slightest form of affair, and believe me I'm suspicious (especially now being in the situation I am). But I wholeheartetly believe she is a wonderful person and doing something like that is very unlikely. I'm holding on to that faith and trust, it's all I have right now.

It's just so extremely hard not knowing what she is going to do, file or not file for divorce? She asked for time, I didn't do good by giving her enough time and kept pushing and pushing, finally I stopped pursuing her. I'm hoping and praying she continues to see the counceler and hoping for a phone call or text from her, just anything to try and move forward with her. It's such an emotional roller coaster ride it has affected everything in my life. I need to start doing things by myself and being happy no matter what happens! I'm mad one day, sad the other day, and neutral the 3rd day, then it goes back around just like a circle.

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Originally Posted By: love14
But I wholeheartetly believe she is a wonderful person and doing something like that is very unlikely. I'm holding on to that faith and trust, it's all I have right now.


That, right there, is your kryptonite love14. I'm telling you... if she is talking divorce yours will not be a short, painless process. She will be tempted to test other options. That is the point of all of this and she won't wait. B/c you wholeheartedly believe she is a wonderful person, you would have never thought she would treat you the way she treats you now, right? My W has never said divorce and I've been through the worst pain of my life ever. You must prepare for the worst and have a plan of how you will act if it happens. Stop hoping and praying and act to improve and strengthen yourself. She will only consider you if all she see's is your strength from now on no matter what she does. She's not thinking of your best interests now. I'm serious. Good luck.

Last edited by HPoirot; 11/22/14 09:52 PM.

Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
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Originally Posted By: love14

5 months ago she dropped the bomb on me. She told me that she wants to leave, she can no longer go on like this, she loves me but she is not in love with me anymore.


Most typically when a woman says she loves you but she's not in love with you it's because she has a point of comparison.... she's "in love" with someone else.

Since she came to you first she likely covered her tracks and took the affair far underground especially if the OM is married and especially while she sorts things out with you. You finding out will/could ruin EVERYTHING and make the eventual divorce HER fault versus YOUR fault (because in her mind...her seeking attention and having the affair in the first place is YOUR fault).

I know detaching doesn't include spying but it my situation I absolutely needed to know the facts before I could address any problems. In other words, if there is a fox in your henhouse what good is it doing a self inventory to determine why your chickens aren't laying eggs??? Discover the fox and then address that problem first.

Her upsettedness about not trusting her is a tip off. Those with nothing to hide don't tend to hide anything. If she were truly behaving on the up and up she'd welcome the opportunity to show you that your fears of her cheating were unfounded and it truly is a marital issue of neglect versus being offended.

Her need for a separation is another tip off. Space is the wayward code word for I don't like you interfering with my affair or I'm scared you are going to catch me and with you out of the house I can focus more attention on my affair partner.

Sorry. It's just the most likely scenario in my opinion.


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Have you really heard her? Stop focusing on getting her back and start thinking about what she told you.

She has told you the problem right here. But have you really heard her?

Quote:
Years of doing that has caused resentment in her heart towards me, and she feels that her dreams are never met, she feels that we can never sit down and talk about things together, make decisions as adults, her own words ( i always felt like in the back of the bus). She told me she didn't want to be the pilot, but she wants to be the co-pilot.


You really need to "get this"!


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: love14
HPoirot, I would be crushed if there was another man. I don't even want to think of it let alone prepare myself. The thought has come to mind but when it does, my heart races and I get sick to my stomach. I checked text messages, social media, tracking etc...nothing yielded even the slightest form of affair, and believe me I'm suspicious (especially now being in the situation I am). But I wholeheartetly believe she is a wonderful person and doing something like that is very unlikely. I'm holding on to that faith and trust, it's all I have right now.

Have you read the DB or Div Remedy book(s)? They advise AGAINST SNOOPING and for many good reasons. So stop making yourself nuts and realize that the more you spend your energy and time wondering what she's up to (and snooping which shows so much fear on your end),

and work on yourself. What are your 180s? Do you know what I'm talking about? You will when you read the books. You MUST read them cover to cover. They form the basis of the underlying philosophy here and you cannot skim them or "skip to the good EASY part"....this is the first part of the "Work" you must do to save your marriage.

you say you love her. Have you read the books? Please do so. And CHOOSE an approach, whether it is Div Busting or some other one, and then stick to it for long enough to monitor for results. If you combine approaches that actually conflict, you are doing a disservice to both approaches, and yourself b/c you will LESSEN the chances of success by hedging your bets and not really committing to any one approach.

And that might be a pattern for your life as well....


It's just so extremely hard not knowing what she is going to do, file or not file for divorce?



We know. The biggest regret I have is that I spent a year of my life wondering about someone I had zero control over INSTEAD of creating a better more fulfilling life for MYSELF and my kids.

The sooner you do that, the sooner things will evolve well. Stop obsessing about HER and start working on You.



She asked for time, I didn't do good by giving her enough time and kept pushing and pushing, finally I stopped pursuing her.


Obsessing and snooping is NOT giving her space or time. You MUST stop that and begin to work on yourself while you have the gift of time.

Please hear us!



I'm hoping and praying she continues to see the counceler and hoping for a phone call or text from her, just anything to try and move forward with her.

Are You seeing a counselor? How is THAT going?

Again, when you begin to obsess about HER, get a mirror out and look at the only person you can change or control or affect...YOU.

Seriously, you need to get this asap.


It's such an emotional roller coaster ride it has affected everything in my life.


How do you think you can get OFF the roller coaster? How can you stop it from affecting everything in your life?

By working on yourself so you know you are Doing SOMETHING, AND, by Getting A Life (aka "GAL").

You must GAL to Detach and you must detach to get healthy enough to work on yourself. So if and when she looks your way, she loves what/who she sees.

What were you like when you were first married? What were you like when she fell in love with you? What would SHE SAY are the issues for her in the marriage?

And what, of those, do you think have some validity and are worth working on in you?

Become a man only a fool would leave. What does that look like to you?




I need to start doing things by myself and being happy no matter what happens!

Bingo! Instead of saying you "need to start", just do it. Today. What can you sign up for this week? Want to volunteer for the Thanksgiving dinner at the shelter? (I'm just spitballing but it sure beats being alone.)

By working on yourself and becoming the best man you can become, you insure a better life for yourself, no matter what she does.

That's VERY worthwhile. Also, remember this:

NO Walk Away Spouse returns to a marriage they left

....Unless-

they believe the marriage can be better/different than before.


It's your job to show her that^^^ --not with words or promises, but w/actions.

So, how are YOU demonstrating that?



I'm mad one day, sad the other day, and neutral the 3rd day, then it goes back around just like a circle.


I understand. Been there, done that. But You really can get OFF the roller coaster and change the circle into a line of growth for you. (Only YOU can get yourself off the roller coaster.)

If you make your happiness dependent on her, (which is unfair and unhealthy)

you might begin to see the co-dependency that is NOT healthy for a marriage. Change that dynamic.

No more spiralling downward, but get the "graph" to go UPWARDS and onward...as you want.

Good luck, keep posting.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Originally Posted By: HPoirot
Hello love14. I'm so sorry you are here. I only have one piece of advice... it helps to prepare yourself for an OM to appear sooner or later. It could break you if you're not ready.

Sorry but I so strongly disagree strongly with this^^. (And so does the DB philosophy, btw). Since it may not even be true, how on earth would this help him? He'd be borrowing trouble that may not exist and might even serve to push her into the arms of OM. Sometimes we behave and operate in fear and we bring about the very things we most fear.

Like when a jealous possessive boyfriend of mine, whom I really cared for, constantly accused me of cheating "or wanting to" (How do I defend against that? What can I "prove"??). Eventually I began to think he was really needy and paranoid and yes, other men began to look a lot safer and more fun than he was. So I broke up with him b/c I wanted to go out with someone else!

I am fairly certain that I'd have stuck it out with my first bf (well, for junior year anyhow) if he'd just backed off and showed some self confidence in himself (attractive!!) and trust for me (a welcome feeling). He really did, in effect, shove me into the arms of OM/new boyfriend. Probably a year before nature would have parted us anyhow.

Also the distrust this reflects can often be a projection of OUR OWN beliefs b/c we know WE wanted to cheat or we did and so we assume or project onto others our own foibles AND OR,

this also involves a ton of mind reading (negatively programmed to boot!). Mind reading, especially negatively, is a bad idea and goes against DBing and isn't reflecting a healthy belief system. IT's believing the worst about someone whom you have vowed to cherish...

til your trust is proved to be misplaced, why undermine it anymore than you already have? So far what has your snooping accomplished? You have found nothing and no evidence of an A and yet you still hunt for it!

DING DING!! ALARMS BLARING!!!!

What's that tell you? If my h snooped on me NOW, or had in the past, I probably would assume he had cheated or wanted to. (Why else would he be so suspicious of ME?)

As for the comments below, I'm going to cross thru the mind reading and the negative projections so we can better assess what you need to focus on...


You're first thought with your positive snooping result will be to think the best of your W and not even conceive that she would go somewhere else to get her needs met. She's acting cold in part because she doesn't want to hurt you... doesn't want to give you any false hope. She will lie to you and hide an OM for the same reason and rationalize her actions as protecting you (poor baby in her mind) from her actions. In my case, I felt my W's contact was a long distance EA which was hard to deal with but bearable. When my snooping showed that they were in fact meeting and she had further lied to me after I confronted her... the happiness in her emails to OM tore me to shreds. I nearly derailed the whole thing right there. I'm still fighting to recover. It is terrible.

HP,

Given all this^^, and your situation, it's odd for you to give him advice that was so destructive in your own marriage.

But come to think of it, do you think the fact that you had an A earlier on in the marriage, was possibly a reason you were so suspicious of HER having one? However it is also against DB's approach and for good reason.


.. just be prepared. You cannot show that pain to your W if an OM appears. She will feel pity for you which will diminish you in her eyes. Let's stay strong.


Wow, those^^ are more reasons NOT to spy..."Staying/looking strong" is a reason NOT to snoop, In my opinion.

In fact, for ME, there is only one valid reason to snoop.

--If you knew in your heart of hearts that no matter how badly you treated your wife or neglected her, no matter what your own role in any possible affair had been,

if you KNEW w/100% certainty that you'd end the marriage b/c you could not get past an affair on her end - regardless of any circumstances, influences, etc....

then I say if things are weird between you two, go ahead and snoop and if you find something, file for divorce. That's the end of that.

But IF you do NOT know that it would be an absolute for sure deal breaker, then why on God's green earth would you keep snooping? What GOOD does it do you?

Hey, others are free to have their own opinions of course. But I believe there are sound reasons that MWD opposes it, and so do I. It definitely turns most spouses off and if I were innocent of cheating and my h spied on me and snooped, that could well end the marriage.

It's just too paranoid and distrusting and it would make me think HE had cheated or wanted to & was projecting that onto me.

Anyhow, please keep posting. This site is a Godsend, as are the DB coaches. Can you hire one? I hired one and ended up having 15 (fifteen) or more sessions with her. Thank GOD!

Yes yes, DB coaching sessions can be pricey. (The packages save you some $$)

BUT DB coaching sessions 1) are Not more expensive than the MC we had, since he and several others were not a covered benefit for us anyway,

AND

2) it's cheaper than divorce.

IN conclusion, yes There is hope.

You can help yourself most by working on yourself. Regardless of what she plans/feels or is doing (and believe me, that will change often so don't bank on yesterdays' comments being true tomorrow...)

you'll be better off by changing the parts of yourself that most need changing. AND that means no matter what her plans are, your course of action is the same.

Become a man only a fool would leave. And learn to turn your pain/anger over to God, so you can walk in peace and get some sleep. Stay the course, don't veer off your path...


Make sense?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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