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Hello all. I found this website a few days ago and have been browsing some of the materials and forums. I think it would help me a lot to share my story and get some experience from some of the other people here.

To begin, I am a young man (22). I have been married to my W (21) for <1 year. We have an 18 m/o son together. We have been together for 6 years, through high school, save for a breakup a few years ago that lasted about 6 months with almost no contact. You know the old saying about letting something go if you love it? I did it. We had a tough relationship growing up, but have always loved each other and stuck by each other. After she was hospitalized for nearly 2 months, she felt that she wanted to experience life without me. I took it hard at the time. I begged, I pleaded, I negotiated. It simply drove her away.

I made peace with that failure in my life. I knew that, along with her needing to experience life, that I had not treated her very well. I was possessive and jealous. I understood why she had left even if I did not want to admit it to myself. I was depressed for a long time, but was living with a roommate so I had someone to talk to. Eventually, I started to think about her less and less. After what seemed like a long time alone, I finally started to move on with my life. I was finishing my Associates degree and working nights to get through life. She called me one night (approximately 6 months after) during one of my shifts and asked to get breakfast together. She told me that she had missed me very much during this time and I explained I had missed her as well. We decided to reconcile. I felt at the time that she was sincere about missing me, and not simply coming back to me out of loneliness. Or maybe I had just convinced myself. I'm not sure I will ever know.

Not long after reconciling, she was pregnant. Before someone asks - I am 100% sure that the baby was mine. I think that its fair to say that this happened too quickly, but I was in love and I had my girl back. The baby is something I will never regret. Six months later, I proposed to her and she agreed. My son was born in May of 2013. My wife and I were married in March of this year.

We were living in an apartment together at the time and, although we would still bicker, the fighting had largely subsided. I was happy at the time, and I do believe that she was as well. We fell into some problems with our living situation. Out of necessity, we moved into the basement of a family member's home. Neither of us liked the situation, but it was only supposed to be temporary. We appreciated saving money and my family's generosity, but it can be very tough to live with your family in a space that is not your own. I should also point out that I was going to school full time and she was working. This was an arrangement that I didn't like, but she wanted me to focus on school. I quit the best job I ever had (night shift) when she was returning to work after her maternity leave. I had another part time job while she worked full time and I stayed with the baby during the week. Before we moved in with my family, she encouraged me to leave my part time job because she saw that I hated it, I was about to start school again, and it helped a lot in regards to having someone to watch my son while she worked her 9-5. When we moved in with my family, the fighting began again.

I left too often. I would spend time with my friends at night. We don't go out and party or anything, mainly just watch TV and play games and that sort of thing. Before, when we were living on our own, I was always at home. I had people over from time to time, but didn't feel comfortable having guests in our temporary living space, so I left. This made her feel lonely. I also was questioning my own manhood (living under a family member's roof, no job, in the nurturing role) and had started to grow jealous and possessive again. That said, I do have reason to believe that someone else is in the picture.

She left. She took my son, packed up all of her things, and left. She is staying with her family currently. Once again, I begged at first. And pleaded. And nothing helped. In my search for answers, I discovered this site. I began reading through the forums. I discovered the 37 rules, many of which I see a lot of wisdom in. I just feel it may be too little, too late.

I have my strong days and my weak days. It is tough because we still see each other most every day (I am still the one that watches my son primarily through the week). I have begun to see a counselor for 2 reasons: 1) I needed someone to talk to besides my family, who love me and comfort me, but I know are just really hoping for the best. 2) I want to show my wife that I am making an active effort to change. If she does come back (I do not think she will), then I want to improve myself, my communication skills, and learn to deal with things better. On my strong days, I do not call or pursue in any way. I pick up my son politely, I say goodbye first, and I do so with a smile. On my weak days, I wake up after terrible dreams. I call her in the morning. This has happened twice in the five or so days that she has been gone. Because of our son, I am unable to go completely dark.

I know that none of you can help solve my relationship problems or get my wife back. But it is therapeutic to discuss my situation with those that have gone through something similar. I am open to any and all advice. Again, I know I am young. Please do not hold that against me.

-lonelyship


Me 23, Her 21
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I am glad to see that you have been reading Divorce Busting information and speaking to a counselor. Now, I urge you to speak to a Divorce Busting Coach. Our coaches know exactly how to guide you through this very hard separation. We also know what you need to say and do differently to get your marriage back on track and save your family. Call me today to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004


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You will not be judged here on your age. In fact, it sounds like you've got much of it figured out as to what caused your M to fail.

First off, you need to get the DB or DR books right away. They will help you to understand many of the concepts that are discussed here.

Next, can you detail exactly what issues she had with you? What did the two of you fight about? What makes you think there's someone else?


M-43 W-40
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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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lnlyshp Offline OP
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I plan to purchase the materials once I have a better idea of how the money situation is looking.

I think many of her issues with marriage included:
- Me being overbearing
- loneliness
- feeling unappreciated
- my frequent leaving at night
- Emotional distance (this is a big one I think)

One thing that I got angry over was her relationship with a male coworker. I felt that their relationship went beyond the scope of a professional one, and I told her this made me uncomfortable. The cause of the big fight was my discovering a text he had sent her and subsequently realizing that she had deleted the conversation beforehand. The text in and of itself was not anything bad, I think it simply said "about?", but I was very angry that this was going and that she had deleted the previous messages to hide them from me. I asked her to choose between her friendship and her marriage (something I should NOT have done) and she explained that maybe we shouldn't be together if I won't allow her to have friends

While I know I acted rashly in this situation, I still feel that it was very disrespectful on her part to try and hide it from me. I am afraid that she is having an affair, and unsure if I would be willing to reconcile if she is.

That said, I still do not know and realize I may be jumping to conclusions.


Me 23, Her 21
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Rough couple of days. Having trouble sleeping through the night. Got too drunk last night. I'm not a big drinker, but for some reason I thought it would help. It did not. I feel miserable this morning (emotionally, not physically). I'm going to pick up my son today. With the holidays coming up, she asked if it was okay if she took him out of town to see her sister for a few days. I've never been away from him for more than a day. It is going to be tough to get through and I will miss him a great deal.

Had a meeting with her yesterday during which she told me in no uncertain terms which way she is leaning (towards a divorce, although she did not say the word). She said that if I asked her right now, I would not like the answer. I encouraged her to keep thinking on things. The talk was supposed to be about how things should work and how we should behave towards each other during this time. She does not want to talk about our relationship now, but it seems clear to me that she has already made up her mind. How do you stay optimistic in dark times like these? I feel like giving up hope.


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"I plan to purchase the materials once I have a better idea of how the money situation is looking."

The book is $12 on Amazon. Buy the book.

"I think many of her issues with marriage included:"

- Me being overbearing - It is true?
- loneliness - It is true?
- feeling unappreciated - Did you not value her?
- my frequent leaving at night - It is true? Why would you just leave?
- Emotional distance (this is a big one I think) - All of the above is what created the emotional distance

"How do you stay optimistic in dark times like these?"

It's in the books. You need to "get a life" and concentrate on yourself and on changing your bad habits.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Quote:
She does not want to talk about our relationship now, but it seems clear to me that she has already made up her mind. How do you stay optimistic in dark times like these? I feel like giving up hope.


Giving up? You haven't even started. This is not going to be fixed by having a relationship talk with her. I know that must be difficult to understand, especially if you are the type to work problems out by discussing it. When you have a WAW, she will not want to listen to talk about the M. She doesn't want to be around you right now.

Don't allow your fear to get the best of you. Sure, she may be thinking about D. I think all WAW's do. That doesn't mean they all go through with it.

It is usually a long process, so prepare yourself.

Btw, she was wrong to hide messages from anyone of the opposite sex. If he was just a friend, she would not feel the need for secrecy.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks for the replies, MrBond and sandi2!

Purchased DR yesterday and I'm still in the process of reading it. So far many things in the book make sense to me and actually make me feel much better. I especially liked the part I read about communication and how the things that we do can influence our spouse's attitude as well.

I have had our son with me for the past few days. I have taken steps to socialize more and GAL. I have worked more on some short stories that I have put off forever and met with friends to avoid isolating myself. Still very difficult to overcome the negativity, but I understand that this is a roller coaster ride. Trying to keep a PMA at all times.

I am very worried because she is taking my son to visit her sister in another town from W-S for the holiday. I have never been away from him that long and realize that I will be very lonely without him. I am also worried because I believe her sister is one of the well-meaning family members I read about, and that she will return with the decision to divorce me after talking with her. Any advice on how to react in that conversation should it arise?

Yesterday, during an exchange of our son, she did seem a little more friendly towards me. We talked like old times (about him, not about R) but it was still nice to have a conversation with her that I didn't walk away from feeling terribly. I felt I was nice to her, funny, and maybe just a tiny bit charming. Baby steps, yknow? Marathon, not a sprint.


Me 23, Her 21
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Met with my counselor yesterday and discussed some things that I can do to GAL. I am joining a gym and going to start working on my health. I've never really been active, so I'm not sure really where to start, but I think it will be good for me. I am working on constructing a more healthy diet. For fun, I am going to start taking guitar lessons (something I've always wanted to do) and seeing if there are any activities/clubs at the college that I can join. I'm also planning on volunteering at local soup kitchens and researching non-profit organizations in my area that I could possibly get involved in. I'm also planning on going and seeing a movie with an old buddy tonight, so I won't be so focused on not having my son.

Her mother is going to pick up my son for their road trip today. I actually did his laundry, which I think my WAW will get a kick out of, as it is something I rarely did when we were together. I am a little annoyed that she is not picking him up herself, but trying not to get too upset about it as it may just be a logistical thing (her mom is picking him up and then picking her up from work and then they're hitting the road).

What else can I say? I'm hanging in there, trying to do things to become the person that I want to be, and reading DR every day.


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Rough day today. Tried to stay positive during the holiday, didn't do very well. Backslid a little and kind of retreated to the basement. I was upset that she texted my aunt to say happy thanksgiving but said nothing to me. Finally, in a moment of weakness, I texted her and told her happy thanksgiving. Nothing more than that. I'm planning on Skyping my son (only 19 months old but still nice to see his face) tonight or tomorrow.

Crummy day, but going out with a friend tonight and hopefully catching a movie (reschedule from the other day).

Tomorrow's another day.


Me 23, Her 21
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Staying positive today. She is still out of town with my boy, so I'm finding new activities to do and trying to stay active. I woke up and played some disc golf today (very fun) and went for a hike with some friends.

I even began to think that I might be better off without her. I mean, I knew we fought a lot and that I was not a perfect husband by any means, but I loved her. I was a good father to our son. I did so much that was in the best interests of my family to the best of my ability. If she wants to leave and try the single life - okay. That stinks. But while she's gone I'm going to get healthy and I'm going to be a better person. Who knows what'll happen? I'm still young. I have a loving family and friends who care about me. I can still be a great dad.

If she wants a divorce, that's her decision. But if she thinks I'm just going to wait around like a sick puppy, she's got another thing coming. I'm sorry that it took so long to get through to me, but now that she has, she will one day have to see someone else reap the benefits of the positive changes I'm making to my life because of it.

I know I'm just speaking from a place of anger and rejection right now. But I need to start looking at the realities of the situation. Maybe she isn't coming back. Doesn't mean I'm gonna be sitting on the sidelines just in case.

- lonelyship


Me 23, Her 21
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Hello again. Got my son back this morning. Very happy to see him. When W showed up to drop him off, I was actually getting back from a run (completely unplanned). I think that surprised her, seeing me active. For the most part things were nice and friendly. I invited her in so that we could discuss the schedule for our son for the week. I told her that since she had him for Thanksgiving, I want him for Christmas. I offered to spend Christmas together (me going over to her mom's or her coming here), should have known that was a mistake. She looked upset the second I suggested it. Am I so horrible for wanting to spend Christmas with my son and trying to give her the opportunity to do so as well? She said it would be too awkward. I apologized later via text and tried to explain myself, to which she responded that she just didn't want to talk about it. I said I understood. Conversation has left me very discouraged.

I just can't stand the way she looks at me. When I brought up the Christmas thing, she looked almost disgusted. I know not to give up hope and that she hasn't had enough time yet, but it is so tough when I keep getting the cold shoulder. I want to imagine a time where she will one day love me again, very hard to picture though after that. She is so closed off to me.

Any words of encouragement/advice would be greatly appreciated.


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Huge slip up tonight. Need help.

She called and skyped my son. Afterwards, I called her out of weakness and basically proceeded to put my foot in my mouth and break several rules. Asked her if she thought she had made up her mind. She said that she thinks so. Tried to plead with her to not shut the door. She said that she was still thinking, but I could tell what she wanted to say. She said that she was much happier living without me. She said that she does not want to give things another try. That it was too painful to live with the anxiety and negativity. Told her that I will not quit until it's completely over, that she is the love of my life and that I am going to make her see that things can be different. That I am going to make her see that there is something worth fighting for. She acknowledged what I said, said she would think on things, I don't think it made a difference though. She is so shut off from me, the wall around her heart has barbed wire fences and an alligator-infested moat protecting it.

I know you are not supposed to believe what they say, but I just do not see any light at the end of this tunnel. I shouldn't have called. I shouldn't have broken the rules. I'm so dumb and weak.

Should I let her go? I do want her to be happy. Maybe the most loving thing I could do for her is to just let her go and be happy without me. Maybe we did get married too young. When she took me back, I told her I'd never take her for granted and I did. Maybe I just don't deserve her.

Please help, fellow DBers. I need some guidance.


Me 23, Her 21
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Bumping because I'm still looking for advice/guidance.


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Inlyshp,

I'm new here -- so I'm not a seasoned vet, so take what I say with the understanding that I'm still trying to figure all of this out.

I think you are still so fresh in your stitch that you need to take a step back and breathe. How long has your W been out of the house? A few weeks? I know it seems like eternity. I know you want her to come back. But the best advice I can give you is to breath and give her some space. Let both parties calm down and think. You said you want to make her see that things can be different. But what's different in the time that she's been gone? Are the changes that you're making permanent? Things you would want to do regardless of if your W left? Things that you would want to do regardless if you knew she wasn't coming home?

You're all over the place with your posts. On the 28th you said that you weren't going to wait around like a puppy. That you're still young. Now you're wanting to do anything but then you end your post with the thought..that maybe you guys got married too young and that you don't deserve her. You need this time to reflect and get to a place that is less angry and rejected. (I'm three months into my situation and I'm still having trouble with this).

You've been given a great gift (and I know it doesn't seem like it....TRUST ME, I know), the gift of time. You have time to really evaluate who you are, who you want to be. How things got to be the way they are with your W. You have time to really change yourself and to get healthy both mentally and physically. Use this time to reflect and to become the man you want to be. The father you want to be.

Read the rules. Read them often. Stop asking for reassurances. Stop telling your wife how you're going to change and actually work on it.

Good luck!


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If it can help you stick with the rules, think of your W as a new girl you're trying to impress. You still think of her as your W, but the rules have changed. They flipped. With your W, in a normal R, you say "I love you, you're the greatest, I'd swim to the end of the word for you" and she's head over heels. Now try saying that to a new girl? She'll think you're a creep. That's where your W is now. She's detached and rejecting you, so she's repulsed by your professions of love even though they feel great to you. Imagine that a random girl at the grocery store tells you those things. Not cool.

You need to re-create the attraction with your W. That's how she might come back. You're starting from afar, but you're only making things worse by pursuing. Give her some distance first. Then give her someone she can be attracted to. You've done it before.


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hit the gym mate lift some weights get your self in the best shape of your life, its amazing what you can achieve in 6 months and the ladies seem to like it, and just as the fog is clearing bang here is the new you

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lnlyshp,

I think you are definitely educating yourself, and starting to measure your success. Keep doing that. Something I did (or am doing) is that instead of reaching out to her or saying something to her in the heat of the moment, I held it back and wrote it down in a journal. It is a great release and helps with understanding yourself even better. I think you got some great information from paul 47 and mozza.

You can't control her or her actions. You can control yourself. Do things you love, or you have always wanted to do. This is an opportunity for you to become a better Father, Friend, Son and Husband. It is not over until you want it to be over. Keep your head up and do your 180's and follow the LRT.

Good luck!


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
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Thank you all for the wonderful advice.

Calibri, I think you're right about me being all over the place. It really is a roller coaster ride. I go from depressed to angry to lonely to rejected and even optimistic in the course of a day usually. You're also correct about focusing on the changes in my life and letting time do it's thing. I need more time to reflect on the reasons my marriage failed. I need time to make the changes I told myself I would. Thank you for the kind words.

Mozza, I am starting to see my own position in her heart. It is just so hard not to be discouraged when she says she is happier without me. But you're right, I have to stick to the plan and give her space. Like Calibri points out, it hasn't even been that long for me, especially compared to some of the vets here. I will definitely take your advice and start looking at my relationship from that perspective, hopefully that will give me strength in regards to following the rules and sticking with the plan. Thank you for the advice.

Paul, I have been trying to get in shape. My problem has always been I'm a chubby skinnyfat kid that has no idea where to start and no clue as to my way around a gym. I've been starting to eat healthier though and walking most every day. I just need to start hitting the weights!

Thanks again for the advice everyone. I needed that perspective.


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Ins

This is all very new to you and by seeking advice you are showing enormous maturity. Improving yourself is ultimately the most important thing you can do for yourself and your child.

There is plenty of time and space, more than you think. Allow this to yourself and your son. Self improvement is a lifelong objective and not just about physicality but spirit too. Age has no bearing on this as I wish that I had discovered this early.

W will notice your changes, but do this for you.

The generous members of this board invest in themselves and offer advice and support to each other. They will spend time investing in you (not W).
DB will be for life.

Happy days
Vanilla


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Originally Posted By: lnlyshp
I am going to make her see that things can be different. That I am going to make her see that there is something worth fighting for.


Lonely,

Did you really say these things? Are you reading the book? Slow down. STFU. Show change through actions, not words.


me: 45 W:45
M 20 years
T 22 years
S14, S13, S11, D9
BD 2/28/14
D papers served 3/3/14
I moved out 3/15/14
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Vanilla, thank you for the encouragement. I need to realize that time is my friend. I also have been thinking about your point about spiritual improvement. I need to improve mind, body, and soul. I appreciate all the members of this board, the community has been very welcoming and full of great advice.

Nettles, unfortunately I did. It all came out like word vomit. I recently finished DR as well, but for whatever reason felt the need to try and explain myself to her. I was discouraged by her suggestion that she had basically made up her mind. Perhaps I was trying to convince myself more than I was trying to convince her. Either way, I am very embarrassed about calling her and even more embarrassed about what I said.


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Originally Posted By: lnlyshp
word vomit


Yup. No more regurgitations.

Originally Posted By: lnlyshp
for whatever reason felt the need to try and explain myself to her


Recognize it next time and resist the urge.

Originally Posted By: lnlyshp
I am very embarrassed about calling her and even more embarrassed about what I said.


You learned, right? Move on to the positive things you're going to do.


me: 45 W:45
M 20 years
T 22 years
S14, S13, S11, D9
BD 2/28/14
D papers served 3/3/14
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mahhhty,

Thank you for the advice! I've actually been keeping a journal since she left, a more personal journal, really. But I think your idea about writing rather than reaching is a great one. Hell, I'll do pretty much anything to avoid breaking the plan at the point. I can't backslide and plead anymore. My mouth just gets me in more trouble and makes me feel much worse after the conversations.

"It is not over until you want it to be over." Exactly what I needed to hear today. Thank you so much.

Last edited by lnlyshp; 12/02/14 10:28 PM.

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Looking for advice on an idea I had.

We have a shared checking account which we both have direct deposits feeding into. The other night, as I tried falling asleep, I was thinking about detaching and ways to do that. I'm someone that obsessively checks my bank account, but really don't like seeing what she's been up to. There's nothing bad on there, it feels like spying, not something I want to do.

I was thinking about closing the account, giving her the lion's share of the money (it's not that much). I think this would help me detach, but not sure that's it's a step I want to take. On one hand, it might help me move on and even show her that. On the other hand, it seems a bit counterproductive to the overall goal of saving my marriage.

Any advice? Good idea/stupid idea?


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Feeling lonely today. I watched my son all day long, which is always nice, but doing it alone is so tough sometimes. He is sick, the poor thing. I am taking the best care of him that I can, just very tiring without some help.

The past few interactions with W have been up and down. I was out with a friend and she kept trying to drop him off to me, even though I kept explaining that I wasn't home. She seemed annoyed that I wasn't home already and kept responding to me with "K", which I know was an attempt to upset me (she knows it pushes my buttons). Didn't let it phase me though, just stayed calm and explained I would pick him up as soon as possible (she'd literally only had him for half a day, so not sure what the big rush was).

Today, I asked if she was going to pick him up after work tomorrow (as per the plan we made at the beginning of the week) to which she said "Yes". I said okay, thank you. No response. Really frustrating sometimes to deal with the one word/letter responses. I'm not going to bring it up to her or anything, just venting here. It's hard to get the cold shoulder all the time when I'm just trying to be nice and make sure she'd still be able to get him. I need to leave as soon as she normally picks him up to go to my counselor (didn't tell her that of course), otherwise I wouldn't have even asked.

Sigh. Any tips on dealing with the icy courtesy? I know to stay positive no matter what and give it time. I just don't see why she has to be so rude.


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The checking account, this is a practical matter. But if you want to check it do so, if you feel this is getting compulsive then this needs addressing with your IC.

You could chose to open your own account as a fail safety measure. Absolutely have your full entitlement to the existing account if that's 50% then transfer it.

Could you tell us about 2 year old sons illness please?

I am glad he has such a loving dad to nurse him.

You asked for advice on the ice attitude, frankly ignore W mood, you have no control over it.
Softness of dreams
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/05/14 01:45 AM. Reason: Spelling

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Originally Posted By: Vanilla
Could you tell us about 2 year old sons illness please?

I am glad he has such a loving dad to nurse him.


Nothing big. It's just been cold lately so he has a stuffed up nose and a cough. I can tell it's been bothering him because he's so cranky. I also suspect he is teething again because his cheeks have been so red.

Being patient with him and doing all I can to soothe him. Times like these I wish I had my W (so we could both help care for him and because I just think sometime kids need to be held by their mommies when they're sick).

frown


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Originally Posted By: lnlyshp
My mouth just gets me in more trouble and makes me feel much worse after the conversations.


My goodness so does mine. I am a gut feeling guy. So telling my brain that everything I think doesn't need to come out of my mouth was/is difficult. Here are a few things I've been thinking/trying...

I read this article on self-control where the author took cold showers to teach his mind and body not to react impulsively. It has an odd soothing effect of empowerment if you can stand tall under the cold water. Don't get hypothermia though...

Also when I get a little flustered or upset, I continually check what I see by asking myself... what do you want to say and what do you want her to hear

Lastly, there is a decent book about de-escalating conflict and attempting to be heard or be compassionate... Talk to me like someone you love.


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Do you have family close by?
Is there day to day support for you?

This precious little boy needs his mum as much as his dad especially when he is poorly and teething, of course he does, but he has something very special, he has wonderful love from you.

Vanilla


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Mahhhhty man, guys like us gotta learn to shut it. Those are some great tips though. Not sure if I can do the cold showers, but the strategy about asking what you want to say/what you want to hear seems really helpful. The book also sounds like a must read for someone like me.

Vanilla, yes, as stated I live with some family now. They are there for me and help with my son as much as possible. They've been gone this week unfortunately. So it's just been me and the kiddo in the big empty house. Thank you for your kind words. I know that, whatever happens, he has to come first.


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Originally Posted By: Vanilla

There is plenty of time and space, more than you think. Allow this to yourself and your son. Self improvement is a lifelong objective and not just about physicality but spirit too. Age has no bearing on this as I wish that I had discovered this early.

W will notice your changes, but do this for you.

The generous members of this board invest in themselves and offer advice and support to each other. They will spend time investing in you (not W).
DB will be for life.


What a great post! I imagine that this is applicable to almost everyone... it is definitely applicable to me!


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Originally Posted By: lnlyshp
Mahhhhty man, guys like us gotta learn to shut it.


Thats definitely one of my 180's...

I'm not an overly religious person but this is always on my mind, and is definitely useful.

Quote:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.


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This means that you will have family around you this Christmas and this is going to give you some support as you seem very close to them. If they are away and I guess you have been with a poorly son then this isn't easy. Some times family can be too jolly and lacking direction but it's good to know you have them on your side.

One slight word of caution though, if you and W reunite then family may get in the way if they think you are going to get hurt, they may also try to persuade you to move on sooner than you might want to. Fore warned means thanking them for their concern but having a boundary which advises you will do this in your own time.

I was a little confused when you said you were on your own with S but I now understand thank you for clarifying. The prayer you mention is the Serenity Prayer a cornerstone of every 12 step program and a mantra for life. I love it too.

Get some GAL too with your friends and let us know your plans
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/06/14 12:08 PM.

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Working out a lot more and counting calories. My gym has a daycare to watch the little one, so that's nice. Still attending weekly IC, still doing my 180s. Keeping things light and pulling back from her whenever possible. When I do see her, the talk is still about the schedule about the little one.

Need help trying to detach today. Feels so lonely. Not quitting on LRT, just feels so counter-intuitive sometimes when all I want today is to reach out to my W and tell her I love her and miss her so much. That's why I'm posting here, to avoid saying anything to her. Guess I just felt like feeling sorry for myself, sorry friends.


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Feeling sorry for ones self and the sitch is absolutely part of the cycle.

The key thing is not to get trapped in it.

Are you ready to discuss your part in this?

What were the actions on your part that your W complained of?
Are those complaints valid?
Whilst you are dark what can you do to change?

Vanilla


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I took my wife for granted. I left her at home alone entirely too much so that I could go out with friends, which made her feel lonely. She says that she is happier without the anxiety and depression that I caused her. I believe this was due to my sometimes overbearing nature and being too quick to anger.

I believe all of these complaints are valid.

While she has been gone (can't be completely dark because of son), I have started working out and eating healthier in an attempt to look my best and cut out the negative things I would do when I left her home alone (drinking, etc). I have also been attending IC to try and work on my anger issues and overbearing nature. I do not believe I am the only cause of her her anxiety & depression, but have accepted my role in those problems.


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If your W has the blues, is that anything to do with the baby?

Did you leave her alone with the baby when you went out?

Please can you put an order on the events for us.

Accept from me, no one can make another anxious or depressed. That is their way of reacting and W is wholly responsible for her reactions. You and W are separate individuals and each of you is responsible for themselves.

As for the other items you mention, of course they have a bearing on the environment and your M. They are an influence, but W wayward behaviour is her choice, she could have chosen to work with you to resolve this.
My concern is that having the baby and the hormonal changes may play a part so I need more details and can you be as specific as possible.
Regards
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I'll try and give a timeline from memory here Vanilla:

- Started dating again/reconciled august 2012 (apart for 6 months, together for ~6 years)
- Moved in together September 2012
- Engaged Jan 2013
- Son born May 2013
- Married at the courthouse March 2014
- Moved in with my family August 2014
- She moved out Nov 2014

I think the baby had something to do with her depression, but as he is ~19 months old now, I think the problem was more about my shortcomings as a husband and general unhappiness in our relationship. Hope that helps you get a clearer picture of the situation.


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Can you explain about moving in to your family home and why the two of you and the young un had no separate home of your own.

Who is in the family home and how did you guys mix and match? Any tensions?

Vanilla


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Sure.

Our lease to our apartment ended in June. We asked for an additional month and were told it was fine, just would have to pay a premium. We were fine with that, as we were still searching for a place that we liked. In July, I called in the middle of the month and requested an additional month but had to leave a message at the apartment. Didn't hear anything back so I assumed I was good. At the end of the month, they finally called and told us to be ready for our exit inspection! They claimed that they had never received my request for an additional month, and that our apartment had been rented.

We weighed our options, and decided that living with my Uncle/Aunt was the best course until we could find a new place that we liked. She wanted us to stay with her mom and siblings, but I got the feeling that her mom didn't especially want that. In retrospect, I wish I would have just moved in with her family. She seemed to get along with my family who were very welcoming, but I see now why that made her feel out of place and lonely.

After our most recent fight (when she left), I offered to move over there. But I think she was already past that idea. She says she is much happier living over there with her mom, sisters & brothers.

So that's the story of how our current living situation got where it is.

Our schedule with the baby as of now:
- Currently, she works 6am-3pm M-F so I watch our son during all those times. I go to school on M & W, so when I can not watch him, it is always one of my family members that does so.

I keep him all M. She picks him up Tues when she gets off work and I pick him up before bedtime. I keep him W until I drop him off with my family member, then she picks him up and keeps him through the night. She drops him off early morning Thursday (my day). We're still sorting out how the weekends work.


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Today, I went to the gym with my son and dropped him off at the day care. They must have left a name tag on him because when my wife came to pick him up after work, she found it on his jacket.

"Where'd you guys go?" she asks.

"A place." I say, as I smile my secret smile, the one like I have a secret nobody in the world knows.

"Tell me!" she says, not unkindly.

"The gym," I explain, "He had fun at the daycare with the other kids."

We joke for a little while about him. I know she was mostly asking because of him, but it was nice to see her showing interest in what he and I were up to.

She watches him for the afternoon and I'm to pick him up around bed time. I text and ask if it's okay if I pick him up late, because I need to finish my paper. When I arrive, she asks if I finished my paper (I hadn't). I joke with her because I never finish my college work on time, which she knows. "I was just asking, butthead!" she says with a smile.

"Goodnight," I say after she loads the baby into my car and I turn to get in my seat. "Goodnight," she replies.

I see a glimmer in her eyes when she looks at me sometimes. I don't know what it means, but it's nice to see her smile around me. It's nice to know that she doesn't hate me, at least. I don't consider conversations like this baby steps, because they're still just about our son and nothing to do with reconciliation or the R. I just...love that girl. I want those smiles in my life, no matter what. Detaching is hard, especially when I think about like I am tonight, but I like it when things are pleasant between us.

*Sigh* sorry for the novel, everyone. I'm hopeless!


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This your place to put your thoughts, go for it. Some DBers cover a thread every few days. The more sedate every month or so. Just keep on keep on posting.

Travel a little to other threads, post a short post where you feel appropriate. Even saying have a better day today is enough as long as it is heartfelt. Then others will visit, you can even ask them to post on your thread, ask questions of other posters and write about your sitch. I think that your writing is very clear and emotionally expressed. It is a very attractive style. My own was stuccato and lacked flow so you are well ahead.

Similar DBers tend to appear on each other's posts, you will find your team of like minds daisy chain from each other. The vets will offer the gifts of the 2x4. My approach was to look for posters I felt resonated, you may chose dads or mums with young ones who are 2 to 3 months along the same road. Consider reading uppercu posts in marriage/infidelity forum.

Where are you in the DR book?

If you are starting with the beginners mind have you examined the fallacies around marriage?


Vanilla


Last edited by Vanilla; 12/10/14 04:11 PM.

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Originally Posted By: lnlyshp
I see a glimmer in her eyes when she looks at me sometimes. I don't know what it means, but it's nice to see her smile around me. It's nice to know that she doesn't hate me, at least. I don't consider conversations like this baby steps, because they're still just about our son and nothing to do with reconciliation or the R. I just...love that girl. I want those smiles in my life, no matter what. Detaching is hard, especially when I think about like I am tonight, but I like it when things are pleasant between us.

*Sigh* sorry for the novel, everyone. I'm hopeless!


You are not hopeless. You carry hope, that is why you are here. Many people resort to anger and despair, and therefore don't adapt. You are adapting through learning, paying attention and GAL!

Keep things light. Don't backslide. Convince yourself and convince her that you are GAL. Read sandi2's 37 rules. I have these in my phone and read them every couple of days.

37 Rules


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Quote:
Detaching is hard, especially when I think about like I am tonight, but I like it when things are pleasant between us.


How do you see detaching? What does it mean to you?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Vanilla, I probably need some 2x4's right about now. I have finished DR, considering reading DB.

Mahhhty, yes, I read the 37 rules almost daily. At least once on the days that I know we will see one another. I am working hard on GAL. Sometimes I feel like a different person.

Sandi2, I have been thinking about that a lot lately. I used to think that detaching means not being in love anymore or not caring, but I see now that those are not truly possible. I was reading an old thread about detaching today and started thinking about what it truly meant. My counselor has explained that she can't make me feel anything, that is to say, my emotions come from within. I want to get to that level of understanding and owning my feelings. The things that she does will affect me of course, and I can not stop loving her. But I do hope I can get to a point where I will be okay with the things that I cannot change (her feelings and actions). What would you advise about that?


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You don't need 2x4, my young friend you need a home of your own with your child. Somewhere to build from. And yet you need to be with others and be sharing life's difficulties. I see a tension between conflicting needs. This is very complex sitch indeed.
How much longer do you have to study?
When do you join the working world?
What do you see when you do, what does your future hold?

Vanilla


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Have you read Peanut's definition of detaching? It's a good description.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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It won't hurt to copy/paste it again.

Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."

IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -

We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.


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Thanks for posting Sandi -- this is the best description (and most helpful) that I've seen thus far.


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Yes, a place for me and my son would be great. I would feel lonely at first but moving out on my own again would really help me to move on. Unfortunately without W's income we are not in a financial to do so right now. I have about a year left of college. Unfortunately, because of W's schedule, it almost necessitates that I can't just get any job and work regular hours. So I have been looking around for unconventional times (perhaps working nights again). Not sure what to do, kind of stuck right now financially.


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Sandi2, that is a really great read. "I am not getting what I want, so I must pull back."

I have been working on letting go of codependent habits at IC and this really matches up with what I've been talking about with him. One of my 180's is to be a more positive person and, looking at detachment through this lens, I believe will really help me do that. Rather than being angry at W, I must detach and try and forgive her, but also forgive myself.

Thank you for posting that.


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Need help ASAP.

Going to drop my son off in about a half hour. Saw she withdrew $500 from our account. I don't want to ask where the money is going, but I need to let her know that is an amount that we need to talk about before withdrawing. How should I phrase this?


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It's a tough question you are asking without knowing the details of your previous way of dealing with finances and paying bills.

My quick thought is that there should be 3 separate accounts - one to pay bills from, one for you separately, and one for your w to have her separately. That way neither of you can know of the other's spending habits. But then you will have to make sure W puts in enough to pay for the monthly bills. Good luck.


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Well, met with her to drop off the son and asked if she wanted to get coffee so we could discuss finances. We did, and I think it was a good meeting. I didn't ask where the money went, but she told me anyway. She started her own bank account. Disappointing but I can't say that I blame her. She left me a lot of the money. I was proud of my reaction, didn't get upset like I believe she expected. It will also help with my habitual checking of the account. We planned out a loose budget and I expressed my need for her to help more with the baby. I chose my words very carefully so as not to express frustration, just explained what I needed.

The attitude in the meeting was very positive. She smiled quite a lot and we made a lot of jokes together. I like to show her that side of me.

Staying positive today, working out with a buddy and going on some adventures.

Thank you, Wet, for the response!


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I would confirm in writing with W your understanding of the conversation. That she has left you the bulk of the cash. Then move it to an account in your name. Outline what you believe you have agreed. Email is fine, but do this matter of fact.

W, I understand that you gave taken x from our account and that the remaining cash is remaining for .......
I intend to open my own account as I can see this is practical. For the time being the joint account will remain open.
If your interpretation is different please let me know

Keep matters about the baby separate for the moment, you may need to revisit cost allocation for baby. As she works and you are a student, then there will be extra issues arising.

You kept the interaction positive but don't chase W. Keep steady Ins and keep posting.
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As always, thank you for the advice and for the response, Vanilla. You have been a great help in this time.

Journaling: Today is a tough one. I suffered an injury working out (I'm guessing a strained hip flexor) and now I can barely walk. Very difficult to keep up with the little one and now my outlet of going to the gym will be paused for a while. I will have to rest up for a week or so, I imagine. Tried to explain to W that I may need to go to a doctor. She responds that "well, you have insurance, so you can make an appointment." Makes me feel so needy. I only have insurance through her job right now. Makes me feel like she's just taking pity on me and not divorcing me so I don't lose insurance. I feel worthless. No wonder she left. I can't even support myself.

Explained that I may need more help with the baby than I thought (recall we discussed her taking him for more days than usual this week because finals are coming up). She seemed very annoyed at this request. I told her I don't want her to be mad at me because of it (I know, I should've stfu), she said she wasn't. I probably came off as needy and I'm sure she resents me for asking for so much help. Ungh.

I don't know what to do. I'm in a lot of physical pain and the stress of school is driving me crazy. I don't want to ask for any more help from her but I just need someone to help me, just for a tiny bit. Is that so much to ask? I'm not asking so that I can go out and party (like she is). I'm asking so that I can get things done and so that I can heal from injury.


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Originally Posted By: lnlyshp
As always, thank you for the advice and for the response, Vanilla. You have been a great help in this time.

Journaling: Today is a tough one. I suffered an injury working out (I'm guessing a strained hip flexor) and now I can barely walk. Very difficult to keep up with the little one?.......

I will have to rest up for a week or so, I imagine. Tried to explain to W that I may need to go to a doctor. She responds that "well, you have insurance, so you can make an appointment." Makes me feel so needy. I only have insurance through her job right now. Makes me feel like she's just taking pity on me and not divorcing me so I don't lose insurance. I feel worthless. No wonder she left. I can't even support myself.

Explained that I may need more help with the baby than I thought (recall we discussed her taking him for more days than usual this week because finals are coming up). She seemed very annoyed at this request. I told her I don't want her to be mad at me because of it (I know, I should've stfu), she said she wasn't. I probably came off as needy and I'm sure she resents me for asking for so much help. Ungh.

I don't know what to do. I'm in a lot of physical pain and the stress of school is driving me crazy. I don't want to ask for any more help from her but I just need someone to help me, just for a tiny bit. Is that so much to ask? I'm not asking so that I can go out and party (like she is). I'm asking so that I can get things done and so that I can heal from injury.


Ins, these things happen at the worst of times, sometimes for the best of reasons, to help us dig deeper.

Stop the pity party please and let's start the practical party. Firstly, W married YOU and you are a student. So far logical. There is a baby, which you take care of. W has insurance and as a family it extends to you. You are in pain and injured, go get this seen to immediately before there is damage. Frankly who knows or cares what W thinks, you and the little one matter more than any random thought of Ws. You want to continue to look after the little one? Then go get doctoring. Read my sitch, none of H views on my health bothers me. Pain does though!

In any case, it's in her best interest to have you up and running again (pun intended) as then you can help with the little one. Go get pain relief without any delay.

When you have ceased being a student then no doubt you will be working and having insurance of your own. Go do it, no hestitation, you have studies and a baby.

Is there a student union or bursary? Chat to a tutor and see if short term crèche can be arranged whilst you do finals, any other young parents that you can do a swap with, you get relief during finals and then you cover another time. You may be looking for a student in the next semester whose finals don't overlap. There will be a solution.

Discuss your sitch with your tutor, there may be resources of which you are unaware or there may be auxiliary which will help.

This is one time when you really don't STFU, this isn't about R it's about your future and that of you little one. Your long term future.

Conversation "W, for the next few weeks whilst I study for my finals I would like....... This is about my future and my long term ability to provide and care for our child. Can you please (help me pay for a crèche, baby minder, or provide relief cover yourself) on x And y dates as I need to study for my finals"


Time for action Ins, get studying for those finals, we need some celebration drinks.
This is tough but it's possible. As a young dad then you need all the help and support you can get, ask for it!

Let us know, we are with you
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/15/14 04:23 PM.

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Let us know how things are Ins.

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Hey vanilla. Thanks for checking up on me. smile

Here's the rundown:
- at the gym daily, working harder than I ever have in my life
- going to IC on Friday, he gave me a homework assignment where I will write a letter saying goodbye to my relationship, not necessarily to my marriage, but to the bad things in my old relationship
- finished my finals, feel that I did reasonably well, looking forward to a break before I start classes again late next month
- not much change with W. she is friendly usually, still can be quite cold at times. she still seems set on no reconciliation, not that I have asked. just expecting the worst still. don't know why she hasn't just served me with dissolution papers yet. maybe she's still trying to make up her mind or just waiting for after the holidays to do so. unsure what to do in that regard.

there has been a girl at school that has shown a lot of interest in me. very sweet girl, I really enjoy her energy. of course, nothing will come of it on my end. i know that I still love my W. just not sure how to let girl down easy.

still looking for ways to keep the hope alive. trying to stay patient, just very lonely and wishing I could detach and begin to move on with my life. wishing I wasn't still living in the past and thinking about all the things I could have done differently. wishing i could start to forgive myself for doing this to my family.

- lonelyship


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Also should mention that I saw doctor and had hip looked at. It is not as bad as I originally imagined. A few days later and I'm feeling much better. Still tender, so I'm trying to take it easy on that area. But not in so much physical pain anymore


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So here is my dilemma this evening. Our schedule for this week calls for W to have son tomorrow night. She just texts and explains her friend is getting married and her coworkers invited her to go out for girls night tomorrow. So she is asking if I will keep him. I am torn on what to do and how to handle it.

When I asked to switch days a couple of weeks ago so that I could get some errands taken care of, she got upset with me about not sticking with the schedule and claimed she had already made plans.

I'll be honest, I didn't have any definitive plans set for tomorrow. I was planning to go out with friends and celebrate the semesters end, but I don't imagine it would be a problem if it was pushed to Saturday. However, I almost want to say "no" on principle alone. I can't change the schedule, but she can? She asked nicely, said she would appreciate it and everything, but I did the same a couple of weeks ago and she got really mad at me. I don't think that's fair. I almost think it would be better for her (and for my goals) to miss out on it and stay home with her son.

I know that if I don't take him, she will get upset with me again and the cold shoulder will continue. If I do take him, I feel like I will be showing her that it's okay for her to break the schedule and to take advantage of my kindness and my love for my son. I feel like I lose either way.

Any advice?


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I am pleased about the injury not being as serious as first pain indicated. How did the study and exams go?

With regard to the other decisions and You wanting W to remake your family then keep working on you.

The key question is what action you take must be best for your son. As far as I can see that is the most important decision to make. If he has a wayward mother then a loving father is vital to this S that you clearly love so much. What is best for S?

If you are achieving the best result for S then you are truly DB even if that means your schedule with S is six days a week. Make it clear to W that S comes first for both of you and this is a boundary issue for you. That is real strength.

After that it's an easy stance, stick to the schedule but frankly S comes first. You know this right?

Vanilla


Last edited by Vanilla; 12/19/14 12:58 AM.

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Well, conversation probably could not have gone worse. Called with full intention of taking him for tomorrow, just wanted to explain that I need more flexibility for the schedule in the future (ie - not fair to say "I already had plans, lonelyship, so you're out of luck" if I do her this favor). Managed to get pulled into an argument about it. First one in almost 3 weeks. I feel so awful for what I said. I said something to the effect of "If you don't want to take care of him, I will." I meant it as "if you can't take care of him for the next few days, I have no problem doing so," but realized as soon as I said it how it would come off and how it sounded. She got upset immediately and hung up.

Called back to explain myself. She was very angry, of course. I deserve that. She angrily told me that if I think that she doesn't want to take care of her son, that she will take me to court, win full custody and I won't ever see him again. Explained that she shouldn't punish son because she was mad at me, she said that I shouldn't push her to do so. That hurt so bad. I'm very scared now. I don't want to lose my son. I tried calming her down, explaining that I was sorry for saying what I did and that it did not come off as I meant it. She was still angry. The idea that she is not a good mom has always been something she was self-conscious about, and I feel horrible for making her think that was my image of her. I've never thought she was a bad mom. I think she is a good mom. I know how much she loves our son. Told her I didn't want to fight, that I didn't know what was going to happen in the future but that I wanted to have the best relationship possible with her for the sake of our baby.

She eventually started crying and explaining that she feels selfish for wanting to spend time with her friends. I tried to calm her down, but she was still very angry at me for having said what I did. I ended the conversation by telling her I was sorry for what I said, that it was not what I meant to say and that I was sorry that I hurt her feelings. I told her I thought she was a good mom and that I know how hard she works for him and how much she loves him. She was still mad, but mostly hurt.

Shouldn't have even picked up the stupid phone and called. Shouldn't have let myself get pulled into a fight. Shouldn't have said what I did and hurt her feelings.

I messed up. Not sure I can recover from that one.


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Yes, you can recover, we always can, but learn the lessons.

One of them is: Don't call with the intention of teaching her anything. In your case, I'd add: Don't call if it can be avoided. With my W, this kind of exchange comes down to 2 texts or emails: "Can you take D3 and D6 tomorrow?" and "Sorry I can't / Sure I will". Perhaps some logistics afterwards.

Just accepting to take care of him would have sent the signal that she needs to be more flexible. Speak with your actions.


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Originally Posted By: Mozza
Yes, you can recover, we always can, but learn the lessons.

One of them is: Don't call with the intention of teaching her anything. In your case, I'd add: Don't call if it can be avoided. With my W, this kind of exchange comes down to 2 texts or emails: "Can you take D3 and D6 tomorrow?" and "Sorry I can't / Sure I will". Perhaps some logistics afterwards.

Just accepting to take care of him would have sent the signal that she needs to be more flexible. Speak with your actions.


I agree with Mozza.
You can always rehearse what you want to text or say here on the board. I don't think you have done permanent damage here. You make this about your child Ins not about you and W.

Vanilla


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Thank you both for the responses. I am still very sad today. I now have S2 for tonight, she will pick him up Saturday morning and drop him off before going to an office Christmas party. It stinks that I will not get a change to go celebrate my finals being over, but I am just going to try and make the most of the weekend I have with S.

In the future, I'm just not going to call her. I convinced myself that things were going well enough that a quick phone call to discuss this weekend schedule wouldn't hurt. I wish I would have just texted, or just gotten off the phone quickly. I thought that I was doing well with my anger towards her, but the fact that I had to say what I did (even if I didn't mean it as harshly as it came off) means that I still haven't got there yet. Any tips on dealing with anger towards a WAS? I am still in that place of rejection that Mozza talked about previously. At IC, I am working to forgive myself and to "let myself off the hook" for the failure of my marriage. After our session today (the little one will stay with my family for an hour or so), I will try and post the letter I plan to write.

Her insinuation that she would take me to court and win full custody also had me thinking last night. I don't work, I go to school. She works and makes very good money for someone her age. She probably would win full custody, although S spends most of his time with me. Not sure how that process works and have no real desire to find out. But it is something to think about. I don't think she means to follow through on what she said, although I feel it shows a bit of immaturity on her part to threaten to try and keep him from me out of anger, knowing full well that I take good care of him and love him with all my heart. My immediate instinct is to try and "win" son in court, but that is a thought out of anger towards W's words. I know that what is best for him is joint custody, and being able to see both his father and mother.

Just venting, I suppose. I am going to try stay positive about the sich, but after last night, I don't see a scenario where she wants to fix our relationship. Vanilla is right. I need to do what is best for S. Just not sure what that is most of the time.


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Keep things to a text if possible. Keep it short and simple. Let your W escalate into phone calls, when she's ready. And then, keep it short and simple.

I understand the anger. I do. I can be fine, one minute, but when I talk to my H and he wants to do "small talk" something inside of me just snaps. But I'm starting to realize, the anger is coming from rejection, fear that we won't work out, and impatience that he's not at a point to work on our relationship. So, I'm trying to stay quiet and not talk on the phone.

As for your wife and court -- I would advise you to talk to a L. Most consults are free. When this all started with my H, I consulted a L just to see the things I should think about, do/don't do. It's a good thing I did, because unbeknownst to me my H would drop another bomb on me that day. He even suggested I move out of our House, because he needed time and space. Because I had consulted a L - I knew not to leave, and was already prepared for that situation. Go for peace of mind, but knowledge of what you could possible be against. It's better to take that time -- rather than sit and wonder what if.


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Well done for putting S first. Who says you can't GAL with S?

What a wonderful way to GAL with a little one at Xmas. Find a single parents group and I will bet there are tons of activities on offer for very little $$$$. You and the little one will have a fantastic time.

You asked about anger. Anger usually comes from rejection and fear and often we are afraid of our anger. Unless you are using anger as a form of punishing yourself then it's part of the process. For me, until I decided that my anger wasn't going to help me then I couldn't let go. Letting go does not mean forgiveness or forgetting, but it helps in losing resentment. I was both afraid of being angry and afraid of not being angry. Both made me feel like I was still connected to H, I was attached. So I learned to detach and observe what made me angry.

Letting go of anger didn't feel very good, it made me worried and sick to start with as this meant my image of H had to go. I ceased to put H as the focus of my life and I felt lost.

In some ways I felt ashamed because H had rejected me. In an odd way I had given H more power in the S because he had done the BD. By taking back control I managed to leave the anger but I have neither forgiven nor forgotten. The resentment has gone and I find H and his flailing very amusing and childish instead.

So how did I work with my anger? I had IC and talked through strategies.

And then a big dose of STFU, because if I let loose I got spew and vitriol in return which cycled the anger. The odd thing is the more I STFU, the stronger I got and the less I apportioned blame. The greatest beat up was of myself. Now I say to myself about H behaviour "what an arse" and "your loss mate" and " grow up". I just grin when I think it, go away put on some music, and imagine H as a big cartoon baby. I look at the behaviour and not the person and know this is a phase. I think how awful H must feel inside to behave that way and I emphatically would not want to he him at those times.

So my strategy is STFU and using Sandi guidelines.

I do not stir the pot, pea in the soup or drop dung on my doorstep. I leave it alone and STFU.

W is pressing buttons over S to keep you in line. Ok you are a student, so what, you are a dad providing a loving home. I can't tell your time zone or location and that would be useful information for posters here who may have experience of your jurisdiction.

No letters, apologies, or chasing of W, you don't need to do that Ins. Your actions with S are enough. mozza and calibre strategy is the best one. L is important.
Enjoy being with your S and go do some GAL with him.

Proud of you
Vanilla




Last edited by Vanilla; 12/19/14 06:33 PM.

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She is bullying you with her anger and cold shoulder. When you decide to live your life for "you" instead of living it for a WAW, you'll see how most of these type problems take care of themselves.


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Very upset with her today. Since she is going to her office party tonight, she was supposed to pick him up at noon. It is now about 2, and I have not been able to get a hold of her. I am worried that something happened to her. My MIL hasn't heard anything from her. Short of something that happened, I don't understand what's going on. Maybe she's still sleeping from going out with her friends last night. If that is the case, wow. Seriously irresponsible on her part. If she's mad at me from the last time she talked - I don't understand why she is taking it out on her son. Trying not to guess at the situation without knowing what's up, my mind is just racing.

Since I've had time to calm down about her not being here - I'm deciding that I'm just going to have more fun with my son. I cannot control her decisions towards him, and if she's going to be this irresponsible and immature, the best place for him to be is with me anyway.


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Originally Posted By: lnlyshp
Very upset with her today. Since she is going to her office party tonight, she was supposed to pick him up at noon. It is now about 2, and I have not been able to get a hold of her. I am worried that something happened to her. My MIL hasn't heard anything from her. Short of something that happened, I don't understand what's going on. Maybe she's still sleeping from going out with her friends last night. If that is the case, wow. Seriously irresponsible on her part. If she's mad at me from the last time she talked - I don't understand why she is taking it out on her son. Trying not to guess at the situation without knowing what's up, my mind is just racing.

Since I've had time to calm down about her not being here - I'm deciding that I'm just going to have more fun with my son. I cannot control her decisions towards him, and if she's going to be this irresponsible and immature, the best place for him to be is with me anyway.


How wonderful Ins. I am so delighted you have reached this understanding
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Still struggling today. I am so torn on how to move forward. Hope is fading. I know one of the rules is to never give up no matter how dark, but sometimes things feel pitch black. Here is the letter I wrote in counseling, hopefully it will help some of you understand my sich or even help you in some way:

To whom it may concern,

I am writing this letter as a means to say goodbye to my old relationship. Although it pains me to do so, it is in my best interests to leave that relationship in the past and move on to become a better man and a better father.

When I think about the reasons my relationship ended, I think about my behavior and what kind of person I became because of it. I became a very negative person, partially through my own bad habits, but partially because I felt that I could never make my wife happy enough. In the future, I am going to work towards being more positive and confident in myself. I want to appreciate the good in life.

I also think about how jealous and overbearing I became. Being jealous is normal when you love someone, but I took it to a place of being controlling and not allowing her to live her life. I realize now that I have to accept the things I can not change and let people make their own decisions in life.

I think about how complacent and lazy I became during the relationship. Bad habits played a part in this as well, but so too did my behaviors. I thought that since we were married and had a child that I did not have to work so hard anymore. I realize now that I should have tried much harder to make my wife happy, that I should have made more of an effort to sacrifice "rest" to spend time together.

I have so many regrets about who I have been, the choices I have made that hurt my family, and the ways that I treated my wife. But I cannot change the past, I can only work towards changing the future. I no longer have any hope that my marriage can or will be saved, but I can still make improvements to my life to become a better person. I must improve so that my son can have a good role model for a father, so he can have someone to look up to.

So goodbye. Goodbye to my old relationship. Goodbye to the overwhelming negativity and cynical person I was. Goodbye to being controlling, overbearing and manipulative. Goodbye to being selfish, lazy, and complacent. Goodbye to my bad habits.

But "hello" to a new me. "Hello" to looking at the bright side of things and finding rays of light in a storm. "Hello" to accepting people as they are and letting them live their lives. "Hello" to living life for my family, making sacrifices for the ones I love, and always striving to make the people I love feel appreciated, and making sure they know I love them.

- lonelyship


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ins, these are not rules but guidelines. Not all of them will apply to all of us, if what you are doing does not work, try a new approach, do a 180. For example NC does not work with my H because H claims I was distant during M with him. So detatchment was better.

Ins, this is an important letter and thank you for sharing with us, it tells us so much about you and describes exactly how you feel. Beautifully written too.

For my perspective, I would like you to forgive yourself and let go. Nothing you could have done or said excuses W wayward behaviour. That is her own choice and whilst each of us contributes to our sitches with our actions, the growth in improving our minds and lives will ensure we move on and develop new and better behaviours and thoughts. I am very sure this will be Ins, as for one so young your insights are truly remarkable.

No one makes another person happy enough, they do this for themselves, all we can do for another is to provide the environment for change, growth and love. It is not our job to make another happy.

You are spot on, the past can not change, we can not undo a single thing we did, unsay a single thing we said, the past is the past and it is gone. Truly your old M is gone, if W and Ins begin to piece their relationship back together (and I really want that for you and your lovely S). Then a new better M will be in the making.
Take care
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/21/14 09:03 AM.

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Hello all. I hope everyone is having a wonderful holiday.

Last night, I went to pick up S and W was already mad when I got there. The first thing she asked was about what we were going to do this weekend about S. I told her I think she should take him on Fri/Sat and she flipped out. I told her I had already made plans. She said I was punishing her for last weekend, and to an extent, maybe I was. I do feel in my heart that she needs to spend more time with S, and truly, I am exhausted. I need a little help and a little time to myself. I know how it sounds - I feel like a terrible father. But all I'm asking for is one weekend. She started cursing at me and generally just being nasty. I tried my best to stay calm. She kept saying how I was pushing her by trying to make her take son. I truly don't understand why she has to be so narcissistic about it. Was I upset about last weekend? Sure I was. But it's not about her - it's about what I need and what I feel S needs (to spend more time with his mother).

Finally, I give her the present I got her. It was actually just a present for a her and son, a kids book about mommies and how they had the best hugs. Thought long and hard about if I wanted to get her anything - decided that a book for her and S to read together wouldn't be so bad. Chose the book because she was so upset about what I had said and still feeling like she was a bad mom. Maybe I shouldn't have got her the book or any present - but it's Christmas and I thought it would make her feel better.

When I left - I did say something to her. I told her that I didn't understand why she had to be so mean to me. That I understood that she was mad at me but that I had been nothing but nice to her during this time. I said it because I was hurting. I didn't say it angrily, but I felt tears welling up as I said the words. She looked...abashed? After that I silently walked to the car with S and drove away.

She sent me a text minutes later saying thank you for the gift, apologized for being grumpy but that she was upset about how I was keeping score. I didn't reply. She is right that I am keeping score. But not because I want less time with S, because I feel that what is best for him is to spend some time with his mother. I don't know what to do. I have such a great respect for parents who can do it alone.

Today, I am just trying to make it through the holiday. I am going to do my best to be cheerful around family, and to have a good time. I have a heavy heart - and I wish my family was whole.

To anyone that might be reading this today - I truly hope that you have a great holiday and can find peace in your hearts. I am so thankful for the kind and caring folks on this board that have helped me so much in this difficult time.


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You are definitely a fantastic young father. If you truly feel that S needs time with W then this is a boundary not an emotional issue. You have my admiration as I see you do a marvellous job. It's delightful to hear about.

This need not be a matter of 'keeping score' and I would suggest you can approach it as agreeing a schedule which works for your son. W is wayward and will try to guilt you into feeling like a poor father, but this is clearly not the position. I recollect on HPs thread there was an online diary suggested by Starksky.

Things will ease as S grows older. Ideally you need to be part of a single parent group where more experienced parents can help with some of the issues you will find. You will find this very useful and supportive to know all parents get tired. Single parents often help each other in practical ways too.

However Ins you are clearly the more stable parent here so I suspect for a while despite tiredness you will need to carry more of the burden. This is not easy, I wonder if you are eating properly yourself and resting too.

The Xmas present was spot on, what a lovely present. Excellent DB.

Ins W should not be rude to you and you did well to point that out. It would be stronger if you stated this as a boundary issue, but you will need to be specific say what you need to say the move on. 'W I felt that when you said "xxxxx' that you were trying tone hurtful, and I know that I am being the best parent that I can be. I want us to be civil to each other for the sake of S.'

If this rudeness continues please post and I am sure we can help with some scripts.

I will find the Starsky link for you and post.
Have a wonderful Xmas and (((((hugs to Ins and S))))))))
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Are you ok Ins?

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Hey, Vanilla. Thank you for the advice, as always. To answer your question: Yes, I am doing great.

To update on sich: Not much has changed. But I felt that our recent interactions have been very positive. She texted to ask about when I would pick up S the other day and was very kind to me. She even made a couple of jokes and told me about some words she thought she'd heard him say, and sent me a funny picture she'd taken of him. I told her that it was great and then cut off the conversation. When I went to pick him up, she invited me in and I got his shoes and coat on. We discussed the schedule for the week and it was very easy and agreeable. Took maybe 30 seconds to work out the details and then I gave her a high five. I got in the driver's seat of car as she was strapping in S, and told her my new favorite joke. It's a corny dad joke and she said "OH MY GOD." and told S she was sorry that she "had to leave him with this cheeseball (me)." I got a kick out of her reaction. I have been thinking about her less and less, which scares me. At the same time, I think its good because sometimes I think I can feel my heart healing.

One thing I feel I should update the forum on: I met someone. When out with some friends at a restaurant, I ran into a girl from high school that was working. I asked how things were going with her S (he is 2, about the same age as mine). I asked if she was still with the father and she said no. Told her we should get the boys together for a playdate as I think my son would love to have a friend his age. Got to texting her and it turns out that she is also a LBS, and that her SO left her 5 days before W left me. It is so nice to have someone to talk to about everything that understands (besides the wonderful folks on here of course!) She is also in counseling. It is really crazy how much we have in common. She invited me to a small party at her home this week and I adjusted the schedule with W specifically so I could go. Tonight, she also asked me out on a date and I told her I would love to go.

I am taking things very slowly with this because I know we are both in difficult positions. She knows about my feelings for W/sich and she has told me that she is still in love with her SO. So immediately, I know the dangers of the situation. If nothing comes of it and she returns to SO, then I truly would be happy for her. Since I know first hand what it feels like to be in that kind of situation in a relationship, I would completely understand. I feel we have both been very honest with each other. At the same time, I would be lying if I said I didn't like her. I think it is good for me to have someone that understands the pain I'm going through, if nothing more as a friend. And, to be honest, I am really looking forward to taking her out because I haven't been on a date in so long and she is such a sweet girl.

Not getting any hopes up, but sailing towards the light.
- lonelyship


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This means you have moved to LRT. You may want to read this in DB and on the board. It's striking that as you detach then W advances a little. I am not an expert on LRT there are others with more advice, I merely flirted with the idea very briefly.

I am pleased you have play dates for S and yourself. I am concerned for your vulnerability and the speed of moving on and clearly the best thing for S is his mum and dad together. Ideally you need a support group around you of mixed age single parents who are more seasoned. I still recommend this as well. You are young and want to move on with your life but there is time. Don't rush things.

W seems to be warmer and that bodes well for your joint parenting of S.

We are here when you post.
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/30/14 09:46 AM.

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Vanilla,

I have read about LRT in DR. It is what I have been trying to employ since she left. I am not sure she is advancing as much as she is responding to my plea that she be nicer to me during this time. There has still been no relationship talk. There have been no signs of reconciliation.

You are right when you say the best thing for S is mom and dad together. I would love for that to happen - although that is not something I view as realistic right now. It is not in my control. Of course I want my W back and my family whole, but I have seen nothing from her that indicates that is what she wants.

I will look into a single parent support group - I think that is a fantastic idea.

I have been toying with the idea of fate lately. I can't remember where I read it (it may have even been MWD) but I read something about getting over a divorce that mentioned, "There may be someone else in the world that needs you more."


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Ins,

Hiya! smile I'm Wonka and read your thread because I admire a mature 22-year old stepping up and doing some hard lifting to improve himself. Many 22-year olds are a lot more interested in keeping score on how many Silver Bullets they can down at one time on a Saturday night at some young people's bar where men and women neck out in a restroom stall.

I want to disabuse you of the notion that a reconciliation can happen in a month's time as you just lamented above in your post. I've been around the boards for a long time and the shortest reconciliation time was approximately 8 months. Even that is a rarity. Generally speaking, it typically occurs about 1 to 2 years of hoard core DBing. Mind you, it is not a guarantee.

It always comes down to the free-will choices of both parties to reconcile or not. However, your actions DO have influence on your WAW.

Remember this is a marathon...not the 50-yard dash.


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Hey Wonka! Thanks for reading my thread and thank you for the words of encouragement!

Yes, I believe I have been impatient. I think this is due to my feelings of anger and rejection. My mantra throughout has been "Forever is a long time." in hopes that W will see my actions and that I am trying to become a person, one that she wants to be with. I have accepted my responsibility for the actions that caused W to leave and have taken steps to improve. However, I am still very angry that she would leave in the first place. I sometimes think that W and I have different values in life (I would have never given up on my family, and she didn't even try counseling). I feel she is acting very selfishly and I feel like I have been deceived.

Like you said, there are no guarantees. She may never come back. I have accepted that I am staring down the barrel of the divorce gun. I have accepted that.

I believe you when you say that my actions do have an effect on W. What advice would you give me concerning my new friend in a similar situation?

Last edited by lnlyshp; 12/30/14 08:54 PM.

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If you reread DR and marriage myths of course you and W have different values and outlooks.

The anger is very important to manage as that comes from fear itself and possibly shame. The element to take into account is resentment as that will keep getting in the way. With your IC I would tackle this as it is often a big issue and can be very frightening to deal with by spouses. Disappointment, lack of love and attraction can all be handled between two; but anger is debilitating. Your anger is understandable and natural and no blame by having this. But detachment is better as it will give you space.

You probably have been decieved, lied to, manipulated and lots of other things too some you may never know about! But DB is about getting on for you.

Frankly your new friend is a friend with a child of similar age and I would leave it at that, otherwise you invite unpleasantness from W. I would prefer you had a mix of single parent friends so you can get different views and who could object to you joining a single parents group? Keep it light and very very breezy.

As always

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/30/14 10:48 PM.

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Didn't have S last night so I went to the bar with a couple of friends. Its been a while since I've had a night out, so that was fun. Got a little drunk so my friend drove me home. Woke up early as W was dropping off S, she asks where my car was. I play dumb and say "Oh no! My car! Where is it?!" as I was just trying to be playful. I think I came off too obnoxious and she got upset with me. I was just trying to make a joke, I will have to watch that in the future.

Texted "thank you for dropping him off. sorry, i didn't mean to upset you." She responded "yep". She explained that she was worried I had got into a car crash or something and the way I joked made her upset. I mean, I get that I came off as rude but its not like I was being intentionally mean to her (like she is to me).

The whole shtick is getting real old. I don't want to give up but I'm getting really sick of being treated like I'm the worst person on the earth. I realize I can't change her attitude, but I'm still having trouble detaching and not hanging on every one of her words and feelings.


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Thornton reconciled in 2-3 months...

TO324 reconciled in 6 months....


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lnlyshp - It's been awhile. I tried to catch up on your story. May 2015 bring you all that you seek!!!

Originally Posted By: lnlyshp

My mantra throughout has been "Forever is a long time."

I'm interested... Why did you choose this mantra? Why does this speak to you?

Originally Posted By: lnlyshp
Texted "thank you for dropping him off. sorry, i didn't mean to upset you." She responded "yep". She explained that she was worried I had got into a car crash or something and the way I joked made her upset. I mean, I get that I came off as rude but its not like I was being intentionally mean to her (like she is to me).

Are you detaching? How do you think you're doing?

Originally Posted By: lnlyshp

I don't want to give up but I'm getting really sick of being treated like I'm the worst person on the earth. I realize I can't change her attitude, but I'm still having trouble detaching and not hanging on every one of her words and feelings.


I think DB & DR both talk to this point. I definitely have felt this way. I made a promise to myself, that it isn't over until I want it to be. In other words, hope is mine to let go or to hang on. Your child will be happier with Mom and Dad under the same roof in a happy, compassionate, respectful relationship. Something I had to think about is that my W loved me enough to marry me, and what we had was no mistake. However, things changed over time and I showed her a glimpse into her future and reinforced that this was the right decision. I no longer give her any ammo for that frame of mind. I focus on the process not the outcome.

I hope some of this is applicable for you.

Last edited by mahhhty; 01/03/15 03:21 AM.

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Quote:
However, things changed over time and I showed her a glimpse into her future and reinforced that this was the right decision. I no longer give her any ammo for that frame of mind. I focus on the process not the outcome.


Great advice!


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mahhhhty my man, great to hear from you again. Thanks for the advice. I gotta catch up on your sich as well.

"Forever is a long time." I chose this mantra because, although she is firm on no reconciliation now, her feelings may change in the future. The idea that we will never be together again is one that I obviously have trouble accepting, so I tell myself that just because things are bad now, it doesn't mean that they will be this way forever.

I go back and forth on detachment. Some days I feel that I'm doing well and beginning to "let her go", other days like today, I wake up incredibly depressed because I know we will be trading S and I don't look forward to those meetings anymore.

Quote:
However, things changed over time and I showed her a glimpse into her future and reinforced that this was the right decision. I no longer give her any ammo for that frame of mind. I focus on the process not the outcome.


Can you explain a little bit more what you mean by this? By "right decision", you're talking about getting married, correct? What frame of mind did you stop giving ammo for?

- lonelyship


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Ahhh... I understand the Forever is a Long Time now. That is a good frame of mind, and that reinforces the idea of hope. I think thats a great mindset.

Quote:
Some days I feel that I'm doing well and beginning to "let her go", other days like today, I wake up incredibly depressed because I know we will be trading S and I don't look forward to those meetings anymore.


I felt this way on days there is a transition (a kid swap). However, I now look at that time (however short it may be) as an opportunity. Many people have reiterated on my post that one of the best things we can do as fathers, is show how much we love and care for our children, really become immersed in their lives and become as active as possible. Use these "transitions" to show her how happy you are (even if you must fake it) and how much you love to see your S.

Quote:
Can you explain a little bit more what you mean by this? By "right decision", you're talking about getting married, correct? What frame of mind did you stop giving ammo for?


The Mrs. and I were going through a rough patch, but I was withdrawn and passive. I didn't effectively help address our issues, nor did I change for the better. I ended up changing for the worse and becoming more withdrawn. Therefore, when she thought the D was an option I was showing her the worst of me, not the best. Hence I reinforced her decision and showed her it was the correct one to make (the decision being the D). Now I am totally turning that stuff around, I no longer show her any poor qualities of myself in person. The little interaction we have, I prepare for, I cut my hair, wear cologne, dress nice, I get my mind right, I don't get in conversations that I can't handle in person or in front of the munchkins, I leave my phone in the car so I can be active with the kids and with her, I treat her and the kids with care and compassion, I leave on my terms like I have places to be with people who want to spend time with me. I am showing her the best of me. Therefore, I am not giving her any ammo to justify a D. All of these things help me become the me I want to be <- this is what I mean about focusing on the process and not the outcome... In a way I think this confuses her. B/C here we are on the edge of D, and I am the outgoing, compassionate person she fell for.

I started doing this b/c I researched "Love Languages" and determined which ones speak to her. Then I incorporated that behavior into every transition time.

Does that make sense?

Thats a lot about what I am doing, but hopefully there is something(s) in there that can work for you!

Last edited by mahhhty; 01/03/15 11:19 PM.

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This is a slow process not a fast one.

Keep the DB process and this will improve you and your life. You are doing well Ins for yourself and your S.

Vanilla


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mahhhty, I understand now. Thank you for the insight. That is one thing I need to work on as well. I need to stop "giving her ammo". I also need to focus more on the process instead of dwelling on the outcome. That's a tough mindset to wrap my head around, but I understand the logic. "Love Languages" also seems like a great book for me. Thanks for the advice, my friend.

Vanilla, I hope you're right. Sometimes I feel like, although I am getting healthy physically, I am not emotionally healing as I should. I still allow her bad attitudes and occasional rudeness affect my emotions, which I know is a no-no. Detaching is a very tough process for me. I feel like I have reached a plateau sometimes, that this is the best it is ever going to be.


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Detaching is a process Ins. Like a. Muscle it gets stronger with use and practice.

This too will pass, and everything shifts.

Regards
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You ok Ins?

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Hi vanilla.

I'm doing okay, I suppose. Just no movement in any direction with W. Positive interactions when we exchange S but nothing from her that tells me she wants anything to change. I think she likes things better this way - having the freedom of being single, only having to watch S on certain days.

Not sure what else to do. I am still working in the gym, I am still in counseling (although I have gone from weekly to biweekly visits in order to have more to talk about), I am still trying to GAL. And yes, I am still talking with my new friend.

Don't really know where or how to go from here besides to keep on keeping on.

- ship


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This is still very early stages of DB. DB will make you a stronger and more capable father. I am glad things are more peaceful for you even if that is less eventful with W.

Keep posting to us as eventually things will move on to a new place.

It's great news on the GAL, it will help you move on.

Have you had the exam results yet? How did that go? When is the end of your student days?

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Thank you for the encouragement, Vanilla. I did well in all my classes, I start again later this month. Thank you for asking.

Negative interaction with W today. The NFL playoffs were on today and I had made plans to leave my house around 10:30 (the first game started at 11, I'm in Mountain time). I didn't think this would be a problem as I picked him up at 10:30 yesterday and that is our typical exchange time during the weekends. She got upset because she wanted to go to the grocery store first (which honestly she could have done yesterday on her day away from S, but I didn't bring that up). I told her I would appreciate if she picked him up before then or I could even drop him off if that made it easier for her. She got annoyed and left to pick him up.

When she got here, we got him set up in the car and I told her I needed to talk to her. Told her I can no longer be the bad guy in this situation. That it wasn't fair that she hears one thing that she doesn't like and shuts off all conversation. Told her I can not go for the rest of my life walking away from exchanging son feeling bad about myself. Told her that her saying something hurtful to me and then walking off is not conducive to a good relationship. She responded that "we've never had a good relationship." Told her that was a hurtful thing to say, that I didn't agree and that she married me for a reason besides having a S, but that I wasn't about to try and change her mind. Told her that even if that was true, that we need to have a good relationship now for S sake. Eventually got fed up and told her that I would pick him up later tonight and walked away (as I could feel myself feeling very hurt and angry).

She texted and said she was sorry, that I was right that we do need to try and have a good relationship, that she was just having a bad day and that's why she was being nasty. She also said that we need to talk about where we are going and possibly about putting S in daycare because she feels he needs consistency in his routine. I didn't reply. She texted later and asked what time I'm picking him up. Still haven't replied to that one, either. I am too angry right now to communicate with her.

I like the thought about daycare, but as I am not working, I'm not sure I will be able to pay half and still pay rent to my family and various bills.

I do not like the idea of us talking about "where we are going", as I'm sure I know what that conversation entails (divorce). I realize that it is a necessary discussion, but I dread having it none the less. I need to think about responses rather than reactions.

I don't know what to do. I've gone to the gym already to try and work out anger. Didn't work. Still frustrated. Still can't understand how she can say "We've always had a bad relationship." Can't stand her attitude. I want her out of my life, but I know that is not possible.

I know I am not doing very good at DB. I respect everyone that does - because you must have so much patience.

- ship


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Posts: 8,855
ins
You may not see this but you are doing well. Better than you see yourself doing and because we are impartial notice how things are. You achieved the required result an acknowledgement that handover interactions need to improve. Seems good to me.

It is absolutely correct to define your boundaries, when W says something which is inconsistent with your behaviour then you can define the boundary. There are many wonderful examples on the site of enforcing boundaries.

You can start with an I statement and then proceed with describing the behaviour which gives you concern and then a consequence. Ins check out some of the detachment discussions here on the board.

Your thread is approaching 100 posts and will lock. It would be best to start a new one before it does. You can link back to your old thread. A new thread is an important milestone, especially your first as it shows you are serious in your DB efforts. It is clear that you are learning and working your sitch very well.

Anger is very difficult to resolve and is yet another step in the process. Becoming more detached will reduce the anger. Ins you are a role model for young fathers and your connection with your son will be lifelong. Detach to achieve your goals to enable co parenting your little S.

Your student years are precious and will end soon enough, so I am pleased your exams went well despite the difficulties.

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 01/11/15 11:34 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 89
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lnlyshp Offline OP
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Took a big step today (to me anyway) by logging onto FB for the first time since she left and updating my relationship status. Saw she had changed her name (deleted my last name). I felt as if keeping my status as "Married to W" was lying to myself in a way. I also unfriended her and plan to speak to her about this in time to explain that it is not an act of anger but rather something that I need to do in order to move on.

Posted a short status explaining that she and I are no longer together, that we have not been since November, and thanking everyone who has supported me during this difficult time.

I am not sure this is the right move to "save" my relationship, but this was more about me. I don't want to go the rest of my life being afraid of logging onto FB. I'm not a big user anyway but it is a nice tool to stay in contact with old friends.

It is time to accept that W is STBXW.

Like I read in the detachment thread, it is time to let her go, work on myself and say a prayer to the universe that one day we will find our way back to each other.

- ship


Me 23, Her 21
1S 2
M <1yr, T 7
WAW: She moved out 11/15/2014
She started D process 1/29/15
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
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Ins

Detachment is about letting go of the outcome but generally different to letting go of the person.

If you wish to use FB (I confess not my choice), then change your status. Unfriending W Can be a good move for detachment. It is more the comments you make that can be damaging, FB is very public. So be careful, because what you write is not anonymous and can be interpreted in many ways. So be sure what you write is not seen as vegeneful. It is best to always take the high road, and see everything in the best light possible on these public forums. It is hard to reverse this and future employers, partners and friends can research you through FB.

You can be Ins and still be detached, you can do this for you. The Ins I know is gentler and more positive. I would like you to present yourself in this way to the world, through FB as I see Ins.
Vanilla


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
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Detaching is one thing but posting your situation for all the world to see is a bad idea. I would delete that post if I were you.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Posts: 977
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lnlyship - How are things going?


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 89
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lnlyshp Offline OP
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Hey mahhhty, I actually moved to a new thread.

Located here:

a young man with hope II


Me 23, Her 21
1S 2
M <1yr, T 7
WAW: She moved out 11/15/2014
She started D process 1/29/15
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