If not, then stop threatening to D or throwing out the D word.
We all say here that it is crucial to put the onus of a D on the WAS and let them do the legwork. If they want to separate, let them move out since they're the ones that want to do so. You seem want to stick to your guns on below items, right?
-Not live in an open M -Staying inside your marital home -No MC counseling until A is over -No friendship while in A -Focus on logistics exchanges as necessary as they relate to son -You will not allow marital assets to be used to fund A -Your W can take the car or bus to work since she wanted to separate -No more helping W with her projects or rescuing/fixing her
If not, then stop threatening to D or throwing out the D word.
We all say here that it is crucial to put the onus of a D on the WAS and let them do the legwork. If they want to separate, let them move out since they're the ones that want to do so. You seem want to stick to your guns on below items, right?
-Not live in an open M -Staying inside your marital home -No MC counseling until A is over -No friendship while in A -Focus on logistics exchanges as necessary as they relate to son -You will not allow marital assets to be used to fund A -Your W can take the car or bus to work since she wanted to separate -No more helping W with her projects or rescuing/fixing her
Yes thank you Wonka. Your list is exactly right. No R talks too, though, right? No I do not want a divorce. I can certainly stick to the above non-negotiables.
Me: 44 W: 45 S: 11 Married: 15 Together: 18 BD: 9/29/2014 OM discovered: 10/16/2014 I left her behind: 12/14/2014
I know you have some veterans here giving you some good advice but there are a few things that stand out to me.
W: Now I'm here with her text response... "Separating doesn't mean we don't work together or go to counseling."
1) To me this does not necessarily mean work on your marriage or marriage counseling. It could simply mean that you will need to work together possibly go to counseling in order to co-parent.
2) You come across as a spoiled brat who isn't getting what you want on your terms. Look I get it, your W is involved with someone else and there needs to be boundaries. But I would ask if what you're doing is working. You are doing some good things, but it seems that some of what you're doing is pushing her further away. She in the past few days has gone from sleeping in your bed to the couch, to deciding that a separation is the way to go. Is that what you wanted? I apologize if I'm missing something, I'm just an outsider listening to your side of the story.
3) Have you seen an attorney? As much as I don't want a D I did force myself to have a consultation with and attorney so I knew what my rights were. You are talking about marital assets and a family car, you might want to figure out how that works.
Me-44 (45) H- 50 (51) M-'96
S-18(20)D-15(17)D-12(14)
BD Feb 2014 (he works overseas) home Oct(sep rooms) (EAs possible Pa's unconfirmed) insists wants D through July 2015 no more talk of D since
I know you have some veterans here giving you some good advice but there are a few things that stand out to me.
W: Now I'm here with her text response... "Separating doesn't mean we don't work together or go to counseling."
1) To me this does not necessarily mean work on your marriage or marriage counseling. It could simply mean that you will need to work together possibly go to counseling in order to co-parent.
Hello lost18. Thank you for your comments. Yes you are exactly right. By work together she means work on her new business venture. By counseling she means MC. Sometimes she says she wants us to go to MC only to see if she wants to work on our M. Sometimes she says she does not want to work on the M but will go to MC for co-parenting. Sometimes she says she wants MC for us to learn to be kind through her separation idea. She has not said she is committed to saving our M as she has A going. She has said once or twice when she was sad and we were better together that we took vows so we should explore every possibility. What she says depends on her mood (icy or sad).
2) You come across as a spoiled brat who isn't getting what you want on your terms. Look I get it, your W is involved with someone else and there needs to be boundaries. But I would ask if what you're doing is working. You are doing some good things, but it seems that some of what you're doing is pushing her further away. She in the past few days has gone from sleeping in your bed to the couch, to deciding that a separation is the way to go. Is that what you wanted? I apologize if I'm missing something, I'm just an outsider listening to your side of the story.
True I have taken things personally and pushed to get control of the sitch my way. One of my W's issues with me is that I let her wear the pants way too often. She will not be attracted to me again unless I frustrate her and appear decisive and resolute in this process. Also, yes it was a nice few weeks when she was in my bed and we were friends. But, all the while she was in this A and disrespecting me. If I had not brought OM up again b/c I was so happy for just that taste of her attention, she would have seen me as weaker than she does now. I gave her a chance to end it, she said she would, she did not. Consequences. Plus, she always wanted separation. Every time I acted up she would threaten it to keep control. It would have been great for her if I made her comfortable until she had the money to move. But, again, that's not attractive. Finally, yes I took things personally and got angry and made big mistakes. Even so, I'm good here where she moved herself to the couch and knows I'm not a push-over vs her sleeping in my bed with me entertaining her while she texts/sees OM.
3) Have you seen an attorney? As much as I don't want a D I did force myself to have a consultation with and attorney so I knew what my rights were. You are talking about marital assets and a family car, you might want to figure out how that works.
No I have not seen an attorney. Honestly I'm not there yet. I'm angry with my wife yes ... but I think I'm the only one who's said divorce. I believe she would take a way back here if I could provide a good one. She doesn't believe I can now and that's OK. I'm learning and growing and thankful for this chance to be better. Besides, we have more debt than anything else. At least she wants to work with me on that. I just have to lead. She only really listens when I lead.
Last edited by HPoirot; 11/21/1412:11 AM.
Me: 44 W: 45 S: 11 Married: 15 Together: 18 BD: 9/29/2014 OM discovered: 10/16/2014 I left her behind: 12/14/2014
I saw Rzrback had an epiphany today. Maybe I had one too...
I came here to save my marriage. Reading a lot of the sitches here, I saw many talking about fog and PEAs and addiction when talking about the A. I first thought this was a convenient way to frame this... like your WAS is ill so that makes your pain easier... easier to feel compassion for your WAS. I rejected that... I felt my W is to blame for her wrongness. She is killing me and I took it personally. And then everything I've done since happened. Now I have to climb out of a hole to get back to re-connecting with her again.
But, I had an affair. I know what it's like to feel trapped and depressed and cold and lonely and sad in your life. And then, the next minute, like a bolt of lightning hits you and the world completely changes. Words on your mobile phone make your head swim. To hear someone's voice is the only thing you can think about. And then to see the person.
My W spent everyday for the last 8 years stressed out about bills, her son's ADD, expensive tuition, expensive rent, no money, back taxes, her mother's illness, her stepfather's strokes, her larger family problems, her job, her student loans, a dying and smelly cat, a house constantly in need of cleaning, her growing dependence on alcohol, her failing back and legs, her age, her fading dreams, self centered friends... and a depressed good man of a husband who seemed to settle for status quo. Trapped and depressed and cold and lonely and sad in her life.
I have not really tried to look at this from W's point of view. With all the above burdens and more crushing her spirit... another man came and gave her attention. She can leave behind all of the above through him. To her, I am all of the above that she runs from. I'm making that view of me worse by fighting, avoiding, and being angry.
So, framing is a good thing. It can make something impossible look possible by just trying to understand and changing your attitude. When I first thought of this in the car... I felt at peace for a few minutes. Maybe, when my W gets back, I can be the better me who understands the above and can be sympathetic and patient. My W is going through a hard hard time. She is sick with all the pressure on her. At the same time, there is joy that she can't deny. Can I put aside my needs for months if needed to smooth the road home whenever she's ready to take it if ever? Because, for almost 20 years this woman has been my best friend. She has carried me in my sadness for 8 years. She sent me to see another woman to help me feel better and I came back. Can I be strong enough now, to step back and let her find her way back too?
I've taken this all so personally so far. This is not about me. This is about her. I can love and support her by being a strong enough man to put his needs aside for a while and just make a better place for her (and me) to land.
This is what I learned.
Good post, true insights. Don't backslide and forget this!
THIS^^ rings true to me. I hope it is true for you, and I hope you remember this every time you want to focus on how hurt YOU are and when you forget about the inconvenient parts of Your past.
DBing is about many things INCLUDING empathy. What you are describing above, is simply that...Empathy!
Empathy for the woman who was your best friend for decades.
When you are tempted to think about your pain and YOUR loss and how you want to set your boundaries(!!!).....
I hope you will think about your affair and how SHE must have felt, knowing your "real love" -- was NOT for her...ad remember the questions I asked you about how You came out of the affair and chose your wife,
(without any "boundaries" from your wife!)
You two may even find each other again. I really hope so. I cannot imagine it happening without EMPATHY - and I think it's great for you to see this.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
My W is in an A with OM that she does not want to give up. I understand why her A happened and why she does not want to give it up. I love and miss my W. She says she does not want me or a life with me. After everything that's happened in this sitch, I can see how she could think it's impossible for us to be in love again. She says she is thinking about what she wants to do and needs space. I cannot change her. I can only change myself and smooth the road her her to come back if she ever wants to.
Five hours from now my W comes home from her trip. What do I do today to smooth the road?
She wants to sit and talk. She has a plan she wants to follow. She's asking me questions like she wants my agreement. I have stated my boundaries clearly and she knows them.
So today I STFU and listen and validate. If there's anything that doesn't work for me... I just say "That doesn't work for me." and state the rest briefly. No speeches.
If she needs an answer on something, I say "Thank you for that. I know it's important to you. I'll think about it and get right back to you."
Today she may try to hurt me more. She has calmly and evenly said many hurtful things to me when she is cold, focused, and trying to get her way. She will be that way today. This is where calmly taking ice cold showers help. I just stand tall and take the shower.
These are the worst and best days of my life. I don't have to like this. I just have to do this.
...
If you have some to give... please send me your words of encouragement today. They would help me greatly.
And if you know my sitch and think I'm wrong here, please let me know. It would help me better understand.
Thank you all again for this board, your support, and your incredible advice.
Time for an ice cold shower.
Wish me luck.
Onward.
Last edited by HPoirot; 11/21/1412:25 PM.
Me: 44 W: 45 S: 11 Married: 15 Together: 18 BD: 9/29/2014 OM discovered: 10/16/2014 I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Hi HP, I have been following your story and I think you are on the right track. I think you have a good idea for how to handle your W when she comes home and wants to talk.
She needs to go on her path right now, as you said. I think if you can have that attitude while you talk with her, it will be helpful. If you can give off energy that says "I let you go to find your way" then I think the more likely it is that she will come back to you. There's something about that freedom. If she feels she has to struggle against you, struggle to get away from you, she will fight, she will do hurtful things and she will run. But if you calmly "open the cage door" she might not fly away, or at least not too far.
It's almost like you have to accept that she is gone before she really goes.
Good luck with your talk with her today. Keep us posted!
-Keep your head straight. -Stay calm. -You are entitled to your opinions if you disagree. -Not everything will be solved in one talk. -If you sense things will escalate, say you both need to step back and you will talk only when both of you are civil.
-Don't criticize W. -Don't even acknowledge the OM. -Keep your voice calm and firm. -No mudslinging.
Not much to add that others haven't already said, and that you don't seem to have your own good grip on already, just this:
I would start this "new you" thing by NOT being immediately available to "sit and talk" when she gets back from her trip. That is HER agenda, HER timeline. You are a mysterious, interesting, BUSY guy . . . remember?
"Yeah, I need to discuss some things with you too, but today isn't good for me and tomorrow is nuts. How about Sunday afternoon about 4?" (or whatever)
You can't stop her from delivering her script to you, but you do not have to meet her "gotta-do-it-now" timeline.
