Newcomer Living in Hell 2

[bravo61]

wondering if the ramifications of D is starting to cross W mind. the other day she mentioned how she was going to have to "figure something out" when it comes to getting a house in the area we live. she makes good money but not enough to be able to stay in the same area by herself. she looked kinda stressed and she HATES living in that apartment. i didn't say a word just listened. i know my S really wants to stay at the same school and was grousing that if W didn't leave me we could pay for a house. didn't respond to that either just said that his mom was doing the best she can.

[labug]

i don't involve my kids. its hard sometimes when they ask me questions but i always respond with positive things to say about their mother (even when its hard sometimes). i have accepted responsibility for my part (even more than my part) but it is difficult to see the kids pain that comes as a direct decision on her part. i did not choose this and i do not support this. ergo, i'm not gonnna take ownership of this, but i do not project this to them.

Of course it's hard, many things with kids are hard in some way. But that's what we do as parents. It's good that you're not involving them, my post wasn't accusatory, just stating the facts of what good parenting looks like through this. Cautionary tale, I did do some subtle back stabs and in 26 years of parenting those are the things I wish I could take back.

I went back and read your early posts and I'm curious why or how you've taken responsibility for more than your part?

Were you the sulking, brooding angry person or the explosive, violent angry person? (violent doesn't have to mean against another person, it could be throwing things, punching walls, etc)

It seems your W is probably afraid of you, that's what living with an angry spouse does. Kids living with an angry and/or depressed parent don't do well. Everyone walks on eggshells. This is mind reading but when she moved she most likely noticed the difference in her life with you and her life without you. the eggshells were gone.

It's going to take her a long time to be able to see that that angry man isn't coming back. What are you doing to show her your commitment to change, especially in regards to managing your anger?

I know you said it went away but I would need to see some concrete steps were I in her shoes. She could think this is a Mr Nice Guy act just to get her back and fears that if she lets you in just a little bit angry H will return. I would guess that might have happened once or twice in your M. And that's why her decision to leave you was the last resort. She saw no other way.

And now she's thinking "Why did it take me leaving you to get you to change? I don't want to continue in a situation where everything has to go to this extent."

I was the depressed angry person in my M so I'm speaking from my experience. I wasn't violent, I didn't yell and scream or break things. Mine was the silent but deadly type, just as destructive. My H still had feelings for me but he didn't want to because he'd had enough. He shut that part of himself off. He went so NC on me you would have thought he wrote the DB book.

He had to see real change and continued commitment to change in order to even be in the same room with me.

And it did take him leaving for me to change, really change. We had had the discussion before and I said things would change. It never lasted because I wasn't committed to it. You could say I hadn't hit bottom.

I finally saw that I was the negative force in my life, no one but me. I had to change for me, not to get my M back, but to get my life back.

Maybe this is your bottom. I hope so, because your life can be so much better.

I know you're hurting now but you have power here. The greatest power we have is, we control our lives.

What are you doing consistently to be the man you need and want to be? You had a lot of trauma in your past, how are you dealing with that?

You can do this, it's not easy but most things that are worth anything, aren't easy.

Hang in there.

[labug]

I wanted to add that even tho I said this is mindreading

she most likely noticed the difference in her life with you and her life without you. the eggshells were gone.

it's also common.

My H dropped the final bomb after I came home from a 10 day mission trip to Honduras. I knew something was different the minute I saw him in the airport.

[bravo61]

bug thanks for commenting.
i have been in therapy since early july (2014) to be a better me. i've learned that i didn't deserve the treatment that i got as a child. i felt that it was something wrong with me instead of issues with my parents. i have never been violent but yelled in fights but never threatened, punched walls, etc. she did feel as if she was on egg shells. i've realized that all the things that would happen that i would get upset about JUST DON"T MATTER!
i guess that means that i have hit rock bottom. in spite of the "spew" i've gotten from her since i've been here, i haven't raised my voice one time but truly have tried to see her point. and even when i can't, i realize that those are her feelings and who am i to try to change them. go back and read some of the spew i've gotten-its been bad and no reverting to who i was.

even my C has said that i'm a totally different person. i mentioned to her that i am worried about being bitter towards W. she said that she had no fear of that as "you wouldn't even fit in those clothes anymore".

i had an epithany yesterday. the person my W is right now is not who i want to be with. this relationship does have to die. i deserve better that i have been treated. i could not take her back in the shape she is in right now. i've put/and still putting in the work. basically i'm hoping to keep a small kernel of hope in the shadows of my heart while still moving forward. i do love her (well who she was and could be again) and i hope she finds the woman she once was. for that to happen, she will have to face herself in the mirror and change what needs to change. oddly detaching at an alarming rate.

[labug]

I read your threads and I don't see any spew from your W. Can you point me in the right direction?

I do see lots of mind reading.

i had an epithany yesterday. the person my W is right now is not who i want to be with.

So she lived with an angry person for several years and decided she didn't want to live like that anymore.

You've been at this for a few months and have decided she's not who you want to be with but you can't understand why she walked away from you.

What is it that's she's doing that makes you want to let go?

Who are you? What are your values? What kind of man do you want to be through this?

I think you could take a few days and really think about who you are and who you want to be cause right now, you're all over the place. That's not unusual but it helps to be able to choose a direction and work to get there.

[bravo61]

i do understand why she walked away. intellectually i see it. and the thing is i'm not mad at her for it. it hurts like hell, but i can see her reasoning. i don't understand, however, her belief that people can't and don't change and her willingness to throw away the hope for what our M could be. especially in light that i started making changes before the BD. why not give it a little time to see if its real?

first and foremost, i am a Christian man, a loving father, who is generous and kind and loyal. i believe in surrounding myself with other Christians who will encourage, support, and keep me accountable in my walk.

i do love my W, and i want to have a R with her as i believe that we can work things out. i do want to be wanted though. the aspects of her that have changed for the negative have allowed me to detach.

so far as spew, when the love of your life tells you that she wishes she had kids with someone else, that she was supposed to have a good life, and tells you that she doesn't remember a single good time, that feels like spew to me. maybe i'm wrong though.

she is reflecting and allowing poor influences in her life right now. she only has a couple of days off a week and gets a babysitter to watch the kids so she can go out drinking with her friends. it hurts the kids. her Christian values used to be more a part of her life and her closeness with people of these morals is saddening. she doesn't go to church anymore or say prayers with kids at bedtime. she drinks everyday and its like she's trying to find her 20's. i'm not downing people who choose this lifestyle, but i always respected and cherished her for her strong faith and value system. i pray for my W every day and that He will take away the pain i have caused her. i sincerely want the best for her right now and its ME. i know she can't/won't see that right now, so i'll continue to show her unconditional love while still working to improve myself.

i'm sure all this is confusing and seemingly contradictory but its my story and i'm sticking to it .

[MrBond]

I appreciate your standing for your M. However there are a number of reasonings that you've come to that you should dispel.

When you first got here you posted ... "Over the years I broke her spirit w/my critical nature and anger."

Now you said "years". Not days or weeks, but YEARS. That's why she doesn't believe in your changes. She probably tried to get you to change before or to bring it up to you so you wouldn't keep hurting her, but you didn't listen and probably became even more angry and critical of her.

And now because you've "suddenly" woken up, you expect her to fall back into love with you just because you've made a few cosmetic changes. Doesn't work that way.

All that stuff about you being a Christian man, etc. doesn't mean anything because you only became that after she left. Now suddenly you seem to act holier than thou and see her as a terrible woman when she had to put up with so much over years.

"i sincerely want the best for her right now and its ME."

This comment especially seems very judgmental. She thought that when you first got married, but not any more. A little more humility and compassion on your part will go a long way.

[bravo61]

Mr. Bond,
the realization that i needed to be a better man was not brought on by the BD. i get why it seems as if i'm not humble or compassionate. i have worked hard at being a better man and i'm proud of the work i've put in. i don't think she's a terrible woman but she is not the quality of woman she has been. i don't bring up any of the concerns i have regarding her behavior as its her life. if this is a mistake, its her mistake to make. just as i wasn't the quality of husband she wanted me to be. i truly regret that and i will be a better man the rest of my life. i hope that i get the chance to be a better husband to her.

so far as compassion, i am working on that. i validate every chance i get, and ask about her day and let her know how proud of all her accomplishments i am. i have also asked for forgiveness for all my wrongdoings. i never tried to convice her her memories weren't accurate or minimize her feelings of pain.

with all that said, i can't change the past or force her to forgive me. that has to be a decision she makes and i pray that she makes it. i love my wife. in the past, if someone were to cross me, they would be out of my life (prolly forever). that is something that i decided needed to change before i moved here and made concrete steps to reaching out to those that i had crossed of my list. i never thought that i would be in the position that one of the first people to test that resolve is my W. proudly though, its not a concern of mine as i still love her with all of my heart.

what's the best next step?

[bravo61]

So what's the best next step? I really want to learn from y'all

[labug]

I didn't see an answer to this from my earlier post to you.
"I went back and read your early posts and I'm curious why or how you've taken responsibility for more than your part?"

i do understand why she walked away. intellectually i see it. and the thing is i'm not mad at her for it. it hurts like hell, but i can see her reasoning. i don't understand, however, her belief that people can't and don't change and her willingness to throw away the hope for what our M could be. especially in light that i started making changes before the BD. why not give it a little time to see if its real?

Tell me what you understand about why she left.

I think you are mad and that's to be expected. Anger is an emotions we all have. Denying anger isn't dealing with an anger problem. It just makes it worse.

Have you told her in the past, "I'll change, you'll see. This time will be different"? or something similar.

first and foremost, i am a Christian man, a loving father, who is generous and kind and loyal. i believe in surrounding myself with other Christians who will encourage, support, and keep me accountable in my walk.

That tells me nothing about the man you are or want to be.

i do love my W, and i want to have a R with her as i believe that we can work things out. i do want to be wanted though. the aspects of her that have changed for the negative have allowed me to detach.

You're not detached, far from it.

so far as spew, when the love of your life tells you that she wishes she had kids with someone else, that she was supposed to have a good life, and tells you that she doesn't remember a single good time, that feels like spew to me. maybe i'm wrong though.

When I read the word spew, I expect cursing, anger, emotion, lies.
Why do you think she wishes she had had children with someone else?

she is reflecting and allowing poor influences in her life right now. she only has a couple of days off a week and gets a babysitter to watch the kids so she can go out drinking with her friends. it hurts the kids. her Christian values used to be more a part of her life and her closeness with people of these morals is saddening. she doesn't go to church anymore or say prayers with kids at bedtime. she drinks everyday and its like she's trying to find her 20's. i'm not downing people who choose this lifestyle, but i always respected and cherished her for her strong faith and value system. i pray for my W every day and that He will take away the pain i have caused her. i sincerely want the best for her right now and its ME. i know she can't/won't see that right now, so i'll continue to show her unconditional love while still working to improve myself.

Right in this paragraph, you're all over the place and I understand that it's tough.
All you have control over is if the kids say prayers when they're with you.
How do you know she drinks everyday?
How many days a week do you have the kids?
How much of your time off did you spend one-on-one with the kids before BD?
You don't get to decide what's best for her.
None of that paragraph shows unconditional love, it's all about judgment, control and superiority.

You haven't lost this yet but it seems now you want to deflect the focus from you and turn it to her. She's not a "quality" person. What does that mean?

Are you ready to D her re this quality issue?

i'm sure all this is confusing and seemingly contradictory but its my story and i'm sticking to it .

If that's the case, no one here can help you.