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Originally Posted By: Rzrback


Thanks Az. I'm not quite to the point of worrying about the financial side.


You should be. You should also not be so dismissive that it is "only" an EA. Us men make that mistake all the time, and just ask the women on your thread -- an EA means more to a woman than a PA does.

Try to watch that you are on the right side of that fine line of "Confidence/Nonchalant." Confidence is best when it's earned from a place of strong preparation and an attitude of "I can handle it."


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: Rzrback

I had never heard the word "hypergamy" before so I did some research. Came across some interesting material, much of which dovetails nicely with the concepts behind the 180 rules. I thought as long as I had a ring on it, I was "safe" in my marriage, but I'm starting to realize how beta I've been. Thought provoking! Thanks Az!


I was actually reluctant at first to pop that term in here because it can be viewed with a lot of negativity. However, it's one of those things that seems to be ingrained biologically. I have done a lot of reading and observing on my own and this is a very common issue with the younger generation and has roots in our generation. With the increase in the "disposable marriage" attitude and feeling of entitlement, it is my opinion that this plays a part in some WAS situations, albeit subconsciously. Understand, this doesn't have to be strictly based on financial status or the type; social status & personality also plays a large role and causes the person to be seen as higher value & exciting.

As far as being either "alpha" or "beta"; it's not one or the other; you have to maintain a mix of both traits in your frame in regards to LTR & Marriage.

Consider the typical "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech we get, or it's various forms. What does that really mean? Break down the key words:

Love = the loving, caring, connection type actions which gives comfort and bonding in the relationship = "beta" traits that release Oxytocin

In Love = Fun, exciting, charismatic, charming type actions which are attractive = "alpha" traits that release dopamine.

So, replace the key words in that statement and you get:

"I "oxytocin" you, but I'm not in "dopamine" with you". In other words, the loving bond is still there, but you don't excite me or attract me anymore. This explains the waffling between the BS & the OP; they still have the bond with the BS, but they are getting the dopamine rush from the OP.

In short, this is part of the "marriage is work". You have to stay engaged, keep it exciting, "date" each other continually and mix it up!

Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: Rzrback

Thanks Az. I'm not quite to the point of worrying about the financial side.

You should be. You should also not be so dismissive that it is "only" an EA. Us men make that mistake all the time, and just ask the women on your thread -- an EA means more to a woman than a PA does.


^^^^^^This! Emotional connection is HUGE for them! this is why it is frequent that the wife is more distraught over the EA than a PA! An EA is more destructive in my opinion than a PA or a ONS due to how bad it erodes the connection & bond between the BS & the WAS. The longer the EA continues, the chance of a PA almost becomes inevitable! When I busted my X's second PA, they were already in the planning stages for him to visit our city & her!!!


Az


Me: 44
X WAW/MLC: 42
Kids: S21, D11
BD: July 2013 (ILYBNILWY)
EAx2: Busted 1 OCT 2013; 25 Mar 2014
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Originally Posted By: Azagtoth


I was actually reluctant at first to pop that term in here because it can be viewed with a lot of negativity. However, it's one of those things that seems to be ingrained biologically. I have done a lot of reading and observing on my own and this is a very common issue with the younger generation and has roots in our generation. With the increase in the "disposable marriage" attitude and feeling of entitlement, it is my opinion that this plays a part in some WAS situations, albeit subconsciously. Understand, this doesn't have to be strictly based on financial status or the type; social status & personality also plays a large role and causes the person to be seen as higher value & exciting.

As far as being either "alpha" or "beta"; it's not one or the other; you have to maintain a mix of both traits in your frame in regards to LTR & Marriage.

Consider the typical "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech we get, or it's various forms. What does that really mean? Break down the key words:

Love = the loving, caring, connection type actions which gives comfort and bonding in the relationship = "beta" traits that release Oxytocin

In Love = Fun, exciting, charismatic, charming type actions which are attractive = "alpha" traits that release dopamine.

So, replace the key words in that statement and you get:

"I "oxytocin" you, but I'm not in "dopamine" with you". In other words, the loving bond is still there, but you don't excite me or attract me anymore. This explains the waffling between the BS & the OP; they still have the bond with the BS, but they are getting the dopamine rush from the OP.

In short, this is part of the "marriage is work". You have to stay engaged, keep it exciting, "date" each other continually and mix it up!



Damn, Az, where were you a couple of weeks ago? J/K. I appreciate your input.

Some of the words my W has used to describe OM are identical to what you posted.

Fun, exciting, charismatic, charming

He charms the panties off of her (well, not literally, but you get the point). He's a salesman type who presents himself very well. He's arguably more financially successful than I am based on his job title. Other adjectives she's used: light, goofy, funny.

She's in a pretty lucid place right now. She knows "logically" that he's a scoundrel, that he's not trustworthy, that he's being dishonest with his wife, and that he still makes her wet anyway. And because HE is making her feel this way, I have very little chance to have the same effect on her.

I knew that she was always an emotionally driven person; I just didn't realize HOW emotionally driven. She can see how f'd up her emotions are, but she can't get past them.

It's funny, and I'm sure this is the oxytocin talking, that she tells me she draws no comfort off of me, yet she gets really uneasy not having me around.

I want to turn up the spontaneity and laughter in our lives; laughter is a big deal to her. If you have any ideas about how to do that and continue my 180s, I'm all ears.

I'm glad you mentioned the term "hypergamy". It opened up a whole new world of information for me. I have finally figured out that if a man loses his mojo after getting married, all the rings and vows in the world won't protect his relationship. That's what happened to me, in a nutshell.

Quote:


^^^^^^This! Emotional connection is HUGE for them! this is why it is frequent that the wife is more distraught over the EA than a PA! An EA is more destructive in my opinion than a PA or a ONS due to how bad it erodes the connection & bond between the BS & the WAS. The longer the EA continues, the chance of a PA almost becomes inevitable! When I busted my X's second PA, they were already in the planning stages for him to visit our city & her!!!


Az


I have not explicitly demanded that she cut off OM, just because I know that demanding will get me exactly nowhere, but I need to make her understand that she will lose me forever if she cannot get him taken care of. She will lose me....not the other way around. I've alread decided that if she continues to make this douchebag more important than me, I'm going to stop wasting my time with her.

Last edited by Rzrback; 11/25/14 06:02 PM.

Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

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Az, you are very wise. Awesome, awesome post!


whistle whistle whistle whistle


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: Rzrback

It's funny, and I'm sure this is the oxytocin talking, that she tells me she draws no comfort off of me, yet she gets really uneasy not having me around.


You are a "comfort" she has had for 20+ years; still a bond there of course!

Originally Posted By: Rzrback

I want to turn up the spontaneity and laughter in our lives; laughter is a big deal to her. If you have any ideas about how to do that and continue my 180s, I'm all ears.


Best thing you can do is continue to GAL and be as upbeat as possible. Don't let her see you down/depressed/moping! If she asks how you are, respond in a positive matter but make sure your actions show it as well! If you have the opportunity to joke & kid around with her like you did when you first started, even better! Nothing will kill your attraction & her respect more than giving the appearance of unhappiness and "pining away" for her. If she can see you standing on your own, confident, happy with yourself and able to move on without her, it may give her pause to what she is about to lose!

Originally Posted By: Rzrback

I have not explicitly demanded that she cut off OM, just because I know that demanding will get me exactly nowhere, but I need to make her understand that she will lose me forever if she cannot get him taken care of. She will lose me....not the other way around. I've alread decided that if she continues to make this douchebag more important than me, I'm going to stop wasting my time with her.


So, if this is the way you truly feel, be plain blunt about it. Tell her you will not tolerate the OM nor will you discuss it further with her. If she continues on her path, she risks losing you permanently. If a PA is a "deal breaker", make sure she knows it is and the marriage will be irretrievable broken if she does. Be direct, use an even voice, don't lose control. If she tries to argue the point, just walk away.

Just my opinion and my way; adjust accordingly to your style & approach!



Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Az, you are very wise. Awesome, awesome post!


Thanks Starsky; wish I could have been "wiser" sooner in my life. Took a lot of reading and a lot of self improvement and I am still tweaking me. But hey, at least an "old dog" can learn new tricks!


Az


Me: 44
X WAW/MLC: 42
Kids: S21, D11
BD: July 2013 (ILYBNILWY)
EAx2: Busted 1 OCT 2013; 25 Mar 2014
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Sounds like I'm doing what I need to do vis a vis my GAL and mood. I am generally able to keep things light and upbeat at home, we have joked & found funny things to laugh about. I haven't lost my temper (outside of a couple of arguments) in months. No moping. Looks like that part is going OK.

I have made my boundaries very clear regarding a PA. She knows that any physical contact between them means I am done. She also knows that if she left me for him or anyone else, that he had better be everything she wanted, because I will no longer be an option to her. I can see some scenarios where I would be open to R, but the window of opportunity for that would be short. I won't mention that possibility to her. No safety nets.

I'm OK with giving her a little bit of time to process OM in her head and get him resolved, but that grace period won't last forever. I'm still trying to decide what my time limit is on this.

I just noticed your location; you live in the same state as OM.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

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As, I've polled this question before and I think I know what your answer will be, but I'd like your insights. Is there anything to be gained by confronting the OM myself? He calls on my company and I know when he will be here next month.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

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What would you plan to do?


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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If I ran into him in the building, I would simply pull him aside and quietly tell him to leave my W the F*** alone. No violence, no drama. It's my workplace after all.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

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Rzrback,

Telling OM to "leave your W alone" is a waste of energy and breath. If he's having an EA - or a PA - with a married woman, chances are he doesn't have much of a moral compass ... or, at least, if he DOES have one, he isn't being guided by it right now.

If you want to send a message (many on this site would encourage you NOT to, btw, and that would be more in-line with MWD's philosophy than what I'm about to pitch), there's a better idea. And this is what I did w/ my H's (now-X)OW ... after I had already texted her a plethora of snapshots of her sexual text-conversations with H ... oh, and his sexual text-conversations with ME at the same time, you know, just for good measure. (But keep in mind this IS NOT encouraged by DB principles and I only chose to do this *after* I had LOADS of evidence of an actual PHYSICAL A.)

Lock eyes with OM when he's in the building next time. Not AT ALL in a threatening way. Keep your mouth shut. But just lock friendly/competitive-ish eyes with him. Smile at him. And KEEP smiling at him. Like, not a warm, friendly smile. A sh!t-eating grin. Make it reallyyyyy awkward ... for HIM. Go so far as to wink at him if you're in the mood.

If you want him to squirm a little - while YOU keep the upper-hand - give him a subtle message like that: One that says, "I'm fully aware what you're doing with my W, brah. And I ain't worried about it. Game on."

Keep your dignity here. Stay in touch with your confidence. And trust my words: Whatever you do will get back to W as long as W is in touch with him. So "kill two birds with one stone." If she's anything like me and most women I know, she's going to be A LOT more "thrown" by ... and attracted to ... a man who exudes QUIET confidence than one who tries to be controlling and "threatening."

And, obviously, don't tell your W you saw OM. Or anything of that sort.

Confidence. Confidence. Confidence.

I can't stress that word enough.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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