Hi everyone. Time for a new thread, Been off the boards last couple days. Trying to get my life going in the right direction, make some money, take care of D14. Talked to my lawyer and it seems that my W's lawyer now wants to go to mediation! This is what I wanted to do from the start but W went ahead and hired her own lawyer with her daddy's money forcing me to hire my own and causing us both to spend money we just didn't have. Now, when it looks like she may lose trying to make me lose the house, she wants to fire our lawyers, spend more money on a mediator and it just so happens HER lawyer is a mediator! My lawyer told them that that was a bad idea and that we should meet and try to hash out an agreement before doing something like that. I swear, why they just won't listen to us, how they have to do things the way they want, how anything we say is seen as just some way to stop them from getting what they want is so annoying!
I told my lawyer that I have to concentrate on getting a new job and making some money for now so this week wouldn't work. This gives me some time. I have D14 this week and she needed to stay at her mom's one night because she had to be in school early. The night before she called and said she left her make up at my house and needed me to bring it. Knowing how important make up is to 14 year olds, I got up really early to take it to her and take her to school since it was freezing and her mom wouldn't drive her. So, I get there early and I see W. She had no idea I was coming and was surprised to see me. She asked about my job search and I told her I can't find a job south (when I questioned her moving so far south she insisted that I would "easily" find a job south), I told her that I got no response from 43 different resumes but when I had to try north as I can't live without money, I got 5 interviews from just 10 resumes sent! I told her that I think I will be offered a job and where. She understands that it will add 120 miles a day on weeks I have my D14 and I told her that I have no choice as I need money to live. That I would find a way to make it work. Then she just went to work. Amazing how she doesn't seem to care at all about how she has disrupted all our lives.
Later that day my D19 calls me very upset. She asks if I saw what my W had posted on Facebook earlier that day. I told her I hadn't. Seems that she and her mom still aren't getting along. D19 says my W won't stop pushing her to come live with her and also refuses to help her at all with even small expenses she needs to help her go back to school. My D19 has been working so hard, last week she worked 65 hours! She is saving money for school and so she can get a car so she can come back and live with me if she wants while going to school. W keeps telling her what to do and how "wrong" everything she is doing is and unless D19 does what W wants, W refuses to help her at all with money or anything else. W didn't even care that D19 was going to be stuck all alone on Thanks Giving! Well, my W posted this saying on Facebook that basically said that she was tired of living her life to make other people happy and that anyone who asked that of her didn't belong in her life at all. Of course, no one ever asked her to live her life to make them happy, it's the whole reason SHE said that she left was I wasn't able to make her happy! For the last 3 years me and the kids tried so hard to find a way to get their mom to be happy. We all tried so hard to include her, do things SHE wanted to do, treat her the way she wanted to be treated and she thinks she was EVER asked to make any of us happy? What a hypocritical thing to post on Facebook! D19 was almost in tears saying that I guess that includes her own kids since it was clear that her mom didn't want her in her life unless she did what her mom wanted. I feel so bad for D19 but there's nothing I can do about her relationship with her mother. It seems that my W has decided to treat her D19 the way her father treated her. The way that made her so upset and sad because her father refused to allow her in his life unless she did what HE wanted her to. I saw how it hurt her and now she thinks treating her own D the same way is the right thing to do? I get they are in "crisis" and hurting and all but how in the world can they believe the crap that they do and post that like they are such "victims" is beyond me. And poor D19 feels just like her mother did when her father refused to be part of her life. All her life my W would say how she would never treat her kids that way. Now it's how she decides to treat her own D?
Speaking with my D14 this week she has been telling me how she hardly ever see's her mom when she's there. Usually all the talking they do is when her mom gets home she says hello and goes to bed. D14 says she has become used to being alone, having the house to herself. It now feels "weird" when she's home and so is her mother. All I can do is continue to be there for both of them. I'm making plans on going to D19's for TG and taking D14 with me since her mother won't say what plans she has and if she expects D14 to be with her or what. Sad that W seems to not care much about her relationship with either of them but again, it's not my place to do or say anything. That's between their mother and them. I don't ever say anything bad about about my W to them or in front of them (or ever really). But I won't defend her actions either.
I had hoped that my W was calming down a bit. I guess I was wrong. I will say that the longer this selfish attitude continues, the less respect I have for my W. OK, she feels she needs to do the things she's been doing because she's in crisis but how can someone not be able to see how they are hurting their own kids or, if they can see it, not care? There will come a point when she pushes her D's away. How do you live with yourself when you do something like that? It's more important than ever that I get my chit together and get my life moving in the right direction. My D's need me and I'll be darned if I allow myself to not be in the position to help them when they do!
Matt, I second Heather's comment....great for you on the 5 interviews!!! Also for telling your L how you needed to use your next weeks to get your own things in order.
Very nicely done!
And yeah....the fb stuff....pretty immature, huh? Best stay away from the crazy.... You know I got one, too. Yeeesh.
I am having trouble with lawyers too. I am probably going to fire mine on Monday and go pro se which means to represent myself. I am not sure I would recommend this for you. I would say that if you both can select an new impartial mediator that would be the best. I would not use her attorney as the mediator. Too much history. I would interview the mediator together with your wife. If she won't agree, then keep going as u are. In my case I see both lawyers dragging it out to make many thousands more. Since most of it has already been decided, I can save thousand getting rid of my lawyer.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
Thanks Guys, Yeah, I was excited. I guess my skill set is needed more north. In fact I really think I will be offered the first position I interviewed for. It sounds like a great job and it has base + commission and bonus. Perfect. Just a long trip when I have my D14! Not as far as the other places I have interviews with though. I have a follow up next week to meet all the staff to see if they like me and if they do, I think I'm in.
LT, When I hired my lawyer, I got him to do the D for a flat fee. That way I wouldn't run up a bill spending more and more all the time. My W (or should I say her father since he was the one who hired him) wasn't smart enough to even ask so W's bills just keep getting higher. This is why she wants a mediator. I don't have to worry about my lawyer costing more so as far as I'm concerned I'm not spending any more money on hiring someone new. If you are looking for a new lawyer, I would see if you can't get him to do it for a flat fee as well!
Hi everyone! Just got an email from the place I interviewed first. They want me to come in and meet everyone next Wednesday. No way that they would bother if they weren't very interested in me. I'm getting crap from the place I am working now. We had to move the offices since the money guy hasn't been paying the rent. So he texts yesterday saying he wants to meet at the new office today. (I've been working from home all week) Either in the morning or afternoon. I text back that my D14 may have an appt. in the AM, I had to check with my W as she isn't sure. So, today at 10:00 AM I get a text saying we are to meet at 3:00 at new office. So, I text back that I have to pick my D14 up from school at 3:45 and the office is 40 min's from the school. Now, if I had a little head's up I could have arranged something but I didn't. So this guy texts back "You can't meet in the morning b/c you have to take your D to appt., and now you can't meet in afternoon because you have to pick up D from school....." then another text right after saying "Don't bother replying". What an a$$hat! Hey, I'm a single parent now. I can't just jump when he says so and leave my D14 hanging! If he'd paid the rent, this wouldn't be happening! I am so glad that I won't be working there much longer. I just feel bad for the clients I will leave behind. They will have to deal with that idiot.
So, last night W calls me about 9:00 PM. She asks if D14 is with me as I had told her I may need to have her stay with W if I had a follow up interview. I told D14 to tell her mom I'm not going to need her to stay but she didn't and W wanted to be sure she was with me and not "missing". She says she has told D14 to text her when she gets home after school and if she is going somewhere and she has been "slacking off" lately. Well, seems W cares about her D, just not enough to come home at a decent hour. W said that even texting will just help retrace her steps if D14 gets abducted. Doesn't she understand how worrying it is that she is leaving D14 all alone like that? Well, I apologized and told her I had thought D14 had told her. W says she is planning to go to see her dad this weekend. It's a several hour trip so I offer to keep D14 until Monday instead of getting her Sunday. That way, W won't have to rush home Sunday. She thanked me and said that would really help her out. I asked her about Thanksgiving and that D19 was going to be all alone and I was going to spend it with her. I said that if she was going to go see her dad, I would take D14. So, W tells me that she had thought about HER having TG and inviting both D19 and ME so we could all spend the day together but with D19 having to go to work that night, it would be hard. Um, really. She didn't say this to D19, me or D14. For my part I said that would work as long as D19 could get back in time for work. Of course, I really don't think it will happen. Just another thing that W "thinks" about doing but doesn't do. I asked about her dad and how he was and he isn't well but I wanted to show sympathy. I was the one to end the talk. W was nice, seemed to care about D19, even said she may invite me and girls to her place for TG dinner. Thing is, I don't think she will. I have no expectation that she will actually do this. It doesn't bother me at all and I like that. I'm becoming more detached every day now. Of course in the past whenever W was nice like this something horrible was about to happen like her demanding I give up the house or her lawyer filing something new so I will be ready for that. In fact, I missed a call from my lawyer today so her lawyer may have done something new, who knows. No expectations! Just glad that she was nice on the call and seemed more like her old self.
So, big day next Wednesday. Everyone wish me luck and cross your fingers for me as it would be great if I could get this job and have at least some money before X-mass! Also, I still may be able to make some money before I leave the place I'm at now. That would be great and I have all next week to do just that. As long as I have enough time to get the money in and get my commission. Hope everyone is doing well out there!
Matt, I do really think that you're getting better about detachment. With your new job, I think it will aid you further along the detachment process. I'd be really interested in hearing how W handles her father's illness and his eventual demise. Time will tell.
Good luck Wednesday! You can do this, Matt. We are cheering you on:-)
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
Don't expect anything from TG family style. Your W is so far gone in her MLC, the end of the tunnel is not near - from what I can see. She is so selfish and she does not see what she is doing to her family she only sees her decisions as saving herself.
Keep the focus on yourself and your kids. You might also try to engage with her less and not include her in details of your job search.
---- M 39 H 35 D5,D4 M 4 T 9 ILYBNILWY 5/18/11 Left 7/11/11 Divorced 12/1/13
Thanks for the kind words everyone! It means a lot knowing you are all are there backing me up!
Had a great weekend with the girls. D19 and her BF came over last night late just to visit and her sister me and them stayed up until 3:00 AM laughing and having fun. D14 really misses her sister and I'm so glad they got the chance to spend the time together. I made breakfast for everyone this morning and it just felt so right. W is visiting her father this weekend so I'm taking D14 back tomorrow instead of tonight. It's just so sad all that W is missing out on by doing what she is. D19 is still so angry at her mom because she keeps telling her how wrong she is living her life, how she should or shouldn't do this or that, how she tells her to come live with her and refuses to be a part of her life unless she does what SHE wants her to do. I swear she's angrier at her mom than I am! That is between D19 and W. I hope that they can work things out but I can't do a thing to help that happen.
So, 3 days until my follow up interview. I really think I got this!
Hey Matt. My sons are older (youngest 19), but you know what? I too have started to realize how much XW is missing out on. I get to see my sons everyday. Her relationship with them has been reduced to text messages, Facebook and an occasional lunch.
Pretty sad.
Currently: M 56 XW 57 Sons 38,33,31,29
The Sitch: Married 26 years EA w/ OM 9/10 Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary) Sep 12/10 She wants D 1/11 W files 5/11 D final 10/11 XW marries OM 6/13
Hey one and all, Tomorrow is my big interview day so everyone keep their fingers crossed around 8:00 AM CST! I have now officially had it with where I'm working now. We have moved to a new, tiny office that I share with 2 other people. The guy who was supposed to set this all up (the one who wasted all our money!) really didn't do a very good job setting us up and now our phones and internet aren't working AND he is gone to Jamaica! I MUST get the heck out of here! On the good news front I may have made a sale today that will really help my money sitch not a lot but enough that I will pay the bills until I get started at the new job (if I get it!).
I told a client about my W leaving today. This a first for me. I really haven't talked to many people about it that I know and know me and I just avoid the subject. I just found out his W died a few weeks ago and he is very unhappy and misses her badly. She had been fighting cancer for a long time and just couldn't fight it any longer. When I told him about my W leaving he said that a good friend of his found his W gone and D papers at his house when he got back from the funeral! He said his friend was totally blind sided and his W just said she isn't "happy" anymore. I swear, MLC is spreading like Ebola out there!
My lawyer called again yesterday but I couldn't answer as I was in a meeting. They want to know about a date to meet and "hash out" a final agreement with my W and her lawyer. I thought I had explained that until I get my job sitch covered I can't give them any dates. Oh, well. I just have to call them back and explain once again I guess. Just hard as I can't talk in front of the people I work with about interviews and I'm stuck in the same office now!
Nothing new other than the lawyer stuff on the W front. She got back yesterday from visiting her father and my D14 is back with her now. I haven't heard a peep. Oh, and I got a registered letter from the IRS yesterday that I have to pick up at the post office. Oh, joy!
Just checking in and I hope all is well with everyone out there!
It's funny how now that you're so emotionally raw, you have so much more empathy for other people and hear stories about all kinds of things people are having to live through.
There is a quote, something like, "Be kind, because almost everybody is fighting a battle you know nothing about."
So true.
Since my sitch happened, I have met so many people who have had similar experiences. I've cried and hugged perfect strangers when one or both of us shared.
There is a lot of pain in the world.
We can make it better with what we learn, with what we do, with who we are.
Go get 'em, Tiger!
Your Pal,
The Goat Gal
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
Good luck tomorrow Matt, be confident in spite of what has been going on around you! You have valuable skills for the employer lucky enough to get you.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
Thanks everyone, Well, the interview today was with all the people I would be working with if I get the job. There are 5 others that are the "core" group (the ones I met with) and then 2 recent hires that weren't part of the meeting. Spent an hour with them asking questions about me, why I want to work there, what my ideas about how to deal with people when "selling", etc. It went really well! They all seemed to like me and my answers seemed to be the ones that they wanted to hear. After it was over, the owner got there and said that he is trying to figure out how to arrange things as all his offices are full right now (a very good sign), that he would talk to the others and ask about their impressions of me and get back to me in the next few days. He also thanked me for the note I sent. Here's a hint for anyone out there looking for a job....always send a thank you note after a first interview. So many people don't bother nowadays and it really does make a difference. So, looks like I have a very good chance of getting the job. Still not counting on it until he offers but all signs point that way.
I also spoke with a client today and may have another sale. Neither one is certain just yet but both seem like they are going to go ahead and do it. I really need them to as I'm out of money and need to pay my bills. My electric is late enough that I could be shut off (only 2 weeks but they are really hard a$$es around here and I once got it shut off because I forgot to pay the bill before I left for a 2 week vacation!) and my internet/phone is hanging by a thread! I hate living this way. I never can relax as I never know if today is the day something happens like my electric getting shut off! I will need to wait until the checks clear if I do make a sale so I'm hoping I can get them to move soon but not push so much I lose the sale. Hard position to be in.
D14 called me just now. We are in the middle of a cold wave (not as bad as poor Heather with 6 feet of snow!) but really cold for this area. It's been well below freezing the past 10 days in the morning. Well, seems D14 needs a ride to school as her mom isn't "able" to take her and she would have to walk the 2 miles if I don't. I wasn't going in the office in the morning tomorrow so wouldn't be going past D14. I told her this but she was really upset and I just don't like her walking in the morning with traffic and being cold and her being 14 and not paying attention! So, I told her I would just drive down and take her to school. I warned her that if I get this new job I won't be able to take her when she's with her mom. That's one of the reasons I said yes. I want her to know I will be there for her if I can and soon I won't be able to do this for her anymore. I still don't know what my W thinks is going to happen over Thanksgiving and I have no money right now and that scares me, a lot!
Thanks everyone for the good vibes. Hopefully I'll hear soon about the job. I really need some good news. More than that I need the sales to go through so I can live to fight another month. Now, if I could get both........
For what it's worth, just because her mom and dad are no longer married doesn't keep you from being her dad. Dad's do stuff like take their daughter's to school. Just be careful to not make it about her mom - your daughter has enough going on to not be part of the fight, right? (I'm not saying you are, but it's an easy line to fall over where you're walking, amigo).
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Thanks AJ, I'm always careful never to even ask about why her mom isn't able to take her. I make sure to keep it about her and only her. Things would be so much easier if W hadn't moved so far. Had listened and not just dismissed me when I asked her not to move so far with D14. At the time W just acted as if anything I said was just my trying to stop her from getting what she wanted. That's one of the hardest things about dealing with someone in MLC, they just can't seem to think past getting what they want at that moment. But what's done is done, now I just need to make the best of the sitch. I don't see any use in placing blame now. Definitely not what D14 needs at this time. Thanks for checking in!
I hope you DO GET the job! Sending you positive vibes.
Is there any way that your D can get a ride from a school friend's mom/dad or a school staff member? Ask your D about that. There has to be a better way other than having you to drive a long way just to drop D off at school.
Hi Wonka! It's hard for me to know since unlike the past, I don't really know any other parents since I live so far. W hasn't met any of D14's friends or parents as of yet and if things stay the same as history she won't. One of the things that was really hard when she went into MLC was how she just refused to socialize with other parents or even take D14 to events like parties or sleep overs so she didn't really know the other parents. I, on the other hand did get to know them all rather well since I was always the one taking her. I'm sure once I start to go to D14's events I'll met up with some of the other parents and may be able to arrange something on days that her mom doesn't take her.
I know W's thoughts and priorities are her own and she can decide for herself what is important and what isn't but I just don't get how unimportant she seems to think D14's needs are. this morning I found out from D14 her mom is wanting her to do something with her and her father and his W for Thanksgiving. D14 is NOT happy about that and would rather go to see her sister with me. She said that when she told her mom this W got upset and started going on about how her sister is messing up and how she shouldn't be living where she is ect. D14 said that she took her sisters side and told her that if she moved she would most likely move in with me. That the fact that she wouldn't even have her own space at her mom's would be hard. That her sister is working hard and going to school where she is now and that she couldn't do that if she did what her mom wants. She said she thinks she won the argument because her mom got really quiet but then she went back to saying how she is just "wrong". I just held my tongue and listened and validated, never said a word about her mom. (not easy but I did it).
Well, what I don't get is I thought her father was too sick to travel but now is coming for TG? How my W knows that I would like D14 to come with me and said that so far she was fine with that. I guess she changed her mind again, oh, well. Should have expected it wouldn't be easy. Not something I can think about now. I really need to just keep working on making money and getting the new job!
Have you thought about the possibility that this is probably FIL's last Thanksgiving? I wouldn't be surprised if his cancer has advanced to the point that he may have weeks or just few months left to live. Please try to have some compassion despite his not-so stellar background as a father and grandfather.
Wonka, You would be surprised at the amount of compassion I have forced myself to show this man. The problem is he is mean and says hurtful things to my D's. He never cared to see them or acknowledge that they existed until after W left. I now am watching my D's mother treat them EXACTLY like he treated my W all her life. He has taught his D how to act unless they do what she wants them to do. This is his MO. Unless your kids do what YOU decide they should do you ignore them and insult them to their faces. I can't tell you how he would say the most hurtful things to my W, in front of me and her own kids, things that weren't even true but that he knew would hurt. It's his way of controlling everyone around him. The last time my D14 was with my W and him she was in tears the next day telling me how she hates the way her mother acts when he is around. She becomes just like him, insulting, superior, down right mean.
I think you get the wrong idea. HE doesn't even want to see my D's. It's my W that wants the girls to somehow see him differently. The problem is he has no desire to have a relationship with them. What he wants is to control W. D14 has gone through enough this last year, she should decide where she wants to go and who she wants to see. If I thought that her being there for TG would make this dying man happy I would tell my D14 to gut it out. It won't and all that will happen is more of the same. I know that sounds really cruel of me but it really isn't. If I thought that FIL wanted to try and change the way things are between his grandkids and himself that would be different. He doesn't and he won't and all it will do is add another rotten memory of D14's GF to all the others she has now.
I do have compassion for my W. I know that she will be so devastated when he does die. She wants so badly to somehow find the love and respect from him that she always craved but never got. Of course no one can make up for 40 years of being awful in the time they have left. W has held out hope since I've known her that she could find a way to "earn" his love and respect. When he is gone, that chance is now gone forever. That will be so hurtful for her. I pray that she and him find someway to relate before he is gone...for both their sakes.
It is my sense that your W wants D14 around FIL for TG as she is feeling really desolate and desperate that she's losing him. In her mind, she wants D14 and D19 to spend this TG as W thinks that FIL will die fairly soon and she can then mentally check off the box in her head that she made the effort to corral girls around to spend his last TG together.
Unfortunately, it will not surprise me to learn later that W will most likely fall apart after FIL dies. It seems to me that she is so fragile that she would DO whatever it takes to imitate her father as a way to gain his approval. That is their dynamic to live out. It is their R.
Yes, I am not saying that it's okay for your daughters to be around this man for they've been vocal about it. Too bad that D14 doesn't have much sway in this since you and W are the "adults" with a car.
Ride this out. It will be over in not the too distant future.
I wonder if FIL has experienced rapid weight loss in the last few weeks and exhibiting some weakness in walking. If this is indeed the case, this means that the cancer has spread out pretty far and there isn't much left.
Thanks Wonka, you are right. I see the same dynamic as you with W. He is living at MD Anderson and getting treatment (chemo mostly) that they say is "working" in that the tumors are getting smaller. My W said that once they get to a certain size (smaller) they will remove them. The problem is that the chemo is causing him to be sick. Many side effects and they have had to stop at times to allow him to get stronger then start the chemo back up. He has lost as much weight as I think he possibly can. He has been in and out of ICU several times in the last month, all because of the side effects of the treatment. Of course once they are ready to remove the tumors, he has to be strong enough to have the surgery to get them out. At this point, it's the treatment that is killing him more than the cancer itself. Of course, without the chemo it would have grown too large to remove at all in time so it's a choice of which poison.
I don't know Wonka. To be honest I have such mixed feelings. Part of me has watched this man hurt so many people including my best friend and W over so many years. He has totally destroyed his only son, hurt my MIL, a person I know to be such a good hearted, caring individual. He has pushed my W for years to leave her M and family until, once she was in crisis, she listened. He has lived a selfish life and hurt so many of the very people he had responsibility toward (like his own kids) and has shown no remorse for his actions. At the same time he is my W's father and a fellow human being. It's just so hard to find compassion for him especially now when I'm struggling just to make it in large part because of him and his actions and the effect they had on my W from the time she was 10 years old.
If my W hadn't left, if we weren't getting a D, what would my attitude be toward my kids spending TG with him? Would I back my W and say that they should as this may be his last? If that is the case and I believe it to be, then I need to put aside any other considerations and back that plan. I don't know. Just one more thing to have to think about.
In other news my D14 texted asking if a 16 year old boy she likes can take her home after school. My first thought was no but I thought it's only 2 miles (I don't think she should be driving with a kid with so little experience). So, I told her only if he takes her right home, that they go no where else, that he NOT be there alone with her, etc. I added that she needed to also get her mom's approval as well. Well, she texted back that her mom just said no and gave no reason and asked if I would try and change her mom's mind. I told her that wasn't my place and that her mom is just, like me, worried about her driving with someone so young and inexperienced.
Well, I got a text from W... W: D14 says you think it's fine that boy drive her home? Fact or fiction.
M:Not true. I told her that I didn't think she should be driving with someone so inexperienced. I told her IF he only took her the short drive home and that was all it might be OK. She read more into it than was there. I also backed you saying that you didn't want her driving with someone so inexperienced. She is just wanting to get her way.
W: Was hoping that was the case. I told her all the same stuff except that it's not ok even a short distance. It's wet out and he is inexperienced.
M: I agree especially if it's wet. (Went on to say I told her a bunch of "If only's" which was dumb as I had already said that! I also told her that I thought it was a rule that at 16 in TX you can't drive with minors not related to you.)
W: I think flat out no is better (At this point I should have ended this exchange but didn't..dang it!)
M: You're probably right. At that age they have a way of forgetting what they agree to.
W: It was our rule that D19 not drive with (BFF at age 16) until she had more experience. Though there may be a law.
M: I'll look it up. Would be nice if it was a law. Makes sense as young drivers are so easily distracted.
End of exchange. Well, I guess I'm glad W just didn't go ahead and let D14 do whatever she wanted. I'm a little ticked that she would think I would just say it was fine and over rule her. Didn't like the tone of her first text either. Next came D14 asking if she can go on a "date" with this guy next week while they are off for TG holiday. I texted only if he doesn't drive and they meet where ever it is they go and also what the plans are. Movie or something is fine, party or something like that, not so much. She's only 14 and he's 16. I hate this parenting by text message. I so wanted to be able to be there together as a family for these kind of things. I hate MLC!
Where I live its 1 year before new driver can legally carry someone other than family member and for first 6 months they cannot carry anyone unless parent is in the car. So, I used the rule both ways in that I did not allow my daughters to ride with someone until they had at least one year of driving experience. I also think 14 is really to young to be driven around by a boy.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
I so agree LT, thanks! She only lives 2 miles from the school so that in my mind wasn't being "driven around". That's why I told her she can go on a "date" only if she meets him there. I would take her and pick her up. I know that this is going to be something that isn't going to just go away. W and I are going to need to be on the same page on this going into the future.
I like your states rules. Here in TX you are allowed one person under 21 to drive with you (not a relative) the first year. Too bad, would have been easier if I could just tell D14 it was against the law!
OK, good news on the job front! I got an email from the owner of the co. where I had the follow up interview. Tomorrow I will have a call with him and I think he is going to offer me the job. I need to find out exactly how much the base is, how much I can expect to earn with commission and bonuses. I also will need to find out when he wants me to start and he said that I need to take an internet course and pass it before I can start (need a license for what I will be doing). I also need to see if I can't get the sales I set up done and the money in before I quit. At this time I am almost totally broke, my electric and internet is late and could be shut off at any moment and I have TG coming with my D19 (and maybe D14 as I still don't know what my W is planning!). Money is important as i have to have something for gas to get to my new job! God, I am stressed but getting close to starting to have a steady income. I just need to make it a little longer until I get a steady income!
Send me those good vibes that I get the sales done and the job offer comes through and is enough to get by until the commissions kick in! Thanks!
You got this! Money is flowing your way and don't forget to thank God/Universe for the blessings.
You can google salaries based on job and location. Also ask if there's a sign-up bonus and if there's one, negotiate for it to be paid up in say 15-30 days. Be sure to look at perks too for they are negotiable as well.
Sometimes you can get commission on the sales you did prior to leaving. Negotiate with your old company and request that you get paid commission on each and every sale you've done up to this point. This way, you'll still get monies from the old company while you receive money with the new one.
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
Well, it's official. I have been offered the job. That's the good news, the bad news is that the base is lower than I had expected and as of yet the owner can't offer medical although he hopes to by the end of the year. He did say that with my sales skills and from what he see's in me I can expect to make $50K to $60K in the next 12 months. His avg. for new people with little experience is $40K to $45K. Also, since I have a Series 7 license already I can sell certain things that others there can't. I do feel that I can do very well at this from what I have seen and heard from the people who are there already. Another plus is that he is OK with the fact that when I have D14 I will be unable to come in until later than usual.
The medical I think won't be that bad as D14 will stay on W's medical and it will be just me and affordable. As of now any steady amount of money is better than what I've been making! I had to go back to my parents again for money help and they came through for me. I feel horrible asking but I'm hoping that one of the sales comes through in the next week and I will pay it right back. I need to take the course before I can start and that will probably take 2 weeks.In that time I hope to make at least one sale (I'm close with several clients). The money I got from parents will get me caught up on bills and allow me to at least relax a little and do what I need to.
On the W front, I spoke with her today as she called. I had taken D14 to the movies near where W lives for a "date" with a boy from her school. I wouldn't allow her to go with him driving so I waited for her to get done to drive her home. As I was waiting after the movie ended, W called to tell me she would pick D14 up if I wanted. I thanked her for the offer but told her I was already there so.... While on the phone I asked about D14 going with me to D19's for TG. She said that she was supposed to get her for TG but as long as she got X-Mass, she didn't mind. I took a page from AJM here and asked if it was important that D14 be there because her father was coming, I didn't mind as I was going to D19's because she has to work and had no way of coming to my or her house and would be alone if I didn't go to her. Of all the reactions I expected, what I got was what seemed like anger from W. She said that it was fine that I take D14 as she can see her father Friday or Saturday. She seemed annoyed that I was trying to be nice. Go figure. She asked about the job and I told her I had been offered the job, not sure what I was going to do or when but would probably take it. She also asked me to find the humidifier from the house as she really needs it at her place. She also said she wants to come over and divide the X-Mass ornaments and decide which ones the girls want to keep and which ones I will and she will. No second thoughts from her at all about moving ahead with the D, that's for sure. Of course, I didn't expect her to have any so no surprise there. Why she thinks that she can just have things from the house that she "needs" that I also may need is still a mystery but that has been her MO and I don't expect it to change. I have no idea what she is thinking or if she is 'happy" with her life without me. I don't ask her what she is doing and she doesn't talk to me about it. For now, I really think she is fixated on her fathers illness and her work and doesn't think of much else. Heck, I could be wrong but at this point it makes zero difference.
Thanks Wonka and Georgia. I don't know what I'd do without my friends here!
Congratulations on the job offer! When will you start?
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks ladies! I have to finish the course before I can start and that will probably take 2 weeks or so. I got a message today (got it too late to return the call dang it!) from one of the people that I'll be working with asking if I could meet Friday after TG to go over some things. Thing is I will be out of town at D19's and she needs me to take her to work so I won't be able to meet. I'm sure he will understand as many people travel on TG. I just wish I had gotten the message earlier and returned the call right away. Don't want to look like I'm not reliable.
I have D14 with me and she is VERY excited about seeing her sister. I think this is going to be a fun trip. I'm hoping I get the money in my account in time to buy a turkey and trimmings on the way to D19's tomorrow. They told my parents at the bank it would be in tomorrow but it's not there yet. We will see. I'm already feeling a lot less stressed what with having money to pay the bills and buy food AND this new job coming up. Now I have to call my lawyer as I got a message that he wants to talk to me about the D and what we need to do moving forward. last time we talked he said she wanted to go to mediation but he wanted to meet and hash out a final agreement. I hope that hasn't changed. I think he is upset because I just can't tell him when I will have the time to meet. I made the choice that finding a job and making some money came first, the D can wait until my life is stable. I don't want to spend money on mediation after my W was the one who forced me to get a lawyer in the first place after we had agreed to do it through mediation. Heck, if my W wants to get this over with all she has to do is agree to allowing me to keep the house (which according to my lawyer I'm entitled to as I brought so much much more $ into the M and my W only brought thousands in debt that we all but paid off over the years, debt she had BEFORE we got M). To me, if W thought she could win, she wouldn't ask for mediation and her lawyer wouldn't want it if he thought he had a case that would win in court. Oh, and I picked up the letter from the IRS and that is going to cause me to hire someone to help me or owe $20,000+! I haven't even done a thing about that as I couldn't pay a penny even if they came after me.
Oh, well. Just another day in stress land. Some days I still can't believe this is my life now. I worked so hard to keep us financially stable over the years while my W stressed but was too "upset" to help with the bills. I remember the year she quit her first job after we had our first D. D was 3 and we had been putting her in daycare so we both could work and W hated her job and having to leave our D every day. I got a promotion and had just started making really good money, enough that we could afford for her to quit. I asked her to work one more year so we could save and have a nest egg. She started to cry and said that she just couldn't leave her D in day care one more day. We had just found out she was pregnant with D #2 so was probably hormonal. I gave in right away and for the next 15 years I was the only one making money. If she had worked that extra year, we would have been so much better off as with just me working, we never were able to save. When I started to make even better money we decided to put the kids in private school. W was supposed to go back to work when both girls were in school during the day but when that happened, she was too depressed to work. Yet, now my W wants to say I never was "good with money" (part of her spew). Blames me for not having a better house, nicer things, more retirement funds. I spent half of the years we paid off this house with her so depressed I couldn't even count on her to pick up the girls from school, let alone make dinner for us. Now she is saying she was home taking care of the kids all those years. Well, maybe at first but for a big part of that time, she wasn't taking care of anything. Yet I'm the bad guy. The more that this goes on, the more I see how our M wasn't working. Through it all I remained supportive and did what I could to try and lift my W up. When it finally looked like she was getting better, she was working and not just sleeping all day. I was so happy. I thought that I would get my W back. What I got was her totally leaving her m and wanting a D. Her blaming me for every bad thing that ever happened, for "allowing" her to become depressed. At least now I can see that she is having a MLC. Until I found this site I was so confused as to what happened. Did I do something to cause this change in her? Now I find myself having to fight her for the things I worked so hard for US to have over the years. To have to figure out who gets our D's on what holidays.
I would call back the client and say that you would have loved to meet with him/her Friday, but suggest another date after Thanksgiving. It shows that you are paying attention to them.
Same for your lawyer. Lay it out to him that you have other priorities and that mediation would have to wait until you begin your new job. I don't think two weeks will hurt after you've finished the course.
Just wanted to say Happy Thanksgiving to all my friends! Hope the holidays bring new insights and better understanding for all of us!
Having a great day with my girls. Stayed the night last night w/my D14, D19, me and 3 dogs in a one bedroom apt.! My 2 dogs are country dogs and just don't get this "stay on a leash" to do their business thing. Their mom texted them on a group text "Happy TG" this morning (not even a special message for her kids? Group text that includes the people she works with?). I may text her later with a picture of the turkey D19 and I are cooking wishing her a happy TG, not sure yet.
D19 has to go to work tonight as she works retail and big day tomorrow. D14 and I were going to stay another night but D14 is wanting to go home. D19 needs a ride to work tomorrow and I'm not sure how to get D14 home and her to work. I don't want to leave D19 hanging but it's a long drive back. I need to think this one through. If I don't take her she will have to pay for an Uber ride and it will take much of what she earns. (Her boyfriend would have taken her but is out of town). Oh, well, I'll figure out some way to help her out.
Everyone root for the Eagles to crush the Cowboys! Go Birds!!
I dropped my D14 off at her mom's this morning. I didn't expect W to be there but not only was she there, but her father and his W were as well. I really can't stand either of them, knowing the part they played in my W's MLC and now in the ending of my M. I really didn't want to hear all about his being on death's door (the first thing he says every time time I see him is how he's so close to dying, so sick, looking for sympathy), have to act nice around a man (and his OW) that I have no respect for at all! So, I dropped off my D and made a quick exit. Of course that was dumb because I was supposed to take D14 to school. I hadn't even gotten to the end of the road and I realized that I left without taking her to school! I turned around and had her meet me out front. I was a little embarrassed as W came out. Oh, well.
I'm going to be honest here...I feel awful! I am really depressed, more so than I have been in ages. I hate that I won't have my D14 here with me. I hate that my D19 is so far away. I hate that my family is pretty much stuck having to deal with the selfish whims of of my MLC W. I enjoyed having my girls together and being a family and now it's back to everyone having to be apart. I have to get myself moving and take this course on line so I can start my new job, I have to call my lawyer, I have to try and get a sale and the computers and phones at work are still down. The money I got from my parents is almost gone having to go to pay past due bills and I must make some more and soon.
I find myself so angry at my W once again. Because of her I don't get to see my D's, holidays are stress filled events and not happy times. I have so little to be thankful for this year, about the worst year of my life because of my W and her MLC. I mean it's even partly her fault that it has taken so long to find a new job because she HAD to move my D14 so far away and I kept trying to find something that was in that direction. And W has no clue just how much pain and stress she has caused so many and wouldn't care even if she did in her state. This isn't mind reading, this is an observation of her attitude since this all started. I now find myself knowing that I have no real desire to ever be back with my W again. I still want my family together and the only way that can happen is if we did find a way to mend our M and that would be the only reason I would want her back in my life. The person I knew and loved has gone for good (or so it seems) and this selfish immature person has taken her place.
I have no money for X-mass. I can't help out my D19 who really needs some parental support (and deserves it) but her mother refuses to help her at all unless she does what SHE wants her to do...exactly what her father did to her and she hated that about him all her life, now she is doing the same thing to her own child, how sick is that? I have tried so hard to have compassion for my W because she is in "crisis" but as things keep going and she gets worse, not better, and I have so much stress because of her actions, I find it harder and harder to do. If I saw ANY sign that she may be waking up I might be able to hold on to some compassion but instead all I see is her getting and acting worse, not better.
I miss having human contact. I miss having someone special to talk to and just be with. Someone I can be honest with and not have to think about how they will react to this or that...it's so crazy when I think how long I have had to worry about how my W will take this or whether she will be angry or feel "pressured" by that. What about us LBS's? Why are we the ones that need to do this when the MLCers are the ones who have destroyed everything we worked for for so long?
Sorry about the downer tone of this post. Maybe it's just post TG blues now that the holiday is over. Just to show you where I'm at right now I have been thinking about my client who's W died a couple months ago. This was his first TG without her and I'm sure it wasn't easy for him. But I have found myself thinking that this would be easier if my W had died. He will have his kids with him and they will share their grief and remember the good times together as a family. We have to worry about who is going where and ask why W has changed so much. Why does she not seem to care about family any more, why is she so selfish and cold. My D's have to pretend around her that they aren't angry and not hurt her precious feelings, put up with her father (D14 was so upset when she saw that my FIL was there this morning and said she hopes he's gone by the time school is over) and not get to spend time with the family they love because that is my W's side and since she left she hasn't spent any time with them (they don't think her leaving was the right thing to do so W avoids them). I know that is wrong of me. I'm sure that in reality if she had died it would be horrible and painful just in a different way but it is how I feel at times. I don't like feeling that way but at times I just can't help it. It's so not like me, at least the me up until now.
Sorry for the rambling post. I hope everyone had a great TG and I wish you all the best!
The only thing I can tell you is that being where we both are in our situations is you can chose to laugh or cry. Crying gets old real fast so I have chosen to laugh. I hope you will do the same.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
Matt 4 years ago I wouldnt have asked if my daughter wanted PS 4, Xbox one, new laptop, 70" tv, furniture etc. I would have been able to buy them all for her. Now is different. Even she knows it. I asked her if she wanted the Xbox one. She said no too expensive. My ex makes good money but I think she didnt do math. You know I never made enough all my fault thingy.
Kids are resilient. Dont beat yourself up.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Thanks guys, My kids have been really good about the money thing, much better than my W for sure. W told me a couple weeks ago that she thinks it would be best for her to give D14 a $10 a week allowance on even months and I should do it in odd months. Well, this was an odd month. So, before I took her back to her mom's I offered her $10 for at least this last week. She looked at me and said she was fine and didn't need it. A teenager that turned down cash! She knows how hard it's been and just how broke I am. She asks for very little from me because of this. I am truly blessed to have a D that is so thoughtful. It's more how I feel not being able to get her anything. Her birthday is the week before X-mass so I can't get her anything for THAT either. My D19's birthday was a week after W left. W didn't do anything for her but I had some money at the time and made her a cake and had a small party for her at my house. She was so thankful for just that, knowing that I'm really struggling.
I guess there's something to be thankful for. That I have 2 great kids who understand what I'm going through and appreciate the things I do for them even more since they know how hard it is for me to do anything!
I really think I'm just feeling the way I am because this past TG was the first holiday post W leaving. The way she acted, the way she was so callous about making sure I know that she will get the girls on X-mass because they decided to spend this holiday with me. That and the fact that I'm feeling the stress of getting all the stuff done I need to to start my new job, try to make something before leaving the old, having to go to my parents once again for help, I think it's all just getting to me.
Oh, well. Nothing I can do but keep moving and keep my head in the game. I just don't have time to wallow. I need to leave the "poor me"'s to the MLCers and just get over it!
I guess there's something to be thankful for. That I have 2 great kids who understand what I'm going through and appreciate the things I do for them even more since they know how hard it is for me to do anything!
No guessing there...
Quote:
Oh, well. Nothing I can do but keep moving and keep my head in the game. I just don't have time to wallow. I need to leave the "poor me"'s to the MLCers and just get over it!
There will be time to recuperate soon Matt...trust me, you're going to get there and it'll surprise you, what you learned about what you CAN do, what you are made of... you'll be thinking "holy cr@p, I did it...I freaking did it!"
Keep going...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Help everyone! I just had a really horrible call with my W! First I find out from HER that my lawyer is dropping me because I haven't responded AFTER I told him I had no time to talk to him and would get back to him. Than she said "Why don't we just talk about this". I said that wasn't a good idea but I let her rope me into talking. I couldn't believe all the crap she was spewing. Now she's been unhappy since the first day of our M, so much so she was getting sick and would be dead if she didn't leave. Then she went on a rant saying that she was "still having to take care of me" because I'm on her insurance and she has paid more for stuff for D14. That the house I live in is "half hers" and that I live there rent free. I pointed out SHE left the house on her own and that until the D is final that is how it works, I live here only because she moved out! That my wanting to get back the money that was cashed out of my retirement and to pay her student loans is just "unfair" because I shouldn't have cashed it out and that her loans were payed for with "her half" of money from tax returns.
Then things got personal. I was "mean" to my D19 until she (W) asked for a D. That "all kinds of people" had told her that I was "mean" to my D19 for years and she told me time and time again that I should be nicer to her. That "everyone" was unhappy until she asked for a D, meaning me, and my D's. When I said that only she see's it that way, that the girls weren't unhappy, she said that they are just saying that to be nice and not hurt my feelings! Here I am trying to make some money, any money and get through this course and she's doing this!
She thinks that she is entitled to half of everything even though she brought $30,000 in debts and I brought in $50,000 in assets that we used to live on to the M. I told her all I wanted was what I had coming to me by law and that my lawyer told me that I had a right to recover that money. She said that my lawyer is just telling me what I want to hear and that her lawyer is trying to "help" me!
When I told her that, like I said at the start, this isn't a good idea and that I need to talk to my lawyer she went personal. Brought up things from 21 years ago and acted like they had just happened. Refused to believe that she said things that she had said. Told me that I was acting like a jerk. If anyone remembers the time right after she left that I asked about maybe keeping an antique clock we bought at her grandmothers estate sale and she freaked out in front of the kids and her BFF, well she now says she was "as calm as could be" and that I was being so loud and angry her BFF thought I was going to hit her! I can't believe that! After she left I apologized to my D's and they both said I had nothing to be sorry about. That they couldn't believe how she was acting and I did exactly the right thing. W has it backwards.
To top it off, now that she has left she is so very happy. She no longer is on anti-depressives (she probably should be), her health is better, blah, blah.
I broke a lot of DB rules tonight but not all. I really, really tried to listen and validate when I could but the biggest rule I broke was letting her rope me into a talk to begin with! I have been fighting being so depressed and trying to hang on by my fingernails. She even says that I never said that she shouldn't move so far south in case I couldn't get a job south. She freaked out when I said this saying I NEVER said such a thing. I most certainly did! And I told her I didn't think D14 should be in a school so far away. She has the guts to say that she put her in that school because it was where D14 wanted to go. That is so untrue. D14 wanted to go to school closer to me but farther from her and one of her friends mother offered to take her in the morning but W didn't want to be "beholden" to anyone. I should have fought her harder on this.
I hate what has happened to her and how she has now changed everything. She is no further along in getting through her MLC than the day she bombed me. She may even be worse. I had to hear again how she didn't love me from the day we M and that we should have D'd years ago. That if she had kept working she would have left years ago. She only had our kids because she wanted kids, even though she "didn't love or want me". How am I supposed to care about this person? How can she say it was all an act, that inside, the entire time, she was dying. Than she ends saying she "cares" about me and wants me to be happy! Really? She sure has a great way to show it!
Right now I'm angry at myself for allowing this to happen. I'm angry at her for saying that I was such a bad father when I was the one who took the kids everywhere, who had to feed them, take them to get prom dresses for God's sake because she couldn't be bothered...but of course that's MY fault because I "made" her unhappy. I want to hate her but I don't hate her really. I hate the way she is thinking and acting. The way she turns things around like the way she acted about the clock. I watched her lose every friend she ever had because she always was somehow slighted by them and just stopped talking to them. I watched her stop caring about her kids and her M and now blames me for HER actions. She says that I did things I never did, said things I never said, felt ways I never felt and uses those things to justify her own behaviors. She may be in crisis, but according to her, she's happier than she has been in 20 years because she left. How am I supposed to care about someone like this?
My goodness I'm spinning! I hope someone is out there that can help bring me down.
Dude, we've all heard this. It's MLC man. She's nuts. I was accused of all sorts of stuff, heard the "never should have married", terrible husband, awful father, miserable excuse for a man.....it's all script buddy.
At one point I was accused of having mafia connections. When the judge gave custody of our youngest to me, I was accused of having connections in the justice department.
It's hard not to take it personal, but you have to let it roll man. It's typical MLC garbage.
Tad
Currently: M 56 XW 57 Sons 38,33,31,29
The Sitch: Married 26 years EA w/ OM 9/10 Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary) Sep 12/10 She wants D 1/11 W files 5/11 D final 10/11 XW marries OM 6/13
Thanks Tad, I know this in my head. I know she isn't seeing things the way they truly are and were. But in my heart it still stings so much. To top it off towards the end of the call she says "I do care about you and want you to be happy". Uh? Well, she sure has an odd way of showing this! It doesn't help that I'm so darn close to getting my sh!t together and getting a new job (which will need my attention, not all the crap she is wanting from going before a judge to mediation) but need to finish a course I haven't the time for AND learn all this new stuff that the course is teaching me while getting bombed by lawyers, the IRS, the electric and water companies, etc. It's all almost too much to take. I was hanging on by a thread and she pulls this? Cares about me my butt!
She is actually worse, not better! She is deeper into her fantasy world where she is the victim and I am the awful ogre then ever! I have left her totally alone. I NEVER initiate contact with her. I haven't once asked her for anything or said a single bad word. I have listened to her spews and tried to validate. For all this I get this hateful "oh, I am so broke and have to take care of you" crap when I already feel bad because I can't afford to help my girls more with money.
I actually thought about ways to hurt her tonight. Ways to make her life so much harder and give her a taste of what MY life has been like the last 2 years because of her. I HATE this. I don't want to be a vindictive person and hurt her back. I do still care about her in some ways as i KNOW she may come out of this some day and see the truth of her actions. I want to be able to just say "Too bad that she had to go through this, I tried but she wouldn't listen" and move on! Let her go on her journey and get on with my life but she won't let me! She is in such a hurry but won't give in to what I think is fair.
Oh how the holiday season is going to be so much fun!
Welcome to the world of shysters. Clearly f your lawyer sent that letter it was because your divorce is a loosing proposition for him. Lawyers will get as much money from you as they can and then drop you as fast as they can when it runs out.
If your lawyer has dropped you I would not rush out to replace him. Given your present financial situation I would first look into whether you can self represent your self for now. If you can then I would look around and see if you can find a lawyer that will just look over legal documents and coach you through the process without actually representing you in court. This may work for you. if it doesn't then you can always get a new lawyer later to represent you.
Yes your wife is probably worse. I truely believe they have to hit rock bottom before they can maybe start to heal. Your wife has not gotten there yet, so it may get worse and uglier. That is her problem and you have to put up a wall and stop taking it personally. I had to learn this lesson. Others here have learned this lesson. You will learn this lesson. At some point you will get burned enough that you will finally be able to detach your emotions from it.
Regard what is fair. The best thing I heard the other day is when you both are unhappy with the results then it will be a fair agreement.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
I am sorry that your W was on an epic spewfest yesterday. That type of spew leads me to suspect that FIL probably "talked" nasty to her about you and how ungrateful you all were to W. Then W most likely turned to you and turned on the spew works.
It is so hard not to take this personally. You have to remember that W isn't rational at all and it's no use arguing back or trying to rationalize with irrational. Try to keep your responses short like "I am sorry you feel this way", "I can imagine how you would feel this way", "Thank you for sharing."
Next time, I would suggest that you cut this type of phone convo short because you have to be somewhere in 10 minutes. This is a good technique to nip the spewfest in the bud...so to speak.
Thanks Wonka, I was up until 5:00 AM last night trying to understand how in the world I got here. I can remember all the times that I put myself and what I wanted on the back burner so that my W could do what SHE wanted. How many times she told me how lucky she was that I was there for her. How lucky she was to be M to her "best friend". I think you are right about her father talking to her. Her lawyer was ready to drop her last I heard and FIL has been paying the bills. I swear I heard his voice when she was saying some of the things she did last night!
One thing I noticed is that she has all these perfect memories from 20 years ago. Remembers all these things she says happened but can't seem to grasp that that was 20 years ago when we were in a very bad financial position. We were broke and had just moved to where we are now. I worked my butt off getting us out of that place and did well. Then she has zero memories of things that happened just a couple years ago when she first went into her MLC. She places no value on the things she has taken but way too much value on 10 year old appliances that won't last much longer.
I think the worse part was her telling me how much "happier" she is now that she has left. That and how I so mistreated our oldest D! She even went so far as to tell me that, when she was depressed and D19 was around 15-16 she acted out, got into trouble, etc. She did this because her mother was just not there. Physically she was but she spent all her time sleeping and moaning about how bad she felt. I know this because at the time D and I talked. I had to explain to my D that her mom wanted to be there, wanted to be like she had been but was sick. Now W is telling me D acted out because I was "too hard" on her? That is just so hitting me where she knows it hurts because I have tried so damn hard to be the best father I can. I put my kids first in every way. Stayed in crappy jobs that I hated so I could pay for their school while W refused to go back to work even after they were in school (we had always planned on her going back to work when they went to school). Even her not paying her student loans is my fault. Yes, she has even found a way to blame me for that! How the girls just don't want to hurt my feelings by telling me how miserable they were for the last 10 years. How I'm the one projecting that the kids were happy not her projecting that they were just as unhappy as her!
I really, really dislike who she has become. She has made choices that hurt her kids and knows this but doesn't care. I have no respect for her any longer. How do you respect a person who takes no responsibility for their own actions and feelings? Who blames anything and anyone for their own failures? I see such a damaged person who is hurting the people I care most about in this world and not caring that she is.
I tried to stand for my M. I tried to see that she was in crisis, probably still depressed. I tried to just get out of her way but she just can't stop herself. Her father will be gone soon. When this happens I can see that she will be lost. I watched him hurt her for years and there was nothing I could do about it. Now the last thing he is going to do is make sure her M is over before he leaves and then what? My W does not have what it takes to be anything near the mother to our D14 that she needs to be. If only I didn't have that to worry about. I already see how what her mother has done and is doing is hurting her, changing her.
I see a person who tells herself lies and starts believing her own lies. One small example is that she said that just dropping me from her health insurance would drop her payments over $100 A WEEK. I could have gotten better coverage at my old company for $254 a MONTH. But she is telling me I cost her $100 a WEEK? That is so ridiculous just on the face of it but she is so certain of this and won't listen.
The most dangerous kind of liars are the ones that believe their own lies. That is who my W has become.
Back to studying for your new job, amigo...that IS in your control.
I know the spew hurts, I do, but it's what they do. Like a tornado, not much you can do but stay out of its path as much as possible and look out for what you can do to minimize damage. Getting mad at the tornado affects it none. Use the anger to push yourself on taking care of YOUR needs and priorities.
Go for a walk/run, get your body moving, get it out physically, then back to studying, etc., right?
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Hi T2, Yes you are so right! I got a text from W. Asking me to look to see if she left any gloves here followed by a smiley face! Hours of spew last night and smiley face texts today? Crazy is about right. I think that a combo of already being on the ragged edge with my money problems and having to get this course done and getting some money and having the lawyer problems and the IRS, etc. along with the fact that I have stayed so very dark and avoided having ANY talks about the D or R since she left so the hurt from her old spews had faded somewhat hit me really hard.I let myself believe that maybe, just maybe W had been mellowing a bit as well. Bad thought there...expectations are the enemy!
I am going to pick D14 up from school today just so I can see her. That usually helps me to get back on tract since it reminds me that I must keep moving for her as much as myself!
Thanks mirage! Wonka, well, you were right on the money! I dropped D14 at her mom's house after school. She was sullen and seemed almost angry at me. I couldn't get more than 2 words from her and then asked about her latest "boyfriend" and she told me he broke up with her by text message today! She needed to just stew for awhile so I left her be. As I was backing out of the driveway some jerk towing a camper was in my way and not moving. I finally pulled out and when I did I realized it was FIL! I'm willing to bet he has been there since TG. No wonder W went on a spew, I'm sure he was bad mouthing me this whole time, bringing sh!t up from 20+ years ago, egging her on. It also explains why the "insert holiday message here" texts from W to the girls on TG. The longer she is around him, the worse she becomes. I'm more convinced than ever that when he dies, W will go down a very deep rabbit hole!
So, I'm pretty sure FIL has been egging her on and told her to call me. So, you were right, Wonka. FIL has had so little contact with me and the kids, I can tell when it's his chit she is spewing. The bringing up things from when we first were M, the things about older D...all the stuff that W told me was why FIL "doesn't like you" in several of her earlier spews.
Wow, Wonka, very observant of you!
mirage, You are so right and I really didn't want to listen. W has this way of goading me into a "talk" that I really don't want to have. I think it also explains why the smiley face texts today....she knows she got to me and is happy that I'm unhappy now. She just wanted to be sure that I felt as awful as she does and now that she knows this, she's happy now! I need to NEVER let her do this again!
Matt, to say that things with her are toxic, is an understatement. She seems to get angry at things and you're the whipping boy. You really need to remove yourself from that. When you do, you'll see the patterns and see things differently. Seriously.
I could have written that post of yours at one time in my past. I feel for you, but I also see the other side amigo.
You can't see the forest for the trees at the moment. It's still too close. Too personal, even though it isn't.
For perspective - she tells you about her re-remembered past. Where was all that before? She has a hard time and "vents" by taking it out on you. Then doesn't feel good about it, and retreats. Or seems giddy and happy (now that she's unloaded on you).
The only person that can break that cycle is you. She won't do it. She doesn't have the tools to do it.
As long as you care what she re-remembers or thinks, you'll walk into that meat grinder time and again. I know. I've been there too. I have the t-shirt and scars to go with it.
T2 once remarked that for him a time came when he realized his life was his. No more blaming her.
I'll go a step further. No more looking to her for a shared past or for validation of past experience.
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The most dangerous kind of liars are the ones that believe their own lies. That is who my W has become.
If you believe that, then you need to take the appropriate action. Know what that is? Hint: it's not to prove her wrong or expose her lies. It's not to out-parent her or compete in any way.
She's her and has her issues.
You are YOU and have your own as well.
There's no need to hear her 1.5 hour rants. It serves no purpose.
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You have to remember that W isn't rational at all and it's no use arguing back or trying to rationalize with irrational.
Break the cycle. Can you think of ways to do that? Without things needing to be "fair" or called out? But in a way that works for you? There's no need for anger to be shown when doing that. She won't like it. She'll try to hang on to her punching bag. But you can stop the cycle. YOU have that power and do not need to keep going back for more.
What you're doing is going down a cheese less tunnel.
Break the cycle.
Question: Do you feel like you need her approval of your actions? Why?
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Good stuff AJ and right on the mark I believe. As for your last question, no I don't need her approval but it still does bother me that she really seems to believe that her actions are totally justified and uses her re-remembered past to "prove" to me how justified her actions are. I have noticed that, unlike in the past (pre-b-day) she doesn't seem to want to even allow me to speak. She will ask me a question and I'll get the first few words out and she jumps down my throat before I can even come close to making my point. This bothers me because it shows she doesn't care what I have to say about anything, she knows what she knows and that's that. This is a total change in who she once was before MLC.
It also shows me that co-parenting is going to be almost impossible. When a problem comes up she is going to want to do things her way (or worse, her fathers) and won't listen. The last thing D14 needs is one parent saying one thing and another something different. Co-parenting also means that I will have to be part of her damn life for years. I know the pain she has caused D19 and I see no way she won't be doing the same to D14.
I feel like I have back tracked a bunch over this. I feel almost like I did in the beginning. I need to get my life back and to do that I need to get my new job going and finish what I need for ME. I'm sick of W's constant need to get her way, to blame and spew and ask for favors and to expect nothing in return.
Thanks AJ, you have some excellent insights. I'm glad you made it through and I will as well.
First off Matt throw the word coparent out of your vocabulary. It isn't going to happen any time soon. So get rid of the fantasy land idea that you will be working together to raise your daughter. You will have to be the best parent you can be and deal with the crap as it comes. Don't live your life anticipating it, just calmly deal with each situation as it comes along and move on. I am living the same situation, just a bit further along than you.
The not allowing to speak or being impatient when you try to speak is typical. My wife was the same. I could even begin to speak and she would be luck like hurry it up, get it out, I don't really want to hear this and this is why you are wrong. I think it is one of the phases they can go through. You have to just move on again and see if she comes out the other side. You seem to keep getting stuck on the part about she isn't the person she was before. You need to get over this hump and accept right now she isn't that person and may never be again.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
Hi LT, I was hoping that maybe when it came to D14, W could at least be decent enough to put aside her selfish crap. A fantasy I know. I also have been thinking that if FIL and his W have been there all week, D14 has been subjected to their chit the whole time. I know they speak badly of me and her sister in front of her plus she probably heard W on phone spewing at me. D14 has changed so much in the last few months since her mother moved and not in good ways. My MIL has also noticed this and is upset by it. One of my biggest fears has been that my FIL would influence her and now he does. Of all the people in the world to have around her, he is about the worst.
I was wondering if the not allowing to speak thing was part of the script. You know, the "funny" thing about the MLC's is that they have no idea what a cliché they truly are! They think they are being their true self when they are just following the script of the madness in their heads. I'm not sure that I'm stuck on the fact that she's not the person she was as much as how ugly the person she has become really is. It's just so weird how almost every decent part of who she was has just gone away. In their place are such annoying and ugly traits that are exactly the opposite of the good aspects of her personality. The fact is she is becoming more and more like her father and that is about as ugly as you can get!
You can only find one funny thing about them, Matt? You're not really trying
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I was wondering if the not allowing to speak thing was part of the script
My thought? They already had the conversation and they don't have the self-confidence (of a turnip?) to be able to withstand any other opinion than the one they already rehearsed in their head. I.e. they have had the conversation so many times and think that they know what you'll say, that you being there is really just to get it over with so they can stop hearing the words in their heads. Hence the next day feeling like a tea pot that tipped over and poured out their steam. During the time I spoke to my ex it was more like she couldn't hear vs. wouldn't. So much pressure trying to get out but she couldn't figure out how. In the beginning, I would "help" (I thought I was helping; silly me) by picking a fight. I went with my instincts. But once I realized (shortly) that I was just a punching bag? I stopped. My daughter noticed it. She asked me once about. She said, "daddy, you need to pick a fight with mom so she'll calm down" Nope. Not the punching bag.
That's what it seems like, but who really knows?
As LT mentioned, throw that concept out of the vocab. You can only co-parent when there's a "co". You needed to find out if it was possible. Now you know.
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I know they speak badly of me and her sister in front of her plus she probably heard W on phone spewing at me.
this won't be fun, but is that something you feel you should nip in the bud? What if you did? What if you don't? What do you as a father need to do here?
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no I don't need her approval but it still does bother me that she really seems to believe that her actions are totally justified and uses her re-remembered past to "prove" to me how justified her actions are
Want to be free, Matt? If you do nothing else in the next few weeks, figure out why this bothers you and deal with it. Put it to rest because its a key element in the connection and disappointment and anger and....
Just for perspective, you're bothered by the opinion of a woman like that? One who can't/won't listen, goes on a tirade for hours without remembering (likely), does what she does to her kids, can't make her own decisions but instead relies on her father, blames you, etc....?
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
You need to just be the best father you can be for your D14 right now. you may feel you are loosing her for a while. Just keep being there and being the best you can be. She will figure things out and come back to you.
When my wife moved out with my three daughters, she and her family poisoned them so much they did not want anything to do with me. I did a lot of reading and sole searching. Regardless of what they said or did i stayed there for them. They eventually figured things out and now all three are living with me by their own choice.
So, don't loose faith. Time will expose everything. be strong and be there for your daughter.
I agree with AJ Matt, you need to take the time to figure things out and set yourself free. If you are still letting things like her approval get to you,you still have not detached. You need to do this so your new job won't suffer. Get your new job in order. Get your self back on track. Start to do some things for yourself, alone.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
Just my 2cents since I have a S14, some of your D14 changes may just be puberty changes, and not permanent changes.
I've been told kids at this age can be different!!!
Hang in there.
Me 43 ring off Oct 2014 (my ring back on Feb 2015) H 51 (ring off 7/2013) M 2007 T 1996 S 14 July 2013- H told me he was unhappy.....said he is staying for Son Feb 18 2014 Found out about OW
Thanks LT, AJ and 2B. The weirdness continues.....since W had her spew, she has been nicer than she has been in a long time. First the smiley face texts, the asking for something nicely instead of demanding...now she texts me this morning offering to have D14 stay until tomorrow so I don't have the 30 each way drive. Just pick her up tomorrow. I texted that would be great as I have been doing my courses non-stop and am a bit burned out. She texted back an offer to keep D14 longer if I needed the free time to study. Now, to her, that is actually a big thing as, unlike me, she see's having D14 as a "burden" where I love having her. I know she meant it as a good thing, not as a way to keep her away. I declined but thanked her for the offer.
Why, after that awful spew, is she suddenly being nice? Maybe, like AJ talked about, she has relived the pressure. Who knows? I have been thinking about what you guys asked...why do I care what she says or thinks. I'm not sure it's as much I care what she thinks but more of how unbelievably negative she has skewed the past 25 years. It just bugs me that she can say all this stuff, stuff she never once said a word about at the time and actually remember things so differently than I do! Also, the fact that she hits me in the things I'm most proud of. I have tried to be the best father I could and that was my #1 priority. To tell me that she left in part because I wasn't a good enough father when she hasn't been there for her kids in so long just angers me. All I ever got from her was how great a dad I was. All the times I had to be the one who did anything for my girls (I even had to go and get D19's prom dresses with her because her mom couldn't be bothered), how they could talk to me but not her about things that bothered them. How the 3 of us would try and find ways to get her to do something, anything, together as a family and were almost always disappointed. How can she still not see this. Just like her actually thinking she was "calm" when she freaked out about the clock when she went crazy even scaring her own kids. It just is so annoying. How am I ever going to come to anything close to a "fair' agreement with her when she is so delusional? It didn't help that I heard from her that my lawyer was dropping me! Add in the stress I'm already under from getting my chit done for the new job, making money, paying my bills and it just exploded in my head. I was already feeling so angry about how deep in the hole I'm going to be while trying to start over while she is sitting pretty. I never would have done to her what she did to me. I never would have left her before she went back to work when she was a stay at home mother, no matter how I may have felt about our M or her.
I am much better now. Although I am feeling very negative about her in general. Crisis or not, I just have lost all respect for her. For her to not even see her own bad behavior for what it is just really blows my mind. I guess it shouldn't since she isn't thinking rationally and to expect rational thinking from her is just stupid on my part. Time to just worry about me and what I need to do. I have got to stop letting her find ways to derail me no matter what!
Anger is part of it Matt. It can be the fuel that helps you do what you need to do. Or it can destroy you. You'll have to make that decision. In time.
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Why, after that awful spew, is she suddenly being nice? Maybe, like AJ talked about, she has relived the pressure. Who knows? I have been thinking about what you guys asked...why do I care what she says or thinks. I'm not sure it's as much I care what she thinks but more of how unbelievably negative she has skewed the past 25 years. It just bugs me that she can say all this stuff, stuff she never once said a word about at the time and actually remember things so differently than I do! Also, the fact that she hits me in the things I'm most proud of. I have tried to be the best father I could and that was my #1 priority. To tell me that she left in part because I wasn't a good enough father when she hasn't been there for her kids in so long just angers me. All I ever got from her was how great a dad I was.
Ok. I actually laughed out loud at that. Not because it hurts you, but because I've been there. You're not alone Matt. Not by a long shot. I heard and dealt with much of the same over the past 7 years. For me, it came on suddenly in so much as one minute she was professing her undying love and telling me how lucky she and the kids were, and the next her "re-remembering" the past to paint me as a horrendous monster and her as super girl. Literally. She actually went as super girl for Halloween that first year.
You should know that you were and are the best father you can be. She can say what she will - if you look at her track record I don't think it should really bother you much longer. I think you more or less want to be heard and not feel so nuts.
It will likely continue for a very long time, Matt. If you let it. If you don't, it will either go away or won't matter because as you hear such things (in case you have to) you'll hear the truth in your head.
Me? My ex did the same for years. Still tries and when she doesn't directly, her husband takes up the cause. In case she forgets, right? I stopped responding unless critical. I don't get angry when she tries to overstep her rights as a parent. I don't play games. I could cause all kinds of havoc for her, but that would just prolong me having to deal with her.
My last email exchange with her and OM? It started out as an innocuous request for insurance information that she turned into a dram filled tirade. Her OM finished it when he demanded my kids I tell them I don't love them because I won't do what their mom demanded. I didn't respond after I had already given the needed information.
This is years later, Matt. And that's just one instance. The accusations etc? There are many. I doubt she even remembers half of them. She's said as much when I reminded her she didn't want to be a co-parent (her words).
It's been said that happiness lies somewhere between what should be, and what is, Matt. I know what is. I know what should be. I do not (any longer) confuse the two.
You are not alone, Matt.
I don't think you should expect any different and I think you should be looking for ways to limit the conversation and interactions as much as possible. Be the first on your block. She'll try to paint herself as mom of the year at your expense. She will. It's what she knows from watching her own family. From her own need to be "right" and you "wrong". It won't really matter if its true or not. At least not for now. Years from now? Maybe, but not likely Matt. And this is not a stress you really need, is it? Put it down and walk away. You deserve that at the very least.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Thanks AJ, It does help to know I'm not alone. W also forgets all the things she's spewed and gets really angry saying "I would never say such a thing". When she complained that she had to pay for contact lenses, she got giddy when I said that I'm trying to pay for food, you want to get her contacts do it. She doesn't 'need" them she has glasses. She said "Oh, I'll be sure to tell her that you don't care if she get contacts", like she relishes a way to make me look bad.
In my case the OP is my FIL. The most passive/aggressive human on the planet. I'm certain he is feeding her just from some of the things she is saying. When he is no longer in the picture MAYBE she will settle down, maybe not, who knows.
I've pretty much been able to limit interactions which may be why this one was so bad. I started out saying I didn't want to talk and hash things out as I wasn't prepared to do that since I didn't even know my lawyer was backing out. She roped me in and that's all my fault...I can't let it happen again! I know that it's up to me to stop letting any of this get to me. I really think that once I get into this new job, I'll be better able to handle things as they come. I will have to spend most of my energy on getting going on the new job. I will say when I wasn't so stressed about money, I was much better able to hold my anger in check. When I have W saying she's paying $123 a WEEK for just my health insurance (which can't be true!) and is tired of "supporting me" and that we need to split expenses 50/50 for D14, even though she out earns me 8 to 1 and thinks the court will tell me that I have to pay 50% even knowing that I can't afford nearly as much as her, it drives me nuts! The court will take into consideration how much we each make, not just say "Even though you don't make enough to pay for half of everything you have to" it just seems to me that she is just so unable to even understand how things work but has no problem spewing about it. Again, I just need to not allow it to get to me! It's all on me now. I just need to step up. I also don't think it helps that now I have to find time to ca;ll my lawyer as well. Don't think it will help as he doesn't want to keep going because he's already been paid his flat fee. It only did flat fee because he thought it was going to be easy. Well, W made sure it wasn't easy and now he doesn't want to keep doing things for free in his mind!
In my case the OP is my FIL. The most passive/aggressive human on the planet. I'm certain he is feeding her just from some of the things she is saying. When he is no longer in the picture MAYBE she will settle down, maybe not, who knows.
That may or may not be true, but in the end, she is responsible for her own behavior. Nobody else. Just like you are for yourself.
I get the stress. I do. By offering a glimpse of other situations, I hope it helps you to put that into perspective and better deal with it. I strongly suggest you discard any expectations of your W. Any, no matter how reasonable. It'll help with the stress
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it just seems to me that she is just so unable to even understand how things work but has no problem spewing about it
I dunno. She might have a problem spewing about it. Especially if you're unavailable to hear it. But I think you're right - she doesn't understand and won't even when things happen. May as well beat your head on the wall for all the good it will do. At least you'll get some cardio out of it.
As for the lawyer? I'm sure you'll deal with it. If anyone is going to understand the value of a contract, it's a lawyer
Stay focused on you and your daughters. Give yourself that gift and know that the rest will work itself out regardless of what she thinks, says, or otherwise feels entitled to.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
UGG! Just talked to lawyers office. Seems that his secy. is saying that she left me a message on my cell phone that I had to get back to the lawyer or he was going to drop me and left his cell # for me to call. Well, my cell doesn't always get a signal at home (I can't make calls with it from home because of this but as long as I'm on Wi-Fi I can text) so I didn't get her message. She was really nasty about it and said she tried to not let this happen. I told her my cell wasn't working so I didn't get the message BUT, why, if it was so important that I was going to be dropped, didn't she call me at home? Maybe email me? Then she said that I took 10 days to call her back when I was sick! I said that if she had called I didn't know it. She also said that it's her experience that the "best" way to reach someone is by cell which is why she called me on that. She said that the hearing to drop me is in 3 days and I can go and try and stop him from doing it. I was really angry! She added that she would "talk to lawyer and let him know you were having issues with your phone" but from her tone I can tell she isn't going to be at ALL helpful. Hear I am, working for almost nothing but still trying, sending out resumes, having interviews, driving for Uber on weekends, trying to be a good father, studying for exam, trying to get started at new job and now this crap? Let's not even talk about W and her chit.
Anyone on here that knows anything about lawyers and dropping clients.... can they just call my cell phone, leave a message and when I don't get back to them drop me? They have my home phone and my email, I know that and have called my home in the past. I only get emails when they file something and I can't respond to those. I mean I paid this guy a flat fee so he can't make any more which is why I think he wants to drop me. I don't think he expected the D to take as much work....little does he know when dealing with MLCers, EVERYTHING is going to take long! What about the hearing? How does this work?
To top it off I got about 3 hours sleep last night. My D14 called asking for a ride to school this morning. She said her mom "can't" do it and it was really cold and damp so I felt bad for her and took her. So much for W "saving" me a trip to pick her up! It actually took more gas as I had to go all the way there instead of meeting them half way. I am having trouble studying because of lack of sleep.
I'm waiting for lawyer to call back so, please, if anyone can give me info about them dropping me let me know. Thanks!
Thanks T2 and Jack, What is a "timely manner" and what about them having to actually try? I mean if I was trying to reach someone and left a message and they didn't get back I would at least try their home number! As for getting a new lawyer, I can't afford one. Hell, I can't afford electricity! Not sure what I want to do. What I CAN do. Lawyer never called back. Not good, think that means he's done.
Picked up D14 from school today. Seems she heard her mothers spew at me and was upset about it. Her mom is just so crazy. Next week is D14's birthday, then X-mass after. W is just so stuck in her own world of thinking only of herself. I truly grieve for my D's, both of them. D14 also is upset because she loves her grandmother (my MIL) and hates how W has abandoned her and treats her fathers OW (now wife) more like a mother than her real mother. Amazing how the MLC just is so blind to the hurt they cause, how they just don't care even when they aren't blind to it. My W was so afraid of hurting other people in the past, now she doesn't care if she does or doesn't as long as she's getting what SHE wants, doing what she wants to do.
I no longer believe that she will ever come back. My hope is gone. I just need to start seeing her for who she really is....NOW. Forget the old her, forget the old R. I'll remember the good times of course. I'll share the stories with my kids of when things were good, when we were a family. How I loved their mother and them. I will watch them make families of their own. Make their mistakes and have their triumphs and I will always be part of their lives. I wasted so much of my life trying to understand how my W, the woman who swore we would grow old together, who I promised to love forever, disappeared before my eyes. I tried to do what I could for her but she can't escape the demons in her head. My fear is gone. Sure, I'm still very worried about how I will make it now that I let myself believe that she would be there for me like I was for her. I worry about how her actions will affect my D's (Just today D14 was saying how her mom was always so body conscious, so worried about her being "fat" or unattractive and it made her feel like if her mom, as thin and beautiful as she was, thought she was fat and unattractive, she must be huge and hideous. She said she's now "so over that". I'm so proud of her!). I'm sure I will find someone again, maybe this time someone able to love me back without the inability to "trust". A "drama free" R...that would be something to behold.
I bet you exceed the billable hours your lawyer give to any case before pulling the plug. I would not waste another cent on him. I would send him an email or certified letter asking him to prepare an itemized bill for you along with having your file prepared for you to pick up. Ask him for a time and date for when it will be ready. If he has actually done any work for you then it should all be in the file.
Next I would look into if your state allows you to be self represented. If they do, then go to the court house and get an appearance form, fill it out and submit it. This will buy you some time to figure out what you want to do.
One possibility at this point is to see if there are lawyers in your area that work on an hourly basis to advise and couch you, but don't represent you. They will look over documents and give you advise and will also couch you on how to act in court to prepare you. I am in the process of doing this my self.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
Hi LT, Actually, my lawyer took the case on a flat fee basis. He was not at all expensive compared with many others. I think he took it this way because he thought it was going to be easy. He saw that I was very reasonable, there wasn't a lot assets to split up and at the time my W was willing to let me keep our home. Since then, W has done her total turn around. When we got the first copy of what she wanted, it was full of all kinds of things that we had agreed we wouldn't do. W neglected to tell her lawyer about the student loan debt, the cashed in retirements, the antiques we bought and she kept. She is so afraid of having to pay child support and over values the things that she left and under values those that she took. Yet she is always going on about how "everyone thinks I'm being so reasonable". Everyone to her is her father and her D "friends" she works with.
The flat fee was already paid in full. The lawyer can't make any more. He wanted a way out is what I'm thinking. The D could have been so very easy just like my W thought it was going to be. The problem is nothing is either reasonable nor easy when dealing with a WAS in the middle of an MLC!!
I would start interviewing L's in your area and select a new one. I would not recommend that you represent yourself for this is too complicated and protect yourself legally from W's L pulling a fast one on you.
Google and call these people up: Legal Aid of NorthWest Texas and/or also Volunteer Legal Services of Central Texas. It's somewhere to start since you don't have reliable income yet and such.
Please do so buddy.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Thanks T2, I'll call them them tomorrow. I am so tired of the stress I have in my life! I now realize just how LITTLE stress I had in the past. Between the trying to get a sale at my job now, trying to find a new one, trying to keep the water and electric on, driving for Uber on weekends, now studying for exams, having to find a time to get together with the person I'm going to be working with, getting my D14 to and from school, helping her with school projects (had to go out and spend the little money I have for gas on a scrapbook and paper for a school project just tonight) and now my lawyer bugging out on me, I can't believe I'm not falling apart mentally and physically! It's crazy! When my W complains about how stressed she is I just shake my head and think what she would do if she were in my shoes. I think she'd just shut down totally! One good thing, if I get through this, I can't imagine anything that could happen that I won't be able to get through! If I can so completely lose so many of the most important parts of my life, not make any money and handle the end of a 21 year M all at the same time, a normal life will be a piece of cake!
Of course it helps that I have all my friends here on the forum for help! Thank you all!
Well, hello everyone! First, T2 you will be glad to know that I tried the places you suggested. Unfortunately, I live in the wrong county for them to help me. I did look up some other places that might help and found a group called CAAP. They are for people who are having trouble getting their lawyers to be responsive, in my case it was my lawyer who said I wasn't being responsive. They told me to write a letter to take with me to court spelling out the ways that I can be reached when they need me other than my cell. Show it to the judge and them. Ask questions like, since I paid for my D as a flat fee, will I be getting a refund? So, I was ready for my court date.
Funny thing that I noticed right away was that the paperwork listed my lawyer as a woman that works for him. As far as I knew she was a legal asst. She was the one that showed up in court. The judge asked her why they were dropping me and she said that it was impossible to "communicate" with me. He asked what that meant. She said since 11/14 they haven't been able to reach me (a lie as I spoke to them on 11/14). I told the judge that the only way they tried to reach me was by cell, which wasn't working and that my last talk they said that the meeting they wanted to have wouldn't be until at least the first week in December so I wasn't expecting a call. The judge asked about how I paid and when I told him that I paid a flat fee of $2500 he asked her if I would get a refund! She stuttered and said she would have to "ask my boss". In the end the judge chastised both me and her saying I need to respond better and that he is worried that they are just going to find another way to drop me since they don't like working with me. Her for not trying more than my cell. He said he wasn't going to dismiss the petition but would live it open saying that they need to work with me and for me to try and be more available.
After I spoke with the woman who is supposed to be my lawyer and I told her that I HAD to concentrate on getting a new job as I had NO money and was struggling. I told her I had found a new job but that I needed to pass an examine before I could start and that was more important and that I was still trying to make money at my present job. She told me that a big reason that her boss was upset was because my W's firm has been calling and bugging them 2 times a day! Seems that W is in a big hurry to get this done and over with and in turn they have been on them. Last that I heard, W's lawyer wanted us to go to mediation or appear before a judge and let him decide sans lawyers. To me this is them looking for a way to avoid court and a "real" trial. Seems FIL is wanting to save his money. Of course, my lawyer, having no way to make MORE money, also doesn't want to go to trial! I should have known that my W was behind all this in some way as she as asked me two times about my lawyer since she told me that her lawyer told her my lawyer was dropping me. She should be hoping that I don't lose my lawyer as that would make it more likely that it takes longer!
My only worry now is that my lawyer is going to just want to give up everything to get it over with. He has once or twice before, after getting something from my W's lawyer seemed to think they were making sense...that is until I gave him more info (like the student loans and my cashing in my retirement). I think, as a young lawyer, he isn't as "sure" of himself and listens to what an older, seasoned, lawyer like my W's says. I don't like that but I also don't have money for another one (at least not yet). I'm going to look into what I can do if he says to take something I don't think is fair, just in case. Of course I need to find time and that isn't something I have right now. Well, Merry Christmas from MLC land, I think W wants this over with in time for the New Year and she is and FIL are pushing to get that done.
Your lawyer cannot accept anything with out first passing it by you for your agreement. If you wife is in a hurry to get it done, you are in the driver seat. Keep strong to what you want and don't back down. Make sure you pay attention to every form of contact and if you have any questions about something you are uncomfortable with then come here first before responding. If they push for a response then say you are reviewing it and will get shortly.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
Hello everyone. I need some advice, badly. Well, my lawyer is still on my case for now. He and my W's lawyer (and W) are in a big hurry to get things over with and finalize the D. I am realizing that this is not what I want. I realize now that part of the reason this bothers me is because of the fact it is the last step. After this, my M is well and truly over. My family as it was is over. Not only that, the timing, during the X-Mass holiday's is also a problem as it will be a reminder every year of the end of 21 years of M and the pain my W has caused those that love her the most. Not only has the holiday season not slowed my W or given her any pause, it has seemed to have the opposite effect. She seems more desperate than ever to get the "cure" to all that pains her, the end of her M. She still seems to think that it will be the magic cure all for her. She left the weekend of my D19's birthday which means that every year on her birthday we will be reminded of her leaving, now she wants the holiday's (and my D14's birthday, which is this week) to be a reminder of the final nail in the coffin of our M. I'm starting to think that my W acting on the girls birthdays isn't a coincidence. It may in fact be a reminder to her that she is getting older and THAT is one of her biggest fears...that she is running out of time. Just like so many MLCers, she has been obsessed that she must do this as time is short.
I'm sure the fact that my life is not yet in control, that I haven't yet started my new job and and gotten my financial house in order from the hit I took because of my W's great timing, is also weighing on me. I would like to at least have started getting things in order before I have to deal with finalizing the D. Her journey of total selfishness is still in full swing, I see zero progress toward self awareness, no realization of her own part in how she has gotten to where she is now. I really believe she has much, much more "baking" to do before she is even close to getting through her MLC. Way too much time needed to "wait" her out. In fact, she probably needs to get the D she seems to think is the ultimate answer before she will ever make any real progress. I would just rather that it didn't happen now.
I don't have the time and energy I really want to have for this meeting right now. Going in broke, trying to study for a new job, work the job I have now, not let the people I work with now know I plan on leaving, etc. isn't how I want to be. I want to be in a better position, more stable, more in control. I just don't see a way to keep her and her lawyer at bay until I can make progress on those fronts. My own lawyer seems to want to get things over and done asap. Of course part of me doesn't want to ever need to do this. You know that tiny sliver of hope that we all have that our S will somehow "wake-up" and stop the madness. That I do understand is just a fantasy. I realize that. I just would rather go into this strong and in control!
Anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I just best off doing this now and getting it over with? Am I missing anything that I just haven't seen yet?
Christmas is next week. What are the odds that they can get everything ready to go to court as well as get a time in court set so you can finalize this? I don't see it happening. My guess is the best it can happen is during the first couple weeks of January. I was asked the question last week and given the idea it will be happening for me this week. Again, no movement. I suspect that a date of January 8 will be used since we already had an appearance set for that date. So, I would not get worked up over what will probably not happen.
I agree with your assessment that you wife needs to get the D out of the way to make room for her to hopefully start to get well. My wife is the same situation. Until their fixation is cleared out of the way and they learn the truth they will not make any progress.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
this bothers me is because of the fact it is the last step. After this, my M is well and truly over. My family as it was is over.
This is scary, and sad. I felt that, still do every now and then for a few minutes. Not what we wanted, not what we pictured our lives becoming. But it is reality, which we need to accept and let go of the life we thought we wanted, and build the new life that is being given to us. <--- and that is kinda scary too, isn't it? Until it turns into the excitement of a new adventure, with you in the driver's seat...
Quote:
I want to be in a better position, more stable, more in control. I just don't see a way to keep her and her lawyer at bay until I can make progress on those fronts. My own lawyer seems to want to get things over and done asap.
Can you define a date...like LT said, after the holidays? You know why they are pushing, both lawyers. Maybe see if you saying, "We can meet January 6th, not sooner" will work?
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Thanks guys, So, called my lawyer. I got his message last night after work, called back at lunch today and they say "Can you come in at 2:00 today"? I can't. I have to be 52 miles away for a meeting that may allow me to (finally) make some money. She gets upset saying my lawyer is going on vacation starting tomorrow and then asks "When did I call, a couple days ago?". No, she called YESTERDAY and I got back the next day. She is trying to say I was ignoring her call! I mean a couple days ago would be Saturday, I doubt that she would have called on a weekend. She gets huffy and says she will need to talk to my lawyer and call back. This is such a pain. I feel like my lawyer is more concerned with doing what my W's lawyer wants then what I want. Maybe if they weren't so concerned with trying to drop me and had set up a meeting before his vacation instead, we wouldn't be here now. My cell is only working when it's plugged in to a power source so I can't call back right away as I have to get the message first. This seems to really bug my lawyers office. I hate that I have to deal with this, my D14's birthday is today as well. My D19 is having problems with her boyfriend and wants my help getting to work as well. Added to all the other stuff that you already know I'm dealing with and I may just explode.
This is my life now solely because of my W and her MLC. I need to get my life in order. I need to stop this madness. That has to come first because I can't live this way. 15 years of working and doing better and better each year . If my W had left before I started this new business I wouldn't be in this position. No, she waited until I needed her the way she had counted on me for so long. Until I actually thought I could trust her.
I have to get past this point. I am close IF I can get this testing done. I am starting to feel like the universe is against me, like I'm being punished for something I didn't do. What I did do was trust my W totally. I trusted that she was honest when she said we would always be together, that she would back me, that we were in this life together. It was this total trust in her that has gotten me to this point. It is a lesson. A lesson about the nature of people in general and how it is one needs to live their life. I understand now that my biggest mistake was trusting anyone as totally as I did my W. I shouldn't have allowed myself to be as exposed as I was. I should have made certain that if something happened I would be at least somewhat protected but I didn't. I will never trust anyone totally again as long as I live. If I couldn't trust the person I devoted myself to, that I raised a family with, that went through good times and bad together for over 25 years, how can I ever trust another soul?
It's still hard for me to be selfish. I still tend to think of others first, including my W. When she asks for something from me I still provide it (the latest being some things from our home that were given to us and she wanted because she was having a X-mass party for her workmates). I still go out of my way for my daughters (something I will keep doing until my dying day. I won't let my W's actions change that). I still tend to be overly loyal to those I work for and with...but I am making progress. Still, it makes me somewhat sad. Sad to think that we are all at least somewhat alone in this life. That you can't trust anyone totally no matter how long you have been together or what they have promised or what words they have said. From now on I will only trust family, real family by blood. This is the gift my W has given me. She has shown me that total trust is for the foolish. I can only hope that she learns some lessons of her own. If not just for herself but for the sake of her daughters and their futures.
I'm sorry that you're having a rough time keeping things afloat while swimming upstream on this D negotiation.
1) Are you able to get your old job back where you made very good money? Possible? 2) If you aren't happy with your own L, then can you seek out a different one?
You can only control the controllable. Focus on that, buddy.
I'm sorry you are struggling now. Things will get better. Hopefully you get to spend some quality time with your D today on her birthday.
You can do this. Keep at it!
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
Thank you Wonka and Georgia, To answer your questions Wonka, the company I worked for went out of business very unexpectedly. I could have gone and worked for some other company in the same field but after talking it over with my W and making sure she knew it would mean a few years of less money and that her salary would be our main source of income until things got stable, decided to start this business with some colleagues. Since then I have looked into some of the places that I would have tried back then and they just aren't hiring. In fact, they are cutting back. As for the lawyer, he was paid a flat fee and I can't afford to start over with a new one and the expense that would bring.
Georgia, thanks for the kind thoughts. I didn't get to see my D today as she was with her mother. We did celebrate with her sister this weekend and had fun. She also called me tonight and we spoke. She knows I miss her and how much I care, knows that she means more to me than I can ever say. Of this I am certain. I will say that I am proud of both my girls and how they are weathering the whole sitch. They are very unhappy with their mother, much more than she seems to think but both are getting on with their lives as best as they can. Changing in ways they never expected to need to. My D (now 15!) is getting all "A's" at the public school where the classes aren't as advanced, learning how to make new friends with new and different kinds of people than she has known before. My D19 is working as many hours as she can, learning fast how to live on her own. I do wish I could help her more than I have been able with money but she also knows I will always be there when she needs me and I will do all in my power for her. They both have lost much of their innocence but they also have for the last few years since their mother started her MLC, had to learn to deal with the fact that they couldn't count on their mother for much. Towards the end before my W left, they just stopped expecting her to do anything for or with them. They were less surprised by my W's leaving than I was in some ways.
I'm feeling very sad. Sad that my W is so intent on burning every last tie to me and throwing away every shred of the last 26 years. She has a new BFF. A college student that is interning at her work. Again, someone 25 years younger than her, the age she so longs to go back to. She knows that I am trying hard to get my new life going and am so very close. She knows that by pushing now she is making that much harder but doesn't care. Even now, she is trying to hurt me, piling on more pressure. I think she doesn't like that I am so close still to the girls. She reacted badly hearing that D19 was coming to celebrate her sisters birthday this weekend. What she doesn't understand is if she made an effort like I do to be in her D19's life I'm sure D19 would want that. What bothers D19 most is that her mother just won't make the effort. When she told me she needed someone to give her a ride from where she lives so she could come for her sisters birthday, I went. Her mother refuses to do the same. Something as simple as taking the hour and 15 min's to go get her is too much for W to be bothered with. I just don't understand this! Why is that asking too much? I get to see how hurt this makes my D, how angry it makes her that her own mother can't be bothered. Why can't her mother see it as well? W told me that D doesn't hurt kids, it's how the parents behave during and after that is either hurtful or not. Well, so far my W seems intent on acting in ways that are hurtful and shows no sign of stopping anytime soon. Just one more way to destroy the person that I loved, a person who, IMO and many others, was a much better one than who she has chosen to become. Like GGG, I'm starting to see just how long I have put up with bad behavior from my W. All the ways over the past years that she made things harder and acted poorly. It makes me sad and also makes me wonder why did I put up with it? I should have seen and made sure that she couldn't hurt me as badly as she did. Instead I just tried harder, made more and more effort at "making" her happy. That was such a huge mistake and I only have myself to blame.
Matt, I have been following your posts for a long time, and meaning to post everytime there was correlation to my situation. So that would have been many many times.
I can only advise at this stage to let go, and go with the flow.
It reminds me of the Serenity Prayer adopted by AA
Like you, I wound myself up, as to the why's and wherefores as to why this was happening to me, to the extent I had a heartattack.
I now look back, and know my wife was not worth it, does not deserve headspace for what she has done to my kids and me. I am so much better off without her, and you will get there oneday. The quicker route is letting go.
Matt, I have been following your posts for a long time, and meaning to post everytime there was correlation to my situation. So that would have been many many times.
I can only advise at this stage to let go, and go with the flow.
It reminds me of the Serenity Prayer adopted by AA
Like you, I wound myself up, as to the why's and wherefores as to why this was happening to me, to the extent I had a heartattack.
I now look back, and know my wife was not worth it, does not deserve headspace for what she has done to my kids and me. I am so much better off without her, and you will get there oneday. The quicker route is letting go.
I know! easier said than done !
Matt, I second that thought ^^^. And can say things have turned out similarly. My boys and I are better off without her as she is. My youngest took stbxw to task about the last 3 years last week, about how he felt she wasn't there for him or anyone else but herself, how selfish she was and still is, and some other things which she would not share with me.
The truth does prevail in the end, Matt. Maybe not as quickly as we would prefer, but it still does eventually.
As far as your feelings and thoughts about trust? True, the kind and level of trust we had for our spouses will be difficult to re-establish, BUT...and this is just from my sitch and perspective, once you recover and start interacting with mentally and emotionally healthy people that what you experienced as trust wasn't what trust necessarily is, maybe that a different need/fear of ours was coloring our definition.
With stable, healthy people who have done the work on themselves, know themselves, and that they have learned that they are responsible for their own happiness, trust looks completely different. It's much better, and more true, imo.
Let me toss an idea out...
The blind trust we had was a necessary internal justification we created for all the hoops and stuff we went through trying to "make" our spouses happy (which we know now we don't have the power to do). Just a thought to noodle over.
Back to priorities...keep plugging away at the training, being there for your awesome D's...keep putting one foot in front of the other and YOU WILL get to the other side. Trust the process, trust yourself, trust God.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
MLC plays out differently, it goes longer, the LBS can be seen as a doormat with the BS we generally say you should endure...
However,
When it comes to a divorce and lawyers all that goes by the wayside. You lawyer up and get the baddest meanest attack dog, who is in it for you. You can alway be gracious and concede points later, but you want to make sure you have the lawyer who has the ability to mop the floor with your wife's lawyer.
While you might think you can't afford a lawyer now...you're going to feel that way for years if her lawyer destroys yours.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Nice hearing from you Smurf, thanks once again T2 and Jack!
I really think that the stress of my business not working, the IRS problems, having no money, trying to pass an exam, etc. is just adding so much pressure to the D sitch it's holding me back from just being able to deal. I have found that I am much better when I'm not worrying about how I'm going to pay my bills and afford food. It's almost like I reach a point where I just can't hold it all and it all over flows and I think how much easier this would all be if my W hadn't bugged out. Right now I need to fight past the tendency to just "shut down" when I get over-whelmed by it all and just keep moving forward. It just seems like just when I am making progress, it's my W that finds some new way to slow me down and add more and more stress. Every time I have started to feel like I'm going to make it, that I will get this one important thing done (like passing my exams), my W finds some new thing to distract me from my goal. If she would just leave me be for just long enough to get through one important thing, that would allow me some breathing room but she won't. What she doesn't seem to understand is all that she is doing is making me less likely to give up anything that I don't absolutely have to in the D. She really can't be rational when it comes to this and really thinks that she is totally going to get whatever she wants and is being "more than fair" but ignores the facts....typical irrational thinking from an MLCer. Her inability to see things as they really are and were over the years is making the whole process so much harder. She talks about things that happened 20 years ago like it was yesterday and "forgets" all the things that happened since. It's like dealing with a teenager but the stakes are so much higher.
T2, I really hope that I can get the chance to experience what you describe. I can see what you are saying about "real" trust. Looking back I can see all the hoops I jumped through trying to make my W happy and can see how I tried to "justify" it all in my own mind. How many times I would tell myself I made a promise to always be there for my W no matter how she acted. I see now just how damaged she really was and is and nothing I could have done would have made a bit of difference. She is going to have to realize on her own that she is the only one who can change, really and permanently change, the misery (her word) she feels and has felt for so long. Just today I heard something on the radio about a writer who was depressed. He had a great wife, his work was winning awards, he was making more money than he ever thought possible, in short his life was exactly what he always wanted it to be. But he also was so sad and depressed he almost committed suicide. It didn't matter how "good" his life was all he was able to feel was misery. I really think this is what my W went through and still is. She just can't see the good in anything because it all is clouded by her depression. She wants to believe that by leaving her M she will no longer be depressed. She stopped taking her meds when she left because she said she knew it was her M that caused her depression. She is desperate to stop the pain and wants to believe that just by D'g me, it will all just magically go away. I do have compassion for her sitch. It must be horrible to live like that but at the same time there is no reason for her to try and make my life worse, hold me back from just moving on.
Jack, you may be very right. The way my W thinks and see's things is just so skewed. She really believes the crazy stuff that any sane person would know couldn't be the real facts. I will give this lawyer a chance to try and come to terms. If I really feel he doesn't do a good enough job, maybe by the time we get to that point I will be in my new job and able to hire a better lawyer.
Thanks guys, I very much appreciate all your help. I am feeling so very low right now and it's hard to get all that I need to done in this state of mind. But the more I allow myself to get sidetracked, the worse things will become and the more pressure I will be under. Thanks for helping me get moving again!
He!!, why can't I catch a single break! Talked to my lawyer's office. They absolutely will not wait to have this meeting! They won't wait until my testing is done or after the holidays. I'm starting to feel like my lawyer works for my W! Now I have to give them dates when I will be able to have this "meeting". I know exactly what is going to happen. They are going to tell me to take whatever it is that her lawyer offers up and if I don't, tell me that they won't go to trial. There is no money in it for them because I paid a flat fee. I hate my W more now then I ever have in my entire life! I'm thinking of calling her and asking her why she can't wait until until my testing is done and I start my new job. I doubt it will get me anywhere but I want to hear her say it. I want to hear her tell me that she just doesn't care. The very last thing I needed from her was this. I can think of a few reasons why. The biggest being that her father is paying for her lawyer and is probably wanting to not have to pay anymore. Next, my W is convinced that having just me on her health ins. is costing her $123 a WEEK! that's almost $600 a month. The most I have ever been quoted for just myself is under $300 a MONTH. She isn't able to think rationally. She gets an idea in her head and will not even listen to what the truth is. She says she is spending so much money on clothes and I didn't buy any for D15. Well, I have bought her clothes that she leaves here and shoes, not as much but let me tell you, she isn't wanting for something to wear. Of course there's always the fact that she thinks this will be the magic cure for all her misery, I'm sure that she is in a hurry for that all to stop and that will be the moment the D is final!
I can't take it anymore. Every part of my life is suffering because of her. From the start she and I would talk about what we were going to do. Hard conversations that took a long time and were painful. A week later she would tell me she had "changed her mind" and that she was going to do the opposite of what we agreed to. When I asked how it was that she just changed her mind she said and I quote "I just did. I can't help that I changed my mind". Can't help that she changed her mind? Really? How can someone actually say something like this and not know how unbelievable that statement is? Is she really THAT far gone? The only answer to that is ...yes, she has to be.
I'm thinking about what I'm going to do. I think I will give her what I'm willing to accept and if that isn't going to work for her, than I will say that we need to go to court. Of course, that will mean I will need a new lawyer so that will take some time. When I do get a new lawyer he will need to get up to speed on my case so that will mean more delays. I will tell him that I'm in no hurry and to delay in every way possible. Her wish for a fast end will be gone. Of course I'm not going to be unreasonable. At this point I conceded many things including where D15 will go to school, plus allowing her to take most of the antiques from the home, etc. all because she had been telling me she had no desire to have the house and I could keep it. I even allowed her to refinance one of our cars into just her name (against my lawyer) because I thought she was going to allow me the house. I brought in $47,000 in assets that were cashed in and used for joint expenses to the M. She brought in over $32,000 in debt and zero assets. That's just under $80,000 difference that I have a right to recoup. Even if we only use half of the assets, that's still over $50K. I think it is only fair that she get less of the proceeds of the sale of the house. The house will get around $60,000 if sold as is right now. That means I get $50,000, she gets $10,000. If it sells for $70K, she gets $20K, I get $50K, etc. I really think that's MORE than fair. I think I should get half the assets and ALL the debts. But I really think this is fair. In fact I won't be at all happy about it as she is still getting way more than she deserves.
I would appreciate any thoughts you all have on this. Am I asking too much? Too little? Am I thinking this all the wrong way (I worry because I know I'm really angry and unhappy and may not be seeing things right). Please, let me know your thoughts everyone.
Matt, if you are truely sure that your lawyer will roll over just to get off the case then drag it out as far as you can just so you can get rid of him since he is not interested in your best interest at this point. Since he is asking for you to provide dates on which you will be available, I would suggest you give him dates for some time next year after you have completed your tests and are comfortably settled into your new job. Don't argue with him. If he gets angry, say excuse me, I did not realize that I work for you, I thought you worked for me. Once he has successfully dumped you, ask to get your file from him, go to the court, explain that you do not have a lawyer anymore. That you will need time to look for and interview attorneys. Ask how you can file a continuance to allow you this time. Then take your time looking for attorneys. You might consider interviewing 20 or 30 law firms. Maybe 1 or 2 a week as you have time available while. Eventually you will need to settle on a firm and have a retainer. Since you don't have any agreements in place yet, you will be asking them to look everything over and recommend what agreements to get in place immediately. Also tell them you need to get back on your feet and therefor you are not looking to have this finished immediately. It will cost you to drag it out, but it will also cost her.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
Matt I am not a lawyer, nor did I go through this process, I am hoping someone with some experience in this can help you. With the exception of find a new lawyer, who is willing to have a payment plan with you.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
OK, here goes, I'm ready to just give up at this point. I realize now that I wasted my entire life taking care of and loving someone that was never capable of returning that care and love. I know now she wasn't even able to love her own daughters, not really. In the end, her own terrible childhood, her inability to trust others, her constant fear, her feelings of not being good enough made it impossible for her to have anything close to a "normal" life. For a time she was able to deal. As long as things were calm, easy and she wasn't asked for much. While the girls were little she had them around. They saw her as mommy, she didn't worry how they felt about her. To them she could do no wrong. No need for her to worry that they would see the "real" her. She totally lost touch with other people. When I would ask about someone she seemed to have made friends with she would tell me that she no longer was friends with them anymore...always because of some "slight" they had made towards her. Every time we started to make friends with other parents something would happen to where she got "insulted" over some off hand remark that to anyone else would have been forgotten in a second. We would go to parties and she would seem to have fun but on the way home she would go on and on about how this person or that person said or acted in a way that she didn't like. She would complain about me being either too talkative or not enough. Spent too much time with her or left her alone too often. No one was good enough for her.
When the girls got older and started to become "people" with there own opinions and ideas she found that they weren't always happy with mom. She was no longer their whole world. By the time they both started school she felt lost. She had no real friends, spent her days alone at home while I worked and she became "isolated" (her word). This was when she started to become depressed. No matter how I tried, she wouldn't want to do anything. The house became a mess. At the same time I was trying to make a living where we could afford the girls going to private school. I didn't know what to do. Then her grandfather, the only steady male figure in her life died. Her father who up until now hadn't made any effort to be a part of her life, asked her to come and stay with him and help plan a memorial service for him. She was to stay a month and I would join her and the kids there for the service. Well, when I got there my W had changed. She was rude, mean, uncaring towards the girls. I had no idea what had happened. After her father excluded me and the girls from a party he was having for my W and she didn't care, that was the last straw. The next day I told her I had had enough. I was going to take the kids and fly home (we were going to drive her GF's car, which he wanted her to have, home as a family). She begged me not to because she was worried what her father would think! I relented (which I now wish I hadn't). When we got home she said her father had said how sorry he was for all the bad things he had done to her over the years and wanted to "make-up" for it all and she had "forgiven" him. At the same time she also said she was so unhappy and didn't know why. That was when she was diagnosed with depression which she blamed on her isolation, the girls getting older and not needing her anymore, all kinds of things that weren't the true reasons. The next 4 years were her so depressed she couldn't function really. She stopped cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kids. At the same time her father was starting to try and get back in her life...only he didn't like that she was "only" a stay at home mother. Would tell her how she was wasting her life (which she was but not for the reasons he was saying!) told her to come away with him to Europe for a couple months (alone without me or the kids). When I told her that wasn't possible she freaked saying I just didn't want her to have a life of her own, ignoring the fact that we had 2 kids that needed parents, that I worked full time and needed her around. What got me most was her father really was insulting and treated her poorly when he was around. All the things she said other people were doing but really weren't he WAS doing and she just sat there and smiled saying I didn't understand his "sense of humor" ...believe me there was nothing funny about what he was saying. This was the beginning of the end of our M.
After years of depression W finally went to IC. There she was told that she needed to go back to work. It took months before she did. Well, that was when she became totally involved in only her work and her father. She lost all interest in doing anything as a family, worked late all the time, spent all her "free" time with her friends from work. The only time she took off work was when her father would visit and she would do things with him, alone, not even inviting the kids to come along. Then her father became sick with cancer. That was it. She was fully into MLC. All that mattered to her was work and her "friends" at work and her father. I was just in the way, trying to stop her from doing what she wanted. The rest is her history of MLC which you all know.
What all this tells me is I never had a chance. My W would have ended up right where we are now no matter what. Doesn't matter what is best for her kids, for me, for herself. Nothing I could have done would have changed the outcome. I couldn't have loved her more. When she was relaxed and it was just the two of us, she really was a fun, caring person. It is just that she has zero skills in R's. Friendships, M, even being a mother scares her. When the girls got old enough to have personalities of their own she couldn't cope with parenting even. She functions at work because she has to deal with the people there every day, she can't just cut them out of her life. She gets 'insulted" often by people she works with, gets angry and upset for a time but because she must deal with them every day it gives her time to get over it (although she NEVER forgets and remembers every little thing she was upset over).
I will never understand why I became the enemy to her. Why she would no longer care at all about me, even if she is trying to feel better. I know I could never do to her all that she has done and still is doing that hurts me. She says she wants me to be "happy" yet does things to hold me back. How she see's others as being mean or insulting when they aren't but eats up attention from her father who actually IS insulting and rather mean to her, has done so many awful things to her and the people she loves like her brother and mother. It makes no sense at all. I feel like I'm being punished for something I didn't do. I feel for my Daughters and how they must feel having a mother who acts like she does and doesn't take much interest in them. I wonder why I trusted her as much as I did looking back on the history. Why didn't I see this coming? Why didn't I leave her years ago? (The answer to that is because I loved her but why did I love her?).
I wrote this all out to remind myself what I'm in for. To remind myself not to allow my w to take me in this D. If not for my daughters I wouldn't care. I'd let her have whatever she wants and just move on. But I need to be able to take care of them. To do the things parents should do for their kids and I know W won't do those things. They need me if only so they don't end up like my W did.
Today I found out that my D19 is having some problems with living with her boyfriend. She left to live there when her mother left. She had just grad high school a month earlier. Her plans were for W and I to help her get a car so she could get a job (we live too far from any place and there is no transportation). Well, since her mother had decided to leave we couldn't afford to help her. The only way she could get a job and go to college (community college) was if she moved in with her BF. Her mother refuses to help her at all and I just can't yet. D19 is kind of trapped. She asked about my new job and how long until I start. She wants to move back in with me but knows I can't help her get to school and work. I have told her that as soon as I can I will help her get a car. She has been working and saving as best as she can but it's hard as she has to pay for food and all her expenses. She won't move in with her mother. I D19's own words "I can't trust her". My heart aches for her, feeling that way about her mother, having to grow up so fast. I don't want her to be affected for the rest of her life, to have the kind of problems my W had with her father but there is nothing I can do at all. It's out of my hands, all I can do is be the best father I can be for her and let her figure things out with her mom on her own. I don't discourage her to spend time with her mom, try not to say anything that could be seen as "bad". I answer her questions if she asks, let her vent when she is angry at her.
So, this is where I'm at. I don't see how any amount of DBing is going to help at all. It may help somewhat to keep my W from getting angry and lashing out. I really fear that she will be one of those that never come out of the MLC. Her father never came out of his (left his wife and family when W was 10 years old, ended up M to OW, the whole 9 yards) and I fear she will end up the same. If only she hadn't done this when she did. If she had done this years ago I would have been making enough to not need to fight so much, to help my D19, to afford a great lawyer. No, she waited until I needed her for the first time in 20 years. The timing of the MLCer at work. She even waited to leave until all the savings (including my cashed in retirement) were gone. Coincidence? I really don't know anymore. I wanted to think it wasn't on purpose. That she waited until the money was gone but who knows, really? All I can do from this point on is my best. She can out spend me on lawyers (and daddy is paying), she lies with ease and is believable because she actually believes her own lies and distortions. She has an advantage as a W in D proceedings, at least in my state. I just have to keep trying and keep trying to get my life in order and take care of my girls as best as I can. I don't see much happiness coming my way this holiday season, that's for sure!
You are still struggling with the concepts here. You have a reoccurring theme of fairness that runs throughout your posts. Cancer is not fair. A child dieing of a brain tumor is not fair. Mental illness is not fair. You have to let go of what you believe to be fair and accept that things are what they are. What you believe is fair others will view as not fair.
DBing is not restoring your marriage. Restoring your marriage may be a result of DBing. Dbing is a set of skills giving you the opportunity to really look at yourself and grow. It gives you the knowledge to understand what is going on and to move forward yourself. Its not a cure all. Only you can choose to learn and apply the skills to yourself and become a better person able to move on with your life.
Matt, you can choose to wallow in self pity. You can also choose to take this bowl of lemons and make lemonade. The decision is not in your wifes hands. The decision is in your hands and what you choose to do.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
LT, Every time I take a step forward, some new horror arrives at my doorstep. Every time I make progress, however slight, a new set back shows up. I live in fear of the smallest thing such as my car breaking down as it would be impossible for me to get it fixed. I need the funds to get help with my IRS problem but I don't have it and I'm out of time. I need to work towards making money at my work and I find out the person in charge of the co. funds hasn't been paying the rent so we have to vacate the offices. My cell phone stops working and my lawyer tries to drop me because he can't reach me so I need to spend the day in court. I find a job that looks promising but I need to pass courses. Courses that I need to pay for before getting reimbursed and that means money I don't have. I have had to beg and borrow and even if I succeed, I will start so far in debt it will take years to get out. The series of events that started when the co I worked for for 10 years closed would have been hard enough under normal circumstances. Add in my W and her MLC antics and it just is too damn much. I get that there is nothing "fair" in the world, that sh!t happens. But at the same time, it's when things like this happen that you are supposed to be able to count on family. Instead, my W decides to destroy that family, throw it away like it was nothing. Oh, it was great when she needed us. She counted on me and that family when it suited her. Talked about how important it was for family to always be there for each other. As soon as it wasn't to her advantage anymore, as soon as it was her turn to step up, family became meaningless.
People lose jobs unexpectedly every day, it happens. It's stressful and you do the work and you move on. People start businesses all the time that they work hard on and they don't make it. You take your losses, learn your lessons and again, move on. People have IRS problems often. They do the work, take the time needed to get all the info together that is needed and you mount a defense. People learn new things all the time to help better their careers. They take the time when they can, learn what they need, take the exams, move on. M's end all the time. You have problems, try to work them out, if it works, great, if not, you end things.
Any of theses things alone are stressful events. Hard but you work through them and move forward. All of them together while at the same time dealing with an irrational person who is trying their best it seems to make your life harder is he!!. Add the fact that there is no money but you have to feed and take care of your child, get her to a school 30 miles away and home half the time. Trying to do all these things all at the same time while dealing with a S that actually thinks her life is hard and is actually trying to undermine you and it becomes like climbing a mountain with no gear...every time you take a step up, you slide 2 steps down.
If I was only dealing with my D it wouldn't be fun but it would be doable. But when you add all the other things and it gets like you are weighed down and there isn't enough air. Cancer is a mindless disease. You didn't spend 25 years building a R with it and it unexpectedly turns on you. It doesn't take your kids away from the only life they have ever known. It doesn't come into your home and take things that you have worked all your life for like a thief while justifying it's actions by spewing hatefulness and rewriting history.
Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying. I have the choice to keep trying, keep moving forward or give up. I get that. You are right about the wallowing as well. It just seems so useless sometimes. Why keep going when it seems that the universe it's self is against you. Why keep trying when it's only a matter of time before the next thing comes calling. The fact that I'm facing these things alone also doesn't help. While there may be no definition of "fair" in the world, there is justice. I firmly believe in the concept of justice. It just doesn't seem like it really exists in my world any longer. So, what is left? What do I have to look forward to even if I make it through this and do well at the job? Years of crushing debt. Years of dealing with my stbxw because of my D15 tying us. Years of not being able to do what I want with my D without her say so. Running her to and from a school far away. Who gets her on what holiday. Basically starting over from scratch but this time thousands of $'s in the hole!
This is what I have to look forward to? Is it really worth it? I guess in the end it has to be better than just giving up. But man, at times the idea of just stopping and saying "Enough!" is so appealing! Some nights, all alone in the quiet it's easy to start thinking "Well, I've had enough of this", if you know what I mean. The only thing I have left at times is the knowledge that my D's need me. That is what I'm feeling the last few days. Not fun, not useful but it is how I'm feeling. I suppose I could be worse off. I could be homeless and have no way at all to get out of this he!! I find myself in. I can keep telling myself that.
You are right about the lemonade, LT. It just seems like there may be so much in the end I may just drown in it! Thank you for the 2x4. I will keep going still I just have to dig deeper and deeper all the time to find that reserve of hope and energy.
Hi Matt. I know (and a lot of us do) what you are going through. I can read your thread and feel like I wrote it. I had a lot of the same feelings and even contemplated suicide for a very long time. You WILL get through this. I promise. I wanted to share something that I wrote recently about my XW's MLC and my own experience with depression:
"Before bomb drop, I can say that I never thought of it. Ever. I had a great life: awesome wife and kids, wonderful career, plenty of money, you name it.
When my brother did it at the end of 2008, I began to think about it a lot, but not in the sense that many would probably think. It was more of a curious thing. I wondered what could have possibly been going through his head in the last weeks/days/hours/minutes before he did it. How could he possibly be so low that he figured that ending it was the best way out? I was very angry at him for a long time. I thought it was one of the most selfish acts that a person could commit. I didn't understand why. How could he do that....especially to his three kids and his mom? I just didn't get it. I had a radio buddy at the time that confided in me that he was at a point once when he considered it. He told me to quit trying to figure it out. (Sound familiar?) He said that unless I've ever been to that point, I'd never understand. He said that NOBODY would ever know what it is like to be that low unless they've been there themselves. Over time, I began to slowly let it go.
Then, bomb drop at the end of 2010.
Once XW left, I was a mess. I started to think about my brother again and started thinking about suicide A LOT. I mean....A LOT. I would get up in the morning, pour a rum and Coke, and jump in the shower. I would sit in there in the dark until the water got cold. When I got out, I would sit in my bedroom until I thought the water was hot again and I would repeat the process. I did this 5, 6 even 7 times a day. That is when I would think about it. How? When?
I worked evenings so I would sober up a little bit, go to work and do my show. I tried to sound like the fun, party guy that I was supposed to be, but I knew I wasn't pulling my weight. I was a really big mess and looking back, I'm surprised that I didn't lose my radio job sooner. When I got home around midnight, the drinking and showers would start again until I passed out. When I got up in the morning, I did it all over again. That was my ritual.
When my brother did it, he hung himself in the shower. I decided that if I did it, I was going to do the same. I even knew which belt I was going to tie around the showerhead. It was almost an obsession. I just couldn't imagine my life without XW. Not sure if I ever really mentioned it here, but ending it all consumed me. My mom was scared to death that I would do it. She never really came out and said it, but I could tell. I knew. She MADE me go to her doctor. He wanted to hospitalize me right then and there because my blood pressure was so high, but I refused. He put me on medication....meds for blood pressure and meds for depression. It helped take the edge off.
One day out of the blue I started to remember how my brother's suicide affected his kids. (It really messed the older one up.) Then I remembered how it just about killed my mom. Really. Then I told myself that I didn't want to put my kids through that and I didn't want my mom to have two kids kill themselves. I think a second one would have killed her. Then I started to realize that nobody (not even XW) was worth it. But....
It took a long time...a very long time...probably longer than it should have. It slowly got to where I was taking fewer showers and thinking less about it. Then it eventually got where I began to turn the light on again while showering. (Don't really know why I had to sit in the dark, but it is what I did.) It didn't happen overnight and there were times even probably as recent as a year ago that I still thought about it from time to time. The difference was that the desire or "passion" to do it slowly faded. It was a long road though. And now, I think I do "understand" how a person can be that low. Even now, I still have some bad days and some really bad days and sometimes I am still really, really sad when I think about losing my furbabies, but I survive the day and hope for a better tomorrow. There are still times when I am sad that I wonder if the sadness will ever really go away for good. I still sometimes feel like there is an elephant sitting on my chest. This time of year is the worst, but.....I'm still here. Am I out of the woods? No, but I can see the meadow through the trees."
You'll make it Matt. You WILL make it.
Tad
Currently: M 56 XW 57 Sons 38,33,31,29
The Sitch: Married 26 years EA w/ OM 9/10 Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary) Sep 12/10 She wants D 1/11 W files 5/11 D final 10/11 XW marries OM 6/13
We can all list things. I can list attempted suicide twice, double lung transplant, loss of job, etc all since April this year. I have to be strong for my daughters. I could choose to just give up under the weight I am dealing with. I have chosen to look at things in a glass half full way rather than a glass half empty. I have chosen to not let anything she does affect me. I am happy each day that I can stand upright. I hope you will find it within yourself to let some of the stuff she does go.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
I guess the bottom line with everything that you have going on would be...
What lesson are you supposed to be learning from all of this ??
What can you turn into something positive, from the ashes of this mess ??
I have been through very similar circumstances, and have often thought "what the F else can go wrong?"
I spent a LOT of time waiting for the other shoe to drop on me, and I can tell you, it isn't any kind of way to live...
And then I realized, that I had spent almost my entire life, trying to control every little thing around me, and the Universe was teaching me, to only concern myself with the things that I COULD control.
And that, was how I responded to adversity.
How I responded, became way more important, than what I felt was happening to me. And I started thinking that, instead of it happening TO me, it was happening FOR me, to guide me towards what the Universe wanted to teach me....
