H's MLC#6- Now its about ME!

[2BHappy]

Previous post
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2505119&page=11

Just stopping in for a update.

I have been dim (as much as I can be while living with my MLC). This has allowed me to settled my thoughts and emotions in relation to my M.

I've gotten back to my calmness my peace my center! I know that mentally, & emotinally, I will be GREAT with whatever the outcome of my M. I truly deep down want my H and myself to be at peace and happy with life, and if that means together great and if separate that is great also.

I feel so much better when NOT thinking about my M or H, not worrying about the what if's.

This gift of time has allowed me to prepare myself, to work on myself work I will continue to do, time I'm grateful for.

YES I think it's hard with my MLC still at home, but this allowed me a slower detachment process, to sort of "get over it" but still have some type of R.

I think my H and I are getting back to being real friends.

I know that my H is being allowed to have his cake and eat it to by staying in the house but not truly commited to M. But I dont let that bother me as much, he is not the only one benefitting from this "set up".

For some crazy reason, I'm HAPPIER now then I have been in a very very long time, happier with ME, not my stitch but with myself.

I have no plans to get back on the roller coaster, I'm taking a much needed break!!

I have let my H know that soon I will be making a decision about this M, I just wanted to give him a heads up, that soon I may be leaving....

I told him I don't want him to rush to make his choice/decision, but that does not mean I will not make my choice to decide what I want/need, and it may be to be totally free of this M, so I can truly move on.

Gift of time=priceless.

[ForeverYoung]

Hi 2B, it’s great to hear you are in such a peaceful place with H and you sitch. It is so very important for us to get there. Great job, I’m impressed!

I feel so much better when NOT thinking about my M or H, not worrying about the what if's.

Hyper focus on the M can burn us out. Sometimes we need to just let go of it all and enjoy the rest of our life.

As long as the couple can still get along fine, an in house separation can be better for so many reasons. Finances, friendship and someone to share the chores with are a few. I believe it also allows more possibilities for R too. I know I really prefer it in our sitch. Obviously W does too.

I have let my H know that soon I will be making a decision about this M, I just wanted to give him a heads up, that soon I may be leaving....

I told him I don't want him to rush to make his choice/decision, but that does not mean I will not make my choice to decide what I want/need, and it may be to be totally free of this M, so I can truly move on.”

What was H’s response to this?

[2BHappy]

H's response was like shocked, then he admitted he had NOT been thinking about US at all that he has avoided thinking about US and was just focused on our son, his work, our bills. And that now I have given him something to think about. This was 2-3 weeks after I had brought it up again. He also acted shocked that I reminded him its been over a year...

OMGoodness I was like really really,,,all this time and this was not the first time I ask about US and for him to act surprised and to tell me he had been avoiding thinking about our M, our R andything about US. Just WOW!!!

So I don't know if this is a stall tactic or if he really has not been even thinking about US at all? Just son and work, work and son, and earning money , working OT like crazy!!!

He acted surprised that I had an issue with how things are between us!!! He reminded me that I was a distant from him and our R for YEARS and now I wanted to give him a time limit.

[daring]

Nice 2B! My DB coach said once you TRULY get to a point where you know you will be ok regardless- your whole vibe changes, and they notice.
I hated feeling like I was playing a game, but at the same time we aren't- we are being true to ourselves and taking care of us.
If they catch up- great! It's up to us to decide when we are done.

Rooting for you- that your M works out but even more that your PMA continues to soar!

[woundedfool]

I know that mentally, & emotinally, I will be GREAT with whatever the outcome of my M.

Liberating... isn't it?

[2BHappy]

wounded wounded oh l how wonderful it feels... yes it is great and life changing.

I have crossed the bridge...I pray my H will come over with me...but soon I will continue on...

I thank GOD and you all for all the support. I'm in such a good place.

Wow...

[2BHappy]

Can someone tell me what PMA means and or direct me to the post that has the Abbreviations?

AND...there is a man who is also having problems with his wife, we are friends and I had stopped talking to him, since I felt like IF we both were single people we might would date.

I told him we have to be VERY careful since we are both in vunverable situations, and I made it clear that I would NEVER cheat! But I felt like this could be EA and I'm nervous..so I aovided him for months...and then he got a new job away from our work where we met, so I felt safer talking to him,,,but now he wants to talk more and more and wants to meet for lunch...

How do I make sure I'm not involved in a EA, I can be friends with a male, but I want to make sure he is not getting something other then friends from our friendship and I want to NOT be an outlet from the issues he is having with his wife.

I've been VERY direct with him, but I feel this underlying something from him,,,,so I'm thinking I may need to tell him we cannot be friends:(

I dont want my friendship to him to interfer with his marriage in ANY WAY or fashion at all!!!!

I know the pain of being cheated on.

AND if for some reason we remain friends, do I need to tell my H that I'm going out for lunch or dinner with a male friend? I dont want H to think I'm up to something or hiding anything!

I did not tell him when this friend worked with me, cause when we went to lunch it was with other co-workers.

Now he wants to go to lunch just us, and he started back calling me weekly.

[job]

PMA stands for Positive Mental Attitude. I may be wrong on this, but I don't think we have a post any more that addresses the abbreviations.

Happy, you are treading near deep waters w/your friend. You do not want to be a part of his drama. I know how it feels to want to talk to someone, but he needs to be speaking to a counselor or someone else about his issues w/his wife. If you want to remain friends w/him, you will need to set some boundaries and advise him that you will not have conversations about his issues w/his wife, i.e., that they are issues the two of them should be working out and if he needs to speak to someone about them, a therapist, priest, minister, etc., would be a step in the right direction.

By sitting and discussing issues about spouses is how some of the EA's get started, especially if the conversations continue to go on and on over a lengthy period of time. You are right about one thing... you both are in vulnerable positions right now and even though you made it clear you wouldn't cheat, an EA is just as bad as a PA because they are both considered cheating. You do not need a third party in the mix right now, nor does he for that matter.

If your gut is telling you something isn't right, then drop him. I would certainly distance myself from him and if he continues to call you, then you will need to ask him to stop it It's difficult to turn a friend away, but if you opt to have lunch, I would suggest that you invite a co-worker to go along since he use to work in your area. I don't think I would do the dinner invite because that looks more like a date to me than lunch and he may think that you are on board w/going out w/him and he'll continue to call and ask you out. You don't know what he's thinking and you don't want to encourage him along, if you are trying to save your own marriage right now.

As for your h, be honest w/him and advise him about lunch dates. You don't want him to find out from someone else, do you? Secrets are what gets us in trouble and then we have to do double duty to make things right when they are finally put out in the open.

Again, if your gut is telling you something isn't right, then it's most likely on target. Happy, play it safe and if you opt to have lunch w/him, invite a co-worker along. The comment "just us" sends red flags up for me.

[woundedfool]

I may be wrong on this, but I don't think we have a post any more that addresses the abbreviations.

Yep, your wrong

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2183063#Post2183063

Happy, you are treading near deep waters w/your friend. You do not want to be a part of his drama. I know how it feels to want to talk to someone, but he needs to be speaking to a counselor or someone else about his issues w/his wife. If you want to remain friends w/him, you will need to set some boundaries and advise him that you will not have conversations about his issues w/his wife, i.e., that they are issues the two of them should be working out and if he needs to speak to someone about them, a therapist, priest, minister, etc., would be a step in the right direction.

By sitting and discussing issues about spouses is how some of the EA's get started, especially if the conversations continue to go on and on over a lengthy period of time. You are right about one thing... you both are in vulnerable positions right now and even though you made it clear you wouldn't cheat, an EA is just as bad as a PA because they are both considered cheating. You do not need a third party in the mix right now, nor does he for that matter.

If your gut is telling you something isn't right, then drop him. I would certainly distance myself from him and if he continues to call you, then you will need to ask him to stop it It's difficult to turn a friend away, but if you opt to have lunch, I would suggest that you invite a co-worker to go along since he use to work in your area. I don't think I would do the dinner invite because that looks more like a date to me than lunch and he may think that you are on board w/going out w/him and he'll continue to call and ask you out. You don't know what he's thinking and you don't want to encourage him along, if you are trying to save your own marriage right now.

As for your h, be honest w/him and advise him about lunch dates. You don't want him to find out from someone else, do you? Secrets are what gets us in trouble and then we have to do double duty to make things right when they are finally put out in the open.

Again, if your gut is telling you something isn't right, then it's most likely on target. Happy, play it safe and if you opt to have lunch w/him, invite a co-worker along. The comment "just us" sends red flags up for me.

I 100% agree and echo job's post.

If you need a new friend right now... get a dog.

[job]

Thanks woundedfool. I knew we had a posting on the abbreviations a very long time ago. I'm going to ask Cadet to add this url to his welcome thread. It would help a lot of folks who come here.

[2BHappy]

Job & Wounded

Thanks, this guy is a good friend but I'm NOT sure of his intentions. I have told him directly that we can ONLY be friends and that I'm not a cheater and would NOT want to be with a cheater (did not tell him I already got one of them). Told him that he should not talk to me about his issues with his wife.

I told him that there was no reason other co-workers should be excluded from lunch with us.

I dont want to bring this subject up with my H, not sure what he would try to make out of it and we dont need any more issues/drama and I feel like this would be something my H would use against me...not worth it.

So I told male friend, lunch with others only, no talking about his issues with his wife. We can talk about our favorite TV show -Scandal and the weather etc.

I felt this was dangerous and I need to avoid interacting with males who MAY be interested in being more then friends.

Even though my male friend insisted he is not interested in anything other then friendship.

[woundedfool]

So I told male friend, lunch with others only, no talking about his issues with his wife. We can talk about our favorite TV show -Scandal and the weather etc.

I felt this was dangerous and I need to avoid interacting with males who MAY be interested in being more then friends.

Even though my male friend insisted he is not interested in anything other then friendship.

I think you handled this appropriately. You have set clear boundaries, any overstepping (and that includes you) should be handled swiftly and with no ambiguity.

Only tip I would add, is just to to let this be a distraction to how you work on M.

[job]

I second what woundedfool has posted. You handled it w/grace and dignity and I hope he will accept what you have said. I think it's very wise to include others in any lunch dates that you have because it is not only safer for you, but it will not encourage any ideas, real or not, if he has them simmering in his head.

Keep up the good work. I think you are doing great and I'm glad you came to the board to get some advice on the matter of your friend.

[woundedfool]

Only tip I would add, is just to to let this be a distraction to how you work on M.

I think I got screwed by auto correct....

My tip to add is DO NOT let this be a distraction to how you work on M.

[2BHappy]

Thanks..male friend acted a lil confused but told me OK if that how I feel...

Next issue...

My H is almost a clothes horder never wants to get rid of any clothes unless forced. He had sooo many clothes in a closet that the railings broke, he then moved those clothes to our laundry room a couple years back and never fixed the closet.

So I off/on complain about the clothes in laundry room, but have not said anything about them in over a year.

Last week I noticed some of the clothes were gone, I ask H if he planned to donate the clothes and he said no that he put them up?

There is no place in the house in our closets that I see these clothes, I did not YET check storage crates.

It also seems like he has taken some other clothes out of another closets but Im not 100% sure (HE HAS ALOT OF CLOTHES)


So on his phone call to me today before he goes to work (which I ginored his call 3xs, I was at lunch with team and did not want to take the call) When I finally answered he was like did you see I had called you....I said nothing,,,then he ask again and I said I would have to check,,,

He paused then got on with why he was calling anywway,,wanted to know my plans for a football game 2weeks away,,wanted to invite sSS33, SS26 and kids over to watch game with S14 and I.

So back to the issue:...

I asked H on the call, where are those clothes (from laudry room) and he ask me why do I keep asking about where the clothes are? I quickly said nevermind, he laughed a little and I did not reply,,,this ended the phone call. I did not ask about clothes from closets, since Im not sure if any have been removed.

YES...I'm wondering if he is moving clothes to someplace else in preparation for leaving...but these are clothes that he has not bbeen wearing anyway...most of the laudry room clothes were more sspring summer shirts.

No there are has been no indication otherwise that he is planning to leave.

SOOOOO...why am I focused on these clothes, I've been wanting them to be removed from laudry room for the longest,,,and there are still quite a few still hanging in laudry room, so only 50% were removed.

I'm trying to STOP myself from checking the storage crates at home, but I really want to know where he put or move those clothes too.

[job]

He may have them packed away since spring/summer is over with. I wouldn't be too worried about the clothes. The more you ask, the more determined he'll be not to tell you. The less you say about them, the better, because he will then slip up and tell you. They can't keep secrets for very long w/o telling on themselves in some way.

I would be curious too, but you can' show him just how curious you are.

Sit quietly, the answers will come when you least expect them to.

[2BHappy]

Job

Sometimes I feel like my answer is to end my M, to ask H to leave, sometimes I have a nagging feelings that I'm ignoring that "answer".

I feel like if I dont end it, that H will continue to linger in limbo and not make any real decisions about our M. H does not want the end of our M to be on him, I feel like sometimes he is just trying to wait me out, to let me get to the end of the rope and leave. I feel like he wants me to file for D so he can say "I did not leave, I was "trying", she ended it" he wants none of the responsibility of our M ending.

[job]

I do understand what you are saying. My xh was like that the second time he left. He kept piddling around, threatening to leave and doing anything and everything to annoy me so that I would put him out. Finally 19 days before Christmas, he threatened to leave for the final time on a Sunday. Monday evening, I say him down and told him that if he wanted to leave then go now and not wait until after Christmas. He cried like a baby; telling me he didn't know what to do and he was confused, etc. After that conversation, I never said another word and the following week he left while I was at work. He did state one evening, over dinner, he couldn't understand why I wasn't upset or thought things were normal and proceeded to tell him that I wasn't the one that wanted to leave. It didn't take long for him to pack a few things and disappear. He was actually bumming couches to sleep on and then found out that it wasn't a good idea to run away from home around the holidays. LOL!

Any way, I didn't file, but I did request a draft separation be prepared per his instructions and I had addressed everything he wanted...that dragged on 1 1/2 years and when I finally stopped the entire process, that's when he filed and I was notified just before the holidays. By that time, I wanted the divorce and get rid of him out of my life. He was toxic and pure evil. The bridges were burned and there was no going back.

So, yes, I do understand how you feel. My question to you is this....are you ready to boot him out? He may be nice right now, but he very well may turn ugly because you are forcing him to make some decisions that he really doesn't want to make.

If you have any questions about my situation, I'll be happy to answer them for you.

[woundedfool]

So, these clothes that seem to be bothering the heck out of you (or at least mildly irritating) finally begin to get resolved (or at least started).

And your "knee jerk" is: where are they? are they in storage? are you moving out?

Just a thought: But why don't you try:

"Hey H, I see you started working on your clothes. Thank you, I really appreciate you taking care of them".

[job]

woundedfool,

Now that's a 180 and it will knock him back a few steps!

[2BHappy]

I did when I first noticed ...I said oh I see you removed some of the clothes great thanks did you need me to take them to goodwill

H said no

After that I keep wondering where the clothes went?

About leaving...
H has not brought it up on his own ever...it has always been in response to my questions or emotions or blowups...
Well once after BD he let me know that he was thinking about leaving... and he acted on that by getting a PO Box.

Each time after has been mostly worded like "if you want me to leave" " it seems like you would be better off if I left' " if you will be happier I will leave"
"If it harder for me to be here I can leave" "do you want me to leave" "

H has never mentioned D to me I've brought it up but not H.

Anger , H has not shown hardly any anger, we have both cried I have shown a lot of anger. When I force H responds with sadness and confusion then " I don't know what I want "I don't know what to do" " I guess I need to figure it out...think about it" " do you want me to leave"

Its like he wants to avoid/ignore US. And he sometimes acts surprise when I bring this all up?

[job]

I think you've married my xh's twin! Never heard a word about leaving until something would create emotional highs. He really doesn't know what he wants.

Hang in there! They will surely test your patience.

[2BHappy]

Job,

How did your M finally end? Since your XH avoided like my H does?

I just feel like as long I don't rock the boat my H will continue living like this for a very very long time.

If you dont mind me asking?

Do you have link to your threads?

[job]

How did my marriage end? When he saw that I wasn't going to continue to play the power game w/him, after 2 years, he soon got off the pot and filed. He divorced me. I had made up my mind after he left the second time that it was over and I wasn't going to take him back even if he dropped golden eggs every day. The damage was too great and I had had enough. I cut my losses very, very early on. It was a huge relief to finally know that I didn't have to look over my shoulder every day and wonder when the next missive would come my way from the lawyer's office or deal w/his nasty emails and phone calls. Do I regret my decision, not one bit.

You have to remember, I came to the board in January of 2000. My postings were most likely scrubbed many years ago.

[2BHappy]

Thanks for sharing. I hope it was OK to ask.

My H...he is very laid back...he could live like this for years.

[job]

It was more than okay to ask. My xh was very laid back too until the crisis hit.

[2BHappy]

Just wanted to drop in and tell everyone HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!

You know what kinda puzzles me, IF someone would look into my home they might not think anything was wrong with my M? Especially if they looked in today...my H went out of his way to play a board game with s14 and I. Made sure we had everything family needed for thanksgiving dinner, made sure Stepsons were eating dinner with me and S14 and my family on my mom's side.

Then went out of way to spend alone time with ME before he went to work....

My H has not been a angry MLC/WAH THANK GOD, but today he was extra!

It could be the holidays but H has never been into the holidays, not sure why today felt sooooo different, but I know this could just be an UP day on H roller coaster and since I no longer ride his roller coaster, I'm just taking it as a good day!!!

Happy Thanksgiving, I will be thankful for what I have, because GOD has provided all I need and many of my wants.

[2BHappy]

H was extra nice today

[Georgiabelle]

2 B,

Glad you've had a great day. Hope you have a nice holiday:-)

[2BHappy]

Thank You Geoegiabelle,

I enjoyed the hoildays even though I ended up SICK with and my blood pressure was a lil high which it has never been!! EVER Dr said it could be becuase I was sick...I will have it checked again once Im all better.

This is another reason to make this about being a better me!! I have to lose this extra weight and let this stress GO! I will not allow this messed up situation make me unhealthy and affect my health, I will STOP the stress eating, will do my best to limit the stress I sometimes feels due to my H and sometimes my s14 and my mom. I will smile more, laugh often and BE HAPPY

I will find/create more GAL's. I will be more active!!!

I will be more positive in my interactions with my family and friends.

[2BHappy]

Had a lil R talk with H today, while laying in bed I just casually told him this would probably be our last year together. I told H we have grown far apart as H and W. Told him I wanted a R a better M, but we both have to want the same thing.

NO drama just stated my fact. Went to take a shower to get ready for my day and ..basicially ended up back in bed with H, H initated..and this time H did not run away after, stayed and even iniated round 2. I told him it was very nice, I wanted him to know that, since he did not run away after wards...but I also wanted to tell him this is NOT going to fix anything for me, but I did not say that,,,cause I don't know if it's fixing something for him...

AND I noticed I had no feelings that sex was going to fix our M, (I think when our sex life started back up I hoped it was H way of coming back) did not even read into H staying in bed holding my hand afterwards....even though this was something I had been missing and wanting,,,,

Even as I post this I still have an oh well whatever type of attitude,,I feel so very close to being just INDIFFERENT, my M is not affecting my day, H reactions or non actions dont affect my day. I'm moving farther and farther away...

[woundedfool]

Sorry, have been away for a while so I have not chimed in:

You do keep having these R talks, has there ever been a time when you have directly asked if he would like to join you in your talks with your minister/priest/etc?

[2BHappy]

No.........I have not invited him nor mentioned counseling since early this year or end of last year.

I feel like if he is not ready to even talk about R then why bring up counseling... but I will think about that...

I want to ....well I'm ready for ...I think I'm more done...did not reread DR or DB as planned... my head was not into it...

I don't know where I am in regards to my M. I want to keep my focus on me and my son. I wish my H would make a decision....

I don't care what stage my H is in. I don't know what stage of LBS I'm in.

[2BHappy]

Texting with H

H: What do you want for Christmas
Me: US...YOU
H: You know what I'm talking about
Me: Yeah..that is all you can give me. If not them I'm cool
H: Just tell me something and dont make it difficult
Me: Really don't worry about it. I dont need anything..THANK GOD

No reply back from H..crickets

So,,I guess that means I will not be getting US for Christmas.

He made a BIG DEAL out of taking s14 and I to get christmas tree this week, but H does not really enjoy Christmas said it is now too commerical and all about gifts. I think it also brings back sad memories of his childhood and he HATES spending money. But each year since we have been together he buys a real christmas tree. He always buys and receives gifts, but he grumbles the whole time about most of the hoopla.

I almost ask for him to make a decision about our M as my gift but I guess that would not be happening either.

I did already tell him that he knows I enjoy the Holiday's and that this year he would NOT complain the whole time about money and spending. I really dont spend much,,and I ask him to tell me the budget he wants to spend on Sons and grandkids,,we always go in 1/2 and if I want to buy more I will without expecting him to go over the budet he wants to use. But still he wants me to always spend less then I want, and I usually stay within a very close range..its not about the gifts to me its about the love and spending time with family. Really we dont spend much at Christmas.

I dont need a "gift" from him, I need so much more:(

[2BHappy]

Such a difference from last Christmas and this year in the way I feel/think/respond to my stitch. I'm soo very thankful for all the support I have gotten here, being allowed to vent, not being judged (I dont think) getting advice and support. When I first started posting here in April things were very rough for me.

Last Christmas I put on a happy face, but was hurting inside and did not even know about OW at that time, then bam found out about OW (which H swore it was never like I thought) and the ground fell out from under me.

I started to work on me, focus on me, DB (as much as I could), GAL.

I still have much work to do on ME, but just thought back to this time last year and oh my GOD is good, I feel like I have come so very far. I'm stronger....

THANKS for all your support.

[Georgiabelle]

Good for you 2B:-)

[job]

I'm very happy for you. Yes, you've come a long way from last year. It's been a struggle for you, but you've made it and there is light at the end of the tunnel. I'm very proud of you.

[2BHappy]

Thanks GB & Job

Now today I'm struggling with the fact that my H is still relying on me to do all the family stuff, like contacting the older kids to see what Grandkids need/want for christmas.

Being available to watch grandkids when older Stepkids need me to.

Now I don't mind it really, just hate that H acts like it my job to do it. I mean really, you don't want to be married to me, wear the ring I gave you, honor our marriage vows,,but when you need me to be your wife its all good for you.

Pick up your meds,
Give you some meds, (when you in pain and cannot get out of bed)
Iron clothes for work (when you too tired to iron yourself or running late)
Tell S14 you said this or that (instead of tell him yourself,,why cause you all ways at work)
Coordiate your life (cause you too busy working to do anything else)
Keep asking me what I want for Christmas (when its clear it will only be a material gift)
Asking me where you going, did you see I call you x amount of times, why did you not answer..

Ok I'm spinning, cause last year this time I would have loved for him to be asking me to do anything,,,now its on my last nerve, casue I feel like "if you don't want to be my H in every since of the word" then STOP using me/relying on my to be your "wife" when you need me to be.

[job]

If he acts like he doesn't want to be your husband, then stop doing things for him. Give him a taste of what it's like when the wife is not on the job. He needs to learn to appreciate you and he can't when you are still continuing to do things for him.

[mleigh4]

Hi 2BHappy,

I agree with Job. I am the same as you and we make it all way too easy for them. I also share your feelings. Try pulling back on doing some things for him, like picking up his meds or doing his ironing. He's a big boy, he can do it I figure, if we continue to treat them as if we are in a normal marriage and continue to not expect anything in return, why would they need to look inside themselves for any change? I say stop doing so much for him, just say you are busy or got sidetracked and forgot, doesn't need to be mean, and he can actually see what it may be like to take care of himself. It's hard because our H live at home. It's really hard to create that balance.

[woundedfool]

Keep asking me what I want for Christmas (when its clear it will only be a material gift)

Just saying' but.....

Ask for a gift certificate for a MC? (and qualify it with he doesn't need to go, that you would like to go... with or without him).

[2BHappy]

Job

Yes I will pull back again, I had stopped being available to "help" him with his world. I think he did notice a tiny bit, BUT he has not noticed enough what it would really be like if I was not in his world anymore.

[2BHappy]

Mleigh4

Yes some things are better and some are worse if the MLC is still at home.

I think the Holiday's (even though he says he does not care about holiday's) have him really trying to ACT like everything is normal. Yesterday I swear if someone was peeking in our window you would have swore we were the perfect happy married couple.

I caught he staring at me a few times yesterday it was different.

I also notice that the couple of last times I gave lil compliments he said something back (instead of acting like I said nothing)

He has noticed that I move thru my world without his input or advice (unless about our son).

But Yes I agree I need to pull back again and stop "being" his wife.

I'm almost ready to make a BIG decision,,,but I'm trying to make sure this is what I really really want, so I plan to take some quiet time to really listen to my heart, and wait on GOD.

[2BHappy]

Wounded

Great idea...it really is, if he ask again I might tell him that.

BUT right now, I'm not in a mind set to go to MC with him!

[mleigh4]

2BHappy - I understand how you feel oh so well. I also think, if someone looked into our home, they would have no idea any of this was going on. I also have seen a big change in my H since Thanksgiving and I too wonder if it is just an act for the holidays. I actually got caught up in it this last weekend, feeling like things were getting back to normal, until he did something that brought it all back to reality again. Nothing is normal and we are not "married", I am not his "wife". I can really relate to what you are saying.

Taking some quiet time, to listen to your heart, I believe is the best thing you can do right now. You will know, when it is time, you will know what to do. I admire that you are taking the time to let things play out and to listen before making any choice. We owe it to ourselves and to our M, to know we did everything we could so we have no regrets.

Hang in there 2BHappy. I think the stronger we are, the more focused we are on ourselves, helps everyone in the situation. Continue to be that person you want to be whether H is in the picture or not. Be that girl he would be crazy to let go! You seem like you are on the right track

[2BHappy]

THERE SHE BLOWS

So H went to his hometown yesterday afternoon, did not call to say he arrived or anything.

I leave a vm today telling him I'm upset that he did not think he needed to at least call and say he had arrived.

He calls, to talk to me about pizza had not heard vm, so I tell him what I said.

he tells me that I go everywhere and dont tell him and dont call him,,I said I have never gone out of town and not called him when I arrived. He told me that when s14 and I went on a cruise in 2012 I did not call him for 2 days,,,NOT ture but his reality...I told him that was not true.

I then let him know that my silence does not mean I'm ok with our current situation,,he said again that I go where ever I want and he does not know where I am,,,

I told him this is not just about him going out of town and not calling,,this is about everything, this is NOT working for me, I told him this is about this not being the type of R I want to be in,,,

H told me if that is how I feel,,and then keep saying he needed to get ready for work. I ask if we could talk when he gets home tonight he said he will not want to talk after working,,,

He told me his silence does not mean he is ok with things either,,

I told him he choose this situation we are in, and that this is too much for me ,,,

He keep saying he had to go to work,,,I told him to have a nice day and hung up.

I'm DONE, I'm belive I'm really DONE, I hope I'm done!!!

I believe I want to ask him to leave the house ASAP.

I don't want to do this anymore.

I told him I'm tired of the way things are with us. He had nothing to say..

I feel like Im exploding inside! I don't want this anymore!!!

I'm scared how this will affect our s14. I know H will tell everyone I put him out (if that is what I tell him) he will blame all this on me.

WOW...so much for taking quiet time and waiting on GOD!

[woundedfool]

THERE SHE BLOWS

So H went to his hometown yesterday afternoon, did not call to say he arrived or anything.

I leave a vm today telling him I'm upset that he did not think he needed to at least call and say he had arrived.

He calls, to talk to me about pizza had not heard vm, so I tell him what I said.

he tells me that I go everywhere and dont tell him and dont call him,,I said I have never gone out of town and not called him when I arrived. He told me that when s14 and I went on a cruise in 2012 I did not call him for 2 days,,,NOT ture but his reality...I told him that was not true.

I then let him know that my silence does not mean I'm ok with our current situation,,he said again that I go where ever I want and he does not know where I am,,,

I told him this is not just about him going out of town and not calling,,this is about everything, this is NOT working for me, I told him this is about this not being the type of R I want to be in,,,

H told me if that is how I feel,,and then keep saying he needed to get ready for work. I ask if we could talk when he gets home tonight he said he will not want to talk after working,,,

He told me his silence does not mean he is ok with things either,,

I told him he choose this situation we are in, and that this is too much for me ,,,

He keep saying he had to go to work,,,I told him to have a nice day and hung up.

I'm DONE, I'm belive I'm really DONE, I hope I'm done!!!

I believe I want to ask him to leave the house ASAP.

I don't want to do this anymore.

I told him I'm tired of the way things are with us. He had nothing to say..

I feel like Im exploding inside! I don't want this anymore!!!

I'm scared how this will affect our s14. I know H will tell everyone I put him out (if that is what I tell him) he will blame all this on me.

WOW...so much for taking quiet time and waiting on GOD!

hmmm.... I think you need to take a step back. Re-examine how you are approaching this. You have seemed to move away from some many of the DB'ing tenants:

Your attached
Your "checking up"
You've given ultimatums
Your not acting "as if"
You have R talks

If he is gone for a few days, I think it is an excellent time to stop what you are doing, and re-evaluate how your are approaching things.

Take a few days to re-read DB/DR, get your nails done, go to lunch with a friend. Essentially re-charge.

I am even guilty of this, when I suggested the MC gift certificate.

The holidays are tough, as you need to keep that happy face and PMA going.

You got this! You can do it!

[job]

I agree w/woundedfool, step back for a bit. I know you are upset w/him for not calling you, but you can off a bit like his mother or the warden. So, if he doesn't call you, let it go and continue on doing things for yourself. He's a big boy and he can take care of himself. If you give ultimatums, he will pick the one w/least work.

Yes, you are spouting off here and this is good, but I think I would cool my jets a bit and I'm going to ask you this...are you really, really ready to have him leave the home? Especially this close to Christmas? Do you want this type of memory hanging around you memory bank each and every year? I can tell you...the date will remind you of how upsetting your holiday would be for a very long time. My xh walked out the final time December 13th and it took me a very long time not to look at that date each year and remember what he did. Step back, cool your jets for a while.

[2BHappy]

I tried to step back.
Yes i do want him to leave our house...not right now during holidays but he needs to make some plans.

He expects me to be his wife but he is not my H.

Right now I dont care ..

Let him go figure it out or not.

[2BHappy]

I tried to step back.
Yes i do want him to leave our house...not right now during holidays but he needs to make some plans.

He expects me to be his wife but he is not my H.

Right now I dont care ..

Let him go figure it out or not.

[2BHappy]

Job & Wounded

Thanks for your advice, I'm really trying, but it's getting harder and I'm just not sure if I want to continue standing.

I really feel like my H is cake eating, and when I pull back he acts surprised and when I don't "act" like his wife he has something to say...

No he has comments for everything, for a while he was ignoring me totally now he is watching and commenting on everything.

And asking for my help, input, advice etc.

[job]

Happy,
He knows that you are distancing yourself from him, thus, the questions, asking for help, etc. When you pull back, he comes closer, i.e., like a moth to a candle.

I know it's difficult having MLCers living at home. They can try your patience 24/7, but if you can sit on your until after Christmas, maybe the stress of the holidays will have calmed down enough for you to think about your decision to ask him to leave. It's better to be absolutely sure that this is what you want and not just because he's annoyed you by not checking in or if you are going to do this to get him to snap out of his funk.

Happy, I will support you in whatever you opt to do...just be sure this is what you want.

[2BHappy]

Job
I will sit back and be quiet and do so serious thinking.

But right now I don't want this R or M the way it is. And I dont want to continue standing or even DB at this point.

I have been feeling this way for a couple of months.

I don't want H to say OK lets work on this because I ask him to leave.,,cause I dont want to force it. But I also dont want to continue waiting on H to decide that WE are worth it

[job]

I do understand where you are coming from. Make sure you have your finances in order, i.e., checking accounts, etc., i.e., in case you do show him the door. You want to make sure you have some money stashed away in case of an emergency. Become more familiar w/your bills coming in so that you are aware of what's being charged, etc.

Whatever you do, you are going to be fine. You are a strong, independent woman who has traveled some rough roads the last few months and has come out the other side ready to do whatever it takes to survive.

[Lifes Twists]

I agree with Job about making sure you have things in order. The biggest mistake people make is taking the plunge without having things in order and making sure they will be able to survive. The biggest question people fail to ask is, " can I afford to be divorced?" really analyze this first before you drop the rope. My wife made the decision and has now put us both in a position of struggling to make ends meet.

[2BHappy]

Yes I have been trying to save as much money as possible since last year.

All the bills come to my email or mail to house in my name (except a cable bill). The house is in my name purchased by me before we were married but we both moved in together.

We do not have any joint credit cards or joint banking accounts.

H carries s14 and I on medical insurance. I would ask him to continue to carry s14 if we get D.

I do have concern about paying all the bills on my own, things will be alot tighter, but what I will try to do is put the 1/2 my H gives me for bills for the next 3months in a savings and pay the bills alone from my pay and see how that really feels.

I know I can ask for child support but no idea how much that would be monthly...so I will pretend that it does not exist.

SO my new goal Jan-March is to pay all the bills from my pay, put the 1/2 H gives monthly into savings to get a real feel to the adjustment I will need to make.

I know we both will have financial adjustment to make, and I really think this is one of the reasons H has not left on his own.

He would need to find a place, pay bills food, toliertries would not magically appear in his new place, clothes do not wash themselves, houses do not clean themselves.

So we both would been living on less money of cours, cause bills would not be shared.

Im still very nervous about how this will affect S14.

How do I know if I can can I afford to be divorced?"

[job]

Keep in mind that while you are in the process of divorce, the divorce itself is costly and you'll need to keep that in mind as you budget.

If you do end up divorcing, things will be tight for a while, but you'll eventually get the hang of reducing some of your day-to-day expenses, i.e., coupon clipping, watching for deals at the stores, etc. It's best to begin tightening the belt now so that you can get some money stashed away.

[2BHappy]

Job
I may be a lil naive on this subject, but if we both agree to the D and child support. Why would it cost so much?

I don't think if I file he will fight anything..I have told him he can have any furniture from our house.

I will see what he would agree to pay for child support.

I would like to just both agree and sign papers. Sweet Short Simple.

I really dont want to fight or argue.

Now some of my friends have invited us to 2 christmas parties this weekend, I advised my H he was invited, but told him I dont expect him to attend.

I'm going to both of them! H will be at work, so I know he will not be attending and I dont feel like pretending anyway,,I want to go and have FUN. But I told him since they invited him:(

[job]

Happy,
Go over and read daring's latest postings and see what's happened in her world, i.e., divorce discussions.

You can't trust them to do the right thing when the proceedings begin. They will say they will agree to the divorce and child support and many of them will then change their minds and make your life a living h@ll.

Hopefully you and your h can work things out and it will go smoothly, but I've not seen very many that have been done in an amicable manner. Always prepare for the worse, but hope for the best because you can't trust them one bit.

Go to the parties and enjoy yourself. Be yourself and look to the new year for many new adventures and accomplishments for you and your family.

[2BHappy]

Job
I will read Darings post.
I went back over bills last night and without my H 1/2 bills things will be tighter then I thought and there will be a couple of things son and I will have to live without. But like I said I plan to try this out Jan-March, which made me also realize I need to stop all R talks to H, so I guess I will not be filing for D anytime soon.

Could my H and I live together to just raise our son and for financial support ONLY. How would that look? I would have to be totally detached from any type of R with H, and H would have to be totally OK with me living my life on my own terms, neither one of us would be able to see the other as H & W. I mean we would need to be D but living together,,,which I guess is what H is trying to do now.....without the offical D?

The sex would have to stop, I think when H ans I have sex in his mind I'm ok with everythign else going on.

Serious boundaries would have to be set in place and honored on both ends. We would both have to be willing to live without an intimate relationship with OW or OM while living together to raise our son.

Hmmm,,,maybe this is something I will also sit on and think about while Im seeing how it really feels to support son and I on my own. But I dont really think my H could live like that, without sex, without intimate R with a woman, and with staying out of my business other then something that involves our son or home.

I dont know if I could either....

[123Gwen]

2Bhappy - the cost of divorce really depends on your sitch and where you live. You need to talk to any atty if only for an hour to get some sound advice. In my state child support is a straight formula. That being said you may not be able to depend on it.

Definitely get things in order if only to gain some strength. Just knowing you would be okay on your own is going to make you feel better about yourself.

Emotionally we are vulnerable over the holidays. You've been at this a long time and sometimes it is hard to grasp the long view of what you are gaining and losing with D. Take it slow and be kind to yourself.

One more thing...I have a neighbor who is living with her son's father as roommates only after a long term relationship. it was bumpy but now they all seem to handle it in a relaxed manner. It is not ideal but she says she is actually happy again and prefers this option to a complete split. There aren't any rules about what makes a family.

[woundedfool]

Sorry to harp on this, but you really do need to recharge. It is good you are thinking through some of the decisions before you make them.

While you sit on this and think about it. IMMEDIATELY: Re-Read DR Part 1 "The Divorce trap", CH 1 "The Not So Great Escape"

[mleigh4]

Hello, I am so sorry you are in this place right now. It's so draining. I am with woundedfool. Step back and recharge. If you start thinking D and what comes with that it gets overwhelming. We get your frustration, but I think you need to remember that you are asking for things your H is not in a state to give right now. With demands are going to come silence along with pushing him further away.

Is that what you really want? Are you ready to take that step to D? If you have any doubts, step back.

I am reminded of a post I think I saw on Caliguys thread and I think of this a lot in my own Sitch:

What do you need to be able to give H space to figure himself out while being able to live in harmony?

Is there a compromise you can come to where you can both be happy in this temporary sitch? I stress the word temporary - you won't live like this forever.

What would it look like to you to believe that H is ready for an R with you?

The more you demand and give ultimatums, the more he will revert back to his tunnel. Do you really want that or do you want to make your current sitch work until you are BOTH ready to move in one direction or the other?

You can't force it. You have to accept that and decide how long you can go to wait for that

Please try to take some time for yourself. Do things that make you happy and recharge.

[2BHappy]

@Wounded
Being totally honest....I'm not just into reading the DR or DB books again right now, just dont have the motivation to read them

I know I should, but I just dont see the point,,,,

[2BHappy]

@Mleigh4

I dont know what a compromise would look like,,,not sure if I can even figure that out right now.

I do know for some reason lately the pain of finding out about the OW has come back,,,not sure why but it has.

I feel like right now I need some real space, need H to be in his own space.

S14 ask me last night why do I make dad sleep on the couch every night,,,why is he in the dog house...

So s14 thinks I have his dad sleeping on the couch..

I told him his dad falls asleep watching TV after work and that his dad is sleeping there because he wants to.

[2BHappy]

@gwen
Iwould have to not have any feelings of attachment for my H to continue living with him.
And he needs to stop acting like Im his wife when he needs something

[2BHappy]

OMGoodness
This has been going on since July 2013, 1 year and 5months. I don't really know if my H is MLC or WAS or just done with our M. I know that really does not matter...

All I know is ever since I started to really feel done, done standing, done caring, done pretending my emotions have started to go up and down again..WHY WHY WHY I thought once I was done that last thing I would have to deal with is the emotional up and downs. It seems like now again everything can start up the emotional roller coaster, all I can say is I can quickly get back on track and move on with my day, nothing like last year, or last summer even.

I think the other thing that is happening is I know I have been stuffing everything down with food, and believe me I have the weight to show it. Now that I have decided to STOP doing that, these feelings got me all over the place. And this NOT talking to H about how I really feel pisses me OFF. I want to yell scream cuss and tell the world he is not who you think he is!!!

He is a cheater, he is a pretender, a liar!!!!!

His life appears to be smooth because I still help him, remind him of birthdays, keep him inform of what is going on with stepkids, grandkids, his siblings etc.

I listen to him whenever he needs to vent about his work, when he is sick I take care of him, I make sure the house has everything it needs.

I don't ask him about his comings and goings, if he ask me about my comings and goings I tell him.

I invite him places if I think he needs to be invited or friends invited him , with no expectation that he will go.

Does he know how much he hurt me, does he care, does he know our M is about to be truly over, does he care?

At this point I dont even want to think about another R, I dont want to ever hurt like this again!!!!

I admit I was a WAS in the past.

I dont want to do this anymore,,,my goal to wait 3 months, WOW to test out paying bills and saving his 1/2 to see the reality of him not being here..seems almost impossible to wait another 3 months.

I have to detach more, detach to the point of no return to R, I dont think I can ever trust H again!!!

And then for my son to think I put his dad on the couch, WTF why would he think that? Im struggling to keep smile on my face and keep the peace, when I feel like going the F off and letting everyone know what H is..

Oh wow as I type here H ask me to make breakfast for s14, they are heading out christmas shopping,,then said if I'm not tooo busy WTF this is what Im talking about,,leave me alone, stop asking me anything, leave me alone

OMGoodness, I'm on the edge

[2BHappy]

OK So I went an got a much needed mani/pedi.

Then did some christmas shopping. Going to plan some GAL during my vacation time so I can stay busy mentally & physically.

I feel a little better..

When I got home H was just leaving for work and he said "I called your cell" I told him I did not hear it, what did you need..

H said "nothing now" with a attitude. Get the F out of here really really...WHAT DO YOU WANT from me?

I need to find an outlet for these held in emotions, for these things I want to say to my H.

I have no idea what if any phase my H is in.

I just know I feel like I'm slipping back into a bad place emotionally:(

[Matt165]

So sorry to hear about how you are feeling.
I felt the same way back after B-day before W left. She always expected me to be the same caring H I had been before but not expect ANYTHING from her at all. Even when my D14 (at the time) would get angry at her and start to stand up for herself, W would say "Talk to your D and tell her she can't speak to me that way", like I was even supposed to help her R with her own D, no matter how she was acting.

Your H, like my W, isn't able to think of anyone BUT himself. He is totally fixated on HIM. He is a victim, he is the injured party, you are the bad guy, the cause of all that bad "stuff" he is feeling. He can't be trusted to act in any way but in his own self interest.

I know from experience how hard it is, believe me. You have every right to be angry, every right to expect to be heard AND listened to. The thing is, your H can't do it. He just isn't able. He won't be able to for a long time, if ever. What does he want from you? Anything and everything. What does he think he owes you? Nothing. That has been the hardest thing for me to realize. My W, your H...they don't play by any rules except it's all about THEM. Just know that even if you yelled and told him all you want to say, it would be like talking to a wall. It wouldn't mean anything to him except proving you are out to stop him from getting what he feels he needs to be happy. You might feel better after but it wouldn't have any effect on him at all but to make things worse.

Enjoy the holidays as best you can. Get through the stress of it all. Do your best to detach. And remember...you are not alone, we are all with you in spirit!

[2BHappy]

Thank you Matt

I know its a waste of my time to expect anything from H at this time, or to even voice to him my needs.

I prayed and GOD allowed my mind and spirit to calm down. I was then able to just look at the good around me, my H issues, My M is just one thing in my life and I have to stop giving it soo much power.

H talked to s14 about sleeping on the couch it was interesting, H states that he does not sleep on the couch he watches TV after work, falls alseep, then once he wakes up he gets in our bed to sleep.

We have friends who has constantly ask us to get together for cards, well they ask again over the weekend, and H actually came home last night and ask me to call them to see if they can play today after work, wants them to come to our home.

Wow,,,now that I'm wanting/needing some distance he wants to get together with friends. Go figure

[job]

Keep the focus on you and your family. How can he meet your needs when he can't even figure out what he's doing or needs himself? They are so self absorbed during the crisis and until he faces his issues and grows up, he will not be the man you expect him to be, i.e., husband, father, friend, etc.

I'm glad to see he's willing to have friends over to play cards. Listen and observe all that goes on this evening, if they come over. You should be able to tell if he's just going thru the motions or really is enjoying himself.

It's a bit of the distance/pursuit game, i.e., you distance and he comes closer. Keep your expectations low or none. He's not out of the woods yet.

[woundedfool]

@Wounded
Being totally honest....I'm not just into reading the DR or DB books again right now, just dont have the motivation to read them

I know, I can see it in your posts, thats why I am trying like hell to light a fire under your rear. I was hoping the mani/pedi/lunch idea would give you a chance to recharge.

I know I should, but I just dont see the point,,,,

YOU are the point! A HUGE part of this is not just repairing marriage/relationships, its becoming a better YOU!

IMhO: You never really established GAL's that were consistent and about YOU. I think that is where you might have a chink in the armor.

I really think if you start with the basics (and get back to them), you will not only begin to get yourself through the holidays, but you will start to see and achieve other goals.

Its a snowball, make one change, work on sticking to it, and you find the next one becomes a little easier to change and stick with.

The road map is in DR (and DB), you just need to make the choice to look at the map

[2BHappy]

@Job- I will be secretly watching to see if he is really enjoying himself.

Plans are in place for them to come, H is heading to store to have some refreshments.

@Wounded

OK OK, I know I need to re-read DR & DB ASAP ("I don't want to" in my whiny baby voice.) All I can say is they remind me of all this,,and right now I need a break from even thinking about this M or R. BUT I will TRY to start to read one next week, can you pick one DR or DB. Serious which one you think I need to reread first.

And my GALs the ones I have I really enjoy them and I feel that they are about me, but I will look deeper into GALing.

[woundedfool]

OK OK, I know I need to re-read DR & DB ASAP ("I don't want to" in my whiny baby voice.)

TY!

All I can say is they remind me of all this,,and right now I need a break from even thinking about this M or R. BUT I will TRY to start to read one next week, can you pick one DR or DB. Serious which one you think I need to reread first.

DR spoke to me more then DB did, but I think that was because one of the MWD's letter from a LBS fit me so much you could have changed the name to mine.

All I can say is they remind me of all this

I think to a degree, we see what we want from each of them. Thats by a "can do" PMA is not only what we need to show on the outside, but also BELIEVE on the inside.

Don't be Charlie Brown walking around with a dark cloud over your head. Take stock of all the good you have going, and build on that.

[2BHappy]

Happy Holidays everyone

I have so many GAL's plan this week and next!!

H enjoyed playing cards at our home with friends even though we lost. We have all planned to do it again next month.

I have thought about all the greatness in my life and Im grateful and Thanks to GOD for all I have!

[job]

Happy Holidays to you too!

I'm glad to see everything went okay with the card game. Sorry about the loss...but there's always a next time!

[2BHappy]

Wow

The last couple days have been wonderful. H at the last minute had christmas day off from work in exchange for working a double on new years eve. We all got to spend christmas day together with SS's and their GF's and kids and our s14, my Mom, my aunt and cousin on my fathers side.

Christmas night after we were home H had went to visit a friend that was in town for holiday called me from there and ask if I wanted to watch a movie with him when he came home.

H has paid alot of attention to me these last couple of days, ML each day, was asking how I was feeling,,it was kinda alot for me, and I enjoyed each day but not reading much into it, I just called it my christmas gift...

Spent a wonderful day with my son and mom today.

Got plans with a girlfriend tomorrow.

I will read DR on Monday. I have to make sure I continue working on me and DBing as much as I can. H has a long way to go in his journey and even though these last couple of days were wonderful, it will take alot more to get me to even think things are changing for the better...

But I know I'm better and working on being better each day.

I'm looking forward to having an even better 2015.

[2BHappy]

So today while out totally enjoying breafkast then coffee with my out of town friend, I check my phone after being gone 4 hours I notice 11 missed calls in a panic I dail my son cell,,he says he wanted to go over his friends but his dad said I had to be home before he could go..(made it about me not being home in a way) I call H cell and ask if everything is ok he just says s14 wants to go over friends but since H had no idea what time I would be home he said he needed to wait (ok I get that) but then said we been calling you for over 1 hour, you need to check you cell more often (from the H who might not even reply to a cell or vm I leave him) I just told him I did not hear cell ring and I knew he was home with s14 and he could handle whatever.

H was very mad about me not answering phone? S14 was upset casue he was waiting to go over friends and he said dad was mad and making s14 worried cause I did not answer phone.

BUT other then that I had a great time with my friend, apologized for not hearing cell...
after I was sure all was well I stayed with friend another hour,,,this was my GAL and I was not ending it early.

[2BHappy]

I dont even know how to do this anymore.

This morning when my H finally came to bed, I just ask him if he was having sex with anyone..I don't really know where that came from other then I felt the need to ask...

Of course he blows up and never directly answers me, he storms off back to basement, I follow him and tell him I need/deserve an answer.

He starts off with its too early and he wants to rest and Im trying to ruin his day off, he is very upset and Im calm and tell him if he just answers there would be no conversation,,,

He says he has told me over and over and he hates when I ask him questions early when he is tired,,,

I tell him it does not matter when he never wants to talk about anything serious related to us.

Anyway he tells me he is trying his best to stay here to keep my son and my life comfortable and that he knows we are both still hangning in becuase of the good times we have shared. He says he loves me, respect and admires me BUT he cannot forget about all the times I was MIA emotionally and physcially in the past and he knows I will go back to being that way eventually. He said he is tired of me briging up this R he said some days at home are good days and some days he still wants to leave it all behind and be left alone. H reminds me that he has just left a family before but he is older now and trying not to just walk away. He said he is glad that he had a child with a woman he loves and resects, and that he likes the woman I am.

He ask me if I wanted him to leave and that right now he felt like getting up and going to a hotel. I told him that does not scare me, that threat does not affect me anymore...

I sat and listen, I told him this has been going on for a while now and I'm not sure if he feels any differtly,,,he said he does not like to see my hurting and he does not want my son and I lifestyle to change.

He said he feels like he would be ok in a 1room place, just working as much as possible. Said he wants to be left alone.

He said he is not trying to do anything to me, or to add more drama into his lfe or mine.

He told me when I feel miserable I try to make him miserable, I told him Im not miserable I just ask a question, and I told him he is miserable.

He talked more then me, and it seems to me he is in the same place almost, like he still feels the need to leave and be out of this R.

I ask him what he wanted from me, I told him I know I cannot expect a R with him, and does he just want me to leave him totally alone in regards to any type of R with him. He did not answer that,,,

H did tell me that if I do not trust him then I should not be with him.
He said he heard me when I said I dont want to live like this.



H said I ruined his day off he was looking forward to spending day off with son and getting some rest etc. H said he knew I would enjoy the holidays then start back in with the drama.

I really don't feel like I bring him drama, but I guess each time I mention our R and ask him any questions is brining drama no matter how long I wait between asking anything.



I was calm but inside Im hurting, I don't think this is going to have a happy ending, well not the one where we are together and happy.

I know I'm suppose to DB, I know Im suppose to just be here and be the woman only a fool would leave etc, but I try and I can keep trying,,I guess until he decides to leave or I cannot take anymore and ask him to leave. From what he is saying it seems like he knows Im a good person a good woman,,,and still he does not really want me. This hurts and I came here to post to avoid going back to basement and BEGGING, pleading for him to want me, to love me, to work on our M. I came here to post and save what is left of my dignity, to avoid a melt down in front of him, to save myself from begging.

What can I do, how do I get thru this, I don't want to DB I've tried, I want either my R to be worked on, or him to leave and that scares me and hurts me to think about how our son will be affected, how our lives will change.

Is there any hope, I feel so stupid for still even caring for still even being here dealing with this mess and "standing" for this mess.

It's like being slowly punished over and over again. I dont even know what to do now, it's too much.

I just now want to lay in this bed and cry all day long, but I know I cannot I will not.

Please posts your responses, ideas, thoughts,,I will need this today I think almost more then any other time I have posted here..WOW but I know Im strong, but this hurts!

[job]

He's gas lighting you. Notice how he's avoiding answering your questions about if he was having sex w/someone else. If he weren't, he wouldn't be reacting the way he is.

Happy, if he wants to go, let him. He's a huge cake eater and not only is he eating cake, but the ice cream too.

You are not stupid...you are a concerned wife who loves him very much, but you are hitting a brick wall and if he is truly in crisis, you'll not get the answers you want, especially reassurance.

If he continues to gas light you, then you know what will need to be done. If the stress continues to escalate in your home, a decision will need to be made about him living there and sleeping around, yes, sleeping around. That is very disrespectful to you and your marriage vows.

Again, if he wants to leave, let him. Threatening you w/saying he was thinking about leaving is abuse it is to get you to back off. Call his bluff and let him go. He's going to find out that the grass isn't any greener on the other side and he had a wonderful wife, son and life. Sometimes they need to hit the streets to figure things out.

Bottom line, you and your son are the most important people in this scenario and the stress and tension are going to affect you and your son.

I'll share this w/you...when my xh made threats about leaving, I listened several times after he left once and returned, when he made one too many threats, I came home from work one day and opened the door and told him to leave. I wasn't going to put up w/the threats any longer. He sat on the couch and cried like a baby and told me he didn't know what to do. He stayed in our home 1 week and disappeared while I was at work. Talk about peace and calm...I got it. Yes, I was very upset by what he had done, but my home was calm and the stress in my life of wondering if this would be the day he would walk out or not was over. Not very db like, but my mental, physical and emotional health was at stake and I did what was right for me. Have I regretted it? Absolutely not. That is why I say "you will know when you've had enough".

Take care of you so that you can take care of your son and leave that man out on the street panhandling.

[2BHappy]

JOB
Yes I feel that they way he reacted to my questions really sealed the answer as Yes in my mind. I have no idea where that questions came from it just popped in my head and I asked.

I have left the house for now to get away..Im at a coffee shop having coffee, I noticed my hands have been shaking since I left home, but I dont feel that stressed?

I told him that does not bother or scare me his threats to leave! I have no plans on stopping him leaving, I actually think it is the best option at this point for me.

Omgoodness ask I type that my heart sinks...its really OVER!!

I had planned to go to library and read DR, but not sure if there is a point to that now.

I really believe that if the answer was NO to "are you having sex with somone else" then he would have just said NO, maybe been upset that I ask but answer with a NO eiter way. Heck even a man who was would maybe think to say NO (lying) but not my fool...well who really is the fool here, I think it is me.

I have told him before if he wants to leave if that is what he needs to be happy to go to leave. And today when I told him that does not affect me, he can leave,,,he quickly moved onto my faults and what I did wrong in the past in our R our M.

My 3 month plan to pay all the bills on my own may have just gone out the window.

So now back to his cheating AGAIN...I have nothing to go on, and actually the way he has been acting this last week would not even give me a reason to think anything was going on,,,but for some reason...it came out.

I have no idea what to do, no ideal at all.

The home is peacful as long as I dont bring up the R or M, as long as I dont ask him too many questions.

H ask me why now am I strining up drama when we been having good times,,why now,,he said "it will always be like this, cause you are always thinking" always thinking

[2BHappy]

Oh H also said that he is just trying to get our son in a good place and he wished the MTG was lower so the financial strain would be less on me if he left.

So this man is here "working" on getting our son in a good enough place for him to leave.

working on getting our bills lower so he can feel better about leaving his family

I dont need his favors, we can raise our son by coparenting and I can figure out my own finances.

[job]

Calm down! Breathe! It's not over until the fat lady sings or you decide it's over.

Yep, he's gas lighting you and looking for any and every reason to leave, i.e., bringing up your faults, etc. Please do not buy into that mumbo jumbo.

When you go home, act normal. I know it's going to be difficult, but the more normal you are the better. Anger isn't going to get you anywhere w/him because you've seen that he turns the tables back on to you. They won't admit that they are wrong because to do so who shatter their fragile selves, their moral compasses.

You'll know what to do when the time comes. If he's telling you about getting things done, checking the bills and trying to get bills paid off or lowered, then he's been thinking about leaving for some time. If he goes, wish him well and be sure you've got yourself covered in the financial department.

Breathe! You are going to be okay.

[2BHappy]

Job the roller coaster has been up down and all around today

So I went to library and read some DR, then came home, H wanted to talk I was shocked...there were tears on my part but he is quick snap shot of his talk

Yes he continues to put blame on when I was a WAS he said for 17 years,,,he said he does not want to leave, he is not having A or sex with anyone else, he said he is thinking differently then last year, he said he has not recently said he wanted to leave, pointed out that I continue to bring up his leaving, he did say he is not sure about our R, he said he loves me, I said like a family member, he said no like a man loves a woman, told me he use to cherish the ground I walked on until I crushed his soul, by pushing him away by being emotionally and physically unavailable to him.

It was sooo much at once, he says he did not realize it has been over a year and it did not feel that way to him.

I ask him about OW in feb, and what is different now, he says the way he is thinking about things is different..

He said again and again that he does not want to leave, he needs time to figure things out.

I know I cannot belive the things he is saying and that I can only listen. I would need to see actions..

He ask for time, time to know what he really wants, I said if you dont want this M, its best to leave he said he is not saying he does not want this M, ask again for time. I ask if he just wanted time to plan his leaving to just say that and be honest, he said that is not what he is saying,,he seems very confused and I dont know how much if any of this I can belive...

I was shocked he ask me to talk when I got back, shocked that he was telling me how he feels at all.

He was shocked that after all this instead of spending "family time" with him and s14, I went with my plans to go hang out with some girl friends and chit chat.

When I came home he ask to watch a movie with me, acted like NOTHING happen, not all the R talk, not all my tears, like all was normal.

All of this just makes me feel like I need to put up a LARGE guard on my heart...

I don't know what to make of all this, I don't know what to think,,

OMGoodness he just came in the room and ask my who I was emailing this time of the morning (2am here), said its kinda late to be on the computer. STORMED out of the room.

Yes Job, I know he been thinking about leaving, but he seems to forget that conversation earlier this year, when he talked about it, but he mentioned it today saying "that is why,,I wanted to get the MTG lower to make sure you and s14 is ok" but then he turns right around and says he does not want to leave.

I really dont know why I keep brining up anything, it seems to be a waste of my time and energy.

He did tell me that I can not make him leave this house even though it is in my name only. Told me I control all apects of our R and M and that now I needed to stop making it all about me and that I would not force him into a decision he was not ready to make.

OK, I know I might have left out some stuff,,,too much swriling in my head and its late,,going to read and go to bed.

[job]

Happy,
It's time to really step back for a while. The holidays put a lot of pressure on you this year and unfortunately, he's not ready to actually recommit to the relationship. He's still floating around in space. He's told you what he needs, i.e., time. How much time? Who knows...but you either have to dig deeper for patience or let him go. Letting him go doesn't necessarily mean you boot him out. Letting him go means that you continue to live your life, i.e., GALing, doing things w/your son, etc. and leave him to figure things out. If he wants to be a part of your life and activities, he will.

Your h doesn't realize how frustrating it is to have someone living at home and not being a part of the family and/or relationship. To him, he thinks he is participating somewhat.

As for what happened 17 years ago, that is history and needs to be left in the history department. No one should live in the past and continue to bring up things that long ago. He's still laying the blame on to you and not taking any responsibility for his part in the situation. Unfortunately the crisis people do that because they are in the past and don't want to look in the mirror or they might get the shock of a lifetime and come to realize just how messed up their moral compass really is.

I would take some time for myself and think about what you want and how it will affect you and your child. I wouldn't make any serious decisions until after the holidays. Why? Because the holidays tend to escalate tension, stress and expectations from everyone. Give yourself a break. Do something nice and fun w/your son before he has to return to school.

As for your h, he's asked for time...give it to him, i.e., plenty of it to go around and he can either use that time wisely at home or at another location.

Again, as we have pointed out, you and only you will know when you've had enough. You have to do what is best for you and your family. We will support you any way that we can.

[2BHappy]

Job Yes I know I need to step WAY back for a long while.

One other thing my H brought up is how I use to speak to him and about him in front of and with others...so I ask my BFF and my mom and that both agreed, my mom said that somethings I said to or about him in front of her made her feel very bad for him and upset with me that I was treating my H that way:(

My BFF tells me at times she thought I never really loved my H:(

WHen H mentioned this peice of info he was just venting out everything, like I said he has not talked this much about his feelings EVER.

I know I still have alot of work to do on ME, I don't want to treat anyone badly, I think I know why I acted that way and said certain things, my focus will be to learn how to better express myself going forward.

I have learned that this DB is helping me, praying is helping me be a better ME.

I did not tell H I will give him time, but I will. I let him know that IF he wanted to leave I would support his leaving and we would always be friends and great co parents.

I need to let him go while he is here, I got work to do on myself and I will use the gift of time.

I'm spending today reading DR.

I noticed that I have not been attending Church regulary like I was and I need this, I need that peacefulness that I get from started my week of in Church.

H did say he was sorry for the things he did wrong to and in our relationship, this is also something I have not heard in a very long time.

H told me I can check his cell/email if I wanted to. I really wanted to but I declined, not sure why I said no, but I did...

Time I need more time myself, more time to really figure out what I want WITHOUT being on an emotional roller coaster at the same time.

I know I need to pray thru negative thoughts and emotions.

JOB, thank you for continue to take the time to tell me the same thing in different ways, I hear you, but its sometimes hard to take action.

[job]

Happy,
You are very much aware of what you need to work on in the days ahead. Dbing is a way of life and it helps us learn how to communicate and react to actions as well as words.

Don't try to push the process along because it will backfire. You've got to allow it all to play out in order for him to be a better man after the crisis. Pushing for answers is only going to cause you more frustration and heartache because you aren't getting what you want and when you want it.

You do not need to make a decision today or tomorrow. Wait until after the holidays and get this high stress level holiday out of the way. Your expectations need to be dialed down to zero or 1, nothing more.

Come here when you need to talk and learn that the more you ask the same questions, the more you are going to get frustrated because he's going to tell you the same answers over and over again.

Someone is always here to listen, so stop by when the frustration begins to bubble.

[2BHappy]

Im re reading DR and I'm learning again, just to share...

Timing of questions, I know my H hates to talk about anything early in the morning or right after he gets in from work. But I chose to ignore this because I wanted to talk when I wanted to talk and of course it was a diaster...

I also may be missing the little things "the baby steps" that when I think about I can see in my H the baby steps he has taken since BD.

AND a key point that I had to re read several times to get it to stick in my head

I cannot should not ask my H for anything right now, I cannot ask for what I want, my H is not at that point.

This morning, my H gets out of bed early for him, starts to get dressed I want to know so bad where he is going so early...

I say nothing other then good morning, he says good mornign back continues to get dressed,,,

Then he tells me he is going to meat market to get ribs to make for us before he goes to work for a double shift tonight...

I had mentioned ribs for New Years day dinner a couple days ago,,

So this is a another baby step that I plan to look out for and pay attention to.

My H hates stores of any kind so for him to get up early on a day he has to work a double shift,,,I need to acknowledge that,,

So I ask him if he needed me to do anything while he was at store,,,and when he gets back I will make sure to say Thank you and I really appreciate it. And I do, I will not have to cook today or tomorrow.

I also saw me in the part of the DR book where if I'm mad about something I actually make it worse with my attitude, my H does not react well to anger it makes him shut down..

Ok I reading and learning and trying to start with a beginners mind not sure if I really got that point the first time.

[2BHappy]

Wounded where are you

THANKS for the constant reminders to RE READ DR & DB.

Job, THANKS for all your responses I needed them.

[mleigh4]

2BHappy - I just caught up on your posts and I'm so sorry I didn't see these the other day. At first, I didn't like the way your H was circling around your questions. I swear, between him and my H and your sitch, I can totally relate, they are so alike. But I like the way he took the time to talk with you when you came home, and answered your questions. I especially like how he told you you can check his phone and emails. He is asking for time because he is not able to give anything right now. Think back to when you were a WAS, because I did the same, can you remember how you felt? How you just kind of needed time and space to figure out your feelings? How you just didn't feel that close connection with your H? It's possible this is how he feels, especially the way he explains it.

IMHO - with his openess, if it was me, I would give him the time. What have you got to lose? Use that time to continue working on you so that when the time comes to face the R, you are ready to either go with it or walk away.

[2BHappy]

mleigh4

Yes, I need to give him as much time as I can. I do recall when I was a WAS, but of course in my head I think "I was not this bad" "I was not this distant" but that is only my perception. But I do know how I felt, like I could not stand my H, like I could not wait until my son was out of HS so I could leave,,,wow now I pray I don't get that wish. I know how horrible I was as a WAS and I see now how much I really hurt my H back then.

I know H and I are different in how we respond and think, I need to really really give him space, and I have things I still need to work on within myself.

mleigh4

2015 I know it will be better then 2014 in regards to my R with my H, dont know if that means we will be H & W, but our R with each other will be better.

I know for a fact I will be a better person!

Happy New Year

[mleigh4]

I think the same things in my head about when I was a WAS. No way was I this bad! I wonder if we were in our own fog and have forgotten things? I couldn't stand the sight of my H. I would dread going home each day after work, I only did for my S. I did not have good feelings and I figure if H had pushed me to feel something for him, it would have pushed me farther away. The best thing my H did was back off and give me the space I needed to find my way back home. Unfortunataly, we may be paying that price now.

I think if we look to our own experience, it may give us the strength and patience our H's need right now.

You sound good, I hope you have a great day. Happy New Year!

[woundedfool]

Wounded where are you

THANKS for the constant reminders to RE READ DR & DB.

Right here

No problem, I can see a change in your tone after that re-reading. Keep it up!

Plus in the spirit of asking for what you want, I do want to to write down those goals of what you would like to have happen.

Again: Keep it up! & HNY!

[2BHappy]

Ok need advice

So I have been pretty good at hiding my DR & DB books.

Well I slipped up since H was not home I laid book on table, s14 sees the book and reads the title DR, he was like oh wow Mom,,,

And he left the room, I called him back and showed him the test of title that said 7 steps program for saving your marriage..I had to call him back several times he keep saying he did not care and did not want to talk about it, once he came back I told him I was just reading to try and make our marriage better and that we are not getting a D. He keep saying he did not care, I then ask him to not tell his dad and he said why not, I told him his dad might get mad cause he does not think anything is wrong with our marriage and I just wanted to make it better, spice it up, s14 said no mom its saves "save your marriage"

I tried to make light of it and said S14 you know I read anything and there is nothing to worry about,,,he again said I don't care and left the room,

I called him on his cell (he refused to come back to talk)and ask him if he had any questions he said no and I dont care,,he said Mom you care, but I don't.

Not sure if I even handle this right, not sure what I should have said or done, and I pray s14 forgets he even saw this book and does not say anything to his dad.

I dont know what else to say,..

[job]

Happy,
Give him some time to digest what he saw today. I'm sorry your son saw the book, but I would let him know that you purchased the book after his father had moved out and read it then to see what you could do to help save your marriage and to help you to have a better understanding of what was happening. I would tell him that the only reason it was out now is that you were re-reading parts of it to see if you and your h were still on track and if there were any other suggestions that you may have forgotten since purchasing the book a year or so ago.

Don't try to explain yourself any further until you sense he's ready to talk about it. Okay? If he does tell his father, be honest with him as well. Honesty is the best policy and I'm sure your h would understand since it was purchased long ago.

[2BHappy]

OK
I did tell s14 I was being honest with him and that marriages sometimes most times hits times/phases where it needs extra work to stay on track. S14 said he did not want to talk about it, that H and I marriage is our business and not his and that he would not care if we did get a D he only cares that we are both happy,,,he told me if I wanted to talk about it to call my mom and talk to her....

Just update, my H never moved out...it was threaten early on, and I offered/suggested several times, but my H has been in our home the entire time,,,since BD

I told him that he knows I love to read and I wanted to see what ideas this book had to offer...

But S14 got stopped playing xbox after seeing the book and got into bed,,,I ask why he stopped playing he said he just needed a break,,,now s14 seems a little tense,,,

I told I wanted to make sure our M is in a good place...

I keep talking I was sooo dang ole nervous, then I felt like a jerk to have not thought about keeping the book hidden.

I wish s14 had never seen this book.

[job]

Happy,
I'm sorry, I was thinking of rH when I mentioned your h moving out.

Give him some time. The more you try to explain, the more he's going to pull away.

It's true, relationships do hit some stumbling blocks along the way and the "partners" have to work a little bit harder to find ways to keep the communication open and work on the issues together.

Again, I'm sorry he saw the book. Give him the time and space to digest the info. Leave him be for a while. Okay?

[2BHappy]

Yes I will not bring it up to s14.

If S14 mentions it to me I will be as honest as I can, without telling our adult business, without details.

[job]

I'm sure that once he's had some time to think about it, he'll come around and ask questions. He just needs some time to think about things.

It will be okay.

[mleigh4]

2BHappy, I don't think it is bad that your S saw the book. It's a book about improving your marriage and shows that you are wanting to make things better. Trust me, children know when something is not right with their parents. I think honesty is best. The best lesson I believe for our kids is the reality that relationships are not always smooth. Problems will come and go. It's up to us to teach them not to run and hide from it, but to face it and work at it.

Hopefully that is what he sees with the book. I don't know, that's just my opinion. You did nothing wrong, you are trying to do right.

[123Gwen]

I think the title with the word Divorce is a little scary for your son but he has sensed tension in your home. You were honest and they can respect honesty. Son doesn't need all the details but the fact that you are trying to be honest is a good thing. The trick with teens and MLC seems to be that you can't dwell on a topic too much or it becomes a disaster.

[Matt165]

Hi 2B,
I agree with the others about it not being a bad thing that S14 saw the book. The year after B-day while W was still at home she insisted that D13 and D19 didn't know that anything was wrong. The thing is they both knew! They just didn't feel comfortable talking to her as they could see that the problem was with her. I was the one they came to when they had questions. I decided that I would be honest with them. I told them that their mother was going through a though time, wasn't sure what she wanted but that I still loved her and would do whatever I could to make our M work. I KNOW that it helped them when my W told them that she was moving. They were much more prepared than if it had come out of the blue.

I can tell you that your S14 already knew that there were problems in your M. My 13 year old was well aware that my W refused to touch me, wasn't at all a part of her family. Your S knew (knows) a lot more than you think. Honesty is what he needs from you, now and in the future!

[2BHappy]

Everyone thanks for all the replies

I always try to be very honest with s14 without too many details.

And he probably picks up no more then I want him too or think he does.
I just hope he is not worried.

This is going to help me DB even more, I have to stay upbeat and hopefully my s14 will see that even in tough times you can stay upbeat and do you best to make a situation better.

S14 has not said anything more, and I will not unless he does.