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If there is any vet that would like to give me some hints of how to understand what is going on, I would appreciate...

As planned H and I met on saturday night, I tough we would talk about the bid D, but as he said before we did not. We talked about us. I apologize again for making him so unhappy during our M, for being so unhappy for a long time, for being so stressed with my son's sickness. He also apologize, saying that he recognized he could do many things different and that he could be there for me a lot more, support more, and he didn't.

We also talked about good stuff, we cried, we laugh, he was nice and I end up having one too many glasses of wine. He helped me because I was very dizzy. When we got home, he helped me to get to bed and he end up in be with me. I know it was not good for both of us.

On sunday he showed up at the house to check how I was doing and said he is very worry about me, that he feels I am lonely and he knows he can't be there for me all the time. He said that he cares for me deeply and because of it he has his feeling mixed up. That he is confused but he needs to understand that maybe he feels this way because I am and was that most important person in his life, that he loved me for so long time that it is hard to separate things now.

He did apologize for taking advantage on the situation on saturday night. I told him it was not his fault and that I am an adult too. He said he is afraid I am not taking good care after myself.

He cried a lot, saying that he feels guilty for what he is doing to me, that he feels guilty for giving so much pain to all of us, including the kids, but he feels in his heart and brain that he needs to Move on with his life.

The only thing is that he said that 3 times. On the third time I finally blow up on him. Not bad, I did not yelled and was not angry. But I told him I can't change his decision, that I can not interfere in what he thinks is right for him, that I can only change myself and move on with my life. That I feel a big pain inside but I do not have a choice besides taking care after myself.

He told me he can't be there for me as he always did. That he fears that I don't have friends and that I am not being good to myself. I really don't get it.

I told him I have my friends what is amazing the support I have been getting from them. That I don't feel alone and I don't think I need to put a show for him to see that I am moving on with my life.

In my opinion, he is going crazy... I don't initiate any kind of communication, I don't ask him anything. He is the one that text me everyday for silly stuff sometimes. He is the one that calls me, and yet I don't answer him right away. He is the one inviting me to go out with him.

He is the one calling me honey, baby. On saturday, after dinner I said that he could drop me off at home, that I did not want to bother him. He said that he had a date with his wife and that he had nothing more important to do.

Oh my, I wish I can just understand all what goes in his head. I don't get all what is going on. Now I am mixed up too. He can easily end this nightmare, he can serve me the D papers and it is the beginning of the end, but he does not and keep saying all these things and can't detach from me and then say that I am the one that needs to move on and be happyl

Does anyone have some advice for me?

Thanks to all of you.
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Thanks Toots,

You are a good friend, and one that understands were I am right now. Today I feel miserable. I am trying my best to be the upbeat girl but it has been hard.

Sometimes I feel would be so much easier to just put the D papers myself and let go. But I have kids with this man and I won't stop contact anyway. Besides, I love him, love our R now, love the way he has been with me.

His mixed up feelings made a mess on my head this weekend. By one hand he says he will always love me but it is not the same way anymore, then he says that he loved me so long and so intense, that he feels very confused right now.

He says that he can't be there for me anymore, that he can't be responsible for me... and then he says he will always care and be there for me as much as possibly can.

He looks at me with intensity, he hugs me and cry on my shoulder saying he knows he needs to let go because he believes he need to Move On with his life.

He told me he never cheated on me, even when he went to see the OW, that he couldn't, he just couldn't get himself to do that.

He speaks with me and I feel he wants to blame me for all what he is going through.

I told him that he needs to do what he thinks is best for himself and if this means he will leave me then be it, that I can't change him. Told him it's all bitter/sweet because I feel the pain of loosing him but I am happy it happen to me since I am becoming a better person for myself.

I don't know what to do. Sometimes I feel he is also in some MLC. I hear his words and he is sometimes so sure of what he wants, but when I asked if he wants me to put the D papers and then he would be free of my burden on him, he said no, not yet.

So what the H.ll?

And my head is just spinning crazy today because I don't know if I just file for a legal separation to protect the kids and myself financially. Since he is so unbalanced, maybe he can go crazy and spend a lot of money, or sell the house, whatever. He promise me that he will not do anything without talking to me.

Toots, he is a good man. And I regret so many times I was a very annoying person, I wanted it my way. I want to make a point and try to change him. I did so many things wrong that brought us to this situation now. He also tells me that he has been thinking and that he could do many things different in our M/R - he tells me that he was not there for me many times and that made me very depressed and unhappy because I was dealing with so much at the time.

He told me that he was in agony seeing how unhappy I became this last year. An it is true, sometimes I tough that I could drive very fast and finish it all.

I will read DR again as you advise me, will sit down w/myself and review and rewrite my goals. Try to make some sense of why he is doing all this.

Thanks for the support, it is a amazing comfort.

Hugs
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I'll catchup on your sitch.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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Hi Pink,

I'm sure that Bug will catch up and offer some questions for you, and I'd like to do the same.

You sound like you have a lot going on with your kids and activities. I know first hand how much juggling can deplete energy and the ability to focus on things at hand.

I wonder if you've always been so agreeable in regards to your H? And have you always been silent on issues that bother you so that you act out passive aggressively? I can give you some examples from your posts if that is more helpful. But as I read through your posts, I saw a woman who was silently in such pain but unwilling to fight for herself and what is important. You seem to keep a stiff upper lip when you've said here you're breaking inside. Has your H *ever* seen that side of you? I wonder if he thought that you really don't care by what you've said to him?

Please don't misunderstand that I think you should be a rager. I don't! But your silent anger is present for a reason, and my guess is from a childhood wound that you haven't addressed. Or could it be your culture? I'm not sure. I'm just interested in hearing how you came to this point. Do you suppress your emotions to the point where others feel you are aloof or indifferent? I know you said that things are better after the bomb, but I wonder why.

You mentioned that he feels you are not taking care of yourself. Have you always let him be the thermostat for how you feel? Personally, I'd feel as though that is a very unreasonable burden and I'd not want it either. I think he's giving you a road map to what he needs from a partner. Can you see this? Are you lonely? Do you depend on him to be your main source of friendship to the exclusion of others? I don't mean acquaintances. I mean deep, emotionally connected relationships with other people.

I would love to hear what sort of background you have to understand your passive aggressiveness. If you can tap into the why, you can change and learn how to express yourself honestly and with humility. Anger isn't a deal breaker, Pink. But how you get angry just might be. Passive aggressiveness comes from a long time survival technique and unless you address the why, you won't be emotionally honest with people.

So if you could share, that would be great.

Hugs-Betsey


"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

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Underdog,
Thanks for all your kind words. You are right on the money.

I think at this point it's all together. My culture, my background, my life until I got here. You are the first person in my life that reads me so fast and so precisely.

My childhood was filled w/happiness and suffering, with joy and sadness. I grow up in a farm. We had it all, calls, pigs, chickens, horses. I even had my own horse. Life was simple and happy and yet I was spanked by my mom to a point a had no more pain and no more tears.

My mom is alive, I love her with all my heart because I understood why she took it all on me. I forgave her long time ago. I think I was born strong inside, I took decisions, I mature very fast. My father was an alcoholic at times, when he was in his sober times life was a blessing, and when he was in his alcoholic times life was hell.

I was also abused by my stepfather that came to live with us for awhile. I am luck it was not the worse abuse, he made me touch him a few times. I never open this to anyone in my family, the first person I told it was my husband.

Now I am starting to understand that I develop some kind of defense mechanism and no one in this world would pass my limits. No one. Including my own children.

I never gave myself 100%. I never trusted no one 100%. I was always waiting to be hurt, to be betrayed, to feel pain.

I never let anyone to tell me what to do, but with H it was different. He is sincere, kind, affectionate and time to time I let him take care after me. It felt good not to be so strong.

I could do anything with the assurance that he would be there, in the shadow, looking after me and approving what I was doing. Sometimes I even recognized what I was doing.

In our R, I was the one to take care after my family, the one taking decisions, the one moving everybody around. But I never want to be alone, even to go to the supermarket. I always want someone with me.

In the same time that I want someone to be there with me, I treated my H like crap. I criticized him many times, I ignored him and his needs many times. He likes to show affection, hugs, kisses, and I don't. I want and I don't do it. Every time we made love was fantastic, he would even say this to me, but many times I escaped from that because I did not want to be touched and of course, it became a problem in our M.

Being in USA did not make it easier. Besides the culture difference, my H travels a lot for work (outside the country, I raised my children basically by myself. When we moved to Colorado it was stressful with babies.

When the kids started getting older, money was necessary and I started cleaning house with a friend. The money was excellent but it destroyed my confidence. I know how hard this work is, I know it is a honest way of making money, but I develop a sense of inferiority and it became another problem for my R w/H.

Finally I stopped it and got an office job and I am doing pretty good. But then life turns around again and my S20 is diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder, it was hell for about 4months then he started getting better. My S14 got whooping cough for 60 days straight and at this point I did let go.

I was so depressed that I feel I had some fog in my eyes. I died inside. I did not fight anymore, did not argue, did not even cry. Sometimes I even tough would be better to just free my H and let him find his life somewhere else.

A week before my H asked me for a D, I asked him, I said right on his face that he was unhappy with me, that I felt he did not love me anymore and I was unhappy with him.

Later, a week from my crazy blow out, he gave me the same speech. That I did not love him for a long time. The only difference he said that he met someone and that he would like to give himself a chance to be happy because we would never be happy together. He said it was killing him to make me unhappy and he could not take it no more.

Losing him woke me up. It was like I could see again. I got myself an IC, I decided to educate myself about R, M and issues related to it. I found out I have many gaps that are not related to H that I need to fill.

And that's why I say that it's bitter/sweet... this pain made me to wake up old wounds that I need to address or I will never be happy even with myself.

I don't know if H loves me yet or not, I feel he does. I feel he would like to be with me but he is afraid he will walk back into hell. He is gentle with me, I know he care deeply for me, but he says he does not love the same way anymore. The OW I don't know for sure, he told me that.

And I came to this board, the place that is teaching me so much how to be a better person for myself and for others. I never tough I would get help from strangers with no face, no real names. It's just amazing the power of giving that surround this forum. Thank you so much!!!

So now I know some of what's is wrong, I told my IC about some of this issues. But I don't know how to clean them up inside me. So, if you have any idea, I will sure try and start a new life. I know it will take time, but I want to became myself and I am up to the hard work.

Thank you again for helping me!

Pink


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Hi Pink - hope you're doing okay....:-)

Just a few thoughts from me....you made a few comments - should I do this or that, or just D. When you are so emotional isn't a good time for making big decisions, so put them on the back burner for now. You can decide on big stuff in due time & when you feel sure and ready.

I'm sorry for your childhood traumas. It sounds as though H has been important to you in that you have shared & trusted in him alone in certain things. I can see how that now makes the betrayal (in whatever form.....it sounds like an EA at least) more painful.

It sounds as though working on you will need to focus on some unresolved things from your childhood. And hopefully this will be a really positive thing for you.

I'm also picking up on some dependency - or at least perceived so - in the comments from H. And in your own comments of not wanting to do things alone. Is that still the case for you?

I suppose we are all hoping to get to the point where we can care for ourselves enough that we don't need someone else to do that. But we may want them as icing on the cake. What would it take for you to feel you had reached that point?

You said before that you don't want to be a victim. Did that also link back to childhood? What would not being a victim look like? What would you be saying? How would you feel? What steps might you take towards this?

Since my 'dip' at the weekend, my PMA has been super high. I've felt quite a sense of peace with the situation this week. I think I am feeling more acceptance of things as they are for now. Who knows what next year may hold - but I feel I'm getting to a good place within myself....regardless of what H might be doing. This great PMA might be fleeting....but it's nice to feel this way - even if just for a bit! ;-)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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(((((Pink)))))

Well, I was thinking either sexual abuse or alcoholism and rage, but not both. That's incredibly hard, and thank you so much for sharing. I know it's hard. There is so much there that I think I know what I want to say.

Quote:
So now I know some of what's is wrong, I told my IC about some of this issues. But I don't know how to clean them up inside me. So, if you have any idea, I will sure try and start a new life. I know it will take time, but I want to became myself and I am up to the hard work.


As my dad says, you eat an elephant one bite at a time. It looks daunting, but it doesn't really matter where you start, just *that* you start.

I completely understand your isolation and holding back. I truly do. I've been accused of that in my own intimate relationships, and it is 100% truthful. I'm a work in progress. Everyone is.

Rather than focus on your marriage, I'd like to see you focus on addressing some of these childhood wounds. My parents also employed spanking, only because it was how they were parented. I've forgiven them as well. They didn't spank me to the extent you were (I was mouthy and probably didn't show enough respect anyway). And while I can sense that you have forgiven her, apparently that isn't enough. There's some forgiveness issue lurking under the surface. Understandably. If I were in your shoes and facing these wounds for the first time before wanting to heal them, I'd have to acknowledge that I was angry with my mom for 1) making poor choices with men; 2) allowing men into her life without protecting ME; and 3) For not seeking help for all involved.

There, that's out now. And you can't change the past. You can't even change how you feel about your past, until you address it, process it and let it go. Not sweep it under the rug, Pink. But let it go, and then it will allow you to stop letting your inability/unwillingness to be vulnerable have so much power in your life.

My own mom grew up in a very proper English household. One did not speak out or utter any impolite words or feelings to the point that it was praised to act dishonestly for the sake of being proper. And no I Love You's were said, nor was their outward physical affection. My dad's family is the complete opposite. They have lived all over the world, they say gushy and meaningful words, they've always told me they loved me and yes, they are huggers and kissers. My mom was initially very uncomfortable being around them. But deep down inside, she had always dreamed of having people hug her. So she decided that her way svcked and that she'd work on being more affectionate. I can still see parts of her parenting that hold on to her upbringing, but she can hold her own. smile

At the age of 49, my guess is that it's not going to be easy for you. I mean, nobody would expect you to wake up tomorrow and tell everyone you love them and start hugging them. But you can start small. Start by telling people how grateful you are for what they do or say or for acts of kindness that touch you.

What have you done for the depression? It runs in my family as well, so I'm not saying this with judgment.

The bad thing about defense mechanisms that aren't literally life and death situations is that you protect yourself from hurt, but you also insulate yourself from love. And in order to love others, you have to love yourself first. By protecting your heart, your soul is telling you that it is painful.

Quote:
But I never want to be alone, even to go to the supermarket. I always want someone with me.


Can you tap into this childhood wound a little bit and expound a bit?

Quote:
When the kids started getting older, money was necessary and I started cleaning house with a friend. The money was excellent but it destroyed my confidence. I know how hard this work is, I know it is a honest way of making money, but I develop a sense of inferiority and it became another problem for my R w/H.


Society today makes this very issue so doggone difficult. When I first moved to Colorado in 1991, I was a newlywed and hadn't been without at least ONE job since I was 15 years old. It was really hard for awhile... I was unemployed for 9 months. Yes, I had a husband to support me, but this was about who I defined as me. And my self worth was tied up in my paycheck. So I DO understand. But what I ultimately learned is that having a job no more defines me than what other people think of me. It's a means to an end. Period. It means that I'm willing to do whatever I need to do to take care of my family. There is no shame in that, Pink.

I'll share a quick story with you. It's something about this new age of American culture that disappoints me. I grew up the daughter of a policeman. We never had money, and my dad worked 2 side jobs on his days off to bring more money in. My XH's family is of Norwegian descent (he's 2nd generation). They also have a very strong work ethic. So it's ingrained in me. Back in 2008 when the markets crashed, a friend of ours lost 2 meaningful jobs within 2 years. His wife was having back problems and it was getting tough for her to sit at a desk, and they had 2 kids. Another mutual friend of ours owns his own company, and offered him a very lucrative desk job. It wasn't exciting, but it paid decently, with the opportunity of making more. Our friend offered it to him with full understanding that when he found a job in his field, he could move on without hard feelings. This person had been out of work for almost a year when this offer was placed. And is wife was getting more and more debilitated by her desk job and was in dire need of surgery. Yet he turned our friend down. Why? "Because doing that job is beneath me. You should ask my wife if she wants it." We were so angry with him. This entitled crap is embarrassing. It's not the old American way.

And BTW, my mom has a college education, is a classically trained pianist and she cleaned houses for years to bring in extra money while we were in school. My dad has a degree in Criminal Justice from American University, yet his side jobs were painting houses and working at the local bowling alley. You do what you need to do to protect your own. Be proud of that.

Quote:
Losing him woke me up. It was like I could see again. I got myself an IC, I decided to educate myself about R, M and issues related to it. I found out I have many gaps that are not related to H that I need to fill.

And that's why I say that it's bitter/sweet... this pain made me to wake up old wounds that I need to address or I will never be happy even with myself.


This is exactly what I would advise you to do. You can't expect your H to fill the needs that you aren't willing to fill yourself.

So... it sounds like your H truly does care about you. Let's let that lie for the time being. Any problems with your marriage sound like they have tentacles attaching them to your childhood wounds. Until you heal them, it's not going to plug the dam, so to speak.

You deserve a life of happiness and warmth. And your boys deserve having a mother who is fulfilled and emotionally healthy. Have you found an IC who really connects with you? By that, I mean one where you've given yourself permission to be 100% forthcoming with your wounds and trust them to help you move past them?

Hugs, friend. I'll wait for our friend, Bug, to come offer her support as well. Until then, can you think of one thing today that brings you joy and gratitude?

Betsey


"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

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Toots,

It's really great that you can enjoy "at least a bit" of the inner peace you feeling.

Regarding to your questions, I will need to think about them and have time to do so. It will help me to organize my thoughts and think about some solutions.

I don't really feel I am a victim, but many times I felt sorry for myself, my suffering, and I would think that H was just a selfish bastard that wouldn't care for no one else but himself. Maybe it was all my perception, maybe I was totally in denial that I was not doing any good to anyone, but I was suffering because I was not setting priorities, boundaries, and so on.

I will need time to sort all this. My head will explode soon.

I will write more later today. I am at work now and need to finish some patients stuff.

Talk to you soon. Hugs!


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Toots and Underdog,

Today was a tough day, but putting me against the wall made me concentrate and isolate what really hurts inside my soul to date.

The sexual abuse and the spanking has giving me more pain then far more then all things I have been through in my life.

My IC is very smart and I like him a lot. He worked with me to get out of the big desperation I was after the D bomb. He told me last week that it is time to work on me.

I told him the truth and felt really good that I can talk to him with such freedom.

It's really hard to talk about these two issues because I go back and feel like I am the little girl again. It is even hard to explain how I turn into that child.

But I agree with you both, that it is time to face it with tears or not, I need to find the way to get passed it. I will talk to my IC tomorrow and develop a plan with him and with the help I am getting here, I know I will be able to accomplish it. The truth is that I already started that path, I am cleaning the closet already.

My dependency started with my husband, maybe because he felt so responsible since the first day I got to USA. He says we are and will always be super good friends with or without our R and I think he is right. Because our situation, we got extremely close and relied on each other a lot.

But here comes the bad side, he is the only person for me. I have friends but not in a very deep relationship. I never gave that space to anyone. I am a very likable person, I am easy going, optimistic, fun to a point, do not put my nose in anyone's business, I don't really judge people.

So I have a case of dependency on him. Maybe he is suffocated by this. I was thinking why he kept saying over and over that I do not have friends and that he is really worried. I told him I have my friends and they are helping me with all what going through, but he knows people, he can read people much better then me, and he probably knows me better then I know myself, he knows all what you also knows now.

FEAR... I have a lot of fear, insecurities that came from fear. ANXIETY... I feel very anxious when I am alone. If I need to go somewhere, I get very anxious and I delay the departure, I procrastinate.

I was not like this my whole life, I became more and more afraid of moving forward. I now see I have been lost for a long time and in denial.

How do I want to see myself? I would like to see myself, not the many masks I put to get through the day.

How do I get there? Like Underdog said... a little bit every day... I did start today and feel good I did.

Regarding my M. I don't know what will happen, maybe we have a chance, maybe not. I really don't know because I still can't figure it out. But I think that I can put it aside for a little while and work on myself instead.

When I met my H in 1996 we were in a very large Sales Meeting in Ixtapa, Mexico. I was out of a R with someone I loved a lot. I was not married to him but we were together from 1992 to 1994. H met a very nice lady, I was very pretty, secure of myself, happy with a big smile in my face. I had my good job with a good pay, I was very thin and looking good. So he met someone very independent.

It make sense that he is feeling I am so dependent now. He knew someone very different. I doesn't mean I don't resolve all issues around the house, but I became a mom and a annoying wife and forgot the woman behind.

Ahg... my stomach hurts again, my head hurts and I feel I would like to put myself inside a well and cover it. I am so sorry I didn't see all this before, why I was so stupid I lost a good man because I was blind? Sorry, I am just venting... I hope things will get better and I can be happy again.

Right now I see it so far away, but I know that we all go through tough times but if I do my best, I can get there. I think it is just facing my issues put me in a crying mode today.

One thing I am thankful today is that I am having help from you guys... I am really thankful, I feel stronger to face all this that keeps eating my soul. You give me courage to tackle my demons.

Like I said, I will meet my IC tomorrow, and I will let you know what plan we will have to resolve unfinished business inside of me.

Hugs, hugs and hugs.
I want the hugs and kisses, so I will start giving them.

Pink


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Pink,

I have so much I want to say to you, but I think Underdog covered it much more eloquently than I ever could.

Life takes us down paths and as we travel them we change, for better or for worse. I don't think you were blind. I think you were doing what you felt you needed to do. To keep your house going, to take care of your sons, to take care of your H. Ypu were doing the best you could, at the time.

You've got a great starting point. And you have to take it one step at a time. Please talk to your IC or doctor about possible treatment options for your anxiety and any depression you might have. It could be traditional medicine, holistic, or a mix. I myself finally bit the bullet and went on anti depressants about a month ago. Kicking and screaming (ok, depressed and mopey was more like it) but I did it. I have found it's helped take the edge off and level things out so the lows aren't so low anymore.

((Pink)) I admire your bravery.


M:32,H 32
T:10, M5
BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger
H Mental Illness Diagnosis: 4/15
Served D Papers: 10/15
Divorced: 11/15
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