Detached, but not defeated

[Bridge]

I know I'm not supposed to have more than one thread, but I accidentally posted in Midlife Crisis first, and I would prefer to have my posts in newcomers.

First, I just want to say I have been following all of your stories for months now and have been so inspired by so many of you—Maybell, Claire, TO, 25yars, Lisa, Card, and so many more I know I''m forgetting. The courage you all having shown is amazing and has given me strength so many times.

For the past several months, starting in February of this year, my husband has been saying he's done. Then we go back to our lives, I try to be a good wife and mom and ignore what he's said, and two or three weeks later, it comes up again, usually when I (thinking everything is normal again) ask if he wants to do something as a family. Last week it was a trip to the pumpkin patch. The pumpkin patch! He dislikes me so much he can't even handle going to a pumpkin patch with me and my two daughters. Because he doesn't want to do things as a family, he often takes my girls out without me, under the guise of "giving me a break" when really he just doesn't want me to come, which is fine. I've struggled so much with depression in the first half of our marriage and had a breakdown Christmas weekend that made him "done" so I guess I'm unloveable at the moment.

It hurts so much when he takes the kids without me. It absolutely breaks my heart. Today was awful because I thought he was going to be at work and
I planned a really nice Halloween with my girls and he stayed home and just sort of took over, meaning I wasn't going to get to take them trick or treating because that would be doing something as a family and he can't have that! He took me into our bedroom today and asked when I was going to accept that he's done so he can move out. He said he know's he's been torturing me for six months and doesn't want to do that. I cried so much while he and the kids were out trick or treating and then I'm very sorry to say my girls saw me still crying when they returned. I'm the worst mom ever for letting them see that. I know I need to be strong for them and let go, and that's what I've decided to do. Here's my plan of action:

• I am allowing H to have what he wants. We talked last night after I finally calmed down and I tried to listen and validate as much as possible. We ended the conversation with me politely agreeing it would be best if we separated for now and he stayed at his mom's.

• With him not in the house I'll be able to be more emotionally stable and show him my "best self." It's been complete torture having him here and making it clear he doesn't love me. That is not good for my kids.

• Staying at his mom's might give him a taste of what a divorce would actually be like, and to be honest, financially, this is not something we can afford at this time. I do believe once he crunches the numbers and considers getting his own place, (His mom will not let him stay there forever. She's totally against his decision and wants him to work on the marriage. Go MIL!) he'll see it's just not feasible. We really don't have money in the budget for a second home. This is good, because I don't think he understands the financial ramifications of divorce.

• I've agreed to letting him come and be with the kids two days during the week and Saturdays at his mom's.

• We do have an appointment for a MC I found on the directory of pro-marriage therapists. I made it last week and the appointment is in two weeks. I asked him if he wants to keep it and said it's up to him and that even if we get divorced we probably should see someone. He said we probably should so we don't have to reschedule if we change our minds.

• I'm going to be spending this time enjoying my two awesome daughters without the anxiety of him coming home and me worrying what he's thinking or him deciding to cut me out of a fun activity because he doesn't want to be a family with me. I think the mood in the house will actually change when he's gone.

• Read and re-read DR, not just with the hope of restoring my marriage, but restoring myself. And if I do restore my marriage, my husband will have to make changes too, because right now, he is not behaving like the man I married (compassionate, forgiving, unconditionally loving).

This whole thing is so awful, but writing everything out in bullet points is helping me think more clearly. I will get through this, I pray, with my marriage in tact. I did make a fool of myself yesterday though. Wish I could take all that crying back. I'm just so scared.

[123Gwen]

Bridge,

My heart goes out to you. it sounds like you are really thinking things through and focusing on the silver linings. It is very hard to do but if you can stay positive and calm you will feel more in control over your own life.

Keep DBusting and reading the threads for advice and inspiration. You can get through this. Keep positive and take care of yourself. You are worth so much and the stronger you feel the more you will believe in yourself.

[rd500]

Bridge. So sorry to read your story You seem to be doing all the right things. Don't worry about your Ds seeing you cry. It was a surprise / shock and your human. Stay strong and I hope it all works out for you Take care

[Bridge]

Thanks Gwen and rd. This morning I'm feeling much more optimistic. I will keep reading the threads and DR. My mom is coming to visit next week (we have had a shaky relationship in the past) but I think it will be good for her to spend time with the girls. When my nieces and nephews were growing up they adored my mom and my sisters always said that while she didn't do well in the mom department, she has always rocked in the Grandma department, so I think this will be fun for my kids (and good practice watching my triggers for me!)

On to my first OFFICIAL (was really backsliding all these months before and not as serious about DB) day of becoming the spouse only a FOOL would walk alway from. Yeah!

[Ahoy]

Hang in there, Bridge! It's going to be a long, wild ride.

First of all, you are loveable. Don't let your H's behavior shake your sense of self worth (I struggle with this too, even though I know better).

Things will be easier with him out of the house, as you noted.

Be prepared for the fact that there is probably another woman in the picture. I was in denial about this for a long time. It took me four months to discover the truth.

However, keep in mind that IT DOESN'T MATTER. An affair is just a symptom of a MLC, and your H is at the right age for that. (Although truthfully both younger and older people also find themselves in MLC.)

Be prepared to hear crazy nonsense in MC. He will try to vilify you to justify his actions. Don't believe anything he says. (If you haven't read sandi's rules, now is the time to read them and commit them to memory.)

Good luck on your commitment to being a wife only a fool would leave, and try to find self-worth without your H's validation.

You will be okay either way.

[Bridge]

Thanks Ahoy. Yours is another story I've been following. I appreciate you stopping by. You always have good advice to give. I read Sandi's rules before but maybe it's time to re-read them.

Thanks again.

[Bridge]

Sitting in my favorite little neighborhood diner about to have eggs and pancakes. I'm trying to get into shape and become the spouse only a fool would walk away from, but for now, after the rough day yesterday, I'm treating myself. Girls are at my MIL's. H went to pick them up and tonight I'm taking them (solo) to a Day of the Dead celebration at a friend's house. There will be tons of kids there (all of my friends and I had our kids around the same time) and the couple having the party have the most loving, positive relationship and regularly acknowledge to each other how difficult this period when the kids are so small are. Obviously, as my friend confides in me, they also get on each other's nerves, and her H has his jerky moments, but no one is perfect and he's not choosing to walk out on his family thinking that will magically solve everything.

So my 180 this morning was that I normally get up and make coffee for myself and H. I'm crazy about my coffee, always want it made a certain way and it always comes out great, so coffee is sort of my "job" in the house. Instead of making coffee and sitting around the living room while my H slept on the couch (Remember, I annoy him as he's told me, so it's best not to be anywhere near him, especially lounging around the living room) I took a shower, put on makeup, a semi-decent outfit, said I had things to do and headed out the door. So what if the only "thing" I really feel like doing right now is going to a diner and piddling around on my laptop.

[25yearsmlc]

I know I'm not supposed to have more than one thread, but I accidentally posted in Midlife Crisis first, and I would prefer to have my posts in newcomers.

Fair enough but make sure you now stick to one thread b/c it's much easier for us to help you if we have the details and events straight. Okay?

First, I just want to say I have been following all of your stories for months now and have been so inspired by so many of you—Maybell, Claire, TO, 25yars, Lisa, Card, and so many more I know I''m forgetting. The courage you all having shown is amazing and has given me strength so many times.

Thanks. This will be very hard to do, and stick with, but others including me have. And you know what's harder? SOMETIMES divorce....

For the past several months, starting in February of this year, my husband has been saying he's done. Then we go back to our lives, I try to be a good wife and mom and ignore what he's said,

why do you "ignore" it? I mean, are you working on changing ANY of the things he is not happy with? KNOW THIS:

No one returns to a marriage they left, UNLESS

they believe the marriage can be different/better than before.

It's your job to demonstrate (actions not words) that it can be and that all begins with you. What are YOU DOING differently to show that you are changing?


and two or three weeks later, it comes up again, usually when I (thinking everything is normal again)

because in reality nothing has changed. He thinks he's giving you a chance and you keep blowing it. In HIS eyes, he has "tried" many times, b/c he's told you how unhappy he is but you keep doing the same things over and over.

Is there ANY truth to this^^?


ask if he wants to do something as a family. Last week it was a trip to the pumpkin patch. The pumpkin patch! He dislikes me so much he can't even handle going to a pumpkin patch with me and my two daughters. Because he doesn't want to do things as a family,

Start doing things with your d's and NOT him. I mean, this isn't complicated. You are reminding him that you want to keep things as they are, which means his unmet needs go on, unmet...

he often takes my girls out without me, under the guise of "giving me a break" when really he just doesn't want me to come, which is fine.


It does not sound fine. It sounds as if you are very dependent on him and the appearance of family unity, which is sorely lacking at the moment. I suggest when he has the girls, you GAL like a maniac.

I've struggled so much with depression in the first half of our marriage and had a breakdown Christmas weekend that made him "done" so I guess I'm unloveable at the moment.

well, he probably does not feel as if he as a wife and 2 kids, so much as an adult child and then 2 small ones. I don't say that to hurt you! I say that b/c most spouses and especially men, are turned off by a depressed person.

To be fair, , who enjoys being around someone who sees things negatively or is dragging them down too? NO OFFENSE - but you must get the depression treated asap, and thoroughly. It's a big deal. It's very hard to be around someone who is miserable b/c chances are, the happiness we might be feeling somehow is something we are to "hide" b/c it so contrasts with the miserable persons attitude.

The great news is that depression is so treatable, all one has to do is commit to the treatment. Are you committed to it? Do you believe you are responsible for making yourself happy or is it someone else's job?

Do you now see how much of a burden it can be, and how unfair it is to fob off the responsibility for our own happiness onto our spouse?


It hurts so much when he takes the kids without me. It absolutely breaks my heart.

You need to put aside the ego (not easy, I know) and focus on making yourself happy. It will help you and the situation, and your daughters, immensely.


Today was awful because I thought he was going to be at work and
I planned a really nice Halloween with my girls and he stayed home and just sort of took over, meaning I wasn't going to get to take them trick or treating because that would be doing something as a family and he can't have that!

Did you ever TELL HIM what you were planning? Did you two discuss it? What were you expecting to have happen?



He took me into our bedroom today and asked when I was going to accept that he's done so he can move out. He said he know's he's been torturing me for six months and doesn't want to do that.

What did you SAY to that? Is the reason he has not left yet, b/c he's worried you will lose it? WHY did you have a "breakdown" over Christmas? What have you done to get treatment?

I cried so much while he and the kids were out trick or treating and then I'm very sorry to say my girls saw me still crying when they returned. I'm the worst mom ever for letting them see that. I know I need to be strong for them and let go, and that's what I've decided to do. Here's my plan of action:

• I am allowing H to have what he wants. We talked last night after I finally calmed down and I tried to listen and validate as much as possible. We ended the conversation with me politely agreeing it would be best if we separated for now and he stayed at his mom's.

Okay...but so you know, the State's grant divorces, not spouses. As a lawyer, I'm loathe but compelled to have to mention that. But there are still some spouses who will tell me that they "refuse to GIVE" a divorce to their WAS,

and that's when I have to tell them it does not work that way anymore and hasn't for decades....all the LBS can do legally, is slow it down and that's not even a sure thing in many states.


• With him not in the house I'll be able to be more emotionally stable and show him my "best self." It's been complete torture having him here and making it clear he doesn't love me. That is not good for my kids.

No it's not, or good for you. I think the decrease in tension in the home is a good thing and you are right to say that your changes will be easier to make without him there. Also easier for him to notice with a bit of time apart...

• Staying at his mom's might give him a taste of what a divorce would actually be like, and to be honest, financially, this is not something we can afford at this time.

Try to contrast the life he is creating there, with a WARM LOVING UPBEAT home life he could have with you. In HIS eyes, staying at his mom's is NOT how he expects his life to go as a single man.

He'll pay you child support, but alimony is not likely so in his eyes, either he can go for custody or half custody (and maybe not pay any child support---see a lawyer for your state's laws---) and be "fine" on his own. Again, contrast what he is creating for now, with what could be, at home....

Try Not to take the "i won't change but I sure hope HE does, and wakes up and comes home"....b/c for HIM to leave his daughters AND you, means his needs have gone unmet for a long time.

If you have not been intimate much, for instance, in HIS memory of the marriage, he got to feel the pain of rejection every night he lay next to you and you weren't intimate...and in HIS recall, he is the victim, not you at all.

You need to have empathy for his point of view as best you can.



I do believe once he crunches the numbers and considers getting his own place, (His mom will not let him stay there forever. She's totally against his decision and wants him to work on the marriage. Go MIL!) he'll see it's just not feasible. We really don't have money in the budget for a second home. This is good, because I don't think he understands the financial ramifications of divorce.

Maybe...but chances are he has thought about this/planned more than you realize OR he's very desperate.


• I've agreed to letting him come and be with the kids two days during the week and Saturdays at his mom's.

You do realize he could get a court order for visitation a lot like that? I guess the words "I've agreed to letting him..." and your earlier comment about "allowing him" what he wants, are a bit of a turn off for me.

He's entitled by law to what he wants and he is their father.
Since HE may have the same reaction to your wording that I am, be careful how you say this around him, okay?


• We do have an appointment for a MC I found on the directory of pro-marriage therapists. I made it last week and the appointment is in two weeks. I asked him if he wants to keep it and said it's up to him and that even if we get divorced we probably should see someone. He said we probably should so we don't have to reschedule if we change our minds.

Have ZERO expectations of the session and listen A LOT. Consider yourself to be on a "recon mission" to gather intel. You need to hear what he says he needs from you (or some OW) to help him see that his needs CAN be met INSIDE the marriage.

I would Not mention your pain or anger or sadness. He already sees you as chronically sad and needy and as a victim. The thing is, those are not attractive traits. Do you get that?


• I'm going to be spending this time enjoying my two awesome daughters without the anxiety of him coming home and me worrying what he's thinking or him deciding to cut me out of a fun activity because he doesn't want to be a family with me. I think the mood in the house will actually change when he's gone.


YOU can make sure it changes by setting an upbeat, optimistic mood.

• Read and re-read DR, not just with the hope of restoring my marriage, but restoring myself. And if I do restore my marriage, my husband will have to make changes too, because right now, he is not behaving like the man I married (compassionate, forgiving, unconditionally loving).

I would keep the focus only on YOU for now. Don't even go there, b/c it sounds a whole lot like you have a scorecard in the marriage, which does NOT help anyone.

Besides, HE has his own scorecard and on his, you are NOT ahead.

This whole thing is so awful, but writing everything out in bullet points is helping me think more clearly. I will get through this, I pray, with my marriage in tact. I did make a fool of myself yesterday though. Wish I could take all that crying back. I'm just so scared.

Try to realize it does take courage, and all of us were afraid. I learned eventually that when I operated in fear, I was not operating in faith.

As I worked on my own issues, I came to see that I had played a bigger role in things than I had cared to see before.

When I released my h to his task and stopped challenging his choices, I also stopped forcing him to defend his choices.

I became a happier more active person, and not nearly as much of a spectator. In TIME I realized I would and could be happy, with or without my h.

When you get there, to that "no matter what I WILL be happy" place, it will radiate from within. And that's darn appealing.

Set some small short term goals like, "H can be in the house OR around me, for 10 minutes and I will NOT lose it"...

to soon having this as a goal "H will NOT get annoyed with me", etc.

What are your 180s and GAL? They are KEY to DBing.

Good luck, and stay the course.

[Bridge]

H is out of town for work this week. I had him leave on Friday after he asked me when I was going to accept that it's over. He's been making awful comments like that (this one was probably one of the worst) for months, and I couldn't stand it anymore. I told him I didn't think we even stood a chance of working on our relationship in the same house. He's been constantly trying to shut me out from family activities and on this particular day he was dropping hints that he wanted to take the kids trick-or-treating...without me.

Saturday night I took the girls to a friend's house for a Day of the Dead party. It was fun—tons of kids, good food, music and conversation. At the end of the night though I was sad when my friend's husband saw me struggling to get out the door with both kids and the diaper bag, etc. He picked up my 4-year-old and put her in the car seat while I put the baby in hers. I was grateful for the help, but I was also thinking, Where is H? This is his job. These used to be his friends too. He used to come to these things with me.

I felt a little better driving home and listening to the radio, then sad again when I walked into an empty house and realized there wasn't anyone who could help me get two sleeping kids inside. It was all me. This is probably why after the kids were in bed I made the mistake of calling H who said he was really busy with work. I also made the mistake of telling him how much I missed him and how I felt when I needed help from someone else's husband to get the kids in the car—2x4s, please I know he doesn't want to hear that right now and he certainly doesn't want to hear any criticisms. He lost his temper and ended up yelling at me and barely saying "bye" before hanging up. I sat there crying when the phone rang and it was H calling back to apologize for losing his temper and to say he just was in the middle of doing a ton of work he needed to finish and prepare for his trip. I told him I completely understood and thanked him for calling back. The next day he came over to be with the girls while I went off for a GAL activity. When I came home, he was leaving, dragging some luggage out the door for his trip. He called the next day on his way to the airport and seemed uncomfortable when I answered the phone. He said he was thinking about work when he left in such a hurry the night before and asked how the kids were and if he could talk to our oldest.

I feel like the key is staying detached right now and seeing if he starts coming my way, since I've been doing all the wrong things the past several months.

Thank you 25yrs. You're right. When I said I "ignored" my H's IDTILY bomb drop, what I meant was that although I began making positive changes and took responsibility for the role I played in where our marriage was, I didn't ask H to move out (until now) or further the discussions about separation/divorce. But it was clear he wasn't trying—at least while living here and simply "ignoring" his feelings about wanting a divorce wasn't working.

I also liked what 25yrs said about operating in fear instead of faith. I need to write that down somewhere and keep it as a reminder...

Having a very tough week overall. My mom came to help with the kids and I've come to realize that having her come for a visit right after H leaving was probably not the best idea. We totally have issues and to think those would magically go away during this visit was very short-sighted of me. I feel like she almost seems more intent on pushing my buttons with everything that's going on in my marriage—almost enjoying it at times. The good thing is this visit is great practice for working on boundaries (my mom has none) and keeping my mouth shut more—something I desperately need to do with my H if we have any hope of reconciling.

[Maybell]

Hi, Bridge, I'm sorry you're here, but you're in the right place. You sound a lot like I did when I first got here.

Have you gotten any treatment for the depression? I recommend it. It doesn't have to be a big deal, and it doesn't have to be forever, but it will make everything else you're trying to do a lot, lot easier.

I agree with everything 25 said. As always. but I think you need to revise your list to focus more on yourself. And the single most important thing to put on your list is to think of yourself as A WOMAN WHO IS ABLE.

I'm a SAHM of three kids. When my oldest was 4, middle one 18 months, and four months pregnant with #3, we moved cross country, 2800 miles away from the nearest family member. Three days after the boxes arrived my H left for a weeklong cross country business trip. Having accidentally disconnected the phone without knowing it. We lived on top of a mountain with cell service so spotty that in order to get any reception I had to sit on one specific corner of the kitchen counter.

Good times.

Things did not greatly improve from there. But with no help, and no money to hire any, I had to get creative about how I was going to cope by myself with all those tiny children. Once I got my head around the fact that that was my life it was amazing what all I could do.

Eighteen months later he left for a trip to India for three weeks. Me, three kids ages 6, 3, and 1. During that time my middle child also had multiple hearing tests, speech interventions, and surgery for tubes in his ear. Selling Girl Scout cookies, having play dates (all the littles trailing behind me like ducklings), doing school bake sales and birthday parties and who knows what all. Just me and the three little ones. No problem, except missing my H. But I could handle it all.

There is nothing special about me, except that I decided to get my head around reality and to play my hand the best I could. I planned for how to manage and I didn't sweat the small stuff.

You can do this too. That's project number one. Become a woman who knows she can. You don't need your husband to enjoy life with your daughters (but it's ok to gracefully accept help when you need it.) you've got this.

And keep posting. The community here will help more than you can believe.