still holding on - 4

[PeterV2]

Well she admitted she introduced a third person into the marriage and she's sorry.
First of all you have you forgive her and tell that you do.

You can also admit that you were a bad husband but you need to back that up with examples and then follow that with an apology for your role in the decline of the R. You need to face those faults and change them. In your changes you must be consistent and constant. She will see those changes but will say too little too late, or I don't believe they will last. "If I come back to you, you will just go back to the way you were." That's the script. I hear it every other day. But once in a while she'll refer to the way I "used to be". So even though she's still spewing the script there are signs there's a shift happening in her perspective. And her perspective is everything. It's only been 11 months so it's still fairly fresh. Really. Check out MWD's youtube videos. Some of them are truly eye-opening.

And take care of yourself. Exercise 3 times a week. Eat well. Keep a PMA. Laugh with your kids. Go to a comedy show. I lost 30 lbs and I look great. My kids even commented that my gut was gone. I had a bit of a ponch a year ago. Now I'm ripped. 40 minutes of weights and 20 minutes of cardio 3 times a week. Takes discipline but after 5 months I started to notice a difference. Now other people are noticing. And I feel great.
Wear a nice cologne. I learned about Mount Blanc Legend from this site and I wear it regularly, especially when going to see my W. She has noticed. (Actually that's one of Sandi's rules). Stick with the program. Keep your spew jacket handy. And whistle while you work.

[u-turn]

Thanks Peter, it is like starting over again.

I've told her that I forgive her for things she has done, do you think I should again (and what about the idea that she may still be involved w/ OM)?

I'm still torn between forgiving her and trusting her(trust will have to come in time).
I don't know if I should indicate that I doubt her(I don't think that will help anything)?
I told her I just want a starting point, should I do it again?

Seems like this would be pressure for her again.

I know that I can forgive her for the things she has done, and I have told her that, and I have asked her to forgive me (I know she does not have to do that). She has seen in my life that I do not hold grudges with anyone. I know I have to file away all of the lies she has told me.

But

We've been through all of this before and I've done all of this before. I have acknowledged and listed and apologized for my roll in our decline. (should I do this again?) I know this is all about her perspective, but after this weekend, it really seems like we've gotten nowhere.

I do know, after being here for a while that she may be trying to justify her actions by bringing up my faults again. It's just a big circle.

(BTW - I know that I have written here that I can forgive and have forgiven. and I know there is a difference)

I actually visualized the spew jacket when she was telling me what a rotten person I am. (kept me calm through the conv.) - thanks for that too!!

I know I have not done everything right, but I am not a rotten person. I really think she believes that too, and I really think the same of her.

hoping for some direction

[PeterV2]

U-turn, if you've already told her you forgive her and said you want to start over, then I'd just let it rest. Constantly repeating yourself is pursuing. It will take time. Months. While you're waiting for the baby steps of change in her, keep up the changes in you and keep on improving yourself. Be a happy, fun-to-be-with, person. I know that's totally opposite to how you feel, but that's what the 180 is all about.

[u-turn]

I think things are still dissolving here - going in the opposite direction that I was hoping. She is pulling way back from me and I am letting her.

We have shared very few words this week, except for last night. She was telling me of her work day and during her story she stopped, her look changed, and she left the room. About 15 minutes later she came back, very angry, and said "I'm done" and I asked what she meant by that. She said "I can tell by the look on your face that I cannot talk to you about anything - I am done with this". I wasn't quite sure what she was talking about, so I asked her again what she meant by those words. She said that she isn't going to continue trying and is done with us.

I told her that she says this when she doesn't want to deal with problems - (I don't think I should have said this, but cannot unring that bell).

This is very out of the blue again, though she often uses those words (I'm done), when she gets frustrated and things don't go her way.

She slept in another room last night - this hasn't happened in a long time.

Time will tell what is happening.

[PeterV2]

U-turn, when she's telling you about her day what are you doing? Are you looking her in the eyes and listening to her intently, with the appropriate nodding and uh-huhs? Or are you thinking about other things, drifting or reading?

[u-turn]

when she's telling you about her day what are you doing? Are you looking her in the eyes and listening to her intently, with the appropriate nodding and uh-huhs?

Knowing that this is important and focusing on my 180s, I know to pay close attention when she is talking. So I am doing that and showing interest in what she's talking about. I ask questions about her stories so she can expand on things that she likes to talk about.

She says I am just patronizing her. She's like a mind reading ninja sometimes (something that I've always loved about her) - but she sees right through this validation.

She will only talk to me about work, and a little about the kids. I try not to push conversations into other areas, but sometimes I feel like she wants me to.

Yesterday she had to fire someone - and she hated doing it. I told her that I knew that was a hard thing to do - I think she liked this from me.

[PeterV2]

What you have to realize is that if listening that intently is a 180 for you, that means is a new skill that you're just learning to apply and as such it will seem a little forced to you and to her it will seem disingenuous, hence her saying that you're patronizing her. I've gotten that from my W when I've spoken validation statements to her.

This is to be expected. What I later said to my W was that I'm learning to be more emotionally present and empathetic and it's a new skill set for me that I feel will serve me well in my life, but please excuse me if it feels a little forced right now - it's something I'm just learning and soon enough it will feel more natural as I get into the habit of being empathetic. She didn't respond but took it in.

[sandi2]

Very well said, Peter.

[u-turn]

Thanks Peter - I'm not sure if explaining my changes will hold much weight - more so just remind her of my faults.

Other 180s I'm trying:

I need to dump my - if we are not working at it, we are not working at it attitude. Though I want a magic solution, I have to realize that just because we are not actively moving forward, at least by not adding pressure, we are not moving backwards - this is still hard for me (I think that I may have added pressure throughout our marriage to get results).

Looking at the calendar again and knowing that yet another month has gone by since everything blew up usually makes me pushy for a solution or direction. (this cycle needs to stop -and this is approaching a year).

I know this is nothing new here - I've been told to be patient, but may need to write it to do it.
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BTW - I am truly astounded by the amount of care there is here. I come here every day, usually just to read other's advice and pick up some wisdom or motivation from them. I am grateful for those that selflessly give their time and offer advice and motivating words to each other every day. THANK YOU

(I try to remember the things that I'm thankful for and let people know about it in November)

[PeterV2]

Yeah I agree. There's a lot of care here. I eternally grateful to all contributors, great and small.

It's coming up to a year since my W left the house. And she still not coming home yet. Takes the patience of Job. Every month I too want reconciliation. I drive away from my W's place with my head all filled with what I want to say - to tell her to give her head a shake, to tell her it's over, to tell her to come home, to ask her what is she scheming.

But then I ask myself: will what I say bring us closer together, or drive us apart.

Although I really want to speak my mind, I then realize that if I do it will just drive us apart and so I chose my words with love in my heart.

That's the choice I make. You may call me a doormat. But I don't care what you call me. I'm trying to save my marriage. And that's a noble cause. I do what I have to do even as she rewrites our history. I know she's struggling too but hides it beneath personal attacks (spewing). Every once in a while I see a glimmer of hope - she says something that tells me she still has hope to reconcile with me.

U-turn, I know it's a marathon and thank you for your continuing support - thank you everyone for all your support. I know it means a lot to all of us struggling here on this forum. We do learn a lot from each other - even as we slip up in our individual sitches. Hey, that's the nature of the beast. Pick ourselves up, brush off and carry on. Noble. Persistent. Hopeful.