Cliff notes for those joining. Got the BD, moved into a friend's basement. Began BDing. STBX partied hard over the summer having multiple flings, becoming an alcoholic (out of control black out drinking), and attempted suicide 6 weeks ago. Meanwhile she has yet to file and my IC told me she wouldn't as long as I let her avoid financial responsibilities (she was a SAHM and hasn't gotten a job yet). But he also said she if i waited i would be enabling her, that she wouldnt have to face reality, that i needed to take care of myself for me and my children, and that going on like this longer would just make me a rug and not do anything to make her respect or miss me. So I just told her I'm separating finances and will be bringing by separation papers tomorrow and movin into an apartment 12/1.
I've made many positive changes. I quit porn 4 months ago with one backslide about a month ago. I have been a much more involved father and am connecting with my kids in ways I couldn't before. I am learning to be more assertive about meetif my own needs, setting boundaries, and askin for what I want directly. I have let go of the rope in a way I didn't believe I could just a couple of months ago which has allowed me to find more peace and happiness than I was able to in a co-dependent relationship. And I am GAL, spending quality time with friends, family, and here on the boards.
For the first time I can see more clearly my road ahead. Over the next 60 days I will focus on doing well at the new job I've taken starting Monday. I will separate finances and cooperate with any process developments. I will move into and furnish my apartment. I will get through the holidays and my D's birthday which will involve a lot of time around my STBX.
In 2015 I will be into my routine at work, settled into my apartment, and have more time with the children as I can take them to my place and live with them for the weekend vs visiting them. I will continue on focusing on doing well at work, as a dad, and continuing to work on my personal growth. The goal will be to get to the point that I am confident I am healthy enough for a new R down the road. Still standing by my M and hoping its with STBX if she can follow this lead, but not basing my happiness on it. Finally, I can see a lot of enjoyment of my bachelor life in the sense of being able to do things I love. I am a serious competitor and look forward to playin pool tournaments, poker, and some chess. All while reading, working with my IC/DB coach, and staying close with my friends. While I hope to be in a healthy relationship again someday, I expect that I will remember 2015 as a great year. A year I had a lot of fun and turned into the man I've always wanted to be.
I'm not adding many new details in this post as the recap is already lengthy. But reading this over I am proud of how I've handled myself so far and how far I've come. I have longer to go but am doing well enough that i feel good most of the time and know i can get through anything. I realized today this is a dangerous spot in one way- the pain is now minimal enough I could go back to using defense mechanisms to distract me from it, repress, medicate, etc. So while its not good to dwell on feeling misrable, ill end this post by saying I am making a little time to sit with that pain, acknowledge it, and recommitting to goin the distance on my personal growth. Tonight I am feeling the loss and that's ok. I'm both happy and sad at the same time if that makes sense.
Thanks for the guidance, support, good will. What a team.
Last edited by Zues126; 10/30/1405:00 AM.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
My night with the kids. STBX went out, came home late after kids were in bed. We made small talk for a minute, then came the part when I had to have her sign the paper acknowledging I had served her the separation. She told me she wouldn't until Monday when she could have her attorney review it. I said that was fine, but I know I came across a bit impatient because I first replied it wasn't an agreement of any type, it was simply an acknowledgement.
We then proceeded to get into something that bordered on an argument or at the least an intense conversation. She brought up subjects of finances, parenting, future schedules, etc. It felt very confrontational to me and I was very firm in return.
She brought up how tough she was off financially having her cash flow reduced prior to the holidays before she started working again. I replied that I too was facing serious challenges due to providing 100% of my income through November to her, then making support payments in December on top of a new rent payment and furnishing a new place before I had my first paycheck to myself. She told me she was concerned about the kids being with me overnight during the week due to the disruption of their schedule. I replied that divorce disrupted their schedule, and that having their father in their life was a priority. We had a few other similar exchanges.
I really feel like I blew it. I left on a pleasant note and said while it was tough to talk about at least I believed we still had mutual goodwill. But walking out I was sure she didn't feel validated, understood, trusting, safe, etc. I remember thinking this conversation was the nail in the coffin of the D.
BUT- I did one thing right (I think). I RECORDED THE CONVERSATION!!! So- on my way home, I replayed it and listened closely to everything she said! Now that I wasn't on the defense, it sounded more reasonable. As soon as I got home I listed each point she made on a piece of paper, organized them, and sent her a reply.
I went from feeling like she would be more sure than ever she made the right choice, to thinking she might be surprised and moved by the fact that 1) I wiuld be mature enough to try to smooth the situation over, and 2) how well I actually heard her. I made each of her points nearly as well as she did if not better, then agreed to them. After all, they weren't black or white questions. So I have no reason to disagree. So now I wonder I she'll be moved by how much differently I'm handling this compared to during our M.
Ill copy the email below. This isn't easy, but whatever happens I know I am truly putting the work in.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
*****PLEASE READ THE ABOVE POST. THIS WAS THE VALIDATION EMAIL I SENT AFTER OUR HEATED CONVERSATION. IF YOU HAVE TIME READ THEM BOTH, IF NOT JUST READ THE ABOVE POST. THANK YOU!
That was obviously a difficult conversation for both of us. We have never had the best communication and conflict resolution skills, this is a heck of a situation to try to work on them. Children, finances, legal process. Could it get much scarier? Although I regret allowing myself to get as emotional as I did, I do see it as a sign that things are going better that I still feel mutual goodwill has been preserved.
It couldn't have felt that I was even hearing what you said, so I want to let you know the points I remember you making:
PARENTING. The children are doing better than they ever have. You are trying to come to terms with the shift from my relationship with the kids compared to before our physical separation. You have been supportive of my time with them, but also have concerns about the impacts to the children abrupt schedule changes could cause. You are open minded about how to work things out, but want to make sure you have a voice to express those concerns so no unnecessary pain is inflicted to them. And that as the near sole parental figure the role of looking out for them has always been on you, you have done well by it, and will always prioritize their best interest.
FINANCES. You need to know as quickly as possible what you can count on for support from me in December. It is before Christmas, before tax returns, and before the divorce is finalized which makes your situation very difficult. It may be impossible altogether to maintain the current lifestyle, and that is concerning because again you are responsible for he children. And that in this situation you are unprepared to sign anything from my attorney without having a chance to review with your own representative.
PERSONAL. You have found the strength to walk a very difficult road that is needed for all of our family'a best interest. You have come a long ways in your ability to set boundaries and handle conflict. The timing is difficult because you are already facing so much. Your aunt is day by day. Your mom and dad don't have the same resources as my family, and your mom is further hindered by upcoming surgeries on her neck. And so much of this is out of your control that you need to arm yourself with as much information as you can to salvage a livable plan out of a terrible situation.
If I left something out or misunderstood please let me know. I want to continue to do better as coparents than we did as a couple. Now that I've had a chance to paraphrase your words and look at them objectively I really agree with pretty much everything you're saying.
I will get you the information you need as quickly as possible (reminder to get me YTD cc statements to assist, thanks). I totally get waiting for a 3rd party to review anything at this point. I recognize your success with raising the children and will always be open to our feedback. If I need to make sacrifices for their best interest I will take a good look and really take that into account. I appreciate how supportive you have been with my increased involvement. And I am glad you are able to express yourself in ways you weren't able to before.
Finally, I am sorry about the additional strains life is placing on you. I will pray for your aunt and mother, for both our families to find compassion instead of judgment, and for you to have the strength to accept and find joy despite things not always turning out how we would hope.
Ps- please take pictures of the kids in their costumes. I think Halloween is XXXXX'S favorite holiday. She is SO excited to be a witch. And she said she was going to be casting spells. I asked good or bad, she said bad. So proud of my little girl
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Cliff notes for those joining. Got the BD, moved into a friend's basement. Began BDing. STBX partied hard over the summer having multiple flings, becoming an alcoholic (out of control black out drinking), and attempted suicide 6 weeks ago. Meanwhile she has yet to file and my IC told me she wouldn't as long as I let her avoid financial responsibilities (she was a SAHM and hasn't gotten a job yet). But he also said she if i waited i would be enabling her, that she wouldnt have to face reality, that i needed to take care of myself for me and my children, and that going on like this longer would just make me a rug and not do anything to make her respect or miss me. So I just told her I'm separating finances and will be bringing by separation papers tomorrow and movin into an apartment 12/1. This ^^ would have been so much better if you had not left out the chunks of your marriage problems that were related to your issues. The way this^^ reads is that she's a weak wacky loser, and you're lucky to be getting out of the marriage.
But I recall your earliest thread, and you played the biggest role in getting here. So the glossing over of problems and so little accountability (at least in how you are retelling it ^^here), concerns me.
In short, if you still can't fully disclose your role in all this, then how much change can you really claim to be making?
I've made many positive changes. I quit porn 4 months ago with one backslide about a month ago. I have been a much more involved father and am connecting with my kids in ways I couldn't before. I am learning to be more assertive about meetif my own needs, setting boundaries, and askin for what I want directly. I have let go of the rope in a way I didn't believe I could just a couple of months ago which has allowed me to find more peace and happiness than I was able to in a co-dependent relationship. And I am GAL, spending quality time with friends, family, and here on the boards.
For the first time I can see more clearly my road ahead. Over the next 60 days I will focus on doing well at the new job I've taken starting Monday. I will separate finances and cooperate with any process developments. I will move into and furnish my apartment. I will get through the holidays and my D's birthday which will involve a lot of time around my STBX.
In 2015 I will be into my routine at work, settled into my apartment, and have more time with the children as I can take them to my place and live with them for the weekend vs visiting them. I will continue on focusing on doing well at work, as a dad, and continuing to work on my personal growth. The goal will be to get to the point that I am confident I am healthy enough for a new R down the road. Still standing by my M and hoping its with STBX if she can follow this lead, but not basing my happiness on it. Finally, I can see a lot of enjoyment of my bachelor life in the sense of being able to do things I love. I am a serious competitor and look forward to playin pool tournaments, poker, and some chess. All while reading, working with my IC/DB coach, and staying close with my friends. While I hope to be in a healthy relationship again someday, I expect that I will remember 2015 as a great year. A year I had a lot of fun and turned into the man I've always wanted to be.
I'm not adding many new details in this post as the recap is already lengthy. But reading this over I am proud of how I've handled myself so far and how far I've come. I have longer to go but am doing well enough that i feel good most of the time and know i can get through anything. I realized today this is a dangerous spot in one way- the pain is now minimal enough I could go back to using defense mechanisms to distract me from it, repress, medicate, etc. So while its not good to dwell on feeling misrable, ill end this post by saying I am making a little time to sit with that pain, acknowledge it, and recommitting to goin the distance on my personal growth. Tonight I am feeling the loss and that's ok. I'm both happy and sad at the same time if that makes sense.
Thanks for the guidance, support, good will. What a team.
Yes it makes sense. I hope you can "hear" what I said in the spirit in which it was sent, and think about it.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Zues, I lifted this from Maybell's thread so as not to hijack, and I've gone back and forth on whether to address this or not, because I went back and read your first few posts about demanding sex and using porn. Clearly, that's an area you need to work on. However......
Originally Posted By: Zues126
I think most healthy women would find my prior expectations extremely unreasonable..
Don't assume that's true. I could have used a lot more over my M, especially in the last few years. H thought our sex life was one of the highlights, he even used it as a "pro" at MC while he was listing his "cons" and saying he wanted out. So, don't make assumptions about the general female population.
Originally Posted By: Zues126
Could I find a woman that had so many issues she would feed my desires in exchange for putting up with some other dysfunction? Yes, and I am tempted.
Resist this temptation at all costs. You know that. Don't settle.
Really, what I want to get across is that for most women it's not really about the how often. It's about being made to feel sexy, loved, and wanted outside the bedroom. It's being approached in a way that lets her know it's about *HER* and not just you. It's sharing your love in a really special way, not just meeting a need of yours. See the difference? That's why porn is an issue for most women. How can we feel loved and desired when you've just had a sexual experience with a computer screen?
You want a lot of sex? Make her feel desired all the time.
In his case however, it wasn't about "General" women. He KNEW his wife did not want to do some things that he wanted, but she felt she had to.
In short, he pushed his will and HIS fantasies and preferences, onto her.
I don't know any women who want to do, what they don't want to do.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
In his case however, it wasn't about "General" women. He KNEW his wife did not want to do some things that he wanted, but she felt she had to.
In short, he pushed his will and HIS fantasies and preferences, onto her.
I don't know any women who want to do, what they don't want to do.
Totally agree. I was really addressing his comments about "most healthy women" and what he found reasonable in a future partner. Assuming that partner wasn't his W. Sorry not to make that clear.
You're right 25, the write up was one sided. I was trying to recap post BD events, not pre-BD breakdown. There is no doubt I played a significant role in that.
Unhealthy sexual outlooks were a big issue. There were others, but if I had to do it over this is the one are I wonder if I'd still be unsuccessful. I may be a long ways from a finished product. i have been able to manage myself through emotions such as feeling extremely rejected, frustrated, etc, without letting that influence my behavior. For example, i will never pressure a woman to do anythin she doesnt want to again. That i can control and know wont be an issue. But I don't want to live a life where I constantly feel that way and am gritting my teeth day by day to try to force myself into the behavior of a healthy man. I want to just be that guy, have it be difficult at times but not unbearable and continuously overwhelming.
I know it is a long road and am trying to be patient. I had read that quitting porn can allow the brain to 'detox' and reduce some of the symptoms. Maybe that's happened. I have read a lot about it and have discussed with my IC and DB coach. Learned a lot, such as the fact that the pain isn't from unfulfilled fantasies, but from real appropriate needs (to be desireable, significant, respected) not being met, and I just think the fantasy is what I'm looking for. They say if I'm in a functional relationship where those base needs are being met I may find it easy to let to of some of these other things. It's possible that I'm better prepared than I think. Hard to know, because at this point the love bank in my R is so broken its hard to even imagine it working.
But I'm not a victim. I chose to view porn for many years. I chose to avoid addressing these issues during my R and expected my W to work around my problems. And in doing so I chose to treat her in a way that forced her to defend her boundaries in this monumental way, and to give her no reason to feel safe or trust in of me.
So I will keep taking steps and hope that at some point I grow enough I KNOW I am up to he challenge, and that I have the opportunity to put those outlooks and skills to use. Some days it feels possible. Others it does not. I am choosing to ignore the doubts because I can't accept what that would mean for my life.
Thanks for following you two.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
fair enough. I saw a very insightful video on TED Talks, by a guy titled something like "Why I Gave Up Porn", which you may find helpful.
Among other things, he mentions how there is no seduction or romance in Porn, mostly just the act of penetration. When he said that, I immediately realized why its such a turn off for me & my girlfriends.
There's more to it & I hope you'll watch it, as food for thought.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
