Mozza (2)

[Mozza]

Those are BIG issues and yet you seem to justify alot of your behavior and throw the blame back on your W rather than taking responsibility of your own actions and realizing that these are the consequences to those actions.

Then I gave you the wrong impression. I see the main reasons for my separation within the R. I beat myself up plenty for my behavior (perhaps not enough here) and agree that things needed to change for a healthy relationship, even when people around me disagree that it was that bad or that it was all my fault. I started counseling a couple of days after the separation talks started. These sessions are all about me and the roots of my behavior (he's Freudian...). I've ordered DR, I read The 5LL and I've NMMNG waiting. Because of this sense that I pushed her away, I'm accepting of her behavior towards me and with other people. I wish that our problems could have been fixed within the M, but to an extent, I made it possible (appealing?) for her to leave me when the stars aligned.

I also want to get a full picture of how I came to this point and it means exploring my W's side of things. This is why I discuss mental health, immaturity, patterns, etc. It doesn't mean that I forget about my responsibility when I do so.

[Mozza]

Of course, my W postponed today's lunch. I expected it when she wrote "Yeah, that should work". It's too bad because I'm in good place today. I slept more than usual (close to 7 hours) and I don't miss her as much as certain days. The day of anger and the day of detachment have a lasting impact. It should now be tomorrow and hope that I'll feel as good.

I have no expectations for this lunch. It's just too early (6 weeks) after she left and she's still in the fog. Anyway, I'm not ready myself. I mostly want to get out alive without saying anything stupid. The next step, is to look good and be funny, confident. There are a few boundary-settings discussions that I want to have.

1. No more stroller in the backyard. She drops it my backyard every day because I live close to the daycare. But it stresses me out that she comes by. There's a stroller parking at the daycare and I'll ask her to drop it there. I'll tell her it's more convenient for her and that I'm uncomfortable with the current arrangement anyway.

2. Monday dinner with kids. I want to take the kids for dinner during her week with them. I've received advice that 7 days in a row is a long time for D3 especially. W said yes for the first two weeks, then said no this week: "It's my week and the kids are happy." I think I'll have to convince her of my good intentions.

3. Godmother. I'll refuse to change D6's godmother to her bad friend, Anna. Their relationship is too tumultuous and I'm not ready to undo decisions we've taken together. It's no more unfair that both godparents are on my side now than it was at the time. I expect a blowup on this, but it's my boundary. I'd feel like a wimp to give in to such a silly idea.

On the appearance front, I'll be wearing a completely new outfit and I've unearthed the cologne she gave me years ago and that I had stopped wearing. It smells fantastic.

[MrBond]

"It's just too early (6 weeks) after she left and she's still in the fog."

See, you rely so much on this being your W's fog. She had legitimate reasons to leave you. But you still think it's all because of her "fog".

"There are a few boundary-settings discussions that I want to have."

Like what? Think about it this way. You mistreated her through your anger and put downs. Do you really think she cares about YOUR boundaries? That's all you've been doing is thinking of yourself and how YOU can benefit. She has to see a way that SHE can benefit.

"I think I'll have to convince her of my good intentions."

You don't have to "convince" her of anything. That's more control on your part. Keep showing her that you're a changed person and REALLY change. Right now your attitude is not showing that.

You think that I'm misinterpreting things, etc. but I've been on here long enough to see PLENTY of posters like you. You have a while before your changes become permanent.

[Mozza]

I forgot one topic for tomorrow.

4. I will prepare a suitcase with all her stuff remaining in the apartment. There's no reason to store it here, as if it's her parents' home or some sort of storage (cake-eating). Also, this should be the end of asking me to send her random stuff every week. It's heart-wrenching and it prevents me from feeling home in my own apartment.

My general message, and I might verbalize it to her if need be, is that she's no longer alone in charge of the separation. I'm separating too. I don't want it, but I need to take care of myself. Having her stuff at home, her daily visits for the stroller, her set the rules alone without explanation, etc. it just doesn't work. I'm afraid of the confrontation, but I'm detached enough (today) that I wouldn't mind a bit of it if it helps me set boundaries. I'll try to show her that it's not against her, it's for me.

[Mozza]

You think that I'm misinterpreting things, etc. but I've been on here long enough to see PLENTY of posters like you. You have a while before your changes become permanent.

I much appreciate that a vet take interest in my sitch, but it still seems an unfair assessment of my mindset. I said I'm not ready to take my wife back because I'm not done with the changes. I speak to her with my actions only. I've exhibited none of the bad behavior since we separated. I set boundaries because I need to protect myself -- none of them are mean to her or meant to control her. I fail to see a single way in which I've tried to control her since we separated. I don't ask questions about OM, her whereabouts, her intentions, etc. I don't promise, I don't ask, I don't plead. From day 1 with my C, the question has been "Why did I have this behavior that pushed away the woman I love?" I'm here and I read multiple self-improvement books. I freely share incriminating evidence. I resist when I'm told the separation is not my fault. In person, I'm often told to stop blaming myself so much -- perhaps it isn't reflected in what I share here.

I want to learn and take the right steps, but it simply doesn't seem factually correct that I have a bad attitude, try to control her, refuse to change for real, etc. This separation is not my doing alone and I explore how the mix of our personalities has lead to this sad point. This being said, I appreciate you making me reflect deeper on my share of the responsibilities as I want this whole ordeal to change me for the best.

By the way, I'd be happy to know what others think. Am I in denial? Do I have a bad attitude? Do I deny my responsibility in her departure?

[zed]

Mozza I could not tell you what you are, except. I believe there are so many of us that feel the same way. I think we are all really confused and just want the answer's. If we can learn from our mistakes does it make us a better person. Tough to say. I believe so. If it does and WAS does not come back, are YOU still a better person. I think you continue learning. Try your best. There should be no regrets as long as you try. Maybe 1 day you will look back and ask yourself. Did I do the best I knew how to at the time? And all you will be able to say is YES. Even if things don't work out.

[sandi2]

Mozza, you do understand that boundaries are not intended to control or to punish, right? Boundaries are to protect you. The action is to be from "you" if the boundary is not honored.

1. No more stroller in the backyard. She drops it my backyard every day because I live close to the daycare. But it stresses me out that she comes by. There's a stroller parking at the daycare and I'll ask her to drop it there. I'll tell her it's more convenient for her and that I'm uncomfortable with the current arrangement anyway.

How is this a "boundary"? It irritates you, just like her messiness irritated you. You want to control her. I don't understand the whole stroller thing. Is she bringing your child back home in the stroller? If so, what's the big deal with her leaving it there? Have you tried to discuss it with her? It sounds a little overbearing to me, but I realize I don't have the whole picture.

2. Monday dinner with kids. I want to take the kids for dinner during her week with them. I've received advice that 7 days in a row is a long time for D3 especially. W said yes for the first two weeks, then said no this week: "It's my week and the kids are happy." I think I'll have to convince her of my good intentions.

So, what if she decides she doesn't want to follow your rules? Then what? What do you mean about your good intentions?

3. Godmother. I'll refuse to change D6's godmother to her bad friend, Anna. Their relationship is too tumultuous and I'm not ready to undo decisions we've taken together. It's no more unfair that both godparents are on my side now than it was at the time. I expect a blowup on this, but it's my boundary. I'd feel like a wimp to give in to such a silly idea.

Are you saying both godparents are on "your side" and she wants to choose ....one person of her choice? It may not be a silly idea to her, if she is considering a life apart you and your family. It sounds as if this is another area you want to use power over her. You are right about it not being any more unfair now as it was then. Maybe she didn't want it set up that way back then? Whatever......I know it is a very serious business and you want to choose the best people as godparents, but each of you should have a voice about it, yes?

[sandi2]

Our posts seem to have crossed, but to clarify, I am not saying you are in denial or have a bad attitude or anything like that. My point was to try and help you distinguish between personal boundaries and punitive control over another person.

When we are suffering from so much pain, it is often difficult to clearly get a true concept of something new we are learning. Our emotions can cloud our abilities. Please don't take this the wrong way, I am not suggesting you are not intelligent. Intelligence is not the problem, the emotions are the problem. The pain gets in the way of making the best decisions.

I'm sure I probably come across the wrong way in a lot of my posts, too. But rest assured, we are here to give support and help one another learn.

[jim0987]

Hi mozza. I don't know how you're doing in your changes but what I will say is that I thought I was making changes then someone says something that makes me realise how far I still have to go.

Every journey starts with a first step and you've taken your first few but there are a lot more ahead of you (of all of us)

[Mozza]

Mozza, you do understand that boundaries are not intended to control or to punish, right? Boundaries are to protect you. The action is to be from "you" if the boundary is not honored.

I hope I get them right. Let's see once I explain further.

1. No more stroller in the backyard. She drops it my backyard every day because I live close to the daycare. But it stresses me out that she comes by. There's a stroller parking at the daycare and I'll ask her to drop it there. I'll tell her it's more convenient for her and that I'm uncomfortable with the current arrangement anyway.

How is this a "boundary"? It irritates you, just like her messiness irritated you. You want to control her. I don't understand the whole stroller thing. Is she bringing your child back home in the stroller? If so, what's the big deal with her leaving it there? Have you tried to discuss it with her? It sounds a little overbearing to me, but I realize I don't have the whole picture.

Yes, I need to clarify. She moved a few hundred yards from our apartment. During her week with the kids, she drops off D3 at a day care very close to our/my apartment. She stops by my apartment and drops the stroller in our small backyard (like rowhouses), giving her a view of the kitchen and my office and anything going on at my place, twice a day. I also see her if I'm in the kitchen or the office, which is most of the time. Seeing her stresses me out because I'm so emotional about the S. I become stressed an hour before she's supposed to come (and to a lesser degree, all day). At that time of day, I try to avoid being in a place where she'll see me or I see her. I feel uncomfortable at my own place during the week where I'm supposed to be "free".

I initially agreed to this for her own convenience, I was saying yes to everything she wanted and not knowing what impact it would have on me, nor that there was a place at the daycare for strollers. So I'm not irritated and I don't find it sloppy. She leaves D6's scooter at my place for the entire week I have the kids and I'm fine with it.

2. Monday dinner with kids. I want to take the kids for dinner during her week with them. I've received advice that 7 days in a row is a long time for D3 especially. W said yes for the first two weeks, then said no this week: "It's my week and the kids are happy." I think I'll have to convince her of my good intentions.

So, what if she decides she doesn't want to follow your rules? Then what? What do you mean about your good intentions?

It seems like a normal negotiations about sharing the kids: she wants 7 days in a row, I want a dinner break in between based on the professional advice I got about D3's well-being (apparently parents with such small children often have a 3-4-4-3 days arrangement). When I asked for Monday dinner, she just said no. Does it mean I have to accept it? That if I want a different arrangement, I'm controlling? (this is an honest question) She can have her own Monday dinner with the kids during my week if she wants to (she never asked and I never suggested because she rejects the smallest things I propose).

3. Godmother. I'll refuse to change D6's godmother to her bad friend, Anna. Their relationship is too tumultuous and I'm not ready to undo decisions we've taken together. It's no more unfair that both godparents are on my side now than it was at the time. I expect a blowup on this, but it's my boundary. I'd feel like a wimp to give in to such a silly idea.

Are you saying both godparents are on "your side" and she wants to choose ....one person of her choice? It may not be a silly idea to her, if she is considering a life apart you and your family. It sounds as if this is another area you want to use power over her. You are right about it not being any more unfair now as it was then. Maybe she didn't want it set up that way back then? Whatever......I know it is a very serious business and you want to choose the best people as godparents, but each of you should have a voice about it, yes?

She wants to take away the title of godmother from the woman we chose together some six years ago. It was very much a joint choice, like everything important in our life (career, city, apartment, kids, names, etc.) I agree that we should each have a voice about it and my voice is "no" for this person. First, my W has an on-and-off relationship with her (serious fall-outs, inappropriate behavior, years without talking) and this closeness seems to be a fad, based on what it's been before. Second, the reasons my W gives me for the friend to be a godmother (she doesn't care about anyone, she does her own thing) don't seem very reasonable. The current godmother is doing a PhD and is a mother of three -- a perfectly good role model and one that we chose together after giving it much thought. Third, I believe this friend has played a detrimental role in my separation and I refuse to have her as the godmother of my child. It seems like when we chose the godmother, all these arguments were fair game and that's how we chose the one D6 has.

I hope I've clarified. I greatly appreciate the guidance.