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Okabe Offline OP
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Pros: I am getting out and doing a little of stuff.
Cons: 95% of the times I offer to do something with her, she declines.

Not really sure if I am doing the right things or not or if I should change course on a few of them...
Is hugging and kissing a bad thing if it is received and kind of reciprocated? Should I make it less frequent or more random?
Should I not offer to do thing with her and just go and do thing on my own?
Feeling really confused now.


M-44
W-44
Sons- 11&14
Married- 18
Together- 27
Separation mentioned- 9-29-14
Still together, but not "together"
"if you feel rotten and forgotten,
remember there'll be better days."
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 155
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Okabe Offline OP
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I re-read "Sandi's 37 rules" and realized that perhaps I am trying to hard to connect with her when that may be pushing her away. It's hard for me to figure out. I know I am in a better place than most here in that the desire to separate has only been met with an "I don't know" and we are under the same roof, civil and mildly friendly.
This is what confuses me.
She said the problem was feeling lonely for too long with me there (although she has very few friend. she lost both a best friend and her mother in the last 3 years). So I react by inviting her to do thing with me and she declines.
She said I don't show enough affection. So I start to change this and it is met with discomfort.


M-44
W-44
Sons- 11&14
Married- 18
Together- 27
Separation mentioned- 9-29-14
Still together, but not "together"
"if you feel rotten and forgotten,
remember there'll be better days."
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 155
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Okabe Offline OP
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So am I pushing too much and back off of the changes that she was stating were the problem to begin with? Not sure how to handle that...


M-44
W-44
Sons- 11&14
Married- 18
Together- 27
Separation mentioned- 9-29-14
Still together, but not "together"
"if you feel rotten and forgotten,
remember there'll be better days."
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 155
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Okabe Offline OP
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I remain confused on what tact to take. While she has not committed what she intends to do either way.
She makes plans for the future like what our insurance is going to be next year on the one hand. On the other hand she doesn't reciprocate affection that is given or seem to like me much.
I don't know if I should back off and not intiatate things like hugs, etc or continue to do the thing she stated was part of the problem in the first place. So unsure about what direction to take.


M-44
W-44
Sons- 11&14
Married- 18
Together- 27
Separation mentioned- 9-29-14
Still together, but not "together"
"if you feel rotten and forgotten,
remember there'll be better days."
Joined: Oct 2014
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You should consider reading The 5 Love Languages. I'm going through it at the moment and I find it enlightening to understand how to connect with a spouse. It's possible that all those years you've been speaking a language that she doesn't understand. Perhaps you're a gift giver and she wants quality time. Perhaps you're a physical touch person and she wants to hear you say words of affirmation. Have a look at the summary at least and see if it could be of interest.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Okabe

Ok .. dude .. breathe.

She is still there, you said "she does'nt know" .... but if you smother her .. she will run. 180 this .. .no pursuing .. read and live those 37 rules, they are there for a reason as hard as it is to comprehend ... I have been here long enough and have yet to see 1 solid argument that attacks any of the 37 when we start out.

Detach, pull back, GAL ... start there ... you have a chance to really flip this around ... work on you. Being a Needy dude is not attractive ... I know .. I was that guy .. for YEARS

more reading .. No More Mr Nice Guy .. I have a feeling you could find some useful tips there

Pair that with 5 Love Languages, your LL may be physical touch .. but I am not picking up hers is ... hence why it feels one sided with you.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Okabe Offline OP
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Thank you both for the replies.

I don't mean to be difficult about this: If I detach and stop initiating affection (which she had stated was part of the problem, me not doing so) won't I just be proving her point that I cannot change? I have read about the 180, but was unsure if I suddenly stop how it will be taken.


M-44
W-44
Sons- 11&14
Married- 18
Together- 27
Separation mentioned- 9-29-14
Still together, but not "together"
"if you feel rotten and forgotten,
remember there'll be better days."
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,523
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Originally Posted By: Okabe
Thank you both for the replies.

I don't mean to be difficult about this: If I detach and stop initiating affection (which she had stated was part of the problem, me not doing so) won't I just be proving her point that I cannot change? I have read about the 180, but was unsure if I suddenly stop how it will be taken.


You left that nugget out ... we really need the information here. If that was an issue ... then now you are doing it all the sudden can you blame her for not giving it back .. probably feels forced all the sudden .. ya know?

You do need to detach and GAL .. list up the 180's ... read 5LL


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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I join in welcoming you to the board. You are not alone in your confusion about the mindset of a W who has let you know she isn't sure anymore.

Besides lack of affection, what are the other complaints she has made over the years?

Losing a mother and a best friend in a short span of time is traumatic for many women. My mom is my best friend and is quite elderly now, so I know it will be heartbreaking for me to lose her. Most women need someone they can connect to emotionally. If they suddenly lose that person, then they can feel very isolated.

Over time, if your MR was lacking in emotional connection, your W may have turned more and more to these two important women in her life. Their absences have magnified the emptiness she feels in the MR.

My perception of what you've told us is your W doesn't want to hurt your feelings and that may cause her to withhold telling you some things......or, she may not know how to describe to you how she feels b/c she doesn't really understand it herself.

I think you are correct about her simply tolerating your physical affection. She knows what she told you, but now....she can't feel the response she should. That causes her to be confused about her own feelings and desire. With all she's experiencing right now, she probably feels kind of dead on the inside, and that may scare her. It could lead her to doubt her love.

She needs to feel an emotional connection. I hope it will be with you, otherwise it leaves her vulnerable to someone else. Do you have any idea what her emotional needs are? Many men don't have a clue or know what that even means.

We can't tell everything in one or two posts, so be patient while you learn. Be patient with her, too. She is trying to find her way and must feel pretty lost right now.

I suggest you let her initiate the intimate hugs/kisses. You may try other non-sexual touches and see how she responds. If you feel she tenses up when you make any physical contact, then you need to stop for a while.

You will need to learn about detaching. It may sound really confusing at first. It takes some time to get it. It isn't what most newcomers originally think of detaching. (More about that later.)

Another confusing issue for you will be this: What she use to want from you in the MR may not be welcomed at this time. B/c the years of lacking whatever she needed/wanted has done something to her emotionally. It will take a lot of time for her to figure it out. You may feel like a blind man finding his way through the darkness before it's over, IDK.

You may be her target for all her unhappiness for quite some time. Accept the fact that you cannot fix her. You cannot control her or even rescue her. All you can do is become the best man possible. Improve what you know you need to change about yourself. Let this be a wake-up call and give it your best.

Have no expectations of her giving you anything for your hard work/changes/attempts. When you have expectations from her, you set yourself up for disappointment.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Okabe Offline OP
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Thank you both.

I probably do need to back off. I tend to be the person to want to fix things, accept fault, placate the situation in order to end conflict quickly. I am probably trying to "fix" things too hard and as CaliGuy said: it probably feels forced.

Other issues have been that she feels lonely even with me in the same room (that I zone out on the computer). The funny thing is I often felt the same thing, but like her didn't say anything. She is an online gamer and I sometimes would want to do things with her (or spend time) and felt shut out. It was like we both wanted the connection, but neither of us were addressing it as we should've.

The affection is tied to sexual intimacy. I would want intimacy and she would want affection and it would never match up. I thought if I just spoke about it it would change, but too often I just made her feel criticized (which was never my intention).

I know she has also been disappointed in me not making plans for camping trips (which she enjoys) unless our friends were involved. This is true, but not intentional. I think my friend just forced me to plan more, but I am sure she felt slighted by my inaction.

I know she feels isolated. She has her online gaming friends which she's played games with for years, but no one besides me for the most part. We did martial arts together for years, but that ended last fall after a bad shoulder injury for her, so that social outlet went away.

I know something was wrong for the past year and asked her many times if anything was wrong, but was always met with: "I'm fine".

She has told me she is tired and frustrated of the same issues and that over 2 decades if there was going to be a change there would have been, and she is just going to have to deal with that I will never change (which is kind of why I was trying so hard as well I suppose).
Sorry for the long response. It may be a little while before I can respond. I hope this sheds a little light on my situation.


M-44
W-44
Sons- 11&14
Married- 18
Together- 27
Separation mentioned- 9-29-14
Still together, but not "together"
"if you feel rotten and forgotten,
remember there'll be better days."
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