Can I just repeat my thanks for you keeping checking in on me. The advice is gratefully received.
Strangely I'm OK empathising with my kids. I was talking to my mate about the empathy thing and his description was 'you do have empathy, your just rubbish at processing feelings so you don't know what to do with it' I think with my kids its easier because I have absolute faith in the mutual love so I just go on instinct. So might need to think whether the 180 needs a slight adjustment.
Ive kind of realised that my job is to make myself the brightest lighthouse and forget about my wife. If I do she might come back but if she doesn't then my kids will see it and I will know it so its win win. If only it were that easy.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
I think it was on Tarheels thread, but there was something about how apologies were almost always to make US feel better, and usually only accomplished letting us feel it was dealt with. That in turn leads to future repeat issues.
Better approach which I like is to NOT apologize with words, but instead with actions. This forces you to ensure your next handful of interactions are positive. She's not going to think favorably of anything you have to say anyway. Just show her and don't talk about it.
There are exceptions of course, but I would stick to his strategy unless it was an absolute requirement.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Thanks Zeus. I decided not to apologise because actually I was doing her a favour and Ive spent far too long making her destruction of my family comfortable for her. Instead I texted and said I would be home late as I was going to the pub.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
No need to apologize any more or keep playing the "Nice Guy" card. As a woman, I can tell you that comes off as desperate and definitely NOT attractive.
Perhaps in the past you needed to show more empathy. Okay. But now your wife is bailing on her family and you don't need to empathize with that, or with how it might be affecting her. Now is the time to validate that you HEAR HER. Not that you agree with her or wish you could make her feel better.
You don't want her to feel better! Not about this. You want her to get up close and personal with the consequences of her choices. Not consequences from you, but from the world.
It's her decision and reality bites. Don't save her from it.
And--You're absolutely right.
You should not feel guilty for being honest and up front about things. Again. It's REALITY. You don't need to browbeat her with it, or even bring it up. But sometimes she's going to "feel bad" about the consequences of her actions.
GOOD! --------------------------------------------------------------- Now, on the other hand, you DO want her to feel better about you and the M.
And the way to do that is really be a man--not saying you're not, just that you should be channeling your own personal SuperHero or Manly Man of the Big Screen! The first one that comes to mind is Rhett Butler in "Gone With the Wind":
"Frankly, Scarlett... I don't give a damn."
Although in DBing fashion it would be more like: "Frankly, Scarlett, that's something you'll need to sort out for yourself. My horse is waiting; I have a banquet to attend..." And let her hang around making gowns out of the curtains while her house is burning down...
A man who handles things responsibly, yet in a caring manner, by having integrity and taking the high road. Not punishing or withholding, but by doing what's required calmly and rationally.
By making the decisions that are best for you and your family--not for her or your M, yes they're important, but for now THEY COME SECOND--and sticking to them.
By communicating to her with ACTIONS the integrity you have as a human being. By being strong and decisive for all the right reasons.
And meanwhile by making the changes in yourself to be an even better human. ---------------------------------------------------------------
So she's said you "never supported her"? So now you're supposed to "support her" in destroying your family? I think not!
You support yourself and your family. And you reinforce her positively when she behaves in a responsible and sane manner.
Ignoring her "bad behavior" as much as possible, except if it crosses into the "harmful for me/the family" territory. Then you take a stand with your actions. Actions definitely speak louder than words now. Don't waste your breath. It will probably be misinterpreted anyway. Accidentally or on purpose.
Don't expect her to explain herself to you. Likely anything she says is whooey anyway.
Didn't you read the part where it says: "BELIEVE NONE OF WHAT THEY SAY"?
Because they will say ANYTHING to justify their choices, to make it about YOU, and to twist you into a pretzel over it. Don't be a pretzel! --------------------------------------------------------------
Figure out the kind of person you want to be from here on out and then BE THAT GUY.
The honest guy who is committed to his family, who is kind but not a pushover, who knows that he can stand on his own two feet, who loves his wife but will not sacrifice himself in honor of the love you once shared.
Show your wife this man, consistently, and from here on out. That's your best shot at turning things around. It's not guaranteed of course, but the alternative is to not be the man you want to be.
And I WILL guarantee that many other women would appreciate such a man. (Whatisis's online dating adventures not withstanding. )
And "assertive" doesn't mean harsh or judgmental. Leave the judgement to the judges. You only need communicate your stance on how you will conduct yourself and let her sort it out.
I'm not a vet--yet!--but when I read about guys I think are taking a little too much of the burden off their WAWs, I get my hackles up.
I think the majority of you are way too nice. So yeah. Reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" is a great start.
BTW--"Nice Guys" are the best! But they've gotta have backbone, ya know?
---(G)GGG
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
Thanks GG. That seems like unbelievably good advice.
About 4 weeks in she had me convinced that it was 100% my fault. I unfortunately even agreed that with her and that if I love her I have to let her go.
I have a bunch more questions and a bit more of an update to give but that will wait until I've reread ^^^^ again
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
As always an awkward couple of days round W. Generally friendly and a few laughs round kids and then the moment they are in bed the shutters come down and its back to tense and frosty. No real interaction.
I had a romantic weekend in Paris planned as a surprise for our wedding anniversary next month (only our 3rd and actually are R has been rubbish since that day). Anyways decided I'm still going but taking a good mate - should be very silly.
Had a good day with the kids - its harder than before because generally I'm much more down making it harder. I now understand why my W struggled with them so much.
Using some of the communication stuff I've learned with D3 and her behaviour is noticeably improving (and it wasn't bad). S1 is just chaos, entertaining chaos, but chaos.
Bit stressed about Friday as I'm at home with kids (asleep) while my W is going out on the pull to find 'some meaningless sex'. Not a good feeling for me. But its fits with her 25 year old self.
I have the kids all weekend so I think we might make Christmas cake.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
Yes I'm a nice guy of the classic NMMNG description. That's something I need to take on and it stems from low self worth. Also something to take on.
My behaviour fit the classic description in the book and my lack of boundaries and self respect was a real issue. What was bugging me was why I was fine for 12 years (over 2 relationships) without it being an issue. That made me realise just how much my W emotionally closed off to me which is always going to make things harder. I got stuck in a 'just be patient and 'nice' and once we get through (1st child infant stage/FIL death/2nd child Infant stagd/GMIL death/massive work stress/Ws post pregancy body issues)it will sort itself out and we can worry about the things that bother me.
I've also always been rubbish at talking about emotion.
My W thinks I'm letting her go because I agree that its what's best (and she views it 100% my fault). I don't but not really sure if and how to correct this without it seeming needy.
I'm trying to deal with the divorce process in a matter of fact way. My W seems to be expecting some sort of backlash and is fearful of that.
Struggling with behaviour around her as my instinct is to be friendly and polite - but that means 'how was your day?' Questions. Dropping that just wouldn't be me and seems rude. Equally she when she goes out the polite thing to say is have a good time even though I absolutely don't support what she is doing. Not quite sure what to do there.
The man I want to be is Tony Stark rather than Rhett butler but that's a bit far removed from me. But I see your point very clearly. I'm still being nice because its an easier dynamic. The alternative feels like picking a fight or plain rude. Not traits I want to show. Same deal that she still lives here but has mostly given up on housework and I still pay 90% of the household bills.
So I suppose the things I'm really getting is that I need to be far more assertive, talk more clearly about my feelings when explaining anything and try and figure out this boundary issue.
I have also realised that she is pinning way too much responsibility for her happiness on me. She now claims differently but I never stopped her going out or meeting friends or phoning people. Yes I was sulky and sarcastic a lot of the time but that isn't the same thing.
So in some ways I'm back to where I've been for a few years and that is she is suffering from some sort of depression and that she needs to speak to an IC. Not that I can tell her this but I think it would be a condition of mine if reconciliation ever became a prospect.
Final question really is one that may seem odd but this all got much worse over the last few months as my W spent a lot (LOT) of time helping a new friend who was cheating on her husband with a married man. This has been going on for months if not longer and there chats were always about how amazing the affair is and how awful her husband is. Anyway they work together and message each other about 50 times a day. I was getting really anxious because W woukdnt talk to me but was constantly messaging friend and i didnt want to seem like i was getting in the way of her making friends for the first time since we moved here 5 years ago.
Does this seem odd to anyone else - it feels like they are feeding each others fog monster.
OK so that drifted into being mostly about my W.
When I made my marriage commitments I committed not to a faultless marriage but that I would see through all the rough patches and that I would do what I needed to do to make it work in the long term. I still stand by that because I want long term happiness and I deserve better than I got because I allowed that to happen.
I'm definitely still digesting the thoughts in GoatGals post.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
jim0987 - It does sound like you need to be more assertive and better at setting boundaries. You come up with excuses why it wouldn't be you or it would be rude or something. But what we're going through changes everything. We can't be like before and expect a different results. It's what got us where we are. Have you read NMMNG? It's still on my pile of next books, but I suspect you might get answers there as to how changing your behavior wouldn't be rude, but productive.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
