Thank you so much for the feedback. I agree that I came up short of stating a consequence. I'm unsure exactly what that consequence should be, although it's probably best to just start with politely ending the conversation if she violates the boundary again. W is smart. I could see the truth dart hitting her (I know when this happens because she gets this lost, listless look that absolutely breaks my heart). I know now what path to take in these conversations, and I feel great about that. As you can probably tell from my threads, I really struggle with owning my values/opinions with W and let her bowl me over. I feel more confident today, just having this one interaction with her (after reading that amazing coach thread) and knowing where to go from here.
The next step is addressing her comments about S6 telling his teacher. I need to express to her that I don't see him telling her as a bad thing (even though it apparently didnt happen), and that we should want to instill in our kids that they can confide in adults they trust. I don't want to silently agree with her idea that we keep the kids in the dark and trust that they will cover for us at school. This is not healthy.
Thoughts on how to broach that conversation?
M: 33 W: 33 M: 9 T: 10 3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5 BD: 8/3/14 Living together
If at all possible, try to avoid "telling" her anything about your consequences. Sometimes you can back yourself into a corner where you can't get out.
If you can let LIFE teach her by letting things happen naturally, you'll be better off.
I would suggest taking no action either way unless there really is a pressing issue. Listen, validate, and be the best parent you can be.
If she wants to know what transpired between S and teacher, let HER ask about it.
Set the stage for her to put on her BGPs and face reality.
If she has a question about something that happened with your son, you do not need to be the go-between, nor do you need to smooth things over between her and other family members/friends. You need to protect and support your children, but that doesn't have to include covering for her. She has to own that.
She needs to take responsibility for her own feelings and actions. The way to make that happen is for you to stop doing it.
You don't have to be rude about it; you can just say, "It might be easier if you just asked him what happened." There is no condemnation or judgement in that statement. It just is sensible parenting. She doesn't need you as an interpreter.
As for her not "wanting to feel like the bad guy". That's understandable! Wouldn't it be great if we could all just do whatever we pleased with no repercussions? I think for flying by the seat of your pants by saying "I understand that" was pretty darn good. Anything along those lines is good.
"Yes, I know it's a difficult situation/hard to know how to handle it sometimes/uncomfortable predicament/tough place to be right now..." and leave it at that.
You're not disagreeing that it s*cks to be the bad guy, but you're not rescuing her from her actions either. -------------------------------------------------------------
But IT'S NOT YOUR JOB to help her feel better about what she'd doing.
It's also not your job to help her feel worse. (That'll drive her away for sure.)
You're just sort of---neutral. You validate and move on.
As for boundaries, that's a bit harder.
You can't "make" her do anything. So they've got to be about what you will/will not tolerate for the health and well-being of yourself and your family. And what you do when she crosses one of them. No need to state the consequences. After a while it'll become apparent what will happen if she does x, y. z. You can, however, state your boundaries if the situation arises.
"I will not do x. y. z..."
I'm not sure you need to tell her that you think this or that, (like it's ok for son to tell his teacher.) Does she CARE whether or not YOU think it's good or bad? Most of the time, they're not caring a whole heck of a lot what we think or feel. Why burden them with that?
Cut to the chase and let your ACTIONS say it for you.
Yes, it would nice to agree on how this should be presented to the kids, but don't expect her to be on board with what you think "should" happen. Trying to have even a reasonable "agenda" can feel like pressure to her. (Certain exceptions apply, of course. Your kids come first. But make it about THEM, not about what you think or feel should be done.)
You can only control yourself, so if you feel it's reasonable that the kids should be able to express their emotions to trustworthy adults, you might just say: "I am not going to tell my children that they can't talk to trusted adults about what they're going through, or any problems they might have."
If this is your stance and is agreement with your values as a parent, you don't need her permission. It cuts both ways. You can talk to your kids and support them in their choices, without cutting her down. If they say "Well, mom said she doesn't want us doing x", you can ask them what THEY feel is the right thing to do for them. And then support their decision if it's a healthy one.
You don't need to say she's wrong, or anything else. You're the adult and you can steer the conversation to "I want you kids to always feel comfortable and safe, that's the most important thing."
Period. Don't make it about her. It's about the children.
You don't even need to imply that it's because of her actions. She knows that, and it also applies to ANYTHING the kids might be experiencing at any time that has nothing to do with your W and your M.
If they say something to her that she doesn't like and it gets back to you, you can simply reiterate to her: "I told them I supported them talking about how they feel to adults they trust." Which is TOTALLY FINE of you to do.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a parent, but I was a social worker for many years and worked closely with troubled families and extreme parenting situations. So I have some experience which is pretty objective.
I would love to hear more what other parents have to say on this.
Hang in there,
--(G)GGG
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
I understand completely about the actions vs statements thing. Its definitely an area I need to bring into much stronger focus, in all areas of my life.
Just to get specific about this particular situation: the issue is that we havent said a word to our kids about what is going on. Its clear that my W feels that her relative absence around the house has been explained/justified/vague/sneaky enough that the kids have no idea what is going on. I agree that this is the case. I also feel implicated in this "pact of silence" for two reasons: I havent said anything to them, and I give vague, comforting explanations when they ask where she is ("shes with a friend, shes doing school work"), and because I feel slightly guilty for when I do take my time out of the house for GAL activities.
So its not that she wants to specifically "tell" S6 not to talk to his teachers, or to intentionally mislead him about whats going on, its that she believes he has no reason to tell them anything, and no reason to feel insecure/worried/afraid right now by what she's doing.
My concern is that when she asks me "what would he have told his teacher?" the implication is that I am the one making an outlandish suggestion that our/her actions are alarming our kids. When she asked this, my reaction was to say "I dont know" and hem and haw, because the only alternative was to say "he would have told his teacher that his mommy isnt around some mornings, or some sundays, and he doesnt know where she is". Saying this to her feels way too confrontational, and I am also plainly afraid of sticking her with that dart.
Im just thinking out loud here. Its not that I feel an urgent need to address this with her, I've been maintaining just fine for months now. But how long can we keep our kids in this limbo?
M: 33 W: 33 M: 9 T: 10 3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5 BD: 8/3/14 Living together
Sometimes it's hard to know how/where to draw the line.
But it's not our responsibility to manage their uncomfortable feelings. Part of them learning and growing is for them to take responsibility for how they deal with life.
It's like the culture of "educate yourself so you never offend anyone unintentionally". Everyone *should* know that this and that is offensive...
That's all well and good, and I think it is important to be sensitive to people and their needs. Learning proper terminology and educating yourself on people who are not like ourselves.
Does that mean that we need to take the heat if we "offend" someone with a well-meant comment or action?
At some point, the "offense" lies with them. We can't expect the world to cater to us and to prevent our feelings from getting hurt. As adults it's our job to educate others on how we would like to be treated.
Having that little interaction with your W is interesting, and it sounds as though you injected a little reality there.
Her feelings are her business.
You just keep carrying on being true to your values, being civil, considerate, personable, and reliable. That's all you really need to do.
The degree of "friendliness" is something that seems to vary in every sitch. You want to be warm, but not over-involved, and don't rescue her from the natural consequences of her actions. If you don't feel like being friendly, don't be. But don't be her "friend" either. Like they say around here, "Be friendly like a neighbor." That's ALL she gets from you.
Let LIFE teach her what you cannot.
If you don't want to be around her, then don't be. Hold your head high and move forward. She has her own decisions to make.
Awww... Shucks. (Scuffing toe in the dirt and looking at the ground.)
T'weren't nuthin'...
Yeah. I can talk a good game. LIVING it is 100 times harder.
But you guys know that.
Still, I'm learning. I am a Work In Progress.
---Your Pal,
The Goal Gal
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
