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Card29 #2501172 10/27/14 07:12 PM
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Quote:
What I'm more interested in from people on this board is a grade of my DB skills in this convo.


My question about your conversation is....if she is wanting to date others, why are you reassuring her that dating is the last thing on your mind? I mean, that's the perfect setup for a WAW, having the freedom to date while the LBH waits around faithfully.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2501222 10/27/14 09:10 PM
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card,
i'm with you in regards to the LL. i didn't speak in my W language (words of affirmation) but mine (gifts). [censored] that we learn this stuff so late. we deserve the Grace from our spouses to learn from our mistakes! prayin for ya! don't give up hope. a miracle can still happen for you. be glad that you haven't got the papers yet. you can do it. you are in the business of fixing this and business can be good!


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

bravo61 #2501229 10/27/14 09:28 PM
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Hey Card and Zues, just wanted to chime in on the WAS openly dating. What fun for us! I am in the same situation. I will say one thing, although my WAH is openly dating he did say the grass is not greener. He admitted it! (not to me but to a mutual friend) I think it is hard to find someone to replace us, ESPECIALLY if we improve ourselves.

I also love what Sandi said above. But I struggle with how to work it.

LisaB #2501272 10/27/14 11:25 PM
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The point I want to make with all who are LBS is that when you have a spouse who has walked away from you.......they are not asking or wanting your assurance of faithfulness or unconditional love. Unless it was YOUR unfaithfulness that happens to be the issue......then why on earth make a to-do about it to her? In most cases, it is the WAS unfaithfulness that has become an issue.......not the LBS. (The majority of WAS's are wayward spouses.....and IMO, sets them apart from the stereo image of what most of us have about a WAS. Perhaps another subject at another time.). It has become an issue that the WAS no longer feels in love or sexually attracted..........not the LBS. You are trying to prove something to them that they don't want or no longer care about. The only sliver of caring is when they don't want to see you interested in somebody else. They don't want you.....but they don't want anyone else to have, either. So now you're going to assure them they have nothing to worry about? Or.....they want their freedom but have family time at their convenience, too. But the LBS gets this all mixed up with their own neediness and thinks the WAS is showing some kind of "sign" or baby steps. Nothing could be further from the truth. Oh, and let's not forget my favorite one.........how the LBS thinks being the WAS's best friend will win them back. When the LBS is the man, I see very little chance with that move. There could be a little more leverage if the WAS is male.......b/c of how the two sexes are wired (and I don't mean sexually). But it all come down to the same cake eating. As long as they can eat cake, why should anything change? They get the best of both worlds. What could be better?

The WAS usually has to experience some type of "loss" that shakes them to their very core before they reverse their direction and start coming out of the fog or their waywardness. As long as the LBS is reassuring the WAS that they have lost nothing and will lose nothing regardless of their actions.......why on earth do you think they would change their minds? B/c they love you? Nope! B/c you love them? Hell no! B/c you are so good and faithful? Again, no! So stop with all the proclaiming and professing.......b/c in the eyes of the WAS, it just makes you look foolish. Frankly, they become even less interested and feel more turned off than ever.

The WAS should be concerned that they could be replaced and you will find somebody else. They should be concerned that their terrible actions has killed your love. They should be womdering what you are going to do! They should miss out on family times. They should get a taste of life without you. Isn't that what they wanted? They should not get to keep your friendship. Being a BFF is not a consolation prize.

Most of the posts I have read over the years clearly show the LBS has no clue as to how the WAS thinks. It is usually completely opposite from what the LBS thinks it is. They don't walk away (emotionally or physically) b/c they want you to prove your love, do more domestic chores, help with the kids more, or like their family better, whatever. Those things may have been an issue at some time during the M, but let me make this clear.........the actions it once would have taken for you to get the MR back on track won't work at this point. Why? B/c now it's complicated. You are no longer M to the same person. They have changed. They think differently, and more importantly, they see YOU differently.....and it ain't good. So what you might have done during the time they "wanted" it ......won't work now. They no longer want it. They no longer care.

One last word, the WAS doesn't want to hear any of it. That's why talking doesn't work at this time. None of it works until they are remorseful for their waywardness, and willing & ready to commit to the M and do whatever necessary to succeed. Then when piecing begins, you can have the R talks and do all these other things you thought would work, and didn't. It is all about timing. Doing what works is all about the timing.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2501274 10/27/14 11:34 PM
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Thanks, Sandi, I needed that. I had started to forget my mission.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Maybell #2501278 10/27/14 11:48 PM
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I think that is the most amazing post I have ever read on here. Thank you Sandi!

LisaB #2501281 10/28/14 12:08 AM
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Awesome post Sandi, and I wish I'd seen it about an hour ago. So the nausea I felt this morning that I thought was anxiety about WAS? Food poisoning. Been in bed since noon. WAW graciously brought a great anti-nausea pill over about 1/2 hour ago. I didn't ask her to, but I accepted the invite (I really wanted those pills...). All would have been fine, but I told her she is a really good friend. After reading this....WHOOPS. I will learn from it.

I'm with Lisa's post...I now understand why it's important to do this, but I don't know how to make it work. Obviously I'm not actually going to date. Apparently I was keeping her on her toes with mysterious behavior, but I squashed it by directly saying "of course Im not dating" and "I feel it's very disrespectful to date others while M". At this point, I feel like I would be a hypocrite if I hinted that I was dating or thinking about it. If the next R talk happens, should I just say that she is going to lose a very good H? That doesn't seem to jive with what you just said, Sandi. I think I'm a smart guy but I have not been too sharp when it comes to what to say to WAW. You're right, LBS's DON'T know what they're thinking.

She is definitely friendzoning me. Maybe I could play off of the biggest fear she told me about right after BD: that we would be like her parents, unwilling to be around each other. How would I do that?

Btw, she did get to see a hard side of me not being there tonight. D2 found out I was sick and has been crying hysterically ever since


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
Card29 #2501282 10/28/14 12:13 AM
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Just don't engage in R talk. If she tries to start one just politely say "I'm not prepared to have this conversation right now."

And feel better. Food poisoning, yikes!

Last edited by Maybell; 10/28/14 12:14 AM.

Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Card29 #2501285 10/28/14 12:17 AM
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She also has outwardly encouraged me to date on a couple of occasions. I wonder if she is trying to remove some of the blame of the S from herself and put it on me? At BD, she asked "do you want me to move out?" A few days later she told me she intended to, so I think the first question was an attempt to make the S my idea.

Maybe it's time for boundaries? I have been extremely flexible with her. We have two dogs that I have had 95% of the time since S. She gets them for a day or two when her schedule is open and she feels like it. Maybe I need to say we need to split the dogs equally and give her a taste of the daily struggle to walk them multiple times, feed them, clean them.

I am just struggling with what to do next after I've made it clear how I feel about dating during M and the fact that she has encouraged it. Maybe I just need to be more mysterious again. That worked before. I also left a bit of mystery in one of our "dating" convos when I said "no I'm not dating but I don't think I'd tell if you if I was"


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
Card29 #2501289 10/28/14 12:50 AM
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Hey Card, feel better! Yuck!

I say don't worry too much about the dating question at this point. Just go mysterious and if it ever comes up again use Maybell's line, that is perfect. It is basically what I said to my WAH when he asked if I was dating (he is openly) "I don't want to talk about my dating, I don't think it is something we need to discuss." So he assumes I am dating but I never said I was or wasn't. If he will admit to being upset that I am dating then maybe we could have a talk and take it from there. But he won't admit he doesn't like it because he wants to date!

Sandi's post was so spot on for me. I've been thinking about it for an hour. And dammit I wish I saw it this morning before I went to lunch with WAH and we made weekend plans and I was very friendly with him! Now figuring out how to use this as an opportunity to be more mysterious...

Card, that is the key. Exactly what Sandi says is SO TRUE. The WAS doesn't feel the same way, they see us as completely uninteresting and unattractive. Like a friend, but worse, a sometimes irritating friend who gets needy and emotional and makes them feel guilty. haha. We have to do our best to shake them out of their fog of indifference and also have the patience to simply wait it out while being super independent.

On that note, I would say you should think about making the dogs more a responsibility for your W. Don't do it just to piss her off but think about what is fair. If it is fair that she shares responsibility then discuss it with her. or if you don't mind the status quo with the dogs then just deal with it for now.

As a man it is important that you seem confident and strong to your WAW. Don't be a jerk but don't be weak either.

Feel better! Hugs, Lisa

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