Ugh. I know... or wait to see if I get to see her next weekend... I gotta ask, I think. Not that I expect to believe his answer fully.
Spoke to H tonight after he landed. We will meet at the pumpkin patch in the morning and then he will take the kids to his Mom's for the weekend and then he will bring them back and go do the pictures with the kids on Sunday afternoon and then go back to his Mom's overnight and come the next morning to get the kids to school and go meet to have coffee with his Dad.
Going back and forth to his Mom's takes an hour each way and that frustrates me from a financial standpoint. Winters are always tough in his business and I am scared about where that will leave us (not H) this winter with his other "priorities". He told me that he is not worried about it and that "I haven't been for a couple of years"... so not true, apparently he forgot last winter already.
I talked more than I should but did as much as I could with grace. There was a point of contention when he told me that he was planning on letting S8 ride in the front seat of his rental car. Technically, he is old enough in our state but realistically, he is very small (in the 3rd percentile for his age) and I am concerned that he could be hurt more in an accident in the front seat. I've always been sort of a car-seat nazi, making sure they are safe is my #1 priority. I told him that that will not fly and suggested we just trade cars for the weekend, he balked at that because I'm not on the rental agreement and what if I get in an accident? I told him that I was just not willing to budge on the safety of our kids. He then stated he would see if the seats could fit in the back and, if not, he would trade cars. I wish that didn't come up as an issue because it showed more of the old side of me that he does not like but I had to weigh that against my concerns about safety and the mama bear in me won. Oh well, hopefully I can show more grace tomorrow and the rest of the weekend.
S8 told me tonight that if Daddy did not want me to go with them he did not want to go with Daddy. I told him he could not do that as it would hurt Daddy's feelings and he needs to spend time with Daddy. I told H that we needed to sit down and have "the talk" with the kids because it was confusing for them, I am sweeping everything under the rug for the little ones but they see things too and that he needs to talk to them about it with me there. I plan to let him take the lead on this, with us discussing it beforehand so that he doesn't say things like "WE decided we don't want to be married anymore" when that is not true so that I don't jump in and say "No, YOU decided you don't want to be married any more, Mommy still wants to be". Not good for the kids so we need to come up with another way to explain it where I don't take on the blame for the D and they aren't damaged by an argument about it. I also said that we need to get this talk done so that S8 can no longer try to play us against each other, he needs to know that he will have visitation with his Dad and I need to know that he will go so that I can, one day, get a life of my own. H agreed.
I asked him about when he would be coming back to town again. He said he didn't know... lie! Maybe he IS just taking OW to San Fran for the weekend and not seeing the kids after all. Sort of a crappy move but better than trying to introduce OW to my kids at this early stage. I guess we will see what/if/when he says this weekend.
Me- 40 H- 41 S8, D5, S4 M 19 y T 23 Bomb drop 6/2013 H asked for/filed for D 9/2014 22 yo OW discovered 9/19/14 they're engaged and living together
Ever heard of the saying.....never ask a question that you do not want the answer to?
What do you think asking says about YOU?
What does the word detachment mean to YOU?
FTR, I am not saying ask or not....
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Ever heard of the saying.....never ask a question that you do not want the answer to?
I think knowing the answer to the question as to whether the OW is pregnant is pretty darned important:
1) It may influence your willingness to stand. For some people that's a dealbreaker, for others it's not. But if it's a dealbreaker for you, better to know now and incorporate that into your plans re: separation or divorce
2) Tactically it may affect how you see h's behavior or how you approach him on certain things.
3) Just asking may put a seed of doubt into H's mind about the wisdom of his current path (i.e. if he ran away from home to avoid responsibility, he may not have thought about the possibility of OW saddling him with NEW responsibilities just like his old ones).
I think knowing the answer to the question as to whether the OW is pregnant is pretty darned important:
Not disagreeing - just giving another perspective ....
a) You ask, he lies - you find out later.
b) You ask, he tells you none of your business - you find out later.
c) You ask - he says no - how does that make you look/feel
d) You ask, he tells you yes...she ends up losing the baby later.
I guess my point is, I am not saying NOT to ask, I am saying understand why you are asking and accept that at the end of the day, he may lie and you may never know it until later.
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It may influence your willingness to stand. For some people that's a dealbreaker, for others it's not. But if it's a dealbreaker for you, better to know now and incorporate that into your plans re: separation or divorce
I agree that it MAY impact your willingness to stand. I get that. In term of how to incorporate that into your plans re: separation or divorce - Me I would plan for the worse and hope for the best. In all cases, protect YOURSELF.
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Tactically it may affect how you see h's behavior or how you approach him on certain things.
If I understand the sitch....he already is living with OW - I believe that how you approach him is the same - living with, dating, sleeping with, etc. That is just my opinion. I am not saying I am right.
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Just asking may put a seed of doubt into H's mind about the wisdom of his current path (i.e. if he ran away from home to avoid responsibility, he may not have thought about the possibility of OW saddling him with NEW responsibilities just like his old ones).
As much as I can see this point on some level....I am not sure that the LBS has much say in the MLCer coming out of the crisis.
IMO, you should make choices YOU want for YOU NOT as a result of HIS choices or his answers. That just my 2 cents.
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
So, to follow up... I DID ask and H says No, she is not pregnant. Eric, you are right, I have no idea if he is telling me the truth or not. Not sure what it says about me... maybe that I'm scared that he if he gets OW pregnant that our kids will feel as if he has started a new, better (from their perception based on time spent) life there? My pastor pointed out today that, in all likelihood, with her age, she likely does want to have kids so this could very well be an issue I have to deal with in the next few years anyway.
Had a nice time together at the pumpkin patch. I was hurt when he revealed his T-shirt that showed that he had visited Washington DC (where we had always planned to go) and he told me that they went there together. I had to walk away for a minute and apologized to him for doing that but explained that it hurt that she is replacing me on all our old hopes and dreams. The rest of the day went fine and we even went out to dinner as a family together.
So, here's where I'm likely going to get flames... I know, I know, I'm ready for them.
Sunday afternoon he brought the kids to the house as he had agreed to come with me to get their pictures taken. I made the HUGE mistake of asking him about next weekends plans, which he had lied about on Friday and told him that I knew he was lying and that he needed to stop lying to me if we were ever going to be able to do the D and raising our kids amicably. I know, I shouldn't have done this, the reason I did was my real fear that he would introduce my kids to her behind my back (as they will be with HIS parent next weekend). He said he would never do that but he's lied so much I can't trust him.
I told him that since I cannot trust him on anything I certainly can't trust him on his financial offer. He starts telling me that unless I accept it, with no negotiation and no documentation of his finances, he will withdraw it and just let the courts decide (which he says will likely screw me some, but I don't know for sure without knowing the truth about his bank accounts). He started being so nasty that S8 jumped in and told him to stop making Mommy cry (I know, more flames for this happening in front of the kids. I'm already beating myself up about that.) Feeling like he was holding our only security over my head for an unreasonable request I was bawling. I told him that the only retaliation I had is our kids and that I would NEVER use them against him.
He kept threatening to leave and I reminded him that we were supposed to discuss a visitation schedule and taking the kids to his Mom's an hour away on school nights (which I don't want to make them get up so early, they already get up at 6:15) and he just began being unreasonable and acting like a defiant 5 year old. His eyes were so cold and uncaring.
He ended up leaving in a hurry. He took S8's booster seat in his hurry so I asked him to bring it back. He did and I apologized for my part in the fight and he said he forgave me. He feels like I am still trying to control him, I don't see it that way, I think I'm just trying to be smart, financially, and also do what's best for our kids.
Me- 40 H- 41 S8, D5, S4 M 19 y T 23 Bomb drop 6/2013 H asked for/filed for D 9/2014 22 yo OW discovered 9/19/14 they're engaged and living together
Yes, get a lawyer. Don't negotiate these things with him directly - he's trying to hide stuff and get an advantage over you by bullying you.
Get a lawyer, get serious about the financial stuff, and stop trying to get him to hang out with you. He's not at a point where he's going to suddenly "get it" and come home. Might happen someday, but not while you're still tugging on the rope. (Actually, sadly, it's more likely to happen once you've moved on and he's having to deal with the reality of you dating another man and his kids being parented by another man, but in the meantime, the more reality you can introduce into this fantasy life of his, the better.)
Ok, so a couple of things, I realize I cannot trust him financially. I *may* end up getting less by fighting him because I will, for sure, have to use up some of my savings to fight it. I do have a lawyer in PA and have hesitated to hire one in CA because it's a $5000 retainer and if the PA agreement is as good or better than I could get in CA (based on internet research and consultation, assuming his info is true) I don't want to waste $5k.
The issue being here is **IF**, I have no real idea how much he has made over this last year. I know last year because I have the 1099's (he's self employed) but he *says* this year is much less. The issue here is that I have no way of knowing what his 1099's are this year yet, of course AND the type of business he does he can very easily hide $ in either OW's account, cashing checks or by simply not collecting it from his subcontractors yet. I *could* hire a forensic accountant but that would cost $5-$10k to maybe find nothing, he works from yellow manila files and it is very easy to simply hide some of them.
So, my point being, since it is so easy for him to hide $ and I can't really afford to spend $10k of the savings I have when I need to protect my kids financial future, do I risk it?
Not to get too personal, but here's what he's offering, based on $180k gross income (he says, last year was $250k): Child support $4050/mo until age 18 Spousal Support $3500/mo for 6 years (this I want to negotiate, in CA it would likely be 10 years to life based on need and 19 years married) He pays all life insurance policies $230/mo He pays all kids private school, now $850/mo will be $1500 in 2 years Retirement plan for me $500/mo for length of spousal support He keeps all personal property in PA I keep all personal property in CA (better for me I think) He keeps all his bank accounts (and WILL NOT disclose values of past or present) I keep all joint accounts (which he knows about fully, worth about $8k total) I keep my $19k in savings from insurance business he had me close last year He keeps Lincoln Navigator, valued at $14k He keeps F150 valued at $8400 He keeps all value of his business (which is VERY unknown, it is based solely on his efforts, construction consulting) We each keep our credit card debts (minimal) He pays all his 2013 tax liability plus old taxes he owes from prior business He pays me $23k to pay my part of 2013 income taxes, we file married filing separately I keep Buick, owing $25k on it, I pay for this myself
I know this is a lot of very personal information and maybe that is frowned upon but I want you all to know why I am so torn. Parts of this are VERY generous and parts, not so much. The 2 lawyers I have talked to and his are all saying this is a way better deal than I would get on my own ASSUMING what he is saying is true. The biggest issue I has is that IF and the length of spousal support, my youngest would be 9 when it ran out.
And, KML, you are so right, I need to stop getting him to hang out with me and COMPLETELY detach. STAT!
Me- 40 H- 41 S8, D5, S4 M 19 y T 23 Bomb drop 6/2013 H asked for/filed for D 9/2014 22 yo OW discovered 9/19/14 they're engaged and living together
From where I stand, fthnluv, your are fortunate indeed. Run with it...And if some small parts of it are questionable to you, it seems the other more generous parts will make up for those...
Me 53, XH 57 M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids BD June '13 H moved out July '13 Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14 H filed for D Nov. '14 D March '15
