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Hi Jim

reads well to me.


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
W coming closer, talking 4/2015
Piecing 5/2015
Moving in again 6/2015
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Post 2 – Boundary Time

- I will not discuss any aspect of the separation and divorce settlement in front of the children. If my W tries to discuss this I will state my position and ask her to wait until an acceptable time. If she continues to persist then I will politely tell her that I will not discuss it any further.

- I will ask her to transfer me the money for half of the household bills and to make arrangements to do so each month she remains in the property

- When i dealing with any child related difficulties (refusal to eat etc.) I will politely ask her to refrain from interfering. Equally when she tries to override or correct me then i will ask her to not do that. I will extend the same courtesy to her which includes not stepping in when she is unable to control the children until such time as she requests my assistance.

- If my W threatens legal action or makes another threat in relation to the children then I will tell her that that is unacceptable and i will end the conversation until such time as she has calmed down.

- If i notice my wife disrespecting me I will call her out on this firmly and politely.

- I will not ‘hope she has a good evening’ when I know full well she is going out to engage in behaviour which I find unacceptable in a marriage (sleeping around). Its best i say nothing.

If anything else springs to mind that i’ve missed please or if these aren't right let me know.


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
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jim... No letters or speeches, okay? (If that's what the writing was about... what you would say/not say.)

She's not going to hear anything but "blah..blah...blah... you're WRONG...blah, blah, YOU MESSED UP... blah...blah... Here's what I think....blah....blah.. I know better than you...."

Not that it's what you're trying to say, but very likely how she will interpret it.

I'd just leave it alone for now. No need to explain anything.

She has stated her position and you are going to now live your life as a reflection of that.

The more you talk about how you feel and what your position is, the less she will hear anything you say. Instead, it will only annoy her.

Trust me.

The LESS you say, the more she'll notice, especially if you let your actions do the talking for you.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

All the above stuff ^^^ about your boundaries sounds really good.

You're not telling her what to do, you're just showing her that you are going to make your choices too, based on what's best for you and your children.
I think laying it on the line about the expenses is quite fair.

If she doesn't like it, too bad.

Nothing you've stated above is unreasonable in the least.
(And even if she doesn't tell you so, she probably knows this as well.)

Be polite, but firm. Refuse to engage with her, especially in front of the kiddos, and keep on with your Rhett Butler BAD self! smile

Be prepared for some backlash though.
They don't like it when we behave reasonably and calmly because they don't expect it.

They are expecting drama, and want to accumulate lots of ammunition from our behavior that they can use against us.

"See? I KNEW he/she was crazy/cold/selfish/lazy/sloppy/useless/angry..."

Don't give her any ammo to use against you.
When in doubt, say nothing.
Come here and post and see what is recommended as a next step.

They also hate it when we start to move forward with our lives based on what they have said they want. So again, be prepared for some nastiness to come your way because of your GAL activities and not making her the center of your universe.

When that spew comes, and it probably will, just let it roll off. Let HER act like the crazy, angry one. You just just "kill her with kindness" as they say.

It's hard to be angry with someone who doesn't engage; who is calm and fearless. Think of Ghandi.

How long could you scream at a Tibetan Monk deep in meditation before you get so bored you just hike on down the mountain?

I rest my case.



---(G)GGG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



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Well done! Did it feel good to put that all in writing? Did it clarify a few things for yourself? Perhaps you have a new perspective on your W's behavior? Does it change your view of a reconciliation?

Now, knowing you can never send her theses letters nor tell her in person, speak with your actions. You say you don't give a damn, that it's for her to deal with her guilt, that you'll act in the best interest of the kids, that you will no longer be emasculated, that you'll work on yourself... DO IT!


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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It's good that you wrote out these points. Having them in your mind will help prevent being caught off guard. Knowing now what your plan is if she does something out of line will help you enforce it. It wouldn't hurt to have a plan for what you would do if asking her politely doesn't work. wink

Remember, being assertive is not a negative trait. I couldn't help but smile when I saw how many times you inserted the word "polite" when writing out your boundaries. Maybe you need to try and lose that word for a while. When you are dealing face to face with a wayward woman, you have to get her attention through firmness. She has to see you are serious and mean business. Yes, be nice/polite if it works, otherwise......

I'm just trying to get you to toughen up. I'm really not trying to turn you into a mean person. It won't feel exactly comfortable the first time or two you put this into practice, but I think getting your masculinity back will feel very good.

The things you described in your angry post about your passive-aggressiveness......seem to fit with what's going on. You take & take until when you do release something, it comes out snarky and weak. That isn't attractive in men or women. You have tried to get along with people by being polite and avoiding any possible conflict with them. That may work up to a point, but certain roles we have in life and/or the people we deal with on a daily bases will at some point put us to a test. I wish human beings weren't that way, but most are. Bosses, co-workers, in-laws, spouses, kids, friends, you name it.
You don't have to go looking for a fight, just don't fear the threat of one.

What can you do that would be a way of working off some of your pent up anger or anxiety? Some guys have a punching bag hanging in the garage b/c it gives them something solid to actually hit and work out the frustrations of the day.

It's good when you let off steam in a post to do like you did in yours and tell us at the beginning that's what you're doing.

I have a good feeling about you, Jim. You are still young enough to turn yourself around.






It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks all.

Yes fear not I have no intention of saying any of that to her unless it comes up as part of enforcing boundaries. It felt good to get it out and it actually felt even better when I rewrote it. Something twigged I guess - she denies the A (I have proof) but actually at the end of this its her conscience that has to live with the truth.

My default plan is that if she encroaches my boundaries I will tell her and if she continues I will tell her that the conversation is over and walk away.

It worked already this evening. W asked about my mortgage appt.
M: I'm not discussing this now.
W: when the kids are in bed?
M: of course.
(Pause)
W: is there a problem?
M: I'm not discussing this now

Not great but a simple start.

Because of the nice guy stuff when I'm firm I tend to be mean because its repressed anger - so the politeness is about finding a balance until I get more comfortable with thus.

I tend to take my anger out on a squash court so that helps (playing tonight)

I don't feel that young.


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D paperwork in progress
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Good start!


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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OK things got nasty quickly. Way quicker and way nastier than I thought.

Went to discuss it. Rough summary is that I explained what has happened and she said there was no need to grumpy. I said I'm not being grumpy I'm just not discussing it in front of the kids.

She changed the subject to wanting me home by 1630 so she could go out. I said id be home when i finished work. she started getting aggressive - Saying lots of stuff about our agreement. I said that isn't what the agreement says and repeated that I will be home when I finish work.

She continued. I said I'm not discussing it any further while you are in this mood and left the room. She followed me having a go. I reiterated that I'm not talking about it now. She started sneering and threatening ('I'll remember this'). I said I'm not prepared to discuss any if this while she is sneering at me. She carried on and so I said I will go upstairs until you have calmed down. She was having a go the whole time I walked away.


Is that right? Or am I way off? Does my tone matter?

Last edited by jim0987; 10/30/14 07:23 PM.

Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
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D paperwork in progress
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Wowza. W started again this time trying to take the high ground of how rude I was.

This could be rough for a while.

My concern is that this will make the divorce very fractious rather than help with the M


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Yes, of course your tone of voice matters. And Jim, she has ruled the roost for a very long time. She is not going to give that up easily.

Quote:
Rough summary is that I explained what has happened and she said there was no need to grumpy.


Maybe in your resolve to be more assertive, your tone was strange to her ears? Were you sounding grumpy, or were you just stating facts in a serious fashion?

Quote:
I said I'm not being grumpy I'm just not discussing it in front of the kids.


I don't understand this. I thought you went to discuss it and she said you were grumpy? Did the kids go into the room while the discussion was going on?

Quote:
She changed the subject to wanting me home by 1630 so she could go out. I said id be home when i finished work. she started getting aggressive - Saying lots of stuff about our agreement. I said that isn't what the agreement says and repeated that I will be home when I finish work.


That's okay. She doesn't like it when she doesn't get to call the shots. She can get over it.

Quote:
She continued. I said I'm not discussing it any further while you are in this mood and left the room. She followed me having a go. I reiterated that I'm not talking about it now. She started sneering and threatening ('I'll remember this'). I said I'm not prepared to discuss any if this while she is sneering at me. "I've given you my answer and your sneering and threats will not change it." She carried on and so I said I will go upstairs until you have calmed down. She was having a go the whole time I walked away.


You did pretty good there. You are just getting started and learning. In the future, you may avoid appearing as if you are running away from her while she's badgering you. Turn and walk up and get nose to nose with her (if necessary) and tell her that her threats are useless in changing your answer. Then you can turn and walk away, but don't announce you are going somewhere until she calms down. Let her figure it out. She'll get the idea.

Expect her to put up resistance. You've been her cat to kick around for a long time. Just don't let things get physical. Leave the house if heads that direction.



It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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